What I Wish I Knew Before My Divorce (and how I built a $150M business from it) @ChriselleLim

0:00 I think for this fragrance, you had a 200,000 person weight list. >> 250,000. But at that time, I was like, I don't know if this is the right moment. I'm already going through this really messy divorce, but it was my freedom day. You and your brand from everywhere on the internet are an it girl. >> I couldn't have ever imagined Flur growing to where it's at now. >> Exits like that don't happen in 4 years, which is so crazy. I was really insecure, borderline embarrassed to be myself. It really took me up until my divorce to realize that none of that is me. It's been like a one ina million journey. Tell us a little bit about that.

0:40 >> Okay. What are the lessons that you wish you knew earlier when you were first getting married? >> Women have to be in control of their finances. You could be left with nothing. And I always tell people if your partner has an issue with there's a red flag right there. Even with business too. >> What do you mean by that? Um >> the creator economy has changed so much. So when I started just talk about whatever you want and in the last few years the economy boom.

1:05 >> What do you think it takes for someone in 2026 to be an influencer to be a creator and to do it well? What it takes now is to have Hi angels. Did you know that subscribing to our channel is free? And it's the simplest way that you can support our show and help us grow. If you do this, we can bring you even more of the content and the guests that you love. All you have to do is just hit the subscribe button below. So, please, if you wouldn't mind, subscribe to the channel. And thank you.

1:43 In case you missed it, you're allowed to be hot, smart, and rich. So, let's get into it. Chris Lim, are you ready to get hot rich? >> I am so ready. I've been ready. >> I was doing a lot of research and I kept hearing that you and your brand from everywhere on the internet are an ITG girl. It was like Cresell Limit it girl. Flur it girl brand. And I just want to know what it takes in 2026 to be an it girl.

2:13 >> I think it it's just truly being authentically you. There's so much out there and we'll get into this, but there's so much sameness out there, right? Whether it's in beauty and fashion, in business, whatever that is. And so, it's really refreshing for me when I see brands and people, even creators, that have a very specific point of view and it doesn't look so manufactured and like everything else. And I think that's what an ITG girl is.

2:36 It's an IT product. It has its own voice and it stands out. It doesn't blend in. >> I was interviewing Steven and he kind of said something similar. Obviously not with the it girl phrasing, but more so like the world is pulling us towards being the same, so how can you really stand out and paper wall push and like challenge boundaries? What were you like as a little girl? Like did you do those things? It's really funny because when I think of myself as the teenage cressel, I was really insecure as most teenagers are, but I was borderline embarrassed to be myself. I was embarrassed to look the way I looked. I was always about hiding myself and putting as much makeup and as much fashion as I can so no one could actually see my true authentic self. And that's how I really got into fashion and beauty is because I felt protected by it. It gave me this confidence that I didn't have. So as a little girl, I was extremely shy, extremely awkward, extremely tall. I was my height at the age of I think like seventh grade, sixth grade. And so no boys liked me. I wanted to be attractive and I wanted to blend in, but I never did. And at the time I hated it. But now I I think it was a gift because it allowed me to explore and figure out different things that allowed me to feel the best version of myself, which led me to what I do today.

4:01 Was there a moment in time that you felt like you were taking off those chains of like what other people wanted you to be and like finally were yourself? Like how long did that actually take you? >> I mean, I'm 40 now and I think literally just 5 years ago, >> you know, I and I don't know how old you are. You don't have to mention that. 33. >> Okay. 33. I I think so much of yourself even in in your 20s, I'm sure you can agree, you're still figuring it out.

4:27 You're learning about yourself. People are projecting their expectations of you. So, society is telling you what you should be like, what women should be like, and you're trying to process all of that. And I think it really took me in my mid30s to late 30s to realize that none of that was me. And so, if you really look back to my content, because I've been on the internet for almost two decades now. So if you look at how I presented myself, even how I talk, like I talk so differently from my videos of uh 10 years ago, my my tone of voice is different is because I was trying to be anything but myself. And so I think it really took me up until my divorce to realize that none of that is me. And what I built up was me to try and figure out who I was.

5:22 And I think it took me up up until I was I'm 40. So 35 years at 35 years old, that's when I was like, "Okay, >> this isn't it. This ain't it." >> What do you think it takes for someone in 2026 to be an influencer, to be a creator, and to do it well, knowing what you know now? >> Yeah. The creator economy has changed so much. So when I started, it was really about freedom of expression of just talk about whatever you want and showcase whatever you want. And then in the last few years the economy boomed right as you know and there are so many people coming into the space of uh content creation whether it be in fashion, beauty, business, tech, any of that right everyone is a content creator and so now when I look at the landscape and there's so many creators what it takes now is to have a very kind of talk speaking about what we were speaking about earlier is a very specific point of view and I think for do, Maggie.

6:19 Like, I know you haven't been doing this for 20 years, but you have such a specific narrative and with your point of view and your experience and your background and what you stand for, it's very specific. >> Now, it's like having that specific niche and a mission. Also, so much of what we're seeing now is, as I mentioned, it's all the same. People want purpose. And because of the rise of AI, everything is perfected, right?

6:49 Everything. And you could see an image and you're like, "That's beautiful, but that's too perfect, whether it's a video or or photo." And so, I think people are craving more realness and people are craving rawness and imperfections really. And so, I think that's my my biggest thing. and you're clearly doing that is that you're sharing stories of real rawness and you know hardships and moments and for me I told myself I I don't need to continue to do this as a fashion or beauty influencers there's so many I mean the amount of incredible beauty and fashion influencer I'm like how do I I can't keep up with this right but I said if I'm going to continue to do this to create content it's purely because it's going to help other people through my stories And so it's just storytelling, being authentic, your real version of yourself. I have so many small creators that contact me that are saying, "Oh my god, I'm I want to start this, but I'm going through a breakup. Like, can you help me?" I'm like, that's the message, right? That is who you are. Show up as that. Show up as your broken real raw self and pe you will you will find your tribe. You'll find your audience through that. I think I was raised in this industry for everything to be a little bit with perfection. You know, if you look at a lot of my old photos and videos, we edited the [ __ ] out of them. It was all about making it look like the dream fantasy life. And I I'm really proud of myself and kind of where I've come to a place in my life where I'm like, okay, I don't need to be anybody else but myself. Now, >> do you still consider yourself like an influencer creator now that you've done so much in other domains?

8:40 >> I will always be a creator at heart and creating can be in many different forms, right? It could be creating a video. It could be creating fragrances. It could be >> creating something. So, I think I will forever be a creator of one way or another. I started off as an influencer. Even I didn't even know what an influencer was back then. Um, but that's the what we call influencers now. I think I I still love that part of the business. I love product. I love talking about my routines because I have a community of women that look up to me that want information. And so, in that sense, I am an influencer and I forever will be sharing my thoughts and opinions, whether it be products or life stories.

9:25 So, yes, I I still consider myself as an influencer. Do I do it as much as I used to? No, I don't. But I hope and I I wish that I could continue to have a platform where I could influence other women and my community. So, yeah, I love creating content. I create content with my eyes closed. I'm sure you do, too. It's like I could just turn it on and create a video in a second. So, it's fun.

9:48 >> I always find it so fascinating when I have women like you in the chair that are like, cuz you are so many different hats. Like, obviously, the one that stands out the most is like entrepreneur. like you've done something incredible which we're going to talk about but I think the word creator used to be such a dirty word because it meant that you couldn't actually take on like the business responsibilities of building a business. When was the moment that you decided like I don't actually have to choose anymore. I can be every single title that I want to be and I'm not going to let anyone tell me what who and what I am. I think I've always been more of an entrepreneur at heart even before the creator economy came was born really. I remember 20 years ago when I first started creating content and no one was really making money from it. It was just pure pleasure when I got my first paycheck which was quite small but it was big at the time. What I did was I hired my first employee with that check.

10:45 I was like, I don't know if I'm going to pay her the next round because this is like a one-off check, but I'll figure it out. But I've always had that attitude of like, how can I make this into a functioning running business so I could scale it? And so that's always been my outlook on things. And I also sometimes I'm like, "Oh, Chris, you don't have to make everything into a business." But that's just how my mind works. I'm like, "Oh, that like we can make that into a business." And so I think I've always been an entre entrepreneur and businesswoman first that happened to land in a creative space and I love creating and so I believe you can do both. Was I the best executor as far as logistical things? No. And I learned that along the way of what my weaknesses were. But I think I I realized that I just I need to surround myself with people that could help me.

11:38 This is preu joining taking over Flur and like building a fragrance powerhouse. >> One of the things I'm was so excited to bring you on here today is because you have a buy not build story and I am constantly telling people like that is the best way to build a business when you don't actually have to come up with like the original concept and you can buy something and build it into this mega brand which you have literally done. I would love for you to explain taking us back to the moment you first heard about Flur. What was that moment that felt like your gut instinct was telling you, "Yeah, this is what you need to do."

12:16 >> So, for those of you that might not know my backstory, I was going through my divorce when I got the opportunity to come on board with Flur. And so, at that moment, I was like, "God, like, I don't know if this is the right moment. I'm already going through this really messy divorce. You know, I'm probably going to have to pay alimony. Um, which we could obviously talk about later. And it just felt like it was the wrong time. But there was one thing that I do remember at that moment. And I was said, look, Flur is going into its like second chapter of its life. And I knew of Flur.

12:57 Flur was a beautiful, clean brand, very, very niche, pretty highriced. I had three of their scents and I was obsessed with the scents and I would wear the scents once in a while and so I respected the brand a lot. They were one of the very first brands that ever transparently named all the ingredients that went into a fragrance. This was >> like decades ago before anyone knew what was going to fragrance. And so I remember when I was going through my pregnancy, I would only feel safe wearing Flur because I knew exactly what was going into Flur. And so I was like, I love Flur. I love what it represents. I trust Flur. What they build is incredible. And if I could put my fun spin to it and have it be a little bit more youthful, a little bit more colorful, tell my stories through it. I'm a storyteller at heart. then maybe I could have some fun with it. I don't know if it's going to work out, right? I don't know. And the opportunity to buy this brand was there.

14:02 Unfortunately, they weren't doing very well. And so, I had an opportunity with my business partner, Ben Ven, to essentially buy out Flur and give it new life. And so, we did that. And I get that question a lot of like, why don't you just start your own brand versus buying out a new brand? And I think my answer to that was I respected the brand and I I already had a vision of what it could be like.

14:29 There's something that's very valuable that they built which is respect and loyalty from the consumer that they already had. It was a very small and niche consumer but it's there like why not take advantage of that? And it was a beautiful brand and so it was definitely the right approach. Obviously, we changed everything from the packaging to all of the scents to the manufacturers to the process, but I think in the beginning as we were starting, it really helped out already having a few things in place instead of starting from complete scratch.

15:02 >> Totally. >> Yeah. What would be someone's involvement from like the founders that started the brand? You guys take over, you have this vision like are they still like getting an influence in it or is it like cut clean slate and this is now our brand? Yeah, totally respect the original founders of the brand, but they were completely out once we came in in place and I think it was a nice kind of transition. It's been an exciting journey since it's been like a one ina million journey. I feel like exits like that don't happen in 4 years which is so crazy.

15:31 >> Yeah. >> What is the first thing that you did when you were like I now own this brand. What are we doing here? as an entrepreneur kind of the dream has always been to sell a company at one point and once you get to that point you think it's going to feel a certain way and it never really feels that way and I'm sure you've you've talked to so many founders that have sold their company >> and I think for me specifically I haven't worked on Flur for more than four years coming up five years and so I was like Okay, I'm ready to commit again because essentially I'm I'm still a part of the brand. Cuz a lot of people are like, are you still with the brand? I'm like, yes, of course I'm still with the brand. I have so much more to give. It's not like I've been with the brand for 20 years. It's it's still brand new for me.

16:22 And so it was really exciting for me that are now owners were like, absolutely, you need to be on the brand because I think in a lot of people's mind when you exit a company, you're out and you um you're on to the next thing. I'm not ready for that. Like I I love Flur. I'm really attached to Flur and I just have so many more stories to tell and there's a lot of things that we haven't done yet. We're barely scratching the surface. So yeah, I'm I'm excited. I still get nervous. I don't know why. Like and I think that's a good sign for me because it's like the minute that you don't feel anything and there's like apathy of like, oh yeah, like whatever. That's when you're checked out. For someone that's listening to this that doesn't actually know what it means to get your company acquired. Can you explain a little bit about what that even means?

17:06 >> Yeah. To get your company acquired, you obviously have to reach a certain point in revenue. So now we have new owners essentially that we have to report to. I am still fully involved and my entire executive team is fully involved. But that pretty much means that you have new bosses um and you're building something together. I know there is a lot of negative connotations around selling your company to private equity or to just selling just in general because they call you a sellout or whatever. For me, it was the only way because with Flur, it I couldn't have ever imagined Flur growing to where it's at now. And our team has always been super small and nimble. It's still relatively small for the size of the company. And I knew that in order for us to continue to grow this business, the team needed help. I needed help. Like we couldn't do this on our own anymore. And so I love the brand so much. I'm like, I need to build out. we need to build out this team properly so everyone has the the support, the opportunities to be able to do what they they need to do to continue to grow this brand. It's different, but it's also a lot of the same because the team is entirely the same now. And I think it's again going into a relationship, it's no different than that. You got to date your buyers. You got to you got to understand how they operate, what their goals are, what motivates them. And so we spent a lot of time with TSG, our buyers, and it just felt so right instantly. But then you also have to give it time, right? And then talk to people. Got to get your your referrals in, right? It's just been a joy working with them. And I'm personally learning so much. And we also have to remember that this is my first time doing this.

19:02 It's like I only know what I know, right? And so I love Flur and I want it to continue to flourish and it needs the proper team to to be able to pull that off. >> I mean, you've made a lot of people like it. I think for this perfume fragrance, you had a 200,000 person weight list. Is that correct? >> 250,000. Yeah. >> 250,000 per person weight list for this. >> Yeah. I found it so interesting reading about how you connect dots and I've watched a lot of your videos of like launching certain things and I think the one thing I'm so intrigued by is what do you think it says about our society that there is this storytelling link between a missing person in your life? So like whether it's a death or a divorce or a breakup that it's created the hype to have like 250,000 person weight list like what does that say about the role of people and the role of our society right now? It says everything really because typically in beauty, whether it be in fragrance or makeup or skincare, you're selling the dream of being the best version of yourself, of being perfect and having flawless skin or they don't want you to feel imperfect, right? We spun that because at the time when I was creating missing person with our noses, I felt nothing but good about myself. I quite literally couldn't even get out of bed. I was not motivated to work. And the only feeling I could ever feel at that moment was God, like how am I going to get through this day?

20:39 I just felt like this void. And so I said, let's let's start here. Let's bottle something up that I currently need at at this time in my life, which is security, safety, a nice warm hug, connection. That's what I was craving. We have like the world's best noses. And I just dropped those those like those feelings. I was like, can we create a smell like this? And they're like, okay, we'll try. You know, with a few iterations, we went back and forth. And that's how Missing Person was born. But when you really think about humans, we all go through the same emotions. We all have our own collective journeys that we all go on, but we all feel the same emotions of loneliness, sadness, just wanting to feel loved. And I think we're a lot more the same than we are different.

21:33 And so I think that really tied the community together, the people together, and they're curious like, I know how that feels, but how does that actually smell? And so that's how Missing Person was born, and that's how we garnered a weight list of 250,000 people. People started posting online videos of them spraying it, crying to tears because it really reminded them about someone that they missed or some a missing moment in their life. At one point, people were coining it the sad girl scent. It kept making people cry.

22:09 >> Um, but I think in sadness, there's a lot of beauty in that and you find and discover yourself along that along that journey. And so missing person's a very special one, not just for me, but for thousands of people now. So >> that's incredible. >> Yeah. >> It's so fascinating to think about pain versus pleasure. And I always like tell myself even when I'm going through something like this is a part of your story, like it's going to actually help you one day. Cuz if you don't go through anything, what would you ever talk about?

22:36 >> What do you think people are motivated to act on in their own life when they see a piece of content or a product that's maybe more geared towards pleasure or pain? pain and pleasure both have a function and that function is it draws something in you and it it stirs something in you and so I don't think one is better than the other. I think missing person is probably our only sad girl scent. Uh everything else is storytelling but it's a lot more about pleasure. It's about wanting to feel hot, smart, rich.

23:12 >> Love it. It's it's uh father figure is one of my go-tos and it's embodying this like really rich woman but she's also the father figure and the mother figure based on my story of having to uh at the time be a single mom and having to co-parent and having to play up that like strength of a father but that tenderness of a mother in a sense like you want to feel like a badass [ __ ] right and that's what father figure does and for me that's pleasure and so I think there is a purpose for both and they're both equally as effective. It just has to be true and authentic. And as much as I want to come out with more missing person, sad girl scent, I'm also a girl of joy and lots of exciting stories and there's two two sides to human emotion and you have to dig in deep for both of them. So, >> have you ever created a piece of content that's ready to go live? you've written the caption, but instead of hitting publish, your finger just hovers and then you don't. You just don't put it live. While I've done that more times than I can count, when I first started posting content, I found publishing to be the worst part. But through the years of posting every single day, I learned that if you're waiting to feel confident enough before you start posting, then you're going to be waiting forever.

24:32 Because confidence actually comes once you hit publish. My partners at Stan built their AI coach Stanley to help you and other creators show up consistently. Stanley pulls from your own content. It learns your voice and helps you turn your thoughts into posts that you can publish every single day. You don't need to be perfect to start. You just actually need to start and then keep going. And Stanley will help you do that. So search Stanley now. You can learn more at stanley stan.store.

25:04 You have a way with you of like communicating in such a beautiful eloquent way that I would love for people listening to this like when they're thinking about storytelling. I would say like even the way you just described father figure I'm like I want to go buy it. Like I I feel that tug myself between my femininity and my masculinity of like being this way at work and then having to wear a completely different hat even with my husband. So from the master of storytelling that has transformed your storytelling across different categories, your personal brand, Flur, other business that you've been involved in, if you could drill down the secret to storytelling into one lesson for people listening, what would that be to hook the person they're trying to reach the way that you've been able to do that?

25:50 >> There's no way around it but being authentic. The thing with storytelling is that you can't fake it. People and the consumer is smart now, right? like you try to fake something, they could smell that. And so I always tell people even with Flur, right? Like we have so many scents now. Like including our body mist, I think we have 30 plus scents now. And not every single scent is story based because I can't make that [ __ ] up, right? I can't. And I'm very honest with people. For instance, vanilla skin.

26:20 Vanilla skin is not really tied to my story at all, but it's a note that I love vanilla and we want to just take a fun little spicy sexy spin to it. And that was enough. And that was a story in itself. And so, yes, storytelling is important the process, but don't do storytelling if it's not authentically you. And you have to kind of see how it's going to all tie together. So, one of my favorite parts of what I do is, okay, we have our calendar, right? We have our fragrance launch calendar and we typically have a few EDPs and a few body mists. And I think, okay, what are the stories I want to tell this year?

27:02 And then I'll write it all down. And then from there with our noses, we'll go back and forth of like, okay, what do we have that could represent this? And then we'll kind of like pop it in to different months. So you have to start with the authentic story first. I think when you start with the product first, it gets a little challenging of like, okay, how am I going to create a story around this? So I always personally always start with the story line first.

27:28 >> I have a secret to tell you. Um, >> so I called off my engagement. I moved all my stuff into storage and I was like a shell of myself. >> Okay. And my sister sent me your video and she was like, I think you should document this the way that Cressel has. Like, >> you don't have to post it, but just like go and watch the videos later and see how you feel. So, I watched all of your videos and you were one of the people that really helped me get back to a place of being able to function and also go through my feelings because I was like watching what you were going through and then I remember like moving all the boxes into my house in Calabasas and like filming myself. These are never posted, by the way. And I didn't think I would, but it was more just for myself.

28:12 And it was really therapeutic for me to be able to like compartmentalize, document, and then like go back to trying to like start HSR cuz that was really when HSR was even starting. >> So, I wanted just to tell you that because I think, you know, as a creator now, like all we want to do is help people and like feel a part of a community. And it really did help me at that time. Looking back, were there any cons of documenting that journey as publicly as you did?

28:38 >> Uh, when you're a shelva human like you and I have both been through and so many people have been through, you're not really thinking further than like getting through the next day or how you're going to survive for the week and just put on your best self. And and so when I was documenting those moments, it wasn't really for the documentary or to put it online. Of course, as a content creator, I am trained to document everything. I've gotten a lot better about it because I'm like, I just need to not pick up my camera at times, especially with my kids around. But at that time, I was like, you know what? I might want to look back at this at some point and remember this cuz I know I'm not going to be here forever. I might be married again at one point. Who knows?

29:27 And know it's going to be nice to look back at this. And the one thing that I do, and thank you for bringing this up. I remember clearly on my birthday when I decided to walk away from my marriage. It was that day. It was my freedom day. >> Mhm. Every birthday, I always look back on the video I filmed of myself crying on my birthday five, six years ago because it it's a good reminder and it's not to always go back to the past, but it also brings you back to the present and makes you realize how far you've come as a person and how much you've accomplished. And sometimes it is good to remind yourself of those moments. I have no regrets on on documenting these moments. I I look back at them and I'm proud. One of the best things I hear from people besides the fact that they love my my fragrance brand is when someone comes up to me and be like, "Thank you so much. Like, I saw your content when I was going through my breakup and divorce and it really saved me. It helped me whether they decide to stay or decide to move on. Like, it helped me go through a very hard time in my life. And for me, I feel like I served my purpose as a creator, as an influencer, to be able to help other women that might be struggling. And so, it's fun to look back on that moment.

30:46 You are dealing with a lot. You're starting this brand. You're navigating things that like you probably didn't even have friends to talk to about it because this was so taboo to talk about divorce, alimony, like, how did you get through that period? >> Yeah. I knew one person that got divorced and I'm gonna say her name because she openly talked about her divorce as well. Her name is Rissa. I think she's CMO of Revolve. She's one of my really close friends and she's the only person I knew that actually went through a divorce and she went through it probably a year before me. Just having that one person to like talk to about this and also being like, "Okay, what are the first steps that I need to do? What's the thing that you did? Who's your lawyer?

31:28 Like who do I talk to?" Just having that one person really helped out. I come from a very traditional Korean conservative family and luckily my parents were very very supportive and they're like look we feel that this is the right path for you but we don't know anything about this. We don't know how to help you. So I just kind of had to figure it out. A lot of googling to be honest and there wasn't that much information. Now within the next like after five years so many people are coming out talking about the divorces and prenups and what's important. I mean we've we've come so far already as as women and as a society talking about these taboo topics but at the time just 5 years ago there was really nothing and it was scary >> having gone through what you've gone through and like having paid someone alimony like what are the lessons that you wish you knew earlier when you were first getting married or if you could do that over again?

32:22 >> I think marriage is a beautiful thing. I think marriage is sacred. I do understand that 50% of marriages do fall apart, but I'm I'm a I'm a lover girl. Like, I I would like to believe in marriage and love, and I still do. But with that said, I think there's not enough education around marriage in general and what you're signing and what could happen if it doesn't work out. And I always tell girls, and this is information that I think my daughters need to know and their generation needs to know, is that your marriage should not be defined by a piece of paper. If anything, that is the blending of finances, taxes, like all of the legality, all that messy stuff. So, the number one thing I knew about was the contracts, and also prenups. And prenup typically has a negative connotation, but I think we're slowly changing that, right? And I think prenups typically are seen as like the rich man wants the younger woman to sign a prenup.

33:31 It's no longer about that. It's it's it's about equality. It's about protecting your peace. It's about protecting what you built. It's not about just in case you get divorced. And yes, we always have to think about that. I always use a car analogy. You go into someone's car just because you you trust them, are you not going to put your seatelt on? No, you have to put your seatelt on regardless. >> And it's about protecting protecting the peace. And that's something I I did not I didn't even know what a prenup was when I got married.

34:00 >> I'm engaged. I'm not saying that I am going to get married um because we're just engaged right now. But if and when we do get married, definitely prenup all the way, 100%. And that's something that I'm very comfortable talking about with him that he talks about with me. And I always tell people if your partner has an issue with that, there's an issue right there. There's a red flag right there. So, >> and even with business, too. So, prenups with business partners, that's a big one.

34:25 >> What do you mean by that? >> I think a lot of business ideas come with like friendships and people that you love just chatting about, building ideas. That's actually um I mean not to go too deep into it but one of my earlier businesses it was really built off of kind of oh I trust you right and there was no real contract in place there was no prenup if it's not in writing it doesn't exist any relationship that you go into business marriage have a contract have a prenup >> when and how do you bring up that hard conversation of like Hey, this is all great, but we need to do X.

35:07 >> You just have to have it. And I cannot emphasize this enough. You start a business with the hopes that it's going to go somewhere, right? And let's say that it does and you don't have a contract. That person can walk away with half all your money and you you could be left with nothing. It's so important that as uncomfortable as it is and same thing with going into marriage, you have to have those conversation. And as I mentioned earlier, if you can't have that conversation with your friend that you're starting business with, you probably shouldn't be going into business with them. Someone has to have those difficult conversations and it's always going to come back at you. I always say that what is not taken care of now will come back bigger, louder, stronger, and you're going to have to deal with it at some point. So >> yeah, >> so true.

36:03 >> You developed kind of a persona of sorts while you were going through your divorce that felt like a lot of these lessons but in kind of like a fun tick- tocky way, which was rich mom advice. >> Tell us a little bit about that. >> So rich mom was born during the pandemic. This was actually not during my divorce. It was pre- divorce and I think it was an outlet for me. It's it was a sense of escapism >> because I was so miserable uh going through what I was going through. But at the time, Rich Mom was developed by my followers on Tik Tok. It was a young audience. They didn't know who I was, you know? They they don't they didn't know like what a fashion blogger was.

36:44 Parasite, that Korean movie that won a bunch of awards was popping off and they're like, "Oh my god, are you the rich mom?" Because I had really short hair and supposedly I kind of looked like her and so I started acting like her and my audience loved it and it just went so viral. So, I continued that series, teaching them how to dress appropriately for a job interview, where to spend your money, like all these mom advice, but in a very humorous, kind of sarcastic way, I think, because a lot of people didn't know who I was, they thought that was really me. They thought I was actually a rich mom.

37:22 >> And so, it was fun while it lasted, but it died quickly. >> Can we talk about this for a second? Because it fascinates me. I use the word rich in my company's name. Yeah. And it polarizes people so much. Like think about a woman calling herself hot, smart, and rich. It is so polarizing. And sometimes I think I let the noise come in because when I started this brand, like I was at the lowest point in my life. I was actually like I didn't think I was any of those things.

37:49 >> And it was a feeling. It was like I'm evoking this almost like it wasn't escapism cuz it was actually more manifestation like this is what I want to become. And I find it so fascinating where we are in culture and society right now because, >> you know, we all want to be a [ __ ] rich mom. You know, we all want to be hot, smart, rich, but then when someone gets it >> and they show it, it's almost like now we just want to tear that person down, right? So, I'm fascinated even with someone like Becca Bloom who's done such a great job building this very polarizing side of the internet that, by the way, like I really enjoy watching and I see no problem with. But I think what I'm seeing amongst comments and trends is like as soon as it gets to feel to some people like unattainable or not funny or they're not embarking wisdom on people like you were, it's all of a sudden like people are turning on that.

38:40 >> Did you ever feel that sense of like when it was a joke, people thought it was fun, but then if you actually now came out and you were like, well, I am a rich mom and I here's my advice. Like do you think that you would experience that same shift? You know, it's funny because after I sold my company last year, which was not too long ago, I was always a paycheck to paycheck girl. Even as an influencer, right? I I had my revenue and I had to upkeep that. I had my team. I had my overhead, but it was always kind of chasing that the next paycheck, the next job, the next sponsorship just to make sure that I was afloat. And coming into this type of money made me feel very uncomfortable. I'm a child of an immigrant and my mindset has always been about scarcity of like okay this can all be taken away like if I don't work hard then like I'm going to lose everything and so I've actually been going to therapy a lot for that because even now I love working is my therapy which is an issue in itself um but it's about no I'm good but the minute that you act like you're good and you feel comfortable and people sense that from you, there's like this shift of like, oh, like you're better than us or you're and I I definitely have felt that. And so I used to feel like I had to be flashy to show off that I'd made it or I had to carry all these name brands and because I'm in fashion and that's how I thought I I made it or I look like I made it, right? But now it's it's really about what I want and just not having to show everyone and not having to prove myself.

40:31 And if I want something, if I want to relax, I don't have to explain it to anybody. And it's something that I'm still coming to terms with because I've worked my entire life. I didn't come from a wealthy family. I came from a very hardworking middle-class family. My sister and I, we retired our parents two years ago. We just bought them a house and we got them a car. And for me, this is the reason why I do what I do. I have them taken care of, but now like I can take care of myself, too. What? Really?

41:02 Like that just feels weird, right? And so that's something that I've been I've been um working on for myself and be like, "No, Chris, you don't have to always be working and you don't have to always be proving yourself." So, yeah. >> Is there anything more disruptive than a hangover? Mine are so bad that I can barely drink anymore unless I'm celebrating a big moment. But I still love a ritual that signals the end of the day. So, thank goodness I came across Vesper by our sponsor, Peak.

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43:21 Make sure you use our URL so that they know we sent you. Do you use AI? I mean, I'm so behind with AI. I'm a writer at heart. I love writing. That's how I started my fashion blog. What I like to do as a writer, um, because I still write a lot of substacks and all that, is I write everything myself. I'm horrible. My grammar is horrible. Like, it's embarrassing, but then I'll I'll use Chachu PT to like clean it all up, but it's still in my voice. And so, again, I'm really behind with AI and all that. I'm sure that there's ways that I could be more productive in what I do and the team. Um, but yeah, I haven't really fully embraced it to to what it is today. How about you?

44:02 >> I think the thing that I'm trying to use it for is more like productivity based. So, if I'm giving it a to-do list of every single thing that I need to do, it's like helping me figure out with my brain like when is the best times to do what and how long should actually things be taking me. >> Cuz I think sometimes like I used to hate saying that I was a creative cuz I was so like driven by the girl boss mentality of like being a CEO and being a business person, but I would say at the end of the day I am a true creative.

44:28 Have you heard this thing like makers versus managers? No. >> So my husband was actually the one that taught me about this when he first saw my schedule. He was like, you are not being set up for success because you are creative. You should have at least two days of your week that have absolutely nothing on your schedule so you can go and be creative, >> which is hard to do and you're just like, I need to be creative now. And you just sit down. But my practice is like those are the days that are for experimenting, learning, going to a coffee shop, watching people interact, walking Sephora, going to Ulta, like trying to understand the consumer behavior around me. Whereas I think for creatives, when you're so put into this box of like I have to be at these meetings, it's actually really hard to think about like what is actually going to move society forward? What am I actually thinking? Do you identify as a creative?

45:16 >> Oh my goodness. I could have this conversation with you all day because yeah, I didn't realize it was like makers versus managers. But yes, so we've had to re reformat my schedule because my assistant is looking at it as like what slots that they could fill in given that, you know, there's not that many cuz I travel so much. But it's not productive on the creative side. The creative side is equally if not more important than the business side as we're having to think of ideas that is going to move the needle. And that doesn't just come out from like okay from 12:00 to 3:00 p.m. I have to be crazy. Let me think of the best idea. It usually never happens. Doesn't al it also doesn't happen from scrolling.

45:58 That's what I realized. So, what we started to do was on Fridays, nothing's on my I I said I need a 4 day weekend, not because I'm exhausted, but because on Friday at least, if there's nothing on my calendar, I could just go out and do what I do and do nothing. doing nothing is so important about with being creative and nothing as and like you're just going out to museums, you're observing people, you're doing the 100% of all my best ideas was me being out in the world, not being on my phone. And so it's such a big part of my schedule now is on Fridays. Nothing is on my calendar. Yeah, it's so important as a creative just to to have that time to breathe and flow and just to aimlessly kind of >> go to a coffee shop, do whatever it is, go to Pilates, like just whatever brings joy in you and something will will hit, something will spark. You can't underestimate that. That is so important.

46:59 >> Did that take you time to learn though? >> Yeah. I mean, up until like maybe this year or last year >> because I can even like what you were saying around permission to almost just like not go so hard. I think >> a theme that I'm seeing with like women whether they're reaching out and asking me about HSR or even people I'm like having in the chair who haven't sold yet. It's like >> you know that saying work smarter not harder.

47:24 >> Yeah. I think it is so hard to put that into practice. Yeah. >> Because you think the harder that you work, the more that you go, the more that you're going to be able to do. Yeah. >> And even for myself, like I getting to this moment in the business have been like grinding. And I took off some time for like a bachelorette party and to go skiing with my husband and I remember just feeling clear.

47:47 >> But giving yourself permission to do that >> is such a challenge. >> Yeah. What do you think the boundaries are that you have to put around things like scrolling time or like just even knowing what's going on in the ecosystem of like the fashion and beauty world cuz it's moving at such a fast pace. >> How do you stay plugged in to know like what what is in the zeitgeist right now, but also giving you that time to go and be creative and to come up with the next thing?

48:14 >> I actually don't scroll that much. I I do scroll because I have to kind of upkeep kind of see what's going on. I I don't want to be in the dark. I want to be updated on what's relevant and what's happening, especially in this day and age. There's so many things that are happening like at light speed. But you have to be disciplined with your screen time. And there's no other words to put around it or you have to make those boundaries yourself. You have to understand that it's whether it's not good for your mental health or it's wasting your time when you could be creating. I told myself if I'm on Instagram or Tik Tok, majority of that time is because I'm creating and I'm putting out versus me scrolling. And I I don't have a set time of like, oh, I'm only allowed to scroll for like 30 minutes or an hour. I don't. But I just know when that time is like I I just can't. And yeah, sometime I get time to I'll like open it up and like, oh, I'm not supposed to do that. And I'll I'll kind of quickly put it away. Towards the end of the winter break, I was just feeling not so great about being online.

49:19 So, I I just put boundaries up and I said, "Okay, like let's just not do this as much." And yeah, I checked in once in a while, but for the most part, I was out of it and it did something in me like it it allowed me to just enjoy the present moment and I had a great idea and I was like, "Okay, like I have that space now to think beyond like what's in front of me." And so I think people need to to manage their boundaries around social media and just get out in the world. And I know it sounds so funny because it's going to make me sound like in the good old days, you know, this is what we used to do. My kids, I'm very strict about screen time and and phones. Um even though some of their peers have it, they don't have phones. They they are not allowed on social media. if they have screen time, it's on the weekend and it's max for an hour and it's usually on the family TV. It's not like on on a phone and half the time and even on planes I people think I'm crazy. I don't bring my tablets and they're like, "Well, what are the kids going to do?"

50:24 I'm like, "I don't know." They'll figure it out. And yes, it takes about like an hour for them to be like, "I'm bored. I'm bored. I'm bored." But after they break through that, they do some crazy [ __ ] like they're they're just out there like playing makebelieve and they're using their creative mind and their brain that so many of us we don't do anymore. And so I try to practice that with my kids and also myself as well. I try to model it for my kids.

50:48 It's hard. I know given what I do. But yeah, I I think it's really important that we all give ourselves time away from social and just be out as humans out in the world. Let me ask you something because this is actually something I struggle with. Like I also come from a very conservative like traditional family where it's like we don't speak about things that are uncomfortable and I even remember when a teacher told my parents like, "Oh, Maggie might have ADHD. She needs to get tested." It was like, "No, you don't."

51:18 type of thing. Mhm. >> I'm so interested for you what the journey has been to share your story so bravely when there may have been people in your life who would have preferred you to stay silent. >> Yeah, I think I still deal with that a lot because this conversation of women owning their life. Women now are the ones who want the divorce or want the breakup. women now making more money than a lot of the men. I remember when I started talking about alimony and people thought I was talking [ __ ] I'm like, "No, I'm not talking [ __ ] at all.

52:00 This is this is education that we all need to know." And it was women being like, "I can't believe that you're saying those things about your ex-husband." I'm like, I'm not saying anything but lovely things about him because he is a lovely person and he's an amazing dad. But all I'm saying is that women have to be in control of their finances and before you get married or even before you go into business, owning that up. And th those conversations stirs people up and they're like they immediately put it in a in a category of like oh women and money that's [ __ ] talking but it's not. It's education that we all need to know and to be empowered. And so I still speak up about it even though some people it might make people uncomfortable. I think it's important.

52:52 And so I I say that we continue to do that. I think it's all for the next generation to make better and wiser decisions and not make the same mistakes that that we've made. >> Okay. Amazing. I need to ask you some rapid fire. >> Yes, let's do it. >> Okay. I feel like you're going to be good at this. What is the last thing you put on your credit card? >> These rings. >> Love from where? I was staring at them.

53:14 >> Um, it's from the beers. I saw her and I was like, you know what would be really nice is I have an engagement ring from my fiance. But if I had an engagement ring for myself and it was bigger than my engagement ring. >> I am crying. Is this But this is not a divorce ring. This is an engagement ring to yourself. >> Engagement ring to myself. I never had a ring for myself to be married to myself.

53:45 And so, of course, like that idea didn't come out first. I saw the ring and I I found an excuse of why I needed this ring. But now that I look at it and I've had it for a few weeks now, and I'm like I look at it and I'm like, "Oh, damn. You did good. You did good. I am very happy with this purchase." And it just reminds me of how far I've come as a woman, as an entrepreneur that I was able to treat myself without guilt and to be able to say, you know, like at the end of the day, the most important thing is that you are proud of yourself and you are married to yourself and everything will fall into place. So yeah, it's my own engagement ring to place.

54:29 >> I am obsessed. Let me see a close-up. >> Thank you. >> It's so good. >> Thank you. >> Okay, you can only pick one to wear for the rest of your life. Missing persons or father figure? >> You're ask me like what child is your favorite child? That's really hard. Missing person. Okay. Father figure I do wear more, but if you're saying for the rest of my life, probably missing person because it just becomes your skin. and it just becomes you figure it has a little bit more ump. So like if I wear for the rest of my life at some point I might be like I need to change this up.

55:08 >> Mhm. >> But yeah, Mr. >> What is your favorite beauty brand that isn't yours or a part of the center? >> I saw that you had CIF on here. I know it's not beauty but it's kind of beauty beauty wellness. >> I love what she's doing. >> I love what she's doing on the business side. I think she's incredibly smart and savvy and she has just like this knack of like understanding the market and having a really great product. I I use their products every day.

55:36 >> Of course, Summer Fridays, Mariana, Lauren, they're they're so dear to me and >> they were really the start of kind of this whole niche beauty right before I and they started Summer Fridays so long ago. not so long ago, but way before like a lot of these newer beauty brands have popped up and they've really kind of paved that way for so many of these newer brands. So, and they continue. I think they just launched a lip liner I'm like dying to try.

56:03 >> And I just have to say Sephora in general, I know it's not a beauty brand per se, but it's like a conglomerate at this point. Yeah. Um, but I see what they're doing right now and me being a Sephora brand. It's really exciting to see how they're um thinking about their partners. They just announced a partnership with Olive Young, which I am so thrilled about, so excited about. I think that's the smartest thing that they could have done. So, I'm really proud to be a part of that Sephora family and I think their that team there is is excellent.

56:38 >> What's harder, entrepreneurship, divorce, or co-parenting? Oh, at the time you know what? No, entrepreneurship. >> Love that. >> Entrepreneurship 100%. >> Love that >> because divorce it's hard, really hard at the time, right? And then you get to the other side and and whether you have a good relationship or not with your partner, I luckily do. But you could be like, "Okay, we're done. Goodbye. See you later, right? Or maybe never see you again." With entrepreneurship, you get to a point and you think you figured it out. Uh-uh. The next thing is right around the corner for you and you get there and you're like, "Oh, I Nope.

57:22 It's it it's ongoing and it will continue to challenge you. You have to learn about things of yourself and the business that you would have never imagined that you had to learn of. And you're continuously always put to the challenge of >> having to grow it and having to become better which is really really hard because there's only one of us right and of course now I have an incredible team >> to help me but entrepreneurship is ever evolving ever growing divorce there's like a end date and you're you're done co-parenting I I have to say it's at least for me I've had a very lovely experience and if anything I advise all parents whether they're married or divorced to have a co-parent because it's the perfect balance at least for me and so co-parenting is a walk in the park for me cuz I I have a great co-parent. So I would have to say entrepreneurship but you know it's like anything else in life like when you think about something it's a lot scarier than when you're actually in it. So when you're in it you're just like [ __ ] okay got to figure this out like let's roll up the sleeves but when you're thinking about how you're going to do it that's when it feels scary. But when you're in entrepreneurship, you're just like trying to catch your breath, but you're in it and you're working at it and you're hustling and you're growing it. But yeah, it's never ending as you know.

58:39 >> If you had to title this season of your life with one word, what would it be called? >> Uh, I would call it the harvest. Oo, I love that. I um I think I've been planting for a very long time and I've been working my entire life and this year for the first time I'm like I not that I could ever be lazy or just kick back, but I'm now finally seeing the fruits of my labor and I'm able to enjoy it for the first time and take a bite out of it and be like, "Ooh, that that was a good one." Oh my god, I love that. I wish that I had given you this to say it to yourself.

59:22 >> Oh, good lord. I remember this bit. >> Tell tell this version of you this. Oh my goodness. I have to tell you a funny story. So, this entire outfit was borrowed from a boutique called Satine Boutique in Los Angeles, which was owned by my really good friend. I could not afford any designer clothes. So those were Steuart Whitesman sandals that every fashion girl had back then. This dress I think it was Philip Lim. But anyways, I was a broke college student. So my friend Jeanie had a boutique and that's how I created outfits for my fashion blog was cuz I had no money. She let me borrow her clothes from her store and I would shoot them. And actually that's how I met my my fiance is through Genie. Oh my god.

60:12 This is a full circle moment. >> Full circle moment. >> Okay. To answer this question to these pictures of you. If you could tell yourself and anyone listening one HSR love note to keep going on the hard days, what would it be? >> You are enough. You are beautiful and you are resilient. I think at this time I felt really insecure and I felt I really did not like myself at the time. I think more than the look, it was just like who I was as a person. I wasn't satisfied. And so, yeah, I would and that's something I I tell my girls every morning. We drive to school and I we repeat the same things and I I would say the exact same thing I would tell my daughters because I know they're going to go through a period where they're going to be like, "H, I I want to be like her. I don't like myself." And so, that's what I would tell her.

61:05 >> I love that. >> Are these all the same photos? Are you popping all of these up? >> Oh, I just like went and found my favorite photos. >> My skinny boyfriend. >> Like, it's honestly iconic. It's I love like looking back at where we come from cuz it's so if you think about our life progression, it is just >> so beautiful, but at the time you're like, >> I'm embarrassed or I don't like this version of myself. And then you get to this point, you're like, wait, this is all for that girl.

61:31 >> You know what I would actually say? I would say you're going to get hotter, smarter, richer. >> Love you. Thank you so much for coming on. I had the best time with you. >> Thank you. I did too. >> Honestly, getting to meet your heroes in real life is so underrated. This was so cool. Thank you so much. And thank you everyone from listening and I can't wait to see you guys next week. Love you.