John Cockerill India Ltd Q4 FY2025-26 Earnings Conference Call

0:01 Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to John Cochril India Limited Q1 and CY26 earning conference call. This conference call may contain forward-looking statement about the company which are based on the beliefs, opinions and expectation of the company as on date of this call. These statement are not the guarantee of future performance and involve risk and uncertainties that are difficult to predict. As a reminder, all participant line will be in the listen only mode and there will be opportunity for you to ask question after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchstone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Franuis David Martino, chairman for his opening remarks. Thank you and over to you sir.

0:54 Good afternoon everyone and thank you for joining us today on our quarter one calendar year 2026 earnings conference call and I am joined by Mimo our CFO we have uploaded our financial results and investor presentation on stock exchanges and companies website I hope everybody had an opportunity to go through the phase the first quarter of 2026 reinforces our confidence that the business is progressing in the right direction operationally, financially and strategically.

1:27 We have established a strong foundation for future growth by consolidating our growth businesses and integrating our metal business under a single entity in India. The benefits of these initiatives are now beginning to take shape and yes the number are stronger and the year has begun on a solid footing supported by an increase in order intake a health impending order book and sharp focus on execions. During the quarter we have witnessed strong order wings a growing order books and a robust order pipeline. We have also secured an order from JSW Steel for a CGL project valued at approximately approximately 4.4 billion rupees to 4.7 billion rupees.

2:17 As on March 2026, our standalone order stands at approximately 13 billion rupees and reflect a 101% yearon-year increase. Revenue for the quarters are two million rupees registering a growth of 16 year rupees. >> Sorry to interrupt your French >> but your voice is breaking it still. It's breaking. Is it? Yes. Is it better getting better now?

3:03 >> Yes sir. Please proceed. Thank you. >> Okay. So I will resume. So the revenue for the quarter stood at 2,000 million rupees registering a growth of 162% year on year. Standalone ABDA stood at 114 million rupees compared to a negative ABDA in the corresponding period last year. Standalone EBDA has improved significantly compared to last year and has remained stable over the last three quarters. However, margins were impacted compared to last quarter due to certain upfront cost related to hiring and organization alignment and the latest to prepare the business for a shifting product which higher proportion of large projects compared to value added services and service one object related consideration and integration activities hold within the standalone business which impacted overall ABDA.

4:05 This quarter marks the beginning of a new phase for DCL. While the headline numbers are encouraging, the most important takeaway is that the improvement is becoming increasingly sustainable. Structurally, the business is evolving into a more integrated and disciplined organization better positioned to align with the global direction of the ski industry. Key developments during the quarter includes the reorganization of the shell function which is beginning to deliver tangible benefits while the operational team is being strengthened proactively in anticipation of future growth and to ensure smooth execution capabilities as the business scales. Discipline cast management will remain a key focus area for the company.

4:54 The order pipeline remains very strong particularly with high quality order wins for market customers and we expect execution momentum to strengthen further over the coming quarters. We are witnessing strong demand from customers who are investing not only in capacity expansions but also in advanced processing capabilities, electrical seals, downstream quality enhancement and modernization initiatives. Several of the project wins and order pipeline indicates a direct reflection of these evolving industry trends.

5:30 Speaking about the consolidated financial performance, this mark the first quarter in which we are reporting consolidated results. That means the Q1 consolidated performance includes the operations of China, Belgium and Germany entities from January 2026 onwards. On a consolidated basis, the consolidated order book stands at approximately 33 billion rupees.

6:01 Revenue for the quarter stood at 3.4 billion, reflecting a 56% yearon-year growth. Abda turned positive at 49 million rupees compared to the negative ABDA of 14.9 million for the same period last year. ABDA margins stood at 1.4% largely impacted on account of integration cost and consolidation adjustments associated with the ongoing business integration.

6:33 Going forward, the cost structure is gradually aligning from the west towards India and China, which is expected to drive operational synergies and efficiency improvements over time, improving the margin trajectory. Impact on margins were also on account of our investments making development of new technologies. While these investments are impacting ABDA in the near term, they are expected to contribute meaningfully to future growth and long-term value creation.

7:06 Speaking briefly about steel industry, global markets remain mixed. Europe continues to face pressures from high energy cost and weak industrial sentiment while China despite remaining the world's largest steel producer is becoming more selective in capital expenditure which creator focus on advanced technologies and decodization. In line with this trend we are strengthening our presence in China. At the same time, geopolitical tensions in the Middle East are creating uncertainty across energy markets, logistic and commodity flows, which could lead to short-term volatility industrial sectors globally.

7:49 Against this backdrop, India continues to stand out as one of the strongest skill investment market globally driven by infrastructure spending, manufacturing growth, automotive demand, and renewable energy investment. and the shift towards higher values. This is creating long-term demand for advanced long stream processing lines, galvanizing lines, colding capabilities, electrical field processing and life cycle services area where TCL is strongly positioned.

8:22 The industry is also evolving with steel producers increasingly prioritizing efficiency, energy optimization for the quality, sustainability and decarbonization. Key strengths align well with the strengths of the joint concrete group technology portfolio. A key strategic milestone for the company is the consolidation of the group's metal business under the GCL platform. This is not just a structural integration but the creation of one integrated global metals business with India at the center of the operation execution and manufacturing combining technology expertise manufacturing strengths execution capabilities and access to one of the fastest growing steel market globally.

9:10 To conclude, I would say overall we are entering the next phase with a much stronger foundation, a stronger order book, improving execution capabilities and a more integrated global business platform with India continuing to remain one of the most attractive steam investment markets globally. We believe the growth opportunity ahead is significant. We also see significant long-term potential for new technologies such as dead vapor deposition which align with industry shifts towards high efficiency supply of cing quality and lower environmental impact. We remain committed to investing in this segment including the world's cing facility at Taloa which is expected to be commissioned shortly. This facility will introduce specialized coding capabilities in India with significantly faster turnar around times for customers.

10:08 While we remain focused on disciplined execution and long-term value creation, GCL today's operates with far greater clarity, capability and ambition than it did just a few years ago. The direction is clear. the platform is stronger and we are all well positioned for the next phase of growth. With this I will end my opening remarks and Mark and myself are happy to take questions. I will also take this opportunity to invite you to our annual general meeting for more detailed discussions on June the 12th the details of which will be soon available on our website. Thank you.

10:50 >> Thank you Franc. We will now begin with the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchstone telephone. If wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll wait for a moment while the question Q assembles. Our first question come from the line of Anancha from J Anan Securities. Please go ahead.

11:25 >> Yeah. Good afternoon sir. >> Hello. Am I audible? >> Yes, you are. Please proceed. >> Good afternoon Mr. Sha. >> Yeah. Yeah. Uh sir just firstly maybe due to poor audio quality maybe uh I could personally not understand a significant part of the address given by the chairman. I don't know maybe next time uh uh the the audio quality can get improved. Yeah. Uh firstly I would like like to take this opportunity to once again thank the parent for reposing faith in the Indian listed entity and for having done the game-changing deal of bringing the entire global steel equipment business under the fold of Indian listed entity.

12:15 Uh having said that uh regarding the quarterly performance uh on a standalone basis while the revenues have grown 160% on a year-on-year basis and 94% on a QQ basis the company has not uh witnessed any u benefit of operating leverage that we would have expected from such a dramatic increase in revenues. So can you please explain why uh when your revenues are at kind of all-time quarterly high levels uh the operating leverage factor didn't uh kick in and get reflected in the bottom line.

12:59 uh besides uh why did the employment cost shoot up by 34% on a YI basis and the increase in employment cost is much more dramatic when you look on a Qoq basis. Yes, these are primarily my two questions. Thanks sir. >> Thank you for the question. Uh maybe Malimo our CFO can take the question. There are three uh factors if you look. Yes, our revenue has increased. Our metal margin is stable but indeed you our structure cost has increased. And when you see this there are certain reason for this. First we have some upfront cost related to hiring and organ organization realignment.

13:45 >> So your your voice is not very audible. I don't know where what's the issue. Your somehow I'm sorry but we can hear him properly. >> Okay. Okay. Fine. Sir go ahead. >> I will repeat maybe more loud if you know me. So first of all there are certain upfront cost related to hiring an organization know realignment because we have the future growth to prepare. Then we have also a shift in our product mix. You see that we have we are getting the quarters over quarters.

14:17 We are adding new project big project with VW with TATA incal and those project uh compared to the value services there is a shift in the mix then there is a third point which is a kind of one-off we uh when we do this consolidation this integration of activity uh then yes there are some expenses due to consolidation uh support for running this uh uh to to go through through the bank etc. So those costs are kind of oneoff for uh allowing this consolidation.

14:57 So some are oneoff some are mix to summarize and some are again we are preparing the growth and that's the reason why we see this effect. >> Thanks sir. Thank you. Our next question come from the line of Watesh Subramanyan from Logix Consultant Private Limited. Please go ahead. Hi sir, >> good evening. Um, congratulations on the consolidation process. My question is uh sir can you give us an indication of u the order pipeline uh perhaps over the next uh 12 to 24 months uh what you are looking for. um basically say to 24 months down the line where do you expect the global order pipeline to be? That's question one sir. And second um in some of the previous um con calls of last year you had indicated that you might secure a largesized order from one of the government steel companies in India where we are developing a relationship.

16:04 Can you indicate some progress on that? >> Thank you for your question. So on the first question regarding the pipeline, our opinion is that the trend will be positive in the next 24 months. We expect um more orders coming in especially from number one the Indian market which is extremely dynamic and still investing heavily to double the capacity of the country uh for 2030.

16:35 Um while we are also uh taking good solid ground in China and we see also our order book in China growing pretty fast. The third aspect we see as a positive trend is that um green steel is slowly slowly in building its path um amongst uh steel mills and we also see um growing interest for JBD uh technology which should also uh translate in in more orders in the future.

17:09 Um regarding the the second question um which was again can you repeat the second question just >> yeah um I think we were um given the impression that apart from the private Indian steel making companies like JSW etc. Um you were also talking to the some of the Indian government-owned companies uh in steel making for a large order in terms of refurbishment of their old steel plants. This is indicated in one of the calls. So, and but you said the process takes some time. So, just wanted to know the progress on it.

17:45 >> Yes, exactly. So um we we signed as you may know one year ago a little bit more than one year ago minute of understanding with sil authority India limited and we are working on this um um let's say me memorandum to build up >> uh concrete and solid projects of investment in the future. Um I cannot disclose more than that for the time being. >> Okay sir great. Um so followup question is um say after this process of consolidation is over say a few quarters down the line where do you expect the operating margins to be sir as a percentage?

18:29 So we expect uh uh from the next quarter on improvement in in margins um due to the fact that the orders we have registered on Q1 uh and also the one we got um in the second half of the year in 2025 will start to um let's say uh translate into into positive results >> okay positive operating minds okay so so I can ask one more question.

19:02 >> Yes, sure. Go ahead. >> Um, so Walteron is a technology that's um mainly useful in the upstream process of the steel making uh especially when it comes to iron or mining etc. Considering that um India is also trying to expand its scope in iron or companies like NMDC, Vanta etc. Do you see prospects for Ultron orders in India? So uh volunron technologies belongs to the joint control group uh and is a very promising technology which has been developed with our cell. We are right now um um let's say fine-tuning our strategy or the next uh months to come uh and we'll be able to more to communicate more on on Volter. we see uh uh India as one of the the best possible country um for Volterron since Volterron is a technology which um operational costs are based on 70% on electricity and availability of iron or whatever the quality is. So we believe that India uh should follow the path of green steel through Volterron and the country is offering through let's say a solar farm uh green electricity and local iron a good base for good quality and uh price competitive uh production.

20:39 >> Okay. So I understand we'll hear more of this in the coming quarters. >> Correct. Got it sir. Thank you very much. I'll join the queue. >> Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Manan Pollia from MKP Securities. Please go ahead. >> Hi sir, good afternoon. Uh congratulations on posting a good set. U I just have one question on the new global entities that have been merged. I think you'd uh indicated in the last couple of calls that uh you'd be able to speak a little bit more about their businesses after they are integrated into uh JCI. I'm just curious if you could provide some color on what the global steel capeex cycle looks like for you and especially with what is going on globally uh as far as geopolitics is concerned. Are you seeing some slowdown in uh pipelines or order bids? If you could shed some light on that, that'd be great. Thank you.

21:38 So we see we see a mixed situation uh based on on different uh countries. U the the four main markets we are following up is India, China, US and Europe and there we are well established. I would say India represents for us a positive trend due to the fact that um John is able to offer uh even in China competitive price but especially new aided value technologies which are bringing our uh Chinese customers uh to invest in uh more competitive solutions. Even if the market goes down, a technology representing better quality and or better operational costs will always find its way uh even in a depressed or or slowing down market. Europe says standby market and will most probably see its biggest transformation next year. uh the uh European government is building up new uh quotas for import which will protect the local ships more and better in the future and that should bring more demand from the European market. The American market is a market representing the best um uh steel price for and we see there are also a lot of movements of consolidation of steel mills but also newcomers like Nippon steel uh who purchase a US and will most probably build a strong uh investment pipeline in the next years to come.

23:15 >> Great sir. Thank you. Just a quick follow up on that. Uh when you say that uh new technology will find a footing even when there is a order slowdown, is that to indicate that uh instead of new cape lines that come in, you will probably have more of an upgradation order book going forward and will that have a effect on your margins or working capital or anything of that sort. Yes, we believe that even in in in a slowdown situation and when some players has to replace the existing line which becames too old to perform, they will go to more aided value lines rather than cheap lines. This is the trend we see especially on the main major steel mills in China. Um and as a reminder reminder out of the top 10 biggest steel producers in in the world uh six of them are Chinese.

24:12 >> Great. Thank you. Thank you so much. >> Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Nidisha from Amir. Please go ahead. >> Hello sir. Uh am I audible? Hello. Yes, you are. Good afternoon. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, I just wanted some clarification in the presentation when we mentioned that Walteron is not part of the consolidation. So, I just wanted to know the revenues from uh the Walteron technology and the uh and the results will will it flow to John Cochril India?

24:56 So, Bolteron has no revenue yet uh due to the fact that uh it is uh ready for commercialization only since few weeks. So, we are refing completely the volteron uh strategy right now and especially we are conducting a reflection on how GCL will contribute and benefit from the volaron deployment in the future. This is under evaluation. Yes. >> Yeah. So whenever the revenue will show it will be uh a part of JCI right >> under one form or another um it will be the case. Uh right now it is too early um to communicate about that since we are in strate strategic discussion with the promoter who is the owner of the IP of one.

25:49 >> Okay. Thank you. And sir, one more question. Our consolidated order book as mentioned is around 3,300 cr. So I just wanted to know uh over how many years is this executable? >> Uh Mark, can you please reply to the question? >> Yeah. So is over. So could you repeat your question just to be sure we answer correctly? >> Yeah. for the consolidated order book as on March 2026 of 33,000 million it is executable it is executable over how many years >> uh our last project which is the majority of this uh order book uh is over three years uh we have the value services the value services which is a smaller portion of this uh is more kind of revamping of spare parts and this is more over 12 to 18 months but the vast majority is more over 3 years.

26:50 >> Okay. Okay. Thank you sir. That's all from my sense. >> Thank you. The next question come from the line of sumit with Century Investment. Please go ahead. >> Sumit. You may please proceed ahead with your question. >> Well, thank you for the opportunity. Uh I just wanted to add that since there is >> there's a background noise if you can check please. >> Thank you.

27:26 >> Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity. As I have seen that there is a consolidation of the metal business particularly. So we have not seen any operating leverage in this quarter particularly. So can you just guide post consolidation we can what are the margins we can expect and the financial and operating leverage will be playing. >> Thank you and good afternoon. Thank you for the question. I think this is a question for Mim. So first of all we we agree that the margin we uh we have the AIDA level we have is not what we are looking for and we are anyway working on improving our structure as we mentioned to you we are moving from west to east it will take some time but that's what we are working on a plan over the next 18 months. Um so we are aiming right now we have an epida at around consolidated at around 3% and it will go step step by step not we over what we are aiming is really be at more than 10% over the next three years and achieving already probably uh yeah we in the middle of the past beginning of next year.

28:37 Uh one more question I had that uh since uh uh is the company planning any in the near future so we can see any particular impact on the margins of the company. >> Uh the capex we are first an engineering company. So capex is limited even if we are right now for example investing in uh the roll cotting. So we are about to to we have the rosing activity starting. Um so capex is limited. It's not very capex intensive. So it's not the main effect. However, we must admit that our right now in our P&L one of the of the effect is we are um developing solutions, new solution, new technologies and this has an effect also on the EV cost that you see. So and unfortunately you don't see it yet on our revenue. Uh we are discussing about DVD and that's something which will come in the coming quarters but we are right now still investing on uh fine-tuning the technology. Same for volter. There are costs here and we are working on this but here it will be on more medium term. So our P&L is growing in terms of revenue. We still don't see completely the new technologies having the benefit. We see right now more the cost and the benefits. The benefits will come in the next quarters.

29:56 >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Our next question come from the line of Abhishek Sanangvi from Equinal Investment Managers. Please go ahead. Yeah. Uh congratulations for a good set of numbers. Uh the management had earlier indicated plans for fund raise which now appears to have been deferred. Could could the management explain the rational behind the deferment? And one more question on uh USA business. So earlier your previous presentation also mentioned that USA business will be consolidated later into KCI. Could management elaborate on likely timeline and the structure of the transaction?

30:38 Is it okay if we take it on? >> Sure. Go ahead. >> So on this funding board is still exploring options. We have another board which is evaluating the options and we have another board for seen in the next two to three weeks to come to better answers. Once we have complete clarity and we have already explored all the options which are available to us then we will uh revert with a better answer to be honest in the and we will of course uh inform uh on due time >> and what about the fund raise >> that's what I was saying on the fund raise we are right now looking at different we are exploring different options >> okay and H >> couple of months back the the promoters had diluted the stake. So will the will the shareholding be 74% or they will bring it or you guys will bring it down?

31:42 Any any update on that? >> At this stage first the shareholder has the right to to change at any time but right now I think we are in certain position and we think staying in this in this uh in this level Okay. Okay. And the US and and and and the update on USA business. >> USA is um we are still exp here also we are still investigating. Uh there are some technical issues on incorporating not incorporating on consolidating consolidating USA. So uh either we are able to achieve that by the end of the year or maybe would be discussion on maybe posting slightly but not not so much.

32:25 >> Yeah. Thank you. >> Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Munal Sha from MSFO. Please go ahead. >> Uh good evening gentlemen. I have couple of questions. One is uh you know you have stated that uh you would be paying not more than 500 crores for the acquisition of uh European, Chinese and US business. uh now that the European and Chinese acquisition is done which is roughly close to 320 odd crores and if I see your console and standalone revenue the difference is close to 600 crores.

33:07 So roughly you have paid uh you know uh uh five times uh revenue for Europe and Chinese acquisition and if I just do my maths and earlier corn call you had mentioned that consult will be close to 2,000 crores. So the US business you are acquiring roughly 1,000 crores revenues for 200 crores. Is my understanding right? Thank you for your question. Matt, do you want to take it as well?

33:48 So, uh first of all, uh we are not exactly in this range. Uh right now if you look at our SPA we have 50 uh we are paying the price overall is around 50 million euro out of which uh it's USA is included into this. So if you remove USA we are at a much lower price. Uh now USA is we we don't expect USA to be right now in the coming months at how much you say 600 million. No, you said thousand cr sold >> cr >> 10,000 million >> 10,000 10 million 10 million >> 10 billion >> 10 million no so no the the sales of USA will be uh it's really what what where we see the growth is not in so much in US it's really China Middle East and we will capture here is from India or from China so the price is mainly based on this uh USA is right now for the time being quite stable in revenue but are still chasing big orders and right now that's what we are waiting for. So are we reaching the level that you are seeing in USA at this stage? No, that's not what we see. It will be slightly lower.

35:03 >> No. So this the you have the the earlier call had mentioned 2,000 crores and now with all the combined entity excluding US is 1,000 crores. So that's the assumption that the balance 1,000 crores will be US revenues for which you'll be paying 200 crores. >> So it was not about the question was not about the growth. The question was about this uh this transaction actually. >> Will it be okay from your perspective that we take it offline and we discuss more the numbers together? uh because I think the numbers you have is not exactly uh what so we need to to find this. Is that okay to take it offline?

35:47 >> Sure. And secondly, there is some 66 crores of other income in console. What what does this 66 crores comprise of? >> 66 Here it's most of it. So on the other income line that's what you are referring to right uh sir >> pardon >> you are referring to the other income.

36:20 >> Yeah other income other income of most more than 60 crores in consolidated financial >> come from various sources but the key source is right now more uh financial interest. So basically there's lot of cash in Europe and Chinese business also. >> Uh there is lot of cash in uh mostly more in Asia. Uh but in Asia and in India but the number is not 600 cr. I mean it is just uh 9 cr actually.

36:53 >> No. So what does 66 cr comprise of them? 66 crores of other income. No, it's million. >> We are right now we are on million milliona rupees and we are at for this quarter at 93 million but we are full year >> from the full year on the full year. Yeah, but that's what we what what I was explaining. Most of it could be also some other income if you sell some assets for example but most of it most of it is again interest because of the cash >> entirely with the then the numbers that you because if there's it's such a huge interest income and you're telling that there is no >> I'm saying that there are two two factors sir one is the sales of assets you when you have old assets you sell of assets um and Then the scrap and you have also the gain on the interest.

37:57 >> Okay. So bulk of it is sale of assets. >> Part of it is sales of assets. Yes. Part of it is the scrap also that we sell because we have some scrap coming from our manufacturing but that's more a minor point but it's mostly sales indeed of assets for old assets. We needed to do some space in Taloa uh for uh the rosing. we had to uh to dismantle some old machines. Um so that's one key effect from last year and then indeed we have also the interest.

38:31 >> Okay. And one is how much is spare in uh service uh income for the year as a whole uh as a and what do you see that in next three four years time? >> So you if I understand your question I'm just rephrasing your question. You are asking how much is the value services in >> to Yes. Yes. Yes. >> Okay. We have seen clearly from last year to this year a shift of mix as mentioned to you. Uh we uh we see that we are over the next three to five years we are looking to be at around uh ideally 30 to 35%.

39:14 And so just just one small request you mentioned that you know the for my first question we can take it offline now how can how can I connect with you and you know >> we will uh team will make sure we we connect together. >> Sure. Thanks a lot. Thank you very much. >> Welcome. >> Thank you. Next question come from the line of Kamish Bagmar from Lotus Asset Managers. Please go ahead. >> Yeah. Uh thanks for the opportunity. So uh if I compare like say uh standalone versus console operations. So if we see the gross margins or the material margins which are there. So there is a stock difference between console and uh standalone margins. So roughly a gap of uh thousand bits there. So uh going forward like say as our uh overseas operations get consolidated more and more so where do we see our aida margins moving and because aida margin in standalone is at 5.7 while in case of console it's hardly around 1.4. So where do we see our margins like going forward? Will they converge with the standalone operation margins or it will remain at these levels for next couple of years.

40:40 So several factors here. Uh first again meant to you uh increasing the value services should help increase or more material margin. Uh and you see that by the way that you see that the matter margin percentage is higher outside of India because India is quite competitive. Uh then clearly as mentioned we we see the impact of having this consolidation. We see also the impact of having the R&D without having the revenue of this R&D. So we clearly where do we see improvement first on moving more and more activity from Europe to west to east that's what number one so getting the first synergy then of course having the revenue of the R&D that we are spending of the people that we are spending on developing the solution will clearly come uh when we will have orders in the next quarters.

41:34 So that should so both it will come both from additional revenues but also working on our structure as mentioned we are right now working on aligning the structure and streamlining it and that will you will not see immediately the effect but it will take maybe 12 to 18 months but we will we are working currently on this >> I mean going forward like uh uh we have a 3,000 odd code of order book so uh what is the mix there like say these uh code rolling mills or how much is the share of those particular uh uh uh segment in our total revenue because uh like say John Cochril is a big player in the carbon capture as well. So going forward how the mix would be in case of revenue mix uh like say how much would be the share of steel and various other metal energies or other segments.

42:31 Now we have in reality we have uh mostly two segments. We have different geography with different uh revenue and margins but we have really two segments. One is the processing and rolling at this stage which is more the core model. We have the second one is the value services uh and this is the one we expect also in the mix to grow to help us to improve our metal margin. The third one is really uh what we have the iron and steel but the iron and steel as mentioned we are developing that more new solutions and those new solutions are not yet we have the cost but we have not yet the revenue. So uh how much will be the iron and steel if we move forward can be really much big um but right now there are still discussion with the potential prospect but we have no contract in arms so we need to be careful of what we say. So coming to what you said >> so Mark let me let me complete let me complete on that. So in the steel industry upstream which is the liquid steel phase is 70% of the total and overall investment. So we are coming from a downstream business which is representing 30%. So by developing the upstream we are opening up our revenue potential uh at least 2.5 times more and better than what we have done in the past. So while we have this prospect we also need to have the right technologies which uh we are aiming to develop with voltron and electrical art finishes in the future. So that's something we are working on today. It is uh the investment time as Mark mentioned. Uh we hope that in the next months to come and next year would be the harshest time.

44:19 >> Okay, great. Thanks a lot. >> Thank you ladies and gentlemen. That was the last question for today. I I would like to hand the conference over to the management for the closing remarks. Thank you and over to you. >> Thank you very much for your attendance. We were extremely glad and happy to exchange with you again and as we mentioned we still are open uh to continue some exchanges offline. Uh the team remains available for uh building up the contract. Thank you and have a great day.

44:52 >> Thank you sir. Ladies and gentlemen on behalf of John Cochril and Dometic that conclude this conference. Thank you for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines.