Meta CEO Weighs In on AI Safety Debate

0:05 >> "BLOOMBERG TECH" IS LIVE FROM THE HEART OF SILICON VALLEY. WITH ED LUDLOW IN SAN FRANCISCO. ED: THIS IS "BLOOMBERG TECH." COMING UP MARK ZUCKERBERG WEIGHS IN ON THE GLOBAL A.I. SAFETY DEBATE AND SAYS A.I. LABS SHOULD RELY ON INDEPENDENT EVALUATORS AND ADVISORS TO ENSURE MODELS ARE SAFE. PLUS OPENAI COULD BE LOOKING TO RAISE MORE MONEY BEFORE IT HEADS TO THE PUBLIC MARKETS. A NEW FUNDING ROUND COULD VALUE IT AT MORE THAN $1.2 TRILLION. IMPULSE SPACE ANNOUNCES A $308 MILLION SERIES THE EXTENSION WE SPEAK WITH THE C.E.O. LATER. OUR TOP STORY, MARK ZUCKERBERG HAS WEIGHED IN. HE SAID A.I. LABS SHOULD RELY ON INDEPENDENT EVALUATORS AND ADVISORS TO ENSURE THAT MODEL ARE SAFE RATHER THAN FORCING AN INDUSTRY-WIDE SLOWDOWN.

0:55 I WROTE ON X THAT THE COMPANY HAD DELAYED THE RELEASE OF ITS LATEST A.I. TOOL MUSE FOR SEVERAL MONTHS TO ENSURE IT WAS SAFE. BLOOMBERG’S RILEY GRIFFIN WHO LEADS OUR COVERAGE AT META IS WITH US. VERY SIMPLY MARK ZUCKERBERG IS SAYING THIS IS FOR EACH LAB TO DO ITSELF, JUST GET ON WITH IT. GO THROUGH THE POST. >> YEAH, THE MOST NOTABLE THING ABOUT THE POST TO ME IS HE IS THROWING A LITTLE BIT OF SHADE AT HIS COMPETITORS HERE WITH THE TWEET THAT WE HAVE ON THE SCREEN.

1:23 HE EFFECTIVELY HAS SAID WE DID A SLOWDOWN. WE DID IT INTERNALLY. WE DIDN’T RAISE A KERFUFFLE ABOUT IT AND DIDN’T CALL ON OUR PEERS TO SLOW DOWN TOO. META IS CALLING ON INDEPENDENT EVALUATION, BUT IT’S NOT SAYING HEY, RIGHT NOW WE ARE GOING TO SLOW DOWN AFTER THESE CALLS. ED: IT’S LIKE CAMPS ARE EMERGING. DARIO AMODEI AND HIS ANTHROPIC ON SATURDAY SAID WE THINK INDEPENDENT EVALUATION IS IMPORTANT, BUT WHERE ZUCKERBERG DISAGREES WITH AMODEI IS THERE DOESN’T NEED TO BE THIS COALITION OF THE FRONTIER LABS TOGETHER.

2:01 YOU TALKED ABOUT SAFETY AT META WITH MCCORMICK. EXPLAIN WHO SHE IS BUT ALSO HER ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION. >> ON MONDAY I SPOKE WITH DINA AT META’S HEADQUARTERS, SHE’S THE PRESIDENT OF THE COMPANY, SOMEONE WHO CAME IN EARLIER THIS YEAR FROM THE BOARD. SHE IS PLAYING A REALLY SWEEPING ROLE WITH HER HANDS ALL OVER THE A.I. STORY, AND IN THIS CASE SHE SAID THAT SAFETY SHOULD BE BAKED IN FROM THE BOTTOM UP. IT SHOULD BE A PART OF THE PROCESS DAY TO DAY. AGAIN IT’S A POLITE WAY OF SAYING WE ARE NOT GOING TO COMMIT TO SLOWING DOWN RIGHT NOW. WE THINK THIS IS PART OF OUR PROCESS. ED: SHE IS IN THE JENSEN HUANG CAMP, WHICH IS SAFETY IS AN ENGINEERING PROBLEM, RIGHT?

2:42 IT’S FOR THE COMPANIES THEMSELVES TO SAY IF WE ARE GOOD AT A.I., WE SHOULD MAKE SURE IT’S SAFE. THAT CONVERSATION IS INTERESTING. THE QUESTION I ASK MYSELF IS, IS MCCORMICK THE PRESENT DAY CHERYL SANDBERG? HOW DOES MARK ZUCKERBERG RELY ON HER AS THE FACE OF THE COMPANY? >> I THINK IT’S A COMPARISON THAT’S MADE OFTEN BECAUSE OF THEIR BACKGROUNDS IN WASHINGTON, THEIR CONNECTIONS TO THE FINANCIAL SECTOR, THEIR FOCUS ON MENTORSHIP. ED: SHE WAS IT’S A GOLDMAN SACHS.

3:13 >> CORRECT. SANDBERG NOTABLY HAD MORE CONNECTIONS TO THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY, BUT IN THIS CASE THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE. CHERYL GREW THE COMPANY FROM SOMETHING SMALL TO WHAT IT IS NOW. DENA IS COMING INTO A COMPANY TRYING TO SMOOTH OUT ITS ROUGH EDGES. THEY HAVE A LOT OF CHALLENGES AHEAD PARTICULARLY WHEN IT COMES TO THE A.I. BACKLASH, FOCUS ON DATA CENTERS, AND SHE’S BOTH HELPING TO CLINCH DEALS AND RETELL THAT A.I. STORY. ED: THOSE DEALS AND THAT FOCUS ON DATA CENTERS, META IS MASSIVELY COMMITTED TO SPENDING ON COMPUTE.

3:49 AND READING YOUR REPORTING AND THE STATEMENTS FROM META, MCCORMICK IS OVERSEEING ALL FACETS OF THAT, RIGHT? IT’S A REALLY BIG PORTFOLIO FOR HER. >> SHE’S EVERYONE ALL AT ONCE AND NOT ONLY IS SHE WORKING ON COMPUTE. SOMETHING THAT EMERGED, SHE WAS CRITICAL TO THE UP TO $18 BILLION SETTLEMENT WITH THE STATE ATTORNEYS GENERAL. THAT’S SEPARATE FROM THE COMPUTE STORY. BUT SHE IS A RIGHT HAND TO MARK ZUCKERBERG. SHE HAS EARNED HIS TRUST. SHE LEFT OUR INTERVIEW TO GO HAVE DINNER AT HIS HOUSE AFTER FOUR HOURS OF CONVERSATION THAT VERY DAY. SO SHE’S VERY INVOLVED.

4:23 C.J. MAHONEY, WHO IS THE CHIEF LEGAL OFFICER, SAID SHE’S THE LAST PERSON CONSULTED ON EVERY DECISION. SO IT’S NOTABLE THAT SHE HAS RISEN TO THIS LEVEL IN SUCH A SHORT AMOUNT OF TIME. ED: THERE’S TWO STORIES HERE. MARK ZUCKERBERG WEIGHING IN, IN THE LAST 24 HOURS ON THE A.I. SAFETY ENVIRONMENT AND RILEY’S CONVERSATION WITH MCCORMICK AND HER PROFILE OF HER, GO AND READ THAT ON ALL BLOOMBERG PLATFORMS. STICKING WITH A.I., OPENAI COULD BE LOOKING IT RAISE MORE MONEY BEFORE IT HEADS TO THE PUBLIC MARKETS. THE CHATGPT MAKER IS SAID TO BE IN EARLY TALKS WITH INVESTORS ABOUT A NEW FUNDING ROUND THAT COULD VALUE IT AT MORE THAN $1.2 TRILLION.

5:07 THAT’S ACCORDING TO A BLOOMBERG SOURCE. LET’S BE VERY CLEAR HERE. THIS SOUNDS LIKE THIS WAS AN INVESTOR POOL APPROACH AT OPENAI AND SAYING SHOULD WE DO THIS? THIS SOUNDS LIKE A GOOD IDEA. BUT THAT $1.2 TRILLION VALUATION, WHAT WOULD THAT REPRESENT RELATIVE TO OPENAI’S LAST PRIVATE VALUATION? >> THAT’S RIGHT. SO IT WOULD BE A JUMP. OPENAI’S LAST PRIVATE MARKET VALUATION WAS I BELIEVE OVER $750 BILLION. I DON’T REMEMBER OFF HAND THE EXACT NUMBER. BUT IT WOULD BE POTENTIALLY A BIG JUMP FOR IT, BUT NOT AS BIG AS POTENTIALLY SOME OF THE NUMBERS BEING FLOATED FOR ANTHROPIC’S PUBLIC LISTING, EXPECTED PUBLIC LISTING COMING UP SOON.

5:47 SO IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE IF THIS ROUND HAPPENS HOW IT PRICES. ED: THERE ARE SOME OTHER REPORTS OUT THERE THAT EVALUATION COULD BE EVEN HIGHER. I THINK WE LOSE SIGHT OF THE BASICS. REMINDS US WHERE OPENAI AND ANTHROPIC ACTUALLY SIT IN THEIR PATH TO THE PUBLIC MARKETS. WE ALL ASSUME THAT IT WILL HAPPEN EVENTUALLY. BUT RIGHT NOW, THEY FILE CONFIDENTIALLY AND WE ARE WAITING. >> THAT’S RIGHT. SO THERE’S BEEN ALL THIS TALK IN THE A.I. INDUSTRY ABOUT A POTENTIAL SLOWDOWN AND ALL THIS IMMENSE ANXIETY ABOUT THE RISKS OF A.I.

6:21 RIGHT NOW. HOWEVER, WE DON’T SEE ANY SIGNS SO FAR OF ANTHROPIC’S EXPECTED I.P.O. SLOWING DOWN, AND IT’S SORT OF FROM THE OUTSIDE STILL SEEMS LIKE FULL SPEED AHEAD HERE. AT THE SAME TIME, THEY’RE HAVING CONVERSATIONS ABOUT MAYBE HAVING EXTERNAL AUDITORS AS YOU WERE MENTIONING EARLIER ON YOUR SHOW. BUT WE ARE STILL VERY MUCH EXPECTING AND WAITING FOR ANTHROPIC TO MOVE FORWARD WITH ITS S-1 IN THE COMING DAYS AND WEEKS. ED: SO COMPARE AND CONTRAST, SALT ALTMAN GAVE ANKER INTERVIEW THIS PAST WEEK AND IT LOOKS LIKE THE I.P.O. WILL HAPPEN NEXT YEAR AT SOME POINT BUT HE CITED THE CURRENT ENVIRONMENT. WHAT DID HE SAY?

7:05 >> THAT’S RIGHT. SO OPENAI’S TAKING OR SAM ALTMAN HAS MADE A STATEMENT THAT WE ARE SEEING WITH SOME OTHERS AND THAT HE HAS SAYING THAT THE I.P.O. COULD BE DELAYED OR WRARY IT WOULD BE A STRANGE TIME OR MOMENT FOR HIS COMPANY TO GO PUBLIC RIGHT NOW. THAT BEING SAID, AS WE REPORTED, OPENAI HAS BEEN CONSIDERING NOT GOING PUBLIC THIS YEAR, PUSHING IT TO 2027 PREDATING THIS CURRENT WAVE OF A.I. ANXIETY. SO OUR REPORTING INDICATES THAT THAT IS CERTAINLY NOT THE ONLY FACTOR OR THE MAIN TACTOR -- FACTOR HERE.

7:41 THAT BEING SAID, YES, IT IS SORT OF A DISSONANCE TO BE CERTAINLY HAVING CONVERSATIONS ABOUT ALL OF THIS A.I. ANXIETY AT THE SAME TIME AS SOME OF THE MOST HIGHLY VALUED PRIVATE COMPANIES EVER ARE PREPARING TO GO PUBLIC. ED: THE AUTHOR OF THE BLOOMBERG NEWSLETTER WHICH I HIGHLY RECOMMEND YOU SUBSCRIBE TO. ANOTHER STORY IN SEMICONDUCTORS. SO SHARES OF SK HYNIX AND INTEL, THE U.S. LISTED A.D.R.’S OF SK HYNIX BOTH HIGHER, MARKEDLY HIGHER IN INTEL’S CASE. SK HYNIX SAYS IT IS EXPLORING OPTIONS TO BOOST ITS GLOBAL COMPETITIVENESS.

8:16 THAT’S AFTER A REPORT SAID IT COULD BE TEAMING UP WITH INTEL TO MAKE CHIPS IN THE UNITED STATES. THE MEMORY CHIPMAKER SAID NO DECISION HAS BEEN MADE AND NOTHING HAS BEEN FINALIZED, BUT ON THAT INITIAL REPORT AND S.K. COMING OUT WITH THAT STATEMENT, BOAT BOTH STOCKS CONTINUE TO BE HIGHER 90 MINUTES INTO THE U.S. SESSION. COMING UP ON PROGRAM, THE CRYPTO INDUSTRY GETS DEALT A MAJOR BLOW IN THE SENATE. WE HAVE A CONVERSATION ABOUT A PRETTY ABRUPT STOP TO SOME KEY LEGISLATION. THAT’S NEXT.

8:45 THIS IS "BLOOMBERG TECH." ♪ ED: SENATORS FROM BOTH PARTIES BLOCKED A LANDMARK DIGITAL ASSET MARKET STRUCTURE BILL IN A PROCEDURAL VOTE SENDING CRYPTO STOCKS TUMBLING SO THIS BILL WOULD HAVE HANDED THE CFTC THE PRIMARY AUTHORITY TO REGULATE THE DIGITAL ASSETS INDUSTRY, BUT IT FAILED TO ADVANCE WITH A VOTE OF 49-50.

9:23 A MAJOR BLOW FOR CRYPTO INDUSTRY PLAYERS. HERE TO DISCUSS IT, A D.C. BASED NONPROFIT DEDICATED TO A PRO-ENVIRONMENT FOR THE DIGITAL ECONOMY. WHETHER THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION WAS PRO-INNOVATION OR NOT, RIGHT NOW IT’S NOT PROCEEDING. ON BEHALF OF THE INDUSTRY, SUMMARIZE YOUR RESPONSE TO HOW OR NOT HOW THIS HAS PASSED THROUGH CONGRESS. >> YEAH, LEGISLATION IS RARELY A LINEAR PROCESS.

9:56 YOU ARE ALWAYS GOING TO HAVE TWO STEPS FORWARD, THREE STEPS BACK. THAT’S NOT UNUSUAL AT ALL. SO I DON’T SEE IT AS A MAJOR BLOW. THIS ISN’T OVER. THERE WAS A PROCEDURAL STEP TAKEN SO THIS BILL COULD POTENTIALLY COME ON THE FLOOR. AND WE HAVE GOT A LOT OF GREAT THINGS GOING ON AT THE S.E.C. AND CFTC. WE ARE GOING TO GET CLARITY FOR THIS INDUSTRY. ED: THIS IS WHY THE MARKET REACTION IS SO INTERESTING, THE MARKET REACTION BEING TO THE DOWN SIDE.

10:25 THE CLARITY ACT WOULD BASICALLY EMPOWER THE CFTC, BUT IF YOU READ BLOOMBERG’S REPORTING, WHAT HAPPENS NEXT IS THAT IT GOES BACK INTO THE HANDS OF THE REGULATORS ANYWAY. BOTH THE CFTC AND S.E.C. TO MAKE RULES. WHY IS THAT BEING PERCEIVED THROUGH THE MARKETS AS A NEGATIVE THING? SUMMER: WELL, I THINK ANYTIME YOU ARE DEALING WITH JUST USING THE REGULATORY PROCESS VERSUS HAVING SOMETHING IN LAW, IT’S A LITTLE BIT LESS DURABLE. THAT’S NOT TO SAY THAT THEY CAN’T COME UP WITH A FRAMEWORK.

10:59 THE S.E.C. AND CFTC HAVE BEEN WORKING ON SOME WAYS TO DO THAT, SO I THINK WE ARE GOING TO GET THE FRAMEWORK THAT WE NEED, BUT IT IS ALWAYS DIFFICULT TO RECOGNIZE HOW DOES THIS LAST ACROSS FUTURE ADMINISTRATIONS? I DO THINK THAT THERE ARE WAYS TO DO IT AND I AM CONFIDENT THAT THEY’RE HEADED IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. ED: WE ARE SHOWING THE MEMBERS OF YOUR ASSOCIATION, BY THE WAY, KRAKEN, COINBASE, CIRCLE. DID THEY WANT THE CLARITY ACT TO PASS? SUMMER: YES. WE STILL WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT PASS. I DON’T THINK ANYONE IS GIVING UP YET. BUT AGAIN, WE CAN’T WAIT FOR THIS TO HAPPEN. DIGITAL ASSET USERS DESERVE SOME PROTECTIONS THAT WERE GOING TO BE IN THIS BILL THAT ARE NOT IN PLACE YET. SO USING THE REGULATORY EFFORTS TO DO SO I THINK IS IMPORTANT. WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE DON’T HAVE ANOTHER F.T.X. SITUATION.

11:58 YOU NEVER WANT CONGRESS TO LEGISLATE IN A CRISIS, SO WE WILL WORK CLOSELY WITH THE REGULATORS, BUT ALSO WE ARE NOT GIVING UP ON CONGRESS. AGAIN, THESE ARE SETBACKS. THEY’RE NOT UNUSUAL, AND SOMETHING THAT I HAVE SEEN MANY, MANY TIMES IN MY MANY YEARS ON CAPITOL HILL. ED: I APPRECIATE THAT. I WOULD SAY IT’S BEEN A SLOW MARCH, BECAUSE I THINK ODDS OF THIS BILL PASSING OVER QUITE A LONG PERIOD OF TIME HAVE BEEN COMING DOWN.

12:28 RIGHT NOW, THERE IS JUST ABSOLUTE FOCUS ON ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE. HOW MUCH DOES THAT SORT OF UNIVERSAL ATTENTION ON ONE FIELD HELP OR NOT HELP YOUR INDUSTRY? WHEN THEY’RE TRYING TO MAKE REGULATORY PROGRESS LIKE THIS. SUMMER: A.I. AND CRYPTO ACTUALLY DO -- THEY’RE VERY MUCH HAND IN HAND. I THINK WE WILL SEE A LOT OF KIND OF INTERSECTION OF THE TWO INDUSTRIES, SO THE FACT THAT TODAY YOU ARE HEARING A LOT ABOUT A.I. AND LESS ABOUT CRYPTO, THAT DOESN’T NECESSARILY MEAN THAT PEOPLE HAVE MOVED ON.

13:07 I THINK THAT WE ARE GOING TO BE PART OF THE A.I. CONVERSATION AND HOW THAT IS HANDLED GOING FORWARD, AND AGAIN, WE HAVE TO KEEP PUSHING FORWARD ON SOME SORT OF CRYPT 0 REGULATORY FRAMEWORK BECAUSE THE STATUS QUO DOESN’T WORK. ED: SO THE INTERESTING POLITICAL DISCUSSION HERE IS THAT THE CLARITY ACT WAS INTENDED TO OUTLIVE THE ADMINISTRATION OF THE DAY, HAVE RULES FOR PERMANENCY. SO IF THE RULE MAKING GOES BACK TO THE REGULATORS, THAT WOULD LEAVE THOSE RULES SUBJECT TO AMENDMENT BY THE ADMINISTRATION OF THE DAY. HOW MUCH WAS THIS THE MOMENT UNDER THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, LIKE PERCEIVED AS OPEN-MINDED, FRIENDLY TOWARDS YOUR INDUSTRY? SUMMER: YEAH, I THINK IT’S IMPORTANT THAT WE HAVE THIS ADMINISTRATION THAT IS THIS LOCKED IN ON HAVING THE U.S.

14:00 BE THE CRYPTO CAPITAL OF THE WORLD AND THAT DOES GIVE US FLEXIBILITY TO WORK WITH THE LEG LATORS -- REGULATORS TO GET SOME RULES IN PLACE THAT, YOU KNOW, IT’S NOT LAW, BUT YOU CAN GET THINGS PUT IN PLACE THAT HELP THE MARKETS, THAT’S REALLY DIFFICULT TO UNWIND. PEOPLE DON’T WIND TO UNWIND IT AFTER A NEW ADMINISTRATION COMES IN BECAUSE IF YOU HAVE CONSUMER PROTECTIONS, WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO TAKE THOSE AWAY FROM THE MARKET? ED: SUMMER MERSINGER BACK ON THE SHOW, REALLY GREAT TO HAVE YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

14:31 A QUICK PIECE OF NEWS. TWO FORMER ROBINHOOD EMPLOYEES WERE CHARGED BY U.S. PROSECUTORS WITH FRAUD FOR ALLEGEDLY USING CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION TO TRADE CRYPTO-LINKED FUTURES. TWO STAFFERS ALLEGEDLY MADE MORE THAN $50,000 EACH FROM THEIR TRADE. A SPOKESPERSON SAYS THE COMPANY HAS ZERO TOLERANCE FOR INSIDER TRADING AND HAS "ROBUST INSIDER TRADING POLICIES AND PROCEDURES IN PLACE." COMING UP, WE WILL GO TO SPACE AND SPEAK WITH TOM MILLER. THE COMPANY EXTENDING ITS SERIES D BY ABOUT $308 MILLION. ALSO HIRING A C.F.O., INTERESTING. WHAT HAPPENS NEXT? THIS IS "BLOOMBERG TECH."

15:14 ♪ ED: THERE IS AN EXTENSION TO ITS SERIES D RAMP BRINGING ITS TOTAL COMBINED TO $80 MILLION. THE COMPANY ANNOUNCED THAT IT’S APPOINTING ITS FIRST C.F.O. ADAM TOWNSEND WHO IS JOINING, HERE WITH MORE IS IMPULSE SPACE C.E.O. I HAVE BEEN WHERE YOU ARE SITTING NOW. I’VE BEEN THROUGH THE FACILITY WITH YOU. I THINK WE START WITH WHY EXTEND THE SERIES D? I KNOW YOU WANT TO GET MOVING.

15:56 DID YOU NEED MORE CAPITAL? >> YEAH, WE DID. THIS SHOWS HOW MUCH OUR CUSTOMERS AND OUR INVESTORS LIKE WHAT WE ARE DOING. WE DO IN SPACE MOVING THINGS AROUND IN SPACE AND OUT BEYOND EARTH. SO WE ARE SEEING A LOT OF DEMAND FROM OUR CUSTOMERS AND CERTAINLY A LOT OF EXCITEMENT FROM OUR INVESTORS. ED: TOM, I APPRECIATE YOU HAVE LIKE A HIGH DEGREE OF COMPETENCE IN YOUR OWN RIGHT IN THE DOMAIN YOU ARE FOCUSED ON, BUT I DO WANT TO UNDERSTAND HOW POST-SPACEX I.P.O.

16:30 INTEREST HAS CHANGED IN YOUR COMPANY, IN YOUR WORK, THE APPETITE OF VENTURE CAPITAL IN PARTICULAR TO BACK A COMPANY LIKE IMPULSE SPACE. TOM: CERTAINLY WE ARE SEEING A LOT OF EXCITEMENT IN SPACE. A.I. IS THE BIG TECHNOLOGY RIGHT NOW, AND WITH -- ON OUR DATA CENTERS, WE NOW SEE SPACE COMBINING WITH A.I. SO IT’S JUST REALLY ENERGIZING THE INDUSTRY. AND ALSO I THINK WHAT WE ARE DOING, MOBILITY IS SOMETHING THAT’S REALLY NEEDED BY COMMERCIAL CUSTOMERS. NASA AND CERTAINLY, YOU KNOW, BY THE GOVERNMENT. SO IN ALL THOSE SECTORS WE ARE SEEING LOT OF DEMAND FOR OUR PRODUCTS. ED: WE ARE TALKING ABOUT AND SHOWING SPACE TUGS LIKE FOR THE COMPLETELY UNINITIATED. THOSE OF US THAT HAVEN’T BEEN TO SPACE, I APPRECIATE THIS MOST. WHAT IS A SPACE TUG? WHY IS THAT A CRITICAL COG IN THE SPACE ECOSYSTEM? TOM: THAT IMAGE YOU HAVE RIGHT NOW, THAT’S HELIOS, THE ROCKET THAT BROUGHT THESE UP TO ORBIT AND YOU CAN SEE THE SPACE TUGS, THAT MIRROR SPACECRAFT THAT ARE UNDOCKING FROM THAT AND GOING TO THEIR ORBIT. SO IT’S A SATELLITE, LIKE THAT RIGHT THERE, THAT HAS POWER SYSTEMS, CARRIES PAYLOAD BUT MAINLY WHAT MAKES IT A SPACE TUG IS IT HAS A VERY -- VERY POWERFUL PROPULSION SYSTEM, A LOT OF THRUSTERS SO IT CAN MOVE PRECISELY IN SPACE. IT CAN MOVE WITHIN AN ORBIT OR CHANGE ORBITS. ED: SO WHO THEN ARE YOUR CUSTOMERS?

18:14 WHO NEEDS THE SPACE TUG? TOM: FOR THE MIRA HAS BEEN SPACE FORCE. WE HAVE THREE OF THOSE FLYING. WE DID A FLY BY BETWEEN OUR LEO TWO AND THREE MISSIONS. THEY GOT WITHIN 200 METERS OF EACH OTHER. WE -- THOSE PREVIOUS FLIGHTS WERE MOSTLY COMMERCIAL AND DEMO FLIGHTS FOR US AND GOING FORWARD WE HAVE MOSTLY GOVERNMENT FLIGHTS. ALTHOUGH WE DO HAVE ANOTHER COMMERCIAL ONE GOING UP LATER THIS YEAR AND THEN WE HAVE -- WHEN HELIOS FLIES FOR THE FIRST TIME NEXT YEARING WE HAVE ANOTHER ONE GO INTO ORBIT. IT’S ANOTHER ONE OF GOVERNMENT AND COMMERCIAL. ED: WHEN WE SAY FLIES, WHICH LAUNCH SYSTEM ARE WE TALKING ABOUT? SPACEX, RIGHT?

19:01 AND PRINCIPALLY FALCON NINE? TOM: YEAH, EVERYTHING WE BOOKED FOR THE MOST PARTS RIGHT NOW THAT’S FLYING SOON IS ON FALCON NINE. WE WILL ALSO BE FLYING ON OTHERS IN THE FUTURE. ED: SO THOSE OTHERS ARE INTERESTING. THERE’S BEEN A LOT OF DEBATE AND REPORTING ABOUT HOW SPACEX OF WHICH YOU ARE AN ALUMNI -- TOM: YES. ED: TRANSITIONINGS THE FALCON NINE PROGRAM TO STARSHIP. THERE ARE REPORTS BEYOND 2029 SPACEX HAS STOPPED TAKING ORDERS ON FALCON NINE. WHAT IS YOUR EXPERIENCE OF THAT TO BE ABLE TO GET RELIABLE LAUNCH OVER THAT KIND OF LONGER TIME HORIZON? TOM: YEAH, FORTUNATELY FOR US, WE ARE ALREADY BOOKED ON FALCON NINE OUT THROUGH THAT DATE.

19:46 AND THEN A LOT OF OUR CUSTOMERS ARE -- SORRY, OUR GOVERNMENT CUSTOMERS ARE BOOKED. WE ARE MOSTLY COVERED THROUGH THE NEXT FEW YEARS AND THEN I THINK THIS IS A HUGE OPPORTUNITY FOR ALL THE NEW OTHER LAUNCH VEHICLES TO STEP UP. WE HAVE A FEW THAT HAVE FLOWN FOR THE FIR TIME IN THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS. SEVERAL WILL FLY FOR THE FIRST TIME IN THE COMING YEAR, SO THERE’S A LOT OF DEMAND AND I THINK THERE’S GOING TO BE A LOT OF SUPPLY. ED: YOU HAVE ALSO HIRED YOUR FIRST C.F.O. I DON’T KNOW, WERE YOU DOING THE PENCIL PUSHING ON THE SPREADSHEETS UNTIL THIS POINT, TOM? HOW MUCH -- GO AHEAD. TELL ME WHAT THE THINKING BEHIND THIS. TOM: I HAVE BEEN MOSTLY FUNCTIONING IN THE C.T.O. WITH MR. ROMO WHO HAS BEEN DOING MOST OF THE -- HELPING WITH THE FINANCIAL STUFF AND NOW THAT WE HAVE GOT SO MUCH CUSTOMERS AND REALLY SO MUCH CAPITAL TO MANAGE, WE JUST -- IT WAS TIME FOR A SEA LEVEL OFFICER SO WE WERE VERY LUCKY IT IT FIND -- TO FIND ADAM, THE GUY IS REMARKABLE, PERFECT FIT FOR US.

20:55 IT REALLY WORKED OUT, GREAT TIME. ED: JUST FROM A PURE FOUNDER PERSPECTIVE, IS IMPULSE BEING A PUBLIC COMPANY ONE DAY AN AMBITION FOR YOU, TOM? TOM: WE WILL SEE. YEAH, IT COULD HAPPEN. NOT SOMETHING WE ARE REALLY FOCUSED ON RIGHT NOW. RIGHT NOW WE ARE TRYING TO BUILD UP OUR CAPABILITIES. ED: CAN WE JUST TALK -- TO END THE CONVERSATION ABOUT BUILDING. YOU AND I HAVE GONE OVER THIS IN THE PAST, THIS IDEA YOU ARE PART OF THE EEK SYSTEM IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA WHERE THERE IS A CONCENTRATION OF TALENT. THERE IS THE RIPPLE EFFECT OF SPACEX COMING OUT OF HAWTHORNE. TALK ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT RIGHT NOW AND LET’S END ON HOW IT’S GOING. TOM: YEAH, THERE’S A LOT OF FOUNDERS OF NEW COMPANIES LIKE MINE THAT WERE AT SPACEX OR HAVE A LOT OF KEY EMPLOYEES THAT WERE AT SPACEX THAT HAVE JOINED. AND IT’S JUST I THINK REALLY IF YOU THINK ABOUT SILICON VALLEY AS DOING SOFTWARE, THINK ABOUT L.A. AS DOING HARDWARE. SO WE ARE MAKING PARTS HERE.

21:58 WE ARE MAKING SPACECRAFT, DRONES, MAKING NUCLEAR REACTSORS. THERE’S ALL KINDS OF THINGS GOING ON A FEW MILES FROM WHERE I AM AT. ED: TOM MUELLER BACK ON "BLOOMBERG TECH" EXTENDING THE SERIES D TO $808 MILLION. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. WE WILL CONTINUE TALKING ABOUT HARDWARE. THE NEXT GENERATION OF HUMANOID FROM AGILITY IS GETTING CLOSER TO HUMANS. LITERALLY. WE WILL TALK ABOUT DIGIT FIVE AND SPEAK TO AGILITY C.E.O. PEGGY JOHNSON.

22:30 HALFTIME HERE IN BEAUTIFUL CITY OF SAN FRANCISCO. THIS IS "BLOOMBERG TECH." ♪ ED: WELCOME BACK TO "BLOOMBERG TECH." THE A.I. SAFETY DEBATE IS HEATING UP IN WASHINGTON.

23:01 ANTHROPIC MET WITH SENIOR TRUMP OFFICIALS YESTERDAY AS LEADING A.I. COMPANIES DISCUSS WORKING TOGETHER ON SAFEGUARDS. SMALLER RIVALS WARN NEW RULES COULD MAKE IT HARDER TO COMPETE AND GOSH, SPARE US A THOUGHT FOR THE VENTURE CAPITALISTS. THEY MUST BE A LITTLE WORRIED. THEY JOIN US NOW. NATASHA, YOU HAVE DONE WHAT YOU ALWAYS DO WHICH IS GO OUT TO INDUSTRY AND SAY WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT WHAT IS GOING ON HERE, RIGHT? IF YOU THINK ABOUT ANTHROPIC AND OPENAI IN PRIVATE MARKETS, SAY META IN THE PUBLIC MARKETS, THERE ARE LOTS OF INVESTORS THAT ARE BRACING FOR WHAT THIS NET RESULTS IN, RIGHT?

23:37 >> ABSOLUTELY. I SPOKE TO OVER A DOZEN FOUNDERS IN THE FIRST 48 HOURS SINCE DARIO POSTED HIS CALL FOR A.I. PACING AND I WOULD SAY THE HEADLINE IS WE ARE WORRIED ABOUT A REGULATORY WALL EMERGING. WE ARE WORRIED THAT THE BIGGER COMPANIES ARE GOING TO SET RULES THAT US SMALL RIVALS ARE GOING TO HAVE TO FOLLOW. SO THERE IS A LOT OF FEAR ON THE INVESTOR SIDE, A LITTLE MORE OPTIMISTIC AS PER USUAL. ED: EVERYTHING IS FINE.

24:04 >> EVERYTHING IS FINE. NO CHILLING EFFECT HERE. MAYBE KEEP YOUR FUNDRAISING DOLLARS A LITTLE CLOSER TO HEART IN CASE YOU NEED TO WORK ON YOUR OWN MODELS. ED: THE U.S. GOVERNMENT IS REALLY IMPORTANT HERE. MAGGIE IN WASHINGTON, D.C., BRING US IT’S REPORTING. WE KNOW THERE HAS BEEN CONTACT BETWEEN ANTHROPIC AND U.S. OFFICIALS AT LEAST. >> YES. WE KNOW THAT GOING INTO THAT MEETING, HOWARD LUTNICK, COMMERCE SECRETARY, AND OTHERS WERE EAGER TO PUSH BACK ON ANTHROPIC ABOUT THIS IDEA, ALL OF THIS DOOM THAT HAS BEEN SPREADING AND HAS BURST ON TO THE PUBLIC SCENE. YOU SAW PRESIDENT TRUMP POST REALLY JUST A BARRAGE OF COMMENTS ON HIS TRUTH SOCIAL PLATFORM, TALKING ABOUT HOW HE DID NOT WANT TO SLOW DOWN A.I.

24:49 AND WE CAN DEFINITELY BET THAT THAT’S THE MESSAGE THAT ANTHROPIC’S TOM BROWN RECEIVED ON THAT CALL THAT WE REPORTED ON YESTERDAY. ED: NATASHA, TIMING IN THE WORLD OF SILICON VALLEY AND VENTURE CAPITAL IS EVERYTHING. THERE IS THE REPORT OUT ABOUT OPENAI CONSIDERING A PRIVATE MARKET ROUND, PRE-IPO. IS THERE ANYTHING IN THE REPORTING THAT SUGGESTS A SLOWDOWN OR A PACING AT THE FRONTIER ARE RESULTS IN REDUCED ACTIVITY, BOTH INVESTMENT AND SORT OF THE ACTIVITY OF FOUNDERS?

25:21 >> I THINK THAT WILL BE ANSWERED BY HOW SUCCESSFUL OPENAI IS IN GETTING THIS VALUATION AND IN GETTING AN ACTUAL ROUND DONE. OUR SOURCES TELL US THAT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT INVESTORS HAVE APPROACHED THE COMPANY WITH AND SO WE DON’T KNOW EXACTLY WHERE IT WILL LAND, BUT I DO THINK IT WILL DEFINITELY BE A SIGN OF WHERE ENERGY AND ACTIVITY IS. ED: MAGGIE, YESTERDAY YOU AND I PARTICIPATED IN A BLOOMBERG LIVE Q&A ON WHAT’S HAPPENING BROADLY. AND THERE IS THIS IDEA, LET’S GO BACK TO THE DAVID SAX INTERVIEW THAT THERE ARE ENOUGH PIECES OF REGULATION AND LAWS IN PLACE THAT NO MORE GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION IS NEEDED.

26:05 SUMMARIZE THAT CAMP IN THIS DEBATE. MAGGIE: THERE IS A ONE SIDE OF THE STORY HERE THAT SAYS LOOK, THESE A.I. COMPANIES ARE LIABLE FOR THE PRODUCTS THEY MAKE AND IF THEY MAKE DANGEROUS PRODUCTS, THEY’RE GOING TO BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT. ONE INTERESTING TWIST IN THIS STORY IS THAT I ALSO REPORTED YESTERDAY THAT OPENAI SAID THAT IT’S WORKING WITH ANTHROPIC AND WITH GOOGLE DEEP MIND ALREADY TO SET SAFETY STANDARDS. THEY SAID THEY ACTUALLY DON’T SEE ANY NEED FOR THE GOVERNMENT TO GET INVOLVED OR TO ISSUE ANY KIND OF ANTITRUST WAIVER FOR THE COMPANIES TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT. ED: LET’S GET MORE SPECIFICS ON THAT.

26:46 SO THIS WAS CHRIS LEHAIN DOING A BRIEFING. WHAT IS OPENAI AGREEING TO DO? MAGGIE: CHRIS LEADS GLOBAL POLICY FOR OPENAI AND HE SPOKE TO REPORTERS YESTERDAY IN WASHINGTON. SPECIFICALLY WHAT OPENAI IS SAYING IS THEY’VE AGREED TO LOOK INTO SETTING SAFETY STANDARDS. THIS IS ALONG THE TERMS OF WHAT GOOGLE’S DEEP MIND LEADER LAID OUT IN A PROPOSAL THAT COMPARED THIS TO SOMETHING LIKE THE FINANCIAL INDUSTRY. THIS WOULD BE THE COMPANIES GETTING TOGETHER AND DECIDING FOR THEMSELVES WHAT THE STANDARDS SHOULD BE AND POTENTIALLY EVEN GRADING EACH OTHER’S MODELS OR HAVING INDEPENDENT EVALUATORS DO THAT BUT RIGHT NOW IT SEEPS IT’S STILL EARLY DISCUSSIONS ABOUT THIS AMONG THOSE THREE COMPANIES. ED: THERE’S ANOTHER PARTY IN YOUR REPORTING MORE FROM MAGGIE’S WORLD, THE FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION CHAIR COMING IN.

27:40 WHAT DID THAT PART OF THIS DEBATE HAVE TO SAY? >> THAT IS THE THING THAT PEOPLE ARE STILL TRYING TO FG OUT. HOW SERIOUSLY DO WE TAKE THIS PERSPECTIVE WHEN TRYING TO YOU KNOW, DECIDE WHAT THE NEXT EVEN WEEK, MONTH, YEAR LOOKS LIKE IN TERMS OF START-UP SPEND AND HOW MUCH TO KIND OF CHANGE THE WAY WE ARE PACING OUR OWN MODELS. ED: THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT THE ANTITRUST EXEMPTION, WHICH MAGGIE, COME BACK IN HERE REAL QUICK.

28:10 ON THE ANTITRUST EXEMPTION, THIS WAS SOMETHING DARIO AMODEI HAD MENTIONED IN HIS SATURDAY ESSAY, THE ANTITRUST EXEMPTION AND THAT IS A PARTICULAR POINT THAT DAVID SAX IN HIS RESPONSE WAS LIKE ABSOLUTELY NOT. DO NOT ASK FOR THAT. COULD YOU TRY AND EXPLAIN WHAT AN ANTITRUST EXEMPTION WOULD LOOK LIKE, WHY IT WOULD BE THAT ANTHROPIC OR OTHERS WOULD ASK FOR THAT? >> I THINK THE DETAILS OF HOW EXACTLY THAT WOULD LOOK AREN’T CLEAR, BUT ANYTIME COMPANIES ARE COMING TOGETHER AND TRADING INFORMATION, THERE IS A RISK THERE.

28:39 OPENAI AND ANTHROPIC SEEM TO DIFFER ON THIS ISSUE. OPENAI THINKS THERE’S PRECEDENT FOR THIS. THERE ARE THINGS LIKE THE AIRLINE INDUSTRY. THERE ARE SOMETIMES WHEN SHARING SAFETY INFORMATION IS NOT A COMPETITION. WE SAW THE F.T.C. CHAIR SAYING HE WOULD BE SUSPICIOUS OF A WAIVER. NOW OPENAI HAS PUT FORWARD THIS PLAN THAT THEY SAY THEY COULD MOVE AHEAD WITHOUT ANY KIND OF ANTITRUST EXSHOAMENTSEN -- EXEMPTION. ED: NATASHA AND MAGGIE, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. AGILITY ROBOTICS HAS A NEW HUMANOID ROBOT AND THIS ONE IS DESIGNED TO WORK RIGHT ALONGSIDE PEOPLE. IT’S CALLED DIGIT FIVE AND IT’S MEANT TO TAKE ON JOBS LIKE LOADING MATERIALS OR INSPECTING ITEMS. WITH MORE THAN $300 MILLION IN MULTIYEAR ORDERS, AGILITY IS NOW PREPARING TO GO PUBLIC THROUGH A SPAC. C.E.O.

29:35 PEGGY JOHNSON EXPLAINS WHY. PEGGY: WE LOOKED AT ALL OF OUR OPTIONS AVAILABLE TO US AND WHETHER THAT WAS STAYING PRIVATE AND CONTINUING TO FUNDRAISE OR GOING VERSUS A STANDARD I.P.O., OR CHOOSING THE ROUTE WE ARE GOING TO THROUGH THE SPAC WHICH IS MOST EFFICIENT, QUICKEST WAY TO MARKET. WE HAVE ORDERS PENDING. WE HAVE OVER $300 MILLION OF ORDERS FOR MULTIYEAR COMMITMENTS FOR DIGIT FIVE AND WE WANTED TO ENSURE WE WERE ABLE TO DELIVER ON THOSE AS WELL AS CONTINUE TO WORK WITH THE NUMBER OF CUSTOMERS IN OUR PIPELINE. SO IT WAS REALLY ABOUT ACCELERATION, SPEED TO MARKET. BUT IT ALSO DOES GIVE US THE ABILITY TO DEFINE THE CATEGORY, BEING FIRST OUT THE DOOR, THE FIRST PURE PLAY HUMANOID TO GO PUBLIC.

30:22 WE CAN SHOW OTHER COMPANIES WHAT WILL BE NEEDED. THE HIGH SAFETY BAR, RELIABILITY, THE ABILITY TO PLUG INTO EXISTING I.T. SYSTEMS IN THESE FACILITIES, THAT ENTERPRISE HARDENING OF THE ROBOTS IS WHERE WE WILL GET TO SET SOME STANDARDS GOING FORWARD. ED: THE FIRST PURE PLAY HUMANOID ROBOTICS PUBLIC COMPANY MADE IN THE UNITED STATES. ELON MUSK MAY HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY ABOUT THAT WITH TESLA. BUT HOW CLOSELY DID YOU WATCH WHAT HAPPENED IN CHINA AND IN ASIAN CAPITAL MARKETS?

30:58 YOU KNOW, IT’S -- ON A REGULAR BASIS WE ARE COMPARING AND CONTRASTING THE PROGRESS ON HUMANOIDS HERE IN THE STATES VERSUS CHINA IN TERMS OF THE SCALE OF OUTPUT WHERE THEY’RE DEPLOYED. WHAT DO YOU TAKE FROM THAT? PEGGY: WELL, WHAT WE TAKE IS WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO DELIVER WHAT OUR CUSTOMERS NEED. WE HAVEN’T SEEN THIS TO TELL YOU THE TRUTH ACROSS THE INDUSTRY. WE HAVE A ROBOT THAT CAN LIFT 50 POUNDS OVER AND OVER AGAIN. WE HAVE HANDS THAT CAN BE REPLACED WITH DIFFERENT KINDS OF TOOLS, SWAPPABLE, AND A BATTERY THAT ALLOWS FOR THREE SHIFTS OF WORK WITH ONE ROBOT.

31:37 IT’S GOT A 10-1 RUN TO CHARGE RATIO, WHICH MEANS IT CAN RUN FOR 90 MINUTES AND QUICKLY IN NINE MINUTES HAVE THE BATTERY RECHARGE. SO IT WAS LISTENING TO OUR CUSTOMERS, UNDERSTANDING THE NEEDS AND DEPLOYING THAT FUNCTIONALITY AND DIGIT FIVE WHICH ALLOWS US TO GET PAID TO WORK. WE REALLY HAVEN’T SEEN THAT DEPLOYED ANYWHERE ELSE YET. ED: WHAT IS AGILITY GOING TO FOCUS ON FOR THE NEXT ONE TO TWO YEARS? YOU WILL GO PUBLIC BY THE SPAC BUT IN TERMS OF THE TECHNOLOGY, SCALING, WHAT’S BIG PRIORITY FOR YOU, PEGGY? PEGGY: THE BIG PRIORITY IS WITH A.I., CONTINUING TO TEACH DIGIT FIVE NEW SKILLS AND LISTENING TO OUR CUSTOMERS, WHAT THEY NEED, HOW WE CAN FILL IN ANY GAPS IN THEIR WORK FLOW IN THESE FACILITIES. SO WITH A.I. NOW, TEACHING DIGIT NEW SKILLS CAN GO MUCH MORE QUICKLY THAN IN THE PAST WHEN AN ENGINEER HAD TO PROGRAM EVERY MOVEMENT OF THE ROBOT.

32:37 SO YOU WILL SEE MORE FUNCTIONALITY, CAPABILITY FROM DIGIT FIVE IN THE NEXT FEW YEARS TO COME. ED: THAT WAS AGILITY C.E.O. PEGGY JOHNSON. COMING UP, WE ARE GOING TO STICK WITH PHYSICAL A.I. AMONG OTHER EARLY STAGE INVESTING OPPORTUNITIES. SLATER STICH JOINS US TO TALK ABOUT THE LATEST FUND TARGETING EARLY STAGE A.I. SLATER STICH FROM BAIN CAPITAL VENTURES. THIS IS "BLOOMBERG TECH." ♪ BAIN CAPITAL VENTURES HAS RAISED A $1.6 BILLION FUND TO BACK EARLY STAGE A.I. COMPANIES FOR BUILDING ON A PLAYBOOK TO ESTABLISH ITS PREVIOUS FUND 10.

33:28 SLATER STICH IS WITH US. THIS FUND IS FOR LIFE AFTER A.G.I. EXPLAIN. SLATER: THAT’S RIGHT. FIRST OF ALL, ED, GREAT TO SEE YOU, SO GOOD TO BE HERE. THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME ON THE SHOW. YOU’RE RIGHT. ONE OF THE BIG IDEAS THAT WE HAVE FOR THIS FUND IS THAT WE HAVE STORED UP THIS INCREDIBLE ABILITY WITH ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE AND WE HAVE SEEN SOME APPLICATIONS FOR IT AND SOME CASES MAY BE THE MORE OBVIOUS APPLICATIONS. BUT AS THE TECHNOLOGY GETS EVEN BETTER, WE SHOULD EXPECT AN EXPLOSION OF NEW APPLICATIONS, AND WE WANTED TO APPROACH THIS FUND WITH THE PHILOSOPHY OF REALLY THINKING ABOUT THAT HARD FROM FIRST PRINCIPLES, WHAT DOES IT MEAN LIKE WHEN WE GO THROUGH A TECHNOLOGICAL REVOLUTION AND INTELLIGENCE JUST AS PROFOUND AS ELECTRIFICATION?

34:15 WHAT WOULD IT MEAN TO SORT OF HAVE A POST-A.G.I. ECONOMY? ED: THERE ARE THREE DIFFERENT -- WELL, FOUR PROBABLY FLAVORS OF THIS. INFRASTRUCTURE, PHYSICAL A.I. WHICH CAN MEAN ROBOTICS, SECURITY, WHICH GIVEN THE EVENTS OF THE LAST SEVEN DAYS IS MASSIVELY IMPORTANT, AND ALSO SERVICES. OF THOSE FOUR, TO YOUR MIND, WHICH IS MOST PRESENT IN THE POST-A.G.I. LIFE YOU ARE ENVISAGING? SLATER: I THINK ALL OF THOSE WILL HAVE IMPORTANT ROLES TO PLAY. IT’S A QUESTION OF SEQUENCING.

34:46 IN WHAT ORDER WILL WE SEE THE DIFFERENT THINGS? ED: DO YOU SEE AN ORDER? SLATER: I THINK THINGS THAT SEEM LIKE KNOWLEDGE WORK ON A COMPUTER FLAVORED ARE GOING TO BE THE FORM FACTOR, WHERE IT’S EASIEST TO MAKE PROGRESS FASTEST. WE SORT OF KNOW HOW WE WOULD ASCEND UP THE SCALING CURVES THERE. MODELS GET MORE INTELLIGENT, EACH GENERATION. THE HARNESSES GET BETTER. THE TASK HORIZON FOR AGENTS GETS BETTER. THE TOOL USAGE, IT’S JUST EASIER TO DO THINGS IN A DIGITAL DOMAIN. SO THAT’S WHERE WE SEE IT HAPPENING FIRST. BUT OF COURSE WE ARE INCREDIBLY OPTIMISTIC ABOUT APPLICATIONS AND ROBOTICS AND PHYSICAL WORLD APPLICATIONS OVER TIME. ED: YOU GUYS TALK ABOUT LIFE AFTER A.G.I. THE DIFFICULTY IS A.G.I. IS NOT UNIVERSALLY DEFINED.

35:34 SOME WOULD SAY WE ARE AT A.G.I. I AM THINKING MORE RECENTLY ABOUT OPENAI’S RELEASE OF ASTRA AND GREG BROCKMAN IS AN EXAMPLE, SAYING THIS IS THE FIRST STEP TO TRUE A.G.I. HOW ARE YOU MEASURING IT? SLATER: ONE THING I THINK ABOUT IS IF I GAVE MY PAST SELF INFORMATION, WOULD I HAVE CALLED THIS A.G.I.? IF I WENT BACK TO HOW I THOUGHT IN 2016 OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. BY THAT MEASURE, ABSOLUTELY. I THINK IF YOU HAD TOLD ME WE WOULD BE SOLVING MILLENNIUM PROBLEMS OR BEING ABLE TO RUN THESE INCREDIBLY USEFUL LONG RUNNING AGENTS THAT WOULD HAVE SURPRISED ME AT THE TIME.

36:12 SO I WOULD SAY THAT FROM AN ECONOMIC AND ALSO EVEN FROM A SCIENTIFIC PERSPECTIVE, A LOT OF THE PROMISE WE ARE ALREADY SEEING THERE. I DO THINK A.G.I. IS ONE OF THESE TERMS THAT CAN NEVER BE FULLY DEFINED NO MATTER HOW GOOD THE SYSTEMS ARE, THERE WILL ALWAYS BE SOME NEXT THING. BUT I PERSONALLY AM MOST INTERESTED IN THE WAYS THAT WILL AFFECT THE ECONOMY AND I FEEL LIKE THE TECHNOLOGY IS ALREADY THERE TO DO SO MUCH. ED: THIS IS AN EARLY STAGE FUND, RIGHT? IT’S $1.6 BILLION TO INVEST IN THE EARLY STAGE FOR COMPANIES WHERE YOU FEEL THEY HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY IN THAT FUTURE ECONOMY.

36:48 SO IF WE TAKE PHYSICAL A.I., ROBOTICS, WHERE WOULD YOU APPLY THAT TO THE ECONOMY TODAY? WHERE ARE THE GAPS WHERE YOU THINK THIS IS RIPE FOR ROBOTICS TO BE THE SOLUTION? SLATER: I THINK THAT THE NATURE OF -- AGAIN, I THINK LOTS OF THINGS WILL HAPPEN IN THE LONG RUN. IN THE SHORT RUN, APPLICATION AREAS WITH PREDICTABLE ENVIRONMENTS WITH RELATIVELY SET TASKS ARE THE ONES THAT WILL OF COURSE BE EASIEST. BUT IN SOME WAYS, IN THE LONG RUN THAT MIGHT BE THE LEAST IMPORTANT. SO FOR EXAMPLE WE ARE INVESTORS IN A COMPANY CALLED SUNDAY ROBOTICS WORKING ON HOME ROBOTS, SORT OF FULLY INTEGRATED TO THAT USE CASE.

37:27 I DO THINK WHEN YOU TAKE AN APPLICATION LIKE THAT REALLY SERIOUSLY, YOU CAN MAKE PROGRESS VERY QUICKLY. YOU KNOW, I DO THINK THAT THERE’S ALSO -- THERE’S ALSO THIS QUESTION OF, YOU KNOW, THE INDUSTRIAL APPLICATIONS WILL PROBABLY HAVE SOME OF THE BIGGEST IMPACTS. WE HAVE SORT OF GOOD INDUSTRIAL ROBOTS FOR RELATIVELY PREDICTABLE MANUFACTURING TASKS, MANUFACTURING TASKS THAT ARE LESS PREDICTABLE THAT’S WHERE INTELLIGENCE CAN PLAY A ROLE. ED: CAN WE TALK ABOUT INVESTING.

37:59 SO THIS IS A SPECIFIC FUND. IS FUND 11 TECHNICALLY, COMES AFTER FUND 10. WHAT IS REALISTIC IN A CALENDAR YEAR? DO YOU GO AFTER HIGH VOLUME OR DO YOU JUST SAY OK, LIKE THIS IS HIGH CONVICTION IN THIS ENVIRONMENT? WE HAVE A THESIS FOR THIS FUND. SO WE WILL DO A HANDFUL OF INVESTMENTS AND CAP IT. HOW DOES THAT WORK? SLATER: WE DON’T THINK ABOUT IT IN THAT WAY. THE WAY THAT WE THINK ABOUT IT IS THAT WE KNOW WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE WHEN WE SEE AN INCREDIBLE FOUNDER PURSUING AN OUTLIER OPPORTUNITY THAT WE BELIEVE IN.

38:28 WE MIGHT GET TO CONVICTION ON THAT OPPORTUNITY IN DIFFERENT WAYS. IN SOME CASES, IT COULD BE THESIS DRIVEN LIKE YOU ARE DESCRIBING. I WOULD SAY THAT OUR INVESTMENT IN FLEET, FOR EXAMPLE, ONE COMPANY HAPPENED THAT WAY. IN OTHER CASES, IT’S REALLY THROUGH CONVERSATIONS WTS FOUNDER AND LEARNING THE OPPORTUNITY THAT WE GET TO CONVICTION. BUT I DON’T THINK ABOUT IT IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, CAPITAL DEPLOYMENT OVER SOME PERIOD OF TIME OR SOME SORT OF STRICT RULES ABOUT HOW WE WOULD DEPLOY IT. ED: TAKE US INSIDE BAIN CAPITAL VENTURES. SO IF YOU HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY OR AN IDEA, YOU ARE THE SPONSOR OF IT, HOW DID THE PARTNERS GET AROUND IT AND DECIDE LIKE THIS IS THE BET WE WANT TO MAKE?

39:07 PARTICULARLY WHEN YOU ARE SAYING WE WANT TO INVEST IN AN OPPORTUNITY FOR LIFE AFTER A.G.I. SLATER: YEAH, I THINK IT’S -- SO ONE WAY THAT I THINK ABOUT THIS IS OPPORTUNITIES THAT WE THINK COULD BE TREMENDOUSLY VALUABLE AND THAT WE YUN -- UNDERSTAND THE TECHNOLOGICAL PATH TO ACHIEVING THEM. SO, FOR EXAMPLE, IN COMPANIES LIKE DECAGON OR COGNITION, WE UNDERSTAND THE PROMISE OF WHAT THOSE COMPANIES ARE IN AUTOMATING SOFTWARE ENGINEERING OR CUSTOMER SUPPORT.

39:44 IT’S SORT OF CLEAR THAT THE PLAN, IF THE FOUNDERS ARE ABLE TO DO THE THINGS THEY WANT TO DO, THAT WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO ACHIEVE IT. THERE ARE OTHER COMPANIES LIKE PERIODIC LABS WHICH IS BUILDING AN A.I. SCIENTIST FOCUSED ON MATERIAL SCIENCE APPLICATIONS WHERE WE SPEND MORE TIME ON THE TECHNOLOGY AND SORT OF WHY WE THINK THE FOUNDERS ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO ACHIEVE THAT. ED: I WOULD LIKE TO ENDS THE CONVERSATION TALKING ABOUT COGNITION. THEY’VE CLOSED AROUND, BUT THE THING THAT’S CHANGED FOR ME IN THE LAST CALENDAR YEAR IS THE ADS IN SAN FRANCISCO. I AM PARAPHRASING, BUT IT SAYS DEVIN IS ACTUALLY GOOD NOW WHICH IS AN ADMISSION THAT IT’S TAKEN TIME. THAT’S AMAZING. YOU SEE BILLBOARDS OVER S.F.

40:28 ALL THE TIME BUT IN COGNITION’S CASE WHAT YOU SAW IN THE DEVELOPMENT ARC. SLATER: I REALLY LOVE THAT CAMPAIGN. WHAT I LIKE ABOUT IT IS TO ME IT’S COGNITION CALLING THEIR SHOT REALLY EARLY ON. SO AT THE TIME THAT THEY SORT OF PUT A FLAG OUT AND SAID WE ARE GOING TO BE THE AUTONOMOUS SOFTWARE AGENT THAT WORKS, I WOULD SAY THAT THE BASE MODELS WERE NOT QUITE THERE YET. ED: AT THAT TIME. SLATER: BUT THEY UNDERSTOOD EXACTLY WHERE THINGS WERE GOING AND SORT OF UNDERSTOOD THAT THAT WAS THE VALUABLE PLACE TO BE IN THE LONG RUN. AND SO I THINK IT WAS A COURAGEOUS THING TO DO AND I THINK THEY CALLED IT PERFECTLY.

41:01 ED: IS THERE A NEXT COGNITION THEN WITH THIS FUND THAT YOU THINK YOU CAN FIND? SLATER: WE DO. I THINK THERE WILL BE OTHER APPLICATIONS THAT LOOK LIKE THIS AND THEN I ALSO THINK THAT AS YOU SORT OF GO UP LEVELS OF INTELLIGENCE AUTOMATION, THERE WILL BE ALL SORTS OF THINGS THAT WE CAN’T EVEN ANTICIPATE YET. ED: SLATER STICH PARTNER AT BAIN CAPITAL VENTURES, REALLY GREAT TO HAVE YOU ON "BLOOMBERG TECH." COMING UP, EUROPE IS JOINING THE A.I. DEBT BOOM AND WE WILL TELL YOU HOW. THAT’S NEXT. THIS IS "BLOOMBERG TECH."

41:32 ♪ ED: THERE IS A LOT GOING ON IN THE WORLD. LET’S GET OUT TO NEW YORK WHERE YAHAIRA ANAND IS STANDING BY. YAHAIRA: IT’S TIME FOR TALKING TECH. FIRST UP AS YOU SAID, EUROPE IS JOINING THE A.I. DEBT BOOM BETWEEN $5 BILLION AND $10 BILLION OF DATA CENTER BONDS COULD REACH EUROPEAN MARKETS BY YEAR END. THAT’S ACCORDING TO GOLDMAN SACHS, WITH A BIGGER WAIT EXPECTED IN 2027.

42:08 THIS COMES AS THE CONTINENT IS COMING TO -- PUSHING TO REDUCE RELIANCE ON OVERSEAS TECHNOLOGY. PLUS, OVER IN SOUTH KOREA ITS DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER SAYS THE COUNTRY MUST CONTINUE ADVANCING A.I. WITHOUT PAUSE OR DELAY, SAYING THE NATION CAN’T AFFORD A SHOWDOWN LIKE THE ONE PROPOSED BY ANTHROPIC LEADER DARIO AMODEI. THE COUNTRY HAS OF COURSE BEEN ONE OF THE BIGGEST BENEFICIARIES OF THE A.I. BUILDOUT. AND BITE DANCE CO-FOUNDER IS NOW ASIA’S RICHEST PERSON OVERTAKING AN INDIAN BILLIONAIRE.

42:41 THE BLOOMBERG BILLIONAIRES INDEX PUTS FORTUNE AT MORE THAN $105 BILLION AS BITE DANCE PUSHES DEEPER INTO A.I. AND MOVES PAST THE REGULATORY FIGHT THAT NEARLY FORCED TIKTOK OUT OF THE U.S. ED? ED: THANK YOU, YAHAIRA. GO BACK TO INTEL AND THE U.S. SHARES OF SK HYNIX HIGHER. THERE WAS A REPORT THE TWO ARE LOOKING AT A TIE-UP IN THE UNITED STATES OVER MANUFACTURING. INTEL NOW MARKEDLY HIGHER. THERE IS ANOTHER CHIP STORY OUT THERE. APPLE. IN THE MOMENT THERE WAS SOME SHARE REACTION TO A REPORT FROM THE INFORMATION THAT APPLE IS WORKING ON AN ENTERPRISE SERVER THAT WOULD USE ITS OWN CHIPS AND HAS HELD DISCUSSIONS WITH NVIDIA ABOUT USING ITS NETWORKING EQUIPMENT. WE HAVE DONE A LOT IN THE PROGRAM OF LATE ABOUT FUSION ETC.

43:34 THE STOCK IS MODESTLY HIGHER BUT IN THE MOMENT THERE WAS A MOVE ON THAT STORY, WHICH BLOOMBERG HAS NOT VERIFIED. THAT DOES IT FOR THIS EDITION OF "BLOOMBERG TECH." WHAT AN EDITION IT WAS. A LOT OF YOU COME TO THE SHOW THROUGH THE PODCAST SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THAT. YOU KNOW WHERE TO FIND IT, BUT RECAP ON THE TERMINAL AS WELL AS ONLINE, ON APPLE, SPOTIFY, AND IHEART. HALFWAY THROUGH THE WEEK, THIS IS "BLOOMBERG TECH." ♪