Return to India: Why We Chose India After 10 Years in the US | Meta Engineering Leader

0:00 Foreign.

0:11 Hi, everyone. Welcome to a brand new episode of Quietly Ambitious. So we will talk about tech careers in India. So the average span a person spends as a techie in India is around five years. The attention span to basically pick up new skills or to learn skills has been going down. And yet some people are able to evolve across multiple phases of their life, be it, be it in their career, moving countries, moving from different roles within an organization.

0:39 My guest today is Ms. Diksha Vanwari. She spent a decade at Meta. She, what excited me the most about her journey is but she built a career alongside life where, you know, she moved from us to India, she moved, she changed her role from an individual contributor to a manager. She, she also, she also became a mother. So we are going to understand her story about how she managed it all. So, Diksha, thanks a lot for being a part of our podcast today.

1:07 Thank you for having me.

1:09 Obviously, we've known each other for almost a year now. Our kids are in the same school. So when I thought of Quietly AM Dishes, the first guest who came to my mind was Diksha. So I'm very happy that it's finally happening. So we will talk about your journey at Meta in the later segment of our podcast. But I would want to understand you the from you that when you started working, what did career, you know, what did a successful career seem to you or, you know, what did it mean to you at that point of time?

1:39 So I started my career when I turned 21, right? That's when I graduated from an engineering school in India at 21. I didn't really have a very sophisticated definition of a successful career. I come from business, family. And all I knew at the time was I wanted to build an independent stream of income that was separate from that family, business. Right? Independence was something that really mattered to me at the time. So like, you know, most engineering students in India, I took up an IT job and I stayed in IT for a good three years.

2:15 At that point, my husband, then boyfriend, now husband, wanted to pursue a master's degree in the U.S. he wanted to advance his career. He was, you know, very, very motivated to get that degree at that point. And in the process, he also convinced me, you know, go along with him and get this degree. At that point, I had no idea that getting that master's degree would change my life in the ways that it did. It exposed me to opportunities that I did not have in India.

2:42 You know, I got my master's from Columbia in New York and ended up interning at Google, got my first, you know, full time role at Meta, right after that. These are companies I'd not even dreamed of working at, you know, when I just started my career in India. But what that also meant was there came a major imposter syndrome with working at these companies because you know, I always felt like I did not belong here. I cheated my way to this place almost.

3:10 And so I think I was extremely hard on myself is what I'd say. Initially I wanted to work too hard to prove that I belonged there. And, and also what happened in the process was I, I used my so little bit of background at Meta. They, they do these six monthly performance reviews. I attached my self worth to the outcome that I was getting from these performance reviews every single time. Right. So I didn't really leave my student mindset behind.

3:40 Every performance review almost felt like an exam and in my head I had to ace the exam.

3:45 Right.

3:45 So it my all also because I really needed to prove to myself that I belonged at Meta. So I think that was what you know, initially success meant. Right. Proving that I belonged there. Getting a good outcome in my performance evaluations with no long term view of where I wanted to take this. Right. So that's why I said no sophisticated definition of success. Just make enough money so I am able to afford a comfortable life, you know, start a family eventually and then just prove to myself that I belong here.

4:14 That is, you know how I thought about it. Of course I've been in the industry for close to 15 years now and that thinking has shifted majorly. I'm sure we'll talk about it, but that's, that's kind of how I started.

4:24 Thanks a lot for answering that question. And which also I have a counter like I have a follow up question here regarding you mentioning that imposter syndrome. So why did you feel that way? Is this something I would want to understand?

4:37 Sure. So I grew up in Pune. I was born and raised in Pune. And you know, close to when I think kids are 13, 14, when you're in the 8th, 9th grade, a lot of kids in my class started discussing whether they wanted to go to the IITs or the NITs. Right. Again, having come from a family business background myself, I don't think education was really the biggest topic of discussion growing up. I don't think it was not important.

5:06 But you know, chasing an IIT or an NIT dream wasn't the topic of conversation at home. Yeah. So in some ways, you know, I was quite distant from that dream. Growing up I took up engineering at the time without being 100% convinced that this was the right thing for me to do. Honestly, you know, back in the ninth grade, I used to dream about becoming a doctor. My father saw a dream for me which involved me becoming an IAS officer.

5:28 And I ultimately ended up choosing, you know, the engineering path. So, you know, it was total chaos at the time. There wasn't really a set path. The college that I graduated from, you know, where I got my engineering degree, wasn't a well known college. Right. Like, campus placements weren't exactly exciting because the kind of jobs you got right after weren't, you know, it wasn't a job that I was most proud of even after having gotten it.

5:50 So, you know, school, junior college, I was a topper. I aced, you know, all of my exams. I was that nerd from class. But that kind of changed during my engineering days. Right. And that's when I felt like, you know, I maybe wasn't the brightest mind. I didn't belong in the best rooms, you know, I didn't deserve to be in the best company. That's where I took up this first role. Stayed in it for three years and kind of lost myself also, you can say for, for, for a good span of about 7 to 8 years still.

6:19 I got that master's degree and was again, you know, starting to work at Meta. Kind of changed that in a big way. So you asked why Imposter syndrome. Right. I genuinely, truly believed that I did not belong there because I found, or I rather believed that everyone around me was way smarter than. So now I believe I, I, I belong here. But it's been a long journey getting to this point where, you know, imposter syndrome doesn't bother me as much as it did in my earlier days.

6:45 So first of all, thanks for being so frank with us and letting our viewers know about, you know, how you felt. But I would just want to say that I've known Diksha for one year and I think she's just undervaluing herself by putting these words because she's now a manager at Meta. And I'm sure that's not an easy, you know, easy title to achieve. And which brings me to my next question. Now, Diksha, you been with, you know, with one organization for nearly a decade.

7:13 So how did, how has that journey been like and how have you progressed? Because you moved roles. You, in fact, you moved countries as well. Right. Which we will come to later. But can we talk about your experience at your current organization and you know, an experience of a decade sure.

7:30 So, yes, I've been at Meta close to a decade. It'll be 10 years in about a year. I started out as an individual contributor. Right. I was fresh out of grad school, so I took up an entry level position at Meta about nine and a half years ago. And from there I. The question was, you know, how has the journey been and how have I kept it exciting for myself? You know, despite having been here this long, the scope of what I've worked on has shifted drastically.

7:58 Right. As I've grown in level. So, you know, as an entry level engineer, you're expected to tackle maybe tasks as you grow, you're working on features, then as a more senior person, maybe projects. At my current level, you know, I'm held accountable for an entire problem space, driving a strategy for it, overseeing execution, helping people grow. So, you know, the remit or scope of what I work on has changed drastically in the last nine years, which has kept things very, very exciting.

8:26 Right. Because every time I'm faced with a problem that's slightly bigger than what I could tackle in the past, it also means that now I have to stretch myself and maybe pick up a skill or two that I didn't have before.

8:36 Yeah.

8:37 What has also happened is that every two to three years I have been intentional about picking a team or a problem space that, you know, I feel very passionately about. So while I've been in the same company, you know, switching problem areas as well as growing in scope has allowed me to, you know, keep work exciting and, you know, feel passionately about it. Yeah.

8:58 So thanks a lot for sharing perspective there, Diksha. Now you've touched a very important point, you know, from when you move from an individual contributor role to a manager role. So what changes did you observe and how did you cope up with a new role which was coming your way?

9:14 I think the change was pretty significant. When you go from being an IC to being a manager without any formal training. It's not like I stopped working at Meta and, you know, went to a business school to understand what it takes to be a good manager. It just happened overnight. A business need arose on the team that I was on and they just told me that we're trusting you with this transition. And from that point on, I pretty much had to figure it out by myself.

9:40 You know, I had mentors and coaches and my own manager to guide me through it, but there was no formal education or training as such that was involved. I think most people in tech, right, who make this transition end up making this mistake. At least I did. I know I didn't let go of the tech lead mentality overnight. It's very difficult to detach yourself from that mentality. Right. You're very, very tied to the projects that you're working on.

10:03 You're used to, you know, being deep into the technical details. You're not really thinking about people as much. Right. Sure, you're collaborating with others as a tech lead, you care about, you know, being respectful in your collaboration, but growing and creating opportunities for others is not top of mind as an individual contributor. Yeah, so that was kind of the shift that I had to undergo. Right. Think about people, you know, just as much as I was thinking about the business outcomes that my team was going to produce, creating opportunities for them, creating an environment in my team where people felt that they could thrive.

10:37 Because ultimately if you're not able to build a strong team, there's only so much that you can achieve as one person. So, you know, team became the focus of what I was building. A strong team became the focus of what I was working towards. So, yeah, I'd say it did take a bit of time, I'd say six months to about a year to fully shed the tech lead mentality and embrace that of a manager. Having said that, though, given the world that we are in, where AI is changing the definition of all of our roles, it is required of engineering managers to again be hands on and familiarize themselves with the latest and greatest in tech so that we can guide and set up our teams in the best way.

11:21 So I do feel like I'm going back to being more hands on than I was in the past couple of years. But that mentality around people being the focus has not really changed.

11:33 So, yeah, it's a very, you know, that's a very, I would want to say that, very insightful. The answer was definitely very insightful. But I think a large part of being a manager is also delegation of your work, I think. Which individual contributors, you know, when you move to a role like a managerial role, that's what the, what I've heard about is the most, most problematic thing people have. So how did you deal with that? Like, because you had to delegate a lot of the work to the team.

12:00 It was the consistent feedback that I got on my reviews for about two cycles in a row. I remember where they asked me to, you know, delegate more. Yeah, because they kept reminding me, you know, while you're doing a good job at whatever you're doing, you'll burn yourself out if you don't Delegate more. And I think I kind of touched upon it by saying, creating opportunities for others. Right. And that only happens when you start trusting and delegating your responsibility to others.

12:26 So, yeah, it. It didn't come overnight. I. I am a bit of a control freak myself and like to be extremely involved in everything that I am doing. So letting go of that part of my personality wasn't the easiest thing for me to do, but I realized that, you know, it was what was required to run a healthy team. Yeah. So it did take a lot of coaching and mentorship from my then managers, who I'm very, very grateful for.

12:49 I also took up, you know, mentorship sessions with several, you know, senior leaders in the company and made this transition. Right. What helped me during that time was, you know, just realizing that I wasn't al in facing whatever I was, because like I said, most people who transition from IC to manager will go through this phase. And I'm glad, you know, my team and my leadership just trusted me and gave me that kind of space that allowed me to make the transition successful.

13:16 Makes a lot of sense because we've also had another guest who spoke about the same problem, and she said that that was the key of, you know, that is the main aspect of being a manager, that you need to delegate and be okay with it. So let's talk about your move from US to India. It's not an easy move, definitely. And, you know, a lot of people wouldn't even want to do that, but can we talk about that?

13:41 You know, how did that feel? What made you take. You were a young mother, so, I mean, what. What were some of the key factors which you considered while making that move?

13:50 I think the reasons for our move were deeply, deeply personal. Right. I. I'm glad that I got the professional opportunity that enabled the move, but it was a very personal move, I would say.

14:03 Yeah.

14:03 And there's a couple of different reasons. Right. The top one was, and I think this is the reason most folks come back to India, which was being closer to our family. Both my husband and I, we grew up extremely close to our parents, to our extended families, and I think it, you know, in a major way, shaped the individuals that we are today.

14:22 Yeah.

14:22 And just letting go of that, you know, you have to, because in the US it's not as easy to, you know, see your parents for at least extended periods of time every year. So that was something that we weren't okay with.

14:35 Yeah.

14:35 I mean, one might argue you're able to make trips, they're able to make trips. But let's face it, they were getting older, right? Spending longer periods of time in the US Wasn't practical. Also, for when we visited, the trips were rather short. Two to three weeks at most, four at a time. And every time we left, we always felt, you know, gosh, and I wish there was more time that we could spend together. We were there for the big moments, but we wish, you know, we could be there for the smaller ones too.

14:58 So that was always a feeling that, that, you know, we felt. The second big reason, I would say, so this was more about my husband and me. Right then Kabir came into the picture. Our son, who's now three and a half years old. We wanted that same setup for him growing up, right? Of course, we can't offer him the joint family setup that like I had when I was growing up. But at least being in India would, you know, make it possible for him to see his cousins, his grandparents, his family growing up a lot more than he would if we were in the US like, you know, we've been here a year.

15:28 Think I've made four trips to Pune already, right? My parents and my in laws have made a couple of trips to Bangalore already. That was simply not possible in the US So we deeply cared about, you know, Kabir being connected to his extended family. So much so that Hindi was the first language he picked up, despite us being in the U.S. in fact, when we came to India, most kids around him were, you know, speaking very fluent English.

15:51 But, you know, Kabir could only speak in Hindi at the time. And something I'm, you know, genuinely proud of because we cared about him being able to communicate with his extended family and grandparents. Another reason would be immigration, and that's a big one on every NRI's month right now. We weren't hit by it in any major way. Both my husband and I were on H1B visas. We didn't run into any issues with lottery or anything like that.

16:17 But there were times, especially after Covid, where there were extended wait times for visa appointments where we couldn't be there to celebrate with family. Right? So many of my cousins got married during that time and I couldn't make it because a visa slot wasn't available. Right? Coming to India would mean there was no certainty on when you'd be able to go back. Similarly, there were times we couldn't mourn with our family because of the same constraint.

16:39 And that kind of uncertainty, you know, started making us extremely uneasy. You know, tomorrow, what if something were to happen to Someone who was closer to us and we couldn't be there because of this was a question that, you know, kept both KP and I, kp, my husband, both of us up at night a lot towards the end of our journey in the U.S. ultimately, I would say the final trigger was, let's say anything went wrong, you know, be it a visa issue or we had a bad day at work or whatever it was, you know, we both would sit down together at night and say to each other, if nothing else works out, we'll just go home.

17:13 And home here always meant India. You know, like, despite having lived 10 years in the US we weren't really able to fully embrace it as home. And having said that, I'm deeply grateful for everything the US gave us. But, you know, this is the truth, that home was always India. So, yeah, with that, you know, when the opportunity came along, we didn't even think twice. We just took the plunge and here we are and zero regrets whatsoever.

17:39 It also led us to you guys. Yeah, definitely.

17:43 I mean, I think we did enough convincing that, you know, infra. In India is such that you will be much more. Your life will be much more easier.

17:51 So.

17:51 Yeah, I mean, that's a very. I do have some tears in my eyes listening to that answer because I can relate to it because my family is also in the U.S. so, you know, I also keep thinking that my family member would also be going through the same field.

18:04 Right.

18:05 So let's talk about when you move to India. You know, how are you able to manage a full time job, in fact, a manager job at Meta, along with family, your son. And the other question would be how has the work infrastructure changed in.

18:21 Yeah. So how I'm handling it. Right. I think the way we started thinking about our family setup changed drastically since we moved to India. So I'll take a step back and first talk about, you know, how we approach life in the U.S. yeah. Both my husband and I, very, very driven at the time. Right. We were just optimizing for kind of the same metrics or outcomes in life, which was, you know, create more opportunities in career, grow quickly, you know, achieve financial independence very, very fast, and then maybe retire quickly.

18:53 Right. So that was the goal.

18:54 Yeah.

18:55 But what we realized was if we carried the same setup with us to India, there'd be very little point in actually making the move because India kind of offers you the type of liberty.

19:07 Yeah. To.

19:07 To, you know, follow your preferences in a way that the US did not allow us, especially because we were on visas.

19:13 Yeah.

19:14 So I'll explain this a bit more. Right. Kabir was growing up and as he was growing, we realized if anything he was only requiring our time and presence even more. Right. Like when he was an infant, it was okay. Leaving him with a nanny did not feel as bad. But now, you know, he was interacting. He was a, you know, growing, walking, talking human who needed his parents presence. And we weren't able to offer him as much of it as we would have liked in the US given both of us were in extremely demanding jobs.

19:42 Yeah.

19:43 So when we were moving to India, we intentionally chose to change that. Now between the two of us, I am the one who's professionally more ambitious. Right. We've always known that since the beginning. I have genuinely enjoyed dreaming big, you know, having career goals, crushing them and then setting next ones. So it's that, that's been my journey. Right. It's, it's, it's something that genuinely makes me happy. Yeah. My husband on the other hand, you know, especially after Kabir was born and we started approaching our mid-30s, he started caring about autonomy of, you know, time for that matter, flexibility in his work schedule a lot more.

20:18 He had a very successful corporate career himself in the U.S. but you know, after Kabir was born, he started realizing that he wasn't enjoying it as much as he was before he became a father. He wanted to make more of his time available for Kabir and for our family in general. So moving to India, what we did was I continued to pursue my career goals when kp, you know, took a step back from his corporate life and started pursuing, you know, stock trading full time.

20:44 Yeah.

20:44 It's something he had felt passionately about towards the end of our journey in the US anyway. So he was like, now is a great time. Right. The visa constraints didn't allow him to do it there, but now it was so much simpler. So what that did was, you know, give us a setup where each one of us was thriving in our own strengths. Right. I was getting to do my, you know, follow my career. He was getting to, you know, pursue his hand at being a stock trader as well as, you know, being a more available father.

21:11 Yeah.

21:12 So it was great for Kabir. It, you know, allowed us to set him up for success in India. The first couple of months were really hard. Right. I will not sugarcoat this in any way for anyone who's trying to make the move. The first couple of months were rough and if KP were in, you know, as hectic of a job that I was, we simply wouldn't have, you know, made it through. So looking back, I'm really grateful that we made this choice, that he made this choice and was able to do this for a family.

21:37 And ironically, if anything, it has allowed me to be even more ambitious than before. Right. Because previously I felt like every part of my life was competing with the other. But now there's just so much peace of mind knowing that KP is home. You know, with Kabir, if anything comes up, he has his father. And of course, you know, I try and make myself available as much as I can, but there's just so much more peace of mind today compared to, you know, what I had in the US So I feel like it's a more calm and balanced family life in India when compared to what we had.

22:08 Definitely. Yeah.

22:09 I think India has its own perks. And yes, you have more flexibility with family around. And plus, you can afford some resources

22:18 for the kid as well. Definitely. Yes. Yes.

22:21 So that was. Thank you for sharing your career so far and, you know, your journey with us. Diksha. Now, a very important aspect to the story is motherhood. So how has motherhood changed the way you look at your career now?

22:34 Transitioning into motherhood was, I think, the hardest thing I have ever had. You're a mom yourself, Right. Our kids are the same age. I'm sure you'll agree with that. It's been the hardest thing I've had to do. And balancing that and career at the same time just made it that much harder. I'll go back to my first year. Right. I think it still makes me deeply emotional when I think back on that first year. So I went back to work when around.

23:03 Kabir was about three and a half months old. Meta does offer a very generous policy, but I just thought that I was losing my mind staying home. I definitely had postpartum anxiety. Those first couple of months were really, really difficult. I just thought, you know, immersing myself into work again will be good for my mental health. So that's the choice I made because it seemed like the most rational decision at the time. What I didn't realize is, you know, when.

23:29 And I was already a manager at the time, so when you show up to work, you know, as a leader, there's people that are counting on you to make sound decisions, you know, to bring emotional stability to guide the team. I was running on two to three hours of sleep myself. Right. And I was anything but stable mentally. So it was. It was extremely, extremely challenging. Right. And that really made me pause and reflect that that if I want to do this for the longer run.

23:57 I need to think about how I'm going to approach both motherhood as well as my career. Yeah. Three things I would say shifted for me once I became a mother. The first one was I became more open to accepting help. I didn't do that a lot before. Right. It wasn't easy for me to ask for help even when I needed it. I mean, living in the U.S. you, you pretty much learn to, you know, live a very self sustained life.

24:22 You become very independent, you stop relying on people as much because that's not the kind of culture you have in the US So I'd grown very opposed to, you know, asking or even accepting help when it was being offered. But when Kabir was born, I realized that there was no way to do this alone. So both my mom and my husband's mom, you know, spent a significant amount of time, you know, with us in that first year, just helping us raise Kabir.

24:46 Without which I don't think I would have, have, you know, been able to survive that year. So that shifted. And you know, it's true, even today I don't say no to help when I'm being offered it. Especially with Kabir because I know one person like, even if I'm giving in my hundred percent every single day, that 100% is not going to be enough at both work and for Kabir because they're both demanding in their own ways.

25:09 Yeah.

25:09 So that was one. The second thing that shifted for me was how I started prioritizing everything. Before Kabir was born. I had the liberty of time. Right. I said yes to everything. I was very passionate about growing my career. Still am. But at that point it just meant that I would just say yes to anything that was thrown at me. But becoming a mother helps you realize that you're always going to be running short on time.

25:33 So if anything, I think it made me a more effective and efficient employee as well because I started prioritizing everything per a framework. So I said yes to the things that were important and not just what seemed urgent in that moment. So yeah, prioritization became a big thing in my life. And the last thing would be my relationship with perfectionism. I used to be that person, a control freak, somebody that wanted a perfect outcome on everything.

26:03 So much so that the bar I held for my own self in my mind was so high that I would go through several iterations of everything before it met my high standard and I could ship it. But then I realized that this was not scalable. After becoming a mother and in fact even also becoming a leader as you start supporting a team, there's just so many competing priorities at all time that achieving perfect is not always going to be possible.

26:27 And I started realizing good enough is actually good enough in most cases. So I had to step back from trying to achieve that almost impossible level of perfectionism in each of my tasks. So yeah, those are the three things that changed for me since becoming a mother.

26:47 I can totally relate to it because I'm a mother myself. But yeah, it seems to me that you're managing career and motherhood. These are two full time jobs which you have in mind. Right. So what do you think are some of the things which people are not aware about or basically feel like, okay, this is normal and you know, after being a mother, you've realized, no, it's not normal. I mean I personally, because I'm also a mom, I feel like we can do it all.

27:13 Like we multitask a lot and you know, we do a lot of things at once. But what are some things which you've come across, you know, of you being a mother, that when you realize, you know, people take it and that's not the case actually.

27:25 Yeah, yeah. I think a lot gets taken for granted. Right. It's just assumed she's a mom, she'll handle it all. Right. The husband's role is more thought of as he can help her out where it is required. But it's not really expected of him to show up in the same ways, you know, in the same capacity as a mom. I've been fortunate. That's not been the case with our family. You know, kp, if anything, has only challenged gender norms since the beginning of our relationship together, so been very, very fortunate in that sense.

27:58 But I think there are a couple of things that don't get spoken about enough. I'd say first is the amount of mental load you touched upon it. Right. You're just multitasking all the time.

28:06 All the time.

28:06 Again, before I, Kabir, I used to take pride and you know how sharp of a memory I had. I never made lists. I could remember everything. Right. And everything got executed perfectly at work and in life. Right. Nothing slipped since becoming a mom. I don't know, your brain chemistry switches or there's just so much to think about. Like, you know, when he was born, there's doctor's appointments, there's milestones, there's the diaper changes, there's the feeds, there's so much to keep track of.

28:31 And then there's an equal amount of things, if not more at work also. Right. That, that soon your brain is overflowing, you're overwhelmed. So I think that mental load is a big thing that doesn't get spoken about enough. What helped, I think in our situation was just looking to divide all responsibilities equally between the both of us. But even then we had to rely on lists. We had to make things more systematic. Otherwise things would just slip without us even realizing.

28:59 So that's the first one, the mental load. The second thing I think would be, I think the mother's guilt also does not get spoken about enough. Right. Like both of us are sitting here having left our kids. I'm sure you know, they are at the back of our mind. Definitely we're thinking about what they're doing right now. Despite being an extremely ambitious person myself, going back to work again I think was the hardest thing I've had to do.

29:22 Definitely. Right. I, I mentioned I went back to work when he was three and a half months and the guilt hit in a, a big manner. You know, I found myself staying up and questioning, is this even the right thing? If I chose to have him, why am I not sacrificing my career for him? So, you know, all of these big questions used to hit at all the wrong times because sleep really mattered then. But if anything, these questions were keeping me up even more.

29:45 Yeah. So, you know, over time what I've realized is that the guilt doesn't go away even today. Like because I'm working in India and most of my stakeholders are in the us so I'm required to take a lot of meetings in the evening and there'll be times when, you know, Kabir will be like, no, mama, you have to sit down and play with me. And I'm torn between the two needs. I find that, yeah, coming back to what I was saying, the guilt doesn't go away.

30:07 I've just learned to manage it better. Acknowledging that something will have to give at some point. Right. So if I'm not able to sit down and play with him at that point, I'll make it up later. Right. I'll sacrifice maybe another thing from my life, maybe my own time, my self care time, and give it to him. But I'll make sure I show up later. So yeah, the guilt doesn't go away. You just learn to manage it is what I have realized.

30:31 So that's the second thing and the last thing I think is I've realized that work, life, balance, at least in the way that it is described, is A myth. You can't have work in life be 50, 50 all days. It's impossible. Right. Like, there are weeks where work becomes a priority and life will take a backseat, but then I will be sure to, you know, make it up to my husband and my kid in the following weeks.

30:54 Like, well, you know, work might have to take a backseat, but that's the way you juggle. Right. So instead of looking at it as balance, I have more started looking at it as a rhythm. Right. There will be the peaks where work does get intense, but hopefully it comes back down. And for as long as it maintains that pattern, I consider it healthy. If it goes up, either work or even home stress and stays there, I feel like that's the perfect recipe for a burnout.

31:17 Right. So anytime that happens, I'll check myself and be like, something needs to change. Right. It might either involve a conversation at work or a conversation at home, but I'll be sure to have it because I've been through that pattern before where I didn't do it, and then the repercussions were significant. So, yep, those are the three things.

31:34 I absolutely relate to it again, because, you know, all the mothers who've come to the show have said that it's a myth, and I also personally believe in that. And you did touch on a very good point, which is mom's guilt, because our last guest on the show is building something around maternal mental health, and she said, you know, both the sides, the grass is always greener on the other side. So people who are working have this guilt of leaving the kid, whereas people who are at home, they always feel like we're not working.

32:01 We, you know, we're not doing enough. So I think that is every mom's. Kahani.

32:06 I agree. I think maternal mental health is such an important and, you know, a topic that doesn't get spoken about enough. Because I feel like our mothers were conditioned. Yeah. Belief, a certain thing. They raised us, you know, in. In the best ways that they could, but they were also conditioned to not challenge. Challenge a lot of the things that were happening around them. So we were brought up very, very differently. Right. We were raised to be more empowered, to challenge, to ask.

32:35 And when things don't make sense, it definitely messes with your maternal. And to add to that, you know, it's the. The hormones that are coming right after birth. So I think nothing's easy in those first six months to it. Yeah. In fact, even longer, I would say it took me a full two years to gain my identity. Definitely back Like I used to find myself questioning a lot of the time. It takes time. And for anyone watching this, I just say, hang in there.

32:59 It does get better.

33:00 Yeah, yeah. I would also give the same advice to people. So, yeah, I think you just learn to manage. I think now our kids are three, so we are comparatively more. They're slightly more independent than how they were. So that does also change, although it has its own challenges. But the last question of this segment is that how has the definition of ambition changed for you after becoming a mother?

33:25 Right. I'll go back to how, you know, my first answer where, you know, I said I was still approaching my career like an exam where I had to ace every outcome, be on top of everything, just constantly give it my best because I needed to prove to someone or even to myself that I belong there. I think that has changed. And how in the last 10 years, right. Even before becoming a mother, I would say in some way, ways.

33:51 So the first thing that has changed is I no longer approach my career as a sprint. Right. Because that's the perfect recipe again for burning out. You keep giving it your all. You do 200%. You do it five months and then you realize that you're in a really bad place. Right. Both mentally as well as at work. You simply won't have the same kind of outcome if that's how you're feeling mentally. So I learned to approach it more as a marathon where sustainability is just as important as ambition.

34:18 Sure. I'm saying don't be any less ambitious. I don't think that changed about. About me, but definitely thought about making work and life more sustainable than I was thinking before. So that's the first major shift. Yeah. The second thing that has changed, you know, in how I think about success since becoming a mother, I do like to have control over how and where I am spending my time. Where previously, you know, my performance outcomes were all I cared about, now I also want to find purpose and meaning in the work that I am doing.

34:56 Right. For example, today in my current capacity, I get to invest in people. I get to help them find opportunities that they did not have before. You know, mine's a managerial role. I get to coach people, I get to mentor them. I get to match them with things that possibly they wouldn't have identified on their own. And that gives me a deep sense of purpose beyond is the performance outcome, which I'm not saying I don't care about at all.

35:23 It ensures that I continue to, you know, stay and thrive at Meta. But I think on A daily basis. This is what gives me a lot of purpose and meaning. So that's, you know, I'm choosing to spend my time in a certain way helping people grow while also helping my team achieve the business outcomes that it has to. So that's number two.

35:42 Okay.

35:42 And the third thing would be I still look forward to, I think I still look forward to getting challenging problems to solve at work up. Leveling myself in skill, not just level, is something that I've always deeply cared about. And I find that the best way to learn is, I mean, no shade to anyone who's pursuing formal education to upskill themselves. But what's worked for me, I think the most is just throwing myself deep into the problem and then figuring out a way of solving it right in the process.

36:14 Of course I would need support. I need my mentors, I need my coaches, I need my manager to show me the path sometimes. But I feel like the amount you learn, solving a problem in a very hands on manner gives you the kind of skill and capability that maybe, you know, sitting in a classroom does not. So that's an aspect of my career that I still deeply care about. So if that's happening, I would consider my career successful that it was growing in the right direction.

36:39 So that's about, you know, whatever's happening at work now. A big aspect of my personality, identity and my life also is that I am a mother to a three and a half year old today, right. And the kind of human we are raising right is just as important, if not more than my career. So, you know, investing in him and ensuring that, you know, he's growing up with the right values and qualities is really, really important to both my husband and I.

37:11 And there was this thing a manager of mine said to me one time. This was, was when I wasn't a mother yet. And he used to talk about value, his value system a lot. And I asked him once, you know, how do you make sure you're passing on the right values to your children? He said, diksha, you can keep talking to them as long as you want about what you want them to embrace and it'll all go to waste.

37:34 But kids are observing all the time, so you have to live the values yourself for them to learn and embrace the them, right? So what I try to do is live by my values as much as I can. You know, I want to pass on to Kabir the ability to dream big, the ability to be bold, the ability to chase and pursue a career that, you know, doesn't seem like the most practical thing to do at all times.

37:57 So, yeah, I'm hoping, you know, he's, he's observing despite him just being three and a half and he takes some of this with him as he grows older.

38:05 Definitely. I think he's a very good kid. So you have nothing to worry there. But yeah, I think we are now moving towards the end of the podcast and just one last question from my end would be that, you know, if someone is planning to make a move or some career oriented female out there, you know, is watching the channel. So what will be your suggestion to them? Like what is that one piece of advice which you will tell these girls or, you know, these females?

38:34 My career advice is actually going to be a personal advice where I'd say, girls, ladies, choose your partner wisely. I'd say that's the, that's the biggest career advice that I have to offer. I think if my partner had not stepped up for me in the ways that he has, I would not be where I am today.

38:53 Right.

38:54 Like the move to India in itself. Right. Would have been such a failure. If KP did not step up in the way that he did at home. I'd say KP as well as his parents. You know, my in laws have been some of the biggest cheerleaders of my career. I mean, of course my parents were before I got married, but not everybody gets to experience that post marriage. It's changing now majorly, especially in the big cities, but I still don't think it's true for most of India.

39:20 So I'd say just, you know, choose wisely. Very smart. Yeah, yeah.

39:26 And yeah, I think major cities are open to that sort of and you know, where the father is taking care of the kid. And so I think I've known a lot of examples personally, but yeah, it's a very different thing compared to how we've grown up and what we've seen. And I'm so happy that you guys are doing it and it's so nice to, you know, know people so closely who are actually embracing it. So thanks a lot for sharing that.

39:51 So to our viewers, we are. You heard Diksha's story about her journey, her career progression, how she moved from an individual contributor role to a manager role, changed countries, had a kid and managed it all without, you know, basically reinventing herself with the help of the infrastructure around her. So this was her journey, her quietly ambitious story. And we'll be back with more such stories. And Diksha, thanks a lot for being a part of this podcast today.

40:17 It was. I mean, I know you personally, we meet every week, but this was one aspect, I think, which I also learned today. So thanks a lot for sharing your story with us.

40:26 Of course. Geeta, thank you so much for having me. Thank you.

40:30 Thank you. Please like subscribe and comment on the video. We'll be back with more such stories of people, people building something, people figuring out life as and when, you know, things come to them. So thanks a lot for watching.