Your Child Receives A Diagnosis...Now What?

0:00 [Music] the connected families podcast is made possible by listeners like us my name is Katie Wetzel and I'm a connected family's certified parent coach and a pediatric nurse living in Nashville Tennessee my husband and I have four kids ages 7 to 16 and two dogs and we love to connect with each other in outdoor play I hope you enjoyed today's program hey Lynn before we get started I want to ask a few questions about the

0:31 sensitive and intense kids online course that you've taken a couple years to write I helped you it was I know I started collecting ideas for this probably five years ago am awesome and I know that it's a culmination of actually your whole career working with kids as an occupational therapist and starting connected families and coaching hundreds and hundreds of Ames well we're really excited because the course is here

1:03 people are registering actually hundreds of people have registered for it already but I want to ask you a question we knew the need was going to be really large would you just talk about the Gap that you saw and what was available to parents and then how you filled that Gap as you wrote the course well I really felt like there's there's a number of gaps one was just in faith-based resources there wasn't a lot that really

1:31 dealt with those kind of neuroatypical kids neurodivergent or just sensitive intense struggling kids and most of what's available is just for you know kind of typical families with typical challenges that resolve fairly easily so knowing that God's grace is such a huge essential part of helping these kids I wanted something that integrates both the brain science and a solid scriptural faith-based approach as well so that was

2:03 one big gap and another Gap that I saw is a lot of what's out there is sort of these Summits where you'll have like 20 different experts for an hour sharing all their ideas and it can be great information but it's more jumbled it's it's not thought through from beginning to end you know and where do you even start in that so I wanted something that was cohesive that could make sense out of a struggling child's brain function

2:32 for parents so they have that Insight but then also give them some very basic tools to help their child that all fit together of a flow a logic to it all so that was a piece and then the third Gap was that we weren't really listening to parents and so I wanted to bring in the voices and the stories and the examples of parents and so this course has like 130 Clips shared by parents their pains

3:04 their struggles their Joys their learning all that so that people feel understood like they're not alone so those were some gaps that I saw you know kind of the scripture and science together a cohesive flow and then just the voices of parents yeah that's really good I know that capturing the voices of parents was just so important to you and you held parent groups and did so many interviews with all of those families

3:37 there your friends our friends but tell us maybe one or two other things that you feel parents are going to find really special about this course well there's there's a road to Hope diagram that explains kind of the stress cycle that families can get stuck in where it just feels like you're kind of spiraling downward and then how neuroplasticity is involved in that but then how neuroplasticity which is the the changeability of the brain in response

4:09 to environment how that is really your road to Hope but then we really wanted to care for the souls and the and the hearts of parents and kids in this so there are soul care videos to help parents just be encouraged in this difficult journey and there's a whole segment on healing shame aimed at in kids but it you know it will also teach parents just about healing the shame that can come with all the challenging

4:39 behavior that usually is part of a sensitive and tense child's daily life it is harder to parent a sensitive and a tense child and so this course is built to come around you parents and to support you and to bring you big picture but also tools to help you walk through this and really I know it's on your heart ly as he wrote it most importantly that there is so much hope for your family for your child and for the future

5:11 and so the registration is open right now we hope you go to our show notes and find all the information to register today because March 6th is when the community and support version of the course starts so that's it everybody go register thanks [Music] Lynn welcome everyone I'm so glad you're here I'm Stacy belward this is the connected families podcast our purpose for the podcast is to guide you to

5:43 receive God's grace and truth and then to equip you to pass that Grace and Truth on to your children I'm so grateful that you are a part of the connected families Community well today I have with me Lynn Jackson co-founder of connected families hi Lynn hello Stacy good to be here I know again well today we get to do part two of a conversation that we started in episode 122 where we talked with Mandy Cuda MD

6:13 we were addressing the question that many parents asked which was does my child need a diagnosis we answered that one in part one and so today we're back with Mandy and we're going to talk about what happens after you get the diagnosis maybe autism ADHD OD anxiety disorders or in my family's case it was dyslexia like what then so let's bring Mandy in hi Mandy hi Stacy hi Lynn great to see you again and hear you yeah thanks for

6:44 setting aside time in your busy schedule again to come and talk with us you know in the last episode you introduced yourself very well for this podcast just a simple background is that you received your medical training in the military you're in the reserves now and that's a big part but you're also a mom of wh so maybe that was even more training I don't know Mandy I definitely feel like having kids made me a better physician

7:13 absolutely yeah well in addition to that you are in our parent certified coaching program so just like really quickly you're an MD why parent coaching certification for you well it's a great question and I would say it's even evolving in my future hope in how I might integrate it into a practice setting but I really have grown to appreciate how much even in primary care

7:43 we do a lot of coaching and just having a focus area for me like the parent coaching through connected families felt like the right fit there's a lot of coaching certifications out there and this was just the one that seemed to make the most sense the approach that I have in my practice she gets to be MD comma CF CPC when she's done that's so manyi parent coach so many letters there are so many letters yes

8:15 well let's get started with our conversation today talking about after the diagnosis comes after you hear from your professional that there is autism ADHD OD anxiety Lexia and I think that there's a lot of emotion that is rolling around in parents when they get that final diagnosis and it can be a range right it could be relief like okay now I know what's going on it could be guilt

8:47 shame I should have dealt with this earlier regret right how did I parent in the past like just feeling bad about that if there really was struggle going on or or fear of the future times even grief it's like oh I this is just so much and now there's words to articulate how heavy this feels for me so let's just start with talking about how Grace and Truth looks in this really hard moment after a diagnosis can we chat

9:17 about that who would like to start God says that our trials bring us to maturity and even Christ was perfected through suffering so you know to grieve well if that's what your emotion is but then to lean into what God has for you and his purposes in that and I think that grief is kind of you that grief and releasing all the whatever difficult emotions pop up to sit in those with the Lord bringing those to the Lord and

9:50 without shame this is how I feel and then receiving his comfort so that then you can move on to you know gratitude okay what am I grateful for in the midst of this difficult news and how do I look for the opportunity and God's purposes in it so that's kind of what I would say off the top of my head about that I've experienced with you know families or you know even just an individual that was offering a diagnosis that there's

10:23 sometimes just this idea of having the truth and you mention this idea of relief that that oh this just explains a lot and it sort of gives me a starting place and I think that that you know what you described Lynn and sort of this Grace idea but then also having kind of the truth of this is how I'm built and gaining understanding of my child and this is how they're built and then celebrating that in some ways when we

10:51 can kind of get to that point because we are fearfully and wonderfully made as Psalm 139 says it was an interesting one with the diagnosis of Dyslexia we learned it's hereditary so instead of having conversations with my daughter they were wanting to talk with my husband and I and so we started having these conversations I never knew like this is a thing so sometimes it was humorous sometimes it wasn't but we were like wow maybe that's why I still can't

11:20 ever figure out left or right there's no question that our ADHD apples were falling close to Arch tree in our family so that just leads us to the next question of now you go home probably I'm assuming and you need to tell your child about the diagnosis and so I just there's a lot of questions around that what's a good age to tell them how do we tell them how do we describe how it's manifesting in daily life like just all

11:52 all of that could you start with that Amanda yeah I think that the you know we talked about this on the last podcast but the idea of a diagnosis is sort of a label that we use in the medical field to help us with driving you know treatment decisions or maybe even you know sort of care pathway decisions whether or not that's the words that you use with your child as we're trying to sort of have that conversation is not

12:23 it's not required so there may be a way of describing the diagnosis represents something in your family that is very true to your child helpful and you know at some point depending on their age you might want to actually say like this is what the medical community would describe as this diagnosis you get practical on that are you saying like you know how Dad can't sit still very long like is that what you're saying so I'll say in my family we have a lot of

12:56 energy and so the way that the sort of highly sensitive personality type or that type of diagnosis is described in our family is is that we are in a high energy situation right now and this energy is coming out in a way that is not helpful and you know it's also inviting my kids to describe that and you know how that looks for me as well as for them and so I think that as we talk

13:24 through diagnosis it's sort of like you're saying Stacey and thank you for helping me get practic that's what we want our kids to think of too is not just this sort of like name but how does this look in my life yeah we tend to have this belief that we should all be able to do everything just perfectly you know and kids certainly have that if they feel like they've got any weaknesses that can feel really

13:49 vulnerable so it's it's kind of about creating a family culture of we all have strengths and weaknesses God never gave anyone all the strengths because he wants us to know he wants us to have some guidance from how he's created us towards what we're supposed to do with our lives and so of course we're going to have things that are easier for us and things that are harder and so that gives us wisdom and so then just kind of

14:18 building a family culture of we can just kind of enjoy the that truth even laugh about it you know oh I am just not good with recognizing social cues that was actually true of me and one of our sons and we would laugh about it as a family but we were also both kind of math heads and you know just had a lot of skills in other areas and so it's just to be able to to laugh about

14:48 that that's kind of like the the background tone or attitude that then can help you have a deeper conversation about you know a specific Di diagnosis that might pair up with these strengths and weaknesses I triple that I love the idea of there's strengths and weaknesses and that's where where we start with the conversation and I would even say like doing a little research around that diagnosis and finding individuals that are alive now or in the

15:18 past and put in and doing research around the strengths that are the other side of a diagnosis so that when you come to your child and talk about it you're talking about both sides and you can talk about you know somebody in history and what they were able to do because of strength that they have that maybe wasn't even understood by all the people around them I think that's a great way to have the conversation with

15:46 your kids like I heard a statistic once I think that 75% of artists also have dyslexia so wow what are the strengths that go with this Challenge and if they didn't have that ability to you know kind of flip things around in their head or whatever they probably wouldn't be as visually creative I love that I I really I remember coming home from a seminar and hearing this whole Workshop from a guy who had dyslexia who talked about in

16:14 Israel they had gone out to find people with neurodiversity people who had a diagnosis of autism and dyslexia and thought about things different to help them create a new military system and it's a system that is protecting Israel right now is in is like state-ofthe-art and functional and I loved coming home and telling my daughter that and even like internalizing that for myself so I just think that celebrating the good within the diagnosis is I think huge I'd

16:45 like to move on right now though you know our last podcast was really fun we I had a great conversation with two of our parent coaches actually but we also brought on one of their sons and his name was Ryland he's 10 years old his mom was Katie Katie Wetzel and Ryan has a couple of different diagnosis but he really gave us this mic drop moment at the end of the podcast when I asked him what the best thing was that his parents

17:13 do and what he would recommend to other parents and Lynn and Mandy here's what he said he would recommend to parents to listen he said parents need to look at the emotional side of it before looking for practical solution ions it was a powerful moment at the end of our last podcast and so as we are starting to pull apart the after the diagnosis season of families I want us to just pause here a minute because before we

17:43 get into the conversation about meds and you know all the things what does that stir in your minds Lynn and Mandy as you hear this 10-year-old boy telling parents please listen I love the fact that even to to gain that quote you all asked Ryland what his parents were doing well it's the it's a question that's asked of you know the the kids in our life to invite them to tell us things

18:15 that we can then listen to and I just I think I learned that from connected families which as I have my kids getting to be teenagers that the best thing that I can do for them is to listen and so asking a a question or just you know sort of having the presence to just be there with them because that really shows that I value understanding them and it's a practice it's not easy I have

18:45 had to sort of actually change some habits in my life so that I have the energy and the focus to be able to listen to them especially when it comes at like 8:30 at night you know when everybody's trying to get ready for bed that always feels like the classic time and just to be able to sort of have that moment and say okay yeah I need to listen right now yeah yeah that's so good yeah I I

19:08 thought when I when I saw this topic I thought you know what are some practical questions that could help parents to set their child up to start to share some of those things and so I thought you know what do you love about how your brain works and what's hard about it another question could be if there's one thing that's hard and frustrating that could be better what would that be and that kind of gives you food for thought about

19:38 what help does this child really need what are the things that they would want to lean into to make their life better not just what's my agenda to make my life smoother with this challenging child and then finally what do I do that is the most helpful and then what do I do that's the least helpful because I want to know that as we move forward so those are just some thoughts that I had about questions that could be kind of

20:08 question starters and Stacy you've done a whole course on the power of questions so if this Peaks somebody's interest we've got something for you we've got more for you if you want to learn how to ask questions and I know I remember when I was first starting to learn coaching and of course practice it on my kids it's tell me more three word if that's all you can get out in the mall just just tell me more is enough like you're

20:34 just creating opportunity you know in preparation for this podcast I asked some questions to our alumni group that all the parents who have gone through the discipline that connects and I asked them how they support their kids and there was just some super great feedback that's just a huge wonderful community that we have but I heard the response listen to my kids many times in the comments and I just want to read one quote that one of the parents wrote

21:05 Because I just think it's so powerful especially we've been hanging around connected families a while and you know our framework so here's what one parent said her doctor gave her this quote the doctor said the difference between kids who work through their challenges and those that don't was usually a parent who legitimately wanted to listen and understand even during a meltdown and then the parent said this sometimes I think I'm sending my child or you are

21:35 safe you are loved message but when I'm in problem solving mode probably trying to stop that meltdown instead of listening they don't feel valued or loved the way Christ loved us wow I just feel like that's so powerful because we want to communicate the messages safe and loved but that I can fix this we need to stop the Meltdown is really an opposite message y for sure well and it's it's hitting me about how much the what's

22:08 going on in me as a parent sort of plays out because that that word legitimately wanting to listen and to understand because I think that there's the moment where I'm sort of like sitting there looking at them that I'm like look like I'm listening but I'm thinking problem solving mode and it just really gives me pause to consider you know again what are the things that are going on in me that are going to help me legitimately

22:35 listen yeah that's good that kind of reminds me of just like it really causes us to look at what's going on in us in our foundation are we sincerely wanting to connect with our kids and partner with them and I was kind of praying through this podcast this morning and the verse Ecclesiastes 4:12 popped into my mind and so the so well I didn't know it by the reference but I searched Google my Bible friend on a chord of

23:04 three strands is not quickly broken and of course it pops up with all these marriage articles right but there's nothing about marriage in there and I just think if we look at this situation of our child diagnosis as we're in a three chord strand with them and the Lord to walk forward through this uh in a way that relies on his guidance and just seeks the true best for that child that's a powerful Paradigm for this

23:38 whole thing rather than I've got to go to the professionals have them tell me what to do and then I'm going to go fix my child really thinking of it's the Lord and myself and my child and then we're going to add chords of maybe there's another parent in the picture or a a trusted physician or whatever the more more strands in that cord the stronger that will be to help us proceed forward well ly I don't know if if you

24:05 did that on purpose or not but that was a great segue to my next question after you get the diagnosis who should I gather around to be my part of my team my child's team our family's team in this Mandy go ahead well I just was even thinking through the gift over the years of people people who seem to have come in threes in my life you know I'm sure that's not on purpose that the Lord has

24:35 provided me with you know people through the years and so I honestly would say that the first folks to gather are probably the people that you trust it might be another parent that's involved it might be friends family members that are are are supportive for you so that that way you can have sounding board and you know sort of a way to process the information that you're that you're getting then of course it's Healthcare team so most of the time you're going to

25:04 have a primary care provider involved there there may be some additional therapy that the child is going to have maybe in the form of cognitive therapy or behavioral therapy occupational therapy Physical Therapy speech therapy there's all the therapies and those may be resources that are helpful to gather and then in different specialty or uh different situ uations for those diagnoses there are some Specialists that would also be very helpful so child psychiatry child

25:37 psychology as well as some of the school support systems there are often you know sort of learning programs that need to be set up for the child so the school Gathering them as a resource as well is always going to be helpful that's really good Mandy and reminds me um of the resource that we offered people in our last podcast too we had Taylor Herby on and she had created like a one-page little document to fill out that kind of

26:06 buil it all down to give to your child's teacher to help them because the teacher's not going to want to read through a booklet of diagnosis information but they do need to know so that's really good yeah Lynn do you have anything to add so I kind of helps to just prayerfully consider what what might be some feeder issues some causes of your child struggling more than most and sometimes it it can be just their gut biome and there's so much research

26:36 about that now connected to ADHD and autism in our kids the one that had the most intense ADHD has had for sure the most gut issues so maybe your child has had issues with tummy aches and constipation from day one then that could be some help in that area or natural health practitioner or whatever because like like 80% of our serotonin kind of that feel-good hormone that Mandy can comment on is made in the gut and sent to the brain so there's huge

27:08 most of the communication between gut and brain is gut to brain so that can be a big issue for kids Mandy what do you have to add to that so glad that you're mentioning that because you know often are talking to folks about issues like constipation or you know diarrhea and this you know there's various conditions that get diagnosed like irritable bowel syndrome these sorts of things and folks don't always make the connection that there is this brain Body Connection and

27:38 it really is the serotonin receptors that sort of cause that there's those types of receptors in our brain and in our gut so there's that interaction that absolutely happens so another issue can be sensory you know if you've got a child that you sense has got really big sensory issues probably a good step to take them to occupational therapy and we have a a blog post that we'll put in the link with a checklist about that or

28:07 start by getting the sensitive intense course right ly of course there's an almost an ebook that is just about sensory to help you do that yeah yeah for sure well learning difficulties you know trauma if if you're child is really struggling with sleep and screens issues that can make a huge difference so figure fing out if there is there anything that's aggravating this sensitive or unique brain wirring and then how can you get help related specifically to those issues okay I'd

28:39 like to move on to the topic of meds with a little bit of fear interpretation I know it's charged right and there's people that are on you know all different sides of is it do it or not all the things all the things and we're not going to get into all of that but I do want to ask a few of these questions because well they came from our alumni group our great community and so I know

29:02 it's on parents' hearts and they're grappling with these questions so let me just start with the first one how do I respond if my doctor wants to try meds I'm am picturing the parent in the doctor's office they probably we just got the diagnosis they're still sitting there and the doctor's like ready for me to write it and they're like I have to decide right now so Mandy what would you say to that how do I resp respond well I

29:29 think that this is where we can kick in our asking a good question as a way to help us you know respond and you may have already you know as the parent come in ready to have the conversation about medications as we talked about in the last podcast there's a lot of sort of the forward preparation that you could do and most of us do and now that we have access to as much information as we

29:54 do on the internet we can do so you may be ready to have have that conversation but it is always worthwhile to pause and just ask like what are the you know what are the benefits what are the side effects and always to just use that question that you said Stacey tell me more it's always okay to use in the doctor's office so if you need more time to sort of process ask more questions

30:25 and if the physician is going to be present with you you'll be able to tell sometimes folks get in a hurry and want to just kind of finish up the visit but be sure and ask those questions that you need to and it's okay to say you know Boy tell me what my options are I want that information from you but then I want to think about it and pray about it you know to say all of that

30:49 but um I want to consider this carefully and how would I get back to you about my decision so that no one feels rushed into it they feel kind of in charge of their child's life situation and can then move forward with confidence if that's the direction that they think is best makes me think that when you can take a step out wait to make the decision it gives you the opportunity to talk with your child

31:20 about it too they're a component if they're old enough to understand you know what's happening you know I just have had recent experiences with my kids starting on various medications maybe for cold or you know other types of things and I have to have a conversation with them about what it means about when you take it you know if you have to take it with food you know there's some very basic things that we want to make sure

31:45 our our kids are involved in that conversation for sure yeah I think that's really vital and that's kind of why I put in that question about what's really frustrating you if could be better life would be better because then that may lead your child to decide yes I want to try this so to have that buy in is really V vital and we tried both of our boys on some medication and for one

32:15 of them it was just a great tool his impulsivity was so high that he was losing friends at school and he was like ready for that and it helped Bridge him between the end of grade school and the beginning of middle school which was a lot more stimulating and he had what he needed but then our other son couldn't sleep on it so but they were both involved in that decision it wasn't like okay here's what we're going to give you

32:42 because we need to fix this problem no I can just verify so many times when you know whether it's a parent or a child that you know I've started a medication and in followup you know they just come back and say wow my life is so much better as a result of this but then there are other times when it doesn't work out as well and so what I have really grown to see medications as one

33:07 of the tools in our toolbox and thankfully we live in a time where we have those resources that can be so helpful but there are many tools that are available to us to help with treatment in addition the medications so what are some non-medical tools that are out there there's a lot of stuff right now just the the OT is a is a good starting place in general because it's so Broad and insurance will often cover

33:37 it so one of my earliest patients was a four-year-old who was diagnosed with Oppositional Defiant Disorder and the doctor said this is the most oppositionally defiant child I've ever seen and when I saw him in the clinic he was the most sensory defensive child that I had ever seen like his parents had to brush his teeth when he was asleep so you know he changed dramatically over the course of

34:07 treatments that can be a good starting place there's some other facilities that can be helpful with sort of generalized neurodiversity kinds of issues there's Brain Balance Centers for kids that are really struggling the Family Hope Center in Pennsylvania our son Noah went through vision therapy when he was 16 17 16 and 17 because he had started to get in lots of fender benders when he was driving and I knew that he was just had issues with

34:39 peripheral awareness and but when he went through that his ADHD improved so much so vision therapy is another option that has been helpful for parents and then there's lots of resources available for learning difficulties like I said Natural Health practitioners to help with gut biome what would you add to that Mandy well I think you've covered a lot of them I always want to hit sleep again I feel like that's one of those things that we you know we keep

35:09 mentioning but I have had many a patient over the years you know just really when you get down to the root cause of a lot of the you know maybe co-occurring anxiety depression that might happen with some of the ADHD that sleep is a huge component just not getting enough sleep of course the dietary approaches and and those are are very unique and there's a lot of different information out there and what it really boils down

35:37 to for me is a little bit of trial and error with our kids to figure out like what what works but fruits and vegetables are always a good Target yeah that's why we have a picky eater resource in the course because that is so common for these sensitive intense kids to have aversion to to different foods and they kind of gravitate towards the white and brown food group burgers fries I have been pleasantly surprised with my kids that

36:08 are more sensitive that they you know definitely tend towards you know those those foods that you mentioned but they actually really like fresh fruits and vegetables so I can't mushy you know cooked that doesn't work but actually fresh fruits and vegetables really are something that they have enjoyed so that actually makes life easier in some ways I love it sounds like you asked a few questions Mandy like what is it about that carrot that's that carrot that you

36:37 don't like and what is it about that carrot that you do like I love that always curious stay curious right stay listening is there a theme here today everybody I think there is Mandy let me just ask you this is specific to ADHD but one parent asked can children outgrow ADH d That's a it's a great question and I would tie it back to this idea that ADHD probably represents something having to do with our

37:08 cognitive wiring in our brains so there's you know genetic components of that there are environmental components of it as we talked about in the first podcast so I would say that those are not things that we outgrow but our brains do develop and they become sort of expanded and they you know grow based on skill building so you know there's different ways that we figure out function with the way that we're built so I would say that it's something that

37:39 is is an enduring part of how each individual is built with ADHD but there's ways that our brains grow and develop depending on the skills and the treatments that we receive and the environment that we're in even as a person with dyslexia I get that right I've learned how to manage life with it and and some parts have gotten better and some I just know how to manage different yeah it's like our we have one son who he cannot for the life of him

38:07 learn to push his chair in after he's at a at a meal and he's tried do over as he's tried everything you know so there's little remnants of his ADHD but my gosh he's functioning in life beautifully has a great job in a marage and so there's what even though he doesn't push in his chair his wife is so patient I was just glad I married someone who didn't care if the bed was made or not I'm

38:37 like that is not our priority yeah so it's kind of boils down to quirks plus really good General Life function yeah well isn't that all of us and we're all working towards that yeah so good the one thing that I'll tie to the you know sort of question about medication because that is often what people are asking this what's under that question is sort of how long will medication be necessary and I think it's one of those

39:07 that it's worth sort of always re-evaluating because there's definitely folks that find benefit throughout their life by taking medication so it's always the blend of medication with all of these other skills and tools that we're talking about but there are folks that sometimes do find that as a result of you know maybe environmental changes or these sorts of things have less need for the medication to help them with their symptoms so I think it's just sort of

39:34 that again staying in conversation and then having obviously the kids that are being treated become adults and so having them grow into recognizing what are their symptoms and how does the medication help with that or not and so then they can help with making those decisions well Lynn and Mandy I'd love to wrap up this podcast it's been really good I know that it's been super useful for many many people and and I believe encouraging and hopeful and we all

40:07 believe that don't we there's these these kids with just those differently wired brains just often have so much potential in life yeah so keeping our eyes on that can be really helpful well Mandy thanks for being here it has been such a great ch chance to catch up with both of you and hear all about the sensitive intense course and I'm excited to jump into that myself and thanks for letting me be a part of another podcast

40:38 for sure thanks Lynn thanks for being here thanks Stacy it's been a pleasure thanks for tuning in today friends since you have listened through the entire show I have a coupon code for you there's two weeks left to register for the sensitive and intense kids the community and support version so get a pen and paper here it is use code sm20 and you will get 20% off the course when you register wo right hey and if

41:08 you're military make sure you email us because you get even more off I'm not going to put that in the show notes so listeners that's just for you well hey everybody go to the show notes for links for everything that we've mentioned today I want you to know we are a listener supported organization over 45,000 parents like you listen to this podcast every month individual donations make the work to equip and encourage families possible for more information

41:37 about connected families follow us on Instagram or Facebook or go to Connected families.org I will see you next [Music] time