# Live | Building Tokenfolio | Aman Agarwal with Abhishek Malik #finance

**Creator:** fab_money
**Platform:** youtube
**Duration:** 48m
**Source:** https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m

## Summary

Abhishek Malik, founder of Tokenfolio and an IIT Kanpur alumnus, discusses the startup ecosystem in India, emphasizing the importance of financial literacy and startup investments. He shares insights on the value of ESOPs (Employee Stock Ownership Plans), the potential of investing in startups, and the challenges faced by Indian employees in understanding and negotiating their compensation packages.

- Abhishek emphasizes the significance of startup investments, highlighting the disparity in opportunities for average Indian investors compared to institutional players.
- He discusses the importance of ESOPs, noting that many employees undervalue them and fail to negotiate effectively for equity in their compensation.
- The conversation touches on the need for greater financial literacy among Indian youth, especially regarding startup ecosystems and investment opportunities.
- Abhishek reflects on his own journey, noting that many successful startups emerge from college environments where students can experiment and learn without the pressure of immediate financial returns.
- He points out the challenges in the secondary market for investing in mature startups, including high ticket sizes and legal complexities that often exclude smaller investors.
- The discussion highlights the cultural differences in how ESOPs are treated in Indian versus U.S. companies, with Indian firms often having less favorable policies for employees.
- Abhishek encourages aspiring entrepreneurs to take risks and pursue their passions during their college years, as it can lead to valuable experiences and opportunities.
- He concludes by advocating for a more inclusive startup ecosystem in India, where financial opportunities are accessible to a broader audience.

## Transcript

[[0:00]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=0s)
foreign

[[0:32]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=32s)
okay I just just wait for two minutes uh I guess yeah hi great great how are you all good man all good thank you very much great amazing yes yes you are so so

[[1:03]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=63s)
um uh no no man I think I think it's all clear on mind uh let me know if you have trouble hearing me great great so yeah so I think we are good to go so maybe we can start so so yeah so first of all I would like to uh welcome your Abhishek on our platform and also I would like to welcome all the audiences right now over here in the live as you all must be

[[1:28]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=88s)
aware about that today's session is on uh from roadblocks to Trump's success stories in the startup journey and we have with us Mr Abhishek Malik who is the founder of tokenfolio so Mr vishek is an IIT kanpur aluminus coming from a mix of tech and investing background he has been investing in private markets since 2017. his last role before the color to uh before token polio was as the data scientist lead of German tokenization platform where he released

[[1:56]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=116s)
how fractionizing and digitizing assets improve participation from all stakeholders before that he built his first Venture a B2B Stars which was sold to gear Institute his proprietary Trek from this is now used to launch courses in 140 plus countries so it's great to have you here wishing well thank you very much for uh for the nice introduction and uh yeah looking forward to contributing and uh hopefully uh you know taking your journey of making more financially a little bit

[[2:27]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=147s)
forward great great so Abhishek I thought I would uh I would be a bias on that IIT kanpur okay right um I I mean uh I think my journey now is very different from the pre-order computer of course and um there are some um no there are some stories beyond the professional lines that have of course uh helped me help uh shaped me so far

[[2:59]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=179s)
and but but mostly like my journey has been quite unstable like I started as as an engineer uh when you do sciences studied astrophysics then went into data science and um you know AIML was not as popular back then but still still was quite an active thing but then I realized at some point I had my midlife crisis and you know when I moved back to India I didn't know really what what to what to do next

[[3:24]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=204s)
um this is where the entire um honestly I just wanted to do something like that for myself you know I also feel like uh there is some nationalistic angle here um when I moved back to India I started liking India way more uh you know people talk about how amazing the U.S and Germany and all these countries are but um really man like it's just grossful on the other side aggressively you know the other side kind of syndrome so uh when

[[3:53]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=233s)
you come back um there are so many things that I appreciate more and then honestly India is uh it's it's it is India's decade so if you're building something uh even a lot of foreign for that reason as well as uh the national listing angle here like this sounds like the right time to build what we're building and also sort of like a little bit of give back to the country here very good so as I mentioned that it's

[[4:23]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=263s)
quite a change when you come back to India anything what was the thing that you missed while you were abroad so any one thing honestly like everybody who's abroad realized that uh normal things like you know um Indian day-to-day Indian food is just not available you can try to make it by yourself but like I'm not uh the the people who know me here didn't know that I'm a terrible Chef uh on this so uh but

[[4:50]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=290s)
yeah man uh but beyond that um beyond the little things right I I do feels Indian I do feel that Indian Indian people in general are some of the most hard-working and like the real hustle culture uh is here you know and you can see this this series in startup uh system as well like when you look at companies like swinging nothing like that exists outside and what people have done very little so you know all

[[5:11]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=311s)
segmentally not only started you look at this thing that we had very little resources we do we are just used to achieving so much more so um that will now compound I believe over the next year so I I think it's just a mix of you know casual things like food and um of course the smartness and the hustle great great so yeah so I'll just take that point of uh as you mentioned about that investors and the growth

[[5:42]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=342s)
potential that right now we can see in India so you mentioned about Investments so uh like uh over here at Financial level Bharat also we try to uh give that financial literacy to our audience and make content on that so uh there is one aspect of it which is startup investing so what uh why do you think that startup Investments are important right so anything you would like to share on that right um so it's actually quite amazing

[[6:06]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=366s)
that we have Shark Tank uh now season two actually and uh I mean so many people are now aware of what startup investment is and uh why this is important and like how this happens with pitching you know and the angle of uh okay what sharks do um I feel like the show does not really capture the real uh market in terms of uh the the real game that happens but it is actually providing the uh basic

[[6:32]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=392s)
information needed to for this now that people are more aware about Stock Investing being a thing uh next up is actually providing people some tools to do it so now they are uh so first like let's just take a step back and talk about why this is important so if you look at companies like uh ozomato for example uh when zomato uh IPO is going on um there was huge hype I have friends that are signing up with like uh you

[[6:55]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=415s)
know duplicate like double phone numbers same account like different phone numbers so they can get more allocation and um happened at 116. uh peace worship this went uh nearly to half of it at some point and right now it's a 74 that's like that's like almost 35 to 40 percent money lost so people who got into it you know after all that you know signing up with multiple numbers they lost nearly half the money that's that

[[7:21]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=441s)
thing is not like the macro environment is bad right so there's no nothing on zomato but the early investors of the matter made so much more and still they made it so much more right so I feel like the average Indian is losing uh an average Indian does not have the uh the best opportunities out there and those happen of course when you come into the startup world when companies are not listed of course it's a bit more risk as

[[7:43]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=463s)
well um but the more there is but the upside is also in some cases I know investors that have made like 3000 X's of their earliest investors uh of their earliest investment in a company and then surprisingly uh companies like zomato who would have made a good multiples as well right but like not for retail investors so I feel like averaging Indian still is losing it is still a game for uh all the big guys or even the

[[8:09]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=489s)
foreign investors are involved so I feel like it's our country man like our people should have some experts at least now they're more more educated on this right right so yeah I think uh this has been something like if we keep a part investment so working for a starter has become something jokey uh like I have seen uh in campus if people are like they're not reluctant to work for a startup they would like to join startup

[[8:39]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=519s)
and uh then comes the point of esops maybe they pay less but there is something ESOP so I've seen not all but majority of the people are not aware about the true potential of esops and those unlisted shares which can act as a real value so what's your Abhishek take on that how one should manage their esops and what are these actually for just maybe you can share something about that yeah sure sure um I feel like this ESOP

[[9:06]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=546s)
topic is is a pain point that is pretty close to my heart and um I I feel pretty strongly about it because every now and then I see people some of them are my my close friends from campus you know uh when you join a startup in this case startup can be a very early stage company as well as a very late Stage Company as late as we for example it's not a listed company yet but it's a very

[[9:26]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=566s)
large company uh or like that's an IIT computer company so I have people uh for my close Circle and almost everybody at least in Bangalore ecosystem they get some esops but I feel like when people negotiate their ctcs you know when you did these fancy news about o1cr package to an IIT onto grad um one component of that package is esops and people just discount it for some reason a lot of even parents think that our EA pro shares like there's no

[[9:53]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=593s)
this is not something valuable so I'm like more and more I'm getting into this more monopolizing that it is important to make people more aware and this is not only real wealth that people are playing with for example uh there's a client of hours uh we are dealing in this growth stage company it's a fairly large company um I can share the name at least uh uh it's a focusment postman is um one of the biggest

[[10:16]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=616s)
one of the very well known unicorns of India one of the first ones are directly it's like the post boy of Indian unicorn ecosystem um so somebody working a person was an Indian company now they headquartered in the states so somebody working here um one of the clients that we have um we are dealing in their East office and we are acquiring their shirts and then our investors are dealing in Postman for example so when I actually

[[10:41]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=641s)
checked these documents I found that one third of his options or esops were expired you know so you have window to execute them so ESOP is nothing but an opportunity to buy share at a cheaper price if you don't buy it they will expand so I feel like one third of this was expired and I don't know I don't think he realized that uh you know this is real money going to waste in this case the value of these Observer expert

[[11:04]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=664s)
was not something around 40 lakh rupees this is literally like uh a transaction that like I know people who would buy it in a hardware like you know and he would have received this 40 lakhs immediately like that this is the money that I'm calling it money uh because he worked for it he was part of his package he earned it but I don't think people are aware that hey beyond your salary this is actually real money and that's more

[[11:25]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=685s)
than money they can they can post make an IPO on this can go like 3x correct at least right so I feel like Indians are losing here because Indians don't know this uh that well if you look at U.S market this person is now U.S company we speak to U.S shareholders um and uh Indian folks that are working in the states um so this in this case I know people who are actively uh buying and selling their shares like you know

[[11:51]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=711s)
ASAP folders so I think like just us people are a lot more aware my company is a lot more mature as well they educate people around this way this is an active negotiation point in their uh salary negotiations for example right so for example right now uh I think the biggest thing I would I will come back to this at some point in this call but the biggest thing I want to convey here is uh that it is easier for a company to

[[12:14]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=734s)
give out esops but harder for a company to give out money especially in times like this when cash is basically um basically is Cash crunch everywhere right so if you're sitting with a manager negotiating why not ask for instead of asking for 25 000 more every month like uh increment your salary why not ask for like one one lakh of ESOP everyone the difference is that company is not paying anything out of their own pocket you know so it's actually a good

[[12:38]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=758s)
negotiation point and then you can cash out that one lakh whenever we want like you know for companies like Postman it is fairly easy at least now not in India though because people are just not aware how to get this done this is something that that we are solving a token fully as well by the way okay great great so yeah I'll just give you an ex uh XP whatever I felt when I was interacting with one of the senior

[[13:00]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=780s)
right and not obviously not tell his name right now so uh we we were discussing about this esops and how to basically uh choose between multiple offers right so uh he was mentioning multiple things and he told about some of the Jewelers yeah they asked his payout like uh how like and then they asked about the base pay right so everyone uh so when he mentioned his base page right but he software quite large so they all reacted in quite uh

[[13:32]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=812s)
uncleazingly yeah but they were not respecting that base pay because as you mentioned about the point yeah people are very less aware about these these things Kia what exactly these can contribute to and finance from that let's uh I just wanted to discuss as we discussed about esops and something related to on the corporate side so uh what's your opinion on basic Stock Investing right so those who

[[14:03]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=843s)
prayed and uh who wants to get into stock market or any sort of mutual fund so what's your opinion on that um yeah so I feel like that depends on your risk threshold what is the ideal asset for you right so if you look at the stock market they are all large companies the company has to be at a certain level to be listed in the same organ Stock Exchange right so you might have got to that level and now

[[14:28]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=868s)
it's listed right so I feel like uh it is it is more safer or like your money will not disappear overnight for example um that might happen in the startup ecosystem yes um but it's also like the upside is limited you know people are ecstatic if they are zomato uh Holdings become like 2x is like a good return you know in in in the markets and more response Exchange so if you want something which is you

[[14:56]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=896s)
know which gives you a little bit more peace and you know you're investing by investing a bigger ticket size uh that is a slower moving Market but also less risky uh and safer and regulated what not uh but if you are trying to if you have X like at least some part of the portfolio should uh should be allocated in this way where you could make in some cases it's a generational wealth I know couple of uh Angels so this

[[15:20]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=920s)
particular uh one of the first uh interests in the company polygon uh that's an Indian blockchain uh um the first investor in it um alumni um a very well-known person in the ecosystem he has made enough to that one Angel investment that he has his own fund now like he literally like that is generational guys making story right there um so I feel like that depends on your awareness as well as your uh you know risk threshold how much you can take so

[[15:50]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=950s)
uh if you are too busy to handle anything or or to Source opportunities or don't know don't you know uh how to educate yourself from this bit probably just go with the stock market because it is made for the Masters but if you think about it man things that are usually made for the masses are just not the best things out there you know everybody says KR uh just go to detect from a random place right that's not like if

[[16:12]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=972s)
you are an artist and why not why do this what everybody is doing right why not follow your passion so I feel like general advice is almost always never good advice so stock market is like that it's made for the general people so uh somebody who don't want to hassle uh that's probably the best best uh best place to be I personally do not really deal with much in uh listed stocks because I feel like the growth is too

[[16:35]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=995s)
slow and uh you know but uh if somebody is a beginner they can be a good place to start but anyway so uh let's say maybe some discuss on uh how one can invest in mature startups right so there is something that secondary market and why they are important so this maybe you can tell something about that right so I think it's important to you mentioned secondary Market it's important to sort of uh explain what this is right so when you look at shark

[[17:06]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=1026s)
tank means almost all of our primary offerings not secondary the main difference is that uh when a company is Raising new funds they are issuing new shares so the shares come from newly shoot shared compound company they are primaries they call primaries uh if if the company is not raising new round sometimes the existing shareholders or it can be the founder uh selling or a shareholder like an employee who has esops is selling that uh you are not

[[17:31]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=1051s)
buying new issues simulations you're buying a good thing shares from somebody that is called secondly so um I feel like especially in markets like this so this is the funny story like my dad once mentioned one called me and mentioned about he likes to all talk about politics and whatnot so you mentioned that uh some Aaj Tech news maybe which was like oh in modi's government 90 of the startups are failing or going to zero something like that to me this was

[[17:53]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=1073s)
like sort of a historical use because yes no no matter whose government it is even Obama is 90 percent of will eventually fail so that's the early stage one right so but think about it if a company uh grows at a certain level let's say uh chair side right now is I don't know maybe three four billion billion dollar company right right now three four

[[18:25]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=1105s)
billion will not disappear overnight so it's a bit more safer of a deal if you want to park your money uh then investing in uh the same company I had a much earliest day so in 2015 foreign 2016 I think it was uh at that point they might have raised at like 2 million valuations so you know like uh this time it's like a thousand times more money more right so that money will not disappear overnight so hence it's a bit

[[18:56]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=1136s)
more safer deal but the upside is also limited right so four billion company will not go to 40 billion that easily so 10x is difficult but if you look at a 5 million dollar company that can easily go to one billion that can be like you know so many euros can be added to it so I feel like Securities are important because in this thresholds are low secondary deals provide people or Metro companies provide people save for opportunities to

[[19:23]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=1163s)
invest but with good good um upsides for example imagine you if you're invested in the Tesla before IPO Tesla had us like uh you know uh amazing universities have made like like ton of money so imagine getting industry before that it happened like that would be everybody almost everybody who got into zomato before if you must have made good money like but the ones who got after are you know the ones who might have lost so I feel like it is important to

[[19:50]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=1190s)
make people aware about uh sort of investing but also growth stage company because they are well suited for I would say more most people because they are safe for just like they are not as safe as Bombay Stock Exchange um you know considered National forms but they're still safer Investments and there's a good stuff to get into right right yeah so yeah I think uh as you like have you discussed about secondary market and investment to that

[[20:16]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=1216s)
so there should be some problems associated with that right so uh maybe you can just tell something on those lines see what are the problems associated with the secondary deals like uh the shareholders the ticket size and use leader and Brokers like this on those Lanes Yeah we actually have some pretty um interesting um we are bearing pretty interesting talks these days we are working on this um campaign for SpaceX um what what that means we allow so

[[20:46]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=1246s)
SpaceX is a private company like uh very well known and they launched our link and whatnot so this is in the talks for now but uh that is a company which is like um of elevation of around 140 billion like that's fairly large so a company of that scale would not worry about your money until you are investing multi-billion dollar amounts right you know the company does not worry about your small ticket sizes so if you think

[[21:13]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=1273s)
about in Indian terms salaries are much lower so even if you are an hni high Network individual in India you can let's say you're happy to invest 20 lakhs which is fairly decent ticket size as compared to like for Indian markets right even then like you could be like one of the top investors here even then nobody will really care about your 20K 20 lakh check is is this is too small for the company the company has other things to worry

[[21:37]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=1297s)
about so the entry for these investment opportunities are really like just well guarded and uh unless you know Elon Musk personally also management office personally which is almost always very hard so uh the problem with this is that companies of that scale do not want to deal with small tickets I see that's one secondly um they're all issues with let's say it's an unlisted right you cannot just download zero and find this so you need to find a seller first of all who owns

[[22:05]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=1325s)
the share and then you verify it and then you have to sell it and then you have to pay a ton of legal fees and uh it's a U.S stock so you need to hire some legal councils in the states and it is just uh an illegal cost in the states so it is just like all these riddles and even if you jump all these hoops minimum ticket size that companies deal with these days or at least investors these

[[22:27]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=1347s)
days is 100 000 US Dollars that's like almost one crore so for one investment of one crore this is like not many Indians can access that anywhere assuming you jump you somehow find a shareholder and verified it and pay all the legal fees now we do that uh we try to solve that because a little a little bit what we do is we are talking for you uh we have our community of LPS uh uh folks who are invested interested in

[[22:52]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=1372s)
investing in such companies uh now if we combine everybody that become can become a sizable chunk and we do the hard work of finding sellers negotiating and then doing the legal work and then now these people can now this process of is like uh because uh we are combining small small by small I mean 20 lakhs uh ticket sizes we are able to give these people access to the bigger deal otherwise they would not get a gag again with this kind

[[23:19]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=1399s)
of ticket size so it is more like combining the Indian Unity uh economics angle the way well I don't know the way you might the way swee let's say is able to somehow uh make delivery sustainable right something similar but in the private Market space so I feel like uh getting into companies like even poster companies it's a US company now but it's a three billion dollar company they don't want they have enough things to worry about they don't they cannot you

[[23:44]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=1424s)
cannot engage them with 50 lakhs ticket size check you know uh you need to be and then and honestly like in a lot of these companies capital is protected what it means is you they don't want you to hold shares directly because unless if you are a big ticket has invested otherwise the company has to do compliances and they don't want to add you as a party that they have to worry about every year uh for your 50 electric

[[24:04]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=1444s)
it's like you know when the companies of that too right so I feel like uh now uh essentially it's an idea um essentially it's a way where we are able to now open these doors for this big ticket size guys for this for these small ticket size guys um otherwise uh it's just not economically feasible for them to enter even if they know the founders personally those who are listening and yeah so because uh this is something that we

[[24:35]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=1475s)
because as you all know that speaks SpaceX is a company that uh look everyone is aware about these days right so they are Starling machines and all those like I personally follow each and every launch whatever they do so uh there is that uh mindset I want to invest this in these kind of companies so I think this is something that people should know about kiha we there is an option as token polio is providing that

[[25:00]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=1500s)
solution where you can pitch in and you can have that relatively small token size and you can buy their sort of shares like maybe the secondary Market but yeah you can hold some percentage over there so uh yeah Abhishek my next question is uh like as you mentioned about SpaceX and Postman right so anything else any any other brand you would like to talk about uh considering the secondary market and right so um to be honest I should have

[[25:29]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=1529s)
been a bit more extra careful about like uh these details right when we run deals we don't mention them on the website uh usually they are for um they are legal reasons as well in some cases um you know you don't want to put some confidential financials of SpaceX all these companies online like you know we we uh in some cases we have good relationship with the company and we want to maintain that of course but also

[[25:54]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=1554s)
uh these deals are for uh accredited investors only at the moment at least what that means is um you know uh people should have uh a certain level of uh like defined by an Indian government in this case a certain level of wealth to invest in these days just like how if you're not an angel listen just like how you make other sort of uh you know how you're an invest in other startups uh you need to meet those

[[26:16]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=1576s)
criteria so which is why it's not open to all yet but it is open to anybody who has investment capacity of let's say more than five lakhs or more than four lakhs which is 5K US dollars so um so these deals are not publicly mentioned we don't advertise these deals on like our website even you might not find these uh deals mentioned there we do it very closely with the community that we have or people who sign up get

[[26:38]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=1598s)
access to it um through email newsletters and whatnot um but and which is why I I'm a little bit also more careful about listing out more uh more names that we are associated with at the moment um I'm sure sooner or later we will have now as we are now getting on the capital of the companies we will have a longer relationship with them so I'm sure we'll try to open it up to broader uh folks

[[26:59]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=1619s)
there in India um but if you they are both of these companies are U.S companies so there is a common Trend that I'm seeing in Indian companies and use companies even though Postman is now your company by the way so I'm going to read it like that um I feel like Indian companies not only Indian employees are unaware of esops and how to how to deal with them I feel like Indian companies intentionally uh stop that uh like they are Indian

[[27:26]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=1646s)
companies uh if you read their ESOP policies they are not very employee friendly they are actually they they are Clause that intentionally stop people from dealing with their esops and which is so it's not the entire ecosystem needs a bit more awareness I think right so it's not just employee part that we need to fix even if an employee in India so I know I know a few folks that have that hold they like one of the early

[[27:51]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=1671s)
people in Flipkart for example and this person holds like five CR worth of your Crushers it's not a listed company yet at the moment and there's no news of IPO what not so I feel like uh and then we had a conversation and uh we had a look at ESOP policies but then the legalities were so complicated and like they were intentionally Clause inserted into it that it was stopping him um from freely transferring groceries which which is why we couldn't live or

[[28:19]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=1699s)
same same there is a case with sweetie Ola and a bunch of other companies um I feel like Indian Founders are aware of it um but on the other hand U.S companies like there's a stock difference and all the U.S companies are at a certain level where they uh offer employees enough rights to transact in their shares and even turn it into real world Indian companies make it intentionally harder so that's definitely a trend that I'm

[[28:44]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=1724s)
seeing here so although we have clients that are interested in getting out uh of their Flipkart Holdings and whatnot but uh honestly like even uh companies that I'm closely associated with like our College seniors for example they started a bunch of unicorns as well children in the country that somebody need to change and hopefully this financial awareness reaches to that level as well yeah or if you if you think about it man like I spoke to this founder um

[[29:13]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=1753s)
um the he is a founder of everyone known unicorn the delivery based unicorn has had a meeting last week they are interested in secondaries as essentially they want to liquidate they want to allow some um of their investors uh to exim but only the institutional ones right so they it's like the entire ecosystem is built to serve the um the rich guys uh not medium but it's not middle class yet so I feel like it is intentionally

[[29:42]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=1782s)
blocked for some reason um you know or the average Indian at the moment so this is something we need to definitely uh shift you know or later as India becomes a bit more financially independent and financially aware a short tanks of the country are spreading more awareness right how important it is for India specifically uh and we also know that the good present in India we have the largest section of Youth population and

[[30:13]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=1813s)
that's why uh this population needs to be financially aware on the startup ecosystem on uh the basics of Finance so I I'll just ask you this question is from my side like it just be you being from IIT kanpur so any one instant from IIT kanpur right that you feel that this trigger that triggered your mindset towards this startup role or anything like if you don't want to go towards that but any one instance from IIT

[[30:39]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=1839s)
kanpur to your college life so that basically shaped your mind somewhat so any one thing in anything right right uh so I feel like a lot of people um looking at where I came from a lot of people like especially my dad looks at it and like oh what is wrong with you that you want to give a nice paying job and whatnot so this is uh so it essentially would view this question as you know

[[31:01]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=1861s)
um what went wrong with the United Country so uh so um men um I feel like we I know what I know the the trigger point that happened in this uh journey and that was not at IIT Council back in ID I was something thinking about doing upst I'm a small town guy uh um uh you know about India and a lot of people are just UKC focused If you deny it then you do upsc so it

[[31:27]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=1887s)
wasn't that Journey at some point then I was like you know man screw this I'm gonna go make some money so I got the the landed the highest paying job uh at that point what campus had to offer so uh but then I hated that and so I think it was a good iteration that I've had that I was this was out of my head quickly that okay money doesn't matter so much so you know you should not do

[[31:47]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=1907s)
products for money by the way if if somebody is listening here somebody on on that front is listening yeah um so what with the incident that happened is I know my sister was in Delhi uh she might be in the school as well I think uh at some point she was like she was bored of her she had to give exams uh like in uh you know when you become a doctor you have to do a lot

[[32:05]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=1925s)
of exams there so at some point she's like you know why don't you do a startup like you know people like you are doing uh like building zomatoos and flipkarts and why don't you try and build uh like innovate something and that was like I don't know there was 2016 17 I think and that sort of stuck to my head like why not like there's no reason to not do it of course at least not give it a shot so I did have a

[[32:28]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=1948s)
couple of failed attempts then I built something in Germany uh so that was actually the trigger partner that got me thinking like she's right like you know you know I'm young there's not much risk to take and um even though I feel like there's no risk because I feel like when you get on this journey you learn so much that if you go back to a job you're just so much more skilled so right you know hence

[[32:49]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=1969s)
there's no even if you don't make any money for some years there's no really risk but I'd become purely I think that nothing like that happened but the story of sheets are definitely stuck to my head uh in this case uh for people who have been around that time so foreign entry to college so 2015 uh I think I think 2014 grad and um and then I was 2016. so a lot of people are closing on

[[33:15]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=1995s)
him and then okay credit came which is also a very large area yeah so I feel like that's some story uh for people who were in the campus at that time uh like I worked with foreign

[[34:04]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=2044s)
like somebody need to open people's mind like okay what is possible exactly on the journey so that was definitely a trigger point if you ask me that particular two to three years which I which you are talking about that uh why living white cell white hurting bad so we saw no car we

[[34:40]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=2080s)
as well like just uh this sounds more exciting looking back to people of course so uh so I feel like we will have one of these stories uh in the next couple of years yeah so I think we can have this talk of ID conference so cool so yeah yeah just uh I think the first I'll just try uh like we'll address the audience if you want to ask some questions you can write it in the

[[35:11]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=2111s)
chat box meanwhile Abhishek uh just like to all the qualities going folks right now in the in the call so any one piece of advice you would like to give them uh or or any more than that anything you want to share with them like anything I feel like um colleges are the best times of your life to try and build something you know uh the most successful companies that I'm aware of are looking back they were

[[35:41]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=2141s)
people who were building it in the campus and they had like you know you can have like really bad attempts you can build something uh stupid that nobody uses and then you learn so much from it then you build something amazing so for shares that's what I've already built like two to three different things that uh the company the parent company of Chad was something else before right which was used by nobody so I feel like

[[35:59]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=2159s)
those it's an important iteration to have the sooner you do it the better so you will start on this and you will fall on your Facebook shot better fall on your face when you're on campus because you have space to try out things and you know and more than that you will you need peers to build things with you know you cannot uh I feel like one of the opportunity costs that I've had that I IIT gone through was such a good place

[[36:22]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=2182s)
to find a co-founder or a business partner you can call it in simple words I feel like it's difficult to find out that level bond with and then you because you you need Beyond working you need other things now you need some Blind Faith on your partner yeah like uh you need to rely on them like when you are away for some reason they will pick up the work and keep the keep the wheel going especially when things get hard so

[[36:45]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=2205s)
I feel like those those double bonds are important to build and they are much easier to build in college because their organically just living with people in hospitals so I feel like if you are even remotely considering this do it in college one with your courses there's no pressure to make money pay your bills and whatnot it is really the like for so many reasons the best uh best times all these people that I've done that they talk about on this call

[[37:07]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=2227s)
including people like uh who builds chat or people reading maybe even companies like Postman and a lot of it daily companies came out those are the people who were working on some random stuff in campus together who tried and then built something which was useless but then they came out and then they had a uh they they hit the ball out of the park at that point so do get on this path I would say just like

[[37:31]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=2251s)
informally keep on trying stuff only keep this door open in your mind if you're in campus that those are the golden eras yeah right okay let's just keep building I think this is something that uh we can get this uh that thing that he mentioned about it and yeah so I think do you have questions like I'll just again uh just check I I think I meanwhile in the meantime when people are um adding questions I'll ask

[[38:03]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=2283s)
um I'll actually mention that when you do these things right you build your business so so much more than the conventional everybody in the campus might be adding points like oh I manage this club that club like this if you have a startup attempt in your resume you will stand out like I when I look at the people now and a lot of Founders a lot of companies I know they look for failed entrepreneurs like because people

[[38:25]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=2305s)
know that they the learnings are off the charts you know so you it's like also like when you do that even if you get nowhere at all you are in your resume and when people look at it so you are at a different level already so um you know entrepreneurial attempts are always always one of the golden things you can find right I guess yes so I'm just trying to find

[[38:56]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=2336s)
out the question uh yeah yes that was the question yeah it's uh so talking for you at the moment is for big tickets as investors by that I mean professional investors uh accredited investors in technical terms um we do accept minimum ticket size for growth level companies um the moment which is minimum at 5K for postmen and for bigger deals like basically it's like more than 20K US Dollars uh everything I spoke about for some reason

[[39:24]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=2364s)
this call was in U.S dollars uh so excuse me so I at the moment uh if you are a college student uh you don't need to play with your own money you mean you know you can still do the important part of the deals if you are interested in investing space without actually investing your own hard-earned cash or you know whatever you made let's say in internships um so we don't have any opportunities like for people to invest in 5K 10K

[[39:48]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=2388s)
rupees yet uh but hopefully in India will will build better tools for people to give give access to like some of the private Market opportunities um there is one question yeah how many years of dedication do you think is required to build a successful startup um I think man this this is similar to like how many hours of you know day preparation you did so I was about to die I have to like hold it like that for

[[40:18]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=2418s)
now um I feel like there is um it's almost always uh it's about your interest man don't do something which does not ex due to any level don't don't build startups or just cause anything else offered or the money or whatever if uh it should be ideally something I do really enjoy uh and you feel strongly about so when that happens then you don't take so many years to build something good it's like when you are

[[40:43]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=2443s)
done sir don't spend time studying and perfecting mathematics like this just comes just just uh just uh do do what you like so that's very similar to sort of like ideally you should not feel like work because there are a number of hours you need to put in the uh people I know the best Founders they are obsessed they are like they don't think about anything else right and then people might find crazy and like oh this

[[41:03]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=2463s)
guy is doesn't have a social life or whatever but I think for the right reasons you should be obsessed or not you know and you anyway need to because hurdles or so many nobody knows you your college student whatever you need to build the name for for yourself right so otherwise the hurdles are too many you will give up if it's if you see your style it does not come up which will not come up I'm sure in an early stage so uh

[[41:25]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=2485s)
don't look at ears look I don't don't think about okay how long I need to go you should when you jump in the water you should have uh at least six months um of like you know finances arranged if you live in a hostel crash in your friend zoom and like don't don't pay whatever anything uh do do those kind of things but like at least you should plan for six months uh like how do how can you survive six

[[41:48]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=2508s)
months without any money coming in you should at least have that uh um but yeah uh so don't look at years otherwise things will change you'll figure out something interesting to survive one of the six months like that's how it should go yeah really great great thank you thank you so much appreciate I think uh just uh last uh piece of advice in general any anything you would like to share right so this was as I told you before on the for the

[[42:17]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=2537s)
college folks in general whatever you think anything you would like to just uh uh after this 15 minutes of discussion maybe so uh what you would like to just tell our audience any one thing uh specific for college folks yeah because we have some audience uh who are above 30 and yeah right right I feel like um something happened with my phone excuse me this is uh do not even zoomed in I'm not used to Instagram do you

[[42:45]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=2565s)
literally use it um yeah yeah so I I think the thing I feel strongly uh you know one of the things I feel strongly about is as I mentioned um the ESOP thing so the some summary and then the one one takeaway I will when I just leave you guys with like if you are negotiating your salary offers do think about yourself like do think about it pretty hard like you know do not prefer if you have enough cash so

[[43:12]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=2592s)
like how much you need to survive a month focus more on esops why one because Ace of solid cheap for companies to give out and if you're sitting with a manager he might not have the authority or he might not be able to give you 25 000 uh raise per month but you might be able to give you one like because that's not coming out of their own pocket the company funds are still in that but

[[43:32]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=2612s)
that's real money for you and not only real money that this is money that this is an appreciating asset you might get uh like in the long run they compound really nicely especially if it's a company as good as uh this is an opportunity like why worry about investing into public markets like oh hey I'm not investing into you know Tata Motors or whatnot like just just stop thinking about all that I should be investing this is you investing if

[[44:00]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=2640s)
you're holding esops now um so I feel like change the negotiating negotiation strategies a little bit and uh because most people don't do it like maybe managers are also comfortable because nobody really like strike that heavy on esops right so do you think about that pretty actively uh so now later when company responds you'll be surprised um when when the cash flow day comes or if you have vehicles like in this case when we work with uh some companies at

[[44:28]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=2668s)
least for some companies we are able to help people get some liquidity uh uh hopefully they will be more like us in the market in the next phase where esops are just an additional asset just like how gold is just like how you know listed Shares are so one piece of advice um TTS as real wealth because something is something you earned by working all these days and night so why not why not uh why not look at look at this as your

[[44:53]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=2693s)
world right okay yeah thank you thank you so much Abhishek thank you so much for joining and I hope all the audience would have enjoyed this live session so again thank you so much all the people who joined this live session and yeah I think you had it uh so you enjoyed this live and I hope uh what's what's your opinion make anything uh how you felt um I'm pretty pretty interesting session man honestly like I'm not used to these

[[45:22]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=2722s)
things especially Instagram is a platform I've done Twitter spaces before where uh which is audio and it's quite quite a cool tool um to interact um and I feel like uh this is reaching uh your audience is you know I think the Right audience to talk about these things I we don't as a business we don't deal with esops and all these parts but these are pain points that we every day like every day in control I see so and honestly

[[45:45]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=2745s)
some some of these are like frustrating when I see it for example uh same company that we had one of the companies that we're dealing with we talked I talked to uh talk to a bachelor of mine who is like my uh was a graduate from IIT company working the same company for like at least more than five five years now that person is holding let's say XE sauce and then I spoke to us people who

[[46:05]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=2765s)
same company working in us and they worked for let's say two years much less than what this person is working with and those people are holding like sometime 10x sometimes 100 times more shares and like I feel like Indian people are not even aware the scales are so um like it's so off track like and I I know people who are happy with let's say 10 000 shares or esops and then there are people who are owning half a million

[[46:28]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=2788s)
pieces so I feel like if your content in this that's good there's something wrong with it but if you really look at the same way you do same work more or less uh similar profiles if you look at other side of the market I feel like it is uh Indians being still treated a little bit uh they still like this income disparity you can call it you know it's we're reaching this Gap but I feel like this this era this this

[[46:54]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=2814s)
trend has to be addressed you know and I talk to these people in the states like one of the Indian guys who just moved there and lived in San Francisco now uh but then I feel like somebody need to uh I cannot open it uh say that to these employees like hey guys literally you if you're happy with this you can have at least you can try to have or you know do better negotiations at least right so I

[[47:16]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=2836s)
feel like it is it is the decade of Indian Silicon Valley is more why like I want to bring that change here in there and you know um so I feel like this this call really like helped me um convey this part of this part of the business which is not a really honestly the commercial part of the business but I feel like this is one of the changes that I personally want to bring uh not

[[47:44]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=2864s)
coming back to India very you know nationalistic about it like yeah let's let's kill it and there are people like uh zero the founders like written Commerce and all that they are highly like people are the same mindset then people are uh suggesting Indians not move out you know and because of the upcoming growth and also I I I believe in those uh I do believe in that narrative as well uh and that's one of the most smartest like one of the

[[48:09]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=2889s)
smartest folks out there so they also should deserve some of the best um education as well as opportunities so yeah I think this call was helpful for that great great time personally also for me it was quite insightful and yeah definitely our audience would have loved this session I know it wasn't sure so great thank you so much everything will wrap up the live and let's connect more in future and yeah again thank you so much for joining

[[48:35]](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2flvLEhoZrA&ra=m&t=2915s)
me like that thank you very much guys for having me and uh great initiative you are uh taking with um with financial model and let me know happy to support in any way I can definitely definitely yeah thank you so much