What's Your Scorecard? (Coaching Session)

0:00 [Music] hi K good to see you hello Joe so what what do you want to do what do you want to do a coaching session on today I um you know we've talked a lot about um my relationship with money I think that's one one TR one difficult part in my life I'd say that's one another one that I've realized recently is um just kind of

0:30 this ongoing need for validation and I think it's kind of I I I look at my career where I chased money and status for a while and kind of achieved some of those and then kind of very quietly said well I don't care about those things but instead I want likes and attention and notoriety and people to talk about me and so I wonder you know there's definitely a grasping and a clinging there so that would be

1:02 kind of another another they're probably related but that would be another interest yeah awesome so let's see here uh and just what what's the relationship with money now what how would you describe it and what's what's what what's the thing that doesn't feel aligned about it I think that intellectually I don't you know but I don't not

1:34 intellectually I'm fine with the amount of money that I have if I just show up Do My Thing invest semi normally right yeah will be tell tell me about the tell me about what's the emotional component the well the emotional component is that um there's still some kind of scorecard that I keep in my head and it kind of selfworth kind of Awesome Ates with that uh you know like the Market's been up a few days I'm

2:04 like ah just like feel a little bit better about everything yeah yeah and but it's really that kind of scoreboarding it's kind of like I'm always looking at other people and it's like oh I'm there's like there's this feeling where I'm like oh I'm better because I have more financial success yeah but I also know intellectually that it's a I will lose that game like in the long run and it's very unsatis feels

2:37 problematic great okay so uh what if there was no scorecard you just literally couldn't believe in a scorecard every scorecard you were just like it's not it's not at all accurately assessing in your in your heart in your body if there's no scorecard what would what would you have to sit with I think I'd be

3:08 lost yeah I think yeah I would be I'd be rudderless yeah that's great how does it feel to be rudderless it's funny you like uh as you said that is like this you know like when you drop on a roller coaster and your your stomach catches up with you on the drop that's like that's what I felt in that in that moment um how is that feeling different

3:39 than Freedom how do it do I mean that that feeling is it's almost it's a derivative of getting punched in the gut so let's say you jump off of you bungee jump off of a bridge and you have that exhilaration of like oh I'm flying how is it different it's it's only the scary part of it not

4:10 the accelerating part of it okay so it's kind of the is the bunge gonna is the bunge gonna hold or my let's say that let's say you actually find out with 100% certainty that there is no scorecard there's no there's no way of describing your worth

4:45 accurately it's it's it feels very it's it's scary because I feel like I don't know myself in that world yeah right there's this thing that they do now called like a Darkness thing have you heard about this where you basically like go into so you put a mask on and then you get put into a cave and you're like just in the cave it's pretty

5:17 luxurious but like you're in on a with a mask in a dark cave you can't see anything for like days on end and I'm just gonna ask you to imagine that that is your life forever how what would be the scorecard you still exist as much you're in this cave and and you can't see right can't see it's all it's dark the weather the

5:47 temperature is the same there's no outside interaction yeah all that's happening is what's happening inside of you you have all your needs met what's what's the scorecard survival yeah you got food comfortable bed five star hotel it's just no interaction like a like there's you know like literally what's around the corner because what's lurking behind the corner

6:19 all right that's great awesome so if you're enough what does that do to change your capacity to what's lurking behind the corner if you're enough if you're validated if you have enough check marks likes dollars in the bank account women whatever friends loved ones whatever acolytes if you have enough of those how does that help you deal with what's around the

6:52 corner in I think I in that that situation it's as if it doesn't it doesn't seem like it matters because it it really does like you know nothing's going to I I really feel like my survival is at risk even though you know it's a Four Seasons yeah that you've described and so it's almost like no one cares like

7:24 whatever threat is lurking around the corner no one cares about your SAT score right or your uh your business card so so so it doesn't matter what specifically is trying to survive I think that like my my body right like my physical body I think it's I know if you knew you

7:57 you're physically being safe What would then if you had 100% transparency and Clarity that you were going to be physically safe for the next 30 Years yeah yeah we're all going to die like the only thing that's actually certain is that you're not physically safe but let's just assume that 30 days 30 years you're physically safe yep what's what's what's scared what's left to be scared of in this dark room uh loneliness and what dies in the

8:28 loneliness what dies what dies if you have no scorecard I think um I when you ask it that way it's almost like the scorec card ensures like human connection right like it lets people

8:59 people see that I'm I'm here I'm right I'm here I'm good I'm I'm alive right um it's like a you know it's like like kind of like um waving a sign at a protest right it's like I'm here like look at me pay attention to me right yeah the thing that's interesting about yours the

9:29 scorecards you choose they can be taken away from you yeah they're not completely within your control yeah what's what what would be the internal scorecard that says I'm good I'm valid that can't be taken away from you I think that um they can't is my my ability to love

10:04 others uh that can't be taken away it also can't be measured um yeah it can't be measured accurately but yeah there's a definitely a different sensation in one's body if you have a capacity to love or if you have more or less of a capacity to love yeah absolutely um what can't be taken away

10:35 ability that you can measure that like that says hey I'm good I'm valuable so right now now you're entering into this kind of spacious is what it looks like to me

11:05 yeah so from that place can you describe the bank account don't go into your intellect just in that space just like that recognition of the truth of who you are that creates a lot of Silence in your system from that perspective what what does that what does that see or know about your bank account um feels

11:38 very it's doesn't matter or it's a disconnected unconnected um I think there's a part that wants to wants to grasp but I'm kind of not I'm not feeling the urge to grasp you know I think my intellect saying grab for it grab it grab it but it's right it's not really appealing

12:08 yeah I think that just just to remind ourselves just go back to that question of what is the scorecard that can't be taken away from you the internal one there's still something about safety coming up

12:38 yeah it's not this experience is not safe no no right it's going to be gone so therefore it's fleeting the thing that's observing this experience is going to be gone your body is going to be gone there's nothing safe about this it just admits it yeah the bank account doesn't admit

13:25 it I feel like the first thing that comes up is is what can I do in this moment what can I think about what can I say to feel safe that's yeah and and does that put points on the board or take them away from the internal scorecard I I I think it's like pay attention to the internal

13:57 scorecard it's not an intellect ual thing it's just you know and if you have the thought what do I have to do to be safe and let's do a Ab test against the thought process of oh I'm never safe which one puts points on the board or I've been doing stuff to be safe in the moment

14:29 not the future in the moment I I'm not saying that that's not right I'm just saying like in this moment if you go oh I have to do something to be safe does that take you away does it bring you closer does it put the points on the board does it take them away in the moment the moment the moment it I don't doesn't feel feel

15:00 necessary yeah does it make you feel safer to have the thought in the moment what do I have to do to be say again I was asking which thought what do I have to do to be safe or what can I do to be safer

15:32 does that increase the sensation of safety in the moment or decrease it decrease or no change but not increase not increase what do you suspect your life would look like if all you did did was just pay attention to this scorecard instead of the likes instead of the bank

16:04 account instead of the kicking ass in surfing whatever it is um dad's approval think the first word that comes to mind is like Meandering or wayward H right it's that loss feeling because you don't have a scorecard kind of thing yeah it's like the scorecard is the map

16:35 so to speak yeah um but but also there's like a there's a there's a glimpse into Freedom right yeah but it's just it's just a glimpse it's not right yeah it's not as full-throated what what if this is a compass and all it can do is just point where North

17:07 is or point in the direction you're supposed to go but it's there's no [Music] map I I mean I I trust it not fully but I'm willing to I'm willing to to I'm willing to play yeah well so the you you you followed the first map which was money it didn't get

17:39 you where you wanted to go you're following the second map which is likes which clearly isn't getting you where you want to go or we wouldn't be talking about it where do you want to go it's hard it's hard to describe with words

18:09 because I don't think it's a I don't think it's a thing yeah right I don't think it's a container uh and and this this Compass that's like there when you pay attention to the internal scorecard how far away are you from the thing you want to be internal score can you say that again please

18:40 yeah I'm gonna do it in steps so the question is what's the what's the scorecard that can't be taken away from you and you and it and it looked like we were kind of thinking that it's like a compass it's like you just know what's true for you like what brings you closer to yourself or further away from yourself it's a a piece of sorts yeah so go there pay attention to that Compass or scorecard or whatever you

19:10 want to call it and how close is that to the place you want the map to take you I can't tell if it's this is just the place it is the place meaning there is nowhere to

19:43 go or the place will by just trusting it or or listening to it it will get me to where it will get me to the place if that makes sense yeah so like if is it is it just this way of existing or is it this way of existing

20:17 being that eventually reveals what the you know like the the ultimate destination what makes that a dichotomy and instead of a both and like what you're there in there there's an assumption of a dichotomy what makes you assume a dichotomy I think that there is some element

20:52 of not not moving is I guess the F the first thing was like not moving is is bad right and so so the so being so the dichotomy is

21:26 that that being and just being with with that internal Compass [Music] is insufficient in if it doesn't actually move you to some other place ah yeah what's the part of you that's NE what's the part of you that's never been I don't need an answer as much as like can you how do you get in touch with the

21:57 part of you you right now that has never been moved that has never been touched that has never been affected that is or the part of you that's always been there the same way since the beginning till now do you mean to kind of connect with that part yeah

22:39 and now tell it that it has to move and I want to hear what its response is you have to move to be valuable you have to get somewhere to be valuable it say it out loud if you would be so

23:09 kind yeah it's it's [Music] saying it's basically kind of scared of the authority figure the the person giving the order saying like where do you want me to go just tell [Music] me it almost like it it has no agency

23:41 that when it's just waiting to be told and scared I mean fear comes up often yeah when you were a kid how often did the rules of the game change the game of getting attention and approval which is what every kid does you can open your eyes if you want how often how often did the rules of the game change I feel like with my parents it

24:13 was very transparent in that they were pretty consistent about what the rules were I think that when you did it did you get the reward there was not a fa there there was there weren't a lot of adab boys in uh growing up so the gold post constantly moved there's no winning where like how did you win tell me about one time that you won with your parents where you felt

24:45 like I won I got it done I think when they caved and bought me a Nintendo when you got them to do what you wanted them to do yeah or oftentimes it was like buy me what I wanted them to buy I think that that that was very much uh the the the conflict is I want I want this and it's like well do well in

25:18 school and then you can have all the X all the Nintendos you want in the world right so I never thought of it as goalpost moving but I guess that's like the ultimate example yeah right it makes sense why you chased money first winning was when you got what you wanted financially and that feels very very Salient I I I basically

25:50 remember my my parents saying no to anything that I ever wanted like physic physical non-s survival needs toys clothes games comic books that stuff yeah and I remember a fierce determination it was like no one's ever gonna tell me what I cannot and cannot have yeah I was like I start making money when I was 13 years old yeah um how about just say this sentence out loud

26:20 for me which is nobody's can ever tell me that I can or cannot have safety nobody oh and add safety to it um nobody's ever going to tell me that I can or cannot have safety what happens in your system when you say that a little bit of that bunge jumping plunge what made

26:51 the what made the what made it so clear in your system about the money but not so clear your system about the safety I I never I rarely felt safe as a kid and that was because I had to walk to and from school by

27:23 myself and like you could get jum and I got jumped a handful of times yeah me too so I never I hated walking less walking to school because everyone walks at the same time but it was walking home from school when everyone was walking home at a different time yeah and yeah I hated that feeling right but what you weren't doing was taking MMA

27:54 classes at 13 you were earning money at 13 yeah what what was the what created the determination around the money and not the safety because you meet people who are just like yeah I'm not going to feel unsafe and they learn how to kick ass yeah I think part of it is probably cultural where you know being of Asian descent my parents are very

28:24 non-confrontational very kind of scared of authority figures so the difference sounds like tell me how off I am here the difference was your your parents were taught you and were confident in the fact that you could do what you needed to do to be able to buy any Nintendo you ever wanted but they were not confident in the fact that you could be safe safety was not something that they saw was a possibility for

28:56 you I think yeah I mean there was zero zero talk ever in our family about self-defense fighting fighting back I mean he safety even in a broader sense did did how much did your parents conceive the idea that they could be

29:28 safe as a real possibility I don't think they'll ever truly believe that yeah I know my dad for sure yeah and how much did they did they believe that they could be well off that they could have Financial Security by than Nintendos yeah

30:01 I definitely more than safety yeah I remember my dad's my dad you know like many parents have this aphorism that sticks with you forever and so my my dad's for us was we may not be the smartest but we're the hardest working right like you you kind of got me you you nailed me pretty well with that one Dad yeah okay so where do you go when you get to the top of the mountain where does the map take

30:38 you I [Music] mean it's so often looks for another Mountain to scale right I think I don't know if you're priming me here but I do feel like there's something about kind of Idol illness being like it makes you a Target right like a Sitting Duck of sorts so um the these scorecards the

31:09 money the the likes whatever the scorecard is the um what happens when you get there like when you get to the top of that mountain where do you go what like you talked about like a wayward feeling like yeah I think you I think I feel un well there's uh you're kind of hit

31:40 with this kind of wave of dissatisfaction in the in the sense of like that's it this is the thing you know like kind of the classic yeah hedonic treadmill type stuff but like wow that's that's it I have a question for you so that sensation of like I'm there like I'm at the top of the mountain yeah or that moment where you went internal and you saw the scorecard the internal scorecard that could be taken

32:12 away see see what it's like take a moment to feel internally um there's no place for me to go and I'm lost like put those two together you felt it earlier in this session but put those together for a second I have I have no idea where to go and I'm lost and now put together I have no idea where to

32:44 go and I'm not lost I know exactly where I am the first thing that like popped up really loud was the word trust it's almost like in giant letters it's like there is this it's like do I

33:18 trust it's like do I trust myself right do I yeah [Music] and when I'm on top of the mountain I you know for some reason when you asked that I was kind of I was on top of the Wall Street Mountain that's where I was visualizing myself yeah and I definitely did not trust anything about the situation other than my ability to make more money

33:50 right yeah so what if that's the scorecard how much you trust yourself that was like both deflating and inspiring at the same time what did it

34:22 deflate it's so much easier to trust than a scorecard yeah you know the works you know it the works done for you is is what it's yeah it's it's trust that yeah I I don't I'm not sure I trust myself what if that's a scorecard you put score you put points

34:53 on the board the more you trust yourself points lead your bank account is self trust what if that's the or your likes are self trust I mean feels pretty awesome which is weird because I always trusted

35:24 myself when there was a score you it's like if give me a scorecard I'm gonna find a way to rack up points on it great so there's tremendous amount of trust there yeah but when you remove that I'm like oh wait it's like like all these conflict it's like you trust yourself but you know it's there's all these that's why I was like deflating and inflating yeah simultaneously yeah what if trusting

35:55 yourself that's one of those moments that I won't be able to uh UNH here in a good way yeah there's one other just piece that I want to speak to about it which is um like um a tree doesn't have a goal but it keeps on evolving

36:29 like the idea that you could stop evolving is like the only way you could stop evolving is by [Music] dying like there's this fear that like oh I don't I won't I won't keep on going if I trust myself or if I listen to that internal scorecard or whatever is there's that idea as if like your strain is

36:59 required to evolve like you you did the most evolution in your life from zero to eight years old and you weren't consciously trying to get some place you probably did your least evolving in Wall Street between 28 and 38 years old than you were striving the whole time

37:32 they're they're not correlated is what I'm saying they're sometimes correlated sometimes not you mean what do you think what do you think happens to your Evolution if your scorecard is trusting yourself the more you trust yourself and you get really good at it you do the same thing you did with the money the same thing that you did with the likes and you just like your scorecard was how much you can trust your authentic self yeah what do

38:05 you think happens to your Evolution the first thing I thought is it feels like being on drugs in a good way yeah yeah yeah yeah I know yeah um it is it's almost like the um you know like the race horses with the with the

38:35 blinders yes just kind of like you just you could move them five degrees wider and completely change the aperture of of site that's what it feels like that's what it feels like it feels it feels really exciting awesome thanks for a great session that was really fun can I ask one question yeah of course yeah yeah I'm scared that

39:08 see here it comes I feel like when I you know where I'm like deeply present and following your smooth radio voice and uh it's like I'm going to get you know I'm going to go and get back on like log into whatever I log into and then you know this will be really Salient you know for a couple days and then it will

39:38 start to fade a bit and then in two weeks three weeks will be a distant memory do you know any score do you know any scorecard that doesn't work that way es and flows of the market you forget it you obsess over it for a while H is there how does one I mean the F the thing that came to mind is how did you do it with money is a

40:09 mantra which would be you know how did you do it with money how did you remind yourself religiously to make money just by breathing right yeah I mean it's it's what do you

40:39 think would have happened if you would have asked me how do I remember how do I keep on remembering that I need to make money on Wall Street like how do you what do you think how successful would you have been yeah it's just the it's the it's the water you swim in right the oxygen you breathe yeah tell me the imprint of money is like 44 years and the imprint of trust is one one hour let's see if that's

41:10 let's see if that's true so we have this metric that we just found out which is like trust po points on the board are how well am I how am I trusting myself that's how we score it how long now that we have that scorecard can you look back and tell me how long you've been playing that game yeah if I asked your wife how long has Kay been working on trusting himself what would her answer

41:41 be something like he's he always has yeah or like she might even be more extreme it's like you know it's just a part of who he is yeah it was funny how I qualified that right it's like she might yeah right so we're just looking we're just looking at an orientation to a to a movement that you have in you [Music] naturally beautiful and and that's part

42:12 of the thing is that that fear distracts you from trusting yourself like in this moment there was like putting points on the board of trusting yourself is like oh I trust that I will will be focused on this I I trust that this landed I trust that and then this is you know this is the and of course it's going to e and flow and of course you're going to go through moments of non-trust and trust but you crush every game that you

42:44 have played so and you've been playing this game for a while now we just learned a new move and a and a cool met [Music] trick thank you what a pleasure you're welcome pleasure awesome [Music]

43:19 [Music] man