North Pole Marathoner & Oracle Exec: Melissa's Extreme Grit in Tech & Endurance

0:00 I like to run, but I don't think a lot of people are aware that I've now completed 51 marathons. Pain is temporary and it's planned for the long haul. Never let best be the evil of better. >> I'm hearing a tolerance for risk. Maybe married with an interest in adventure and learning something new. >> Finance partnership is is very similar in the way that it's more than just the numbers, right? It's about really understanding the business that you're supporting. You kind of stole my next question from me because that's that's exactly what I was going to ask is, "Hey everybody, welcome to Ambition Aligned.

0:32 Today I am talking to my friend Melissa who has led finance teams across global giants like Oracle, Hitachi, and Workday, guiding product and infrastructure teams through highstakes transformations all the way from shrink wrapping CDs to global cloud infrastructure and AI changes in these tech giants. But beyond the boardroom, she's also an endurance athlete who's completed 51 marathons and became the first woman to run a marathon at the geographic North Pole. In this episode, we explore the mindset it takes to go through those extreme conditions, whether navigating billion-dollar changes or running on a floating sheet of ice with polar bear guards. Let's dive in. Hey Melissa, it's so good to see you again. I really appreciate you taking the time. Um, I would love for you to explain to the audience. They're all going to be really excited to hear about what it was like to go from your early career to leading global finance teams and what's really defined your journey.

1:24 >> Well, I think you're going to hear in a moment u my journey has not been a straight line and what's kind of guided me um unconsciously really has been the idea of just finding interesting roles and interesting um companies and people. Um, for example, when I first started my career, in addition to some bookkeeping jobs, uh, I started with a software startup. And back then, software is not what you think of today. It was where companies burn CDs. And so, the company was actually what my first day I remember very vividly. I came in to to say hello and I see scraps of paper on a desk and the team was shrink wrapping and and pressing seeds and shipping them out and I realized I asked anyone does anyone collecting any of the money and they were like oh that's not my job. So, I learned pretty quickly that uh maybe I should set up an accounting system and uh very basic accounting system and learn pretty much everything on the fly of how to run a business from start to finish, covering pay payroll and all the stresses around the small business. Um but really the next job right after that was couldn't be any more different. It was at uh Honeywell. For some reason, I was able to get a job at head of at Penny for their space systems division.

2:53 I've never been in a corporate job and so this was brand new to me and um fantastic. Space systems was a division where they were doing all of the avionic equipment for the space shuttle, which of course doesn't exist anymore. Um but it really was fantastic experience in my first entree of real technology. Um and before I knew it I also learned a lot of things like government contracting um FPNA. I pretty much learned that on the fly. Um and took on a number of roles because the company is so large.

3:30 You can just migrate into different roles. And one of the jobs that I also had was somehow I found myself in this role called internal controls and uh right when serving Oxley passed and that was what 2002 um and I led uh the certification for socks Honeywell's first year. Um and it it was amazing it you know you just kind of learned and figured out I mean in that time no one knew anything. No one knew what to do. There was no there was no uh history on that. So we we all learned together. Um took a number of different roles but then uh kept in touch with a lot of leadership and management and uh went to a company called Freescale Semiconductor which was a spin-off of Motorola. They got rid of their semiconductor business and so it was like a multi-billion dollar startup because they had to be on their own and develop their own processes and I was in what they call financial controller which is like FPNA at that time and that's a crazy business high volume low margins knew nothing about semiconductors um did that for a number of years and found my way through a a prior boss to Hitachi data systems which started marrying uh some of the experience of hardware and industrial with software.

4:51 Um and throughout that journey learned a lot. I worked a lot with um international business. Honeywell was very international. So I really enjoyed that and I kept it going as I went all the way through to Hitachi which which is a Japanese company which we were very global. So I got to learn a lot more in depth about Japan and how to do business with you know other cultures. Um, and then that was around the time where the cloud was born. So, another transformation of of things that you wouldn't see in your lifetime. Um, and I got an opportunity to work over at Oracle who was rewriting all of their software for the cloud. Um, and this is at the time where nobody even knew, I mean, what a cloud was. And the idea that music could be with you no matter where you went was like awesome. And I remember even seeing my first Tesla and that was like the coolest thing in the whole world like they that they had a computer in their car. Um but the point was is uh I really enjoyed just exploring new opportunities and new industries and not being afraid of just learning something new and trying something that I've never done before.

6:05 and I was uh got an opportunity where people trusted enough to just give me a try because I I could figure it out. So, >> well, I I love the story and it's an amazing arc there of going from a shrink wrapping CDs where I I was in music I was in recording studio was my first business. So, um so I I knew that very well to cloud music where we've gone consumptionbased and now the AI revolution and you've kind of seen it all. you see from beginning to beginning to now, which is just fascinating and amazing. And I I'm sure there's so many surprises along the way. And I think something that I already appreciate about you is the figuring it out. Like I meet so many young professionals or even midcare career professionals who are scared to make a next step because >> they don't know enough or they're worried they're going to lose their job or all all of that. And I'm hearing a tolerance for risk maybe married with a an interest in adventure and learning something new and willing to take on that risk which really benefited you throughout your career and everyone can learn from. So I'm curious though, you have so many surprising steps there.

7:09 What's something that people are surprised to learn about you whether through work or just your overall adventures in life? >> Well, I think um a number of people don't really know. They know I like to run, but I don't think a lot of people are aware that I've now completed 51 marathons. I can't believe I've completed 51 marathon u including every single continent and most recently the North Pole, the geographic North Pole. So, that's probably something that most people don't know about me. Maybe my close my close friends.

7:44 >> How How do you run across the North Pole? Do you need special shoes or like that's that's I mean that's amazing. 51. Most people can't even get one in. That's just phenomenal. >> Well, they're not super fast, but but uh yeah, actually, we took an icebreaker ship. Um there are there's a luxury like, you know, people apparently do this enjoy to go up to the North Pole. It's all ice. People forget there's no land and it's floating ice. And we went in the summertime and the ice is only about a meter thick. And so it sounds completely crazy, but a ship goes up to the geographic north, drops down their ding plank on some good solid perimeter device that the captain selects, and you just get off and you walk. And so this company, Runbuck, um actually hosted the very first one on the geographic Nord, and we were the guinea pigs and um you know, mapped out a little course with little flags. Um they what's unique about this race is that um they've never done it, but also because it's summertime there's bears. People don't think about it, but the North Pole has got polar bears. So before you're even allowed out there, they have polar guards that uh not only check the depth of the ice that it's a good solid piece that we're we're all letting everyone on to, but then they have to have a bear guard perimeter just in case. And we did see bears. Not when we ran, but on the voyage. We actually did see polar bears.

9:15 It's crazy. Amazing. >> What happens when you see the polar bears? The bear guards go and like try to block or >> they have guns. They what they do is they face uh away from you. They're they're per said a round perimeter. They're facing away from you. The ship is on one side where it blocks. And then then you have another perimeter where you stay within the ice that they know has been solid enough. There's no holes.

9:38 But we actually had to run with um life vests as crazy as that sounds. So it's not even bad enough that the the terrain is really tough. But those things are heavy. I'm telling you, they really are heavy. And so yeah, just just what you want to do is add it's like adding a few more what five to seven more pounds on you. >> Talk about hard mode. You know, it's like, oh yeah, I'm going to run on the North Pole 50 mar after 50 marathons with polar bears with a life fest on.

10:09 And like the guys with >> But to answer your question, the shoes the shoes, they're actually they're Solomon. They're actually they're snow running shoes. They're unisex. Uh but there are running snowshoes and it keeps your feet dry. I was probably one of the few people that had the the dry feet because it's summer and that's it's melting, right? There's a lot of snow that's melting, but um yeah, there are snowshoe running shoes if you can believe it.

10:34 >> Wow. Well, I I probably could talk to you about the whole I I have so many questions there and how you got into it and what triggered you continuing it, but I I know we only have so much time, but that's that's fascinating. I'm curious what was harder for you um training for that and doing all these marathons or some of the challenges you've had with cloud migration and technology over the years with your companies?

10:55 >> No doubt it's it's cloud migration. uh the that's the other stuff is just you right it's just myself you know you can train I mean you can do all those other things but yeah things like cloud migration there's so many more people involved there's so much it's so much more complex I would say >> yeah leading people other than yourself is always such a challenge right >> well with that I'm really curious what what does strong finance partnership look like to you especially when you have to do what you've done and lead and motivate and influence large international global teams to reach an outcome.

11:34 Yeah, I think um true partnership I think relates especially finance partnership is is very similar in the way that it's more than just the numbers, right? I think we've always heard it's more about the it's about really understanding the business that you're supporting. If you're talking technology like product or engineering or businesses that are highly technical, the bar is raised even higher for finance. Um you you really do need to understand not just the general business but you really need to understand what you're building, what the technology is.

12:09 Um because finance partnership is truly that adding value. And if you don't understand the technology or what they're building or what their challenges are, you're not going to be able to add much to the conversation. Um so you you have that added uh requirement to really understand the technology uh to a certain level such that you can have a conversation you can understand where um the pain points can be financially as well as strategically with the business.

12:42 Where did you develop that skill set? Because this is something I've noticed too in my chief of staff role at Google, like the best executives weren't necessarily the ones that knew the most or could get the most done, but they were the ones who could understand and tell the story, which was really challenging, especially for very technical professionals. So, where did you pick up that skill set and how did you learn it? >> Well, I think yeah, it's funny. I I had always thought about, you know, first of all, you have to I think you have to enjoy it, right? I think you have to first understand or really be they always hear they be curious you always hear that oh be curious and asking questions but I think if you don't really enjoy it or you are are truly not the curious true curious is you're enjoying it you really want to understand and you think I always thought it's just cool these these engineers are so cool and one of my early jobs at Honeywell um the joke was they it is rocket science and these are rocket scientists it really is rocking and these guys I I just I picked up early on uh that that engineers think differently and someone explained this to me and I to me it it resonates.

13:52 Engineers think I call it like this. They think this way. They they talk very detailed and then they get to a summary. But all of us and you know finance and English majors or what have you always were taught this way you know get to the point and then elaborate your details and so you can imagine the communication problem you're going to have between these two if you don't understand that and aren't patient enough to get and curious and ask a lot of questions. Um but again I always thought it was really cool of what they did. I wanted to learn and I was patient enough to understand that we're starting from a totally different point.

14:34 >> And so it sounds like, and I want to make sure I got this right, is it sounds like you kind of figured it out on the job, but you've learned that there's two very different communication styles and you were eager enough to realize that and then also curious enough to learn the other perspective. And then Bridget, is that am I summarizing that right? >> And I enjoyed being the translator. I think finance professionals, the most successful ones that support technology or anything actually nowadays everything is technology is being the translator between your own profession and whoever you're supporting being able to boil down the the the concerns and issues from your profession to a technical person. Um, and being that I call it translator, being able to speak both languages. Um, and it's very it's just practice, right? in being aware of the of the communication difference.

15:27 >> Yeah, it's fascinating. You hear you hear it all the time. People like to get to the next level, you need to work on your soft skills, but that really the communication is such a challenging place for everyone because it's more than just communication. It's EQ and understanding other people's perspectives, but it's also kind of realizing BS and being able to call BS when you see it. So, I'm I'm curious, you know, we're hearing a lot about AI hype nowadays, and how do you tell or what did you learn to be able to call or signal hype versus substance throughout your career?

15:57 >> Well, I think you bring up a good point because right now there is a lot of hype and there's still a lot of hype. I think, you know, with if you listen to CNBC, you listen to the news about everybody has to have AI because that is the the future, right? And so everyone's like, "How do I incorporate AI?" And and maybe that's not the right approach, right? Are you solving problems? How can you solve the problems and leverage AI to solve a customer's problem? You should be leading. Um, and I think that to separate that hype to me is pretty clean and clear. It's proof is in the proof is in the pudding. Like there's definitely talk and there's aspiration and there is vision which is great but after a while you're expecting to see progress and analysts are expecting to see progress. So we need to see some some material action and accomplishments and milestones otherwise it's just talk right if you're not seeing any actual progress or benefit from it.

17:01 >> And when you're saying progress you mean like are you getting customers? are you satisfying their needs? Are they paying customers or >> even even it's like features is what what can you demonstrate right and are showing that you've got the proof of concept done you've got a prototype done we I think everyone understands there's a lot to evolve around AI but you've got to start showing progress um and that's you need to show what all of this money is going towards maybe from a financial perspective um but also as a consumer or a buyer of product uh weeding through the mess. You know, who's been talking about it and who's been actually delivering features and functions and and delivering solutions even if even if they're small, right? That that gives me faith that that it's not just high.

17:53 >> Yeah. Yeah. And I to your point on the small solutions. I was talking to someone earlier today who invented the passport technology for um for that science of pass and something like that something as small as you don't even realize it because it scans your passport when you go through TSA is such a huge impact but you actually have to have something there and that works. It's not enough just to have the vision. And you're seeing a lot of that like Devon.ai please give me $100 million, right? Like what do you do? So I I think figuring out that substance and is really important. And what would you say like for other CFOs, what should they do or maybe product finance leaders to prepare for this AI integration at scale or even when they're thinking through acquisitions or building in-house AI technologies?

18:37 What what are you how would you think about that or what kind of advice would you offer? >> Yeah, I mean I I've thought a lot about that. I think there's two things. One is just the obvious like get yourself educated, right? you you can't even I mean it's it's changing every day. So if we don't keep up and try to continue to keep yourself educated about the topic and what is needed um you're already at a deficit. The second is to me AI is going to be all about the data.

19:07 Once you automate all of these manual processes and getting data to gather and and eliminate a lot of the manual work um it boils down to data. All of this thing is learning on data. So at the end of the day, your data first needs I kind of thinking about uh you know something catchy like you know three C's. One one is making sure that your data is clean. Most companies data I don't care what size you are the data is garbage right it's inconsistent. So that's the other thing is making sure all of your data is consistent. It's clean and it's consolidated. And that could be you know some people's a lot of smaller companies but not just small companies data is in spreadsheets. So that's what I mean by consolidate. Put it all together and be consistent. Even if the data is not a perfectly clean it's better to be consistent. You can always work with that fix it and and continue to clean because clean is not a thing you do once. So I'm a believer of making sure that you are all around your data getting that cleaned up. it's going to benefit you AI or not. It it's a big need for any way of um being efficient in your business. So, educate yourself and really get your data up to speed because it's going to help on any kind of transition to anything any system better.

20:30 >> I Well, I love the three C's. That's something I'm going to take away from this. I already learned something really valuable and I think everyone because it's so true and especially if you're in a company that's even done a couple of acquisitions, you >> It sounds It sounds easy. cleaned, consolidated, consistent. But a man is hard in practice, right? It's not easy to get >> super super easy. But I'll tell you, every company has the problem. The larger you are, >> the worse it is, the volume. But if you're small, it's it's still a problem because maybe you don't have the systems and and they're in spreadsheets. But to me, AI, the next problem that most people haven't even thought about yet is AI will get there. I I I'm a firm believer if it's already there in a lot of areas, but it's going to hinge on how good your data is and most people's data is not anywhere near where they need to be even for the systems we have today.

21:20 >> Yeah. And that goes back to your point on education, right? where if the executive team does isn't aware of what the technology can do and its limitations, you could be sucked into the hype instead of the substance of a technology and then buy it and then not have reap the outcomes that you're thinking because you have this huge data cleanup and >> you didn't plan for the consultants to go actually do the work, right? >> Yeah.

21:41 >> Cuz that's what's going to cost. I mean, you're going to never have enough resources to do that. You've got to, I call it, just start chipping away at it early because it's going to take time and it's just got to be a it's an everyday thing, right? You don't just clean your house once, right? And you're done, right? So, why would you do that with your data? >> Yeah, you need some long-term vision around there. That's awesome. Well, I want to switch it up a little bit. I really want to dig more into the North Pole marathon because I think personally I you probably don't know this about me, but I was actually homeless when I was 15. Um, and I like overcame a lot. And so I always am inspired by mindset and grit and like what it takes to go through extreme scenarios. And I'm really curious what inspired, you know, you to set this internal challenge at 50 plus marathons and going to the North Pole. What what was motivating >> all of that behavior?

22:34 >> I think even before if it was a marathon or not, I I don't and I guess you don't really know. I think even yourself, you don't really know what's in there. that says I'm I'm goal oriented and that was one of the things that I'm always looking for a challenge. I'm goal I I feel like maybe it's just to prove that I can do things and um so I'm very goal oriented and it just started early on when I kind of got talked into running early on like a friend said, "Oh, I want to have a uh I want some company." So before >> How early How early is this or how young are you when you >> Oh, I would say it's I No, I wasn't that. I was much later in life, uh, almost 40, so late 30s, that I even start running. Um, I'm 56uge or will be I will be 56. But, um, yeah, I had never really run. And I got talked into a friend, come with me to go run and I did that first 5K and I thought I was going to die. I went way too fast. And then my friend said, "Wow, you already did that.

23:33 You could do a half marathon." I'm like, "What? How do you go from that?" But somehow I'm like, uh, okay. And I think that really is the journey because before I knew it, I was my friends were doing marathons. So, hey, maybe I'll just do one. And then my friend suggested, hey, you've already done, you know, uh, four of the seven continents. Why don't you're almost there. And I thought, you're right, you know, or three of the four. So, I'm like, oh, you're right. I've already halfway, so I'll keep going. And so, it doesn't take much. It was just a little poke. Um, and before I knew it, I had seven continents and I thought, okay, well, what's next?

24:10 So, I was always asking, what's next? Um, and I think that is per personal and professional, goal driven, and it's always that idea of looking forward to the next thing because it's a challenge, is exciting. Uh, prove to yourself you can do it and um and yeah, so that's what I'm always trying to do. Prove to myself I can do it. >> Well, I love it. I hear two things there. first is this is the power of community, right? Is having someone to push you a little out of your comfort zone, unlock this whole >> world that you weren't even aware of in your earlier 30s, right? And now and now look at what you've accomplished so so fast. It's just amazing. And then the second was the goal orientation of hey, you're never it's more about the journey than the destination. It's like, okay, I did this one. What's the next one?

24:55 Right. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And I would say that's what I tell my friends all the time is actually the journey is absolutely the things that I remember the most. It really isn't the actual race. It It's I feel like I've already done it, right? Um it's And of course, all of these things, none of these, just like in business, none of these I'm doing on my own. There's nothing here about by yourself. You don't accomplish anything by yourself. I have a lot of friends that have trained with me over the years. U many miles, many hours, a crackadon in the morning to run with me.

25:28 Um and family and friends. So, uh you don't do anything alone. You definitely need the help. Um, and it's it's no different in business. You're you're not doing anything by yourself really. >> Well, says, "What else did you learn from this experience on discomfort or resilience or mental discipline? And are there any parallels you drive it to leadership other than the fact that you're all in it together?" >> Yeah, absolutely. The first is you're nothing's done alone, right? Um I think the other thing is um you the old you know it's an old adage about you are stronger than you think right and I think you've experienced that yourself you are stronger than you think you can do things you can dig deeper than you ever thought you could um and you just need to be stretched and actually stretch is is really good and healthy you stretch and then you can stretch a little more and a big part of that is um uh you know they always say pain is temporary and the same thing with an a migration. Pain is temporary and it's planned for the long haul. Um and the more you do it, the more you exercise it, u the more you plan, it's not as painful, right? Or you know it's coming and maybe it's because you know it's how how quickly it's going to get over but you're going to reap the rewards and the benefits that'll go much longer. So >> yeah. Wow. So, it sounds like the discipline and being able to be resilient and know that pain is temporary. Like much of that mindset will also translated well to business when I'm sure I've been in it too where you have an system implementation that takes 3 years longer than the one-year plan date, but you know, hey, it's temporary, right? We can we can still get through this. We can still push through and you need a leader like that at the helm, right?

27:14 >> Did you notice any change in yourself after like you started doing the marathons and the way you leaded but from before? Yeah, I think it's it I think your personal and your work life, I think they intertwine and one one I would say confidence. Confidence about taking a risk. Uh it's a snowball effect, right? Even if it's small risk when you're young in your career, you take a risk or you ask for that raise or you ask for that role that no one you don't have any experience to have justified you to be in that job and it it pans out. Some do, some don't. And then you do it and you said, "Wow, I figured it out. I had no problem. I learned how to do it." And it it it it starts diminishing the imposttor syndrome, right? Like, "Oh my gosh, I'm here. I don't know what I'm doing." Before you know it, you learn and you get more confident that you can figure it out. You're you're resourceful. You've got friends. You can contact your your resources to help you get through it. Um so I would say in a nutshell confidence um to to go beyond and do really tough things and um it does play right into work. Absolutely.

28:26 You could say go it's it's not like running a marathon today. That would be worse. >> And I think I think you have such a great observation too of like taking the on these roles is risky and a lot of people don't appreciate they everyone wants the title like oh I want to go be CFO I want to go be VP. But then when you talk to everyone dayto-day like, hey, are you willing to go take a risk on this new company? Are you willing to go uh oh no, I'm comfortable where I'm at. And I think that's exactly what you're saying against is, hey, if you want to grow, just like running the marathons, you got to put yourself in a position where you're going to take some risks and you're going to fail a little.

28:59 You're going to have some tough times, but that's how you grow, right? >> Yeah. Absolutely. And and Yeah. And you got to be okay with being uncomfortable, right? The old >> Yeah. comfortable with being >> Yeah. True. It's true. Yeah, I I love it. I'm curious uh on looking back, you've accomplished so much and and and it's really motivating to hear like you not just accomplished from just the get-go, but you kind of keep on choosing these new adventures and I'm wondering if there's any professional moment when you look back on an impact that you may were most proud of.

29:34 >> Yeah, I mean that's always a tough question, right? Um but I think the theme I have is not anyone and since it's anywhere where if it was an employee or a colleague or anyone that and even in personal life that came up and said that you made a difference in their life. I think as you get older that's kind of what you care about is your family, friends, colleagues and that you've helped them in their career, you helped them maybe personally. um that you've made a mark and you've and you've made some a difference in someone. Um and of course in projects hopefully those resonate with you know pushing the business forward. Um but I think it's first and foremost the people that you work with that you you know you felt like um you've helped somebody along the way. So I think all of those even if they're small there's no monumental you know uh project even the little stuff you realize in talking with people actually many years later you're like really I helped I didn't I didn't know that and so um yeah I think those are the most uh impactful things that I cherish the most >> you know and I think that's something that people just don't realize in the moment that I wish more people would realize everyone I've talked to who's been hyper successful like yourself always anchors back on, hey, it's the people that matter. It's not the process or the project or any of that. And the people that get lost in the process or projects, it's important to take a step back and say, hey, how how are the people doing and am I taking care of them? Because that's what's going to stick with you over the years, right?

31:09 Um, have your personal val values evolved at all alongside this journey? >> Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think again, when you're young, you're focused on just yourself for sure, cuz you're doing everything you can to you've studied, you're working on your own career, you're you're developing your life, you're worried about your next job, how much money you're making. And what's changed over that time is, and even to today, I would say, is there's things that are more important, different things are more important to me now.

31:46 It's what I'm doing, who am I working with? Am I learning? Uh, do I really care about the company that I work with and the people that I work with? Um, culture, like I've never thought that about, you know, early in my career when I got a job, I wasn't even thinking about culture. Culture is very important to me now. Like, do I want to work in a culture of of a particular culture or not in in a particular company? I never even thought about culture. And you hear about that all the time, but when you get in an organization, uh, you can either thrive or not. And, you know, it's not good for the company if if you're not in line with that. And so, so I think the things that are important to you have changed have changed for me.

32:30 Um, and it's not just about, like you said, title and money. Now, you're you still care about those things. I'm not going to uh disagree, but there are other things that are really important. And if they don't all come together, you just you walk away. you're totally fine with walking away from an opportunity if they don't check all the boxes for you. >> Yeah. And it's it's interesting. I I really love that you share that because it's interesting. That's why I made the show in the first place is I was trying to find people who were aligning their ambitions with their personal values.

33:01 And it seems like that over time the people I found most impressive or people like yourself who had those personal boundaries of here's my crossing point. Here's what I'm trying to do. And if you kind of go over it, then I'll find something else that matches that boundary, right? And and that makes everybody better at when people live by their values, it actually strength strengthens everyone around them, right? Um I'm curious, has there been any other times where you've realized like you've kind of realized intentionally trying to make decisions aligned with your values has paid out paid off or you've taken a risk to do so.

33:36 >> Yeah. I think um every role that you go into, you don't know until it happens. you take the risk and some of those roles were just not a good alignment and you learn you learn on the and you learn to to ask more probing questions and um so I think every job I would say in the last probably 10 years those are the jobs that I really had focused on making sure my culture aligned with my values. Um but it didn't always used to be that way. So, I I can't say it ever stopped or should stop. I just I I realized I guess in hindsight how it's become more and more important to me over time. And I haven't I think every role is a risk. You go into every role going, "This role might be less or more money uh or sacrificing some of these other things because I think I'm just going to thrive in this." So I I don't think I've been perfect by any means, but so I look at every role as a roast and I wouldn't say anymore. I was, you know, a cliffhanger. Like this job I just took half. And I think maybe when I was younger, you you're it sounds all good now. I I get it. But when you're younger, you can't necessarily early on have until you get some experience in those roles, you can't be so choosy, right? Um as you kind of get yourself set up and put yourself in position where you can turn down jobs. There's times in economies where you know, hey, you need a job. So, you do it, but then you move on when when a better role here is is better aligned with.

35:17 >> Yeah. And there's something too being the stable employee who, you know, you want to go in and if you're going to give if you're going to join something, give it your full effort. But I also do realize there's so many people if there is a misalignment and they don't articulate it or they don't make a position move, it's actually worse for the organization because it's like, hey, if you're not happy here and you're going to gossip or have a tough time because you're not matching with the culture, it's better. You're going to find something. You know, most if you if you've moved forward in your career, you're going to find something. And it's going to help the organization as a whole, too, to get you out of there because it's not a good fit for them either. Even if you're doing a great job, it's going to cause more problems, right?

35:53 >> Yeah. And it's hard. Culture is a really soft thing. I mean, I think recruiters and and the interview processes are so long now that I think that is addressing a lot of the potential culture mismatch. Um, but it didn't used to always be that way. It didn't I mean, now some of these interview processes are almost to a fault. Um, but I I I would say I in some ways I'm I'm learning to embrace how long some of these uh uh interview processes because of this culture, getting a true sense of what that culture fit is. Um, so you know, I guess time will tell how how successful, but there is a fine line between what the the company says their culture is to what they really are. that that's a very there's there's an aspirational culture and then there's the real culture and I think that's the tough part is doing your homework about maybe finding people that are in that company such that you can really get the true scoop.

36:53 >> Yeah. And then in a company even at different PAs or product areas could have different cultures, different teams could have different you really and something that stuck with me is I met a person who used to be a senior director at PWC who joined Google and then quit after one month and he was like it's not a fit for me. I'm gonna find and I remember respecting that person that they were able to figure that in out once they got in and took that risk to step out right away. And I remember that leaving a lasting impression of so there's something to it right of sometimes you're just not going to know and it's better to figure it out sooner rather than later. Um really helpful advice. I'm curious what would you recommend to any rising finance leader right now? any any what would be your biggest piece of advice or takeaway in this season especially around transformation of and all these new technologies and the economic and political uncertainty.

37:41 Yeah, I think um I mean I think I've heard a number of um analysts and stuff that I've talked with that they're just worried like just in general worried about everything. And um I think I maybe over the years having a career over many years where you know es and flows you've been laid off and we've all been laid off and you just have to be comfortable with transition and change and but the the key here is prepare yourself such that you can take risks right if you're a good finance person you had your bet on risk. So yeah, it's a risk, but is it a risk if you've prepared if it doesn't go well?

38:22 Or you can be out of a job a little longer to pick the right one for you, right? So there's ways of hedging your bet as well as making sure your skill sets are very diverse and that you're willing to take some risk of some companies. You're not going to be truly fulfilled if you don't take those risks because it takes it gets more difficult as you get older to take risks. uh if you have a family and you know you don't you haven't been able to to um you know do some of the things that you need to do and obligations as you get older. Um but the the key here is hed your bet on risk um so that you can be in a position of taking risk and to be in a position where you can be choosy. Um but also you got to add value, right? Any company that you're going to go to it it's it's also about what you're offering them.

39:12 There's a two-way street here. It's not just what they can offer you, but what are you what is your value to that company? And so work on uh wherever you are. There's usually lots of training programs. And I find as a rule of thumb, most of the uh early career folks are not taking advantage of all the free training that they can take. Um, and yet that's not a guarantee for anything, but what it does do is just help you become well-rounded and probably help with u more value add to whatever prospective company you go to.

39:43 >> Yeah, that that's great. Something I always tell people is scope is for teams, not for people. Like you should be learning everything. Even if you're an accountant or finance person, try to learn everything. >> And the more you learn, the more you earn. That's generally that rule tends to work, right? So just keep doing it just because you're out of college. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, I'm with you. I'm with you 100% there. And that's that's sage advice. Um, I'm curious. I know we're running close on time and I want to talk to you for really I could talk to you forever, but I want to respect your time. Um, I'm cur I'll try to go through these ones kind of quick. I'll add some fun ones in the middle, too. Uh, this more like a lightning round and then I'll have a closing section for I would love to hear about where where you're going in the future. Um, first is what's one AI misconception in finance that you'd like to retire?

40:24 H I'm just so tired of hearing we're all going to all of our jobs are going away and we'll have nothing to do. That that's a total misconception. Um hopefully it will automate and eliminate a lot of things, but we have as a finance profession have so many things that we haven't begun to do. So that that's that's a total misconception. >> Yeah, that's great. Have a a favorite book or quote that shaped your leadership style?

40:51 >> Yes, I would say a quote. I I'm not sure who who to to give acknowledgement to, but never let um best be the evil of better. >> That's really good. That's true. Sometimes analysis paralysis, right? Sometimes you just got to move. >> Uh >> yes. >> What's harder to explain ARR to engineers or going to the North Pole to run a marathon to your family? >> The family. The engineers. They got this. The They're like, "What? What?

41:20 They don't understand that." Yeah, engineers get it. >> Do you have any other extreme races planned >> for the near future? >> Not planned, but always have been thinking about there's a company called RunBuck and they have seven continents in seven days. Seven continents in seven days. A marathon. And >> a marathon each day. >> Yes. Actually, I have friends that have that have completed it. Seven marathons.

41:51 seven days. That's one of the ones that I've always thought about. Um that would be kind of cool. It would be kind of cool to challenge yourself. >> Oh, if you did that and put a charity behind it, I would donate. That sounds amazing. You know, >> it's a little pricey for me, but uh but yeah, it's a challenge that I I'd be a game for. >> Respect. Respect. Um Okay. And then just for a fun, do you like sweet or savory better?

42:21 Sweet for sure. Sweet toast. Not a sweet. >> And what what's your favorite dessert? >> Dessert. How about just like candy? I just like uh Do you know bit of honey candy? >> Oh yeah, that stuff's great. Yeah, that stuff's delicious. >> I'm an old schooler. I'm an old schooler. So I have a I have a that and gummy bears. Isn't that ridiculous? It's the sugar. It's my 5-year-old daughter's like that's all she wants is like those little lollipops, the Dum Dums and the and the gummy bears and I eat them sometimes like man these are perfect.

42:54 It's perfect. Exactly. >> I think they're just I think it's the idea of just pure sugar is what I'm looking for. >> Yeah. Yeah. I love it. I love it. So, where can people connect with you and um learn more about what you're doing? >> Uh LinkedIn. I think that's it's a great great tool. Uh just Melissa Kander. I don't know that there's that many. Um, and yeah, and I think I you'll know it's me because I posted about my North Pole Mar. So, you'll see it.

43:22 >> Great. I'll put your link uh attached to the show. And then what what's your plan? What's up next for you, Melissa? What are you what are you trying to accomplish next and what's on the horizon? >> Well, I'm looking for the next uh CFO opportunity. And again, a lot of the things that we talked about today is making sure that I find the right culture fit. I'm excited about the product and people and something that's going to challenge me and fulfill me for my next role. And if it hits those boxes, I'm there.

43:55 >> Well, any organization is going to be lucky to have you and any team that you go lead, uh, that's going to be exciting for them. So, best of luck on your search. And maybe for a final word, what would you say to a finance leader who's overwhelmed by the speed of AI and everything going on and doesn't know where to begin or what to do right now? What's a piece of encouraging advice you could give them as a takeaway?

44:15 >> Well, I I would say I think most of the time that they're feeling overwhelmed because they feel like they're behind. Um, and I would say don't feel behind at all. I think um sure all the engineers are way ahead of us, no doubt. But I would say all the finance professionals, we're all about the same place. We're this isn't it's okay. You're not behind. But time is now to get on board and start learning. And there's so many free classes. I think Harvard Business Review or Harvard has got some online free classes. I'm actually taking a cyber security class there. Um doing everything I can to keep keep up to speed. Um but there's companies like even Salesforce that's got free courses.

44:58 So, just snatch all those up. Learn as much as you can. Um, don't be intimidated. Um, you're not behind. I think that's usually why they're intimidated. They're thinking, "I'm so behind." No, you're we're all a little behind. So, this is the time to get on board. >> Well, that's great advice, Melissa. I really appreciate you coming on. It was really a pleasure getting to meet you and know you better. And hopefully after you land your next big role, hopefully we can catch up again and touch base and see what's going on. And if you do that seven continent race or what's up next for the docket. So >> I appreciate you.