Are We Damaging Our Kids by Fighting?

0:03 Welcome everyone to Hi Fam with Avital. I am thrilled to be going live and answering juicy questions that have been coming in from y'all. So, thank you for sending them in. And today we're going to be talking about undermining each other in front of our children. What is our role when the two of us as partners maybe disagree on certain parenting aspects? So, we're going to get into that. Before we do, I want to let you know that my course, Marriedu, Marriage University, is open as I speak if you're watching this live or as it drops. Go over to married-youu.com. Check it out.

0:37 And I really warmly, warmly invite you to join. Marriedu opens only once a year. And during the time that it is open, you will be joining a cohort of like-minded women who don't want to settle for less, who want the love and the passion and the chemistry and the mutual respect and the friendship and great, you know, cohesive parenting together, but also uh are willing to work for it, are willing to make changes, are willing to show up and want to be encouraged that marriage is worth it. that there is such a thing as longevity in marriage, as a lifelong relationship that actually nurtures you.

1:11 And you know, I want you to leapfrog over my decade of trial and error, my costly mistakes, and just learn the bottom line. How to make a marriage work. You'll get the skills that you need. So, make sure that you head on over to there. And meanwhile, say hello in the comments because today we're going to be answering a really juicy and very common question that came in and uh this is what she writes. how to not undermine the other parent or partner in front of the children. For example, if my husband wants to be disciplining them and I disagreed with how he's handling the situation or if he's trying to be a leader to the kids and I'm correcting him or what if we're in a discussion on how we're going to handle the situation regarding our kids and we are debating stubbornly. Is this okay for the kids to witness or should a disagreement convo be discussed away from the kids? So, first of all, if you don't know who I am, hello. I'm Avital. I'm the mother of five. I've been married for almost 20 years this year. And my mission here on HIFAM is to help you to build a strong family culture. That means that you get to really live out the rituals and the routines that you love and believe in.

2:18 That you get to transmit your values onto your children and shape the next generation. That you get to feel beyond the love and the chaos that sometimes come with raising children. the meaning in the project of building a family that you feel that you are actually, you know, doing a service to your children, to the next generation, that, you know, you're spending yourself, your blood, sweat, and tears on something worthwhile, on something that is actually full of purpose. And if that sounds good for you, then make sure that you are subscribed and make sure that you hit the like button and make sure to leave me your question or comment below.

2:50 I really welcome resistance, push back, disagreement, agreement, as long as it's done respectfully. I think these are all really interesting debates and I would love to hear your perspective. So to answer this question, we're going to be talking about what is appropriate to do in front of our children and what is not appropriate to do in front of our children. And this is something that I actually have an entire module on inside the married you course because I can't just say it all here in you know the space of 10 minutes. But I will try to give you some pointers. And if this is the type of thing that kind of helps things click into place for you, you're like, "Oh yeah, that makes sense. That's helpful. this gives me the the guide rails that I need, the guardrails that I need to parent with my partner respectfully, then you're going to find so much more of that in married you. And that's where you're actually going to implement it because we have Zoom coaching together, because we have a group that is extremely supportive because we have the course itself, which you will own and you can revisit year over year over year. Okay. So the main takeaway that I want you to have for this, okay, of what is okay to do in front of the kids and what is not, if [snorts] I had to summarize it in just one sentence for you to remember, a mantra, okay? And this is what I like to do for you to make it really bingy, to make it really memorable. If I just had to give you one rule to follow, I would say back each other publicly, edit each other privately. You want to confront him. You want to disagree with him. You want to have a whole stubborn conversation about who's right about a parenting choice. You want to edit the way he's saying or contradict what he's saying or criticize what he's saying or give him feedback on his parenting style. Do that privately.

4:30 If you disagree in the moment, do your best not to correct him in front of the kids. only step in if it's a safety risk. If it's a a complete abomination of your values, okay? If it's something that you're like, "Oh, no. This cannot pass. I my kids can't see me just letting this pass. I must step in." Right? Like if he gets scarily angry, for example, okay? Or if he says things that are absolutely against, you know, your core held values in the family, then you might want to kind of tap him out. And this is a really important tool and skill that I use that I teach that me and my husband do for each other the whole time. That is when one of us is getting triggered and overwhelmed and we're going down a path we don't want to be going down like we're shaming a kid or we're yelling or we I give up. I do everything for this family or some kind of rant that we're on. If our prefrontal cortex isn't fully engaged and we're just, you know, blabbing at the mouth, we just tap each other out like, "Hey, I got this, babe. You go take a break."

5:28 Okay? So you can save him and he can save you cuz you're partners and you've got to help each other in the heat of the moment when conflicts arise and it gets difficult. But what you don't want to do is undermine him. What you don't want to do is be there being like no that's not how we're going to do it or that doesn't make any sense or those aren't the rules or well I disagree. Right? Those types of things are going to really create a a friger between you.

5:51 Is that a word? Friger. I think I just made that up. [laughter] But like a a chasm, right? A crack. a a friction that you don't need between you. That would not be wise. But worse than that is that it actually shows your children that uh you don't respect each other, that you don't respect his authority. So why should they? That the vibe in the household is to constantly question and negotiate and uh interrupt and undermine. And that's modeling, right?

6:20 That's what they learn to do. And they also learn that, you know, things aren't very stable in this household. Like mom has one opinion and one set of rules and dad has a completely different set of rules. Now you are two different people and that's allowed. You're allowed to disagree. But kids can see very respectful disagreements, right? Like oh darling, I thought that we maybe would do it like this. What do you think of that? Right? If it's a respectful disagreement, if you're respectfully coming in and being like, "Hey babe, do you remember we actually said you know that he could go to the sleepover?"

6:49 Because right like if you're doing it as a partner, if you're doing it in a way that they see there's friendship that there is uh some deference between you like uh whatever you know whatever dad says I do agree with or fundamentally we're on the same page. Um that that's okay. But what they can't see is you nitpicking you uh you know getting uh kind of sharp or uh rude with each other or sarcastic about each other or eye rolling or being like huh no you know like completely undermining being being uh kind of I guess cynical about each other's authority that would be really not great for them. Okay. So if there's a calm tone, if there's no sarcasm, right, if you end it with unity, like saying, you know what, me and dad will discuss this together and we'll get back to you, then they can see dis respectful disagreement. But what we don't want them seeing is power struggles. We don't want our children to watch us at each other's throats, undermining each other, going behind each other's backs. Believe me, when your kids are teenagers, this will come back to bite you in the butt because they won't. They'll ask your permission for something, and if you say no, they'll go to dad. And if he says yes, it's like, well, you guys aren't on the same team. You're not a unified front, so I'll play you off each other.

8:04 Right? A teenager will come and say, you're always so strict, but dad, let's or they'll come and try to worm their way in between you, and it creates a very unhealthy triangulation that you do not want to encourage more of. Okay? So, the main sentence that you need to say to your children about dad is whatever dad says, dad's got this. You know, me and dad are on the same page. Me and dad are a united front. I've said to my kids explicitly, and so has my husband, that we agree with each other, that we're on the same page, that we're a united front, that whatever dad says is the rule, and he'll say the same. Whatever mom says is the rule. If you already asked her, there's zero reason for you to come and ask me, right? Um, and that stability that they get from you two being a united front is worth a lot more than whatever specific parenting preference you had.

8:56 Okay, so let's drive this down to a real example. Okay, say I uh think the kid needs to sit and do homework right now and dad thinks the kid uh should say yes to a play date and play outside uh with a friend. Okay, we have a difference in opinion. Okay. My value here that I'm putting on a pedestal is academic success and his value is social and and outdoor movement. Great. So, we disagree. Yeah. And I'm saying, "No, you can't go out with your friends right now because it's time to do your homework."

9:27 And dad's saying, "No, let him go out. Come on. The kid needs to play ball. He's been sitting down all day. Just let him go out." Okay. So, the kids's getting mixed messages like two different values in conflict. Who whose authority is more important? Now, I might really dig my heels in, like you're saying, debate stubbornly and be like, "No, he needs to do his homework now, right?" And I might start undermining dad or being sarcastic like, "You know what? You're just encouraging him to be, you know, uh, mediocre or to fail at school or you don't even care because afterwards I'm the one who has to deal with the teachers or I have to deal with homework up until late at night, right? I could start making it into an argument. I could start pinging all these, you know, painful uh stories about my about my husband's childhood or about his relationship to academia or to the child or his responsibility or what a manchild he is that he always wants to go out and play. I could do all of that.

10:20 But the truth is that the delta between my parenting choice putting academic values on top and his parenting choice putting uh sports and social life on top is much smaller than the delta between uh mom and dad as a unified front and mom and dad as separate you know waring individuals. Okay. In other words, my kids gain more from the stability, consistency, unified front, team playing than they will from the academic uh values that I've just stood for. Okay?

10:54 Even if I really, really, really believe it and I really think it's what's best for them, what's more important for them, what's trumps that, what is even healthier, what is even more significant is to grow up with stability between their parents. Okay? So then behind closed doors, we can align on our standards. Okay? We can create a simple signal that when one of us needs a pause uh so that we can stay a team in front of them. We can say you know what let me and dad talk about this privately and then we'll get back to you. We can do all of those things. We can battle it out okay in a I would suggest warm flirtatious loving easygoing calm way but still behind closed doors. We can have those debates like what's more important going out to play ball or or staying home and doing homework? That's a good debate to have. What's not good is to have that in front of the kids and then the kid just learns, "Wow, they really don't know what they're what what page they're on. They're not aligned. I should just uh play them off of each other." Okay. It's also very scary for children to see parents constantly disagreement disagreeing. Okay. Small disagreements, I said, doing so respectfully, doing with a bit of humor, tapping each other out, all of that is fine. But what you don't want to do is start blowing up in front of each other.

12:05 All right. Brilliant. Okay, we're going to move on to the next question. But before we do, I would love you to let me know in the comments below, how did this answer land for you? Is this the type of coaching that's helpful for you? Does it clarify for you? What's yes, what's no, what's in, what's out, what's healthy, what's unhealthy, because that's the type of thing you will get inside of Married You. I'll put the URL up on the screen one more time so that you are sure to join because doors close really soon for a whole year. So, go to marriagesu.com and I would love to see you on the inside. All right, let's read the next question. And here it is from Tessa. She says, "Hubby and I have been having heated discussions about division of labor and mental labor, etc. And when I'm not feeling heard or understood, I start getting flustered and take talking with my hands and talking faster and interrupting and speaking in a higher voice, etc., becoming more shrill and apparently huffing and puffing and eventually leaving the room to calm down.

12:58 For me, I know this is biological and due to becoming more and more emotionally disregulated and ultimately fight or flight. My husband says it's aggressive, disrespectful, and stonewalling. I know that it's not, and I can't help it to a certain extent. How can I explain to my husband about the emotional buildup and why we talk to each other like this? Okay. So, I think a lot of us feel this way that we have a hard time remaining composed, remaining calm, talking in a respectful way when we're feeling agitated and triggered by what our partner is saying. Like, you're not hearing me. I need to say it louder.

13:32 I need to say it more shrillly. I need to say it more hysterically. I need to embellish it with a lot of uh tone and body language and hands and and even maybe screaming or raising MY VOICE OR JUST I'm getting really really annoyed, right? Because I feel that my emotions aren't landing. You're not validating. You're not hearing me. You're not really listening. You're just being defensive. You're just pushing back. You're just saying, "No, it didn't." Or, "It wasn't like that." Or you're catching me on my little words instead of getting the gist of what I'm trying to say, which is that I'm overwhelmed, that I'm frustrated, that I have too much mental load, that I don't like the division of labor in the household, etc. Right? So, I want to say you're not crazy. Okay? You are not crazy. We all get to those places when we're really frustrated, and we feel that our partner isn't hearing us. that is uh is a trigger for most people and will send us into a little bit more of a spiral. Okay, we'll get a little bit lack out of control. We'll express ourselves in ways that maybe we're not so um proud of, that maybe don't look so good on us, that maybe aren't calm enough, that aren't exactly how, you know, we would wish to in our finer moments and in our higher selves. Okay?

14:36 But you're also not purely at the mercy of biology. Okay? You're not, it's not true precisely, I think what you're saying that you can't help it. Okay? Because while it's hard to master our triggers and take control of our composure and communication, it actually is helpable. It actually is possible. It actually is something that we can do and do do. And that's what I teach inside of Maru. And I speak from experience here because I used to find it very, very difficult to stay composed when I was very triggered. And it's gotten better.

15:09 I'm not perfect at it. probably will never be, but it's gotten better. And what I've done and what I teach people to do is to raise the floor, okay? To raise the floor of rock bottom, to raise the floor of the lowest behavior we're willing to do. In other words, if I used to, you know, threaten divorce or slam doors or use curse words, I start to take those things off the table. I can't do them anymore. I've raised the bar.

15:34 I've raised the floor. I'm not allowed to go that low. I'm not going to stoop that low even when I'm really mad. So, we start to set ourselves these rule sets of even when I'm very triggered, there are some things I'm not going to do. Why? Not because I'm not allowed to. I'm an adult. It's a free country. I can do what I want. Not because I'm not entitled to. I'm super angry. My anger is justified. I'm allowed to express myself however I want, but because it's really ineffective. It doesn't serve my own purposes. It's actually a maladaptive um strategy. So, I actually learn that, well, first of all, I don't really like myself when I do that. I don't feel proud. It's not how I would want to be perceived. If someone was watching me with a secret spy camera, I'd be embarrassed that they see me like yelling like that or or getting all flustered or being so mean. Um, so I I you know, there is that kind of like moral, ethical, personal growth component to it that I don't want to do it anymore. But also because when I do those things, he shuts down further. You said he starts to feel flooded by that escalation. He starts to experience it as an attack. He starts to just counterattack like you're being crazy.

16:43 You're being hysterical. You're being shrill. I can't talk to you when you're like this, right? He says it's aggressive. He says it's disrespectful. He says it's stonewalling. He says you're not listening actively. So he also shuts down. And [clears throat] what happens then is of course we get into a vicious cycle, right? Like I'm not behaving my best. And then he it's not like he takes it and he's like, "Oh babe, I see you're having a really hard time. Come here. Let me give you a big hug. I want to listen to everything you have to say. He's not equipped to do that. He's not um you know, I don't know, some guru on a mountaintop who can just sit there and listen and take it.

17:15 No, he gets defensive. He gets counter triggered. He also gets frustrated. And then we're just spiraling. Then we're just spinning off each other. and we never got to the place that I was trying to get to, which is for him to just hear me and validate me and see that I'm having a hard time with a mental load and with a division of labor and I actually want to talk about that and make a proactive plan on how he could do more around here and all of those things that are important and necessary. Right?

17:40 So, I actually shoot myself in the back. I stab myself when I start losing control in a conversation because now it becomes about style, right? They say the medium is the message, right? And I think that's very true in communication between partners. It matters a lot less the words you're saying and matters a lot more the way you're saying them. If it's perceived by him as over the top, as aggressive, as loud as as as you know, you're triggered and and you're you're angry and he just can't take it, then it doesn't matter that what you're actually saying is a cry for help. What you're actually saying is, "Babe, I'm overwhelmed. I'm underwater. I'm parenting too much. I'm doing too much housework. I need more help. Babe, I need you to see me. I need you to adore me. I need you to grab me in a big hug."

18:21 He can't hear that message at all. Like, not at all. Because he's perceiving you as criticizing him, as threatening, as being angry, as being unpleasable, right? All of those things. When you're emotionally disregulated, therefore, your message doesn't get across. And so, having a stress response and expressing it in a way that feels really chaotic and disrespectful to him, uh, both of those things can be true. Okay, you might be have feeling like I'm really stressed. I'm in need. I need you to see me and validate me and understand me, but you're also probably what he's saying is also probably true that the way that you're expressing that feels really chaotic and disrespectful to him.

19:03 So, he shuts down and then you feel even worse. Am I right? Then you feel like, what? Not only was I stressed and I was coming to you with my stress, but you couldn't hold space for that. You couldn't validate that. You couldn't see me. You just reacted to my style, right? And you feel attacked and now it's all about you. And now you're fragile and you're not a man in my eyes and you look pathetic and you look small and you look unccapable. What? You can't handle a woman's feelings like a few feelings I had about about life and you just took it so personally and ran away or or or lashed out or got all defensive. It's really not cool, right?

19:40 So the fix is not going to be in convincing him that your reaction is justified. You that's kind of what you asked for, right? Let's read your question again. You said, "How can I um explain to my husband about the emotional buildup and why we talk to each other like this?" Okay, the fix is not going to be about explaining it to him. This is not a logical explanation thing. He can fully understand the biology of fight orflight mode. he can fully understand that there's an emotional buildup and then you're stressed and then you you have to kind of, you know, explode and and let it all out and share your feelings and and you get more and more disregulated the less he holds space for that. Uh we're not going to be able to get there, I think, in convincing or in logic. Okay? It's actually going to be about taking leadership over your regulation and over your delivery so that you can be heard.

20:31 I know this is not the answer you probably wanted from me. probably wanted me to give you the lines to tell your husband exactly how to understand this. And I can do that too and we can certainly do that too. You can have that conversation too. But it's going to be more about explaining yourself and [snorts] trying to master yourself a little bit in your delivery and you'll get a lot better results from him. He needs to feel that he's not being motherthered. He's not being uh told off by a teacher. He's not being criticized and told you're not enough. You're not man enough. You're not good enough. You don't do enough. you don't earn enough, you're not helpful enough. Right? He needs to feel that this isn't about attack on him, but it's about the woman he loves and cherishes coming to him as her hero. Yes, I know that sounds cringe, but that's what he needs. He needs to feel like your hero and that you are asking him for support and that you're uh pleasable, that it's possible for him to win. If he feels that he cannot win with you, that anything he says and anything he does is just going to spiral you further into more tears and more anger, then he's going to withdraw and not even try.

21:35 Now, it's confusing because when you come to him with your feelings and he's like, "Oh, babe, here, let me let me listen." That's your opening. You're like, "Okay, let me tell you." And you let it all out and you think, "Wow, great. He can hold space for me. He's going to listen. He's going to actually be there for me this time." But what he thinks is, "Wait, I came to you with warmth and with receptivity and then it made you even more mad. You got even more complaints out of your pocket. I guess this isn't the right route." And that's a little bit, not to be kind of patronizing to men, but that's a little bit the concrete uh thinking that men sometimes get trapped in, like, "Wait, she's crying more, so I went the wrong route." And instead of, "Wait, she's crying more cuz she's finally feels safe to release all her emotions with me."

22:17 They're not necessarily going to grasp that mechanism. Okay, you could say something along the lines of, you know, when I start talking fast or getting loud, it means I'm really overwhelmed. I'm afraid. I feel like I'm not being heard. Um, and not that I want to attack you. And I know that it sometimes comes out in ways that sound like criticism or you think I'm attacking you or I'm, you know, making this about you. But the truth is it's about me feeling like I'm flailing. And I want you to see me more like someone drowning AND BEING LIKE, AH. AND THEN you come to save me. I'm still overwhelmed and grasping for air, but I'm grateful that you're saving me and you shouldn't just walk away and leave me in the water because I need you. I do actually need you. Okay, I'm going to work on pausing and coming back calmer so that we can solve this as a team. I'm going to work on how I word my language. I'm going to work on my tone of voice and my my body language and my facial expressions. But what helps me the most in those conversations is when you when I know that you'll stay engaged, you'll stay there, you'll listen, you'll hear me, maybe you'll even hold me, and then we'll pick this both up when we're both regulated, right? We'll pick it back up and we'll get back into the conversation. So, what I think needs to happen is a conversation about these conversations where you do take accountability for what you're saying and what you're doing. It's not entirely true that we're not in control of that. We can say, you know what, I need to calm down. I need to think about how I'm phrasing things.

23:48 We don't actually have license to just kind of, you know, like vomit our anxieties and our uh frustrations and our insecurities on our partner in an uh disregulated way. Even though they're our person, even though it should be a secure attachment, even though there's a safety there, um there is actually or there I think it's wise to put in place guard rails of you know how expressive and how you know we think of it as expressive but it can easily be interpreted as an attack as aggression as um being very very negative towards our partners. And so inside of married you I'm going to teach you exactly how to do that. We actually have an entire module called understood, an entire module called understanding, and it's all about how do I understand what my partner's trying to say, and how do I make sure they understand what I'm trying to say? Because what you're trying to say, correct me if I'm wrong, Tessa, in those moments is I'm really overwhelmed. I'm really struggling. I need more from you. Can you help me?

24:48 Right. But what he's hearing is, you suck. You're a jerk of a husband. You're not good enough. You can't even hold a normal conversation with me right now. you're not a real man. And when he hears that, even though you didn't mean it, what he is going to do is protect himself. He's going to be like, I don't need this. You know, he's going to get defensive. And I need you, or I hope that you want for yourself to learn how to say those same things in a way that he can hear it, that he can actually absorb it and actually be like, "Oh, babe, of course, I'm here for you. Tell me how I can help you because I can promise you this to you, Tessa, and to anyone else who's listening.

25:28 99 out of a 100red men uh husbands want to please their wives. Okay? 99 out of a 100red husbands really just want their wives to be happy with them. Just want to put a smile on her face. Just want to make her feel exactly how she wants to feel. Okay. But the same number, 99 out of 100, don't know how to respond when you're triggered and overwhelmed. They just don't know. And they will, almost all of them, feel defensive, feel like, why are you attacking me? Right? I just want to be the hero. I'm a good guy. I'm one of the good guys. Why are you making it out like I'm a bad guy? And that will make even the best of marriages derailed. Okay? It will just send you off the rails, both of you. And so, we have to learn to ask for what we want and what we need and what would please us in a way that he can hear without all his defenses going up. And that is entirely possible. And it is what I will teach you inside of Married You. Now, doors close really soon. So, make sure that you hop on over to this right now and sign up. And I would love love love to be able to coach you on the inside.

26:39 Much much love. And I'll see you in our next Q&A. We have some incredible questions coming up. I will continue to try and answer all of them. Leave them in the comments below. Your key questions, your takeaways. I would love to hear everything. And if you have any questions about joining Married You, you better ask them now because we're about to close the doors. Much much love and I'll see you on the inside.