# “Your Haircut Looks Crazy!” and Other Not-So-Nice Comments **Creator:** Good Inside **Platform:** youtube **Duration:** 41m **Source:** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms ## Summary The podcast episode features Dr. Becky and Eve Rodsky discussing modern parenting challenges and the societal pressures that often place the burden of unpaid domestic work on women. They explore the importance of self-care, the need for equitable partnerships in parenting, and the concept of "unicorn space"—a space for personal interests and passions outside of parenting responsibilities. - Many parents still seek advice from strangers online due to a lack of reliable resources. - The Good Inside Membership offers expert guidance and community support for parents. - Women often shoulder the majority of unpaid domestic work, leading to feelings of guilt and resentment. - The concept of "unicorn space" encourages individuals to pursue personal interests and passions. - It's essential to recognize that both partners can share responsibilities to foster equity in parenting. - Guilt can be reframed as a choice, allowing for better self-care and personal time. - Communication and clear expectations in partnerships can reduce conflict and improve relationships. - Eve Rodsky's books, "Fair Play" and "Find Your Unicorn Space," provide practical frameworks for navigating these issues. ## Transcript [[0:00]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=0s) why is it so hard to find reliable answers to parenting questions how is it in 2022 parents still search on google for answers from strangers well now there's a better way introducing the good inside membership an expert guided community-powered platform redefining modern parenting in our library you'll find hundreds of bite-sized videos articles scripts and workshops tackling the trickiest parenting topics and it doesn't stop [[0:33]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=33s) here we've created a private community guided by me dr becky and coaches trained in the good inside parenting method here you can ask questions connect with other parents or attend a live event on a topic that matters to you this is the parenting handbook that doesn't exist this is parenting advice at your fingertips where you need it when you need it the most this is good inside membership hi i'm dr becky and this is good inside [[1:07]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=67s) i'm a clinical psychologist and mom of three on a mission to rethink the way we raise our children [Music] i love translating deep thoughts about parenting into practical actionable strategies that you can use in your home right away one of my core beliefs is that we are all doing the best we can with the resources we have available to us in that moment so even as we struggle and even as we are having a hard time on [[1:38]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=98s) the outside we remain good inside [Music] eve rodsky is on the pod today and i couldn't be more excited eve is an expert in family mediation and organizational management and she's the best-selling author of fair play and find your unicorn space eve is working to change society one partnership at a time by coming up with [[2:08]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=128s) a 21st century solution to an age-old problem women shouldering two-thirds or more of the unpaid domestic work and child care for their homes and families in today's episode eve and i talk about so many hot topics carving out space for ourselves managing guilt where resentment and rage come from and the manageable steps we can all take to feel better inside and feel more present [[2:38]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=158s) in our relationships with all that in mind let's jump in [Music] hi eve hi becky so good to see you this is the best i am so excited to be talking with you again and really excited to dive in so we're going to talk about so many important topics today but i'd love to hear kind of what's most on your mind [[3:08]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=188s) the thing that's been keeping me up at night is the statistic that 70 of the 1 in this country right the people that make our policies in government and in our corporations are white men with state-home wives and so what's keeping me up at night is just as people are starting to navigate back to in-office work and just how not normal quote unquote the world still is especially for parents and caregivers i'm seeing a huge disconnect between [[3:41]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=221s) what people want in terms of their workers and what workers uh are telling me um they can give because they also need to be caregivers so i'd say that's that's the thing that's keeping me up at night tell me a little bit more about that let's jump into some specifics about whether it's people's stories or what you're seeing even around you or hearing in terms of this disconnect i'd love to hear a little bit more about that yeah i [[4:05]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=245s) think what's happening is that so many women i'll give you a little story i remember when i was in i got to go to davos which was actually really amazing right before the pandemic to talk about uh the fact that i had been doing research for 10 years which started with my own marriage and to the fact that um i did not have the career marriage combo i thought i was going to have right and i was losing my identity in my marriage [[4:32]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=272s) and i was watching so many powerful women not being able to use their voice in the home and so over 10 years as i started to research these issues around what is called the gender division of labor um definitely did not in my third grade science project or am i like what do you want to be when you grow up journal uh becky didn't did not think being a gender division of labor advocate was on my list of things i wanted to do with my [[4:56]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=296s) life but that's where i found myself in davos in 2019 and i just written fair play and i was trying to convince a room of executives that flexibility that parenting out loud that's centering a care the caregiver the humanity in us is actually really important for the workplace because half of our population was going to drop out if we had one more crisis and i remember uh one man said to me well what can we do i said just be the [[5:24]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=324s) bbc dad i want to see you on zooms being um or whatever it was back then you know on camera being interrupted by your kids and a walker and not pushing them out of the room and hiding them but parenting out loud um not making your workers have to hide when they have to go take their kids to a doctor's appointment just understand that our humanity is in our caregiving and so i said i wish for [[5:46]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=346s) you that you will all become the bbc dad and then ironically right we have a month later we're all the bbc dad we're all you know of course there's essential workers who can afford the privilege of being home but over 20 million workers were in their homes and so i think a lot about what i saw on those parents before including myself especially women we hold two thirds or more of what it takes to run a home and [[6:12]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=372s) family that was the statistic i was undeniably living for 10 years before i even understood that it was happening to me i was the default parent for literally every single household and domestic task for my family i call that the shefalt parent and so i think it is understanding that even before the pandemic what i saw in thousands of interviews now i'm i'm into the tens of thousands of interviews was just the physical toll of being told our whole lives that [[6:40]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=400s) having it all means doing it all and watching women and myself not only lose our identity but lose our mental health our physical health to this idea of not believing that we have a permission to be unavailable from our roles so that was the number one thing women told me that was holding them back in their life that they didn't believe they had a permission to be unavailable from their roles as a parent a partner and a professional but what you're [[7:03]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=423s) saying is so many of the women that you've talked to feel like i i can't take that extra space for myself is that what you're saying and i know correct and i love your term you'll correct me if you would say it differently this like unicorn space this idea of like i can step out of my role as a parent not just to do something quote productive or to take the trash out or to pay taxes but but for [[7:32]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=452s) something else right 100 and i think that is something i think about all the time because again the same way i didn't want to be a gender division of labor specialist i did not think i'd be writing or thinking about women's collective identity um especially in america but i'll tell you about this breast cancer march i was on that i write about in fair play because it sort of gets at the heart of what we're talking about here it was [[7:57]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=477s) nine women uh i was with them we were honoring a friend who had been diagnosed this was ten years ago uh 2011 or 2012. and they all look like you right i mean they were smart not look like you physically but like they all they all were like you and that they were very powerful in their own right um they were using their voices uh for the greater good in many cases there was an oscar winning producer there and [[8:23]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=503s) ceo of a non-profit and it's just really really wonderful morning i remember we were all covered in like pink glitter and we were sort of marching and we were about to have lunch in downtown l.a and what happened to us was this was after i was already becoming aware in my own marriage that things were starting to feel really unfair after my second son ben was born which was exactly around the same time but at this march [[8:48]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=528s) around noon we literally became like the reverse of cinderella i don't know maybe pumpkins we turn into pumpkins or we we started getting inundated with phone calls and texts from our partners all of us except for one was married as married to a man um with things like i'm done right i'm done it was noon already like when are you coming home where's hudson's soccer bag uh where'd you leave me the gift and what's the address of the birthday party my [[9:15]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=555s) favorite was my friend kate's husband who texted her do the kids need to eat lunch that was a good one but um what disturbed me the most about that day i think was just and again this was pre-consciousness right this is before i knew that this was happening to me obviously this is way before fair play but what i was recognizing was the the shocking thing was that not one of the other women said to me okay let's just go to [[9:41]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=581s) our lunch and shut off our phones every single one of those women said to me i left my partner with too much to do and they literally ran they ran home to find hudson's soccer bag to bring a perfectly wrapped gift to a birthday party and to feed their kids lunch and that day the the my act of resistance that day because i started to resist this i was like i don't want to live like this [[10:03]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=603s) anymore and this gets to what we're going to talk about how you can be a game changer in your own life in your own marriage even in the midst of messed up systems like we started the podcast with but it was asking these women okay if you're not if you're going to like ghost me for lunch then at least help me count up how many phone calls and texts we've received and we had 30 phone calls and 46 texts [[10:27]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=627s) for 10 women over 30 minutes and that's the day when i realized that this you know private lives are public issues that the home is super dangerous becky because it you know we think we're fighting over um hudson's soccer bag but ultimately this is about years and years and lifetimes of society building itself our foundation of our house of of the house of our society has been built on the unpaid labor of women and when we uh outsource quote [[10:58]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=658s) unquote that was always a very sort of white feminist thing to say well i can if you outsource but then it's the undervalued labor of women of color so i keep coming back to the bigger issues too because while i was learning about this in my marriage and feeling such rage and resentment over the fact that seth was texting me that day asking me where my kids pants were to get them out of the house and such rage at kate's [[11:21]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=681s) husband for asking if her kids need to eat lunch really what was happening was to me it was that my eyes were opening to the fact that we can no longer live this way where women are the default the she fault for literally every single household and domestic task in addition to launching a new business as dr kennedy is doing here in addition to uh being a breadwinner in many households for their families so that's the the full circle that's the [[11:49]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=709s) story that sort of started me on this journey to understanding that when you can start changing the dynamics in every individual marriage you're also changing the politics and assumptions of our society okay here's something i'm thinking about bringing together the larger sociological patterns with some individual psychological patterns it makes me think about what happens to us as women when we get a text about our partner's discomfort in child caring yeah yeah my partner's [[12:21]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=741s) taking care of the kids i'm at a breast cancer walk or something that even seems less noble my partner is taking the kids and i am getting a manicure or i am sleeping in right i am not doing good i'm not walking for i'm just doing something for myself because that's the baseline and i get the text of where's hudson's soccer bag or uh you didn't leave me the right food for lunch maybe my partner knows that [[12:46]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=766s) they should have lunch but then right what happens for me on an individual level and one of the things i see in women over and over and over is that my partner's distress becomes my guilt but what happens where my partner is uncomfortable taking care of my kid the two kids figuring out lunch okay and and my partner's mail i know your partner's mouth i'm going to say him for now cause that's our lives he's uncomfortable [[13:14]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=794s) i was doing something that i found enjoyable and all of a sudden his distress becomes my guilt and then i'm going back to that story of what happened on the breast cancer walk that guilt now motivates me to change my behavior to assuage my guilt but really now i'm doing something i'm going back home to make my kids lunch to take care of my partner's discomfort there's so many transfers of emotion history and then the rage i love that you always talk [[13:42]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=822s) about how that ends up leading to that resentment leads to rage right it's that circle 100 because when we take on other people's feelings in that way and then also take on actions and change to take care of someone else's feelings our body knows we're not really doing that for us our body knows we just missed out on something else right and in the short term we can manage our guilt right but in the long term the resentment builds up and [[14:13]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=853s) it just is gonna take one tiny thing for the entire vat of resentment to come out and you know exactly look like rage and then in those moments it's like whoa why why are you so emotional about this little thing right and really it's the last number of things or like it's the last is the hundreds of years of this right that's been inherited absolutely i'll add so that's your the witch's cauldron so we'll call that sort of the [[14:43]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=883s) um the cauldron that you just built which is so beautiful and that analogy is so beautiful and again why do i love talking to you is because i think the combination of sociology and the individual psychology the way you break it down is so impactful because it allows us to recognize um when we're complicit in our own oppression and where also what we can do about it but the last thing i'll add to that which is cauldron is just we have [[15:09]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=909s) an identity before that we can remember so to me the the witch's cauldron after all that rage and resentment is also remembering that at one point in my life there was a spark and fire in me that was about me um i and i talked i was on this um amazing uh author talk with a author named rachel yoder who wrote a book called night and you would love this because you could really analyze her kafka [[15:35]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=935s) way of um writing about her identity loss but in in her book it's a fictionalized book of a woman who turns into a dog because of her anger and resentment over her choices of becoming what i call an accidental traditionalist but um a stay-at-home mom due to the choices of her of her life and so it's so fascinating because we both were talking about the fact that to become a night again you have to remember the spark inside of you like she was [[16:04]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=964s) saying when she was 17 she could do anything yes and i think we can all ask ourselves where is she when's the last time she came out when and where and how did she learn that it was really dangerous to keep being seen where were those lessons and where can i make contact with her now because for everyone listening and i do think there's people listening who would say yeah i don't know if i ever really knew [[16:33]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=993s) that girl like right from the start i was the good complicit what do people want of me child but what i know and what i think about so often with all the different people i've even worked with in the therapy setting who i've gotten to know in such deep ways that part of us it's there for everybody because that part is the most in touch with our individual wants for ourselves it's been named as selfish by other people that is [[16:59]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=1019s) a gaslighting term i mean it's a part that has access to self which is like not the same thing as selfish that's good that's pretty solid right like access to self that seems like life sustaining but actually all this talk about self about access to our wants and needs and creativity eve this really makes me think about your term unicorn space what is unicorn space it is the answer to this question which is going to still [[17:29]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=1049s) sound a little bit esoteric and then we'll break it down it's the answer to the question what makes you you and how you share that with the world it is what are you curious about what community do you have to share that with and how do you complete something the curiosity many women do have curiosities many women do have communities that they feel that they could share with but a lot of times we get stuck in the [[17:54]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=1074s) completion phase because of perfection i'm sure you have lots of things to say about that but that completion phase of not living in unfulfilled dreams but if you have a curiosity if you have a community a connection to somebody externally and then you have some completion that's all you really need and it doesn't have to be hard it could be literally making one pottery wheel and like color me mine with your child it could be learning your old piano song one more [[18:21]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=1101s) time for me i start to dance again at the end of the day it requires you to believe that you have permission to be unavailable from your roles to carve out that time and the last thing i will say is not soul cycle self-care is important but what we see in you pneumonia you demonic well-being which is what this is about that's linked to mental health and longevity um it's not the personal pursuits it's the sharing with the world christina [[18:46]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=1126s) tosie you know of milk bar i was watching her in a documentary and i was like yes she has it because she said the first thing that made her want to bake was not how good her cake was it was what it felt like to share it with a neighbor um you know people give me all types of feedback on my instagram or you know now i run to people on the street and you know what feels [[19:08]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=1148s) best to me this is totally true is when people say you know maybe i read something like here's what happened in my home or here's what that felt like to me versus comments that are more like oh dr becky you're you're amazing or that's such a smart idea and to watch us put things out there and then watch what that does watch watch impact or watch someone else access something in them is just it's the most amazing feeling in the [[19:36]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=1176s) world and that that really that that's definitely one of the things that drives me in my unicorn space the other thing i think it relates to maybe what you're saying for so many women that the hardest part is the completion like okay this is this is gonna put it out there is the idea of am i looking for someone to give me approval or good enoughness or am i in touch with or learning to be in touch [[20:02]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=1202s) with the feeling of like this lights me up when i talk about parenting ideas it lights me up i i don't even really notice how people react like it's a icing on the cake if they're like that was a great talk but it's just icing on the cake i kind of know inside me like that felt greater oh that part needs tweaking that didn't feel as great and it makes me think about how often women are raised to gaze [[20:29]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=1229s) out first what does everybody think and we really have to build the muscle of gazing in what do what do i think meaning really it's not really so much about thoughts but what does this feel like to me that flow state that oh i'm creating something this is fun this is creative and i really feel like that feeling is maybe one of the things you're talking about when you're in that feeling you might be in that unicorn space that could be its [[20:55]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=1255s) own guide you said it lights you up yes that's that that's that girl that's your girl again you may not have known her earlier i don't know how you were raised but for me when i was that that lighting up again is my connection to my past it's my own transitional object i wear a a ring that reminds me of my grandmother and she never sold a diamond ring that she took with her through the depression and i wear it as my [[21:20]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=1280s) transitional object to her and the women behind me but my transitional object back to myself is exactly that feeling it's recognizing that i remember what it felt like to be in a flow state and to say that you know what i'm going to keep doing this even though i may not be as good of a dancer i can't turn on my left foot because i have a bunion a bone spur like a million calluses but i i signed [[21:41]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=1301s) up for a dance class again it was outdoors like i could follow the choreography like i was so proud of myself and so it's that i may not be the same as i was at 17 but i feel that light and you're right it is called the flow state the flow state is a very interesting topic for me because flow has often been written just by white men and i know that there's a reason for that because the flow state men [[22:04]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=1324s) who i love and who have taken on flow state to continue to the present are people that have that date that also say things like you just need two uninterrupted days of for deep work and not that i don't love that idea but in our society when women are interrupted every three minutes and 42 seconds the advice of a pale and male man to tell me i need to take two days for uninterrupted attention to my work a [[22:30]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=1350s) week feels highly privileged and i will say that i've been doing some research and i spoke to anne-marie slaughter about this in her new book she talks about the fact that all these philosophers like emerson and walden pond and contemplating with nature it turns out that their wives and mothers were bringing them food in the woods they were bringing them food in the woods so i think the more realistic thing that dr kennedy and i are talking about here [[22:58]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=1378s) is the idea that we deserve a permission to be available we know society is not giving us that easier we're here to be a community for you to say you deserve it and that whatever it is that light inside of you it deserves not to be burned out a couple questions because i hear especially some women's questions in my head i don't make money and i feel like my partner would say to me oh you need [[23:22]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=1402s) time kind of to yourself like what like isn't that what you get all day or isn't that what you get when the kids are in preschool that was a very big part of the resistance to my work fair play it was this idea that i make my wife's life like what does she have to complain about what does she do all day if you're so overwhelmed just get help right all these messages that are actually really gaslighting because what [[23:46]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=1426s) they do is they perpetuate a stereotype that women's time is infinite like sand um and men's time is finite like diamonds so what do i mean by that practically what that means is that if we're a society that doesn't value women's time we're going to do things like when women enter male profession salaries will automatically come down which always happens throughout history if women enter a male profession salaries automatically go down we we will say things to women in our [[24:17]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=1457s) society such things as breastfeeding is free when literally it's 1800 hours of our time it's an actual full-time job but i think the hardest part was what we hear about our time ourselves right the what did you do all day um you do all these unnecessary things you could free up your time if you stop doing unnecessary things i make your life i'm the one who puts a roof over our head um then we start internalizing it and we can become [[24:44]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=1484s) complicit in our own oppression and i know this from the sociology and you can probably analyze this a lot from internally but we start saying things to ourselves like well of course i should do it because my husband makes more money than me or my partner makes more money than me this happens in lgbtqia relationships as well or you say things like uh and the time it takes me to tell him her were they what to do i should do [[25:05]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=1505s) it myself or you start saying things you rationalized yourself well i'm just a better multitasker i'm wired differently for this task or you say yeah we're both colorectal surgeons but i should just handle the school forms because my partner's better at doing one thing at a time and i can find the time and so if you keep saying you can find the time you can find the time right we have to recognize we're not albert einstein we can't find time we can't [[25:29]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=1529s) with the space time continuum we have limited time 24 hours in a day and the unpaid labor what we often call chores and housework but i call our humanity those are a full-time job your partner does not make your life by putting a roof over your head you make their lives by having a family for why they would even put a roof over their head in the first place it is just a different way to view and [[25:51]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=1551s) value women's time if we start to protect and guard our time then society starts changing so we people get scared of that message but we can do that individually um and so yes so what i like to say is all those messages if you say them to yourselves of course yes you will probably end up doing more unpaid labor in your home if your partner works outside the home but you have to insist that you don't do it all [[26:14]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=1574s) because that is more than a full-time job we know the time diaries it is more than 24 hours in a day you actually don't have it and so it ends up leading to is multitasking stress forgetfulness not having any time for yourself and then guilt and shame over your partner looking at you and saying what is wrong with you like why are you so stressed and then on top of that god forbid you decide you want to leave [[26:38]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=1598s) your relationship and that person leaves with their degree their job and then you're there what begging for alimony the dynamics and our culture are really messed up so what i'm here to say is you can start so small by just saying you know what my time is diamonds for me becky and my own household i had so much rage and resentment i write about that in fair play over seth i was just raging and raging at him until i finally had that [[27:02]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=1622s) aha moment that oh my god when seth has four hours after our kids go to bed to watch sportscenter you know i'm like oh wow he has four hours to check powerpoint to uh work on his career to work out to watch some sports center whereas literally literally i'm doing things in service of our household until my head hits the pillow after midnight so much so that i would start banging around because i was doing things and he's like you're making too [[27:29]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=1649s) much noise at night and so when i realized that oh my god this is an issue around time choice i get 24 hours in a day just like seth does and i deserve equal type choice as much time choice over how i use my day as my husband has that was a huge aha moment for me so that's a long answer to say that the unlearning is why you're here that's exactly right so i'm gonna ask you [[27:53]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=1673s) for people listening where do you tell people or like the first couple places they can start what is after someone listens to this and they feel inspired which i think they will what what are a couple things people can do to start you know feeling more in touch with themselves lighting themselves up the first thing i would ask is what's the hurdle then and all i can tell you are what the most common three were for for women at least i interviewed men [[28:19]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=1699s) as well and non-binary individuals but for women it was so i'd ask you to say you know is do i feel like most connected to the boundary issue of domestic encroachment meaning like i sit down for my piano lesson and it's 2 40 and i'm like ah yes grandma's picking up but i might as well go pick up my kids right that's a domestic encroachment that's a boundaries breach are you feeling that the guilt and shame [[28:45]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=1725s) like we said earlier those feelings are coming up from our past so you're like set you know your 20 year old self or that helped you is now hurting you or is it that you um don't believe you have a permission to ask for what you need i think i would i would look at that because then literally you just book it with someone else you can book your dance time it helps a lot for those women to book [[29:08]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=1748s) something with somebody else have accountability partner a success partner that helps it goes from 65 to 95 completion if you have a success partner like that so becky you and i are going to write together in a cafe i can't disappoint becky by showing up so then i get to transfer my guilt to somebody else but at least it's still there but at least it's for mice i know you're my accountability partner if it's a guilt and shame issue one quick thing [[29:32]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=1772s) that i started to do and this came from dr cheryl gonzalez ziegler a friend of mine who years ago helped me reframe guilt by saying i feel guilty i didn't put out of bed she just said you know what you're going to start saying i made the choice not to put adam to bed because i love that i just want to like highlight that for everyone right oh i feel so guilty that i went out to dinner with my friends and my [[29:56]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=1796s) daughter ended up having such a hard night when my partner put my daughter that's the guilt interpretation and and really there's such powers like oh hi gail you're going to be with me a while so hi just write all the lists you have probably a long list of things you feel guilty about this is one okay keep going other side is being a little more in touch with myself i made the choice i made the choice to go out dinner with my [[30:15]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=1815s) friends i don't know about for you eve but i love layering because i've taken that i've heard that from you and i love that i made the choice to go out to dinner with my friends and almost always we can add and i'm allowed to make decisions that prioritize my self like giving yourself that active permission i love that i'm putting i'm putting you on you're going on my post-it wall which is a big deal and i love that layering because i think [[30:38]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=1838s) what the other beautiful thing you always do that i notice is and my mother does this so that's why i'm very attuned to what you do she does it as a social worker but you frame either or decisions to both and it's such a powerful thing that you do i see it all the time that it's okay for me to live with my guilt and i can still go out to dinner yes i love i love how you [[30:58]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=1858s) do that and i think it's very very powerful for your listeners and it's why i you know i'm obsessed with your work well and likewise what else can people do and can you give me something give us all something where i know i want my partner to do more i know i know of the 100 tasks you break down in fair play and if you're listening and you haven't read eve's first book fair play i really mean this [[31:20]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=1880s) and anybody listening to this podcast will know i'm not one to just like promote a million products like i've actually read your book a million times and it is so practical and i hear about it from people in my practice all the time who said wow this has been so useful such a great system right so there's a hundred tasks you break down i feel like i do i do a hundred i feel like i'm in charge of a [[31:42]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=1902s) hundred i'm in charge of whatever the number is it doesn't have to be a hundred it's i'm breaking down i know you would even say eve don't go show your partner that list a step one and say heaven you're a bad person something right like take 50. i need you to say i need you but what i'm doing now is unsustainable where can i start well i'll tell you what the science has showed me right what my data has showed me um this is [[32:05]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=1925s) qualitative research now um and all i can tell you i have thousands of touch points so the two things where people start are two different ways so step one and they're not in order these are almost like different choices the way people start step one people start with the realization that their home is their most important organization so especially for men and women opposite sex relationships this idea that that question what if we treated our home as our most important organization [[32:33]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=1953s) what if we centered our home first not our workplaces how would look different so a lot of people start to think that way and just ask their partner that question when emotion is low cognition is high how would things look different well oh you know one couple did that and they were like they laughed at me and they said well we wouldn't be waiting to to decide who's taking the dog out right when it's about to take a piss on the [[32:53]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=1973s) rug right we wouldn't be deciding who's setting the table when we're already hangry and cranky so this idea that we collapse under decision fatigue because we make the same decision over and over again if you take and invest in the time to decide in advance then you don't have to keep making the same decision over and over again and that's just organizational management 101 you want to move to efficiency so that is one piece of it this idea that and there's a [[33:20]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=2000s) very dangerous word that as an organizational manager i used to hear when i would ask the early days of fair play when i started to make the should i do spreadsheet that became the fair play system but when it was just still a list and we know list alone don't work we just told you that but i would say like who's in charge of bathing and grooming the kids and i'd hear we both do it who's in charge of travel we both do it [[33:43]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=2023s) who's in charge of hosting we both do it and i was like oh my god this is like organizational management nightmare you never want to hear both you want to hear clearly delineated expectations and roles because that's how you get to the most important thing an organization can ever have and that's accountability and trust and so if you're saying we both do these things what we have to recognize is that typically that means and let's do one [[34:05]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=2045s) for groceries that you're the one serving you know your household for what they need you notice that johnny likes yellow mustard otherwise he chokes with his protein you're getting stakeholder buy-in for what your family needs for the week you monitor that mustard for when it's low and then you ultimately you then you send your partner to the store to go get that mustard well they're going to bring home spicy dijon right not the yellow and then you're [[34:27]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=2067s) going to tell me well i can't trust my partner with my living will because he can't even bring home the right type of mustard so so that organizational failure this flip side is the ownership mindset to understand start where you are now but to say when somebody does something okay you know what we're gonna host tonight i'll keep you involved in the planning but you know what i'm not going to yell at you when you don't put the music up higher like [[34:51]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=2091s) i'm in charge of this party um and and you'll do the next one right it's this idea that you can you can you don't have to be the dishes doer forever but if you're gonna don't sit there at the sink together um just say you know what it's your turn tonight from the secret oils and the drawer as my son says all the way to putting them away start to finish that's how we do things in the workplace that's it the last [[35:14]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=2114s) thing i will say if the ownership mindset is not where you are yet the other thing people have started with is just the idea of a 10-minute a night check-in where they bring short-term reward substitution like ice cream or alcohol and they just start a practice of investing in their relationship and their communication like they do exercise lesson exercise 10 minutes set a timer you can come to to this practice either way through the ownership mindset or [[35:41]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=2141s) through the communication check-in i think that both those such great actionable ideas and the only thing i want to maybe layer on top of that is one of the things i hear over and over from couples i work with is this classic fight that happens and especially happens when people have kids which is uh i do everything around here on one side and the other side is whenever i do something i'm not doing it right right [[36:04]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=2164s) or right so it's i do everything and yeah i i have to nag you i have to tell you to do things because you don't do things on your own and well i don't do so many things because whenever i do it i get it wrong and right and the way i see that intersecting with what you're saying is we can talk to our partners about neither of us wanna have that fight it doesn't feel good to [[36:25]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=2185s) either of us right in couples language we both keep getting on the dance floor and doing that dance neither of us want to do that dance but it's like we keep doing it together it's not good for you it's not good for me and it's not good for our marriage it's not good for anyone and actually one of the ways around that is to think about just different things let's just forget forever just today that we have to do and just say right we [[36:49]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=2209s) each can own the entire arc and i'm going to use your language right which is like the conception the planning and the execution because the only time the hey did you do this oh i can never do anything right really comes up is when we've split those different tasks that's right and it's i just imagine like say you came in right and i said you said eve can you host my podcast today well i'm just letting you know that my [[37:16]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=2236s) my heart's pounding um i don't know what to do i have no context i just feel like um there i have no it would not work for me and and again that's why fair play became a love letter to men because i know that workplace when someone just tells you to do that with zero context um it leads to mistakes it leads to you saying oh my god what what the why were you talking to people about [[37:41]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=2261s) uh groceries and trash today like we were supposed to be talking to people about relationships well because it relates you know then i have to like justify myself and why i made those decisions it's just not the dance we want to get into i think that's exactly right well you and i have so many more conversations we need to have so this is kind of one part of many thank you so much for being here your work is so [[38:04]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=2284s) important i've seen it help so many people i know it's going to help so many more people so thank you for sharing with all of us what lights you up i can tell you it has very much impacted me and my family and i can't wait for the next time we get to speak thanks eve bye [Music] eve and i talked about so many important topics here are the three things i'll be continuing to think about after this [[38:34]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=2314s) episode one the phrase i can make time for that let's realize we don't make time if we prioritize time for something we have less time for other things think about who and what you make time for see if you are on that list if your unicorn space is included as eve said remember that your time is diamonds two remember that two things can be true you can feel guilty and you [[39:05]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=2345s) can take care of your own needs you can feel uncomfortable and speak up to your partner you can care about your kids and care about yourself when you feel like you have to choose one thing or another take a deep breath and find a framework where two things can be true three check out eve's books i'm saying this from me to you there is no sponsorship no kickbacks here fair play and find your unicorn space are books you will read over and over [[39:33]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=2373s) again eve puts words to our experience and gives us frameworks and strategies to feel less resentful more satisfied more lit up inside thanks for listening to good inside there are so many more strategies and tips i want to share with you head to goodinside.com and sign up for good insider my free weekly email with scripts and strategies delivered right to your inbox and follow me on instagram and facebook [[40:05]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=2405s) at dr becky at goodinside for a daily dose of parenting and self-care ideas good inside with dr becky is produced by beth rowe and marie cecile anderson an executive produced by erica belski and me dr becky if you enjoyed this episode please take a moment to rate and review it or share this episode with a friend or family member as a way to start an important conversation let's end by placing our hands on our [[40:37]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=2437s) hearts and reminding ourselves even as i struggle and even as i have a hard time on the outside i remain good inside [[41:08]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2P9ZSwF1Ms&t=2468s) you