Transcript
0:09 Great stuff. >> Ready, my friend? >> Absolutely. >> Cool. We're back discussing Naval Ravikant's episode with Chris Williamson. Let's jump in on relationships and the resume trap. The quote goes as follows, "When you ask someone why they're in a relationship and they start reading out his or her resume, that's a bad sign. The more materially and concretely definable the reasons they are together, the worse they are."
0:48 How do you feel about that, Will? >> Yeah, I think it's it's very true, but but hard. >> Hard why? >> We want things to be laid out in a way that is, I don't know, easily understandable. >> Yeah, I suppose, but for instance, why you with Soph? Define why you are with Soph. >> So, for those of you >> you list all of the concrete things.
1:20 >> >> for those of you don't know, Soph is my fiance and it's it's relevant to Naval Ravikant's topics that changed the world. So, I just want to just bear with this. So, why am I with her? I am with her because she is fundamentally caring. She's in insightful. That's a word, isn't it? She has lots >> and she's actually quite good at step-by-step thinking.
1:53 She's just not very good at getting that across. >> So, she's very rational, but the the words the brain to mouth is lacking. >> That's it. Okay. >> So do we feel like there's a lot of people that chase almost the stat sheet? So on paper they want the job, the height, the hobbies, the things that when they list them out, you know, why would you with this person? Well, they got a great job, you know, they they really look after themselves, they go to the gym, and you know, they're 6'4, which is the ideal height.
2:30 Do you think how it must be hard to break that cycle. So I suppose is it bad if people are looking for the stat sheet? What's the impact you think that has on dating? >> Yeah, I think so because it's just you're not living in reality. Like if if you have idea, I think we've mentioned them in prior podcasts. If you're looking for a set list of things, your chance of finding that person is very very slim, especially if you're not willing to cave on any of them.
3:05 the other thing is if you have a set list, imagine what somebody else's set list is, and then you realize you'd never fit into it. It's like so hold on a second, just take the pressure away from everything. It's like is this a person I can build a genuine connection with? That's the only only barrier to entry if you like. It's like can you genuinely get on? Do you enjoy spending time together? Do you have relatively close values?
3:35 Boom. >> We can get lost in the the details, can't we? Because it feels easier to describe to someone I like what they do for a living rather than this ineffable feeling that they give me when I'm with them. You know, how airy-fairy does that sound? But in reality that is dating, you know, why with this person? Well, because they make me feel safe and the way they help me navigate through the world makes me feel seen and cared for.
4:03 That's so much more intangible than the you know, they've got a good job, they're absolutely jacked. You know, these are just all the tick list items. >> Yeah, it feels almost performative. Because it why do you want them to have a good job? Because I guarantee like yes, it might be nice if your partner makes a lot of money, but if you're the dude in the situation, statistically you don't want that because that means the woman will leave you.
4:30 so it's it's purely to show off to other people. It's like why does how your relationship feels and is need to look a certain way to other people? Why do you care? >> I would also wonder why do you care about having such a tick list for a person, you know? It's a really fascinating way to approach dating, you know, rather than thinking about or rather than feeling the emotion, you're thinking about how the certain attributes are going to make you feel rather than authentically just feeling the emotions that the person is going to give you.
5:08 Does that make sense? >> Yeah, no, definitely. It's like you're you're prioritizing the wrong things. It's like starting a business and prioritizing getting a desk. >> Yeah, absolutely. You're prioritizing about from the outside my business looks like it works, you know, like I've got a laptop, I've got a computer, I've got I've got a laptop and a computer is probably not very helpful, but I've got a printer. >> mouse. >> Yeah, I've got a printer, I've got a sit-stand desk. What do you do? What does this business do? Not there yet.
5:41 I'm still in the planning stages. >> Yeah. >> It is odd when people look at dating in regards to like hollow stat sheet connections cuz that's how it feels, isn't it? But I apologize, I did interrupt you with this business analogy. >> Well, I just love a business analogy. It's It's like there's so many areas of life where it's the same, though. And it's contrary to popular belief, a lot of it. So, for example, when you think of a business, you think of a well-designed plan that's been executed on.
6:17 But, that's once you've got something sustainable. So, initially, you don't have to have the most perfect plan. You just need action. You need to almost brute force your way through it. Just send an ungodly amount of outreach messages, for example. And eventually, you'll get some bites. And you'll you'll refine and you'll But, the the when you make decisions and you don't know anything, and you try and plan two, three steps ahead, you don't know what your reality will be by step two to then know what step three will be.
6:51 Fix the problem that's directly in front of you, rather than waiting. Because once you fix problem one, for example, getting your first client, you'll have a different level of resources to attack problem number two, and you'll probably redefine what problem two is. >> So, question. Just a quick answer. When you're talking about sending loads of emails out, are you talking about business or dating? >> Yeah. >> Just curious. Rock on. All right. Love it. The second is almost to tie your business analogy back to dating, which is you're saying here about you're not going to know what problem two is until you've tackled problem one. If you're too busy caught up in this stat sheet of I need them to have certain qualifications before they even get a first date with me, how are you going to know you actually even like those qualifications?
7:40 You know, like there's people that have these sort of traits that compete with each other. You know, it's like I want a person that is in really good shape and looks after themselves and eats well. Well, that also comes at the cost of their time that they can spend with you, you know, they probably don't want to just sit on the couch every evening and watch Netflix. They probably want to go for a run or do a CrossFit class or whatever it might be.
8:03 Now, there's sometimes qualities that don't pair well. So, if you're got this stat sheet in front of you, how are you going to know what you actually want until you almost clear it to the side and try different things? And I'm not saying you should be a serial dater, but I'm saying that if you genuinely connect with people that have different interests than you and you've got a rigid a strong sense of self, you can understand what you like and what you don't like when you start to date people rather than they are cool, they play the guitar, I will suddenly play the guitar and be in a band because their personality is now mine.
8:41 >> Yeah. I think also and again, it extrapolates across so many different areas of life, but when we have these certain stat sheets, the the dreams, the the list of perfection, are we actually designing our ideal partner, or are we just identifying our own flaws, but saying that is what we're looking for in other people? Really, we're looking for it in ourselves. Like, I'm looking for somebody that's really in shape. Well, do I really mean that I want to be in really good shape? Is that why I'm saying that?
9:13 Like, I really want somebody that's into long walks. Am I just annoyed at myself for not taking myself on long walks? >> You want a dog. >> Yeah. >> That's what you want. >> Well, you know, it's but so many times like where we criticize other people or we we aspire to have certain character traits in somebody else. Like, how often is that actually us just projecting what we want to see in ourselves? >> I think you could be onto something because don't they say what you judge people on most harshly is often what you judge yourself on? So, I wonder if there is some correlation there with dating as well, which is if these are traits you want in a partner or on the tick list of what you want for a partner is maybe what you wish that you would have yourself. But I do have a question for you, Will. Like, what are the traits you are looking for in a partner? And I'm I'm looking for tick list. I'm looking for genuine ineffable shared core beliefs and values type vibe. Like what is it that you think is important?
10:20 >> I think it's important they're effable. No. I'm I'm trying to add comedy. I'm sorry. >> It didn't go well. >> It didn't go well. I won't do that again. Serious face episode one will. What are the I mean yeah I Luckily and I'm saying luckily because it wasn't something I was necessarily striving for, but like I've got a very supportive fiance because I proposed and we're engaged.
10:52 >> So was she not supportive as a girlfriend or is that something that's she's gained since becoming a fiance? >> No, she she's always been supportive. But it's like I I I didn't strive looking for that stuff. But now I'm in it it's like yeah, like I love these character traits of this person. It's like I didn't have a checklist going into it. It was like I let's just see what happens. Like as you know, So and I were friends for like a year before we officially got together.
11:17 And that was because we just enjoyed the >> that? >> Hm? >> I said who does that? >> Yeah. Hm. we just enjoyed spending time with each other. And that's the most important thing. It's like if if you can hang out with somebody for an entire year, you'll probably be quite good together because you can handle each other on your good days and your bad days. Like literally from the first weekend we ever spent together, we haven't spent a weekend apart.
11:45 >> That's wild. >> And that was like the first time we met. Was on a Saturday. >> And that is wild. My commitment issues are freaking out right now. >> Yeah. Well, maybe Naval Ravikant has a quote that could help us out with that. >> Are you trying to cue me up for something cuz I don't have anything? >> You don't have anything? Oh, useless. >> Do you have something? >> No, you don't be silly.
12:15 >> Okay. >> >> Nice. Yeah, it's curiously ineffable like core beliefs and core values because you've alluded to some there. It's very much a case of like how does this person make you feel? We all want to be seen, heard, and understood, right? I think that's the plight of humankind is we want to feel connected to people that we genuinely care for. We want to feel seen by people. And we want to feel genuinely understood. I think those are some of the most important things when it comes to dating. It's like it doesn't matter how it looks from the outside or how other people perceive the relationship. If you genuinely feel safe with this person, safe to fit to share your wins, your losses, your challenges, you know, to argue, to rebuild together, then there's genuinely probably a good person rather than they're six foot and they're tall and they're you know, tall.
13:15 >> Is is that your your weakness there, Connor? >> Tall people? No, absolutely not. >> No, you like being able to get to the front of the mosh pit underneath everyone's legs. >> I like to be able to put on someone's shoulders so I can see what's going on. That's what I look for in a partner. >> You look for tall friends, not tall partners. >> I just look for tall people to surround myself with so that I can feel like I'm becoming tall through osmosis.
13:43 >> Nice. I I did the same thing as a teenager. I was like one of the short kids in school until exam season and then I shot up like 2 and 1/2 feet in 6 months or something stupid. And I watched so much basketball just by trying to persuade myself that if my body thinks that I'm going to be a basketball player, I'll just grow to be like a basketball player. That was my theory. Mhm. Didn't work.
14:06 >> I like it. It's a good theory. I I did the same thing except for I didn't shoot up. I probably shrunk. >> Yeah. >> Anyway. So, we actually have another quote from the Chris Williamson and Navar episode. It's on unteachable What was that? >> That was my celebration. >> I didn't like it. >> Okay. Noted. >> Thank you. It's on >> >> unteachable lessons and ego. The quote goes, "There is a certain subset of advice that we all refuse to learn through instruction.
14:42 We convince ourselves that we are the exception to the rule, that our particular mental makeup renders us immune." I love this one, man. It's so brutal and so honest that it's And it's so true as well, because it's like you always think that well, that's that's not going to happen to me. I was listening to what Chris Williamson was saying on another episode, which is the quote from Jimmy Carr, "I wish everyone gets rich and famous beyond their wildest dreams so they can realize it's not the answer."
15:13 But then, there's always one that's like, "Well, that's not going to be the case for me." And I was that I was immediately said that, mate. I was like, "Well, it would solve my problem." Like, we we naturally think that there is advice that we just we're better than. We like, no matter how many times it's said to us, it doesn't matter because we we're going to know better. So, there is a certain subset of advice that we all refuse to learn through instruction.
15:41 We convince ourselves that we are the exception to the rule, that our particular mental makeup renders us immune. What are your thoughts? >> Yeah, it's I mean, now I've internalized it, it's incredibly helpful. But I kid you So, I learned this advice or learned this as a as a concept very young, because I was 15, 16 and obsessed with the stock market. And >> Naturally.
16:12 >> Naturally. I mean, who What what 15, 16-year-old isn't? My leavers jumper said broker on the back because I wanted to be a stock broker. That was that was me back then. But so the the the way that I internalize that advice was when you're day trading you are trying to beat the market. And when you're trying to beat the market you've got to try and think like everyone else. And whatever you think it will be as a inexperienced trader you will be wrong.
16:47 And I was like, "No, but I'm the exception. Like I've got all these charts, I've drawn all these graphs. Like I can see exactly where it's going to go." And any trade I made as I turned 18, 19 was like any day trade I made was a loss. And then I internalize I was like, "Oh my god, all I've got to do is work out exactly where it's going to go, follow all my advice. Like this is going to this is going to work absolutely and just do completely the opposite."
17:17 I don't know. It didn't work. >> It Yeah, I made a little bit. But it's the but it's true. It's And the same thing now like running my business. Now it's very similar I just think, "Okay, what do I want?" If I was to I don't know hire a social media consultant, what am I looking for? Because I would can be the target market. Cuz I'm I'm not an exception. I'm just another human working my days.
17:43 You know? So it's And it's it makes it a lot easier to relate to people cuz it's like if you just humble yourself down to the fact you're not an exception then it's like you're just one of the people. >> One of the many hummuses out there. >> Yes. Love love some hummus. >> Mhm. I had to hold in my own laugh at my own joke. >> That little snort. >> That's embarrassing. Yeah. >> That. >> Yeah.
18:09 >> >> Yeah, it's funny that this was something brought up from these two cuz we've done many episodes on unteachable lessons and this one is so true, you know, that we think we're holier than thou, that we are better than this advice, and we can rise above it, you know, we're we're not going to fall into those same pitfalls that everyone else did. You know, those minefields that everyone else blew up in, we're going to we're just going to ignore them. We're just going to glide through it, and you know, what's funny? Is we always learn the hard way. Like you've said, is it's not a case of we're actually better than it. Maybe one out of 10 times, but there are times where we just blow up like the rest of us. So, it's interesting how this gets caught around ego though as well, right? Like we wrap our ego around things thinking that we're better than other people. So, like money won't fix your self-worth, fame is a trap. All these things are lessons we're told, but we think our ego is better to not get caught in the trap.
19:11 So, I'm going to bring up stoicism because we love discussing that. But do you agree that the stoicism argument that ego is the enemy? Do you agree, disagree, or are you impartial, or do you want me to elaborate on what that means? >> I think stoicism is a important tool in the toolbox. And I think humbling yourself and and getting rid of the ego completely isn't necessarily a good idea. I think again, ego is almost another tool in the toolbox.
19:43 Because I would say without ego, it's quite difficult to feel max levels of excitement. Cuz there's a little bit of if you have a big win in your life, you're like, "Yeah, I'm the best." And that's ego. And that enhances the excitement of the success. But similarly, it's important to be humble and you know, grateful. Gratitude, getting in there on the pillars of the podcast. And be able to pull that out of the toolbox as well. It's like it's just you knowing what what paints there are to paint your life's picture with, and choosing them selectively for the moment. If ego ever gets to the point where you're like seeing an old lady cross a road and you overtake her as you're also crossing the road and you win and then you scream in her face that you are the best at crossing roads, your ego has got too much.
20:39 >> I feel like this happened in your life. >> I don't want to talk about it. >> >> If If, however, you're you're in a situation and like a job interview, for example, and you're you have absolutely no ego and you're almost self-deprecating, then you're not going to have success because you're not allowing yourself to present in the best way. You're not able to to say that yes, like hi, my name is Will. I'm good quite good at making content. Like I I know how to get high retention videos. I know how to to get a good swipe rate on a short-form piece of content. It's like that's not ego talking. That is me simply sharing one of the things I'm good at while accepting I have flaws in other areas of my life. So, it should again, it's picking the right paints to paint the picture of your life.
21:29 >> That was incredibly well put. You might even say eloquently put. >> Thank you, sir. >> But I think you're right. There's definitely tools that you can use at different parts of your life and ego is one of them. But I'd probably argue though I'd I would rather people lean into the imposter syndrome rather than leaning into the ego because it's I would say if you're in a place where you feel like your ego is running rampant, you're probably in the wrong pool. You're probably at the point now you need to put yourself in a bigger pool because I'd much rather be a smaller fish in a bigger pond than the biggest fish in a tiny little puddle, you know, it's just not worth it because where are you going to grow from there if you are the biggest person in the room? So, let's talk about how you can bring your ego down, lean into that imposter syndrome, put yourself in places with people that are above you, which is why we should start giving guests cuz there's heaps of people above us. That's a different conversation, but I agree that ego is definitely a tool that can be used and when used correctly can make a person a man very confident, very powerful, but not in a dominant way, in a very like controlled way. Does that make sense? Am I getting my words out? Am I making good mouth sounds?
22:46 >> A warrior in a garden, not a gardener in a war. Nice. I like that. I >> Just want to because we're live, I want to pull out some of the comments. Jason Bender said if we get 9,000 likes he'll bring us to Win- Wisconsin. I think he'll be waiting a while for that. >> Yeah, 9,000 likes I don't think we've had in the last 18 months. >> Yeah, we've been going for 18 months. Sigh. Paul says, "Hi." Hi, Paul. And then Zane says, "Guest is a cutie pie." And then says, "The one in the black top." But I would argue looking at the live stream you can't actually tell who's in the black top. So, I think it's a compliment for us both, my friend.
23:26 >> I I think it's definitely pointed your direction. And that's okay. >> Yeah, well. No, it's not. I hate it. >> Hey, you're you're on the market. >> Sure. >> >> Tell yourself what you need to. >> How I met your mother, define the relationship. >> >> Nice. I mean, we have used ineffable which is >> Not a good way to describe >> word. >> Not a great way to describe the person you're effing.
23:58 >> Ineffable. Yeah. >> >> Okay, so let's move on. We're now going to go on to self-esteem which I think is a pretty good segue from talking about ego. Self-esteem is a reputation you have with yourself. You're watching yourself at all times. If you don't live up to your own moral code, it will damage your self-esteem. What I like about this one is I've never thought about it in this phrasing.
24:28 Because self-esteem we often think about our view of our self, yes, because that's what it's suggesting. You're always watching yourself. But I've never thought about it as your self-esteem is a reflection on how you align with your own moral code, which is almost has two parts. Firstly, can you define your moral code? Like, do you know what it is? And then secondly, how well do you live up to it? And then that reflecting on directly how you view yourself. And it's a really interesting train of thought. I'm not saying I agree with it 100%, but I'm not saying I disagree with it. I actually think it is a really fascinating insight.
25:10 >> Mhm. Yeah, defining your moral code through the lens of your self-esteem. That's interesting. >> It is, right? Because it is suggesting that say my moral code is about how I feel I interact with people or the way that I choose to navigate life in terms of being kind to people. And then if I ever feel like I am being rude to people or letting people down or not connecting with them as much as I feel like I could, that might damage my view of myself, therefore my self-esteem. So it goes down in relation to how I've correlated that to my moral compass, which is a fascinating way to view it.
25:52 >> Yeah, definitely. I was just trying to think like what is my moral code? I suppose moral code is also what what you value, is it, in yourself? Or what you value in it? >> Yes. So that was going to be my second point, which is we can break this down into micro failures, which are probably more tangible than the big grand moral betrayals. You know, it's about the hitting snooze rather than going to the gym or breaking those small daily promises you keep to yourself. You know, if you are on a diet for instance, so you're cutting your calories ever so slightly.
26:27 By breaking that daily promises of that I can just do it this time. And then you just go over, it's probably going to have a negative impact on your self-esteem because you are then directly relating that micro failure into how you view yourself and how you view you in relation to the goals that you've set and the importance you've put on that. >> Yeah, for sure. Very eloquently put. >> Thank you, sir. Thank you, sir. Is there any times you feel like you have let yourself down on a micro level? Like the time where you hit snooze rather than going to the gym or saying you're going to the gym and not going or saying I'm going to wash up and don't do it.
27:11 >> All of the above. >> Do you feel like that has an impact then on your self-esteem? >> No, otherwise I'd change. >> Do you really believe that? >> I think I do. I think we're going to the gym, for example. Like I've been actually going quite consistently and I've probably just ruined it by telling you because I feel like whenever I tell people I'm doing stuff, I usually end up failing at it. So >> If you want a dream to fail, tell other people.
27:43 >> Yeah. So, I've been going to the gym pretty consistently, like two or three times a week for the last number of weeks, actually. >> Love that. >> But I haven't I think the thing that puts me off is I've never really had a reason to go because I don't have any body insecurity, which sounds like a flex, but it's more just I can't be bothered. And because of that, it's very difficult to motivate myself to go. If you make the goal, I'm doing this to look like a Greek god.
28:14 So, what I've been focusing on recently is and this is how I've changed my annoyance of not going to the gym and turned it into an activity that I enjoy is just actually focusing in the moment on really trying to enjoy the exercise I'm doing. Because before it was purely end goal focused and I was trying to extrapolate out from like, okay, why am I able to focus on business when it's very much in the grind that's the enjoyable bit.
28:42 But when it comes to the gym, I'm so end goal focused. It's like that's not how you do anything successfully. You've got to enjoy the suck. So I'm just going and like every like bench press, overhead press, those gold wing ones and like these lifting chairs above the head or whatever, all of that I'm doing and just focusing on really enjoying the actual movements of it. And that's how I've managed to >> Sounds Sounds very meditative.
29:16 >> Almost. I think it's more just if if one is lifting the weights, one is simply just lifting the weights. >> Oh my god, you are like Master Oogway up in here. >> I am. I love an Oogway. Oh, no, the Oodi. Never mind. >> What is an Oodi? Oh god, don't leave me alone with the live chat, Will. Don't leave me alone with the live chat. He's gone. This is terrible. Everything is off the rails now. I'm left alone.
29:48 I'm unsupervised. I'm just going to talk to you about Red Rising, the series that I'm reading. Red Rising is quite possibly some of the best books ever made. >> >> It's a dystopian young adult, although it's not limited to that demographic. What you should do is read it because it's got so many subtleties. Oh my god, he's back. I started talking Will, I started talking about Red Rising. I got carried away. That's terrifying. >> I put it on Inside Out on my back to front.
30:20 >> Those are the two best ways to put it on. >> I'm back. Serious podcast. >> Nice. So yeah, we're talking about these micro Oh, he's gone again. Talking about micro failures. So skipping the gym or not holding yourself accountable to things that you have previously said were important. What do you think the weight is of those invisible compromises that we don't show to other people? You know, those times when no one else sees it, but you secretly slowly let yourself down.
30:54 >> It is those simple mundane tasks, isn't it? Like washing Like washing the dishes. It's like, " I I know it would be really nice for my other half to come home from work and not like see a sink full of dishes. Like, I should just do it. It will take me 20 minutes. What What's the alternative? I'll be sitting on the sofa doing nothing." I'll just go and sit on the sofa and do nothing. >> Can you follow my train of thought with me because I think I have simply arrived at the place that Naval was trying to get to. So, say you want to start running or you want to start doing more things for your partner, whatever it might be. These small daily promises you ask yourself to keep.
31:42 Say then, you don't do it. You let yourself snooze or you go lay on the sofa, whatever it might be. In that moment, you've let yourself down. So, therefore, you view yourself slightly negatively. Therefore, that has a negative impact on yourself image, which therefore is directly correlated to self-esteem. Is self-esteem simply as he has put the reputation we have of ourselves? Cuz I often thought self-esteem was, "Oh, I have a low self-esteem, you know, always bad talking to myself." Or all these kind of things, but I suppose when you put a header on it, it is simply the reputation you have with yourself.
32:20 It seems so simple and maybe this is just my revelation now that everyone is getting to witness and being like, "Jesus Christ, who gave this guy a podcast?" I think that every day, but it seems so beautifully simple. >> Yeah, I know it's true. And it it's little reframes like that that I think make advice more accessible. It's those little reframes. So, yes, this person's got low self-esteem. I can help you with your self-esteem. Oh, I don't have a problem with my self-esteem. Okay, what's your reputation with yourself like? Oh, yeah, well, I don't really respect myself at all.
32:56 >> Mhm. >> It's exactly the same thing. But, it just provides a different road of access. >> Yeah, it's these words that we say about ourselves, isn't it? Are we the type of person that And I know you and I have strong beliefs that we are the type of people that can do hard things. And you were there witnessing it when I was in the previous role that I absolutely despised, and I was asking myself, am I the person that can do hard things? Because I felt like I was letting myself down.
33:26 It is very interesting how that role and what definitions we put onto ourselves shape our view of our self. Yeah. I think I think that's actually a really fascinating insight, and I'm grateful for it. >> No, you're you're very good at articulating complex things. >> I appreciate that. I feel like I am not, but I did actually hear Chris Williamson He It's the podcast I sent you. I can't remember who it's with. I want to listen to more of his stuff. But, he suggested the guest suggested everyone should And he said this is like just a throwaway thing, and someone started to doing it. I think his first video of trying this got like thousands of subscribers, millions of views.
34:14 It is simply record yourself for 60 seconds talking to a camera as if you're on a podcast or as if you're giving a speech. And do that for 60 seconds every day. You don't have to have a topic, don't have to have anything in mind. Just try and get the words that are in your brain out of your mouth as fluently and as clearly as possible. The reason he said this is because he realized through data that there is people that will suggest they would rather die than public speaking than do public speaking. Public speaking is the biggest fear across all genders, races, ages.
34:53 So, he suggested that people try and get over it by doing that thing. And he said he can tangibly see the difference from this guy that started day one all the way through I think he's done it for like 3 years now. The point is so eloquent with his words, it's beautiful. So, I don't know where this came from, but it's definitely something I thought about through this podcast is people should think about the words that they say, the way they formulate them in their brain, and then taking the time to actually get them out because communication is like king, right? You can't can't get around life without communication. So, if you can get good mouth sounds out of your brain, then you're winning.
35:37 >> Yeah, for sure. And look, the better The person >> Yeah, wag one, my G. The better communicator gets the promotion. The person who's great at the job but can't communicate it doesn't. Communication is key. Pers- personability. >> Most roles require some degree of communication and like you say, who is the one that you trust the most? It's the person that can communicate most effectively.
36:09 William, we have our last quote wrapping up our part two of our Naval special. Status games are inherently limited. They are always com- combative. Wealth creation games are positive sum. Makes sense? So, it's Okay, let me break it down. Status games are inherently limited. Wealth creation games are positive sum. So, contrast Instagram flexes status.
36:44 We confuse that with true independence, which is wealth. So, there is almost like this zero-sum hierarchy where someone has to lose for you to win, whereas wealth is a creation that allows everyone to win. >> Yeah, I thought zero-sum was everyone can win. Positive sum. >> Positive sum. Yeah, positive sum, everyone can win. So, status games are inherently limited, wealth creation games are positive sum.
37:16 >> Yeah, that makes sense. It was It was one of the big shifts of going from like accountancy to music. It's like and even YouTube creation. It's like everyone wants to help, everyone is sharing their ideas, everyone's very friendly. Whereas you go into accounting, everyone's trying to crush your dreams. Cuz it's like only one of us can get the promotion. Whereas in this industry, it's like everyone's like, "Yeah, let's just help each other out." Cuz I I think if like What is that? A rising tide raises all ships.
37:52 >> Very wise today, very oody or whatever it was. >> Oogly. >> Same thing. >> Ooh ooh googly. >> Gucci. What? >> Yeah. I need to stop saying That's a communication flaw I have. >> You need to get better at making mouth sounds, my friend. See, yes. I think this current I don't know, this current culture that we're in very much is about the Instagram flex, the TikTok flex, the YouTube flex, you know, this status, this idea of perceived status. If you have X amount of followers, you win because other people lose, whereas true independence, whereas wealth is very much about abundance, is very much about sharing, is very much about bringing people together like you suggested. So, people need to start moving away from this idea of perceived status because by chasing status you normally inherently have zero status because it comes across as inherently >> desperate.
38:58 >> Like lacking. Yes, exactly. >> Yeah, I think so this is something we need to actually work out. It's because I I don't think people with high follower accounts 5 years from now will be will have any status. >> Well, this was the discussion that we've had before which was status versus legacy. >> Yeah, well I think status will still exist. We'll just assign it somewhere different. So, for and the reason why I think this is because 10 years ago if you had a lot of subscribers or a lot of followers and you posted something, your followers would see it.
39:35 Now, having a follower account is irrelevant to how many people get shown your post. So, you actually have no power. If you if we can figure out what that next area is like who who are the people that get status when the people with the most followers don't have access to them. >> I don't know if I follow your train of thought, honestly. I'll let you mull it over and bring it back up, but I just want to bring out a comment that Zane said. It's about self-esteem. Low self-esteem only happens when one gives a damn about others. Luckily, I don't.
40:19 So, I'm curious whether they are suggesting that low self-esteem only happens when you care for or have service of others. Luckily, they don't. I'm not sure how I interpret that. Please, Zane, let us know. >> I think it's self-esteem >> give some more clarity. >> can be affected if other people influence your thoughts about yourself. For example, if you're surrounded by people saying that you're not good then you your internal monologue will be I'm not good. Whereas if you don't care what other people think and you think you're good, then you're good.
40:52 >> Well, you could argue that the only words that hurt from other people are the ones that you perceive to be true. You know, like if you called me fat that would only hurt if I believed that I was fat. >> True. >> Mhm. >> >> So, don't ever call me fat. Like if you call me short, that would only hurt if I believed I was short. >> Okay.
41:22 Those of you don't know, Connor is a There's even a famous Tik Tok channel that he set up. And it's it's all over >> >> the internet. We found Connor. Let's go. >> We need to get him on the podcast and get his number one. >> That'd be so sick. It would look a bit like if we put him in the thumbnail, like AI would be so confused as to who was who. >> >> And you produce four pictures of me.
41:49 >> That's it. One of them with a massive beard. >> Yeah, this is it. It wouldn't know what to do. >> Yeah. >> Mhm. Have you formulated your words correctly in regards to what you're saying about status and legacy? >> Yeah, I mean I have before. It's like if if the people with followers can't access their followers in terms of they make a post and it's not automatically shown to people who have signed up to see more of it. If that's the case then where does status go? Because that instantly removes the point of having a follower count.
42:23 >> Status surely goes to the people that you personally deem to have status. I suppose there's status on a personal level and then status is a wider level, you know, like we deem we personally deem Chris Williamson, Mark Manson Hormozi to have status. >> Yeah. >> Whereas other people might not, but then people that say like Barack Obama, he had status just almost universally. >> And it's it's actually interesting because each one of those people has status for different reasons.
42:58 So, Alex Hormozi because of what he's achieved, I think we appreciate Chris Williamson because of the way he considers problems and considers language. And Mark Manson maybe for a similar reason. Barack Obama because of the way he tackled problems as well, actually. but it it shows that status can derive from different roots. >> Can I go off topic a little bit and I want to discuss something I listened to the other day. It's about taste. How many people do you know legitimately have taste? Or are they just following what they've been told is tasteful?
43:36 >> Yeah, I don't think anyone has taste. I think it's very select. >> The ability to be able to discern taste is I think a lost art now, right? Like how many people can actually discern taste and say You go. You go. >> Well, the other thing I was going to say is and how much of it is not like versus dislike. It's are people just doing the I don't like things because it's countercultural to if most people like something? But I I had a genuine one of these where I thought for myself for a change and I was very happy.
44:10 >> I damn. >> I don't know if you've got it over there in Australia, but the the gentleman on Netflix. >> Of course we got the gentleman. Yeah, loved it. >> And season 2 came out. >> Yep. >> And it was terrible. >> I don't think it lived up to season 1. >> No, and I I can tell you why though, and this is how I know I thought about it cuz I've seen nothing on it.
44:34 >> Okay. >> I I watched season 2 and then made my decision. And the reason I didn't like it was because what the hell were they doing when they were editing that? It was a nightmare. There were so many different storylines. Like there were there were literal episodes where the main guy was in it like for 2 minutes. That's the story we're here for. >> The episode where they stole the baby was completely unnecessary. >> Yeah, completely unnecessary. And even introducing that other woman just to get married to her and then to have her die all within one season.
45:09 No. Yeah, if you if you're going to kill off somebody that should be a main character, let us build a connection with them so it hits. Don't introduce her within like I think maybe she was introduced at the end of season 1 maybe, if not very early season 2. And then it was like three episodes later dead. >> We should have really prefaced this saying spoilers alert because Kunal has just said I haven't seen season 2. So yeah.
45:33 It doesn't need to. Hopefully you swiped away. I would say season 2 didn't live up to season 1, but it was still very good, but neither season 1 or season 2 lives up to the movie. The movie is out standing. >> There's a movie? >> You've never watched the movie? >> Hold on, what? There's a film? >> There's a movie called The Gentlemen. It's with Matthew McConaughey as the lead. Charlie Hunnam and Hugh Grant. And it's and Who's the director that does The Gentlemen the series?
46:08 Guy Ritchie. And Guy Ritchie is the director in it. It's so damn good that movie, dude. Like you've got to watch it. >> Oh. >> Should be on Netflix. >> Yeah. >> That's what it's loosely based off. That's what the series is loosely based off. Same universe. >> That makes sense. Well, Guy Ritchie needs to buck his ideas up for season 3. >> Well, yeah, Kunal, you definitely need to watch the movie because The Gentlemen the movie unreal.
46:38 So good. Yeah, I reckon we leave it there, mate. We've smashed it. I think you need to do the outro because you're better at them than than I. But anyone that's watched, thanks and bye and subscribe and love you. >> that's watched as well is watching on shorts, that is useless to supporting us. If you could watch the horizontal version, that actually does stuff for us. If you haven't already, please subscribe. That's very important because then you'll you can turn on the notification bell and there's a 10% chance you will get chosen to get told that we're at live.
47:19 Thank you for watching. There is another episode coming soon. And but this week even, there's another episode coming out this week, isn't there? Yeah. and we'll see you all then. Bye all. Not bile as in b i l e. >>