Deep Dive: Gentle Parenting, Race, and Cycle Breaking With Kobe and Kyle Campbell

0:00 why is it so hard to find reliable answers to parenting questions how is it in 2022 parents still search on google for answers from strangers well now there's a better way introducing the good inside membership an expert guided community-powered platform redefining modern parenting in our library you'll find hundreds of bite-sized videos articles scripts and workshops tackling the trickiest parenting topics and it doesn't stop

0:33 here we've created a private community guided by me dr becky and coaches trained in the good inside parenting method here you can ask questions connect with other parents or attend a live event on a topic that matters to you this is the parenting handbook that doesn't exist this is parenting advice at your fingertips where you need it when you need it the most this is good inside membership hi i'm dr becky and this is good inside

1:07 i'm a clinical psychologist and mom of three on a mission to rethink the way we raise our children i love translating deep thoughts about parenting into practical actionable strategies that you can use in your home right away one of my core beliefs is that we are all doing the best we can with the resources we have available to us in that moment so even as we struggle and even as we are having a hard time on

1:38 the outside we remain good inside [Music] today i speak with a couple that i've gotten to know over the past few months kobe campbell reached out to me very early in my instagram journey she was an active commenter on posts a sharer in her stories and she was very present in my dms i was immediately drawn to her and then she introduced me to her husband kyle

2:10 who i felt drawn to as well kobe and kyle started raising some really important questions how can they raise a child who feels truly good inside who has the space to get to know himself who receives connection when struggling not punishment when they were both raised with uh your feelings don't matter just stay in line approach do we live in a world where the approach i put out there is as safe for their

2:42 black children as it is for my own white children how can they respond to criticisms from their families of origin about their new gentle parenting approach comments like this approach is going to get your child killed well let me tell you in this episode we ask more questions than we find answers that's usually how things go with important nuanced topics i can't wait for you to get to know kobe and kyle and let me say right away thank

3:14 you kobe and kyle for allowing so many people to start to get to know you so with that in mind let's jump in kobe and kyle so so excited to be talking with you for you both to be here why don't we start out just tell me a little bit about each of you about the two of you together about your family and then from there we can jump into what's on your mind for our discussion

3:44 today yeah um i'll go first i'm kobe i am a licensed trauma therapist mother of two have a super energetic deeply feeling three-year-old and then a really docile six month old who is just the chillest baby ever honestly um kyle and i really started to embrace um positive respectful present parenting just because um of the

4:15 work i do i feel like i'm just in a really peculiar situation where i get to see the end of um you know lots of repetitive actions that happen in childhood and then my own childhood trauma which has had me in therapy for about eight years and then kyle started going to therapy and we were like huh there's a lot of stuff that's at year 28 29 that happened at year three and five you know yeah and so we could cut that

4:42 off at the pass yeah yeah yeah so um we are really passionate about figuring out how to treat our child like he is a human being made in the image of god now and not wait till he gets older to start treating him with some dignity and tenderness yeah and i'm kyle um i belong to her also um the the father of an incredibly rambunctious three-year-old and a little just he's probably sleeping right now our six month old

5:12 um so i i don't know if that's poetic justice or what but we're really really grateful for that i'm not a licensed trauma therapist at all i am the cfo of a church and have my own consulting company for mergers and acquisitions so i'm just a finance number guy yeah a numbers dude yeah and tell me a little bit more of this journey to respectful parenting you mentioned that right away and that seems to be such a kind of goal post such a focus

5:44 but tell me more about that and about how your upbringings even influenced kind of coming to those beliefs about how important it is to treat a child early on with you said respect and dignity and a gentleness yeah i feel like in my work i like came to find personally through my clinical work that trauma is pre-verbal and that i like recalled and and remembered feelings that people had

6:15 towards me that i didn't really have any reference for like the words that they ever said like it was never like anyone said like you're like you're like a terrible human or you're a nuisance or you're so annoying or stop bothering me but i remember like feeling as i got older i got the words for those and i was like oh that person was embarrassed of me oh they were annoyed by me um and as i started to do my own work i

6:38 started realizing so much of what um i would have before my clinical work said kids don't remember i remembered in my body you know i remember the sensation i can remember in middle school sweating through my clothes and like i would name that now as anxiety but i just thought i was weird you know just like oh well i'm just sweating a lot my hands are always really wet i always sweat through my clothes it's just a thing that happens

7:07 um and i i remember the looks adults would make between each other when i would do something wrong or do something bad i would remember some of those things and found that like those seeds were bearing fruit in my relationship with kyle in my relationship with my sons in my relationship with myself and the deeper you get into to therapy at least for me the more i was like oh like i wasn't treated like i was a full

7:37 person when i was a child and just to piggyback on that for a second you're saying pre-verbal is right it's kind of the years before three yeah right i don't know about and so you're speaking to the influence that parenting and our kind of family environment have on us in our earliest years the years that it's so easy to say and i think we all hear this phrase our kids won't remember that anyway they don't remember those years

8:08 they're so resilient right exactly so the years and this is something i think a lot about too that the years we don't remember with our words have some of the biggest influences on us for the rest of our lives and you pointed to that by saying our bodies remember yeah our bodies remember these patterns the set of expectations we have of others our beliefs about our self what's allowed what's not allowed what's good

8:38 what's bad what brings people closer what pushes people away that kind of looking at that arc is one of the things that led you to feel so passionately about parenting your own child in a specific way yeah and i remember being a deeply feeling child saying things like that makes me sad or that makes me angry and the responses were like what do you have to be sad about you don't pay a bill you know and but i remember like

9:08 truly experiencing sadness like you were nothing you did or felt was valid until you were an adult and so it like it just was a very i think lonely experience that as a child that i'm now finding language for um and a lot of that it's kind of like recapitulated itself into my mid late 20s and i'm realizing like oh how how i was treated as a child truly is a foundation for how i see myself

9:38 the world god all of it and and kyle hop into some of these themes what's connecting for you about this or what's different from for my own part i um i was raised in a really i'm i'm the son of two marines so my mom is marine my dad was marine um and they're both black and so there's there's two cultures that really value a certain amount of authority and obedience coming together at the same point and a

10:08 way in which like the world really affirmed like i can remember like school assemblies our principals would like call out what great parents my parents were because they they produced such obedient children um and it wasn't until covey and i got together that i was even able to reconcile that okay well i always thought i had the greatest upbringing in the world with the greatest parents in the world and i still believe that my parents are better

10:36 than everyone else's so if you're listening it's not your fault um my mom's better than your mom it's it's you know it just is what it is that's great and yet in all of that my parents have four kids and i can say this because each of our stories are public in some way um and maybe just a minor trigger warning here but each of us has dealt with suicide and suicidal ideation every single one of us

11:05 and with with a level of like commercial success we've all been very successful we are like the poster children of what it looks like to raise good kids that do well that go to the right school they get the right job and all of that stuff and each of us deteriorating internally and so the question came up while qualcomm and i were actually arguing about this whole present positive parenting which i thought was very resistant very resistant she dragged me

11:35 kicking and screaming chloroformed me i think at least twice and then somehow i wake up and i find myself sitting here um because she she just she said and it hit me right in the gut she said kyle why in the world would you think you doing the things that your parents did would produce anything different than what you got and i'd never really considered i always thought it was a me thing now

12:06 obviously there's levels to it and there's nuance but i've never considered like no my parents were amazing parents especially within our cultural framework they were like the gold standard and yeah four for four like there's something missing something significant because apparently you can have all the other things that people want out of their children and be missing something incredibly important which is this sense of self-worth and value intrinsic beyond what you do or don't do which i didn't have until far too late

12:39 in life tell me about the word obedience just like what what that word you say obedience right what what comes up for you where is that in the value system what does that mean what does that look like just what what memories what images tell me more about that i'm african my parents are the name immigrants and kyle's african-american um and so i kind of ascribed to both african culture and african-american culture and i think for both cultures

13:06 and for black people in the diaspora obedience is the highest form of value a person can have like you are most valuable most good most um desired if you're obedient right and and we see that not just um internal to the culture but like within how other cultures see black people right if a black person is arrested or or argue why did you resist

13:37 why did you argue right why didn't you just do what the officer said right and so how that has like that value has infiltrated our homes is as a way of keeping our kids safe as a way of of survival we have really adapted a model of obedience as the highest value to hold on to for the sake of survival because if you don't obey there's a a lifelong consequence not just for you but for the people you're

14:08 connected to and so i think from a really young age it's not about um connectedness to be honest it's not about connectedness it's not about autonomy it's not about knowing your inner voice it's about keeping your kid alive like even i remember growing up and i didn't realize it was like odd until i got to college but it was a huge thing if like a black child made it to the age of 18 and like didn't die

14:33 at the hands of like whatever violence right and the idea is like we want to keep our kids alive so we we face everything we do on obedience everything needs to be through the lens of obedience our faith through the lens of obedience connection to each other through the lens of obedience child rearing through the lens of obedience um which i understand because it's adaptive right it's adaptive i think that kyle and i have gotten to see

15:01 the maladaptive traits that come from it right which is surviving long enough to not know who you are yeah that one it's uh prevalent and and to put even more color around that right like so she's african american i'm african-american um and yet and the cultures are similar uh but they have some key differences but still there is this unifying theme because i can remember being i think it was seven or eight years old when this

15:31 started but my dad would wake me and my brother up in the winter at like three or four in the morning and would wake us up and tell us to wash his car unprompted like no warning or anything and we were frustrated but the whole point of it was he wanted us and he told us this this wasn't like we had to intuit it he said hey i i need you to get used to not showing when something makes you

16:00 upset because one day someone in authority over you is going to tell you to do something that you don't feel like you should have to do and it could kill you if you if you show too much aggression right and so he was like he was trying to love us the best way that he knew how and to make us safe and so he was literally training us to be obedient irregardless of how convenient and convenient or how right or wrong it was

16:29 and to show no emotion because it was it would be dangerous to do that and it was nine or ten when that started and it stopped after a while when he felt like we really had the lesson that he could wake us up at 3am you could be mad and tired and you would know that there are certain things you just can't say or let yourself express and so this theme of like maximizing for survival maximizing for safety

16:58 that as long as my child can get far away from their feelings from their anger from their wishes from their wants for themselves which my guess for you kyle is i would rather be sleeping than go wash your car but as long as i've developed a system to shut that off or suppress that or actually shame it and blame it and scare myself of that part of me

17:30 almost kill that part of me off then i've achieved this ultimate goal i am the obedient child who will survive not necessarily thrive but survive and that that's the goal yeah and i i think even beyond that it's i think from a very young age we were taught um and if you don't you might die um [Music] you know like i think that like

18:00 death star i'm getting teary the idea of death and like dire consequences are um introduced at a really young age and so i remember just feeling like terror in my body like you don't do anything like you might die something might happen to mommy and daddy something might happen to this person and you know it made me think levi deeply feeling child extremely extremely autonomous knows exactly what he wants

18:31 it actually it makes me very proud but it also terrifies the living daylight time so i was washing his face in the morning because he had a little crusties in his eyes and i say to him hey leave i need you to close your eyes so i can get the crusty out he said no mommy don't touch me i don't want you to get krusty's out and i'm like okay i still need to get them out so

18:53 like just let mommy get a second and he looked at me square in the face and said no mommy don't touch me i don't want you to touch me and as soon as he said that it was like immediately i just saw my little preteen kid saying that to a police officer and that be his last words no don't touch me how do i teach um my little black boy

19:23 boundaries and autonomy and agency when if he exercises that out in the world it puts his life at risk it is hard and the application i think absolutely has to be different for little black and brown little boys and girls but i think you dispelled out something so powerful that when your son says to you no don't touch me there's such a conflictual response right there's a a gentle parenting perspective in a vacuum

19:54 right or a dr becky perspective in a vacuum be like that's amazing your child knows what feels right and can say no and yes it's an inconvenience but wow what a what a moment to elevate and that's a sign of my amazing parenting right there's like one voice yeah and there's another part of you that might be different let's say from me and my deeply feeling child who's a white

20:25 tiny girl where i'm not that worried about her asserting her body boundaries as she gets older and i can't wait for the time she says to someone i don't know if i'm thinking of a police officer maybe i'm thinking of you know someone else saying no don't touch me i don't like that right that feels like a moment in her teenagehood where you're thinking you're fast forwarding and you're thinking holy [ __ ] yeah i just and and just

20:54 like you said death and threat comes in so early yeah you're having it enter early in your three-year-old's life by when he says no don't touch my eyes you're picturing him getting murdered by a police officer yeah and figuring out what does my child need what actually does my child need in this moment to prepare him for life is it the exact same as what becky's daughter would need and if not what do we do in that gap

21:25 is is really confusing really overwhelming really terrifying and really cycle-breaking to even think about pivoting an approach yeah and and even as we so we've been in this journey for how long has it been babe about a year yeah i started following aka stalking dr becky during quarantine i love your stocking yeah cause we were trapped with levi and like this tiny two-bedroom apartment

21:57 and i was pregnant nauseous as i'll get out kyle's working levi is bouncing off the freaking walls and i'm like parenting she she did stalk you it was problematic in the beginning but we've turned the corner and um but as we started um applying some of these principles and and really just like light ways um we got a lot of pushback from like my family and and then we talk about that like you

22:27 talk about it rather um the conversations you have to have with family members as you're doing this and it's a hard conversation for everybody but i think for us it was telling that the first thing my twin brother said to me was like bro like you're gonna get your your kid killed yeah like you told him to stop and he didn't stop yeah i think that conversation is probably not necessarily the conversation that is happening for other folks as they

22:58 interact with their family members over positive parenting because it's not like my brother is some angry man he's very sweet loves his nephew and it's just like i don't feel comfortable with it you know like as if it's like this almost evil taboo thing we're doing like when we're not necessarily being as hard-nosed disciplined and in the way that they're used to the in the way that we're used to you know waking people up at 3am can you walk through an

23:29 example just to make it specific and real vivid where may we'll make it up your whole family's around or the extended family and levi does something whatever it is and then walk through the kind of these different ways of parenting in that moment probably with different goals in mind what's really common is levi don't do that levi don't pick that up levi don't blank right um he may do it two or three times and then i'll go over to him and

23:58 say hey it seems like you're having a hard time controlling your body let's go calm down or you have a lot of energy let's do a little shake shake shake shake let's wiggle wiggle wiggle wiggle let's go outside and run and the the stairs are like are you so you're rewarding your child for not listening to you and and it's almost like you know i don't know if you've heard of this but it's very common in the black culture like

24:26 i'm not watching your child unless i can whoop them and we're like well i guess no one's watching our child because that's the boundary that we've set and i think that when people see the parenting um they they think it's uh permissive just let the kid do whatever they feel whatever they want but i think for us because we're noticing like okay first of all we've all been cooked up in this room for the last three hours i'm

24:51 getting restless there's no other toys here there's no other kids here he needs to burn energy of course he's going to destroy something you know there's glass he's of course he's gonna kick it over um and that's what i'm thinking but what is on the other side when other people are perceiving it is you just told your kid to stop and he didn't stop now he must be punished for that like it's very punitive in nature and i think that the

25:15 reason why it's punitive in nature culturally the way people see things is because it's almost like they're trying to get people honestly trying to get black kids ready for a punitive system when they leave the house we're kind of talking about this moment where levi doesn't listen and then there's this fork do i respond with punishment you have to listen or do i respond with kind of a boundary and maybe a redirection or a stepping in

25:44 on my child's behalf but before that there's also this fork in the road around assumption of intention negative intention right or positive right so am i assuming that my kid is purposely not listening trying to pull one over me doesn't respect me a ton of kind of negative assumptions or am i assuming my kid is missing some skill overwhelmed with something else

26:14 and doesn't hear me struggles to switch from one task to another struggles to inhibit an urge right so tell me about that yeah so it's funny because one of our like cultural things in me and kyle's home is api assuming positive intent um but we struggle with that it's a tenant we struggle to embody and i think that um also because of generational trauma it's hard for people to see um

26:45 there's no there's no um degree it's either you fully understand or you don't understand right and i think that oftentimes the idea is if the kid can understand the words that you're using then they can understand the responsibility behind responding to it and that's just not true right interesting there's a real staying up here in the brain like in cognition my kid knows what the word stop means as an example my kid knows what stop

27:16 means yeah right it makes me think about you know all the times i'm like i know what i need to do to exercise but like you know seems not to be working in my favor right but there's a real you're saying there's a real focus on my kid understands the word cognitively so there should be a direct line into the corresponding behavior is that right yeah and i think that that can like be perfectly summed up in

27:48 adultification that like when black kids are seen as human they're not seen as children they're seen as adults right like even thinking about tamira rice how old was he 12 12. he was 12. i thought he was 18. they thought he was 18. right there was a study done um on the perception of police officers on children and they um systematically viewed black kids at least four years older than they actually were and saw white kids at an average of two years

28:18 younger than what they actually were and we've seen that be a reality in our lives that people will be like oh how old is he like three and we're like he's not even two and there's this like i think sometimes parents get this weird like oh my kid's so smart like they like look how advanced they are and like i have honestly had the opposite he's like i want my kid to be right on par not

28:41 behind not not in front because i don't want anyone else to think that they're older than what they actually are and i think that as much as i believe in the way that we're doing this pro this parenting reality is i've still internalized and absorbed some of those beliefs because my automatic thinking is you knew not to do that levi i told you twice and you knew exactly what i said there's something i keep thinking about like giving the

29:08 benefit of the doubt like kids get the benefit the doubt but not you right because when you're as soon as you look older than 10 you're not going to and so i'm preparing you for that yeah and then what happens inside your own home inside your own home is you don't get the benefit of the doubt yeah to prepare you for the world and so one of the things you learn around that when these various struggles you have

29:38 are kind of assumed with negative intent is this kind of reflected back version of you of being bad of being nasty of knowing better and just purposefully doing otherwise of kind of not being a good person inside yeah it's like the first recording of their internal voice of shame you know in your um i think it was your managing meltdowns um course like you were saying like what we reflect to our kids is what they embody

30:10 right and so like at such a young age embodying to our kids rather reflecting to them like you know better you should you should have done better how did you not know right and and thinking that that's like creating these guard rails but like it's really creating this internal like prison of shame where they don't get to be human and i think one of the one of the most transformative things that you've said to us as we've kind of been conversing

30:39 with you was we were like well if we implement this stuff out there and like out there is scary so why would we you know why would we be soft with him here and you said something to the effect of um if he's not going to be safe out there like why would you not create a safe place at your home and kyle and i were like that is a really good point and i think that that safety

31:06 starts with what we reflect of our children yeah so let's let's like play this out really concretely because right i'm i think so much about kids and development and what we need and yet also everything i say is influenced by my experience and i'm a white woman who grew up with white parents i have a white partner my kids are white and that obviously influences things i say and so i think i'm going to put out some

31:38 ideas that i just kind of you know are general principles and i want you to tear some of them down okay that's that's the goal um or to poke holes in them right so general idea our kids respond and our kids build up the parts of themselves that we reflect back so when we reflect back a version of a child who isn't listening because they know better and just purposefully don't listen and

32:08 then we punish them accordingly our kids building up the virgin themselves that's that's bad i'm bad inside i'm dangerous i'm disrespectful on the other side of things the idea that i'm gonna pause the punishment to instead say something like something about listening is really hard right now i'm gonna help you i'm gonna put that truck away since it's hard to stop throwing it and it seems like you have all this energy in your hands let's go get some softballs and throw throw

32:33 throw what i'm doing is i'm reflecting back to my child you have some urge to do something that's normal i'm gonna stop you from being dangerous and instead redirect that and i'm gonna preserve for you the idea that you're a good kid you just were having a hard time now this is something i know is not new for you that's like this different so tell me your reaction to that tell me okay becky but here's the difference

32:58 okay but i'm out with my kid at a grocery store and my kid does this and here's her to be different talk to me about when you hear that where where do you feel like there there needs to be something a little different or there needs to be an understanding of the world levi's entering into that's very different from the world my kids will immediately experience um yeah so um i i hear something like that and i think

33:27 the fear that rises up is something to the effective if you don't punish bad behavior you're just going to get bad behavior and like to to act like that isn't reality is to operate like with your eyes closed and it's not my my dad would literally say it's not fair to your kids to treat them like they're just gonna do the right thing because

33:57 you were nice to them and my dad would say all the time even as he's like tried to coach us in parenting early on we don't necessarily receive it as much anymore he's been gracious about that but he would say all the time like well no like your your kid is selfish he's a kid he's gonna be he he's trying to wedge in between you like you guys have that have to have a united front he's trying to manipulate

34:24 you like that's what they do and that may all be true intellectually to some extent but the posture of of those words really does convey this active negative intent and this idea that well it's not even his fault he's a kid that's who he is you've got it so that's you gotta help him not be a kid but but it's it's the idea of like no you can't not punish something and then just expect it to be okay the right there's a reason

34:54 the rest of the world works the way it does you do something wrong you get punished well it also makes me think about this kind of decision point around the the feelings and urges that we have that end up manifesting as quote disobedient behavior or a moment where we're struggling is the answer to try to shut off kill off the origin of that behavior you punish it away or is there something about the experiencing

35:26 of it that helps our kids learn to manage it are we trying to help our kids manage the urge not to listen or are we trying to kill the urge not to listen they're very different goals yeah yeah i i would love to say that we're trying to help him manage and i would say about 60 of the time we are trying to help him manage but there was like a framework that i started kind of journaling about

35:51 it was again from your managing meltdowns you can tell what we're dealing with at home um of course you talked about how dysregulation leads to co-regulation which hopefully leads to self-regulation except for my kid is co-regulating with my dysregulation because not only am i witnessing his being triggered i you know like i mentioned before and having this flashback of you cannot do this in these places you cannot say these things you cannot act this way you

36:20 cannot put your finger up and say pew pew no more power rangers no more anything marvel you know and and for me i'm realizing like i had to stop at that module because i was like i i don't think i don't think i the co-regulation demands something of me and i i have to like figure that out internally because if i'm being honest i think that the desire is to redirect but the urge in the moment is to kill

36:52 like kill that kill that thing that makes you want to run around the circles for three hours kill that thing that makes you want to reach out and and touch strangers bags in the store you know there's a and it's it it is hard to manage but like that that dysregulation mommy's dysregulation to co-regulation of dysregulation to more dysregulation and then there's a real risk that the two of you have to look at each other every night

37:21 and say we're taking that risk there's a real risk of we are trying to raise our kids in a way where they get to know and at some point feel more at home with a wider variety of the their parts of who they are of their feeling i'm allowed to feel this hopefully over time i learn to regulate that feeling i'm allowed to want this over time i am

37:53 betting on the fact that he's going to figure out where it's okay to say no don't touch my body and where if he's ever in the situation he he stays quiet right but where we're taking on that risk of not shutting it all down yeah and that that is a risk as you parent your kids that you have to take on that someone like me doesn't really feel i don't really feel that risk with my kids

38:22 yeah and that's that's a huge that's a huge difference huge and you're taking that risk while having family members who sound like in all their own ways really love you and love your kids yeah tell you you're endangering your children yeah and you're saying let's reverse that or take the risk of i want levi to feel like a good kid inside that doesn't mean

38:53 hoping when he's 18 he has tantrums like now and i'll just be saying as a mom ugh look at my free child like that doesn't feel good that doesn't feel good to an 18 year old right like no one wants to be dysregulated yeah but what i think what's key is it's taking the risk of tolerating this really messy period yeah in the hopes that you have a kid who feels good inside and has learned

39:24 how to manage so many different feelings and urges but with the core belief that those feelings and urges are okay to exist inside i don't have to kill them off or reject them and my core story is no matter what i'm feeling i'm good nothing inside me is toxic nothing inside me is poisonous nothing inside me is bad and the i think one of the huge paradoxes is the wider range of feelings we help our kids with when they're younger the less

39:56 likely over time and that's a huge asterisk over time when does the time switch i don't know but the less likely over time those feelings all convert into dysregulated behaviors because the feelings we don't allow inside of us right our feelings are forces i always think about them they're forces and if you can't allow and manage a feeling inside it has no choice but to catapult out of you in some totally disregulated behavior

40:27 when you're older and yet having said all of this the two of you are are doing something so so massive yeah it is and it's i feel like it is heavy and it's hard and i think i've said that a billion times but the fruit is so sweet and unexpected he had a soccer game last saturday and we're noticing that he loves to play with people but he doesn't necessarily like to be watched by people so here's

40:58 this line of adults sitting in their pull-out chairs just staring and he is nervous and you know most of the parents and this is no no shade or shame to them most of the parents like just left their crying kids right and they're like just go and they're kids crying in the middle of the field and they said you know what levi i'm not gonna leave you until you're ready for me and i stood there and i held his hand

41:22 the entire game she played more soccer than all of those chokers i should have worn my my apple watcher caught the closed ring but i i stayed there the entire time and and there was a part of me this really small part of me that was almost embarrassed why can't you get it together but then there was like this really big overwhelming part that was like how cool that i get to experience this for my kid that like when i wanted

41:49 something so ridiculous huge finger quotations as like my parents holding my hands through a soccer game like the times i just longed for someone to hold my hand in times that other people said doesn't make sense and i got down and looked in the face and said lebron how are you feeling and she didn't say anything but he did this and it was like one of those moments where i was like and that's why we can't stop

42:22 i love you guys you know that i really do love you doctor thank you for the family yeah we love dr becky t-shirt i'm gonna show up in your front yard i loved talking with kobe and kyle they have truly taught me so much but maybe more importantly they've helped me ask more questions and consider new perspectives i feel the need today to not tie things together with any clear

42:53 takeaways instead i just want to let this conversation sit with me and hopefully with all of you as we consider the different realities we all face the ways our past lives on in our present the ways we are cycle breaking and the bravery of each and every person in this community to reflect consider new ideas and be vulnerable about our parenting and self-discovery journeys

43:24 thanks for listening to good inside let's stay connected at goodinside.com you can sign up for workshops and subscribe to good insider my weekly email with scripts and strategies delivered right to your inbox and for more ideas and tips check out my instagram dr becky at good inside good inside is produced by beth rowe and brad gage an executive produced by erica belski and me dr becky if you enjoyed this episode please take

43:56 a moment to rate and review and if you really like the episode please share it with someone you know many of you tell me that sharing an episode has allowed you to start conversations about tricky topics with spouses or extended family members and to bond and connect with fellow cycle breakers i actually do read each and every review so please know that your feedback is meaningful to me let's end by placing our hands on our hearts

44:27 and reminding ourselves even as i struggle and even as i have a hard time on the outside i remain good inside

44:57 you