HL Radio #45 - David Schamis (Hyperliquid Strategies) - Live @ HL Singapore 2026

0:04 Nice. >> >> Hey there, Christian. >> I'm doing good. How are you doing? >> I am great. Nice to see you as always. >> Yeah, thanks so much for being back on Asia Radio. It's your third appearance on the show here. Always good to have you on. >> Yes, New York, Montreal, and now Singapore. >> Yeah, yeah, just all around the world, hey? >> >> Speaking of Montreal, when we last spoke back in August, I remember per had just started trading above NAV again. And in your interview, you were laying out your playbook where you're you're buying back shares when MNAV is low and issuing new shares when MNAV is high above like 1.1, and then you're accumulating more hype, right?

0:41 And since then, you've been buying a lot of hype. So, I'm curious, can you tell us how that playbook is working out in practice? >> Yeah, look, I would say that was a good week when I saw you. Good is a strong word. It was an interesting week because we started that week trading below MNAV, and we ended the week trading well above MNAV. And it wasn't a huge coincidence. It was because of Donald Trump's comments, I think, the day before I saw you.

1:07 that moved the needle a lot, obviously. so, I think the story is and the word we use a lot around the office is discipline. I think that it's really easy to make a plan and say, "Okay, you're going to issue when you're above MNAV high MNAV and you're going to buy back below low." But when you get when it actually happens in real life, you know, the fog of war could confuse you. And it it happened, tell you. It happens, and we work hard not to be confused by the fog of war, to be disciplined. When it trades up, we know it's not going to be there forever at high MNAV, so we issue and take advantage of that. And when it goes very low, we also know it won't be there forever, so we use our cash to buy back the buy back the stock and and create NAV in both directions.

1:52 But that was a good week. That was a that was a fun week. >> Yeah, a great week for everybody, I think. It was It was a good time. And obviously your your stock price is is showing, I think, that the the strategy is working. So, it's a kudos to you for for the discipline for executing on the strategy well. And something else that you said during your last interview or in previous interviews is comparing like DATS to ETFs. You've mentioned that DATS need to ultimately do more than an ETF to outperform just holding hype, right?

2:22 and and previously you haven't talked too much about how you specifically plan to achieve that. Wondering if there's anything you can tell us today about how you plan to maybe leverage the hyperliquid ecosystem or how you plan to create that additional value. >> Yeah, so it's interesting. Vis-a-vis ETFs, right? You know, there's a cost to running a DAT, but there's also a cost to running ETFs. And as we get bigger, we're actually able to amortize those costs over a larger larger revenue base and a larger asset base. So, I actually think over certainly over 2026, our sort of cost relative to our asset base has come down quite a bit. With an ETF, that doesn't really happen, right? With an ETF, you're paying a certain percentage, and, you know, whether they're whether they hold 500 million of hype or 5 billion of hype, that percentage generally stays the same. But, you're right, vis-a-vis us and vis-a-vis our ability to trade at a premium long term, I agree with you. I agree with Well, I agree with you repeating what I said.

3:23 We we have to we have to do more than just sit here and hold hype and tell everybody how great we are. And we we've been working on that. We've been working on it carefully and thoughtfully. I think from my point of view, A, doing stupid things that we lose money, that is a bad idea. Doing small things that are immaterial that take a lot of time and energy, that's not so great either. We're more focused on doing big things that move the needle, that will get everyone's attention, that are worthwhile doing. So look, the small thing we've done is that we've become a validator on the plat on the ecosystem. That's nice. That's not going to move the needle any major way. We are looking at a handful of things. Some some smaller where we think is pretty straightforward way to pick up, you know, shackles off the floor. But we're with we're looking hard at some big things also that I'm not ready to announce, but you know, there are probably some obvious areas that people think we can we can add value.

4:18 >> Yeah, and I I know I am looking forward to seeing what you guys ultimately end up doing. I'm following really closely, so I can't wait to hear. Want to zoom out a little bit and talk about some of the developments that have happened in the Hyperliquid ecosystem recently. Maybe even since we last spoke just a couple months ago. Is there any developments you think that have really stood out to you or which ones have mattered most to your investment thesis and why?

4:43 >> Well, without a doubt, by far the most interesting thing going on right now is Hyperliquid coming to the US. And how exactly that happens, when it happens, who are the players, who's taking Like I think those are still a pretty open set of questions. Obviously, so there's clearly something going on there. but I don't think that's going to be the beginning and the end of Hyperliquid in the United States.

5:15 I don't know exactly what it's going to look like, but I don't think it's going to be a simple, you know, crypto-only perp exchange on one on with with one partner. I think there'll be more to it than that. I think that's not going to play out over the next couple weeks. It's going to play out over months, you know, many months. You know, probably you know, my guess is a year from now when we're all sitting here talking about it, it'll be in the rearview mirror, but maybe just in the rearview mirror. You know what I mean? So this is going to play out over the next year or so and you know, it has to do with financial deals between between part commercial deals between partners. It has to do with regulators and and the regulatory environment. So, a lot of things have to come together, but that clearly is the most exciting thing that we're looking at over the next 12 months.

6:01 >> Yeah, totally agree. I think that Hyperliquid in the US is like on top of everybody's mind, of course, and obviously you're you know, well positioned for how how that's ultimately going to play out. something I loved talking to you, David, is you always have really good stories and anecdotes and and the way you tell them is just so entertaining. Curious if you can tell us maybe if you've had a a conversation with someone recently maybe in traditional finance or otherwise and where you've seen their view of Hyperliquid change based on your conversation. And what what is it that typically changes their mind?

6:36 >> Well, that probably happened four times to me today. I'm not joking. we spend a lot of time with TradFi institutional investors. Some people think we spend too much time with them, but we spend a lot of time with them and it's really an education of what Hyperliquid is and why they should be interested. And the problem problem for me and my voice is you can't tell that story in 5 minutes. Doesn't matter who you're talking to, they they cannot digest that. They can't go from zero to 60 in 5 minutes on that topic. You got to sit and go through it. The guys on my team that I work with all laugh at me cuz they wind me up and they hear me tell the story and it's a 45-minute monologue.

7:21 But over that discussion, you could see the sort of light in people's eyes when they wake up and they realize this isn't just some crypto DJ thing that they never heard of and don't want to hear of, that there's a more to it than that from the beginning, right? There's there's the base of this thing, it's built on on a very solid foundation, but two, when they realize the TAM, right, the total addressable market of this thing is not just, you know, going after crypto trading in the US and maybe we'll take some market share away from Coinbase, that the total addressable market is just monstrous, right? It's it's equities, it's rates, it's prediction markets. I mean, those are those are mega trillion-dollar markets we're talking about here and even small percentage of those things add up to real money. But I mean, I literally I mean, I had four of those conversations today. I think I had three of them on Friday in Hong Kong. You know, it's it's constant and you got to keep doing them and you know, Rome is not built in a day.

8:26 >> Well, I think we all appreciate everything you do to expose the good word of Hyperliquid and I could listen to you talk about it all day to be honest. All right, last question cuz we're running out of time here. Looking ahead, what do you think is it going to take for Hyperliquid to ultimately graduate from where it is today, which is kind of this fringe cutting-edge financial infrastructure to becoming this core underpinning of the of the global financial system? Like what needs to happen for Hyperliquid to truly house all of finance?

8:53 >> Yeah, I I hate to to look like the ugly American and so to seem US-centric, but at the moment, at least I think the answer that question is sort of a regulatory structure that works in the US, partners in the US cuz I don't think Hyperliquid itself is going to be a DCO and DCM and FCM in the US anytime soon. I don't get the impression that Trade XYZ wants to do that either. So, incumbent partners that, you know, most people outside this room have heard of, becoming engaged, becoming partners with the whole thing, and then the ability for both US and non-US institutions to onboard in that environment where it's just a very different onboarding experience than you know a decentralized wallet. I think that has to happen.

9:44 That changes everything. And I do think that's not the next 12 weeks, but probably over the next 12 months. I do think I'll say it again. I'll make the prediction right now. A year ago when was a year from now when we're sitting here, we'll be talking about all this stuff as it already happened. It might still be growing. There might there'll be other exciting stuff going on, but that stuff will have happened. That's my call. I could be wrong. I hope not.

10:06 >> I think you're right. Well, I'm looking forward to having that chat with you once we're in that position and I'm excited to have you on HL Radio next time. As always, thanks so much, David. >> Thanks for having me again. Next time, another country. >> Sounds good.