Is It Possible To Stop Wasting Life - Kapil Gupta MD & Stewart Alsop

0:00 let's get right into it how has your day been no day's a day did anything surprising happen no what is your relationship to surprise does surprising things happen to you i don't know the events of life are unpredictable and things

0:32 happen and the details of what does and doesn't really is largely you know not very significant and so what drives you to do the things that you do yeah that's the search for the truth something that's very deep in my bones and there's no real strategy it's just something that's very much a part of me and his my life's devotion

1:02 we could go into what is truth again we've already kind of covered that um what do you spend most of your time doing is it in calls is it in silence is it writing much of my time is in writing

1:35 and what is the relationship between writing and the truth writing is an exploration of truth can anyone find the truth without writing is it possible to come to the truth in a conversation like this it depends upon the nature of the human being um you know the truth is not really a an agreed upon thing which comes about through a discussion

2:06 it's something that is um something that comes about through a a deep devotion to find it so it isn't a debate or a uh a question and answer type of thing if these types of things do anything at all they perhaps may to a given individual serve as an inspiration much more than any kind of information and then what is the relationship

2:37 between inspiration and devotion does inspiration lead to devotion i don't know these are definitional definitional things really are abstract they don't really go anywhere and then how can one become more

3:09 practical in what in their life so if these are if all the questions i just asked you are abstract and essentially meaningless how does one find meaning by looking at the acute events of their life by looking at the the things that they are doing in their

3:39 life the things that are most prevalent that they are involved in most importantly the motivation behind why they do the things that they do and to discover if that is a chase for pleasure if that is uh a chase to nowhere or if it's time that is actually spent uh in a valuable way that might actually lead them somewhere so it really comes down to the person himself and not

4:09 not trying to find out where he should or what he should or how he should but what is it that you want and what is it that you're doing and how are you missing the boat those are the questions that every person has to ask themselves if they are serious about getting somewhere wherever that somewhere may be

4:43 missing the boat that sounds interesting this might go into prescriptions but what are the signs that someone is missing the boat everyone's missing the boat so you you wrote about something that seems relevant to this which is that asking ourselves what we want right now how do i ask myself what i want and the

5:15 first thing that shows up isn't isn't what i want but it's that it's a discovery that goes into what i want um can you talk more about that no one really knows what they want they they know everyone's wants are generally a a reaction to a non-want so no one's really searching for happiness for example everyone's searching for an escape from misery [Music] so it it really comes down to knowing that you have x

5:47 number of years left to live and how many more years you're willing to spend chasing fruitless things believing nonsense following prescriptions and wasting your life so the most practical thing would be to admit to your to yourself that you are in fact completely frivolously wasting your life and that you have been and how many more months slash years

6:18 are you willing to do so that would be the most practical person as opposed to someone who lies and pretends and that's what i was going to ask is what is the main things that gets in the way of somebody realizing that they're wasting their life because they believe that the following of prescription actually goes somewhere therefore that makes them believe that they're not wasting their life

6:50 people are very tied to their beliefs they they equate belief with reality so does a search for truth necessarily entail a giving up of all beliefs what about the beliefs that are um not conscious like unconscious beliefs

7:24 well i don't know what that means first of all second of all just begin with the ones that you believe so there is no such thing as belief someone resorts to belief when they do not know either you know or you don't know and neither one is wrong but to believe is a cop-out

8:23 hello so you do you have beliefs beliefs come but they go through a filtering mechanism with the

8:55 intent to destroy them because they because they meet a deep desire to want to know the truth and therefore they kind of get destroyed by themselves so when i find myself having an opinion or a belief it doesn't really satisfy me because the desire to know the truth is infinitely greater for me than the desire to um both hold on to and uphold a belief

9:27 and so has that always been present or is that something you trained yourself or habituated yourself to i don't know what does it matter i i don't like whatever i do or don't do what does that matter how does that in any way have any relevance to your life well because if i want okay well if i wanted to get to the truth then is it okay why do you want to get to the truth

10:00 i have noticed that the closer the or the more i aim towards the truth the more life opens up but that could also be a sense of pleasure seeking as well and what's wrong and what's wrong with pleasure seeking that it's an endless an endless process so so what

10:39 hmm so what we've just displayed and demonstrated is another rule that you're trying to follow and therefore you turned pleasure seeking into a rule not to break therefore you prescriptionized it

11:14 so it seems it [Music] seems impossible anything that i do will lead to a prescription yes all doings are a complete and utter waste of time so you're talking about it is not accessible to is it's not there's not there's nothing that i can do in order to receive it

11:46 that's right all things happen of their own accord when the requisite degree of sincerity and seriousness arises so it goes back to the sincere dean seriousness but there can't be any prescriptions towards seriousness for sincerity because if you're acting for prescription that means that there is no sincerity absolutely but it's important not to make prescriptions a prescription because if you if you don't follow prescriptions because i say so you're

12:17 following a prescription so it's really is about fundamentally understanding not about following people it isn't about listening to people it is about understanding what is the real thing going on here why is it that i say no prescriptions without any sense of faith in my words without any sense of belief or opinion or agreeing don't ever agree with me it's horrible to be agreed with

12:48 don't ever agree with me just go into use your own intelligence as a way to incisively dissect the concept of prescriptions rather than the easy way out the lame man common man way of just taking something put it in their pocket and try to follow it which is what everyone is doing and which is what everyone will continue

13:20 to do forever so then the it also seems that the world of of talking in glazier center earlier that the conversation is is useless because we can't get to it i can't get to it through a conversation i can't pry into it and figure it out because anything you say will just be a reflection of of of because words themselves are

13:51 prescriptions well i think that your desire to get to it is useless because the whole reason you want to get to it is because you want to cross some finish line and put a feather in your cap you haven't examined the truth enough to know if it's what you really want yet or not so to ask how to get it is extraordinarily premature

14:23 a human being if he's honest he can at least be honest with where he stands where are you are you a prescription follower fine that's honesty a person might say i have not yet understood what no prescriptions means therefore i follow meditation instructors and i do mindfulness and i read nonsensical books which takes me nowhere that's fine and i can be criticized left and right for doing so

14:54 and i accept the criticism but the bottom line is it's all i know right now that's honesty that sincerity that is a place to begin but to go off on a chase and try to add more prescriptions to all the ones that done nothing for you already is a waste of time that is the height of dishonesty

15:29 so yes the dishonesty there there seems to be a i am not quite clear where i am that's that's an interesting point um well there's no reason that you should be clear where you are because you have been so busy chasing prescriptions that you never really examined where you are so why would you know and you aren't the only one

16:07 just look to your left and to your right in the meditation hall [Music]

17:28 okay

18:16 do you ever ask yourself the question who am i no [Music]

18:52 so i'm right into a perceived issue because there's you know there's a we're recording a podcast and i have nothing to say anymore but you know and that like because we can't have a meaningful discussion about this because

19:23 do is it well it goes back to the same question is it even useful to be having this conversation not for the purposes that you seem to desire if you have come to this conversation looking for the truth you are premature i think what the biggest problem is for all people

19:58 is that they believe that they need additional information and additional prescriptions to get somewhere and there is no shortage of instructors and coaches and on and on who are willing to oblige those requests so quite frankly

20:30 the most fruitful and effective thing that you could be engaged in is the thing that you don't really want to do which is to look at yourself and what does that mean to look at oneself to examine the lies and the chases if they are in fact ready

21:04 to stop chasing and stop lying almost no one is therefore that is why no one is ready to examine them because if you examine them then you'll see through them well why would you examine something that you're not interested in people are very comfortable continuing on with blindfolds in their small little lives

21:37 regurgitating nonsense reading empty books going to their instructors practicing mindfulness socializing the night away what reason is there to change okay now we're getting somewhere because i'm experiencing confusion and

22:22 my hmm

23:06 so the reason that i have for change is that i'm suffering and that life is painful and is there a way out of well the way you said the way that it is to look at oneself well how do you know that you want a way out how do you know that your desire for a way out of the pain and suffering has reached a fever pitch what evidence do you have for that

23:39 not for me but in showing yourself yeah i would say the pain is not and is like bad enough to uh it's like mildly want out but it's not enough to have yeah okay so human beings do not change course

24:11 until their backs against the wall and there's a tiger at the bottom of the cliff there has to be a sufficiently powerful impetus for any significant transformation to even want to occur

25:42 and until that emphasis happens it's essentially just all that prescription chasing and not really doing anything not really having that impetuous to look at oneself you know there has to be some form of a desire that has to be there either that desire is simply there by way of one's dna

26:13 or it arises by way of circumstance otherwise why would why would anyone change course at all there'd be no reason to do you think we're headed as a species into species is irrelevant i couldn't care less about species species is a convenient way to get to

26:44 not have to look at oneself no one cares about the species you can't try to look at one yourself you just have to have desire to look at one's self isn't that how you do everything in your life do you ever do anything in your life that you don't have a desire to do

27:21 or a desire to avoid something well same thing yeah

28:19 um what are you trying to get to in your life in anything whether it's materialistic or so called spiritual whatever that means not where you should go well you're asking me what are the act what am i what where am i headed

28:50 what are the things that i'm striving for yes most viscerally yeah i would say pleasure okay in what money recognition

29:22 and the money and the recognition have you attained it um recognition a little bit but but money you know so what is it that drives you to get a bet every single day i've asked myself that question many times i don't know the answer for a long time i wouldn't well you don't have to you know you don't have to ask yourself yourself doesn't know

29:54 but if you were to put a camera on your head and examine what you do every single day without any words or explanations what would you find yourself doing most prominently learning uh uh learning about stuff uh thinking uh what is the what is the single most prevalent activity that you're involved in every day

30:31 self-referential thinking for what uh the chase no no you're you're being too clever with your answers talk to me like a six-year-old what are you looking for what do you spend your time forget the chase forget pleasure you're trying to be too clever by giving me responses from my own discourses tell me what you are looking for what do you

31:04 find yourself doing every day most prevalent prevalently most ubiquitously so i i get up right now i get up i go uh i do a breath work session with some with people and then go for a walk i grab coffee i spend a lot of time reading and then um so if someone was to watch you

31:35 and they were allowed to write down one thing without ever asking you a word they were to write down one thing that after having observed you for a number of days that this is the thing that you are most interested in as evidenced by their observation of you what one thing would they write down be specific they wouldn't write down pleasure chase

32:26 struggling well you'd be struggling on your way to something you'd be struggling with something what would that person say is your greatest interest creativity in what and you're not you're not being specific enough

32:56 what is the most prevalent activity that he would say

33:33 understanding what i guarantee you he would not write down understanding [Music] you're too caught by the spiritual bug

34:04 what would this non-spiritual regular run-of-the-mill human being write down would you would he call you a bicyclist no would he call you a construction worker what would he what would he by examining your behavior your activities and given the assignment of writing down the most prevalent thing that he sees you doing

34:35 what would he say is your greatest desire slash activity slash pursuit meaning making making meaning he would not know what making meaning

35:05 means he would not see you reading a book called meaning he might but likely not that's too deep what would he see you doing living so he would see you just sitting in a chair all day long living yeah in front of a computer okay so he would see you on the computer okay now we're maybe getting warm okay

35:36 what would he see you doing on the computer what is the most prevalent activity that he would see you doing what topic it's going back to learning again learning what well how the brain works how the how the yeah the brain and body work

36:06 okay so you're saying that the most prevalent thing that you find yourself doing if you were to observe would be how the brain and the body work that would be the number one thing it's pretty up there i have a diverse set of things that i do though but that would be that would be the thing that the biggest that's what you gravitate towards yeah

36:36 why i don't know what are you what are you looking for yeah i don't know there's no way that you don't know otherwise you wouldn't be doing it you're looking for something

37:16 epiphanies it's like an epiphany that when a connection gets made between um oh um yeah i had this experience when i was younger where i stopped breathing it happened many times and my experience of understanding the brain

37:47 and the body is helping me to understand more about what happened then okay and where would you like to take this is this done to get somewhere either professionally or whatever it may be i mean it's partly wrapped in than that because i cannot i've also realized that me understanding that about my own body helps me understand about other people's bodies and they don't understand a lot of this stuff okay so you're doing it so that you can

38:18 teach others yeah yeah okay so how does this tie into making money and becoming well-known others is it that you want to become well known for teaching others about the brain and

38:48 the body no there's there's it's the money aspect i want to teach courses online to companies that are distributed that have no office and those people can benefit greatly from uh learning more about their bodies and minds okay so that's how this ties in so this is this is directly related to a professional pursuit

39:19 yeah is that right it is now yeah okay okay so what i will say to you is there is a truth to that there is whatever you are pursuing there is a truth that will lead to the fruition of that in its ultimate bloom there's a truth to how it fails there's a truth to succeeding mildly truth is not spiritual

39:51 it is the only practical thing there is spirituality is completely and totally impractical it is entirely theoretical it has no basis in reality because it has been mired in concepts and ideals

41:15 hello bye

42:23 [Music]

43:07 hey so we're gonna run into this issue that there's nothing i can say here there's just uh i'm having a constant stream of thoughts and none of those thoughts are [Music] important

43:38 significant i would say that the extrapolation of that into your own life is perhaps the most valuable thing so then yeah and then there's [Music] if all of that is ignored all that the superficial all of it is just kind of

44:08 meaningless there's this other part that isn't meaningless but i'm never there the thoughts aren't there when it happens everything that everyone does is meaningless the only thing that matters is the thing that has the possibility of bringing deep and lasting satisfaction and what is that whatever brings you deep and lasting satisfaction

44:41 but whatever you are chasing will not bring it to you because chases do not bring satisfaction satisfaction happens when a thing comes to you and a thing comes to you when it is attracted to you and it is attracted to you when you demonstrate a level of seriousness that is uncommon and therefore you become a worthy

45:12 repository for that thing um

45:47 it sounds like a kind of um this is a it's a concept again it's this world wordless devotion um i suppose but the more you idolize a concept the more you will lose your way so beware of epiphanies they tend to take you off track

47:21 hey

48:15 so what is the truth of how i succeed in bringing you know understanding of mind and bodies into a business and having them pay me money for that i don't believe it's a question that you have explored it is not well yeah it's not no so the truth will come through the exploration and the nature of the exploration will depend upon

48:47 the depth of the desire for the truth as opposed to the search for prescriptions and i could turn that into a prescription and say exploration how do i do exploration but that is only just essentially this this yeah this this willingness to to

49:18 ship away at it every person wants the truth about the thing they're really seeking the greatest misconception is that the truth is spiritual and it's gotten viewed and perceived as this spiritual term but in fact it is the only practical thing there is

49:50 because everything has a truth everything has a two plus two equals four where the two and the two are satisfied the four is inevitable that is the only logic and the only lucidity

50:21 and the only practicality following prescriptions is completely ineffective and entirely impractical for anything that is non-mechanical um

51:03 [Applause] [Music]

51:37 so much of life so much of human existence is non-mechanical there's a lot of mechanical things we do throughout the day but the the [Music] um all the most of what's important to us is not mechanical and then you can now get some inkling for just how much of a human life is wasted since most of it is non-mechanical and if all that is non-mechanical is prescriptionized

52:10 life is a waste and that goes back to the second apps that we did of the conferences the conferences are always to the the seminars are the workshops unless it's is there one what is the role of human to human uh can one human guide another human

52:41 without being prescriptive first you would have to have two truly sincere and serious human beings in the room uh two is hard to find if you were to have that then it would be more by way of ver a very loose guidance through the vehicle of inspiration much more than information and as for conferences you you have to examine things logically

53:15 who are the conferences for therefore the masses who are the books that are published for they're for the masses they have to be dumbed down and speaking completely honestly the person who wrote it doesn't have to do doesn't have to go to any length to dumb it down he hasn't found it himself

53:47 because he's fitting he's fitting the message into the slot though he is one of the masses it is like he's withholding anything that's all he knows so everything is by the masses for the masses so how could it be any different you have to examine the source you have to examine the audience you have to examine the demand and thus you have to examine the supply

54:18 it cannot be otherwise the supply and the demand teach each other they are soul mates one creates the other who is going to create something for which there is no market whatsoever you could argue that i had done such a thing

54:49 and you wouldn't be too far off but that isn't a that isn't a very appealing thing for virtually anyone the supply is created in order to feed the demand and that's the mechanical no that's all untruth

55:24 people are seeking prescriptions therefore they are given prescriptions the masses seek prescriptions then one of the masses who was seeking those prescriptions leaves and goes to write a book about prescriptions

55:57 you have to see society for what it is this mass enlightenment and the species and conscious capitalism and it's all drivel everyone is a liar everyone is a fraud

56:32 most prevalently to themselves uh

58:26 hmm [Music]

59:11 [Music]

59:44 this this this this loop in the head it doesn't get anywhere that none of those thoughts lead to anything it's just they lead to something when you're talking to someone else

60:20 i don't understand that do you have these long silences not knowing what to say with other guests no and the reason and the reason that you don't is because they oblige you with prescriptions and you eat it up and that is somewhere that the mind can and will willingly go

60:51 and every such conversation leaves you empty with nothing to show for your time the same is a social event it leaves you empty the pleasure comes the pleasure goes then there is a massive void a vacuum which one is compelled to refill

61:22 with another pleasure one more social event one more guest that you can ask questions to who will give you an answer and you will discuss and debate the answer and then you will say goodbye and he will say goodbye and he will go on with his life you will go on with yours and neither of you will get anywhere each of you may be proud afterwards to see how wonderfully you asked questions and he may be proud how wonderfully he

61:51 answered them it is a race to zero it is all empty ego so none of this can change the fundamental human condition

62:21 no why would it how can asking for prescriptions asking empty questions and receiving empty answers change the human condition i should have to say no examine it for yourself how can it i mean it can't because the then every podcast is a waste of time everyone talks nonsense listen to the radio listen to these talks

62:52 they're laughing at the time talking about their previous experiences making stupid jokes ridiculous comments asking empty questions about one's favorite color and the best shot he ever hit and where what he likes to do with his free time i think suicide is better human beings utterly and shamelessly waste their lives in a life is a very precious thing

63:25 but no activities are a waste are not a waste of time they're all activities are a waste of time anything that is dot done in order to gain some sense of permanence in one's life is a waste of time anything that keeps one on the hook for a chase that never ends is a waste of time that is not my definition

63:55 just listen to the words and see if they make sense to you you don't have to believe me if i give you something today and take it away tomorrow causing you to need it again the next day then take it away again causing you to need it again the next day and take it away again do you need to have faith in my words that that's a waste of time

64:28 what are you possibly going to ask on all these shows how is it possibly going to transform your life and if it's not going to then what's the point i mean then what's the point of anything well that is an extreme view that you are using as a nice camouflage so that you don't have to examine what the things that you do are so that you can dismiss everything in

64:59 one stroke and not have to actually pick things apart and say wait a minute there could be some significance here that might lead to lasting satisfaction but in order to justify you doing these podcasts you will then say everything's meaningless and since i'm not going to not do anything then that'll allow me to justify doing these podcasts welcome to the world of the clever mind

65:45 you will never get your time back and as long as you realize that only intellectually you will one day arrive at the hour in which your time is up

66:16 so essentially the clever mind is an enemy it's like a stealing all my time just yeah you're not a victim you have the sense to be able to examine it rather than blaming the mind because i promise you if you were drowning in a lake you wouldn't say so

66:47 the lungs fill with water and the lungs are costing me my life that's more that's more cleverness so i have an appointment in a few minutes um i've got to wrap up uh

67:23 usually i ask for a prescription at the end and all throughout but that's there is no there's no having a conversation without prescriptions unless well all right that's and that's your way of saying that prescriptions are still okay with you which is which there is nothing wrong with okay yeah i've got to go but um thank

67:54 you and