#28 Dan Sutcliffe: What it takes to build world class legs

0:00 All right, guys. Welcome to Beyond the Muscle. I'm excited to welcome our next guest, Dan Suckliffe. So, Dan is back on the podcast. We first chatted way back on, I believe it was episode 5, and we, yeah, basically summarized his 2024, how he got into bodybuilding and a brief insight into training and his mindset. yeah. So, today I wanted to delve into the topic of leg training with Dan. So, Dan has some of the best legs of any natural bodybuilder in the country in my opinion. and we're yeah, we're gonna try everything leg trading in this one and yeah, it's gonna be a fun one. So, yeah, how are things going down on your own? Yeah, great. Yeah, really good.

0:37 Thank you very much for having me on again. It's was a real pleasure the first one and yeah, thank you for the kind words. So, yeah, looking forward to sort of getting stuck into some more kind of yeah, leg specific training, lower body training. Yeah. No, I thought this could be a fun fun topic this one. yeah, just briefly, how's how's your off season going down? You look like you're making some good progress with all of your your training. Yeah, it's going going really well.

1:06 it it's it's probably the best most productive sort of start to offseason I've had. So training's very progressive. Really, really enjoying training at the moment. And that is that is the main thing for me. If you're enjoying your training, I think it's it's it's not easy, but it's it's makes the the whole process easier for sure. and yeah, when you when you start to to to sort of notice improvements in performance, in strength, you know, it makes the whole process a whole lot more enjoyable. And, yeah, it's going really well at the moment. So, touchwoods. so we're sort of maybe 6 months until the end of this kind of offseason phase, this kind of improvement phase and then we're looking to sort of start prep maybe early next year if all things go well. So yeah, just making the most of it really and just trying to make it as as productive as possible. Yeah. Yeah, that's good to hear. And that yeah, that enjoyment aspect you touched on. I think that's so important. I think it's so tempting to chase optimal when it comes to bodybuilding training, especially with like all the information you're bombarded with online that yeah, people can overlook that enjoyment factor and yeah, that's it's so important I think.

2:20 Sure. Yeah, you hit the nail on the head there. so yeah, we chatted briefly about your leg training in the last episode and yeah, I'd like to go into a bit more detail this time and kind of approach it from a few different angles. First off, like mindset when it comes to training legs. So I'm a believer that you need to kind of almost have like an extra level available when it comes to leg training when it comes intensity.

2:41 Mhm. So intensity let's say it's like a 10 for upper body. It has to be like an 11 for legs in my opinion. yeah so head down no distractions kind of and I will often get like some anxiety before training legs. Not the isolation stuff but more the heavy compound stuff. How do you approach leg training from a mindset perspective then? Yeah I 100% agree. Firstly, 100% agree with that with with you know that you have to be able to tap into like another level. It is it is totally different to training any other muscle group in my opinion. You have to sort of really want to go there to to that point to that next level, unlock that kind of that that mindset of, you know, I'm I'm going to I'm going to suffer, you know, and that sounds that sounds extreme.

3:30 Mhm. but that that's that's how it feels when you are sort of pushing your lower body training to to the limit and and that's kind of the level that I think you need to take it to be able to make sort of serious improvements in in your lower body. It's it's obviously it's more fatiguing. It's more systemically taxing. It's it's it's harder, you know, it's more painful. There's more stress on the body. there's more stress on the m muscles. and you know, it's not like training, you know, your arms or your, you know, your your upper body in that respect.

4:08 And I think you have to sort of really tap into that mindset of you know approaching every single leg session with you know aggression and intent and sort of really sort of throw everything at those sessions in order to be able to improve and progress and to sort of really take it to that next level in my in my opinion. Yeah. Yeah. No, I'd agree with that definitely. And yeah, there's definitely like a difference between even I think doing like a heavy heavy back work, heavy chest work, there's definitely a difference. I mean, that stuff's hard, but yeah, you're right. It's not quite as systemically fatiguing, it seems. I think deadlifts, I mean, I would often I don't do conventional deadlifts anymore, but I'd often do them on my upper body day when I did do them. And that was Yeah. That was analogous to doing like a squat pattern movement that you had to have the same kind of mindset for like a heavy deadlift. Exactly. But yeah, apart from that, yeah, it's just different, isn't it? Electro training is just Yeah, it's just different. I think that and that's maybe why a lot of people just don't have the the best legs cuz you need to go to that extra level. Yeah.

5:14 Yeah. You can't It's not It's not a sort of a session you can halfass or sort of go in with a mindset of I'm tired. I'm I can't be bothered today. I'm not feeling it. you're you just you're setting yourself up to fail if if you do that. you know, you have to sort of get your mind right before you go in. and be sort of really willing to sort of work for it. And yeah, like you said, you know, deadlifts, it's the same sort of thing, isn't it? You know, if you're doing deadlifts on a on a back day, like a posterior day, it's the same sort of thing. You have to go into those kind of exercises, those kind of sessions with your mind has to be 100% in it. you can't be sort of distracted by other things going on or you know like you say headphones on world off get your get your mind right first because you know as cliche as it sounds if your mind's not right then your body's just not going to it's not going to play ball so you have to be get get your head you know in the game first focused and yeah be willing to work for it and yeah it's a it's a totally different sort of approach I suppose to to training. Yeah, totally agree there. Yeah, it's funny. I was meant to train legs today fittingly on this on this leg chat, but yeah, I annoyingly tweaked my knee at the weekend. Oh, no.

6:37 Playing with the kids. Yeah, just on this kind of bouncy trampoline thing at the of the farm near us and I thought, you know, I'm not I'm not going to give it an extra day's rest because I thought I have to be I can't risk, you know, completely messing up my my knees for leg training. So, yeah. Yeah, it just speaks that mindset. I thought, yeah, if I'm going to do it, I'm going to do it properly. But Exactly. Yeah.

6:59 How are you? have you stayed mostly injuryfree over the years down with regards to like your lower body? Yeah, touchwood. I I have touchwood, I haven't had any major major injuries to this point. it's a good question. I I I think I have been I' I've had niggles, don't get me wrong. I've I've had niggles which have and setbacks during during my sort of training career I suppose. and I suppose over time it's it's learning to sort of work around these kind of niggles cuz there's always something you know especially you know we've been training sort of 15 20 years and you know not as young as I you know once was when I first started training.

7:46 sort of you feel like you're kind of invincible when you're sort of like in your late teens, early 20s, don't you, in your training, but you you know, you don't don't really sort of pick up niggles like that. But whenever I've I've felt a niggle or something that's not quite right, I've always found a way to work around it. so, you know, if for example, I I have felt like I've got maybe, you know, a bit of a lower back issue or complaints or a bit of discomfort, a little bit of pain, I've you know rather than sort of push pushed through it, I I've sort of taken a step back and and and sort of tried to analyze what's going on here, you know, why is that? Is it, you know, too much volume, too much weight? Is my form correct? Is my execution as good as it could be?

8:38 and sort of really sort of try to analyze whether or not there's anything I can be doing better to sort of, you know, work around that issue, mitigate that issue, change the exercise, you know, exercise variations, and really not be sort of married to to one particular exercise. Mhm. if it isn't for whatever reason if it isn't sort of working at that specific time. There have been times where for example I have I've I've run conventional deadlifts in my program for a long period of time and I've tweaked my back you know not not not horrendous injuries but there's been like a muscle muscle strain or something like that in my sort of lower back.

9:23 and yeah, as frustrating as it is at the time, you know, your body's telling you there's something something needs to change here. You can't just continue to hammer away. so I' I've switched that exercise out for like a, you know, a like for like variation, a like for like alternative like a Romanian deadlift or you know, a dumbbell alternative, stiff leg deadlift, that kind of thing. try to keep the the exercise as similar as possible to what I was previously doing but find an alternative so you're still getting that stimulus you're not further aggravating that injury and you know touchwood it's kind of it's kind of worked well for me I I think to start off with the the the sort of you know the basic fundamentals need to be applied and that is adequate range of movement on any exercise that you're doing. so that you're you're actually targeting the, you know, the the the muscles that you're you're trying to to target. Yeah. It's not just causing joint pain, joint discomfort, you know, full range of movement squats, full range of movement leg press, full range of movement leg extension, leg curls. No matter what exercise it is, your form and execution has to be 100%, you know, there before you start loading up the weight. and that has to be number one thing. So, range of movement, execution, and just generally sort of like listening to sort of feedback that your body's giving you.

11:02 And if there is anything that doesn't seem right, doesn't feel right, doesn't feel great, then sort of working out what is going on. analyzing that that feedback and sort of just working around it really. And o over the years I've got better at doing that. Yeah. yeah, maybe in my younger years I was just like, you know, it's fine, whatever. It's just it's just a little pain. I'll just push through it. And you tend to get away with it when you're younger.

11:27 but not so much now. And I kind of have to be a lot more aware of it these days when I'm you know, pushing the amount of weight that I am like compared, you know, in relative terms. It's a lot more than what I was lifting sort of 5 10 15 years ago. So, you have to be a lot more. You have to manage your recovery a lot better and listen to that kind of feedback, you know, to what your body's telling you because there's there's always something, isn't there?

11:53 There's always some kind of like sort of little niggle that we're working around or some kind of complaint or discomfort. And you got to sort of rather than just keep hammering away hammering away at the same thing, banging your head against the wall, you got to think right what can I do to to mitigate that kind of that that discomfort or pain. Yeah, that's a really solid advice there. You mentioned that you've you've often had to like swap an exercise for another like a like for like movement. Can you recall any times when training lower body you've had to just have time off have time off train because of an actual injury at all?

12:32 Not. So, luckily enough, I haven't had any time off training a specific muscle group or specific area or take let's take lower body as an example. I haven't ever had to take any prolonged period of time off of training a an area. So, like lower body. I have always found a way around it. and and so that might be that might be as simple as you know, let's take the lower back as a as a as an example. I've had a back sort of injury. Let's let's call it a lower back sort of strain, muscle strain. Yeah.

13:11 I've still managed to train and that might mean taking your loading out of your lower body training completely. So no lower back sort of loaded exercises. So that mean that might mean for a period of time not doing any squats, not doing any hinge movements or any deadlifts. that might even mean you can't do any leg press. That might mean you can't do any lunges or any split squat variation, but you can still do leg extensions. You can still do leg curls, you can still do calves, you can still do adductors. you know, there's still there there's always, you know, unless unless you've literally got, you know, a serious injury whereby your lower body is unable to function. Mhm. Then nine times out of 10, there's a way there's a way around it. Yeah. Yeah. you know, I've taken a week off of training before when had an injury and it's sort of, you know, it's my my body's maybe time to like or or sort of sign to say take some time off of training and I've taken like an extended dload, so maybe like a 7-day de lo and that just means that obviously I'm not training for that seven days and things have improved in that seven days.

14:23 I've managed to sort of go back into to sort of regular training. Yeah. So, I suppose I have been, you know, fortunate up until this point that I haven't had to take any extended period of time off of training, but I've always found a way to sort of work around any issues or injuries that I've had over the years. Yeah, that's a really important take home, I think, because I think it's tempting for especially as bodybuilders, I think, the way we're kind of wired generally to when we have like a little like that, we we can kind of blow it up in our head and catastrophize it.

14:54 Yeah. catastrophizing it a lot worse than it really is and you think, "Oh, you know what? S this I'm just not going to train for a week. I'm I'm going to not train legs for a few weeks and then and then all of a sudden you're a month down the line and things have gone terribly downhill." So, and I've been there before when I was way less experienced. Whereas now, you have got the same mindset. I kind of adapt.

15:11 but yeah, I think it's it comes with experience, doesn't it? Being able to adapt and not let things spiral out of control. I'm curious as well, Dan. He do you look forward to leg training more than upper body? I yeah I I'm weird. Like I absolutely love it. I absolutely love it. And I going back to sort of you know your sort of first question about you know mindset. I I really think that that is that that is a massive factor in how I've managed to sort of develop my legs over the years.

15:43 I I never used to have this kind of mindset towards leg training specifically. It was really just a tick box, checkbox exercise where, you know, it's classic. Oh, it's leg day today. It's going to be it's going to be hard. you know, can't be bothered. I'm I'm, you know, low on energy today or, you know, whatever. now nowadays, I really look forward to it. I really look forward to it. And, you know, I'm thinking about it the day before. I'm, you know, it's it's something I really sort of I'm excited to do. and was it that changed? What was it that switched that mentality?

16:22 It's a good question. It's a good I I tell you what, I think probably what it was was actually seeing seeing development and seeing like actually physically seeing the changes in my in my leg development. when I actually started when I actually started training them properly and I started to apply myself better towards my my training in general but but my my lower body training specifically and I think the the development itself and seeing those visible changes you know I could I could see from from you know from the the difference from when I wasn't really taking it seriously to actually like really applying myself properly and being consistent with it and seeing those changes. I was like, "Okay, wow. Okay, it it does work."

17:09 Like, you know, if you apply yourself properly and you are sort of consistent with it, you will see changes. You know, you will see changes in a a pretty relatively short space of time. provided you are doing everything in your power to sort of, you know, to to to grow a muscle group. And that's the same with any muscle group. But, you know, especially in lower body training, you can see you can see when your your your quads have improved, can't you?

17:36 It's it's a big muscle group. it it's quite obvious. when you start to lift more weights with the same amount of reps and the same form, the same execution, you're putting more weight on the bar. you know you're progressively overloading and your your physique is responding in the same you know in the same way and it's it's that that sort of correlation of progressive overload and improve in performance is correlated with an improvement in your physique or improvement in your leg development like okay okay now now this is this is good this is working. Yeah.

18:16 Yeah. and I think ever since then I'm just sort of like I'm just my mindset is like yeah I'm you know I'm because I'm applying myself properly now I can actually physically see like tangible evidence that it is you know improving the the areas that I'm sort of like trying to to to build up and you know although I've kind of my leg development has been very good over the last sort of I'd say five years They were never that that good before that. It's only because I've actually started to apply myself properly in the last, you know, maybe since I started started to compete in 2018, actually seen them sort of improve dramatically. Yeah. And now you enjoy training more, which is a really important message. Exactly. Yeah. I think the two go hand in hand. I really do. I think you know Yeah. It's like what came first, the the chicken or the egg. But, you know, you have to you have to enjoy your training to be able to see progress, but at the same time, you have to, you know, you almost have to see a little bit of progress before you actually start enjoying it as well.

19:23 Yeah. the two obviously do work hand in hand. but yeah, it's definitely a mindset shift o over the years. Yeah, that's that's an interesting one there. Yeah. on our last chat, we briefly touched on like the topic of genetics. yeah, there's no doubt obviously it's an important piece of the puzzle when it comes to leg training. I say when it comes to my own like leg, my own quads. They're they're a strong point in my physique. I don't have like four bests trophies like you do. I only one.

19:52 But, yeah, I want to get I think I can get some more. Obviously, if you don't show up, but I feel some of that on my own physique is like due to li limb length. I'm quite short limb in my lower body. So, in my head at least, they don't need to because they're they're short, they don't need to be as big to look impressive. I could be completely wrong there. your own like obviously legs, you're they're obviously a very a strong point for yourself. You mentioned that you were a hyperresponder when it came to weight training when you first started, but did your legs tend to grow quicker than other body parts or was it just everything all at once?

20:27 Well, interestingly enough, when I first started training, I didn't really train my legs. So I actually they they they weren't hyper respponsive because I didn't train them properly. Yeah. And and so it would be interesting to see well obviously go back 15 years. Interesting to see if I actually trained them properly like I was my upper body whether they would have responded. I I think they the answer to your question is probably yes, they would have done because obviously like you say genetics obviously play you know a big role in in well any sort of muscle development but yeah I was I'd say a hyper respponder to training in in general when I first started training when I was sort of like 18 19 years old but I was really only training my upper body properly. You know legs were a little an afterthought. It was I was the classic oh it's leg day is today but I'm going to train arms today. Right. Right.

21:22 Yeah. now I'm the total opposite. So interestingly enough when I first started training maybe say 15 years ago they weren't hyper responsive because I wasn't training them properly. But when I start actually started training them properly and sort of applying myself as I should have been from the start maybe six seven years ago. That's when they started sort of like, you know, responding really well. Yeah. Okay. So, it's hard to say, but yeah, they potentially would have grown. I Yeah, I imagine they would have done just because just because, like you say, genetics and because everything else was responding well anyway, you know, there's there's no reason why they wouldn't have done, you know, had I sort of applied the, you know, the same level of effort and consistency and application to them as I as I should have done in the first place. Yeah.

22:10 but yeah, I mean I was training upper body if I was training six times a week and I was probably training upper body five out of those six days. Yeah. Yeah. You know, classic bro split. And then when it came to leg day, I was I was finding an excuse not to do it or not do, you know, not to train legs properly or I'd sort of do a bit of legs and then tag arms onto the, you know, the end of it leaving like 10 reps in reserve or like Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. And it was like squats, what, you know, what are those? You know, it was Yeah. It wasn't good. but yeah I mean I've obviously since since then they have they have developed well since actually applying myself and I suppose that's that's a good lesson isn't it for anyone you know it's never too late you know I actually I started training my legs properly maybe seven eight years into my my training career and they've they've still responded very well. So yeah that's yeah that's a good point in there. Yeah I mean undoubtedly your yeah your quads are probably your strongest body part. I don't know yet for sure, but they're they're definitely up there right now. I agree. Yeah. And the thing is my my I'd say up until recently, my hamstrings were were a weaker muscle group in comparison to my quads. And so I then started applying more volume, frequency, intensity to my hamstring training to bring them up, you know, and they've responded well.

23:33 So, you know, it just goes to show like obviously genetics of course play a big part in it. but you actually have to, you know, fulfill that kind of genetic potential and and and actually train those muscle groups with enough frequency, volume, intensity, you know, great execution. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Putting the work in. That's that's clear. That's clear to see. And you're doing some pretty ridiculous weights on the RDL's at the moment as well. how it might be too early to tell, but can you see that translating into some new muscle tissue as well? Hope so. I hope so. I must admit I I I yesterday I trained them yesterday and yes that was a that was like a one rep PB and and and you know they are an exercise which work really they work really well for me. And this this is this is kind of where experience kind of comes in now to to sort of picking exercises which suit you. And there is a little bit of trial and error that is involved in this. Like I said to you previously, I was trying to I was trying to sort of build up my conventional deadlifts and each time I did I was I was running into problems whether that was a little niggle or just didn't feel right. it just didn't feel as I I I wasn't getting the same kind of stimulus, same kind of connecting, same kind of mind to muscle kind of connection as I do with an RDL. And I've had RDL's in my program for as long as I can remember. And they are still progressing.

25:10 you know, it's one of those things that will start to suffer when you're dieting, when you're on prep, when you're starting to lose body weight, and the numbers will start to, you know, maybe sort of regress over over time. But I've always I I've always felt that even during the sort of like the latter stages of prep, I've been able to sort of I've been able to get a really good stimulus out of them. and and as a you know for for a posterior chain builder they have been the most kind of beneficial and I suppose loyal exercise to me over over the last sort of few years. Yeah. and is it is just literally just a case of rinse and repeat not sort of you know they have in terms of in terms of performance over the last few weeks they have stalled a little bit almost I've had to sort of de lo reset sort of bring the weight back down sort of make sure that I'm still getting that same stimulus still getting that same mind to muscle connection as I was previously still getting that same execution and and just building it back up again. And you know, like I say, over the last sort of maybe three or four weeks, it's been very stagnant, very sort of slow moving. And just getting that extra rep yesterday Mhm. was, you know, that's a big win. That's a big win. Still, they're still progressing. And so I suppose that's a, you know, a good example of just being just being stubborn sometimes with a movement. If it if it feels good and it feels you still you're still getting a good stimulus from it and it's still an exercise which works well for you, it feels good, but it's starting to plateau and it's starting to get a little bit stagnant, you know, stick with it. And as long as you're doing everything you can from like a, you know, recovery perspective, it will eventually sort of start to progress again. pro provided you are sort of you know you're patient with it and you're doing everything you can from you know recovery perspective as well.

27:14 Yeah. Yeah. Solid advice there. yeah I'd be curious to hear this too D. So I'd like to touch on your your training frequency. So you mentioned in the last podcast that we did that you were only hitting legs always only hitting quads once per week. this is actually of interest to me cuz I'm trying to actually go from a 5day split to a 4-day split with a bit more intensity on my own training. close proximity to failure and yeah, a bit less volume and I'm curious to see how that that will pan out for me. But did you notice like a drop in growth like from swapping your quad volume from twice to once a week at all?

27:51 No, not at all. In fact, in fact, probably the opposite. but what I will say, what I will say the caveat to that is that when I was training them twice per week, I was certainly not training them with the same intensity as what I do now. so definitely further away from failure. So, definitely less intensity, potentially more more volume in terms of like working sets across the week when I was doing two sessions a week. but now I'd say my quality of of of leg training is definitely much better than it was sort of when I was training them twice per week. When did you make that switch out of curiosity?

28:40 when did I make that switch? Probably probably five to six years ago now. I would say a fairly long time ago. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'd say somewhere between maybe my 2018 and 2021 season. So, so my first bodybuilding season in 2018, I was training twice per week then. Yeah. I then sort of then switched to more of a like a a bro split after and that's when I started training them once per week. But what but what I was doing was then I was then applying more volume to other areas and it wasn't like a traditional bro split. I was for example on my back days which I sort of now call a sort of a posterior day. I was I was doing RDL's or a hip hinge on my my back day. So I was still hitting hamstrings, glutes, erectors, you know, on on my back day even if it was just two sets of deadlifts or two sets of RDL's. So, I wasn't training I was only training quads once per week. Yeah.

29:46 But I was hitting the hamstrings, glutes, lower back twice per week. Got it. and and that was because, you know, I realized that my my quads were a strong point and I needed to apply that effort and apply that volume to other muscle groups and prioritize other muscle groups. But what I will say is that if I was trying to, let's say I was, you know, giving someone some advice now as, you know, how to bring your legs up. Yeah. I definitely wouldn't be training them once per week. I would definitely be training them at least twice per week.

30:21 because they are, you know, they they will, like any muscle group, they will respond well to to more frequency. Mhm. provided you are recovering and you're not, you know, you're not sort of overdoing that volume in in in those in those two or three sessions that you're doing. Yeah. so I would say the the the main sort of gains were made in the early years when I was training them twice twice per week.

30:54 now that they are a strong point and you know a more developed muscle group I can afford to only train them once per week. Yeah. So yeah you were saying you you still approach even if you're only doing legs once a week you approach legs with the same yeah level of intensity basically and that I think that's the key thing there isn't it? Yeah, you know, it's a higher level of intensity. Definitely the proximity to failure, you know, more intent and but you can you can still apply that if you were trying to grow your lower body if you know your lower body was a a weakness. If you wanted to bring up your legs, for example, you could still train legs, you know, twice per week, for example, like I like I was doing previously with that same intent. You just have to sort of manage your recovery and and manage your volume a little bit differently. You know, at the moment, I can sort of go into my sessions with, you know, knowing I've only got one leg session per week. Mhm. leave like nothing on the table and just go absolutely balls to the wall and leave nothing left knowing that I've got sort of like a week to recover really. but obviously if you were to train your legs twice per week and you were sort of training your legs say every 3 to four days you would have to sort of be very mindful of that recovery period making sure that you are actually recovered enough in time for your next leg session. So that's where kind of volume would need to be managed a little bit a little bit better and just be sort of more mindful of Yeah. making sure that you are actually sort of recovering from session to session. Yeah. No, it's a good point. Yeah. Because I find whenever I do a hip hinge movement, it could be I could have doms for three three to four days. despite being relatively like experienced in those movements, they just always get me and yeah, they take a long time to recover. yeah, going back to that I, you know, intensity, I've seen how hard you train legs and people should go and see like you failing on certain movements because it's a it's a true testament obviously the work you put in.

33:00 when it comes to proximity to failure, I yeah, upper body I tend to take everything pretty much to failure and beyond in some cases where it's applicable. With legs, I think it's a little bit different. on an RDL I can get like a grinder rep out and then rack the bar because I know that the riskreward may not be worth going for another one for like a pendulum or hack squat I can utilize some rest pauses what's your proximity to failure like on on legs generally broadly speaking broadly speaking if it's safe to do so I will I will go to absolute mechanical failure like muscular failure and you hit the nail on the head there. When it comes to things like a an RDL, a free weight exercise, maybe a barbell back squat as an example, if it's not safe to go to absolute failure, Mhm. then I won't. So, you know, I I will maybe leave one or two reps in the tank because, like you say, sometimes that risk to reward just isn't worth it.

34:06 And you know failure is going to look different depending on what the exercise is. So if you are if you are going to absolute like muscular failure or mechanical failure where your form breaks down on a an RDL or like a deadlift or like a barbell back squat, you're just, you know, you're going to fold in half. you going to one potentially cause injury and two that last rep was you know you would have been better off saving yourself and being able to apply you know that kind of that intensity and that kind of proximity to failure to an exercise which is safer to do so. It's safer to go to go to that point that absolute point of of muscular failure. And if you're taking like a, you know, a hack squat as an example, pendulum squat, leg press, leg extension, those are all safe exercises to take to absolute failure and potentially beyond as well. You know, it's safe to fail and and you know, some of the maybe some of the the exercises that you've seen me do when I I've failed. I I've known that it's safe to do that. I I'm sort of going into the set knowing that if all else failsite quite literally if I fail nothing's nothing bad's going to happen here. Whereas with a barbell back squat if you haven't got a a spotter or with a deadlift and you're going for that grinder rep Mhm. and you and you fail one you're potentially going to you know injure yourself. your your execution isn't going to be quite the same as at the start of your set or in the earlier on in the in in the set.

35:55 And two, you're not getting the best stimulus out of that, you know, out of that last rep. You're not able to, you know, out of the the target musculature. Yeah. Yeah. Because other things are other things are taken over. you know, you're you're having whereas before, you know, taking an RTL as an as an example, you were feeling it in your hamstrings, your glutes, you know, you you're able to brace properly, your your your abs were engaged, your lats were engaged, you know, in that last rep that you're taking to absolute failure, I can guarantee that none of that is the case.

36:33 And so, you know, most of the time I will sort of I maybe leave a rep in the tank there. Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. Might look at the set and go, he probably could have got another one. And that's probably true. True. But at what cost? Yeah, exactly. kind of working out, like you say, weighing that weighing that sort of riskto-reward kind of ratio up and and and working out and and sort of like almost sort of being present and mindful during the set and working out like what is where to sort of like where to stop the set and where to sort of like you know, you know, leave it there. Live to find try and get try and get another rep next time. Yeah, I know that makes that makes sense. going back to let's say you're doing a a pendulum squat or a hack squat or one of those big, you know, squat pattern quad movements. Do you tend to favor doing less sets closer proximity to failure? Because in my mind at least, do let's say you got three or four sets of a big you're going to be leaving a lot in the tank. You're going to be on set one thinking, I've got another set of this, I've got another set. Do you tend to do like a top set and a back off or two heavy sets as opposed to doing three sets and more for that reason? Now I do. Yes. Now I do.

37:46 Yes. I didn't I never used to do that. Definitely in the last in the last few years I've definitely tended to I've I've tended to favor that approach. I feel like I can get more out of the exercise. Yeah. I I feel I can I can absolutely take it there, you know, to you know closer proximity to failure like you say, not leave anything in the tank and and then move on. you know that exercise is done, move on to the the next exercise. Whereas if I was to do say take a hack squat as an as a as an as as an example, you're not doing three to four sets on a hack squat to absolute failure. 10 RP, zero reps in reserve. Like it's just well unless you're some kind of genetic freak that's not happening. Or if you do, you're not then going to have a productive session after that. Yeah. you know, if you're then going to go and do some leg pressing or some leg extension or some lunges after doing three to four sets of pack squats at, you know, absolute, you know, like going to absolute failure with nothing left in the tank. Yeah.

39:01 It's not happening. It's not happening. so yeah, these days I would I tend to favor a top set and a back offset. Mhm. On most compound exercises. So taking legs as an example, I would tend to favor a top set and a back offset on a hack squat. Same on a leg press. Mhm. Same on an RDL or a hinge. Yeah. Same on a split squat. They are very like basically the exercises which are very systemically fatiguing, right? I personally find that I cannot recover if I do any more than than two sets of most, you know, those those big exercises, big compound exercises, things like leg extensions and and leg curls and calf raises and adductors as well. I you can recover quicker from those. you know, they're it's less systemically fatiguing, less taxing on the central nervous system.

40:04 You can recover from them. You can go again. You can sort of build up volume that way by doing by doing more sets. I still take them to to failure. Yeah. when it's safe to do so, but I tend to do less sort of overall sets for the compound exercises because I I like when I when I do a top set and a back off set on something like a hack squat for example, I'm done. Like, you know, I'm not then going to be able to I'm not not going to then be able to complete another set after that. And so, it just becomes junk volume. It just becomes you're just doing it for the sake of it because you know so and so said to do three sets of 10 to 12 you know that's what I used to do. Yeah. When when did you make that change out of curiosity then? So when I when I started to when I sort of started to think about how close am I taking these sets to failure. Yeah. think like looking back on it now thinking back to sort of maybe five six years ago when I used legs for example I wasn't taking sets to to complete failure I was able to do three four sets of an exercise of a back squat of a leg press of a lunge of a split squat of a deadlift because I was leaving maybe three four five reps in in in reserve and if you want to train like that that's that's okay But are going to end up acrewing a lot of sets and accumulating a lot of volume through yeah through set volume because you know something there has to be that sort of there has to be that kind of accumulation of volume somehow and and that you're not going to take your sets to absolute failure or close to it then that that will mean then maybe doing more more sets of the compound exercises that we're talking about.

42:12 but it's just not the way I like to train. I just I don't find it anywhere near as enjoyable. No, I'm the same. Yeah, I actually don't think I think it's actually mentally harder as well just because of the sheer amount of volume you have to acrew. It's a bit too intimidating where you know that if Yeah. you you've got to really go all out with these sets of you know two or these you know two sets rather but you know that there's not like a ton of volume to do it's it's easier to manage I find in a way even though it's harder it's easier agree yeah yeah I'll be honest I'll hold my hands up and say that yeah I probably spent a lot of my time just not training hard enough I look at some of my sets even from last year during prep and I think I could have pushed pushings more there I went a bit too deep into the whole kind of full rom you know, leaving reps in reserve, your RP style of training, and I think my physique suffered as a result, and I think, yeah, there should hopefully be a big difference going forward. Now, I'm training harder. but yeah, I think, yeah, beyond a bit of tendonitis, I've never had that bad of an injury that, yeah, I feel I should have. Yeah, potentially trained harder, but yeah, I'm I'm kind of writing that wrong now.

43:20 Do you think there is a a case of people just not training hard enough at all, Dan? Generally, in in bodybuilding, 100%. Yeah, 100%. Especially with leg training, I think because it hurts and you know it is it is more taxing. It's more fatiguing, bigger muscle groups, it's more painful. yeah, I I I really do. I think people I don't want to this is I don't want to sound make it sound like a blanket statement but I think a lot I think many people and me included in in my early year earlier years will leave leave sort of too much in the tank and and sort of almost go through the motions and sort of it's like I said earlier it's more of a a checkbox. Okay, I I I got I got that done today. I got it out of the way. I you know, I I that's legs done for the week, you know, now on to arms sort of thing. Yeah.

44:22 yeah, it it's you have to sort of almost embrace that pain and and sort of learn to sort of lean into it and and yeah, enjoy it. And as sort of mental as that may sound to some people, that is what is going to that is what is going to sort of see your physique and specifically your lower body blow up because it is it will respond well to intensity and proximity like going as close to sort of that failure point as possible. M yeah, pro, like I said, provided it is is safe to do so. And yeah, I think there's definitely a lot to be said for sort of like, you know, not holding back and and I think that that sort of comes with experience. I think that does definitely come with like sort of training age, so to speak, is sort of know knowing what your limits are and knowing how far you can take sets and take exercises.

45:24 It's definitely a skill. It's definitely a skill that I've learned over the years. I'm definitely more skilled at it now than I was sort of 5 10 years ago. even even two years ago. And you have to sort of like really like learn to sort of like lean into it and embrace it. Yeah. And that's what's going to sort of that's what's going to really level up your training. Yeah. No, that's that's a really good point. Yeah. You've actually made some Yeah. amazing points throughout this, but do you think there are any other any other important factors that someone needs to consider if they want just freaky legs in bodybuilding?

46:01 So, so I would say the main main thing especially for younger sort of younger trainers, younger competitors, younger athletes, people who are sort of looking to get into sort of bodybuilding or to even just to bring up their legs and they are sort of new to training is don't spend too much time dieting. Like spend your spend time in a calorie surplus and actually give your body the fuel to to facilitate performance, facilitate training performance.

46:40 there is well it's no secret is it? If you know when when you have more energy availability and you have more calories, more carbohydrates to actually fuel training performance. you know, everything everything is going to be not not just your lower body, but just in in general, everything is going to respond better than if you were if you were dieting or constantly sort of pulling back or mini cutting or thinking I feel a little you know, a little bit fluffy, a little bit soft you know, I'm going to do a bit of a diet break. I'm sorry, a mini cut or a bit of a diet a mini diet. that sort of that time is wasted time. Yeah, that is which you could be applying to gaining muscle, gaining new muscle tissue. You're, you know, unless you're new to training or like, you know, hyperresponder or some kind of genetic freak, you're not going to be building any sort of significant muscle tissue whilst you're you're dieting. Yeah. And so commit to a a gaining phase, commit to an improvement phase where you are in a slight calorie surplus over a prolonged period of time and progressively improve your performance over a you know a long period of time. You know it will it will it will pay off but you have to be consistent you know for for months and years and and it's not it's not going to happen overnight. it's not going to happen in, you know, a period of weeks.

48:20 and so you have to sort of like really play the long game and sort of commit to that to that process and almost like take pride in like that sort of like that process and that that sort that delayed gratification you're going to see in years to come through the hard training that you're doing in a you know a prolonged calorie surplus. Mhm. that doesn't mean to say you need to get sort of like fat and fluffy and out of shape.

48:46 That just means like making sure that you are fueling your sessions and your training adequately to actually gain significant muscle tissue. Yeah. Yeah. That's an amazing piece of advice. I'm I imagine there are so many bodybuilders in their like 30s and 40s that if they Yeah. they would if they had a chance they would just say to their younger selves just yeah, stop dieting. Just be in a calorie surplus. I I certainly would. because yeah, that they're the important times, those those growth periods and especially when the testosterone levels are that much higher as well. You need to really maximize it.

49:18 So, it makes perfect sense. So, Q&A next. we'll try and get through as many. We've got quite a few, but obviously I'm aware of your time. I've also got to pick the kids up soon, which seems to be an ongoing theme of of me having to pick the kids up before. but at least they're not going to interrupt us like they did last time we did one of these. first first question. So yeah, a few of these people we're aware of. Bodybuilding is like a such a tight-knit community, but everyone kind of knows everyone. But yeah, Ollie Rumble, who we both mutual friend of ours, he said, how would you rate a pendulum squat compared to a back or a hack squat for growth?

49:55 Pendulum squat compared to a hack squat or back squat. So I would I I do love a pendulum squat. They are very very humbling. Obviously the angle is is different to that of a hack squat and a back squat. So you are able to get maximum knee flexion from a from a pendulum squat. arguably much more than a back squat certainly and potentially a hack squat as well. So for optimal sort of quad growth and knee flexion I'd say they are they are a very very good option for sure.

50:36 the the pendulum I would say would suit people with longer legs, longer femurs better than say a back squat. unless you unless you've got very very good ankle mobility. Yeah. And or short femurs. a back squat wouldn't necessarily like a high bar back squat isn't necessarily going to suit someone who's you know very tall or has long limbs, long long levers, long femurs. So a pendulum squat might be a very good alternative to that, a very good variation of say a back squat. and and likewise with a hack squat.

51:13 Sometimes hack squat doesn't necessarily suit someone's mechanics or someone's lever lengths and and so you know although you're not going to be able to necessarily load as much weight on a pendulum squat because of the angle and because of the the the the the amount of knee flexion and and depth that you have to get range of movement that it sort of forces you into. you're not going to load as much weight, but in terms of like quad stimulus, yeah, a really good option, a really good variation. and it might be, you know, if you're if you're lucky enough to have access to a hack squat and a pendulum squat, it might be that you you're you're running a hack squat for a period of time, number of weeks and months, they start to stagnate. They start to plateau. So, you switch out your hack squat for a pendulum squat, which is a like for-like alternative, a very good variation.

52:09 And yeah, you'll start to, you know, sort of familiarize familiarize yourself with that kind of new movement pattern and you're going to start to see a may maybe an improvement in stimulus and and growth from from there. So yeah, I'd say it's definitely a good option. Yeah. Yeah, I love both to be fair. Yeah, we've got both and I I do both actually. I don't back squat anymore, but I do one pendulum and one hack for my each my leg days. Both great movements. Chris Edwards, who we'll both be aware of as well, he said, "What is Dan's opinion on the good old conventional barbell back squat?" Do you don't do those anymore, do you? I don't, but I the the in in the early days, that was pretty much all I did in in of a squat pattern. that was that was all I did.

52:53 That's pretty much all I had access to in the early days because I was I was training in a commercial gym that that I worked in and other than a really poor Smith machine, I only really had access to a a barbell for for squat patterns. Mhm. for a long period of time, there wasn't even a decent leg press. So, I used to absolutely rinse back squats. And I actually think that I I was maybe I think I was doing back squats once per week and I was doing front squats once per week like three to four days apart. Yeah. And I reckon I I I think I noticed quite a a lot of my sort of leg development was was through sort of back back squatting early in sort of early earlier earlier on in my training career. Would you do high bar or low bar squatting? High bar. Yeah, high bar. I I think that's a really good point actually. If you are able to to do high bar squats, they are they are going to be in my opinion more effective for quad growth, which is obviously the the the sort of main reason for for doing a squat pattern. If you can high bar squat and you've got the the mechanics to do so and you have the ankle flexibility, the the hip mobility to do so and maintain like a a relatively upright torso and sort of really put that that load through your legs with of course good range of movement and and good execution and you're actually stretching those those quads in that sort of deep squat position as much as you possibly can, then they can be a really good movement pattern. Yeah. Yeah. you know, it's only in recent years that I've had access access to other squat patterns and other squat variations that I've sort of I've moved to, you know, a machinebased squat pattern. There's absolutely nothing wrong with them whatsoever. And I actually do think that they were a massive reason why I sort of built you know, a lot of sort of leg muscle in my early years of of training legs properly.

55:00 Yeah. Yeah. Great answer. Yeah. We're just kind of sport for choice these days, aren't we? Because of how much how much access to machines. next question. Joshua Conde, my old coach from last year. You'll know Josh as well. Yeah. good question actually. He said, "With a new client, are there any key are there key things that he wants them to first learn about leg training?" Good question. Yes. I so unless this client has any sort of pre-existing injuries or anything that they're any any sort of structural mechanical reason why they can't perform an exercise. I will take a new client through the sort of the basic fundamental movement patterns with just literally just body weight to start off with to make sure that they they can actually perform those exercises with good execution before then adding any load or sort of progressing the exercise from a from a either from a weight perspective or from you know making the exercise sort of like harder so to speak more challenging. So, I will literally get the client to sort of do a body weight squat and I'll assess the movement and and work on any sort of imperfections I suppose in the in the movement pattern before progressing that movement. Yeah. Before then sort of progressing to say like a a dumbbell like a goblet squat, like a dumbbell front squat. Once they've perfected that and they are sort of strong enough and more capable enough to perform that you know with with you know adequate range of movement and good execution I then might sort of progress onto like a a barbell or maybe a machine-based sort of squat. That's taking a squat as as an example. I also think hinging is really important. So teaching someone how to perform a you know hinge pattern. So like a like a Romanian deadlift without any weight to start off with just to make sure that they are able to you know they are able to they they can cue what a hinge should feel like and a hinge should sort of look like without any weight. So, that they are actually feeling the the stretch in the the hamstrings, the glutes, they're able to brace properly.

57:24 Then I will add sort of some dumbbells. So, some some light dumbbells and some some some light load before then maybe progressing on to like a a barbell variation or like a you maybe like a a hexar deadlift or like a barbell deadlift or something like that once they have sort of mastered the the movement pattern itself. Yeah. Same goes for like a a lunge or a split squat. It's amazing the amount of clients that I take on who aren't able to perform like a body weight squat or like a a bodyweight lunge or like a split squat.

58:01 And it it you know a lot of it is just to do with is is to do with the fact that they don't have that kind of like the sort of the the the the movement pattern. sort of that that conditioning, you know, that conditioning of what it should feel like, you know, getting that really sort of deep squat position, you know, that that sort of that able to that ankle flexibility, the the hip flexibility. and and and just being able to sort of like absolutely nail the movement pattern first before actually progressing it and and not rushing that process and just being really patient with it. Yeah. Yeah. Great point. That's true. As as a like a a fellow PT as well, you see such a there's such a spectrum, isn't there, of how how quickly people just latch on to certain or how quickly people get things. Some people with no experience can just squat to depth or they'll do a full press up and it's a other people take a bit more time to learn to learn the movement. I think yeah Josh also asks tongue and cheek I think this one is only one set of split squats per month based on the amount of weight you do.

59:09 It's getting it's getting to that point. it's getting to that point. I I was Yeah. So funny enough during prep, so towards the end of the dieting phase I was doing I was doing not as much weight. Not as much weight. so I was doing two or three sets to sort of Mhm. make sure that I was because the weight was lower and I wasn't as strong. Yeah. And I had less body weight and less body fat and less, you know, I suppose less recovery capacity, I suppose. I was doing less weight and more sets. And I don't actually know whether I preferred that that method because I'm now only doing one set, but the weight is yeah, obviously significantly heavier. And yeah, they they are horrible. They are absolutely Yeah. For those who don't know, yeah, Dan was Yeah, he does 60 kilos in each hand for his not RDL's, his Bulgarian split squats, which is Yeah. Ludicrous. Ludicrous weight. But but funny enough, at the end of prep, I was only doing 40 each side for the same amount of reps, but to get that same kind of that same kind of intensity, that same kind of volume, and I I was doing I was doing two sets of that. So, it got to the point where I there's absolutely no way I'm doing two sets of that. No, one set is plenty.

60:29 It's absolutely plenty. and I'm Yeah, I'm absolutely gassed at the end of it, you know? It's like done. Move. Yeah. move on to the next exercise. So, yeah, once per month, I'd say is absolutely plenty. Yeah. Yeah. No. Yeah, that's it. curious, do you take a break in between doing one side and the other? Do you take like a minute or so? I do. I do. I try not to like I I tell myself before the set I'm not going to. Right. And then I do I do one I do one side and I'm like I'm I'm taking a rest. Taking a rest. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, in all seriousness, if you're not able to then complete the next you know, do the other leg do the other side as well as the first side, then you know, it's counterproductive. you know, you could argue that, you know, you're you're sort of keeping the intensity high, but if your heart rate is absolutely through the roof and you're still pre- fatigued from doing that that other side, yeah, you're not going to get, you know, the idea is really to to match how many reps you do on on one side to the other side. So, if you're if you're doing 10 on one side, let's say, and you're only able to get four on the second side because you're absolutely gassed and it's it's pointless. So, I do take a a rest. I try and limit it, but it's Yeah, it's getting tough. Mhm.

61:47 Yeah. Yeah. No, that makes sense. yeah, we'll move on to some of your questions next. So, from Mr. Coach DSL himself, he said, "Tell the story about when you first switched your legs on correctly." Yeah. So, this is this is a funny one. I So, my first competitive season, I was sort of put in touch with Darren. And I sort I sort of met him at after my first competition actually at the BMBBF Southern and we sort of kept in touch and I realized that he was a posing coach and my posing needed work. So I left it too long really. but sort of I think maybe two weeks before the British finals, I met up with Darren for a for a one-toone posing session. He sort of said, "How's it going?" And I said, "Yeah, it's great, but my legs are nowhere near lean enough." Nowhere near lean enough. And he he sort of like frowned and he sort of said, "What do you mean?" I said, "Well, I can't, you know, I'm not seeing like lines or sort of striations in my legs. I'm seeing them everywhere else, you know. I could, you know, I can see them in arms and my my chest and my abs and glutes and everything's everything's in apart from apart from my quads." Yeah. And literally the one cue that he he said which was to to tense from your hip flexor and not actually tense the the quad itself i.e.

63:10 like just above the knee which is what I was doing you know before he told me. Yeah. My legs just like totally changed like the the the look just totally changed. and it was like a like a real like Eureka moment. It was like oh my god they were there the whole time. I just didn't actually know how to to pose them. I just didn't actually know how to contract my sort of quad muscles to actually show that kind of separation.

63:37 and I went from thinking that, you know, I wasn't lean enough and that I didn't have like muscle separation or quad separation to like literally in that sort of like that that that moment realizing that yeah, realizing that I was doing it wrong the whole time. And I guess I guess it just goes to show the importance of you know, if you don't know what you're doing with regards to to to posing, you know, hiring a posing coach and and actually getting them to sort of teach you how to do it properly from from the from the get-go, really. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's so true. Yeah. That that right there, it just goes to show how important posing is. And yeah, it's an area that people should not not overlook when they're getting into bodybuilding. So important. such a simple like that was such a simple but it completely changed the look of my legs. and yeah, just that feeling that feeling of like you know from where you're supposed to be you know tensing from a different part of the the leg part of the quad and it just completely Yeah. transformed my legs.

64:39 But it was it was it was all there. I just didn't know how to to show it off. Yeah. Yeah. No. Yeah. It's funny. I mean, I had something similar last last year. And Josh said, "Just push your hips back a bit." And for me, that was the the light bulb moment. That was the cue that really got all of my my leg detail to really pop. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It sounds like a similar thing. Yeah.

64:57 Yeah. Sounds so simple, but it makes a massive massive difference. Yeah. Yeah. It really can. I was like, I'm leaner than a lot of these people. Why Why are they seeing Sarasurius muscles and I can't see mine? It's like this doesn't make sense. Yeah. Yeah. And it's just the simple things, isn't it? Brad Do asks a good question. So how do you develop the outer quad sweep? And yeah, be curious to hear your thoughts actually on this one. Yes, this is an interesting one. so in terms of in terms of is you can't actually isolate the the quad sweep. You can't actually isolate the the vasis lateralis. you know, you're going to be you're going to be working you're going to be activating the other quad muscles regardless of what you do. Whether you whether you whether you're squatting, whether you're leg pressing, leg extension, split squats, you're you're not going to be able to just isolate that one particular area. Now, there might be, and I say might be because I don't think there's much research on this. I think there's maybe a couple of studies that I've I've sort of found where if you sort of slightly change your foot positioning or the let's take a a a leg extension as an example. If you slightly turn your feet in, you might be able to sort of bias the the vasis lateralis the quad sweep a little bit more than the other muscle groups. but personally I I just I don't overthink it. I don't overthink, you know, you know, I I would like to bring up my quad sweep. You know, I I think I've got a a good vasis medialis, so the sort of teardrop, the part of my quad, but my my sweep, so to speak, the outer part of my quad is is weaker. So, I'd like to bring that up, but that doesn't mean to say that I I don't change anything that I do with regards to quad training to try and bring up that that specific part of my quad.

67:01 I know that some people and and these people are, you know, big names in the in the bodybuilding game and they have huge legs. M they will say that maybe if you bring your feet slightly narrower on say a a leg press or a a squat pattern that's going to bias a little bit more outer quads compared to if you were to have your feet wider that might sort of bias a little bit more kind of like adductor. Yeah. for example. but I I I would say to to most people it's just a case of getting bigger quads and it's a case of working on the overall leg development and overall quad development and making sure that you are getting full range of movement on your squats, full range of movement on your leg presses, your leg extensions, your split squats, lunges, etc. That is what is going to build the quads. And if you've got weaker quads or you want to bring up that particular area, that muscle group, just training them, just training them hard with adequate range of movement and good execution, your whole leg, your whole quad is going to is going to get bigger. It's going to improve. It's going to it's going to develop. So there although there might be and this is kind of this is more sort of like anecdotal I think because I don't think there's much sort of evidence to suggest this is the case.

68:26 Although there might be some sort of like tweaks and some sort of like changes you can make to your kind of the way you do a certain exercise i.e. foot positioning. I don't think it's necessary personally to sort of to sort of focus too much on that. Yeah. Yeah. Focus on just developing your quads as a whole and and and maybe when you get to that really sort of advanced stage where you think actually I've got some really good quads now, but I'd like to I'd like to bias my vasis lateralis a little bit more, my my quad sweep. That's when maybe you need to start thinking about maybe sort of like changing tweaking a few things with regards to foot position and you know small little amendments, small little adjustments that you can make to maybe bias the outer part of your quad maybe compared to say like a you know your adductor or the the mediialis for example. Yeah, that makes sense. I'd agree with that. Yeah, cuz I wasn't aware of any data that said you could target specific parts of the quad.

69:33 The only one that I was aware of, I think if you lean back on a leg extension, I think you could hit the rec fem a bit more. And I think leg extensions already hit the rec fem more than other quad movements. I think they're largely absolutely in like squats for example potentially. but yeah. Yeah. And I think a lot of it is just genetic as well. I had Charlie Kasper on recently and he's got really really strong like quad sweeps. I think it's I think it's good. It's largely genetic, isn't it? that power.

69:58 Obviously, I think posing is another one. Obviously, the the more we angle our feet out, that can really bring out the sweep as well. Yeah, I can agree more. The obviously your you know, everyone's origins and insertions are sort of different. Muscle bellies are different. Obviously, there's a So, with that with that in mind, there's a big genetic component involved. and like you say, yeah, you can you can sort of pose in a different way to kind of bring up bring out that sort of like quad sweep. Yeah. Yeah. so but yeah, I do think there's definitely a genetic component to it. some people have like lovely sweeping quads, don't they? And you know, I I expect if if you if you ask them, they're not probably not doing anything different bring up their their their quad sweep.

70:41 They're probably not doing anything different to to you and I or anybody else to sort of bring up that sweep. It's probably more so that they were blessed with with you know, a good sort of you know, good muscle bellies. and yeah, it's I think I think there's definitely a genetic component to it. Yeah. Yeah, that's the thing. Yeah. I think all our legs will look slightly different when they're kind of, let's say, fully developed or mostly developed, and it's just a case of stimulating the muscle enough to get to that point, isn't it really? Yeah, for sure. there are a few more questions, but I'm afraid we're going to have to call it because it's it's good pickup time for me. But yeah, Dan, this has been amazing. I've really really enjoyed this chat and you've given us some, as I knew you would, some amazing take-home points. so yeah, we've already done our quickfire stuff. We did that last time, but yeah, this has been amazing. So yeah, thanks again, Dan, for joining me. Really love this. It's been great. Thank you very much for having me on. It's been an absolute pleasure.

71:33 Yeah, it's been awesome. yeah, so thanks for watching and for listening, guys, and we will see you next time.