Can We Break Free from Karma? Understand Cause, Effect & Choice | Ep 07 of Exploring Sanatana Dharma

0:05 Namaste Sri Guru Bhamaha. Welcome to episode 7 of exploring Sanatana Dharma series. An initiative brought to you by Aam Ramasmi Foundation, a unit of Dakam Naya Sri Shardam Shingeri. We continue our series with our very distinguished speaker, a young yet highly knowledgeable scholar Vidwan Shri Shadavadani Lalita Ganavaram GI. I welcome you Lalita Dity G. Thanks for being here. In today's session, we'll discuss about the laws of karma as prescribed in our sanatana dharma. So Lalita G, what is karma? What does the word karma actually mean? And what are the components of karma?

0:47 So first offering my namaskaras to the padmas of the jaggus. The word karma is obviously one that is very important in our dharma. We see it a lot. We hear it a lot. We use it a lot. the word karma is used in many different ways. It is not like there is only one definition. Just as the word dharma for example, it it's used in a variety of modes. In the same way, the word karma is also used in many different senses. The one that is most commonly used in our shastras is to mean an act, a crea. The word karma and ka these two words are synonyms. it is also used to mean the fruit of an action. That is to say the karma pala what we would usually say the karma pala is it is sometimes used to refer to that as well. in a grammatical sense the karma is actually the object of a sentence.

1:42 So that is a sutra. So I saw a tree. In this sentence the tree is the karma. It is the object of the action of seeing. So these are the usual ways that karma is used in but we most often see it to mean an act. When we say like nity karma or karma or some pitra karma or karma or something like that we mean it to mean an action an act which is why we say like karma mara the path of action as opposed to ghana mara the path of knowledge. Then the components of karma. So the components of karma we can take it twofold. there is the environment that the karma is that an action is done in and the actual instruments of action. So the external components of an action for us are divided into so these are called parvas. So divisive factors that dictate what the environment of an action is. So what place is it being done in? What is the time it is being done in? And what are what is the material? What are what are the paras, the objects used in doing it.

2:52 For example, for certain danas, there is a place to be done on a river bank. Let us say a time to do it. There are some things that should be done in a punal or a parvakal or something like that. And then what should be given? Sometimes they say taladana, sometimes they'll say anadana, sometimes jaladana. Soana. So the object will also change sometimes. So these are the external parts of the karma. The internal parts are divided five-fold. So Bhagavan says this in the Gita.

3:34 So whatever anyone seeks to do, whatever karma is also used that word here, whatever action that anyone wants to do for that, there are all of these five things are causes or all the causes can be separated into these five categories. The first is the adhes that is to say the vessel of action which is the body the do which bhagata glosses in the bhashi as the bhta. So the bhta is the it is basically it is the ja but we say it is a ja it is actually the buddhi. So that is the the one who incites the action and who then experiences the fruits of the action later. So that is a bookish the indrias which bhagat says are 12fold. So the five karmas the fiveas and the manas and the buddhi. So these 12 are the karanas the instruments of action that the varated instruments of action the actual entity that allows us to act which in our dharma we call the vus. So the punch inside the body along with the five up. So the five vus are famous the prana sana besides that we have the naga these are called the five up. So if you see what these are supposed to do some are values that move up some are values that move down some are values that move within the body some are values that are meant to help food digest. Some vu are meant or are supposed to be the cause of vomiting, blinking, these kinds of things. So it is it is only one vu. Vu is one. But based on the function that the vayu carries out, the vayu is given a different name. So what we mean by vu here is not just air. It is closer to what we would call pranaki. So the that life force that allows the body to work.

5:33 So that is al that is the fourth thing. And then the last thing is dam. So usually the word da means fit which I'm sure you will have some questions pertaining to that later on because we're discussing karma but here the word da means thetana of the indrias. So theashishana of the chakarindria is surya theashtana of the p indria is vishnu. So in in this way there are there is a different that precides over each indria is the chaitananya that allows that indria to be functional.

6:04 When we say that someone does not have an indria, someone cannot see although they have the physical appendage. Shastra describes it as the the dvata there is not present or that they dwata is not maybe it is present there but the data is not giving its anugraha to that indra properly that causes some lopas or some deficiencies in the way that the senses operate. So the chaitananya that allows the indrias to work is the the fifth aspect. So you have the body, the mind, the indrias, then the life force that allows the indrias to work and then theat the theataka that allows the indria to work. So when all five of these are there, one will be able to do anything. If any one of these is not there, action becomes impossible. So in a in a very dry worldly sense, this is what goes into an action. The external components of the environment and then the actual doer of the action. Okay. So that brings to the next question. Why do we need to do karma? What are the different types of karma that are prescribed in our karma? So the need for karma is simple.

7:10 okay, first I think we'll start with the different types of karma and then we'll come to karma. So karma is fivefold in our shastras. Nitya, nita, kamya, praashetta and nidha. So of these three are optimal, one is okay, one you should not do. So the nishidha karmmas are things that are totally prohibited murder, stealing, lying, such things. if you do any of these prohibited actions which we would call a sin. If if you do any of these actions, you can you have for some actions there are some expatory rights that you can do which we call priesta kmas to atone for a sin that has been committed. then besides these two you have the three that you are supposed to be doing or two that you're supposed to do one that you can do. Nitya you're supposed to do kamya you can do. So the nity karmmas are the kmas that you you have to do.

8:04 You do not have a choice in them. They must be done daily. Karmmas the name itself will tell you that the word nima. The word nimita means a cause. There are actions done only when there is a cause for them. For example, a child is born the parents then have to do the jatakarma. You don't have to do jat karma for a child every day. When the child is born then you have to do jatakarma namaka etc. Or when when there is an eclipse there are some things that you have to do then. So you don't do those things every day. It is only when the occasion of an eclipse comes. So these nayakas are kmas that you have to do on a particular occasion but you must do them on a particular occasion. They're like an intermittent nity almost kind of. The nity are things like brahagya which you have to do that they must be done daily. Karmmas are things like these things that you do during the samscaras for example samscaras are nitas then things that you do during eclipses or in society. These kinds of things are naika. Then karma karmmas are things that you can do you cannot do. It is if you there are things that you do with a desire. If you want something you can do it. So for example it's not raining you want it to rain. There is a shastra called kish. So you do that you'll get rain. So you don't have to do this particular karma. But if you want its fruit you can do it. It is not mandated the way sanana is. So those are kam karmmas. Then this priesta is there.

9:27 The word priesta itself means to expate for something. So those are done when there is a papa. If there is a papa that has been committed and you want to atone for it not everyone wants to atone for whatever they have done. The p those who want to atone for what they have done will do a priaka karma. Those are also they are varated and then then of course we discussed those are things that you should avoid at all cost.

9:50 They're prohibited. The pala pala we can maybe discuss later but in a in a general sense these are the five types of okay so I think why do we need to do so why we need to do this is I guess I mean it is kind of there you should not do nishidha praitta you should only do if you do nishidha pria is meant to mitigate the effects of sin so that's why you should do praitta nity and nitika you should do because you get a you get a prataya if you don't there are two types of sins one is called a pratia the other is a general papa So papas are things that you get for doing something that you should not. Is the name for the ill effects obtained by not doing something that you should. So if you are supposed to do something every day and you don't do it, there is an ill effect associated with it. Forget about in a spiritual sense in a loa way also you are supposed to brush your teeth every day. If you don't there is a horrible effect associated with that. So in in it's it's kind of in that sense that if there is something that you're supposed to do and you don't do it, there is an ill effect associated with that for not doing your duty. So that is why you should do nityka. The mimakas say that there is no pala at all for nity and nitka. The fruit of nitymas and nayak karmas is that you don't get pratya but the vanta shastra says that there is a pala for nity karma not a a very massive pala but there is some sh that will come about it for example nitya in that additional gaitri japa is obviously going to be more meritorious in that sense. and of course in vanta chastra these nita and nitika karmmas have a very great benefit because they cause the reduction of papa samscaras of our impure tendencies the impure tendencies of the mind and they bring about chittashi purity of the mind which then which is mandated which is a prerequisite for getting with theas you seek to reduce the dura karma the the papas that you have and when we say papas we don't mean the actual sin we mean the sinful tendencies of of the mind so nity the kmas that are mandated are done for the sake of pure purity of the mind the prasha kmas are done to atone for the papas that we may have done and the kamya kmas are done obviously for whatever desire you have in mind if you want something you do that karma for the sake of attaining that you want a child there are some rights that you have to do for that you want to get some wealth you will do something we we we very commonly whenever there is some shakara you will do satar so satar is for example not mandated it is not a it is not enjoined in the shastra that after vaha you must do satar or something like that or afterhra you must do satinarata this is not a mandate in the shastra so these are not things that shastra enjoins on us it is not nity but we do it because there are some benefits associated with that particular that we wish to enjoy on such occasions.

12:54 So that is a karma which we do when we want something als that that we have to follow on those days. For example on Shivaratri Shivatriat that is a statement of shastra. You must do jagar on sharatri. So not every night has to be sharatri but on sharatri you should stay awake the entire night. Something on akadashi. There is a debate in shastra about whether a isika because you are supposed to fast every but does not occur every day. So is it a nity or there is a debate there. Akadeshi can also be followed in a kamia way in the sense that if you have some desire in mind you can do akades for that desire. So then it acts as a kami karma. If you do akadesi just out of a sense of duty because shastra has said it then it acts as a nity karma. So there are also some kmas that kind of straddle one or two types of categories.

13:53 So these are the so sometimes some kmas might straddle two of these definitions. we see today that a lot of people ask why should we do these karmmas at all like okay some puna some papa is there we do not see those at all. So what is the point of doing all of these kmas and especially now that vanta has become more of a fashion rather than an actual practice. We were like it's all about Ghana and understanding and feeling like you don't actually have to do anything.

14:19 That is we see this popular sentiment expressed in many places. The reality of the fact is that though you cannot there is no one who can exist without doing any karma and say there is no one can stay even for a second without doing something or not. He will say I'm not doing anything I'm just sitting. Sitting is also a karma. He he is impelled to do karma just by the fact that by the by by the force of his nature by the fact that he exists and you know he is a samsari still he cannot exist without doing karma. So when you are acting it is you have to act properly. We are not if unless you are a sasi you have to act there is karma that is enjoined on you. So when you act and honestly even sasis have certain actions that are enjoyed on them enjoined on them they have to do the ranika they have to do the pranawapa all of the namaskar all of these are things that sasis also have to do but they have given up karma in general so the fact remains that if you are doing something you have to do it properly so because no one can exist without doing karma you must do karma in the proper way we do not know what the proper way is because these are not loca things these are worldly things wherein you can say that if you do this, this happens.

15:39 If you do this, this happens. Which is why we have to turn to shastra to tell us what to do, how to do. So we have three things in shastra that describe this. So what is it that you are trying to do? First you have to know that then what are the steps of doing that? Then what are the specifics of doing that? So for example general statement do the you'll get. So what do I do for sa the jotish stoma? How do I do the jotish stoma? There'll be some anga yagas or some anga angas of that karma. Then what do I do there? There also you have to know this dvata this or this or something. So all three of these when combined have to become the totality of how you actually know how to do the karma or what to do. So this is a very big example. It can be even as simple as cooking. M if you are if you are making some simple kura some pala or something you will say what do you want to make okay I want to make this particular pala what do you need for that okay you need this vegetable that vegetable this tka that tka thing then okay so how do I do it you cut it up you put the oil you put the tka first then you so for anything that you do you need these three things the thing remains though is for these vika karmmas and smiti these two give us what karmas we are supposed to do there are some in the Quranas as well So these things for example how to do gapati puja no one can sit here without reading a book and just know how to do gapati puja for example.

17:06 So for these things that we don't know how to do it is shastra that tells us what to do how to do and the specifics of what you do. So it is because we don't have any other ways of knowing it that we have to know it through shastra alone and therefore we have to follow shastra because there is no other way that we can apply our mind to find these things out. So when we say why should we do karma? It is because you can't not do karma. So you have to do it properly.

17:31 How do you know how to do it properly? Because shastra has told us how to do it. So you follow that. Right. So you said the ill effects of bad karma can be removed by praise chitta. By doing pritta. So how exactly do you do pritta? What is the proper method of doing praitta? there are many varas within when to do it, how to do it. First of all, when does it apply? Can you just do whatever you want and then do a pria? Can you rob a bank and do prietta? Can you just want only perform all kinds of misdeeds and then do pria?

18:04 Shastra gives us leans one way. So in Manu we see that so applies when you do a mistake without wanting to. It does. It does not apply when you commit a misdeed with intent. I think for in in the current penal code also for it to be counted as different degrees of murder, you have to be able to prove intent. It is kind of like that wherein like pre meditated premeditated murder versus something like there there are some differences in the piano code also. So in the same way praashitta applies when you do something by mistake it is not intentional but something has happened how do you atone for that? So this forget about our lo kmas in terms of eating, sleeping, drinking, walking all of this in also like the sambra comes from yagas such as if you are doing a yaga by mistake the fire goes out. What do you do? There is obviously some expeditary right to do that. It does not mean that if you can like put out the fire and then just redo this priest. So but there are things wherein things don't always go the way we want.

19:22 So we have some fail safes for what to do if they don't go right that is a priest. But the very manu having said this statement that prietta applies when there is no intent to do a misdeed but a misdeed has been done. It does not apply when a misdeed is done with intent. The second half of the shloka is for a misdeed committed with intent is double that of the priest of something done without intent. So then it seems as though there is a priest. So there is a it is it it is then we we should understand it to be that priest is intended for mistakes that are done without intent. But even if you do a mistake with intent but you later repent, there is still some mitigation that can be done. So what priesta actually does is if you look at what the word priesta means, it'll tell us what it does not obviously remove the papa completely. Generally speaking, it is not like a by get out of jail free kind of card.

20:36 So the word means the manus means shana to clean. So the word priita means to clean the mind. So it is not that you are getting rid of the da that you will experience because of an election. It means that you are clearing your mind of so now we are talking about when it is done with intent. If it is done without intent, it is not for clearing the mind. It is solely to mitigate the effects of so what happens when you don't do something or when something happens in a karma. A karma has to be done exactly as told right we say means in any of its supporting elements. So everything that we talked about in the desa then the body the mind the indrias the buddhi all of these go into karma all of these must be exactly as is prescribed. So if you're supposed to be in mi, you're supposed to be in mi. If it's supposed to be a particular time, it is supposed to be in that time. If it is supposed to be a particular object, it is supposed to be that object. If it is supposed in a particular place, it is. So if any of this is out of place, that karma is not complete. Which means that there will be some in what that karma generates. It is to make up for that that pria is done when there is no intent. So we are now putting that aside. We are now discussing priita for the sake of atoning for a sinful act that has been committed on purpose or see not all sinful acts are some great heinous murders. It could be something that we get lazy, we do something in in in that pen anger or in that that that knee-jerk reaction, we may do something or you just see something, you like it without thinking you do something. All of this is still quote unquote sin with intent or although it may not be like somehhat it is not that big a deal but it is still sin that you can still atone for kind of thing. So so we are discussing that situation. So in that case what the prietta does is it cleans your mind. There is one more definition of the word priestra that tells us how it does it. So this definition of pria tells us what it is supposed to do.

22:45 The cleaning of the mind. There is one more definition that tells us how it does it. There it tells us that. So the word pria means tapus. The word chittam here means a nishaya. So because you are deciding to do tapas. It is called it isa to do tapas. It is called priesta. So priesta then entails that you have committed a sin with the appendage of appendages of the body and the mind. Tapus is austerity which basically means relegating the body and the mind, limiting the body and the mind, suppressing the body and the mind.

23:24 That is all the forms of tapus we have are of that nature only. So what this prasha does is through the suppression of the body and the mind it then quills the improper tendencies within the mind and then allows it such that those tendencies that caused us to commit the papa in the first case do not repeat later. That is the ideal goal. This is all the different types of ways that that takes place.

23:57 So the person who does the papa is freed from the ill effects of papa. What are all the ways that this happens? Through upas. So literally burning the body, right? So when you do upas, you don't have food. It generates some tapa in the body and then tapasa. So these are actual austerities. Then the par of certain mantras the japa of certain mantras and the such things certain paranas and all. Then there are some das that you can do restraints giving up certain pleasures for example sleeping on the ground or some people do this thing where they'll say I will not eat honey or something like that. I will not eat this thing for a while. So such thing these are this is all dhamma giving up certain enjoyments of the indrias. So all of this combined ends up going into priesta. Then priesta also changes depending on the individual.

25:04 So those people above the age of 80 someone who is above 80 and above 80 plus and a child who is under the age of 16. So in in our dharma shastra you become a major you are a minor until 16. From 16 onwards, 14 or 16 depending on where you see after that you're responsible for your own actions. The idea is that because until then they do not have a proper understanding of the world it is the parents the guru the guardians who are responsible for him.

25:37 after he becomes aware then he is he is liable for his own actions. So it is not like if he's 13 years old and he knows what is going on he can do whatever he wants and his parents will experience that. That that is not the intent. The intent is that before he realizes the implications of his actions, for example, a six-year-old does not know what he is doing. He will step on ants and insects and he doesn't know that he's killing a living being.

26:01 So it is the parents that have to tell him you should not do that. That is also some ja with some life in it. So then if he then continues to do that, it becomes the the burden of the parents. it becomes the dsha of the parents that they have not trained him or they have not guided him properly. So until he becomes he comes off age in the sense that he understands the his actions and the implications and he take he can take responsibility someone until that age so above 80 and under 16 besides that and roies people who are either physically or mentally unwell for all of these people the pria is set to be half.

26:40 So whatever the usual pria is the priita for this is said to be half. So so depending on the person also the nature of the pria changes in this the best way to do praitta is to not do it by not doing any papas. These as I said these are all if you end up doing them in some in some frenzy in someh there is a force that is associated with desire and anger.

27:27 In anger you just act, you don't think. Same thing comes with desire. Sometimes you want something, you just act, you don't think. Someone who can withstand the force of that the the impelling nature of of the karma and he is someone who will be happy. So the best thing to do, the best way to avoid papa is to train ourselves, to train our mind to just withstand the knee-jerk responses or the instantaneous responses, the unthought responses of our desires and our anger.

28:01 If we do that then papa will not be there. No papa no. But obviously we are human. We do. So best to also have a backup which is why shastras have very kindly given us prash. That's a real detailed explanation. we see that priita is just a backup as you said and not really the go-to solution for all the so that is why we have one one more so this has two sides to it the first part is having done the papa You have to first feel bad that have I done something right or have I done something wrong. If you have done something wrong, you should first have that remorse that you have done something wrong that you should not have done. So some part of the ill effects will be mitigated by the remorse. But if you want to become pure of mind again then you You should then decide that okay I will never do this again and it should be like it should be a very firm resolve. So first having gotten the sapa part of the effect is mitigated having then decided that he will never do it again then he is released. So it is a three-fold thing. You should feel bad do the priesta and have a resolve that you will never do it again. Only if this triad is there will the priesta actually mitigate the papacarma. So that is also told in shastra right. So the three points to it is very important. the remorse the firm resolve that of course the priority the karma and the firm resolve that you will never repeat it come what may. Yeah. So okay. so you you spoke about the fruits of action. So how do we classify karmapalas?

30:10 So when so we can classify two ways. You can you can classify it based on the flavor or on the account that it goes into. Okay. So the type of palas we get are obviously three. Bhagavan says intamas are three ways. Those that we like those that we don't like and those that we have mixed feelings about. So bhagat writes in the ones that we don't like are the fruits that lead us to pure suffering those kinds of things. The ones that we like are the things that will give us take us to sa the bohogas of saraa or pure pleasure usually most of what you do will end up being mixed.

30:53 It'll give us some suka and some da because we will do some of it correctly some of it improperly or we'll do some good things some bad things. So just based on the pala you can split papa the the karma palas into three but the usual definition that is told in vedant is of course the sanita praabdha and agami. So these are divided based on kind of when you acrewue them. So sitta is the sum total of karma that you have accumulated over the all the dozens and hundreds and thousands of amas that we have had. The total account of all the punas and papas that we have ever done is called sitta. So from that we take a birth because we have a karmic balance to restore in the universe or because you have a karmic debt to settle. You take a body to experience that karma because you have karma palas to be experienced. You you you become embodied. So then we experience our praabdha. So the karma that is taken out of the sitta to be experienced by this body is called praabhda.

32:02 So that praabdha it's it's like an allowance. So you have a bank account the child has to go for for some excursion. So out of your bank account you'll give him some 100 rupees 500 rupees. So that 500 rupees is meant for this excursion. He will get no more and no less. In the same way the praabha karma that this body is meant to experience. This body will not fall until all of the praabda has experienced. And after the prada has experienced this body will not last even if we want it to. So it is the exact amount of karma that this body has been taken in order to experience. So that is praabha. Aam means when due to the pradha we take upon a body and we do certain things that karma goes into our bank account goes into the account of karma. So the karma whose palas are yet to be gen who not yet to be yet to be generated and acured is called aami. So these are the three types of karma palas that we have. Okay. so is there a way you can do karma without yielding its effect without yielding the karma pala?

33:09 So if we don't want a karma to yield a bhagan tells in the second half of that very this will be there for he who renounces the fruits of his actions he will not be touched obviously by the sorrow or the pleasure or the mix of those which is the fruit of reaction. That aside, we experience the karmahalas because we have the feeling of doership. It is the abhimana that ties us to our karmahala. Because we feel I have done it, we end up that you have to experience. So the law is that and have to have sabana. Wherever kartwa lies there has to wherever doership lies there only the enjoyment of the fruit should also be. Which is why it is not that what do you say like I do a karma I do a karma and my neighbor experiences the pala whoever has done it will experience it. So whoever has done it is whoever feels that he has done it the sense that I have done this is what will experience the fruit of that karma.

34:21 That is why Bhagavan says in Gita in another place. Someone whose mind is purified and clear due to having studied the shastras well and due to having listened well to the guru, having studied well from the guru, having gotten proper propa from the guru. He does not feel doership. Instead he feels that because Bhagan is continuing from the five aspects of karma that he told before theishana. So he feels that this person knows that it is the body the mind the indrias the pranaki and the devatas of the indrias that are actually acting. It is not my true self the atma who is acting. I am the atma. I am not the body the mind the indrias. So it is not me who is acting the indrias are acting. He says elsewhere right Indria and Indria are the indrias are just going wherever the indrias the I will see certain things here ear will hear certain things. The indrias are doing their job. I am not seeing I am not hearing because the eye is not the that I entity is not the indrias but it is instead the atma. So he not only knows that but he feels it. the his sense of identity is not present in the body and the mind the way it is for the usual person. So if he can kill any number of people he wants he is not actually killing them he is not tied by the fruit of that action.

36:03 We say then this is a very nice thing to do right if we get then you can do whatever you want in a sense yes because once you have gotten then there is no more vidha because you have the transcended the limitations and the injunctions that apply for the body. So all the vidis and the nishas of shastra apply to the body and the mind right when we say do something muddy mi is for the body it is not for the atma when we say don't think of anything else do something with focus that applies to the mind when we say don't look at anything else that applies to the indrias so in in this way the all the vidhas and nishas apply to the body mind and senses body the indrias it does not apply to the atma so someone who knows that he is atma knows that it is not he who is acting it is the body that is being made to do something. So he knows that he does not have agency. He will not even kill anyone out of pleasure. He will act only out of duty. So for example that is why Bhagan told that to Arjuna. So Arjuna has to fight as a soldier. He has to fight for dharma. In that he will have to kill people. So if you feel Arjuna that you are killing then obviously the pala will come to you. If you say that I am the atma, the body is just doing its duty. Then because you are not the one who is acting the agency of action is not in you then the karma pala will not touch you. So it is it is the sense of I am doing I am the doer of this action. And some people say yeah I don't want anything from this. I think it is the atma. It is not thinking it is the atma.

37:34 It is actually feeling that or not even feeling knowing and experiencing in that way just as we say this is my hand. You should be able to say I am the atma and the body is merely an appendage that does what it wants or that is propelled by something else. It it is the action lies in the body not in the atma. The atma is not the kartha. Someone who experiences this as clearly as everyone else experiences the opposite. For him the karmahala does not touch.

38:03 Okay. I think the exact opposite angle to this question would be that sometimes even though we do karma properly as per the prescribed standards the required result or the karmapala is not experienced by the doer. So what would be the cause for that? Yeah. So the the nyaya sutras discussed this first goama asks the question that the sutra has discussed this. So there the sutra says he first puts the pura saying all the shastra is not a pman at all because there are something it it it is not true because I've done what shastra told me to do and I have not gotten any fruit only the sambhana for the purita is gone but I have not obtained whatever I wanted to do this for then there is also this puni in many cases in shastra things are told again obviously in shastra that is adha saying something twice is not you should not just keep saying the same thing. If you're saying something there should be a fruit to it.

39:02 So puni is also there in this way. There are some aspirations that the purapaki casts on the veracity of shastra based on exactly this question that you have asked that we have done shastra. We have done everything as per shastra but we have not gotten the fruit of our actions back. And then he gives the response. So the karta, the karma or the sadhana. So the any one of these three there must be some low in one of these. The karta does not either have the alikara that is necessary to do this or he has not followed the rules that need to u you know that need to be followed while doing this. The sadhana, the implements of action. There must be some deficiency in those or the karma either some part of what he must he may be fine and what is done maybe have been done properly but there is some part of the karma that is not yet finished properly.

39:58 Even after all of this if the pala still does not come. we must understand then that there is some strong there is some strong karma that is blocking it that otherwise would have yielded a fruit because we see more often than not that these kmas do yield the pala it is it is not farfetched we we see that it does very often yield the pala a very great deal of the time that being said now in kalyuga being you know as dedicated as most people are in these days and having as much faith in shastra as people seem to be having these days. It is obviously now very frequently the case that everything is not done properly and with the atmospherate any any fruit. So that shreddha also because it is the mental component that is the mental component of the action. So all of this combined generates a fruit. So we must understand that there is some deficiency in these.

41:09 If even then see even then not generating a fruit is a very rare case. If out of everything I have just told perfect shadha then everything has been h done perfectly. This person is also doing everything perfectly. Generally speaking this is very tough to achieve. So if even after all of this the karma palace still has not come then we must say that it is due to some strong purva karma that is just holding something back. that being said so obviously 100% perfection is not possible every time. So then what is the point of me even doing this? It is that if not 100% at least 75% 80% will be obtained. Mahasanu once told exactly in this context he's achara is saying that some people say that we cannot do everything that the shastras still so we'll just leave it a says when boy has gone for an exam he has seen the question paper and he knows that he will not answer every question in that for 100 marks does he walk out and give a blank paper he tries to at least pass the exam in the same way yes we may not be able to do every single thing that the shastra tells us to do but there is always this concept of yashaki correct.

42:24 So that that concept exists in all cases. So we should be doing our utmost effort and of course ishwara knows what we are doing. So we will get our just fruits. We'll get our dues that is not it is pertinent for us to do whatever karma we are prescribed to do as as much as possible as per our yash. Okay. what is the difference between doing karma with desire and without desire? So as we said earlier this is a very quick answer I guess doing karma with desire means that karma will lead to chitudhi. Doing karma without desire means that it gives back apala and it leads to bondage. So that is why Bhagavan says in Gita because we are talking about karma Gita will just come up so much because Gita exists to tell us how to optimize our karma both for our life here and for our sadena. So Gita is just perfect in doing that which is why we are seeing Gita so much.

43:23 Bhagavan says intra besides here means quotes is a very statement. So the word yagna here means vishnaishna is ishwara. So besides when you do the karma without any desire for yourself and as ishwara saying that this karma is offered to ishwara kind of thing this is not for me. That is why in every puja we say right we do this puja before that you will have told one long we tell all of this and then at the end of the puja we say if we have done all of this then what is the point of giving it torishna so the thing is that we do it without any desire for the fruit we do it because we should we offer it to Krishna means work is worship That is the sense that Bhagavan through shastra has told us to do some things. We are carrying out his order. So it is up to him to give us the fruit. We don't particularly care. That is the you do what you are supposed to. You will anyhow get what you're supposed to get. So you leave that to bhagavan. When you do karma in that way that does not bind you in the sense that it does not lead to more raatas in bondage but rather it leads to chitudhi. It helps with chittashhi and thereby leads you closer to the ghyan wherein you will then be freed from karma in its totality. So that is the difference between wanting to do karma and not doing that without any sa without any attachment to the karma or its fruits.

45:16 Do your duty without any of that is what Krishna told Arjuna and through Arjuna us. Yeah. So G you said if there is no sense of doership then you will not be attached to the karma. So then how does a jan mta have or accumulate karma? Yeah. So a jan mta does not accumulate karma. so first what happens during moka? we said that there are the three types of karma. praabhda, sanjita and aami. Aami has not yet been acured.

45:48 The money is still the transaction still processing. So you don't have to worry about that. Sanja is what is in the account. is what you have with you. So that cannot be undone. So through the ghana the fire of Ghana reduces the the dry wood of the kmas to ashes. So the what the the karmmas we mean there are the sanit. So then we say why does the pra the praabha of a j mukta not go? See everything is a karma. It is because the praabdha of a jan mukta is already set in motion. Sanjita is sitting there accumulated. Aami is yet to accumulate or is in the accumulating stage.

46:36 Praabhda is already set in motion. And one more thing is pra see the kmas that are set in motion are always not so simple because the kmas of this person inform the kmas of other people. So someone has to get some pala from some the mta for example achar gurus are there they do some anugraha. So that is an interaction says something someone feels something a does something so or mtas they do something someone else feels something from that. So these interactions with the world are there if there is no karma as you said without praaba the body will not stay. So if those interactions have to happen which means it is like interlocked with other kmas. So if those all have to happen this also has to be there. So this doesn't go because it is locked in because it is already in place. It is locked in with the kmas of everything else. So it doesn't go. Everything else is reduced to ashes though. But so that is why says in that is the strongest out of these three kmas and is the strongest. It'll only go after you experience it. Even for even for the other two and a means withhana with the fire of ghana for them but is the strongest because it is set in motion and is attached it is tied to many other workings of the world. The ishra has already arranged his karma palas and set it off. So they liken it to an arrow that has already been shot.

48:20 Sanjita is the arrow in the quiver. and prada is the arrow that has already been shot. You cannot put that arrow back in the quiver. So praabda has to run its course. Now there is one more question. So see things don't disappear, right? In our thing matter is not created or destroyed. All of that is there right? That applies in our philosophy also. No entity just randomly disappears. So where does this karma go? So tells us his relatives and all will get his possessions. Jan Mta had a house. His son will get that some bank account will be there. They will get that money. All of that will be there. Those who act with the appropriate humility to it such as even mta they get his punasy. Those people who act with ill intent towards those people or who are unfavorable to the jan muktas they receive all the papacmas that he has accumulated. So it is doubly important that we be very careful in dealing with acharia purushas and gurus and all because you know we we say doing their sava is good for us. It is also for this reason. So the end of the the moral of the story is that the jan mukta does not have sanit and aami but the praabda has experienced. So although bhagat pada said this in the vacham bh bh bh bh bh bh bh bh bh bhagatada says inakanaba does not have karma at all. So then we get confused. Bhagat pada said this here and that there. So what Bhagata said there is he knows he is not the body. Jan Mukta knows he's not the body. What is actually experiencing the fruit of the karma? So whatever duka is experienced what how does dka come in the form of many things ara for example it's an illness what what does illness come to the body what experiences the sorrow of the illness the mind the guani is not any of that is is the atma so the does the atma have sanja praabhar aami it does not so the jan mukta actually does not have any karma at all but from the loika standpoint also the jivan mukta does not have sanita and aami praabdha is it seems to be In shastra this is called the dhaanya.

50:39 So you lay out a cloth on the ground. You light a match and you burn it. The ash will remain in the same shape of the cloth. So it look like the cloth is still there in the same form but it is actually gone. It is now ash. So for the jan mukta the praabdha and the way it works on the body is akin to that in the sense that yeah we see the jivan mukta's body still there. We see the body is still experiencing some sukas and dukas.

51:02 It is not like if the jan mukta touches fire it is not hot for him and it doesn't pain the body the fire is still hot ice is still cold but it is touching the body it is not touching the jan mukta who is residing as atma so for the third the for the agyani who is an observer the jan mukta does not have sanita and aami also but he will still appear to have praabha because as we said all of the samsari's kmas are still tied into that so we still see that we still see the interactions with the body and all of that so It seems that he has praabda to an onlooker. But for the atma which the jan mukta is there is no more attachment. Okay. So if praabda is so strong then that even a jan mta's body has to undergo experiencing. Yeah. Then where is the place for free will in the system? How does you know how does a human being apply his intellect in his daily activities? So this fate versus free will is a it is a question that all philosophies and all religions have dealt with. The concept of predestination even in the Christian systems also has been a topic of debate for a long time. You know are you destined to go to heaven or hell or does what you do here actually matter or any of that. So obviously that is a question that has to be answered. We can we know what a free will is. It is our decision to act. So first we have to define what fate is. Fate is not some man in the sky raining down orders upon what should happen to us. You see that the definition of this is given. So whatever karma we have done in the past the force of the karma that we have accumulated in the past that is what we call fate. Da which is another word for fate. All of these are words for fate in samskita. All of these are words for fate. So the fate is nothing more than the karma that we have done in the past.

53:03 So fate and free will are actually not at all opposed to each other. Fate is what happens to us. Free will is what we do. These two things are completely separate. What happens to us is not what we do. We choose to act something whether a breeze blows you feel something nice. That is not that is different from do you turn on the fan so that the breeze comes that is separate. You choose to act something will happen to you because karma is there. Whatever happens to you is anyhow whatever is supposed to happen to you will anyhow happen to you. Free will is what you choose to how you choose to act now that will then affect the future and the yoga gives an example that of a yoga. So because of what you have done in the past, you have got an illness now. You can choose to take a medicine now such that the yoga does not affect you in the future. It is it is that simple. So fate and free will are not at all juxtaposed because they are two separate entities.

54:00 It is what has happened or what will happen to you and what you do. One thing you can choose to act and what happens to you there is nothing that you actually have to do. so the yoga is very clear. Then we say one more thing. So something is supposed to happen to me. I am doing something so that something will happen to me. There there is a conflict. I I want to have a I want to obtain some suka. So I do something. But do I have the yoga for that suka to come to me or not? That is also one thing. So here also there are two cases. One is a case where the suka that you're supposed to be getting now is a sukha that is being generated. It is not a suka that is accounted for by your previous kmas. For example, you see in the piranas right? Some couple will be cursed that they should not have children. So if they try for children, the curse that they should not have children will be holding them back.

54:50 Correct? So this is this is the case in which we get the virha. There will be some case that the sha is that they will not have children. This fellow wants a job. There is no there is no virha there. So now the fate versus free will comes when there is some previous karma that dictates what you will experience. You want some particular experience then what happens? So actually the jagatguruhanu has given a nice example that there is a nail in the wall you have given it has been hammered into the wall. You do not know how many hammer strokes it took to press it into the wall. So you do not know how hard you have to pull to get the nail out of the wall. That does not mean that you stop pulling. You have to at least try to pull. If then you can pull at all and it doesn't come then you have to accept that it is it has been driven in too far. But if you can pull it out, you will not know if you can pull it out unless you try. Right? So first of all, it is that even if something is predestined, you still must act. Most things are not predestined. But even if it is predestined, you still have to act. And one more thing is there that even if something is predestined, many a time it'll be the general concept that is predestined. So there is one thing that tells us in shastra While the ja is still in the garbha five things are set his karma what he will do as a profession in life profession means not that he will work in Oracle or he will work in IBM or something just generally is he going to be an intellectual worker or is he going to do something else will he rule will he serve what will he do so will he be rich will he be poory will he be educated illucated when will he die how will he these five things will be decided while he's still in the womb itself. So he's born with these five things. But the is not decided. So the what he does a general thing would have been there. It will not say for example he will be in public service. It will not say whether he'll be PMCM or the district collector and that is not there. One more thing is that through hard work and through great karma these can be changed. One more thing that shastra tells us is so great and very intense punas and intense papas. So right for example punas you have given away and enter samraja to someone that is obviously very great puna. So a great papa you have massacred everything that orang and all those people did right you have massacred thousands of innocent people and all of that you have destroyed temples and whatn not want such great papas and or great punas have been done with those within three years within three months within three fortnights within three days intense and papas you will get that the fruit of that here and now. So basically what this is is intense pun and papas add to your praabdha. Now praarabhda is what should be experienced by this body in this jma. Intense puna and papa can add to the praabdha and change the praarabhda. So you know it is why that is why the entire priita that is why it works. See if praitta doesn't affect us in this life then what is the point of priesta? So the the it is because karma does have the effect to interface with our praabda that we even do some things. So first of all we must act.

58:26 Then what happens there also yoga. So that is to say like two rams. If you see two rams they they butt heads. Whichever is weaker of the two that will retreat. Just how the two rams they collide. If you if you see how they actually do it the two rams collide they stagger back a bit then the one that has lost goes away. So in the same way the so whatever has been whatever experiences have been destined by by our one karma of the past then the karma that we are doing now whatever we want to experience now these two collide the stronger one will prevail. And one more thing as I said even there let us say that our the fate prevails even then it is still our free will that has won that has won because that is the result of our free will of the past. We have chosen to act in the past it is the result of that action that is obstructing us. So actually we see even that these shapas and vas that are given in piranhas and all they are not may they are not top-ups they are the declaration of what will happen for what they have done someone does an apachara towards the rishi that rishi will immediately curse him it is not that the rishi has gotten very angry he feels that his ego has been hurt so he's pronouncing something it is that there is a sin that comes with disrespecting a mahatma that sin is given voice as the shapa. So in the same way you you have done you've done for the fruit of that comes as the way people say that Shiva keeps giving vas to raashes he doesn't have a choice it is the it is self this concept of self manifestation is there right these days that is exactly what it is whatever you do is what you get so that is exactly what self manifestation is so the raashas have done some tapas for which they have to be given some pala the pala of their tapas is just vocalized by shiva it is not that Shiva is like I don't care whether he is good or bad I will give him a v because I feel like it even to a punyatma Shiva cannot do that even to a punatma Shiva can only give him the fruit Shiva Vishna or Dvi whoever appears in front of him they can only give the fruit of whatever he has accumulated for himself so let us say even that our efforts are not enough to overcome fate even then it is our efforts that have prevailed because fate is the result of our efforts of the past so what happens to us anything can happen to us But we choose how to act.

61:12 It is up to us how we choose to act now. So it is up to us to act in a consensious manner. It is up to us to it is up to us to act. There is nothing that will make you act in anarmic way. Fate will never force you to act in a certain way. You are choosing how to act. So you have to take that into account and obviously our system the law of karma dictates that you take ownership of those actions. Ishwara will give you that karma pala regardless of whether you want it or not. So when it comes to fate and free will, free will is certainly the greater of the two.

61:44 first of all because you can act to overcome fate. We see that in shankara story. So Achara's Aisha by birth is 8 years. If you see in the shankuja vasari tells Bhagat Pada that your Aisha so after Bhagat Pada talks with Vasamari and Kashi Vasari comes in the guise of old Brahana. They discuss the brahutras then vyasari shows himself to bhagat pada. Bhagavat Pada had so by age four done with by the 12th year 12 done with all the shastras by age 16 the bash are done.

62:23 So Bhagata had that finished all the bash by 16. So that is why at age 16 this debate with the on the brahutra with vasamari this discussion with vasamari had happened. So there then Yasim Mharshi reveals himself to Bhagavat Pada and Bhagat Pada then says I am done. I know my 16 years are up. So if you just wait here it is Kashi the presence of a Mahatma such as you. This is the Manikarnika just wait here I leave my body. Vasari says wait on wait for a second hold on that is not what is supposed to happen. Your Aisha vasi says this verb this is there in the shanka that byia by birth your was 8 years you earned eight more years for yourself by virtue of your tapas your sadena and all of that. So the the practice of pranayama lengthens the life span. In the same way if those people who do vida for that vam thea vi happens by serving the elderly the jestas and all.

63:27 So there are things that lengthen the so that so you by birth you had 8 years you earned eight more years for yourself through your anashtana. So your 16 years are up now but now I am giving you 16 more years to then do then you know that is why the fourth line of the shloka exist otherwise the shloka would only have been three lines and shloka shanka but that gaya has to happen has to go qu all the establish show sanatana dharma show the truth put these four pas so that we still have dharma to this day all of that has to happen. So I'm giving you 16 more years. So you see that obviously this does change. So you can even alter your praabha or add to your praabdha through proper action through karma. How to act and all bhagavan has told in ga or shastras have told us have told us have told us our elders have told us all of that is there. So it is our free will. It is through our free will because we do have free will that we have to act in a certain way. We have to act now so that our fate will be good in the future. To sum it up, great. I think that's the purpose of having a free will. It is pertinent for human beings as a species who have such high intellect that we need to act now and in the right manner so that we have some portion of the prada that can be manipulated with the good work that we do. So I think Lar that brings us to our last question of the session which as you mentioned earlier.

65:07 this is about the law of manifestation and that has been trending these days. So everybody is of the opinion that what we think of can be manifested in the universe. So as per our sanatana dharma is that a concept that is existent and available to human beings? If so how does that work with the dharma palas? So as is the case with sanatan dharma, we'll finish this on a very vantic note. This entire universe has been manifested by the ja. Forget about what this person wants in this life. The fact that this universe exists is self manifestation. The first person to ever self manifest was Ishwara when he decided to create the universe. Right?

65:47 So he he wanted this universe to come and it happened and say he desires it happens. It is a scalpa. Sulpa armatma scalpa is what happens and of course knowing as we do in adita that the jvatma is just ishwara in a limited is not ishwhara it is the sudha atma in a limited capacity the unlimited atma when it works with maya ishwara that same sudha atma limited by the capacity of the body and the mind is called the ja so there is one paka of advita that is it is the paka that is meant for the uttahari so people who have the most the most clarity of thought, the most capability to understand very high philosophical concepts without taking it the wrong way. So for those people there is one concept that has been told called.

66:38 So it is basically what you see you yourself have created. M so it is basically that I turn I see this I have just created that this whatever I've seen before has gone I turn back whatever I see now I have just created that that has gone and it has gone in the sense that obviously if I'm not perceiving it it is not there in my world it we can understand it in that way but in a higher sense it is that whatever we empirically observe is there for the time being right that is what we mean by mitya mitya is not something that doesn't exist it is something that appears to exist temporarily Okay, that is what we mean by mitya. It is not that it something that doesn't exist. So when the common thing is if everything is mity then how can you interact with the world? Mity does not mean something that doesn't exist. It is something that temporarily exists. It is it is the matra it exists as long as it is perceived. That is what we mean. So that is actually the beauty in that there's only one ja. He's in this body. All the other bodies that we see are actually nirva. Wow. There is only one ja. So for me that is my ja and I just see this entire world. So yourself included, our viewers included. everyone else is not a separate ja and for us this seems very strange or sometimes even comic.

67:58 But this is what happens to us. Every night we go to sleep. Yeah. We dream. In that dream we see our parents. We see our friends. You see animals there is no see this dreamer actually has a chaitana. The dreamer is a conscious entity that is dreaming. Does the dream elephant have a consciousness of its own? Do the dream parents have consciousness of their own? But yet we interact with them and in the dream it is we don't the dreamer does not know that it is his own sulpa that is acting as those characters of the dream. Right?

68:28 If if someone if a tiger is chasing us in a dream we don't know that yeah I'm only telling the tiger to chase me. That is not we are terrified and you run because you view the tiger as separate. In the same way the ja also in the in the vaha also it is the ja who alone experiences all of this as a dream. That is why tells us in the pancharat I will tell you one thing that is good for you. If you can understand it that is all that you need. So here it's it's the point is that this is not for everyone to understand. The lay man cannot understand this and should not act based off of this because they will not understand it properly. But what is everything you see in a sapna is mity the sense that the dream exists you interact in the dream the experience of the dream are very real as long as you are dreaming right once you wake up obviously then you say that this dream is not real but as long as you are in that dream that experience is very real.

69:27 You do see trees. You do feel the breeze. You do like things. You do dislike things. You do all of that. You choose to act in the dream also. So all of that is there. So the all of this is there as long as you dream. The second the dream ends obviously all of that goes. Remember that the same applies to the as long as there all these interactions persist. Once again goes you are realized. You realize that you are the sudha atma. Then as you said earlier you are a jan mukta and then all of this is just a you can view it as a dream. So there are actually some dreams where we know we are dreaming. There are some dreams where we are we are part of the cast. There are some dreams where we are the director is part of the cast.

70:13 It is kind of like that. So some dreams where we know we are dreaming. If you notice we are much more calm in those dreams. You're like I know it's a dream but I let me just see what happens kind of a thing. There are some things where you don't know you are in a dream and as long as that is there you are still persisting. So the jan mta knows that all of this is just for the time being it is there because of my praabda. As long as kmas are there all of this will be there. If karma goes none of this will continue to persist. So in that sense the ja has actually self-manifested this entire jagat in the very high vantic sense. Okay. Now to come to the normal sense self manifestation is just that whatever you want if you put your mind to it and act accordingly of course you can achieve that is what we have discussed in fate versus free will so when the salpa has to be strong if the salpa is strong and you act accordingly that will that will happen that is why we have the concept of blessing and cursing in in forget about shastra in our local thing right why when we have some shhakara some marriage or some or some function is there We ensure that we ensure that everyone is happy. We don't want anyone to go away from their dissatisfied because we feel that if anyone goes there from goes out with a dissatisfied heart and says ch they have not taken care of me properly and with a pure heart if they wish ill of us that will happen. With a pure heart if they wish well for us that will happen. This again happens because that wishing and not wishing is based on our kmas. If we have acted nicely to them, obviously they will wish well for us. If we have acted improperly with them, obviously the result of that is them wishing ill for us and thereby duka. We have acted well with them but yet their mind is so crooked that they wish ill of us. Then some purva karma is there for which we have to experience duka. This just ends up being a conduit for that. So in that way this does exist. The self manifestation is there. But in the big picture this enta is is self manifested by we should not say the ja because the ja is not by the atma this entire cosmos everything that we see is self manifested by the atma. So just as that is why the likeness is given to help us understand this that just as we sleep and we dream up an entire cosmos Vishnu sleeps paratma as Vishnu sleeps on that shaya and dreams up this entire world.

72:37 So in that sense yeah this entire cosmos is a manifestation of the atma of paramatma. Okay thank you so much G. I think this has been a very insightful session and I'm sure all our viewers have had their questions on karma answered by our very highly scholarly person sitting here. Thank you so much for your time. we'll see you in the next episode. Namaste.