Letting Go of Shame: Co-Parenting and Conscious Growth

0:01 Welcome to such a special episode of parenting and you with me Dr. Shafali. Today I'm thrilled and you are going to be too to be joined by the amazing visionary, entrepreneur, best-selling author and mom, my dear friend Mickey Agarwal. Mickey is the powerhouse behind groundbreaking companies, some of them Tushi Thinks and now her latest company Hero. And these companies that she sets up have generated billions of dollars in revenue, but they always have an eco sustainable edge. That is her mission.

0:36 That is her focus. She's been recognized by Fast Company as one of the most amazing creative people, honored by the World Economic Forum as a young global leader as well. But beyond her remarkable business success, Mickey is a fearless change maker, breaking taboss, shaking up industries, and redefining the way we think about innovation and branding and scaling with a soul. She brings a one-of-a-kind voice to everything she does, from product development to creative marketing and of course, motherhood. I can't wait to dive into this conversation with her.

1:13 Joining [music] me now is a dear friend, Mickey Agarwal. A celebrated visionary, entrepreneur, thought leader, best-selling author, and a mother of a seven-year-old boy. Mickey has an extraordinary track record. Try not to get an inferiority complex listening to her. I'm trying my best. having built not just one but two ninef figureure amazing companies with such an amazing vision and she's disrupting industries and truly trying to impact the world in meaningful ways. Welcome to the podcast Mickey. I'm so excited to have you here.

1:48 Thank you for being here. >> I'm so happy to be with a fellow Daisy sister. >> Yes. So you are actually mixed descent. You're half Indian and half Japanese. Correct. >> That's right. >> Yeah. So for people who don't know, Mickey has a very iconic twin, Radha, and the two of them have really been out there in the world changing it in such amazing ways. So tell us about before we begin on your motherhood journey and what it means to be a mother. Tell us about your amazing new company called Hero. I mean, you are doing such amazing things and I want everyone to hear. So tell us a little bit about it.

2:23 >> Sure. Yeah, I mean, you know, becoming a new parent is such a one-way doorway, as you know, going from maiden to mother or for father, it's like a bachelor to father. And you go from this I, me, selfie to us, we, you know, what ecosystem is my baby growing up in? All of a sudden, you care about that. What is my baby wearing? What is my baby eating? What world am I raising my baby in? And so it's this really specific acupuncture point of change in a human's life is when you go from maiden to mother. And so for me it was no different. It was sort of one of those like wow beyond just being this miraculous experience. I didn't realize how much waste I was creating.

3:04 Specifically number one household plastic waste item in every household if you have a child is a baby diaper. Every baby goes through up to 6,000 diapers in their lifetime. Every diaper takes over 400 years to break down. The very first disposable diaper is still somewhere in a landfill today. You know, the number of diapers that can end up in a landfill can circle the earth 33 times. I mean, these number per year, these facts are insane. And so, when I realized that, you know, something had to change. And so when my son was 2 years old, prior to that, I started having these like what I call Friday thinking days where I stopped taking calls or meetings on Fridays and I just allow for downloads to come through and just tune in with nature and just be in receptivity mode because as a parent, as a entrepreneur, there's no time to be in just receptivity. And so in this moment of receptivity, I just was like looking out the window and looking into nature and I was just like, "Wait a minute. Breast milk is liquid gold. As mothers, we produce these nutrient-rich breast milk and therefore baby poop must be fertilizer gold." And I was just like, breast milk, baby poop must be fertilizer gold. And right now we're wrapping up this potential billions of pounds of fertilizer gold produced by mother's breast milk and throwing it in the trash and not harnessing it for good. And I was like, wait a minute.

4:25 We're using pig poop and cow poop to like fertilize our food and we're not harnessing our own mother's juju breast milk juice. And so I was like, imagine if the baby poop could fertilize something that can grow in the diaper and potentially eat the diaper. What could that be? And as I was asking myself what could break down plastics, my son Hero when he was 2 years old comes running into my bedroom, points to a book in my nightstand saying patcha patcha patcha mama and I'm like patcha mama and which means mother earth but he's two and I and I'm like what is he what I I look and in my nightstand in my bedroom there's a book called patcha's pajamas patchcha and I pull out this book this book had no business being my nightstand. It was given to me years ago by this woman at a conference. You know, people give you books, you throw in your bookshelf. They're like, >> and so I pull out this book and I start reading it to him and he runs away cuz he's two. And I keep reading cuz it's my thinking day. And as I'm reading this book, it's this book is about this 12-year-old who grows up in a polluted world. In her dreams, she and a bunch of animals save the planet. And then I keep reading and on page 31, it says there are certain types of fungi that can break down plastics. As I was asking myself, what could break down plastics?

5:40 My son comes running into my room, points to a book saying, "Mother Earth, I grab this book, open this book, and it tells me the answer. There are certain types of fungi that can break down plastics." And it was like this tuned in moment where I just was like, "Wow." Like children, babies are the most tuned in beings. And I just was in nature. And I just was like I just sat there and I was like, "I'm listening. I'm listening.

6:08 What's my next step?" And then nature just said, "Okay, like research fungi." And so then cut to four and a half years later, I've developed, you know, the first unbleached diaper that can be broken down by fungi in the landfill. So when the baby poops in the diaper, it triggers these dormant fungi in these little pouches to break down. You just drop this little pouch in this diaper and you throw it in the trash and in a couple of weeks the fungi in this little pouch start to wake up fertilized by the baby's poop and start to break down the diaper.

6:41 >> No way. >> Eventually [clears throat] it'll start breaking down other plastics in landfills too. >> What? >> So that's the whole thing and it was started by a child which is why I have to tell Dr. Chafalot like >> that is amazing. Now have you tested all of this and it's already showing you that it can break down? >> Oh yeah. I can send you videos of showing. We did a fish tank study with diapers inside a fish tank and we watched ourselves these fungi literally grow out. They start to scaffold around the diaper and they start to break it down, reduce it and return it back to the earth and turn it back into dirt and it's the most magical thing. So fungi, how they work is they actually spit out enzymes. These enzymes then break down the thing around them and they take in the nutrients that they need. That's how fungi work. And so they can scaffold around the diaper and break it down and return it back to the earth.

7:31 >> That is amazing. So why don't we all know about it and why aren't you on Shark Tank? >> We spent the last 4 and a half years working in stealth mode here in Austin or a lab. We have top PhDs in micology, micro remediation, biodegradation, chemistry, biology. We've hired, we built this entire lab here in Austin, but we just launched like this month. >> No way. I'm so glad that I'm talking to you. Wow. >> Exactly.

7:53 >> It's like the universe. I'm telling you, this whole project has been the most aligned. Like just when we're launching, the magical things happen like talking to you or just when I needed the right scientist, she shows up. Or right when I need the right diaper engineer, he shows up. It was like again, nature and mycelium are leading the charge and to like steward this project for her. >> Oh my goodness. So, how did you become so connected and aligned? Because you make it sound like it's this magical theater that's unfolding. And I know that life is not that amazingly orchestrated and you've done a lot of work to get there and even then there's messes and total failures. So I don't want people to get a sense that you are just this ordained being here on earth.

8:36 So talk to us about the other side of when it all falls apart and how long it's taken you to come to this place of alignment. Right. >> 100%. I mean, you have to fall on your face a million times in order to find the place of like, wow, you're experiencing fear instead of having to contract and just be like, what can I do to control the situation? I've learned to open my palm and let go. But that took 20 years to figure that out. But in, you know, building companies, I've had public takedown. I've dealt with people saying crazy things about me.

9:10 I've dealt with my first company was a pizza gluten-free pizza restaurant. People were like, "No one's going to eat gluten-free pizza to then starting near, you know, the first period proof underwear called Thinks. People were like, "No one's going to bleed in their underwear and to then starting Tushy the bedet company where people are going to, you know, beday is like weird." >> And so there were just so much push back beyond and then becoming a mother and then having to build companies while being a mother and it just that balancing act of the two.

9:38 >> Yeah. And then dealing with, you know, as you scale in business, people want to take you down, you know, and I'm going to say stuff about you. I've been to four years of trauma therapy because of that. >> Wow. You know, I've dealt with a lot to then come to the conclusion that wow, like we have been ignoring hundred milliony old technology, actually multi-billion year old technology, but fungi are 100 million year old technology >> that have been tuning in with nature and effortlessly growing in a way that tunes in with one another and and grows together.

10:11 Microisal fungi are fungi that can grow with plants and they support each other and they do it effortlessly. Sometimes there's like you know big diseases that come through and then just you know and then they grow again. The human experience is no different. You know you go through this disease and you go through these moments of like pain and suffering but on the other side of it is more growth, more potency, more alignment, more softening. >> Yeah.

10:38 >> More realizing that hey on the other side of all this pain and suffering and challenge is everything is going to be okay. >> Yeah. Oh, >> tell us about one of the most humbling, torturous, you know, moments in parenthood, in motherhood, where your child was this mirror to your, you know, past baggage that you hadn't paid attention to and now you had to clean it up or not clean it up, but I know you, you probably tried to clean it up. So, talk to us about that moment of realization that, oh my goodness, I don't want to pass this on. I better take charge and do things differently.

11:13 Did you have such a moment in motherhood? >> I mean many. >> Yeah. >> The first one was I almost died giving birth to my son here. An emergency C-section that was just a a wild portal of just like resafing my body thereafter and feeling like okay like everything's okay. But in the specific speed piece of parenthood. Yeah. I mean, going through, you know, the uncoupling, you know, of my marriage and, you know, Hero was three when that happened and and my husband and I, you know, tried to do it as lovingly as possible, but it, you know, you know, some messy moments there. So, having to sit down our son and just say, "Hey, like mama and daddy like love each other and you know, we're just going to live in separate houses now. We're going to go back and forth and it's going to be totally great. And you know, we did make the decision to like never say anything negative about each other, only love. And the truth is, we did have a beautiful chapter that had a beginning, a middle, and an end. And we really realized that there's nothing wrong about going through an uncoupling process, even with a kid. But having to sit down with your kid and explain that, you know, you have two houses, was a moment. And I think for you know Hero he's just a very attuned being you know all kids are for him you know that like the languaging of that had to be very very very delicate and it could get messy it's not perfect and then we you know that was a really really interesting piece but then also I would say like being a strong mother you know I think has built a really strong boy who I think respects the feminine. I think there is something about him, you know, when I have my period, you know, teaching him what a period looks like and what it is. And so now it's like, oh, it's food for the baby. I get it.

13:03 But I think like growing up with a mom and a dad in separate homes, I think is always a challenge. And I never I'm the first of my family, my entire lineage to be, you know, uncoupled in marriage. And so that was definitely a moment. >> Yeah. And how did you handle it as a woman? I know culture puts so much pressure on us women, especially mothers to kind of compromise and sacrifice and stick it through for the sake of the children. How did you work through that?

13:32 If there was any, you know, shame or guilt, how did you process that for yourself and come to a place of empowerment? >> Great question. Yeah, I did a lot of deep personal development work. I worked with a sematic therapist. I worked with a freedom coach. actually sounds interesting, but basically where am I not free? It's more like a left-hand path type teacher, but it's the idea of like where am I holding on and like where am I like feeling the guilt or the shame?

13:58 >> Yeah. >> And how do I let that go? And what I realized is like if I'm empowered and actualized, then that is the best for our son to see. If I'm feeling defflowered and demotivated and small and minimized or feeling like sad, then my son will see this is what the feminine looks like. And so I think now like he gets to see a flowering mother and a empowered father both like in an actualized versions of ourselves.

14:30 That's right. But in the beginning, like my feeling of like, oh god, he has to go from this house and 2 three two and two three and it's confusing and I'm just like I did feel a lot of guilt and shame. Am I a good mother? Like did I do this at the right time? Because then, you know, when the kids's 12, it's like the hardest time. So it's like you read like when is the best time? And I'm just like I don't want to lay in this bed for years if it's not the right thing for us anymore, you know, on either side. So it's like that real like struggle internally was real and I concluded that being an empowered woman and him seeing that and and making sure that we don't say negative things about each other having very real parent guard rails. We have a photo of the whole family in each other's kids' bedroom so that we're all like a unified front. If mama says one thing then dada says the same thing.

15:20 It's unified where you can't go to mama to get something from dad or go to dad whatever like we're a unified front. So certain things like we made a pact about and there doesn't change the fact that there's still the guilt of like mama and dada are like not together anymore. Yeah. And he's in a new mar. He just had another baby and >> wow >> we all got to go and be together and like Mel his new partner is like we call her best case scenario. She is so good for the family and like I feel like a true kinship to the ecosystem.

15:51 >> Yeah. >> Having built hero like actually in this process in the last four and a half years like coming out of the marriage during this period of starting and building hero has been so important to me because I learned from the fungi that it is ecosystemled and it's sort of like you know if the ecosystem is healthy then the individual parts are healthy. If the ecosystem is healthy, then the baby's healthy. It's not like if my baby's healthy, my baby healthy. If the ecosystem's dying, then your baby's inevitably going to become unhealthy.

16:22 >> Yes. >> And the one moment of like kind of like putting my tail between my legs and just sort of like eking through it was when Andrew and I divorced and then he was having his falling in love experience with his new partner, Mel. And I remember like they were going on their first trip to Costa Rica and this was when Hero we were going to do one month one month for the first time where it's like for the summer they he does one month in June and I do the month in July and Hero was only three and a half. I was like there's no way I'm not going to be there with my son every day.

16:55 >> Right. >> They went together Andrew Mel and the baby and then and my son and then I went as well. They went they chose to go to Costa Rica for the month and I went to Costa Rica by myself and like checked into the Bodie tree alone, >> right? >> And I just like made a pack to myself to show up on the beach every single day, even as like the ex-wife, like on the beach for 30 days. I was like, Mickey, for 30 days, I'm just going to go to the beach and be like the fifth wheel, but I'm going to like rebuild the ecosystem.

17:27 like I'm gonna do it like one way or the other and I'm gonna put my own like whatever aside. And it was fun. It was mutual, but it was still like awkward, you know? It's like you showing up on the beach every day when it's like Andrew and like his new partner and our son. And so I was just like, I'm going to go to the beach every day for 4 hours a day like and I'm just going to go and meet them there. I'm going to take a just So I went to the beach and I would like meet them at the beach and then I would just be playing with Hero at the beach. In the beginning, like my ex was just like, "Do you hate me?" Like, "Whatever, all these things." And I'm just like, "No." But then, like, I just kept showing up and we just kept putting it out in the ocean. And then finally after like 5 days, my ex watches me and Hero playing in the water while they're hanging out on the beach. He comes over and he's like, "Hey, can I play with you guys?"

18:16 >> "Yes, come play with us." And then eventually then she would come and play. Now the whole family was playing together. >> Yes. And then the ecosystem started to get stronger and then I would just keep showing up and then by the end of the month we're all crying together, kumbaya yangyanging, going to dinner, like taking photos as a family. And I think like what I'm most proud of is yeah, just like knowing that this moment right after the true like end of the marriage, this is the moment where it's like it is an acupuncture point of like either you can go all the way out or you can actually do the braid thing and this moment these next 30 days can literally pay dividends for the rest of our lives.

19:00 Like I knew that. I'm like it could go all the way out or it can like bring us closer together. And I just like swallowed my pride and I just showed up. >> Yeah. >> Again, like I was already in relationship with another person, but I showed up alone. So it wasn't like some weird I don't know. >> Right. >> Anyways, so I'm the most proud. It was It was uncomfortable. It was like awkward. And then it wasn't.

19:24 >> Yeah. Yeah. That was so amazing that you knew that intuitively that the ecosystem needs to be strong and we have to rebuild around this child and that will take somebody here putting the sword down, somebody putting the ego down and you chose to do that and they also said yes too. >> Yes. >> Like they they didn't reject it. >> Yes. They both saw that everyone agreed that the most important thing was hero. Yes. And we all like said yes together bravely. The bravery wasn't just yes taking the first step, but it's also everyone together saying yes together.

20:03 So like >> I'm proud of myself, but I'm proud of both of them, too. For her being the new partner. >> Yes. >> To be open to all of us. Most new girlfriends and new partners are like, "What are you doing with the ex?" You know, whatever. >> So heart open. So that's why I call her best case scenario because she vibrates on in such a beautiful way. and then M to be like still in the crunchies of us but also trusting that this is for Hero.

20:29 >> It was a brave act on all parts. Like I'm very proud of all of us. >> We're going to take a quick break, but don't go anywhere. When we come back, we're going to have more with the amazing Mickey Agarwal. I love [music] that even you and your sister have created a community. You know, I've spoken to Rada about how integral it is for her and you to be together. You are raising your children together. Talk about that. And not everyone is so lucky and blessed to have a twin who is so aligned, but more than your own kinship, your dedication to this ecosystem, this community. Talk about that and how you have created community everywhere you go.

21:07 >> Yeah. I mean community is everything. I mean we grew I mean families before this whole Neolithic times were this is my land and you know and then this is my woman and my child and my lineage and my blood like that's so Neolithic time prior to that was hunter gatherer and that's when everyone it's like you killed an animal and everyone shared it together and you had the berries and you had a lot you shared it and so the communal experience is the human experience and I think we've lost touch with that as we became single family households and so I think because I grew up in community in the womb from inception it's like my SPR and I have this like saying from the womb to the tomb because we were like in embrace for for you know and so I think like my happy place is being in community and in collaboration and so I think when hero was born like a lot of baby my parents are like skin-to-skin just me like and I get it and respect it but then like I wanted the baby to be celebrated by the community so Hero was like community baby, first baby in our community actually. And so he was passed around like a football all the time and came back to me for breastfeeding and then would so everyone felt like they were raising him together and that felt so good to me and community is everything.

22:22 Going through my own like take down experience and like having people try and say having a community hold like the the container and bring crystals and I crystal grided me and like all this stuff. It was like, you know, very very potent and powerful when you're going through the ups and downs of life, you know, when you're trying to create culture like you're >> So, how have you created community? You know, it sounds like, you know, we all say building community. I built a community. How did you actually go about it? Like if somebody's starting out, she's 25 years old and she comes to you and says, I want to build a community.

22:55 What does it take the first five things? What what are things we can do? First thing is showing up. Yeah. To like say there's someone you want to meet. Like say I want to get to know you and like I love you. She's amazing. >> I'm gonna first start showing up to her events. I'm going to start in her events contributing really smart things to say or add value. I'm going to show I'm going to help set up and break whatever.

23:20 I'm just going to help and support. Number one. Number two, I'm going to start organizing. Hey, I'm cooking my daddy's doll soup and my grandmother's cha masala that I'm going to make it at home and having the most epic people over for dinner. I would love to invite you after. >> Right. Right. >> Wow. Like she's showing up for me like maybe there's something here. She's really smart. Let me show up. And so organizing >> Yeah.

23:45 >> And that takes courage too because >> there's a fear of rejection. What if I organize even a dinner and they say no? >> Right. >> That feels scary like oh I'm busy. Then you try again and you try, you know, and then eventually there's going to be someone in your ecosystem that's going to say yes. >> Yes. >> Then you're going to have that person over for dinner and then you're going to create a really intimate experience for them. You're going to this is my dad's doll. This is my grandma's soup. Like tell me about your like really being curious about the other person. Less so about me me more about like wow tell me about you. Like what are you excited about? How can I support you? I always say like lead with how can I help you versus how can you help me.

24:26 >> Totally. >> Doors will open wide. >> Totally. >> Like can I pick your brain? Yeah. Can I can I can I can I? And you're like are you? No. >> Totally. >> Like I remember clearly when I went to Cornell to speak there was a student that came up to me and she was like I'm an aspiring entrepreneur. I know you're really busy. I actually know the editor of the Cornell Daily Sun and we have like 10,000 students here who read it. I would love to introduce you to the editor-inchief of the Cornell Daily Sun.

24:59 Have them to do an interview with you about your business. >> Right. >> Wow. Okay. Thank you. And so then they make the introduction. They get my email. They make the introduction happen. And then all of a sudden the article gets written and then this person sends me the link. Hey, the link. Hey, by the way, I have a couple of questions to ask you, >> right? >> Is it am I more inclined to be like, wow, >> this person led with how can I help you versus how can you help me?

25:24 [clears throat] >> Yeah. >> And then I'm more willing to be like, how can I help? Okay. Yes, I'm here for you. And it's not a tat. It's just human nature to start when you're led with not just like takey energy. >> Right. Right. And I always tell people, you know, they write to me and they ask me to do the forward of their book or they provide a quote. And literally, Mickey, I've never heard from them ever before that. I don't know what they are about, but they come with an ask. They come with a demand or they come with a need. And with the people like us who are so busy, the last thing we have in our repertoire, even though we may want to help, is to help one more person. And it's not that we're mean, but if they come with bounty and they come with offerings, now they've infiltrated your heart and now they have a right to ask.

26:11 So I always tell people, you know, don't show up in my inbox. >> You bring pashad. >> Yeah. Bring me something. Bring me contribute. Be part. Show me that you're in my community. Do the very least. Take one course. Take one book. Read something that I've written. You can't just come out cold with a request and take and and so you're going to be refused and then you'll wonder why you have bad luck. It has nothing to do with luck. It has to do with what you're willing to invest to allow someone to invest back in you, you know.

26:40 >> And that exact same thing about community building. You create the experiences. You cook the doll soup. >> Yes. It doesn't drop from the sky. >> It doesn't just be like I have community. >> Exactly. >> One person at a time. >> Exactly. >> One experience at a time. bring them into your world and then they're like, "Wow, that was amazing. Come back again. Let me tell my friend and then it's one more person at a time. You meet someone else and then you offer something and then they come and then you build." It's never can I come invite you into my world >> and in my world you're going to feel so seen when you enter my home. Let's talk about I want to pivot a little bit to talk about because you have a super unique experience and I think for parents of twins this next section is going to be really helpful. So talk to us psychologically. Okay. You and Radha as identical as twins can be. Okay. Now on top of that if you don't mind me telling the audience you both kind of wear this hat, right? You both have this iconic hat. Okay. So you make it even harder for us to bloody tell the difference. Okay. You like you do it on purpose. So now >> No, because then I don't have to brush my hair. I didn't brush my hair this morning.

27:51 >> Yeah, but both of you wear it. Come on, Mickey. How did that Did you guys decide that together? >> Well, first of all, two things. One, my mother's Japanese and she all about protecting your skin from the sun. >> Okay? >> You know, like as someone who, you know, is natural also in general, I just like being protected by the sun. So, I've always, you know, worn sun protection. >> Yeah. But how come you and father together? Tell me about that piece.

28:17 >> Every time I wore a hat, it would be an opportunity someone be like, "Nice hat. Hey, what's your name?" >> Yeah. >> We just noticed that it made us more approachable because it was something for someone to talk to us about. >> Right. Right. But did you guys decide together? >> Yeah. It just kind of became a thing. We were like, "Oh, you look great in a hat." >> But what about now if you want to get rid of it? Do you feel like, "Oh, it's part of my identity now."

28:41 >> Well, no. Now it's just a life hack for not having to brush your hair. [laughter] I have like 40 hats. >> Oh my god. Ra. >> And they all have like beautiful stories. >> Okay. It's a whole thing. Do a play on it. Okay. But let me ask you more questions about being a twin. >> Yes. >> Just about the twin experience for parents struggling with twins. >> Yeah. >> You both are like forces in the world.

29:07 Like either of you enter a room, we notice. And the two of you together. I've never been with the two of you together. I can just imagine. So, how do you deal with any sort of competition, comparison? I mean, surely you've had some moments of humbling comparison. >> Yeah. >> Maybe not competition. >> If those feelings of jealousy like in your teen years, what would you tell parents about what is natural? Did you have that? And then how we can help parents?

29:37 >> Yeah, thank you. That's a really important. I mean, we were best friends and best enemies, you know what I mean? Like, we knew exactly how to get to the jugular of each other because we knew each other the best. And so, we can light lift each other up the most or hurt each other the most. And it was a very, very real thing. And we were very competitive. Luckily, we were on pretty much the same team, so we got to compete together for the most part. But it's of course inevitable to compete with each other to be compared against each other.

30:06 Who's more successful or who's more this or who's more that >> and you both are successful. So how do you guys do it? >> Our own domains. >> In your own domains. Okay. >> He's my hero in the community world of like events and like literally daybreakers is one of the best events of my life. Like I can't go to a better party. And then in the world of products like you know we're just in different fields. get to like clap and cheer and invest in each other and support each other.

30:31 >> When did you guys make that division and for a while was that unhealthy in meshment? >> It was. So, go back to the growing up piece. Yeah. I think one of the things that was really hard for us was we shared a bedroom. Like, we were born where we're surprised. My parents didn't know I was going to be born until a month and a half before I was born. And so, they bought a house that only had two extra rooms for the kids. And so, my sister and I shared a bunk bed for 12 years. And I think when you're mad at each other and you have no spaciousness to go in your own rooms and like calm your nervous system and then you get to come back and meet up again like we had to go to the same room and so I think that there's something about having spaciousness to separate and to take a beat and to take a breath like you know I think when Rod and I actually like moved away from each other and from living together we went to Cornell together. We lived together right after college. We lived together for our whole entire adult lives until my husband and I moved in together, my ex-husband. And so it was really really like what's yours is yours, what's mine is mine, what's yours is mine, what's mine is yours. It was very very imshed. And so it was yeah, there was no boundaries and we didn't understand boundaries. And I think on one hand that's beautiful. It's a beautiful quality to be like eat off my plate. Take anything of mine. Like what's mine is yours. Like that's how I am with my friends. like when they come over, take all my food, take anything.

31:52 Like don't ask like my house is open always. Like that is really genuinely like I find that to be a beautiful part of not having boundaries in community. But I think when it comes to closer relationships, deeper ties, having like clear boundaries of just like, hey, like when you want to borrow something of mine, can you please ask and then can you return it? >> Did you have those hard conversations with Radha? >> No. you know, and so there was very much a learning in a very like adult life how to have boundaries around what's yours, you know, like separating our stuff. And so I think like that's an important piece for I think parents of twins to learn. It's like, oh, they're so cute.

32:32 They just want to cuddle with each other all the time. But we do have different souls and we have different spirits and we do have the need to have our own spaciousness, too. And so I think that's a really critical piece. And I think for us to like go in our own domains >> was healthy. >> Very very healthy. Like not to work together like two alpha females. >> Yeah. >> We're both athletes. We both played soccer D1 highest level when we recruited together. We played so well together. But the second we played like badminton against each other. We always end up in the finals of badminton's against each other.

33:07 >> It was so painful. It was so hard because we would have to fight each other and it was just like you know we got I understand this arena and you know very smaller scale but like >> you know we would end up in like the regional champions or like the equivalent of a provincial champion like against each other and damage like it was very very very hard. >> Yeah. Yeah. I think that's so important as we wrap up this conversation for parents to remember that at the end of the day, each child wants to be seen for who it is they are and it's convenient for us to mush kids together.

33:38 >> It's so convenient, especially two girls look alike, wear the same things, but we need to help them to create that space and have those guard rails in the safekeeping of their identity. So Mickey, tell people where we can find you. How can we support Hero uh in its launch in the world? >> Yeah, definitely check out herodiapers.com if you want to really help solve the global plastic crisis, one poopy diaper at a time. Go to hiri diiapers.com.

34:07 Spread the message. We do have a 40% off code if you message us on Instagram diapers. So, we'd love for you to share that, you know, champion it. It's so important for the feature ecosystem. And then for me, Mickey on Instagram or yeah, get my books. You can find my books on mickeyagirl.com. >> I mean, you are just unbelievable. I think this hero diaper is just going to be running the world. I can't wait to see your success. Thank you so much for joining me.

34:36 >> Thank you so much. >> Hey everyone, I hope you enjoyed that amazing conversation. So inspiring. I have so many insights and ideas for my own life after listening to Mickey. [music] Thank you for listening and I will see you on the next time on parenting and you with me Dr. Shafali. Parenting and you with Dr. Shafali is for educational andformational purposes only. It is not intended [music] as a substitute for professional medical, psychological, psychotherrapeutic, coaching, health care or other qualified professional advice, diagnosis or treatment.