Beyond the Smartphone: Cristiano Amon on Qualcomm’s AI Revolution and the Global Bridge

0:00 Our guest today isn't just leading a technology company. He's redefining what that company can be. Cristiano Amon is the president and CEO of Qualcomm, and under his leadership, Qualcomm is undergoing a significant evolution. Long known as a company that powered the smartphone revolution and made 3G, 4G, and 5G possible, Cristiano has been clear about his ambition to expand Qualcomm far beyond mobile and position it at the center of intelligent computing everywhere. Cristiano rose through the Qualcomm engineering and product ranks, which gives him a deep understanding of both the technology and the ecosystem. And now at a moment when AI is shifting from the cloud to the edge, he's betting that the future belongs to powerful, energy-efficient computing built directly into the devices around us.

0:49 I've had the privilege of working with Cristiano through the Global Semiconductor Alliance, where he serves on the board of directors and leads the CEO Council. In those settings, I've seen firsthand his ability to bring industry leaders together around shared challenges, from supply chain resilience to innovation policy to the future of global competitiveness. Today, we'll talk about what kind of leadership it takes to reinvent a company that's already successful, how you balance legacy strengths with bold expansion, and why he believes Qualcomm's next chapter may be its most consequential yet.

1:32 All right, Cristiano, welcome to A Bit Personal. I'm so excited to have you. Very happy to talk to you, Jenny. Yeah, and we're at Qualcomm's headquarters today, so thank you for all the hospitality. >> Oh, no problem. Thank you for being here. So, I'm really excited to hear sort of the personal story behind your public success, and I'm sure the audience is as well. And you you have your career has unfolded sort of at the intersection of very fascinating intersection of worlds. So, you were born and grew up in Brazil, you became the CEO of a major American technology company, which happens to connect billions of people across the globe together. So, that's quite an ironic arc.

2:15 So, tell me a little bit about what it was like growing up in Brazil, what the environment was like, and how it impacted your view as a child. Yes. Well, it's a you know, it's a it's a difficult question to answer, but look, I'm Yeah, born and raised in Brazil. I've been It's interesting, I've been here now for about a little over 30 years, but I did, you know, you know, grew up in Brazil, went to electrical engineering school in Brazil.

2:42 That's where I got you know, into electrical engineering. And and I think I'm I'm a little bit of a a mix, I think of both. I think I have incorporated a lot of elements, I think, of the American culture, but I also, you know, somebody that has elements of Brazilian culture, and I think this it's been great. So, do you think that that sort of cultural diversification that you grew up around helped you be a better CEO of a global company? Look, I often talk to few There's few of us other, I think, Brazilian-born CEOs, and we kind of There's there's often we meet at events and we talk about it, and I think there's one thing that I believe it is true for all of us.

3:34 Brazil is not for beginners. So, so I think what happens is you learn how to deal with adversity, you know how to deal with difficulty. So, you actually have you don't panic. You know, things Okay. sometimes things don't work as planned, and you have to improvise, and I think that's one of the things that you learn growing up in Brazil. Okay. and I do believe that it has brought a benefit, I think, to how how I deal with business, how I deal with adversity, and I think probably other Brazilian CEOs will tell the same thing. I think that's that's the advantage that you have of been you know, grew up in a place that you have to deal with a lot of adversity, a lot of hot changes all the time, and I think that that's a skill, I think, that comes in handy. Right. Right. Yeah, I mean, I've heard from a lot of CEOs that some stories about resilience, and it sounds like just growing up in Brazil takes resilience. So, maybe that you can transfer that over to to your role as CEO.

4:40 So, it's it's been interesting to talk to to so many CEOs on this podcast and and learn about what success meant in their household. So, some of them have said, "Oh, well, I mean, you know, it was sort of a minimum requirement to get a PhD." Or they talk about, "Well, I mean, I had to at least be number one in my class, or I would have disappointed my parents." So, tell me a little bit about the values and expectations and definition of success in the household that you grew up in.

5:10 probably very different than the things you just described. It was Look, it was kind of I will say my dad probably had an influence in me because he's an electrical engineer. However, it's a little different. I think he he has the classical electrical engineering, not electronics, so he worked at utility company at my hometown in his whole career. It was you know, that's the traditional electrical engineer of energy generation, you know, transmission, and distribution. so, he had an influence, but it was kind of different. Actually, you know, when I went to high school, and I wanted to go to college, and my dad said, "You can You can choose anything you want, as long as engineering school, law school, medical school, right?" And And then I thought, "Okay, well, of the three of them, I think I probably like engineering the most." I think there was an influence about, you know, my dad being an electrical engineer that I picked electrical engineer. I was always fascinated about communications and wireless. I think the mindset that I get in my household, which is the same, I think, that probably my dad got from my grandpa. My grandpa, you know, it's the story of of many immigrants in America and in Brazil. I think my grandfather immigrated from from Lebanon. It's a Catholic town in Lebanon called Machdouche. Immigrated in the very early 1900s. I think, like everybody, you know, at the time, there boats going to New York, there boats going to Santos.

6:40 That's where he went. start working on a coffee coffee farms, and then kind of save some money. start building his own business. So, I think we always had this mindset that you're going to have to, you know, you're going to got to go through life, and you have to figure out how to survive. I think my dad was like that. So, that was kind of my mindset, and that's kind of probably had an influence how did I actually left Brazil. You know, I saw an opportunity when I came out of college, my first job was at NEC, and I and they wanted to transfer me to Japan, and I went. And and and I think from there to Qualcomm.

7:19 So, I think that's probably the mindset that had an influence, but yeah, it's just things just just happened. Okay. I mean, was there a big emphasis on education, like no matter what, you have to go No, but I do remember one of one of the things I do remember that my dad said it to me, which is is true, and I think I took it to heart. I think when he said, "Look, it'll be a good idea, you know, for you to get to a good university and and get a degree, because no matter what happens to your life, you may lose everything, but that's not going to be taken away from you." And I think, "Okay, it's a good idea. I need I need to go do that."

8:01 In in Brazil, very Brazilian families, very tight familial bonds, a lot of traditions. You talked about resilience. What of those three things carried over to your life when you raised your children? Oh, family incredibly important. Incredibly important. Like, for example, there are it's and it's it's a unique thing to the Brazilian culture and probably the family they grew up with. Okay, so I mean, Brazil is is such a vibrant culture. I mean, my future career >> Happy place. Yeah, so fun. But in the 1980s and '90s, it wasn't like sort of a hotbed of technology. So, it is very interesting that you found your way into the most sophisticated industry in the world. Often people in Brazil refer to me and others, I think, as part of the Brazilian engineering diaspora, you know? Because what happened is during the '80s and the '90s, there was a lot of things happening within Brazil on the engineering side. Maybe I'm going to tell you, like, for example, Brazil is one of the few countries in the world that have created an aerospace industry.

9:14 Look at Embraer, that makes planes, as an example that Brazil it was there was a massive amount of Brazilian engineering in hydroelectric power plants. If you remember what happened in the oil crisis of the '80s, Brazil was the first country in the world that actually developed a completely renewable fuel with ethanol, and most of the cars weren't ethanol. So, you have And then what happened, especially in electronics, was a time that there was a lot of incentives, I think, for companies to to to develop you know, a lot of technology associated with computing. And and And it was interesting, necessity is the mother of invention. Most of the most advanced computing companies in Brazil was derivative from the financial sector because Brazil was one of the first countries to actually digitize the banking system because you have hyperinflation of 30% per month so you can't do the stuff with you know pen and paper anymore. I've been educated in Brazil. I think I went to you know a great electrical engineering class and it's interesting when I look at the people that graduated with me probably about half are outside Brazil mostly in the United States.

10:32 And I think that's what happened. It was just a the transition where that industry that was developed took in a different direction. And and it creates a mass exodus I think of especially folks from from engineering from electronics and I'm one of them. Okay. Well, I'm sure that the hometown is very very proud of you. And what you've accomplished. I tried you know I try to when I go there I try to be you know the person that grew up there. I I I'm I'm always like a very low profile person. I go frequently. My parents are there and I always have the list of a restaurant I want to go a list of friends I keep different WhatsApp group from from my middle school friends from my high school friends from my college friends and and that's kind of opportunity to kind of remain connected with them when I go there.

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12:01 Now let's get back to the episode. So you joined Qualcomm in the mid-1990s. 1995. >> 1995 exactly mid and of course as you said you know wireless was still a really bold idea. And so you joined the company and then all of a sudden this revolution happens. When did you realize that you were part of something that was going to change entirely the way that the world communicates? Early early. Look, I think when I when I got out of college it was like the beginning of cell globally right and including that was the beginning of you know cellular systems you know analog at that time was amps I think being deployed in Brazil and I think in Brazil the the largest company at that time in infra that time in the early cellular some of the biggest companies were the infrastructure companies companies like Ericsson you know at the time was AT&T network systems that became Lucent of course Motorola that was the king you know of cellular and in in a in in a very unique way I think outside Japan Brazil was probably the largest market for NEC just because of the big Japanese community the largest largest Japanese community outside Japan it's Japanese that migrated to Brazil in the early 1900s. So NEC has always it was a big company at the time. So I joined them right out of college and and I was it was the beginning of cellular where we're kind of building the infrastructure. I started my career as MSC mobile switching center system engineer.

13:46 And within about 1 year into the job I just came out of college they decided to transfer me to the headquarters. That's why I left Brazil first time I went to Japan. And then quickly you saw that cellular is going to move to digital cellular. And and at the time I was part of the group that actually you know it's not the question you asked but I'm going to tell the story because it's interesting. I was part of the group that came from a business trip from from Japan actually to San Diego to meet this tiny company called Qualcomm that has this invented this technology called CDMA.

14:23 And they wanted to understand about this technology and probably take a license to build a digital cellular system with CDMA. That was my first experience with Qualcomm. This is Qualcomm a small company. Interesting when I landed in San Diego I got off the plane I look at the city and I said wow I think I'm going to live here. I don't know how but I I have a feeling I'm going to live in this town. That's it and kind of went and went by and then I saw what Qualcomm was doing and and understood I think what Qualcomm was doing I said this is incredible. This is this is revolutionary. I think maybe the fact of my understanding of the technology and communications. And to my surprise I didn't expect it but then you know Qualcomm you know offered to hire me and that's why I joined Qualcomm 1995 before the very first CDMA system went live there was a scratchy one in Hong Kong.

15:19 It was funny because when I told my dad I said dad I you know I got this this a job offer to join this company and I joined Qualcomm as an engineer in 1995. And and I said this company called Qualcomm and he said never heard of this company. What are you doing? You should you know you're working a big company called NEC. Why are you going to do this? And but for me at that time to answer your question I had clarity. This is going to be this is going to be incredibly successful of what's happening in the wireless and I've been very fortunate I've been through my career and the fact you know I did analog at NEC but with Qualcomm 2G 3G 4G 5G maybe 6G so I I've been fortunate enough to participate and see every single wireless transition and wireless has actually done with the society and the world.

16:13 So you so you really came to Qualcomm because of the technology and understanding the way you feel. >> Yeah I love the company love the company love the technology I and I said well I can't believe it. I love the town I love the company love the technology I can't believe this is happening and it was great and look I'm very biased I tell people I'm I I I love Qualcomm. I've been this company for 30 years. I think it's incredible place. I feel when I look about my job as CEO more than anything I I know every CEO is accountable to the shareholders of the company but more than anything I feel incredible responsibility to steer this company that you know has done so much for me and for many of us they're part of Qualcomm. Actually that's the biggest responsibility. How do I you know I I every day I hope I'm doing the right thing for the people that I can trusted you know of this company and entrusted in me the ability to lead them and I I want to make sure I don't screw up because this company is very special. Okay.

17:21 It's nice so I I remember when I was meeting with Steve Mollenkopf who was the former CEO and I was trying to remember the exact day but I remember he had just had a meeting with Hillary Clinton so I think that it was during the election in 2016. And I was visiting him here and he's like oh by the way you really need to get to know Cristiano Amon. So at that point you'd been at Qualcomm for decades. You stayed because you said you love the company loyal to the mission of the company.

17:51 So did you know ultimately I mean was it your dream when you started or it's what point in your career did you think I could be the CEO of this company? >> No no no like I like I like I said look born born in in a city in the interior of the state of São Paulo in Brazil I'll never imagine I'm going to be CEO of Qualcomm one day. No. I would say the only the only time that actually that became clear to me I think when Steve made me president of the company 2018 with the intent of you know as preparing me for becoming his successor but before that I was you know like even even how I progressed within Qualcomm was just as a natural result of of what we're doing and it was kind of it was the right thing to happen at that time and and I and I took that as the next mission. I never had oh yeah I'm going to I'm going to plan this out though I'm going to be CEO of this company now. It just happened. So how did once the the company saw what the transition was going to be with Steve how did how did they prepare you or how did Steve prepare you?

19:08 I grew up within the semiconductor business the company. I have if you look at my trajectory I think I was you know when Steve became president of the semiconductor business QCT I was I was running the mobile business there was CDMA and WCDMA at that time. I think then later as as Steve became president of the company I was running the semiconductor business. And then I went to the trajectory I think that that the Steve had and I became president of the company became CEO.

19:41 So I think it was kind of the the natural I think evolution that that probably started with our founder Irwin I think it just happened this way. Irwin always said even even when I, you know, I I talked to him when we had our 40th anniversary, he repeated which is, you know, a Qualcomm CEO has to be an engineer and I think that's kind of we don't have many of those, but I think that's the the tradition. So, I think it's probably I'll say the natural progression that we expect to have in Qualcomm. And how did that personally feel when you the day that you were named CEO of Qualcomm?

20:24 I felt a little bit of I think it goes probably everyone goes through this. You have a mix of excitement about and then you have wow, I look at what I need to do now. I you know, you the bar becomes higher. There's always a lot of challenges. So, I think you know, as much as people may want to say CEOs are not easy jobs. Sometimes it's a lonely job, too. I try not to make it lonely, but and it comes with the excitement comes an incredible sense of responsibility and and I think I won't say fear, but you know, you you don't want to fail. You wanted you want it to succeed and and I think you you know, especially as a new CEO, you know, you're going to have to learn things. So, I think I never approach any job thinking oh, I know everything.

21:15 That's actually one of the motivations for me to do new things and that propelling me in my career was actually the desire to learn new things. And and to be a CEO, I I knew I had to learn new things. So, when you became the CEO, what were what was one or two things that you knew that you had to get right in the beginning in order for the the ship to stay on course? Well, there were a couple things.

21:41 Maybe some of those things it will resonate because you can see it. Some of those things you probably don't see it. So, let me start with the things you don't see it. I think I needed to do an important transition for the company. I think the company Qualcomm through its mission has reinvented itself many times. But I if I go back to the beginning state and the end state, I think it's easier to to describe that transition.

22:09 Qualcomm used to be a licensing company that had a semiconductor business on the side. Qualcomm today is a semiconductor business that happens to be a licensing business on the side. All right, so so one of the things I needed to do I needed to complete the transition into making Qualcomm equal the semiconductor company. And and I think has a lot to do how we organize ourselves, how we thought about the structure of the company, how how we think about you know, the position of of the business and I think that's one of one of the things that it was a mission that I knew I needed to do as CEO. That's more an internal thing. External, hopefully people can see that. That was a long journey, but not a lot of time.

22:55 If you remember when I became CEO, I had an investor day in 2021. I became CEO June 30, 2021. I have an investor day and said this is what we're going to do as a company. We're going to diversify the company. We're going to this going to be the focus. We're going to go build all those different business. And the technology that we have and we develop can be relevant to so all those others industries and we're going to go put this plan in place. And I think that was that was the main mission.

23:27 And we're still on our way. But I it feels like a different Qualcomm right now. I like I've been in the company for 30 years. It feels like a different company. If you look we're probably now one of the few semiconductor companies that go from sub sub to milliwatts to 2,000 watts. And we're now into mobile, the future personal AI devices, when broadband wireless and wireline, we're in the PC, we're industrial, we're in the robotics, we're entering into the data center, and I think that was the transformation of Qualcomm into a much more diversified company, but it was important to create different capabilities and core competencies for Qualcomm and all those other industries across semi and and that was the main mission. Okay.

24:19 Okay, so let's Two ways. It's two ways. Okay, so let we'll we'll talk a little bit about that. Let's first talk about smartphones. So, you know, again, one of the one of the reasons that I started this podcast was for people to get to know the leaders behind the technology that's absolutely going to transform their lives. Okay, and wireless transformed people's lives and you know, I mean in countless ways. But wireless didn't just happen. It had to be imagined, it had to be engineered, it had to be built and Qualcomm was at the center of that.

24:51 So, tell me before we go on to kind of the diversification strategy, tell me a little bit about where we are in this moment on smartphones and whether or not smartphones are just sort of okay, they're like, you know, water and electricity. It's just a given that it's mature, we've hit a peak or is there some new leap that is going to happen whether through AI or form factor or whatever you see as the next wave of innovation. Yeah, I love answering this question. And the reason I love answering this question because maybe maybe the reason we at Qualcomm we we have a different perspective on those things is maybe a little bit because of the history. I just told you that I've been fortunate enough in being able to be to every single wireless generation.

25:39 And every single generation of wireless, there was a very important capability that needed to be added to wireless and the associated trans formation that comes from the capability. So, it's easier for me to answer this question walking into this journey, right? So, when 2G started and that was the when Qualcomm got into the map with CDMA, the purpose was can you create a technology that allow every person on Earth to have a telephone with the same quality that you have on a wireline. That was CDMA.

26:14 And and and you saw what happened with 2G. 2G, you have this massive explosion that everybody got a phone. Everybody got a phone. That that happened with 2G. So, exploded. It was an incredible thing. You can walk around with a telephone and you can now be contact every person in the world and every person in the world can contact you. What was 3G? 3G was about the internet just started. Can we connect those phones to the internet? And you saw what happened you know, because of 3G you started to see a lot more of us using email, getting email with attachments. You started to see you know, how popular those devices became not only for you to make phone calls, but you to get information, for you to communicate via email, via text. You saw the Blackberry, you know, that was an incredible thing.

27:09 Then 4G. Can we actually deliver broadband? And by delivering broadband, we're going to turn the phone into a computer. And I don't need to tell you what happened with the smartphone revolution. I think if I take away your phone, you're going to be very unhappy right now. And and that was the mission of 4G. It was not just about broadband, can we make the phone into a computer? It's now the largest development platform ever created by mankind. And it pushes the boundaries from a technology. I will argue because of 4G and because it was a clear understanding what the mission was that Qualcomm became a computing company because we were not before, but because of 4G we had to. You you probably remember we're the first company in the world to actually create a CPU called Scorpion.

27:57 They had a gigahertz processor clock speed and could actually run a high-level OS in a phone. Nothing was available at the time. And Qualcomm, you know, had to go do that. And and and I think a lot of the capabilities we develop in computing was before we needed to develop the fundamental technologies that enable and the standard allow the phone to become a computer with broadband. That's 4G. So, 4G did other things, right? Because because of 4G you saw a whole different industry get developed as a result of that. There would be no Uber if it wasn't for 4G and smartphone. There won't be.

28:36 And you and I can give you examples like after example of different full companies and business that got created on top of this platform. And one of the things you saw with 4G is that we're starting to give up our our iPods and starting to see and our CDs and start to stream music. Today, the cars don't even have a CD player anymore. You stream music. But when you could started to get to the smartphone revolution, a couple things happened.

29:06 you don't have a technology anymore to to provide unlimited data rates. And you don't have a technology to actually allow you to have high definition video consumption. So, that was the mission of 5G. 5G actually has three major features. Can I enable a smartphone to have unlimited data rates in the same way that you actually have at your home? And it's interesting, a lot of people take that for granted. I often keep hearing people say, "Well, I don't get I didn't see that significant change from 4G to to 5G." Of course, people people are so used to smartphone, they take for granted.

29:46 Because of 5G, you have unlimited data rates and you actually have high definition video download. Look at what did with video streaming. What they did 4G did for music, it did for video. And also 5G has emission critical capabilities. Okay, that's where we are right now. Okay. >> >> So now I'm going to start answering your question. What's 6G? There's a There's a real capability that is now required. And and and you have to understand the overall context of where we are at at's a a society from a technology evolution standpoint to understand what's what is 6G all about. So, now I'm going to tell you what's happening with AI. So, in the history of of personal computing, and that's where phones are inserted into it.

30:40 now PCs, phones is the largest personal computing platform. In the history of personal computing, a lot of those things we have seen the evolution of the computing, evolution of the software, evolution the use case coming as a result of the change in the human computer interface. When when the first PC was created by the combination of Intel, Microsoft, and IBM, we there was an S2 keyboard, right? So, we all learn how to type an S2 keyboard. You look at an OS that was designed for that human interface, text, that was MS-DOS, and and that was the first computer.

31:18 Then Xerox invented the mouse, and you could now have a graphical user interface. Incredible. As a result, the computer changed, the OS changed, even changed from MS-DOS to Windows. The programs, we didn't call apps at the time, we called programs, changed dramatically. And because the human computer interface changed. But now, the computer could fit in the palm of your hand and you touch it.

31:48 The whole thing changed. OS's changed, app stores came. We talk about apps, developers started to develop an app in a small screen for you to touch, and that's kind of where we are right now. But now, one of the capabilities of AI, especially when you talk about large visual models, large language models, now the computer understand us. We don't have to teach We don't have to learn people how to interact with a computer. Whatever we say, whatever we hear, whatever we see, and that see is very important, the computer understands. So, one of the many capabilities of AI, besides you go to a chat box and ask a question, is taking a role now in a human computer interface.

32:30 Therefore, everything changes. The computer's going to change, the OS is going to change, the application's going to change, the network's going to change. So now I'm going to connect this with the conversation we just had about 6G. So now, we're going to an environment that from our phone, we going to start to have different classes of devices and the in those applications are going to get replaced by agents, and the agents are going to hear what we say, they're going to read what we write, and they're going to see what we see. Just think about see what we see.

33:11 That's a massive uplink. So, one of the things that 6G brings, one of the many things, is 6G is going to be the technology that needs to solve a very important problem, which is now 5G was about high performance, high definition video streaming. Now I need a massive uplink because we all going to be walking cameras. We're going to have our glasses, and our glasses are going to see what we see, and we're going to interact with the agents.

33:42 and I can happy to talk about some of the use cases, but many of the use cases are yet to be invented in the same way that nobody thought about Uber when we start thinking about 4G. So, that's one of the things that's going to happen with 6G. I have a massive uplink. The other thing that's going to happen with 6G is we're going to use AI in the network. And and the ability to we're going to teach the the system is going to is going to process radio signals as physical AI. Radio signals are going to be physical AI that you're going to have models going to be trained on it, and with that, you're going to start have a brand new capability. You're going to treat every radio signal as radar, and you're going to have a digital twin of the world at scale.

34:30 So, this is another thing that 6G will do, and that's provide important context for agents. So, we're just at the beginning of one of the biggest changes that we had in the mobile industry, and it's going to be the same thing that happened before, and I'll add on top of that a tradition. For us in the wireless industry, we know that even numbers are very disruptive. 2G was massive. Everybody got a phone. 4G was massive. Your phone became a computer. 6G is where you're going to have now agents being part of the interface, and the experience is going to feel very very different. It's going to be walk You're going to be with glasses that and a smart glass is one of the devices. There's going to be more devices. But you're going to have glasses that going to be seeing what you see, and it's going to be immersed in the context. It's like you have a friend, and I'm going to Let's say I see you on the street, and then the agent's going to tell me, "Hey Cristiano, just pay attention. Jodie's coming. You may want to say hi." I say, "Hi Jodie, how are you?" Or it's I'll be walking around and you know, in your job, and your agent's going to tell you, like, "I notice you have a few minutes right now. Can I talk to you about your agenda? You have some conflict that I would like to sort it out for you." And what else you going to do? You're going to buy things? I don't know. But those That's we're just at the beginning of a big change. So, the reason I love answer this question when you ask me, "Is like smartphones is like mature is this industry now to the point and and usually that's what happens at the at the end of a generation, at the beginning of another generation." So, for us at Qualcomm, that's like that's par for the course.

36:14 We We've seen this happen with the mobile industry at you know, since the very beginning. But we're incredibly excited about what the changes are going to be in in in mobile. And what is interesting is this. When agents become the center, you're going to have a massive industry change. We can We can already see it, and it is change is going to come in two ways. One way that this industry is going to change is the center of gravity is going to move from your smartphone to agents, and I'll I'll explain what that means. But the other shift is workloads are going to start shifting between devices.

36:54 I remember in the early days of smartphone, when we had you know, 4G and the phone became a computer as smartphones, there were people said, "This is going to replace the PC." Now, it didn't replace the PC. Like we still have our PC. They're very very useful. when we go to the PC, we do we work with the PC based on on the form factor we used to. We use an S2 keyboard. Even though you can touch your PC, you don't touch it. You do a mouse and keyboard.

37:24 But workloads did shift. We used to do e-commerce on PCs. We don't do it anymore. The majority of the world does e-commerce on a mobile device. So, what's going to happen is you will still going to have your phone. Your phone, like you're still going to have PC, your phone's not going to go anywhere. But some of the workloads are going to shift to glasses, to jewelry, to pendants. If I give an I put an IP address on a piece of jewelry that has a microphone and a camera, I can connect to an agent, I can do incredible things.

37:52 so, so we're going to see those new classes of devices. And the next phase of mobile is going to be the mix of fashion and technology because humans already decided what they wear. We're not going to go out and and see everybody wearing a big helmet. No. I think everybody's going to wear what they wear, but technology's going to get incorporated. So, the next phase of mobile will be the extension of of agents to multiple devices, different class of devices.

38:20 You're going to see the mix of fashion and technology. Your phone's going to have a dual role. And I will finish this answer by saying the biggest shift that is not yet understood is we're moving now from a smartphone center to an agent center. So, when you think about the definition of something as simple as a wearable, before or today, it's just a device that it provide an extension of the functionality of your phone. That's why you almost most people buy the wearable from the same company because if you get a watch, it sends your sensor data to the phone, get notification back from the phone.

39:02 But now, if the center is the agent, once the agent understand human intentions, it doesn't matter which device it is, things change. For example, you may have you may define the functionality of a smart watch based on the fact they get notification and send data for the phones. Tomorrow, you you measure the value of this about the number of things that the agent can do for you. It's going to feel like an app store. Like every week, your your watch or your smart glass get a new function and get a new function. And I think that's what we're going to see with the next transition of mobile. Very long answer to your question, but as you can see at Qualcomm, we're very passionate about this. No, it's an amazing vision.

39:43 So, when is 6G? it's going to come soon. I think we we actually talk about it at MWC. we we're going to have silicon in '28 and the first systems are going to be in '29. We're very proud. I think we we announced a coalition. We got I think now 60 companies that you know share the vision with Qualcomm and it's going to be the next future of mobile, but that's kind of the natural progression anyway. Yeah.

40:18 Again, it's very exciting to think about that. So, when you when you started as CEO in 2021, your vision was to diversify the company at least 50% outside of mobile. Well, Witty, I think what we wanted at the time is we we realized there's so many growth markets that Qualcomm technology would be relevant. I think one of the unique things about Qualcomm, I know our competitors are not going to agree with this, but I think we have an incredible technology capability. Every new industry we enter, we actually develop in the leading platform from a product and technology standpoint. And the idea was actually to create significant growth for the company on markets that are growing. Phones phones right now, it's it's a mature market and phone is still below the total number of phones that used to be before the pandemic.

41:16 Phone growth with GDP with population because everybody has a phone. It's artificially suppressed this year because of the fun everybody's having with memory right now. But it until you have a big technology transition like the one that is coming with 6G, the market you know becomes a mature market that grows single digit. However, there are many other opportunities right now when you look at the broad semiconductor market that Qualcomm has the right to participate. They're growing double digit. Some some if you look at our automotive business, we have been doing 30% growth year over year record after record. And so, when we real we put the strategy, we're going to go after all of this. It just happens.

42:05 It just happens in the way we're growing in those markets. Mobile is going to be about 50% of the Qualcomm revenue. as we get scale in those other markets, it could be more, it could be less, but I think it's it and and the reason I'm I'm giving you this answer versus a very simple answer is yes, we said fiscal '29 mobile's going to be 50%. It's because fiscal '29 you can have a big 6G upgrade and then everything's going to be growing. So, we'll see. Okay.

42:35 This episode is brought to you by Morgan Stanley. Morgan Stanley celebrated its 90th anniversary last year and its tech investment banking team has prided itself in working with the most innovative entrepreneurs and leadership companies for decades. During that time, they've led IPOs for hundreds of tech companies including Apple, ARM, Astera Labs, Broadcom, Cisco, Facebook, Google, Nvidia, Salesforce, and Uber. In addition, they worked as a trusted advisor and executed thousands of M&A transactions for some of the most industry defining deals in technology.

43:13 Throughout the years, Morgan Stanley's tech investment banking team's success has been achieved by dedication, consistency, and a North Star purpose of helping its clients to maximize their opportunities and overcome their challenges. Now, let's get back to the episode. So, of the diversification markets, which are you most excited about? >> All of it. Okay. >> All of it. Okay. I love all my products, all my markets. Now, there are some that are different stage of development than others. Automotive, I think we're very proud of it. I think we're now working with virtually every OEM in the world is one way or the other a customer of Qualcomm. I think we we did the right thing. We had with the right vision that you know the car is going to become you know a connected computer on wheels and but it's got a car. It's not it's not a phone. It's not a PC.

44:08 It's a car. It's a new computing surface. I and I think we're very proud of what we accomplished. And and I could I tell the story later if you're interested how do we decided to get into the automotive business. But the other ones that also we're incredibly excited about it is we have a right to play in robotics. Robotics, everything that made us successful in cars are going to are true in robotics. You need a lot of battery life in robotics. You need high level integration. You need industrial capabilities. So, if you want a robot that's $20,000 to become $5,000, if you need it to have from 2 hours of battery life to 6 or 8 hours of battery life, if you need to have the the level of integration that you see on phones and similar electronic, that's right in the Qualcomm you know core competence. So, it was just it's just going to be another validation of what we prove in automotive. So, I'm very excited about that. I'm excited about the digital transformation of industrial which has a lot of AI on the edge. I think it's been an area that was not well understood, but the the I look at this business today, Jody. I am not demand bound. I'm solution bound.

45:23 Like our ability to serve all of the customers, it's what constraining us right now. It's a massive market. And you know, I like being the underdog in data center. So, so I'm but yes, I feel I'm excited about everything we're doing. This new future of mobile, we just talked about it. I think the progress we have been making in broadband and those things are important I think for Qualcomm. you know, given the our ambitions and the scale of business we want to have, I think all of those efforts are important and that's one of the reasons we're doing all of it in the same time.

46:01 So, do you think Wall Street appreciates what you're trying to do? >> they will. It's look, I it's just I think our our message has been consistent. We have been executing and I think you know, we have been showing progress. Each one of those business, we actually built the right products which is the for company like Qualcomm, the most important thing is product. If you don't have the right product, you don't have the the right to win. But I'm going to give an example.

46:27 In >> >> I remember those are not perfect examples, but those you know, sometimes it's it's good to point it out. I remember like TI when do you have the the decline of Nokia and TI was a Nokia supplier, right? For a very very long time. I think until they went to that transition Nokia, they had very low multiples. I think the the market didn't appreciate. And then if you saw what happened right after they transition out of mobile and and they continue to execute on on the strategy that they had in place, you know, how much their multiple expensive and evaluation changed. And I think it's just I feel that Qualcomm we're going to this process today which is we no no matter how much time I tell that yes, we're going to transition out of Apple, people want to see you know, you know, you're you get a multiple of an Apple supplier.

47:30 You get a multiple of mobile. It is so interesting. I know we're doing something right because sometimes I have people come and say yes, if this particular diversified business was stand on company, this is the multiple you're going to get. Why didn't it spin that out? So, I think it's just it's just a matter of time. We just continue to execute and and I think we're going to get the valuation we deserve because what really matters is is the IP capability of this company and I think the track record of this company from a technology standpoint is really incredible.

48:07 Okay, so let's let's stay on the AI topic for a moment. So, AI obviously has you know, changed the entire view of the semiconductor industry I think and it's it's an exciting time. I mean, I always say that there's there's people that probably would have retired 2 or 3 years ago and no one wants to leave. Everybody wants to be part of the AI revolution because it's so exciting from technology perspective. So, by 2030, what does our I mean, that's only now 4 years away. So, what does our daily life look like? I mean, you talked a lot about you know, what what 6G will bring, but you know, enterprises are are wanting to know what the return on investment is. So, talk maybe a little bit about that. And then our individual lives, when do we have something besides just putting a question into chat GPT?

48:58 Okay. I'm going to give you two answers to this question. I think one answer I'm going to probably give the answer you would expect from a CEO of a tech company that is that is doing a lot of you know, computing and connectivity technology that has a lot to do with AI. Then I'm going to give you my own personal answer on this. How I feel about this, right or wrong, right? So, I think the first answer is it's AI is a new form of doing computing. I think it's it's a new way it's a new way of doing software. It's going to with that it's changing you know, dramatically the way you think about what is the job or how you create software, how software is run, how the computing is done. And it's going to change a lot of architecture. We're just the beginning of of inference at scale.

49:45 It's going to happen everywhere. There's, I think there's kind of a useless debate that people have about what is the cloud, what's in the edge. It's It's interesting. I look at your phone today. Your phone has incredible amount of computing technologies. And if you put in airplane mode, it's kind of, you don't want to use it. And that's because it's 100% cloud and it's 100% device. The software will find its most efficient computing and and everything will be running inference.

50:13 It's going to be doing on the data center, it's going to be doing on the near edge, it's going to be doing on prem, it's going to do it on devices. So, there's going to be how we're going to be thinking about applications. I believe you're going to start into 2026, it's going to be the year of agents. Agents going to become more popular. When agents become more popular, you will start it to see the real usability of AI. Yes, we can all go to a chat box, we can ask questions, we can create memes, we can create images, but, you know, agents are going to be fundamentally changing the whole concept of an app. You started to see things open claw is an example that shows what's possible.

50:52 And we will see in 2026 the beginning of agents getting traction. It's going to get more traction. So, when it gets to 2030, it's going to be, a big percentage of of the work loads of how you're going to be interacting with your PC, with your phone, with different types of devices that we just talked about it. It's going to be very natural for you, to to have agents when you're kind of, in your car because voice is a natural, voice and vision is a natural way for interact with devices. And on the on the enterprise size, you're going to see a lot more, AI capability embedded in workflows, embedded in tools. So, it's going to be by 2030 very mature. I do believe that AI on the long run is probably, underestimated. I think it's probably, under hyped. In the beginning, we all debate about what are the speed of investment, the speed of deployment, but it's just, you know, if you just give it enough time, you're going to find where it's really useful. You're going to see the real innovation and creation is going to come, how people are going to apply those agents to workflows that are meaningful. And it's going to get scale.

52:12 So, I look at 2030 as we're going to have a a new set of, mobile devices as we talked about it, which is going to be using AI as the main, interface between the man and machine. It's going to have a lot of agents. That's going to have an impact on the rest of devices the consumer utilizes. And I going to see enterprises having large scale AI deployment to the workflows. We really don't know what they are. I think now we see coding, you see, different functions get automated. But, you know, as agents starts to get popular, you're going to have, you're going to have a scenario that you're going to find out what are the winners and the losers are. None of it is decided. You always go back into 2000 and say, "Oh, yeah, MapQuest is the map that's going to win." nobody knows.

53:02 So, but I think for sure is going to be a very mature, I think, you know, scale for AI and it's going to change everything that we think about computers and computing, connectivity, and and of course semi as a result. Now, I'm going to give you my personal answer. >> Okay. When I came out of college and I was kind of in college, you know, we used PCs, we used, you know, spice, we used, computer aided design. And I got, and I got, to my first job and I realized in in the job, you have the mix.

53:44 You have the mix of the new and the old. For example, I remember I'll come in in the in the office and they still have to go to the fax machine and get all the faxes that came in overnight and they have like a fax that you needed to respond. And then, while you could go to the computer and type in an interoffice memo, you can always get like a notepad. This is particularly true, you know, for Japanese companies because of the Japanese handwriting. And you kind of write an intercompany memo, put it back in the fax machine. Right.

54:18 And then, one day, everybody has a computer, you have a email, you have internet, and was insane. It's the whole thing changed. Now, we take it for granted. I look at AI the same way. It's like a tool. So, a lot of people say, "Oh, you know, what's going to happen? It's going to be It's going to be, you know, the machine's going to take over, every job's going to get eliminated." I don't know. I think like everything, there will be an impact.

54:45 But, we have seen this before. I think, you know, just just remember, I think, what computer aided design did with people that actually going to do, you know, the design with pen and, you know, and you have a artists that, they were doing a lot of the circuits and a lot of the, you know, civil construction diagrams. Today is all computer, made. So, the same type of change that you saw in the enterprise when all of a sudden you have email, internet, and a bunch of other things, that is the type of change. And, you know, companies are going to adapt. And they and you're going to see it's going to change the way people work, it's going to change the workflows, new things going to be invented. And I I think that's the history of technology. So, that's how I feel about it.

55:29 So, what what concerns you the most from like a human perspective about the next 5 years? look, it's a difficult question for me to answer. Look, I'm, I'm a very religious person. I'm I'm, Catholic. So, I I I always worried about, you know, that and how I am as a human being. Not only the next 5 years, like today and tomorrow and, the next 5 years, the next 10 years. And I think that's, and that especially, I think, those that be giving a lot of responsibility and then make sure, you know, you're doing the right thing with it.

56:03 Now, the other part of the answer is Look, the world's complicated place right now and, so I think a lot of it's when you ask me a lot what's going to happen in 5 years, there's a lot happening like this month and the next 6 months and the next year. But, I think from a technology standpoint, we at Qualcomm, we like change. Look, I I'm going to say this at the risk of being a little bit controvers- controversial, but if you look of what happened in mobile, and the mobile industry is a great example of that. And I I know you when I talk about all the way back to 2G.

56:42 The history of the mobile industry is many many companies. They went from zero to hero and then they went from hero to zero. But, we survived. We survived. There's one thing common, there's some companies like Qualcomm that survived and remained relevant, with a companies that came and went. And I think technology changes, big changes, big shifts, those things has proven very good for Qualcomm. We thrive in chaos, in in technology, transition. So, I'm actually looking the next 5 years because of that with, great set of optimism. Okay.

57:24 Okay, so, you know, you have a you have a very very intense job. I mean, I think that, you know, I mean, I'm biased, but I think that the semiconductor industry is like one of the most intense industries in the world. every CEO I know is sort of 24/7, you're always on. So, how does one really run a company and and have a meaningful life, have the family that's so important to you, the hobbies, the religion? So, how do you do all of that? And and what's sort of your advice to people that are starting their careers? And some people like deciding not to have children because they don't want to have to make those kinds of decisions.

58:01 >> >> Yes, so first I'm going to say the same thing I told you about being born in Brazil, I'll say about semiconductor. Semiconductor is not for beginners. So, I think, I I share the same bias. It's not easy industry. It's, it's a very complicated industry. It's a complicate not only it's complex, but you also have an industry that change. You have to adapt to change. You were You were in the middle of a geopolitical, industry as well. So, it's not very easy.

58:29 The second part of the the answer to the question is it's very difficult because you always have to, you you always have to make choices and you make and you want not to compromise those choices, but you always, like when I look at me, I'm I'm I'm always running because I have I have to take care of my family, I have to spend time with my kids, I have I have to I have to go, you know, take care of myself, I have to spend time with church, we have to spend time with my employees, I have to spend time with customers. So, I was running.

58:58 So, I tried to do a good job with this. I don't know if I do a good job with this. I I I always have, less time than I than I would than I would need. I think that's one of the biggest issue that you have as a CEO, time is the most, I think, valuable resource. But, I'm But, I face all of this with always a very positive attitude. Like I have an attitude that it's going to work out.

59:22 I'm going to find time for everything. And, don't make those big choices about, let's not do this. So, like I'll I'll try to balance. Sometimes you know, sometimes I'm tired and I want to go to bed, but my kids want to watch a movie. I'll watch a movie. I'll figure it out. I'll I'll figure out some other time to sleep. And you just keep I'm just like that. I just keep keep moving, keep pushing, and assume it's going to work out at the end. And at the end of the day, how do how do you want to be remembered as not only in in your professional life, but in your personal life? How do you want, you know, your biography to read?

59:59 Look, I don't I don't think about those things. Frankly, I feel like I like I try I try very very hard to just to be who I am. Like to be the same person I've been. I like I don't have any ambition of of people to kind of think about it like this is what this is what he accomplished. Like I said, I'm I've been a religious person and Catholic. I think, you know, I'm more I'm more important where you know, to make sure I do everything to go up there.

60:35 That's more important than my my my biography. But I do I do want it to probably be remembered. I want to make sure that I did everything I could to be a good dad, to be, you know, to take care of my family, and to be a good steward of Qualcomm, because that's actually more important for me. The reason I come to this job every day motivated, energized it's actually because of the people of this company.

61:01 It's about what, you know, the culture that this company has, and the fact that I have a lot of people here that I I work very hard not to disappoint, and and to to make sure I'm doing my part. And and I think that's that's my mission. Okay. Well, this was fun. I hope you had as much fun as I did, and I learned a lot about you. And I think that the again, one of the goals behind doing this podcast was get to know people, and I think that we have. And people are going to know that you have a great character, that you care very much, and some of the thinking behind the technology. So, >> Oh, thank you. Thank you. Very kind of you. Thank you so much.

61:41 I had fun having this conversation with you. >>