Hitler Fought Antifa, but He Was a Secret Admirer - Rainer Zitelmann

0:01 Hitler seems to be the only bad guy that our kids in here in America are taught about from history. We they don't get taught about Stalin or Mao. Not really. Um and he has for for obviously good reason a huge outsized sort of role in the psyche of sort of historical bad guys. and you have written about his economics and about what national socialism meant. So I guess for starters you know what was national socialism?

0:36 Yes, before I answer the question, um you're absolutely right. They haven't heard about the others about Stalin and Mao. I can give you one example. I had in the last 20 months, um I traveled to 30 countries to promote my books and I asked people, have you heard about the biggest socialist experiment in history? This was from Alatun's so-called great leap forward from 1958 to 1962 where 45 million people died and wherever I spoke whether that was in Asia, Latin America, Europe, the United States only very few people raised their hand whether I spoke to 20 people 200 2,000 they haven't heard about this this is the big problem and of course it's good that everyone heard about the crimes of you know Adolf Hitler and who killed 6 million Jews.

1:29 and started the second world war. But they don't know much or nothing about his uh economic thinking. And this was the topic of my first doctor dissertation that is published in the United States with the title Hitler's National Socialism. By the way, I don't like to speak about Nat. I I I know that you use this word. This was a polyimic word uh coined by his enemies coined by socialists or communists in the 30s because they or they called him fascist or Nazi because they didn't want to call him national socialist. This was the way how they called themselves because they don't want to get uh this word socialism that is a good word for them connected to something that is bad. But I think we should call them what they were and how they called themselves. So don't use Nazi, use national socialists and national socialism. This was what they are.

2:29 >> One of the conflicts that I'm aware of and at the time in the streets was a was a conflict between the young national socialists and communists who believed in a sort of international revolution. Is that is that is that correct? >> Yes. And some people interpret Hitler to be fundamentally closer to Reagan than to Stalin because he was in a battle and his people were in a battle with the communists. Is that is that am I am I understanding that correctly?

3:08 >> Yeah, but this is absolutely wrong. You know, Reagan is a free market thinker and pro-democracy against any form of totalitarian thinking. And communists and nationalist pro- socialists, they competed. They were rivals against democracy against capitalism. They were rivals. And Hitler had fear about the communist. He only took them serious. He thought that the how they called them the bourgeoa the bourgeoa the bourgeoa parties as very weak you know weak and the communists and the workers as strong and he said we have to win these people to come over the workers the communists because they are strong because in his worldview what was social darinism it was only between the strong and then the you know the um the the the the weak And for them the the the bourgeoa system was weak. So the only really threat for him was communism. And he admired the communists in a lot of way. He he adapted a lot with his uh with their rallies. And so even in mine camp he wrote that uh he he analyzed why they were successful and then he uh for example the the the you know the the workers day that is in Germany the the 1 of May. What is a a free you you don't have to work there. I think the United States is not this way. I think you have to work on the 1 of May.

4:41 >> Yeah. There's no >> but in Germany today you don't have to work there on the 1 of May. This was always the know the the the day of the fight and struggle from the communist movement. But one of the first things Hitler did, he made it a free day in in Germany for for for everyone. So he he he adapted some of the ideas and some of the methods from communists because he thought they are much more successful than the other ones that they are stronger. And he said, "I tried always to win the people from the far left because they were real fighters, really strong and not like this car, you know, bourgeoa tolerant because tolerance was for him a very bad word like tolerance."

5:30 Yes. He admired people when he wanted to praise something. When he wanted to praise speak positive about something someone he said, "Oh, he was really fanatic." Yes, fanatic beats were ah this is great. He was real fanatic like from far ra this is the people that we need for our movement. So they competed each other in the fight both against free market economy against capitalism. So it's very wrong. I know there's an interpretation that Hitler was um his real enemy was communism. No, his real enemy was democracy, liberal democracy and capitalism. And his competitor in the fight against who will succeed in the fight against democracy, who will win in the fight against um capitalism.

6:25 This is uh his movement in the end of his life. In 1994 four he he met Mussolini the fascist leader from Italy and he said to him capitalism has no future. The future will be national socialism fascism and maybe boeism communism in the east. Maybe even at this time he was not 100% sure to to win total Israel and maybe bism would remain. So this is what you have to understand that it's a misunderstanding that Hitler's real purpose was to overcome communism.

7:03 Communism was is enemy is but more in the way of a rival of two totalitarian movements that both go against capitalism. And there are other interpretations. For example, maybe you heard about the German historian Ansna. In a way I I I I I like him and I met him several times and he had this theory that national socialism was all against communism but I I I don't believe so. Sometimes people ask why was his fight strong against the communists against as against this bourgeoa forces because he didn't take the other serious he thought okay these people for forget them they are not strong these these are weak weak people I and and he had fear yes from communist but because he in in his worldview he he is always very important to understand he had only this thinking strong and weak and strong and weak Communists strong, workers strong, bourgeois, capitalism weak. This is how he thought.

8:05 He was a social darinist. And as a social darinist, he believed in competition. And he was afraid that if you nationalize everything from one day to another that there would be no more competition. And this was the reason why he was skeptical against nationalizing everything. But I have to add this and maybe we can then later talk more about this. Um his attitude towards this questions uh free market economy, planned economy, the role of the state changed a little bit in the 30s and the 40s because he became more and more Stalin became more and more his role model and he admired more and more the Soviet planned economy. This is what happened uh in the uh in the 30s and especially in the in the 40s.

8:56 >> I don't know how or why uh the Soviet the early phases of the Soviet Union appeared at least from the outside to be going so well that someone like Hitler would admire them. I don't know if that's do you have a do you have a sense of why or how that was happening? Was it just like moving moving people into cities and sort of force industrializing? >> Okay. Okay. If you come from a know more and most agricultural background and you started industrialization and you do it with this iron fist with a force you know even took the even a lot of people and peasants were killed millions of millions and you for them like slaves. Of course, you can get on the short run some great results on the on the first hand, but um yes, this was what Hitler admired. He there's one quote from him about Stalin in his inner circle. Of course, he didn't say it in public. He said, "Here there's a there's a state and at the top of the state there's a man with an iron fist and he says, "Are 13 million uh dead people? Is it too much for a great idea?

10:08 >> Where is he drawing his ideas from? Where is Hitler coming up with his vision for the German economy? >> Yes. First of all, what a lot of people don't know, they think about Adolf Hitler as someone only like um uh a shouting at you know like being being crazy being being insane because you have when he had a speech about two hours and there were maybe two minutes when he was really you know this way but not the whole speech it's it's not possible. So they they thought he he was very um irrational and um that he didn't have any kind of philosophy but >> that he was just a madman just a >> like a madman but this is not true Hitler read a lot of books he had thousands of books and every night he did you know reading books about history about economy about politics about military things and there was a movement in the Vimmer Republic public. It was called the conservative revolution. Like it was called this way and they had this some some of these ideas like they called it the a way between capitalism on the one hand and and socialism on on the other or communism on the other.

11:26 This is what he also wanted. So this was how he saw his movement as an alternative to communism on the one hand and capitalism on on the one hand. So and he had ideas about the economy before you know first I have to tell you a little bit what I did for my book my it was this this book headless national socialists was my first doctor dissertation you have two PhDs one in history the other in sociology and this was in in history and I was the first one to analyze first his two books you know he wrote mine k but there's also another book that was never published in his life it he wrote it 1928 you call it Hitler's second book, but all of his speeches. I analyzed every speech. I was the first one to to read all of his speeches. And this time it was um not easy because there today you have a scientific edition for historians uh all of his speeches. I had to go to all of his archives and to read and photocopy his the transcriptions of his speeches, make photocopies from all the newspapers where his speeches were published. And then in addition to this uh he wrote also a lot of essays. I copied these and then what is very uh very important um there there are the so-called table talks of at Adolf Hitler's or his monologues in the fur headquarter. What what is this? No, every evening um almost every evening he spent some hours in the night. He went to bed very late like 3:00 in the morning or something like this but he went up only at 11 a.m.

13:04 and he was sitting there with his staff and even with his assistants and spoke all the time about history about economy about politics about uh about women about about almost about religion about everything and everyone had to sit there on the table and and listen to to him. Sometimes people were really tired because it was 2:00 or 3 in the morning but you can't say oh I have I heard heard it before I'm too tired go to bed no if the fur is uh speaking we have to sit there at least very interesting yes and there was one Martin Borman his name and he took notes and why is this important we know what he really thought because he status in his inner circle you know and what I did for my book I compared the things that he wrote in his books and in his speeches on the one hand and his inner circle and in some ways it's consistent it's the same what he said in his propaganda and in his inner circle but there's also difference and especially I give you one very uh example I mentioned it before his attitude towards Stalin and the Soviet Union of course when he was in war with the Soviet Union and with Stalin you could hear not a single positive word about Stalin from him in public in his speeches it were the enemy But when he spoke in his inner circle, it was forbidden to say something negative about Stalin. Even if someone mentioned that he was a bankrupt before what he was, Stalin, Hitler interrupted him. No, no, he did it only for revolution. Don't say something like this. And if there was a picture with a sticker in the mouth, he said, "No, no, don't take this picture." Because he admired him. There are a lot of quotes from him in his table talks where he said, "Stalin in his way is a genius. He knows his role models like Chingis Khan and what he did in the economy is great. He said no there there was no poverty in the Soviet Union as in the United States for example and they had gigantic factories and they had this great four-year plans and then it was more and more his idea.

15:07 He said after we won the war we have to go much more in the direction of a planned economy because only a planned economy will solve our problem. So this was his plan. Of course in in the time of the war he couldn't have this huge conflicts with entrepreneurs. Sometimes they had it. Yes. But it was not the real time. But he said very often after we won the war and you know he he believed a lot of time for a long time that he will win the war we will go more and more in this direction of a planned planned economy. And what he said and this is important. He said nationalism and socialism is the same. It's the same because it means the priority of politics, the priority of the state. And there's one very important speech. He says a lot of people think that first there's the individual interest and then as a result of all this in individual interests there's the common interest like Adam Smith said in his book the wealth of nations and he said this is totally wrong it's exactly the opposite first there's the common interest and the individual interest is to be you know subordinated to this you had in Germany some slogans at this time one was gayb forb This means common good before individual good. This was the slogan for another slogan was it means you are nothing. Your people is everything. If you like this clip, you should check out the full video and all the other great content we've got at Dad Saves America. So, be sure to hit the like button, subscribe, and ring that bell so you won't miss our new stuff as it drops each week.