A Few Good Minutes with Rich Rao, Vice President of Small Business for Facebook

0:02 hey hello it's Brent lery it's Monday I think it's Monday every day Al still seems like it's blurring but it is Monday it's a brand new week and this is going to be a really cool week what I call the BBC which is the Brent Broadcasting channel not the dudes from over in UK although they do good stuff but I don't think they can compete with what I'm going to do right now which is have a really interesting conversation

0:26 with Rich Ral rich is the VPS Smalls business for Facebook rich thank you for joining me man Brent great great to be here with you so I was just you know telling you right before we started the broadcast when I when I got the email about talking to you and I was like wait a minute I I I remember talking to a guy named Rich Ral and then I I looked back into some of the previous conversation

0:51 and I literally have not talked to you in about seven a half years and at the time you were at Google now you're at Facebook so it's it's really cool to talk with you now and to catch up and actually get your take on what's going on uh with small businesses small businesses and the ones that you really are are interacting with and serving from uh the Facebook point of view yeah now it's great to be here with you and

1:16 yeah such an interesting such a challenging time right now for small businesses um you know the pandemic hit them particularly hard um and here at Facebook we're you know we're really trying to help businesses through this time uh but they are incredibly optimistic um some of our research shows that you know despite being very challenged most of small businesses that we surveyed are optimistic about their future um and so we're excited about trying to help them maybe we could take

1:44 a step back and could you just give us kind of the high level view of uh what small business Facebook is serving kind of how what you do to help them get in the business stay in business find customers kind of a high level view of all that yeah absolutely um yeah we have um 200 million businesses now who are using Facebook uh for their business and they primarily do that to connect with their community and that could that

2:12 could be customers that they have today but that could also be customers who are interested or potential customers who are interested in what they have um and so businesses will post social media just like we do like you do as a person uh businesses will post uh information about their business engage with their Community um and ultimately they want to drive sales and drive business and that's uh that's what we help them do we have a number of free

2:37 tools um that businesses can use uh to establish their presence to communicate and message uh with businesses messaging has been a really big Trend that we've seen um and then they we have advertising which allows them to extend uh their reach beyond their current community and to reach uh new customers so how is their kind of Engagement with Facebook evolved during the pandemic how how have they turned you for helping them to get through this it's such a tough time and particularly

3:07 small businesses are really struggling but how are they turned into you guys to help with that yeah the the primary Trend that um that I've seen is a is a overall macro shift to the online Channel and you know there was a stat that was published that 85% of people are now shopping uh online 85% of people globally so that's where consumers are and businesses um have been shifting online and we've seen an acceleration of some of the trends and and we're we're

3:36 trying to help them um get online and so people are creating Pages they're creating Instagram profiles um they're doing a lot more posting about themselves but one of the things that we've seen is this strong connection between the communities and businesses in those communities and in fact I'd argue that the those relationships have strengthened during this time people are trying to find a way to support small businesses and we've seen a number of businesses open themselves up engage more with the

4:07 people who want to support them um and find a way to do business one of the things that I hear uh from small businesses is they they definitely know that they have to pick up their Pace when it comes to this idea of digital transformation but in some ways I don't know if if uh they have totally identified not just the acceleration part but the change of what digital transformation might have meant before Co and what it

4:37 means well during and and what'll happen eventually after we get past it maybe we could talk a little bit about what you see are some of the bigger needs for their shift how they need to to know shift how they need to maybe look at engagement how do they look at Commerce a little differently than they probably had to previously well you know that expression that um you know necessity is the mother of innovation um that's happened now and

5:06 that's how it summarized it you know and and as challenged as we've been that has driven and sparked um Innovation that I think when I talk to them a lot of businesses say you know what this is something I knew I needed to do but now I I really now is the time to do it and the great news about it when you talk about digital transformation it's you know it's even broader is you don't have

5:27 to do it all in one day and what what I've seen is is that businesses have taken steps forward and you know uh before the pandemic only one-third of small businesses had a website let alone e-commerce capabilities and so you mentioned Commerce and where we're headed we've seen just rapid Innovation you know across verticals Industries um you know Main Street is one of the things that I like to talk about because it's it's been this modernization of mainstream um and an

5:57 example of it is you know we see it across all of our towns you you being in Atlanta I'm here in the Bay Area um adventure toys here in Los elos it's a local toy comp toy store and they would always drive traffic to their store to their retail presence on Main Street and then when C when the pandemic hit you know then they put their they uploaded their catalog just literally a print out of their Catalog online so people could

6:21 call in the order and then they could drive by and they'd bring it out to you and now they have the ability to buy online so that's an example of of what's happening right now um and more broadly at Facebook what we're trying to do is we're trying to help businesses do Commerce in a lot of different ways from um reaching you customers and driving people into the store to um conducting a transaction online and shops is an

6:46 example of a product that we launched because of the pandemic or we accelerated it because of the pandemic that allow a business to create a whole presence right within Instagram and Facebook um and we've seen you know uh stat that something like 78% of shopping now is happening on mobile phones so it's it's the advancement that's happening is on the consumer side and businesses are really trying to keep up with that and I'm you know I'm really

7:13 proud of uh how we've been able to help but more importantly how small businesses have been able to innovate yeah that's really interesting because we we all heard about you know when kind of the initial stages of the shutdown happened in April late March April time frame like shop online shopping for groceries went from like here to here I mean like almost overnight and a majority of that uh shopping seem to have taken place on mobile devices are you seeing small

7:46 businesses kind of see that as an opportunity uh to not only turn to Commerce but to make sure that the the the Commerce is being different through mobile which is where everybody seems to be you know starting their their shop Journey even though we're in a pandemic and most of us are sitting in at home with about 10 big screens around us we're sitting with these screens but we're shopping via our mobile devices you know I I think it speaks to how just

8:13 pervasive mobile is and how much it will continue to be um and that you know that there is if you think about the full funnel of how you do you know marketing and sales and transactions uh you know the the mobile device has become important to all parts of it you know I think especially at Facebook we saw the transition to mobile happen and people were primarily using mobile devices uh with to be within the app and and that's whether at their

8:42 they're at their home or or on the go um and we've seen more um down what we call like down funnel type movement where instead of about it just being about your brand which is still important actually think that's a trend that we're going to see for into next year but more in you know visitation of we of a of a product on a website more onsite what we call on-site within Facebook and Instagram shopping and uh we've actually created

9:09 new um surface area and space within our apps for consumers to shop because they're on their phone on Instagram on Facebook actually looking and browsing and discovering um and then it's only natural then that the transactions will will happen so I think this is a trend we're we're going to continue to see play out another technology that was was getting a lot of attention uh you know before well before the the pandemic broke out was this whole area of AI but I I saw a

9:40 lot of small businesses really struggling with how AI helps them maybe you could talk about that in the context of how it helps them and even how it helps them right now in in the midst of what we're going through I think it's a really important uh question Brent and you know AI is one of the things I like to joke that everybody wants AI but no one really knows what it is or how necessarily to use it but the great

10:06 thing about it is that we can just look at our consumer lives and see how we're using it so an the an example is when you log into Facebook and you're you know uh working through your feed you're seeing content that's personalized to you and then the more you interact with it the better it gets and the better the content is and uh we want to serve up what's most relevant to you so we use it

10:29 all the time in our consumer lives and so the question is could we utilize the same technology for the benefit of our business as well and what we've seen from our clients is people want to use AI but they want to have control and so I think that's the right combination applied Ai and machine learning but have the control to understand what it's doing how it's doing it and ultimately be able to have um the control as to how you manage that

10:57 and so right now your question is to like what can you do with with AI right now there's a number of things you know within um any product platform certainly within ours that you can leverage um AI today and so for an example is automated ads uh some businesses are using this and others are still discovering it but essentially it allows you to set up your ads and it's not set it and forget it but essentially allows you to uh

11:23 identify your objectives Supply a budget start it with creative and then it will do the rest it will kind of handle uh running your ads for you and so you can get better results and also save time doing that uh messaging as I mentioned is a really big thing uh we've seen advances in how people consumers want to message with businesses now the question is how do you serve that up in a really effective way and technology is being

11:49 used to do that creative is another example and I love this one because think back you know two decades ago uh what did it take to make a a video or TV ad you know for a small business pretty prohibitive from a technology standpoint from a cost but now anyone with the phone can shoot a video and then with a few tools can really make a high quality production um so those are some of the ways that um that I think AI can be used

12:16 today it it's in conjunction with uh you know understanding how people react or respond to like content whether that content is video or whether it's you know text or whether it's over here or over there uh but a lot of uh small business what they struggle with is creating content from a a marketing and a branding perspective how should how can they approach you know all these new technologies and platforms to help them

12:46 with that because it's still it was hard before uh the pandemic and it seems like with more digital transactions taking place more content flowing all over it's it's harder to get people's attention and keep it long enough to turn that uh that attention into an interaction into a transaction into a subscription into a longlasting relationship so how can how can they kind of approach branding with

13:17 all that's going on to to really help them not only in the long term but help them you know get their word out and get the right uh kind of the way that they want to be viewed out in the right way branding for a small business is is incredibly important in fact I think it's going to become even more important now the challenge that a lot of small businesses perceive and face is that you know if you were to say build a brand

13:44 marketing campaign or build your brand it's kind of a daunting thing and you know businesses can be a little bit nervous about okay how do I know if the creative I produce is going to be you know is going to resonate it's going to be good enough it's going to be high uh high production quality and and so forth and um the great news about and it's happening right now during the pandemic is that it goes back to what I was

14:06 saying before that consumers want to support businesses like we really want to support and it's really about the people who run these businesses um and so what what I've seen is businesses are really having success when they show their authentic self when they just talk when they just get on camera or get in the shot they mo they they sit with their products they showcase their services they talk about who they are um and and it's beautiful

14:34 um an example of it is and it's all Industries it doesn't have to be the most exciting thing in the world but um Tom mulhollen he's a grocery store uh owner runs grocery store called malland groceries in Malin Iowa it's a small town and he essentially went online and was doing Facebook lives where he would talk you know to the camera and talk to his audience about this products and he had never done that before and people

14:59 were giving him tips they were showing him how to do it and they were rallying around him and he's you know showcasing his products he's slicing his meat and you can see his love for the product come through and that's the type of connection that is authentic and you know I think there's no substitute for that so I actually think we're going to learn a lot from this period and businesses are going to have stronger relationships with their

15:20 customers yeah it seems to me that this it is a very difficult period for everybody including definitely including small businesses um but there I've seeing a lot of creativity a lot of uh Innovation and a lot of uh focus on I think you you us the term you know empathy and and and and creating a deeper connection a deeper an opportunity for a deeper engagement that goes beyond like you know traditional transactional you give

15:52 me this amount I'll give you this product you're seeing an opportunity to connect at a deeper level how can small businesses leverage some of these tools to build that kind of deep connection uh because that's the kind of kind of relationship that allows you to usually to weather these Hard Times yeah you know it's it's interesting when uh when you know March uh the pandemic hit we saw this draw towards small businesses and then as

16:24 well um during the summertime we saw a huge interest in businesses um are people supporting black owned businesses uh the pandemic has hit black owned businesses particularly hard it's also hit women owned businesses particularly hard and the community rallied around them in fact we saw 3.5 million people join a Facebook group uh to support black owned businesses and we created a program um hash byblack Friday just to help bring the community and and and uh together we saw consumers

16:54 and businesses who naturally wanted to come together and we we you know as a platform wanted to support that so we created a program and every Friday was sort of celebration of the community who wanted to come together and it really resonated um it really helped um people and businesses connect and you know I think you know what what my advice would be to businesses all businesses at this you know stage is you know Contin you

17:20 know they obviously they have this optimism which I think is a great example for all of us in large businesses you know small businesses alike um and I think showing that optimism you know in your creative and there's nothing like a you know a video a story you know a a Facebook live which you know talking about your challenges but also showing how you're optimistic what you doing how you're changing um and it encourages people to want to

17:48 follow you you know and a good example of this is a business called noris macaroons so the business basically made macaroons for special events for weddings um and of course when the pandemic hit all of that shut down so what did they do at nor macaroons well they went on Facebook they just started to share you know about their macaroons just their love for their product and what they found was the community helped direct help take them in a New Direction

18:16 the community also at home they wanted to learn how to make the macaroons so they were willing to sign up and pay for a class and so she created using one of the new tools we launched called paid online events she ran a whole event and she charged for it and and and they made as much money in the in one event as they make typically an entire month so that's an example of um an evolution

18:38 that really was derived from the interaction uh with their community and and I think that's an opportunity to kind of not know unpredictability can sometimes be seen as a bad thing but uncertainty can also provide opportunity and opportunity for a business and I I I think that the more you're engaging with your community the more you're going to find those opportunities yeah that's really great I I think building a community around your company is becoming even more important

19:06 and and maybe has been revealed to be extremely important with what's going on currently right now but you talk about uh small retailers you know let's talk about restaurants they're I mean they're having a very difficult time uh do you have any predictions for how things turn around in particularly in that industry how what can they do we've seen kind of the the uh the ability to do touchless service or you know kind of combin

19:36 digital online more effectively with you know bricks and mortar but are there any Trends or predictions uh about how those kinds of businesses can give themselves the best opportunity to succeed going forward well I think and you alluded to it but we are seeing you know this advancement and Innovation um and you know retail restaurants and my my view of this is that we are going to move to a permanently augmented state in a in a

20:05 better sense um excuse me and and leave businesses in a um in a better State going forward it is about right now weathering the storm and trying to do as much business as you can but you know we're we're really retail 1.0 and Main Tre 1.0 is about driving retail traffic driving traffic to your store or driving traffic to your restaurant I think what 2.0 is about um is really around managing your customers driving

20:35 more customers than driving engagement around them and then your presence your retail presence your online presence your social media presence are various channels to then nurture that and Foster that and it's not only about building new channels but it's about integrating the channels as well and we talked a bit about social media and how you can leverage that um but what we're seeing with restaurants and you mentioned is you know Innovation where you can order online and then you can pick it up you

21:02 know touchless um you can uh you can even if you're not ordering but you can see the menu you can call it in and you know what what I've seen is and I don't know if you've experienced this personally but the actual pickup and takeout has gotten much better um and it's gotten more seamless and it's gotten faster and it's gotten more efficient and I think that's going to provide a channel a lasting Channel you know going forward but right now

21:27 especially with the latest Spike and just what's happening um it's really challenging I think a lot of businesses are just trying to weather the storm when you think about uh the permanency of some of these shifts which ones do you see you know becoming solidified and changing the way that we did things and which ones do you see potentially just you know like you said just the weather the storm kind of changes that when we kind of see things

21:56 getting back to whatever normal will be they may fall by the wayside how can we get small businesses to concentrate on the ones the that are permanent shifts while still managing the things that are weathering the storm kind of things I you know there's there's always going to be some things some some things we do miss today you know and and we do want to go back to dining inside restaurants we do want to go back to you

22:20 know going through and and uh and and visiting a store and being part of that and shaking hands and so forth um but I I think what's the things that will last are are the um are the innovations that are producing consumer benefit and they're and what I think it's really why why I'm so optimistic about it is that it's producing customer benefits at greater efficiencies and at greater margins than in the past so the online

22:48 if you think about your retail presence versus your online Channel I think businesses right now are starting to say okay well how much of my business is happening online and what we've seen is there's a critical uh Junction Point inflection point at about 25% that when you get to about 25% of your sales happening online this is on average across industries that you can still experience growth year on year um and so I think there is a critical

23:15 Junction Point um that happens at that but you know I think going forward what we're going and then if you line up the cost of doing business online versus in your retail presence you start to then look at your Investments a little bit differently start to shape them and as you do more online you can get more efficient and so I think there will be an opportunity for you know going forward maybe you're not going to have

23:37 the majority of your sales happening online but if you can have 25 30 40% and it's at a really high margin meaning your incremental costs are low that means you can reinvest it back into your business back into your products back into your insance back into your retail presence as well um and so I'm hopeful once we come out of this we're going to see a bit more of a growth phase and and potentially higher margins which will

23:57 fuel you know continuous growth and last week you guys put out a a report kind of the state a small business and I got a chance to take a glimpse at it but it would be great for if you could give us some of the the high level findings that came out of that because you literally it's just pretty much right off the presses here yeah uh thanks for asking about that we we have been um you know

24:24 publishing a report basically since the pandemic started really to help Shine the Light as to what's happening in small businesses we all care we all see economic data but we want to provide some some richer insights you know given the perspective that we have so many businesses on the platform as to what they're facing and how they're dealing with it and you know I think there are three major headlines the first is that it really is a rough road to recovery um

24:48 you know we've saw businesses throughout the various phases we just actually launched our sixth um what we call wave of the report and we just do this you know over time so we can see the progress but you know we saw a number of businesses close um we we have seen in the last report we saw the closure rate fell to 15% so 15% of businesses are closed which is down 11 points from 26% so that was good um but with you know

25:14 any a spike back up and more closures I I would imagine that's going to go in the opposite direction so we're in that range of anywhere between 15 to 26% of businesses are just unable to do business right now um half of them have reported lower sales um and so they're you know they're struggling and they're having to cut back on their employees on their payroll costs on their overall costs we did see some some of the you

25:39 know government um uh injection of of funding help uh with that but that was only for a limited duration of time so that's the first point it's a rough road recovery the second key headline is there has been you know in inequality in part because of you know what's happening at home you know female businesses female own businesses I talked about have been hit harder and they're spending more time on domes domestic tasks at home you know more so

26:06 than their male counterparts uh we also saw blackowned businesses and minority owned businesses hit harder um but they are also responding but here's the good news and I I'll I'll I'll close out the good news on this one which is thank you we need the good news here 56% of respondents confirm they're either optimistic or very optimistic about their future so more than half of small businesses are optimistic about their future um and you know the way I like to

26:33 think about it Bren is this is not the first challenge that small businesses have seen you know businesses who have gotten to this point have had to face challenges maybe nothing in particular like this but I'm sure they faced equally hard challenges and um and they believe in themselves and and you know the more that we believe in them as a community as customers um I think that's fueling their optimism as well have you been surprised or are

26:58 there any kind of things that have surprised you about small businesses as they've you know worked with you and and told you what they're dealing with have you been surprised by anything with those interactions when it comes to small businesses well I spoke about their optimism and resilience and I'm just so that's the thing that stands out the most you know just how much they are you know how quickly they can move how much they're willing to do to support their

27:25 business I think the other thing that's really caught my attention is that we've had local what we' typically been seen as local businesses start to really sell uh globally and this is fascinating and you know it it's powered by what's happening online but you know I I talked to a garlic farmer in um uh what was it I think it was in Nebraska basically selling her products and not just garlic but all sorts of products based off the

27:55 oils and so forth selling across the country and you know I met with a business in uh Spain who basically selling their apparel to businesses in the United States it's actually produce in the United States but you know they're actually they they hold a global inventory they're selling back to customers here so you know that and then I met with one um business in in um in Mexico where they're actually selling their you know it's a restaurant and

28:22 they're transacting they're conducting orders um online in a very small town you know and they're selling it within a a wider radius than they would have expected and they're delivering it so I think what what what have been most surprised is how these local businesses what you consider to be very local have all of a sudden expanded their their reach um and in some cases Going Global it it sounds like you know the bad situation of pandemic has kind of

28:51 forced them into becoming a more digital uh first kind of business and that has opened up the possibilities of reaching prospective customers well beyond what they were doing you know when they were operating in the pre pandemic was mostly you know location based now as they transition to create a digital uh component to their business they're s they're finding that wow there's other there's other prospective customers that

29:23 they're able to reach and that's actually becoming one of the positives out of this whole thing I I think it's exactly right and you know I think one of the beautiful things about is when small businesses do the things that small only small businesses can do um as they expanding their reach they you know a a a handsigned card um that indicates how much they appreciate it and uh shows a relationship I you know there's a business on the East

29:48 Coast that I just serendipitously found one day uh on Instagram and then I I was in the area was actually probably within 50 miles I was like you know I got to go to this shop called the city Workshop um in uh Maplewood New Jersey and I remember B going there I met the owners they were you know formerly they worked on Wall Street they wanted this is their passion it's a men's clothing store uh Roger and Josephine and I met with them

30:12 and they were just great hit it off with them and um you know bought a pair of jeans and then uh when the pandemic had I was like okay I want to support how how are they doing how you know what are they doing on Instagram what do they uh how's their business going and I remember I bought a shirt from them a t-shirt it was no big deal was just a t-shirt but they sent me the t-shirt and

30:30 in the Box was a card and it said Rich really appreciate you representing us on the west coast thanks for repping us on the west coast Roger and it was that sort of type of thing where you know he didn't have to do that they didn't have to do that but when I got that I was like you know I know that they appreciate my business and that there's a shared relationship and there's something that we have and then the

30:55 product and the transaction is a means uh you know of a of a relationship between a business and a customer and so as my advice as businesses are starting to really get choir customers all over um Foster that relationship as if the person is right there in your local community got one question before I ask you the biggest question of all at the end of this uh are you seeing uh small businesses use one of the two channels

31:26 whether it's they focus more on Facebook or versus more on uh Instagram or are you are they kind of incorporating how they leverage each channel uh in a more you know integrated fashion what I've seen is that businesses will start with typically one of Facebook Instagram and increasingly WhatsApp um and especially internationally uh and globally and then they they start with one they'll create an IG profile or a Facebook page or or

31:57 business par instance on WhatsApp they'll then start to open it up um and then they quickly realize that there are you know s similar audience but also different audiences on each of the products and so they'll then uh move and and they'll you know kind of create their presence across multiple platforms multiple of the products and our tools allow to do that pretty easily now um advertising is a good example once you go to advertise you can just kind of

32:24 check the box um and opt in to advertise your our platforms and it'll optimize for you so based upon your product your audience your ad it'll actually spend your dollar and find the best audience for that for that money you're investing uh to drive the most value um and so that's one thing we've seen that a lot of businesses they start with one but then they rapidly expand and they see the benefits and the the efficiency of

32:49 scale that comes along with that that's cool and I'm I'm assuming because there a pretty low cost of Interest entry entry for advertising are you seeing even like more experimentation between small businesses saying you know I never really thought about you know doing you know advertising but maybe it's time and maybe I could use you try with a couple of bucks and try it out we have seen an increase and experimentation with using our products including advertising uh

33:18 we've seen um people engage a lot more with their free tools and you know messaging is one of the trends that was already been in place before the pandemic that accelerated ated so more messaging as you can imagine between businesses um it used to be you would you know call the phone and they would pick up in the store but now messaging is the sort of you know everpresent uh channel uh that's available to you um

33:41 and then advertising um you know it's interesting because you know anyone with a few dollars and with a mobile phone can create an ad so the barriers to entry are very low um and it you know it's one of those things where uh what we see you know typically businesses will try ads for 60 days 90 days and then they start to see they optimize their creative they optimize their ads uh personalization they optimize um you

34:10 know their objectives and then they start to Cease the gains and the returns kind of come through and so it doesn't have to take you know a full year of investment before you see the return um and the attribution to which you can measure the results is one of the key differentiators you know that's kind of how it's different than doing a radio ad or not you know all all forms of advertising you know can be very

34:31 effective for you but one of the unique things about digital advertising on Facebook is you can measure and see pretty quickly how things are going um and yeah we' we've seen we've seen that work for a lot of businesses Rich has been great I really appreciate you taking time to do this where could people learn about a little bit more about the report or any of the other things that we talked about today yeah so we've got we've got a um a

34:54 wealth of information available online and you can go to Facebook .c buus and and that'll tell you if you're a small business a lot about what we have to offer and um and we also have you know particularly for businesses who are trying to um right now I I know we're we're right thick in the middle of the holiday season but we actually launch some content specific for the holidays and um and you can go check that out at

35:19 facebook.com seof supports where we've got a whole bunch of modules to help businesses learn how to get online manage their presence and drive transactions and the final question and the most important question of the day who is your favorite football team all right now now we're talking football well I am a I'm a Cowboys fan uh which has been a tough season it's a tough season in the NFC East but you know

35:49 Brent last week or yesterday I don't know what happened three out of the four teams won so I don't I don't know what's happening yeah was the uh the did we have some kind of a a lunar eclipse yesterday or something I mean everything lined up for the the NFC I hate to say but we've been calling it the NFC leas for a while now but you know I typically I I you know the Dallas I have a pretty

36:15 bad history with the Cowboys considering when I was a little kid in the 70s they ruined many uh uh NFC Championship game for me um but i' i' I've actually kind of moved on and so I'm not as upset now if you had said you were a Patriots fan we probably would have had a different ending to this discussion but can I ask you a question Brent then sure absolutely so yeah what what do you think about the Rams chances this year

36:41 oh don't don't do that to me man I I'm I'm very superstitious and I anybody who knows me knows like when the Rams are on I go into what I call the the no comment Zone that I don't take calls I don't I'm not on social I don't talk and and if they win that game then I'll do the same routine over and over so I'm in the middle of you know I'm not saying a thing I I we are in a tough division you

37:09 know we're tied with the seah haags is what I like to call them you know the Seahawks uh so you know I I'm just trying to get through the season without losing it that's that's my official comment man now let me ask you one are do you who do you think is gonna come out of the East I mean the Giants I thought had a little grip on it they lost and then everybody else won so technically every

37:34 team in the NFC East is still in it is still in it yeah which is unbelievable to think about um and and yeah I I don't know I watched that Giants game you know and I I went to Texas so I was I was hopeful Colt McCoy would get in and win another game but Daniel Jones kind of struggled and all of that and and then the but the Eagles coming from nowhere you know Jaylen Herz and I but I got to

37:57 say I think Washington is uh is is my favorite right now I you know anything can happen but but I think that defense just gives him a chance every single game um so I'm I'm gonna have to go with the Redskins the my rival the Redskins I know well well as long as uh Alex Smith is back I think he might have a shot but if he if he's you know banged up a little bit that might change the

38:22 equation but we shall see I'm just glad that uh we have a chance to to win our division I'm just gonna leave it at that okay but hey this has been great love catching up it's it's we cannot let another seven and a half eight years go by without us doing that I agree uh so glad to to be on with you Bren thank you so much great to be here with you thank you and I will be back tomorrow with a

38:47 really cool uh we're actually talking about uh privacy and data and all that kind of stuff with the folks at Zoho so stay tuned for that tomorrow on as I said the BBC Brent Broadcasting channel not the other guys although they do pretty good stuff take care and I will see you tomorrow