# E-commerce SEO for AI Search: Faceted Navigation, Bottom-of-Funnel Pages & Scaling w/out Getting Hit **Creator:** Edward Sturm **Platform:** youtube **Duration:** 1h 14m **Source:** https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2 ## Summary The podcast episode focuses on e-commerce SEO, featuring insights from Gagan Goel and Harpreet Singh. They discuss the impact of faceted navigation on AI search results, the importance of optimizing product and category pages, and the risks associated with scaling content. The conversation highlights best practices for improving organic traffic and conversion rates in e-commerce. - Faceted navigation can enhance visibility in AI search, allowing e-commerce sites to rank for long-tail keywords. - Effective crawl management is crucial for large e-commerce sites to avoid SEO issues related to faceted URLs. - Compact keywords, a strategy emphasizing targeted landing pages over traditional blog content, can significantly boost sales. - Product pages should include detailed descriptions, user reviews, and relevant keywords to enhance SEO and conversion rates. - Internal linking and contextual relevance are essential for passing page authority and improving rankings. - Digital PR campaigns and collaborations with influencers can effectively build high-quality backlinks. - Maintaining a consistent navigation structure across mobile and desktop versions is vital for SEO performance. - Creating intent-driven category pages can lead to substantial increases in sales and product visibility. ## Section Insights ### [[0:00]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=0s) Faceted Navigation in E-commerce SEO **Question:** What is the significance of faceted navigation for AI search in e-commerce? **Answer:** Faceted navigation allows users to filter products based on various attributes, which can enhance visibility in AI search results. This technique can help e-commerce sites rank for a wider array of queries, even if traditional SEO practices might not favor such pages. - Faceted URLs can improve search visibility in AI tools like ChatGPT. - E-commerce sites should leverage faceted navigation to cater to diverse customer queries. - Understanding the difference between traditional SEO and AI search is crucial for optimizing product pages. ### [[14:54]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=894s) Challenges of Scaling Faceted Navigation **Question:** What are the potential pitfalls of excessive faceted navigation in enterprise SEO? **Answer:** While faceted navigation can enhance user experience, scaling it excessively can lead to issues similar to those faced with regular content scaling, such as duplicate content and poor user engagement. It's important to balance the use of faceted navigation with meaningful content. - Over-scaling faceted navigation can lead to SEO challenges. - Adding meaningful text to pages can enhance both user experience and SEO. - It's essential to optimize faceted navigation without compromising content quality. ### [[29:49]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=1789s) Importance of Meaningful Content on Collection Pages **Question:** How should e-commerce sites approach content on collection pages? **Answer:** E-commerce sites should include meaningful content on collection pages to enhance SEO and user experience. This content should not be keyword-stuffed but rather provide valuable information relevant to the products displayed. - Meaningful content on collection pages can improve SEO and conversion rates. - Avoid keyword stuffing; focus on quality and relevance. - Placement of content on the page should prioritize user experience. ### [[44:43]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=2683s) Utilizing Search Data for SEO Strategy **Question:** How can e-commerce brands leverage search data for SEO? **Answer:** Brands can analyze their internal search data to understand customer preferences and create targeted content. This approach allows them to develop pages that cater to specific queries and improve overall site relevance. - Internal search data is a valuable resource for understanding customer needs. - Creating content based on search trends can enhance SEO effectiveness. - Brands should regularly audit their collection pages to optimize performance. ### [[59:38]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=3578s) Enhancing Product Pages with Reviews and Related Products **Question:** What strategies can improve the effectiveness of product pages? **Answer:** Incorporating user reviews, using review schema markup, and ensuring related products are relevant can significantly enhance product pages. This not only boosts SEO but also improves user trust and engagement. - User reviews and testimonials can increase credibility and conversion rates. - Ensure related products are contextually relevant to avoid diluting SEO value. - Utilizing multimedia content, such as videos, can enhance user engagement. ## Transcript [[0:00]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=0s) We are talking about e-commerce SEO on this episode of the show. We're joined by Gagan Goel and Harpreet Singh. We're going to talk about news. We're going to talk about major e-commerce sites that have experienced insane declines in organic traffic, best practices for e-commerce SEO, but I want to start with you Harpreet because you had this interesting insight about faceted navigation for AI search and you said, "I'm seeing more and more faceted URLs cited in AI search. One way to rank for lots of different queries like black men's hoodie. The link in AI will have faceted will have the faceted navigation pre-selected or like a 50-in TV for less than $600. Let your SEO and navigation do the work. This is one difference between geo and SEO. With crawl management for SEO, this page would not rank, but it's showing up in ChatGPT. I don't think anybody is talking about this because it's too technical. Wayfair actually has these pages in their sitemap." And I thought that was a really interesting insight and I wanted to learn more about that. [[1:05]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=65s) >> Yeah, so yeah, it's great to be back first of all. So yeah. No, I had that thought because I was looking for I was looking for some products to buy on ChatGPT. And when I was clicking on links, they were taking me to URLs that had so faceted navigation for everybody. When you're doing your online shopping, so let's say you're on the Nike website and you're looking at some Air Forces. So you click on the Air Force and you're on the Air Force product page or you're on the like category page, then you're like, "Okay, I want to filter for size. [[1:38]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=98s) okay, size size 11." So that's one facet. But now you don't just want the default one, you want to change the color. let's say you change the color to black. So that could be two facets. >> Yeah, explain faceted navigation for like a complete noob. >> Yeah, so basically that's it. So when you're looking for a product or you're looking for you're looking for a range of products, it's just you adding in your selection. A lot of e-commerce websites have that built in. So, yeah. [[2:04]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=124s) So, that you know that >> sidebar. >> Yeah, you see it on the sidebar. Yeah. Yeah, if you want an example of how how it works, go to Best Buy for example. Go to Amazon. Any basically any good e-commerce site has makes faceted navigation work. Wayfair is another one. You're looking for a You're looking for a dining table. So, you're on the dining table page. You can choose between wooden, glass. Yeah, wooden glass and whatnot. And then what whatever feature you select, that is the basically facet. With that, the URL of your web page changes. Now, SEO versus GEO. [[2:37]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=157s) So, this actually faceted navigation can actually cause a lot of SEO issues. So, some of these sites that deploy this, they have hundreds of thousands of pages, like even going into the millions, right? You can have so many combinations. And you have to do some sort of crawl management. So, you can use the robots.txt or you can no index certain pages. Some companies use a combination of both. So, I think for most e-commerce sites, the crawl management isn't really an issue. [[3:06]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=186s) But for the really big big sites, like your Macy's, your Sainsbury's, your Walmarts, like these kind of stores, yes, you definitely need to worry about crawl management. But that's where I got the thought of how like how are these facets showing up in in AI search. So, I saw two types of facets. One was let's say I'm looking for a TV under $800 or whatever. And you type that query into ChatGPT. Look at all the sources in the sidebar. When you click on some of the sources, you get taken to a TV retailer, like maybe a Best Buy or maybe it's Visions in if you're in Canada. And this under 800 is preselected. [[3:50]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=230s) And if you're looking for 55-65, that's also preselected. So, I ask it this, "So, I'm looking for a TV between 55 and 65 in that that is yeah, like under $1,000." You might see that page that already has the facets preselected be cited in AI search. But, now if you have any SEO extension, and this is experimenting, so I would you know people would need to experiment experiment a little. If you have an SEO extension in your browser, just look at the SEO information for that page, and it's actually canonicaling to the original to the original like category page. [[4:27]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=267s) So, now I ask the question, "Okay, how is this facet showing up in AI search for this long-tail keyword?" Now, I'm not saying blow your SEO up because if you like like I said, if you just let everything like if you let every facet rank in rank in organic search for the purpose of showing up in AI search, you're probably going to see some negative effects for you on the organic side of things. But, it's a question that I think we should be asking. I don't have the answer to that right now, but it's just some stuff I was saying like facets are showing up in AI search. They're one way to rank for long-tail keywords, and it's better than scaling blog content cuz these facets are targeting stuff people are looking for. Like this is bottom of the funnel stuff. Yeah, they're making money. [[5:11]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=311s) >> This method of marketing is so effective, I had to make sure it wasn't against Google's rules before I kept using it. It's a form of SEO I call compact keywords. Whereas most SEO focuses on putting up articles to answer questions how, what, when, compact keywords focuses on putting up dozens of pages that sell to searchers who are actually looking to buy. These pages rank on Google and convert so much better than normal that when I discovered this years ago, I couldn't believe this was allowed. It's less work, too. The average compact keywords landing page is only 415 words. Compact keywords is a 13-hour deep course on getting sales with SEO. A customer said, "Compact keywords contributed to a $4,000 sale within the first 6 weeks." [[5:54]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=354s) Another customer said, "Give it to a junior employee, have them follow it exactly as Edwards laid out. You don't have to do anything, and you're going to gain a six-figure SEO level employee just by having them go through this course." Compact keywords is about setting up an SEO funnel that brings you sales for years and years and years. It works with AI, it's less work than traditional SEO, and it makes way more money. You can get it now at compactkeywords.com. [[6:21]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=381s) Back to the podcast. >> And it's not just about, okay, let's just say Wayfair as example now. So, actually, when I did some more digging into Wayfair, some of the pages that I saw in the AI search, they actually had keyword in the URL, and if anyone can do this. Go to wayfair.ca/sitemap.xml. So, I'm using the Canadian version. They have a bunch of So, every e-commerce sites they have a search bar. Generally, when you make a search in the search bar, that page is going to be known next, so the search results page. [[6:53]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=413s) But, it seems like what Wayfair have done is there's like I don't even know how many, there's like tons and tons of them, but they have loads of keywords that are that are able to be indexed. So, that's another way to to show up in Google and in AI search. So, for example, when you go on their website, you search for >> You mean they have loads of searches that are able to be indexed? >> Yeah, yeah, they have loads of searches that are able to be indexed. So, like beige table, or like square vanity mirror. Like, I'm just making this up, but if you go on to their site map and you go into the keywords you go into the keyword the keyword site map, you'll be able to see all of them. [[7:29]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=449s) That's another way that you could show up in AI search without kind of messing up your SEO, without trying to rank for too much, cuz yeah, there's so much >> do you think ChatGPT is finding these pages? >> Yeah, that's the next question, cuz if the page is like no indexed, right? If the page is no indexed and there's no Yeah, there's canonical to the main category page. How is ChatGPT finding them? Are they using like link signals? Is there other pages on the internet that are linked to this page? [[7:58]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=478s) Could they be using Bing? Sometimes pages, you know, slip out even if like a robots.txt, for example, it's not like a definitive command. It's just a directive, right? Sometimes Sometimes like you you you can have those pages indexed in regular search as well. So, yeah, that's I think that's the million-dollar question. I don't think anybody has the answer to that. But if you want to show up in AI search and you have an e-commerce store, I definitely recommend playing around with facets. You don't need to go crazy, but you could create additional variations of like categories you have or products you have cuz it might be a yeah, it might be a way to add extra revenue. And if it doesn't work for AI search, it probably will have a benefit for organic search anyway. [[8:40]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=520s) >> What's the proper way for SEOs to implement faceted navigation? That's that definitely something we should cover on this this episode. >> Yeah. Yeah, it depends how many product SKUs you have. It depends how many different product styles you have. So, that's a very tricky question. You can have an unlimited combination. So, if you look if you study the really big sites, they generally have You can add one that'll be indexed. You can add another filter that'll still be indexed. You can add another filter, a third filter, it can still be indexed. [[9:11]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=551s) Generally, from the fourth, fifth, sixth, that's when you apply the No, there's a robots.txt directive where you have the where you exclude the URL or you start to no index filters from like four onwards. But I think up to three filters is generally is generally safe. But you do need I think when it comes to faceted navigation, you do need you do need an SEO specialist. >> And what should you do with the what like generally speaking what should you do with the site map? [[9:40]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=580s) Is what is what Wayfair is doing proper? Is like is that what you're supposed to do? >> Yeah, I I like Yeah, I like what Wayfair is doing. it's it's working. yeah, every site goes through like ups and downs. every site goes through ups and downs. >> So Wayfair you said that Wayfair has all of these facets in their navigation in their site map. >> Yeah, they have them in Yeah, they have the Yeah, so on the sorry, they they they Yeah, and in the robots.txt you can see when they stop using certain facets cuz you can see from the URL. You can see when they stop using. I don't know what level it is, but generally I'd say like level one that's all good. It's like one facet for example medium size is good. Then you might want to add another facet for example the color and then you might want to add another facet which would be the material of a material material. So three is fine, but then if you want to add a fourth I don't know, could be Wayfair product is made or yeah, whatever. That's when you start to that's when you be like "Okay, I've I've had enough of this. I'm not going to let these be these be these be in the index." [[10:41]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=641s) >> Interesting. Gargan, before we move on, do you have anything to say about this? >> Yeah, so I just wanted to add like one thing. It might be possible that OpenAI is doing a direct partnership with Wayfair or other big brands because sometime back they do announce like they are going to do some sort sort of like feed sharing with these brands. So it might be possible that all those URLs are coming from like direct partnership with the brand which we are not aware of like which is not like public as of now. [[11:08]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=668s) So that that's one thing and second thing is like my general opinion is that do not scale your URLs, especially your URLs which can be indexed by Google. Either it be collection pages, product pages, or maybe parameters in the URL, or anything like that. And I generally think that it might be possible that in 6 to 8 months from now Google will catch up the scaling nature of the site where they will see that oh, this is like too much URLs pointing to the same page where there are like users can apply filters. So, this can be bit troubling from my perspective. I think I that's why I recommend brands to not do it. It can be good for initial growth and it can work for a time, but it's really really risky, I think. [[11:52]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=712s) And the last thing that I want to say is like many brands on their product pages are not defining the filters that you can apply. What I notice now is like especially with AI search, if you have like let's say a shirt or as a product on on a page and in the description you are not defining what filters can be applied to that, like users can select like black, blue, purple, yellow, or whatever. That's a negative factor. So, at the end of your description, you should ideally try to explain that you can select black, blue, purple, or yellow, or whatever. [[12:23]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=743s) Because with the selectors in your on your product page, it's loaded by JavaScript and Open AI and other Perplexity, they are not like rendering JavaScript. So, the even if they are fetching the product page, they are not seeing the filters there. So, it's better to have some sort of like what filters can be applied in the product description. I'll just say I'll give you like an another example, like one of my client they sell a flower bouquets and on any product page you can select like how many flowers you can add to a particular bouquet, like 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, and different combinations like you want five roses and six this, seven that. [[13:00]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=780s) we did not have like those filters information in our product description, but as soon as we added around 3 to 4 weeks after that, we saw like major jump in like ChatGPT performance where and I think that's where it came from where ChatGPT and Open AI was not aware of those filters before that that all those combinations can be done. And as soon as you put in the description, they will they are were able to like see that that there are some combinations. And I I do think that people are doing like really bottom of the funnel prompts when they are having it like like a chat session with a a chat GPT. And as soon as it get as specific as I want five roses, I want six that, and seven that, and I want on the note I want to write this, then it goes to like product pages where you have all those filters information. [[13:47]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=827s) >> Yeah, Gagan makes a Yeah, Gagan made a really good point. So, it's not that like chat GPT is going to these pages and applying itself. These pages already exist somewhere. >> Yeah, I was going to I was going to ask Harpreet, were you looking at the query funnel? >> no, that's one thing I didn't do. So, I was actually making all of these searches in a private in a private in a private tab. So, chat GPT logged out in incognito. I wasn't using my own I wasn't using my own chat GPT instance. But, Gagan also made like some good points just to have things that can go wrong. So, like a few years ago I was working on a really big e-commerce site and faceted navigation was causing a lot of duplication issues, too, because you can add filters in multiple ways. So, for example, you might end up on the Air Force 1 Nike shoe, but you might select a black before you select the size. So, you got to think about how that changes the URL. So, it was one of the I hated this project, but we had to export like thousands of URLs and figure out redirects and figure out what we want the rules to be so that there would not be duplicate URLs. Cuz when you're working with really big sites, you need to worry about crawl management. Most people I don't think that's an issue, but in enterprise SEO and like the really really big sites, it is a big it is a big issue. So, yeah, scaling too much with faceted navigation just because you can is you know, it's probably not a good idea. And as Gagan said, you might end up with the same issues that you have with regular regular scale content if not if not worse. But, he also made a good point about adding text onto the pages. [[15:19]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=919s) yes, that's one thing we can talk about next. So, like just optimize it. Yeah. >> We'll talk about that in a second. I want I want Or you can talk about that, but while you talk about that, I I was wondering if you could give me one of the short searches you did, cuz I want to look at the query fan out. I'm super curious. >> yeah, just you know what? Type in on Chat GPT >> We're now, yeah. [[15:39]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=939s) >> T QLED No, not even QLED. Type in 50 to 65-in TVs for sale in Surrey, BC under $1,000. In Surrey, BC >> BC for under >> $1,000, yeah. Under 1,000, yeah, yeah, yeah. >> All right, cool. >> Yeah, so you you should get the I don't know if you'll see the >> searching it also says searching the web for 1,000 CAD or less. I'd look at these models first. [[16:12]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=972s) >> Where's your location? You might want to do it in your local currency in your city, cuz >> Oh, no, I have the I have Best Buy Canada. >> Oh, okay, oh, you have Best Buy Canada. >> It's giving It's giving openbox.ca is giving it's giving all of these. And so yeah, so now I'm going to I'm I'm going to go and inspect and look at the query fan out now. >> Yeah, look at the Yeah, look at the query fan out. See, I did That's one thing I didn't I didn't I didn't look at, but I also noticed Lululemon yesterday. I posted that, too. [[16:37]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=997s) >> Yeah, yeah, we talked about Lululemon. You said like their whole staging Korean site was >> Yeah, so seems like late March the staging site of Lululemon Korea was indexed on Google. And then the citations in Chat GPT followed. >> Wait, I got the I got the query. Wow, this is this is this is literally what Chat GPT was searching. 50 It was searching 50-in 55-in 65-in TVs under $1,000 Canada Surrey, BC retailers. [[17:10]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=1030s) >> Okay, there you go. So, if you've got those category pages, so I can now let's do let's SEO them. So, you need to have those pages on your site, right? If you're selling TVs, you're going to have the 50 out of a category for like or facet or a category for 50-in TVs, 55, 65-in TVs. And I think Best Buy do I think Best Buy do a pretty good job job of that. There's multiple ways you can get to those pages. I think they use they use filters and they use specific like they use specific pages to where they have like not a list, but it's kind of like a list and they have different brands and different brands on those. [[17:43]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=1063s) So, yeah, Best Buy do a pretty good job of that. >> Yeah, that's crazy bottom of a funnel. >> Yeah. >> There's there's real intent behind that search. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> And and also like like one thing that I'm noticing specifically with ChatGPT is that if we on your product pages you have some functionality which is like JavaScript powered, then you have to turn that into text. Like I work with a gifting company. So, if you land on any of their product page, there is like the main product and all the information about it and at around like the bottom bottom of the page, you can build like a box for you whoever you are gifting. Like like you you maybe gifting something to your kids or maybe your cousin or someone. [[18:26]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=1106s) But, we did not have any information about that as a text on the page. And as soon as we added that, we saw like some performance improvement in ChatGPT where all the products have JavaScript where where you can select like different product to build a gift box. But, we did not as a user who is coming to the page, they can of course like see that and build a gift box. But, as ChatGPT is coming to that page, it cannot interact and build a gift. So, we had to like put in additional text describing that you can also like build a gift box here. [[19:00]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=1140s) >> This is this is actually the behavior is super super weird as I'm looking at the query fan out. So, there's something called safe URLs. And okay, URLs get tracking parameters. Every URL in safe URLs is Where did it come from? I think safe URLs is the URLs that ChatGPT found after doing the search. But, some of these are really weird because it's Okay, OpenAI is one of them, but then, github.com/openclaw/openclaw is another one. [[19:42]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=1182s) docs.google.com And, it's not What I'm saying is not just e-commerce sites that are showing up. There's a lot of them. There's like TechRadar, Openbox, Best Buy. But, I'm just I'm like, why is github.com/openclaw showing up here? What is going on with this with this search? Super strange. >> a black hat. >> You think so? >> I think so. I think so. You for like e-commerce site, ChatGPT is going to get up, then there might be some black hat going on. [[20:14]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=1214s) >> I'm going to >> see the full URL? >> Pardon me? >> Can you load the full URL? Can you copy the full URL and open it in a new tab and see what's on the page? >> yeah, I can I mean, it's like an Openclaw page from from GitHub. and it's just what you would it's what you would expect. I'm going to I'm going to keep looking into this. Harpreet, can you Yeah, can you share what happened with both Lululemon and Momcozy? So, Momcozy had this like insane dip where it went from 1.6 million clicks a month to 300,000 because of Scaled AI. [[20:47]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=1247s) >> Yeah, so both the Yeah, Lululemon was just interesting. I just saw that. And this is more for all the people that say, you know, SEO is no longer relevant. This was that was just my rant on Twitter. Like, people that say, you know, the rules have changed. Like, SEO is completely different to AO and GEO, that you don't need SEO. What you need to do is something completely new. and this is such a random thing where okay, so the staging site goes live probably by accident. [[21:13]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=1273s) seems like late March was picked up by Google in early April and it actually started to rank probably cuz it's Lululemon and they you know, they they can they can rank the stuff. But then the visibility in chat GPT came after the visibility in Google. Now it could be Bing as well for example, like I didn't I didn't look at Bing. Like they could have been using Bing too. But the fact is that these URLs were available in search and then they were available in chat GPT. So I would say when you're optimizing for AI right now just don't do things that will have a negative impact on your SEO cuz we do know that what you do for traditional SEO still has an impact on the citations and how you show up in AI search. So that's what that was that's what that point that's what that point was about. And I think someone else I just saw a tweet today by a prominent SEO like but it was he was saying you know, it's not an achievement to not rank on Google but to rank in chat GPT. [[22:11]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=1331s) Like that doesn't do anyone any that's not that's not an achievement because the majority of people still use still use Google. So yeah, you don't want to mess up your Google rankings for chat GPT. So that was where the Lululemon stuff came from. The Momcozy one was interesting cuz yeah, if you know, I was looking for some stuff cuz I just had a kid and I was on the Momcozy website and I was like hey, what's going on in their blog? [[22:35]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=1355s) I looked in the blog and it was all just HCU style content. Content that got hit by got affected when all the H when when all the niche sites got affected by the algorithm updates and the HCU update. It's all very keyword oriented and you know, they did great job scaling to 1.6 million users a month. They had a whole folder on like baby names when do babies develop kneecaps? Like just any anything you can think of about a baby, any keyword, they have a AI generated content piece. [[23:08]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=1388s) Okay, great. So, they scaled. And then came, I think it was the May update, is when they started to decrease and I first posted something when they went down a few hundred thousand and then I was like, "Okay, it seems like the AI generated content is declining." But then I noticed they started deleting pages. So, they had a section for baby names. I think it was baby name meaning, like what does whatever name mean? They got rid of that section completely. So, I think they realized internally that they may have scaled too far. And then last time I checked, the dip was still dipping and they went from 1.6 million to like 300,000. This was their blog. [[23:43]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=1423s) But then I wanted to see, "Okay, has all of this had any impact on the collections and where the actual product categories live?" And the last algorithm update, they did see a decline in the in the product category sections. So, I'm not saying scaled content is the only reason. But when an algorithm update happens, you know, you're you should look at your entire site. You should see the quality of your entire site. If you do something, for example, in the blog, that's going to affect your revenue generating page revenue generating pages, I probably wouldn't do that thing in the blog. Like there was no need for them to scale content for some of those keywords cuz they were never going to drive revenue in the first place. And they're not alone. And I have this gripe even with some of the people I work with. [[24:30]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=1470s) Just cuz you can do something doesn't mean you should. you don't need to Like who are you doing this content efficiency for? Like I wouldn't be surprised if it was some sort of growth manager that doesn't know SEO that was like, "Let's do this thing." Cuz that's what I'm seeing right now in marketing. I'm surprised it was e-commerce cuz I see it more in B2B. But in B2B, yeah, like you'll get like a growth manager, you'll get some sort of whatever like bright idea of let's do this with content. We can be 10x more efficient. [[24:59]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=1499s) Some of the companies out there, I'm not going to name them, but you know, it's >> Name one Name one of them. >> Yeah, Ahrefs for that kind of stuff. Yeah, Ahrefs and Profile are another one. Like some of the stuff they put out is so stupid. I don't You know, it's disappointing to see really big SEOs like just jump on them like just jump on their like bandwagon, too, and just repeat what they say. It's obviously a content scaling tool. You can use it to scale content. They've used it to scale content. Their customers have used it to scale content. Just go on the customer stories section and you'll see you'll see what they're doing. [[25:31]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=1531s) And you don't need to You don't need to do that. Because over the long run, you might get some sort of, you know, algorithmic action that will A or affect the pages that you just created like the mass like learn pages or glossary pages or in Mom Cozy's case, I don't I don't know who they used, which tool they used, but regardless, they made the content. It will affect it like they got hit by the algorithm update. They then deleted the pages anyway, but now their collections pages, which they make money from, have also been affected cuz they're also seeing a downwards trend. Now, if you're actually the SEO person in that company, you're trying to figure out what to do next cuz you just deleted thousands of pages. [[26:12]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=1572s) Your collection pages are actually fine. You know, they're pretty well optimized from an SEO point of view. So, what's your next move? Like what do you do? Like I don't have the answer to that. So, what what do you do if you're them and you want to get that traffic back or you want to get your rankings back for the for the collection pages. So, yeah. Didn't mean to rant like that, but you know, that's what I'm seeing right now. [[26:34]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=1594s) A lot of companies that are just making content for the sake of making content cuz it's so easy and there's not really a strategy behind them behind what they're doing. But at the same time, if you're an e-commerce store and you know, Gagan, you spoke about text, I actually think text is really important as well. And now we're going back to SEO 5-10 years ago. So some sites still have it. So if you go to Macy's and you go to a category, let's just say men's jean or whatever, or men's shirts, scroll all the way down, you'll see some copy. you'll see some copy like men's dress shirts will be like a H2, and then you'll see a paragraph like men's dress shirts can be worn on all occasions and dress shirts >> video on Chewy? Did you see the what I did about Chewy? They did the exact same thing. Just it's it's complete keyword stuffing. It's crazy. [[27:24]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=1644s) >> Yeah. >> Yeah and I think a lot you know, I think a lot of e-commerce SEOs think that you have to do that on collection pages. And like I think like it's a it's a really common thing in e-commerce SEO and you shouldn't do that. That's not what the copy exists for. >> Like >> Yeah. >> Make Use the copy to sell. Use the copy to explain why people should buy with you. Not Not to keyword stuff. And you know what's even crazy? These pages that are doing keyword stuffing, they won't even have the keyword in the primary places. Page title, URL slug, H1, first sentence. But then they'll keyword stuff these like huge block paragraphs in tiny font going from full width. It's Yeah, it's it's a huge gripe of mine, too. [[28:00]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=1680s) >> Yeah. And you know, big e-commerce stores did it. I worked on a lot of these projects for projects for e-commerce stores where And this is before This is one place I actually like to Not to discredit them, but you might want to use If you're doing this, I think some of the tools that we mentioned might actually be useful here cuz it's like mind-numbing content, right? You're just writing paragraphs about fresh shirts, for example. so that's one place you might want to use some sort of AI-generated content just making it sound less >> do you think it's Do you think it's a good practice to have these >> No. Not Not in Not in Not in the way that it's done, but I think it's worth having stuff like maybe FAQs, not for the sake of FAQ schema and ranking in the search, but for customers. I think it's worth having. [[28:42]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=1722s) >> Yeah. >> And the other reason okay, so where this type of content is also worth having is like luxury brands for example. On your product pages, you might want certain product features. You want to say why your product is luxurious. You want to say why your product is like a step above for example another product. If you're buying an OLED TVs, easy example. If you're buying an If you're on an OLED TV product page or you're on the category section, so let's just say you're a new e-com store in a wherever or you're a new physical store. It doesn't It doesn't matter. You have a category OLED TVs, you have a category QLED TVs. So on the OLED TV you might have OLED TVs from multiple brands like LG. I don't know if Samsung do them but Samsung, Sony. So you might have multiple products from different brands on that page. But then you might want to have some additional information in the FAQ. [[29:35]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=1775s) So what makes an OLED TV better than a QLED TV? what makes an OLED TV better than an LCD? How many Yeah and and to be Yeah and to be fair >> here, this is this is all stuff that is going to help the customer buy with you. >> Right. >> You're not doing You're not even doing that for SEO. You're doing that to get the conversion. >> Exactly. It's just a positive that it's going to help or it should help your SEO too cuz again as you know Calvin's experiments pointed out you got to have the text on page for for AI search purposes. But this is something you can do that's you know not going to have a negative impact on your on your SEO too. But that's something that yeah I would I would do. Maybe you want to add a bit of text about OLED TVs. You may want to You may want to internal link to another section of the site. [[30:20]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=1820s) but yeah so that's a good way to add this extra content on the category pages. But yeah there's so many sites that you know just have keyword stuffed keyword stuffed rubbish. >> So so we we all agree that it's better to have like this text on collection pages, but it need to be like meaningful. It don't need to be like keyword stuffed or anything like that. And also like one question that I get from brands is like some people want to do it at at the top of the collection page where they have like three or four lines. And at the end of the line it says read more, you click that and it expands and move the whole collection page products grid down. And some brands have it at the bottom like as a user like which one you guys like prefer? Because so I I debate this with >> You want to see the products above the fold. You want to get there and see what you all came for. You would like have I'm like I tell people have like two lines it's have your H1 two to like one to two sentences, the products, and then all the text under that. And even you could even then put another image within the text under that. But like yeah, I'm with you I'm with you Gagan. [[31:27]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=1887s) >> Yeah, I'm with you. >> So so I had the Yeah, 100% yep. >> No, I just cuz I'm with you, too. Like bottom of the page. >> Yeah. Yeah, because I debate this with like some brands they think that it's better to have it at the top. So when someone is landing on the page they get to know what is on collection page before they scroll to the products. And some brands saying that oh no, we we just want people to straight away go to our products and then if they want additional information they can scroll down to read the text here. [[31:53]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=1913s) >> By the way, I so I looked into safe URLs. So safe URLs are URLs that were verified as safe for the user to visit. This is on this is within ChatGPT's JSON. So URLs that were verified as safe for the user to visit, they are included to provide users with relevant trustworthy sources. And so then I I did a another test prompt within ChatGPT, Empire State Building opening times, something completely different from like 50-in TVs. And you know, you you see Empire State Building and all these all these sites, but you still see github.com/openclaw/openclaw here. And and then like Google Docs and and these within the safe URLs. So I don't know why Open Claw is showing up within this list of safe URLs for any type of search within ChatGPT, but anyway, yeah, this this validates that for your insight, Harpreet, ChatGPT was actually doing this super long-tail bottom-of-funnel search to get these faceted URLs. [[33:04]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=1984s) >> Yeah, and exactly, and that's what's going to make you money. And again, like don't go crazy making the pages, but just think about >> >> think about what you sell and what long-tail keywords can be associated with those pages. Maybe, you know, old school and Excel sheet, write them down. If you want, you can validate them with with search volume. But sometimes it's kind of like obvious based on what you sell. So, like for example, TVs, you're going to have pages for less than 40-in, 50 to 55, 60-plus, 65, like what whatever, right? You're going to have this pretty It's pretty obvious. [[33:38]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=2018s) So, yeah, I think it's an easy way for e-commerce sites to grow and just rank for additional terms both in regular search and in AI search. And for more inspiration, definitely check out the keyword section of Wayfair and how they use the search bar. Okay, I just think that's a really smart way to rank for categories you might not necessarily have or pages you might not necessarily have. >> This is from this is from Multilingual Land where and I shared this previously on the podcast, but it's it's super cool and I really like it. [[34:10]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=2050s) So, Pretty Little Thing switched from traditional category pages like jeans to intent-driven category pages like airport outfits leading to an 841% uplift. Every single item featured on these intent-driven category pages sold out of stock. Multilingual got that from Brighton SEO in April. And I'm like, that's crazy. I love that. >> Yeah. Dude, that's really good. There's a few other sites have done something similar and it is clothing. It is clothing sites like I forgot who it was, but they have like graduation dresses. [[34:46]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=2086s) I think Macy's, you know, Macy's might have some. I worked on that a few years ago. Like graduation dresses. like yeah, like based on different events, like categories or pages on different events. And as an e-commerce store, yeah, you might not necessarily have them like front and center, but you might have the base like search pages, like keyword search pages, and you might want to tag like multiple products to them in the back end, however that works. But yeah, I think that's really good way to to rank to to show up for extra terms. I think Rise at 7, the agency, I think their CEO posted something about this, too. I could be making it up, but I'm quite confident she posted something about this for one of for one It might even be a pretty little thing, I don't know. But I'm pretty sure they posted something about this, too. [[35:34]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=2134s) So yeah, I think it's Again, they're all bottom-of-the-funnel queries, right? We're not making This isn't making blog content. This isn't pages. >> What people don't realize is that these searches exist. These people who want your product exist, but if you're not describing your product in the correct ways, these people aren't going to find your products. Your product will satisfy all of these intent intents. People will be happy buying your products, but if you don't have the right keywords to describe your products, people aren't going to find them. [[36:01]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=2161s) >> Good one is the supplement store. So I forgot about this one. So hemp oil. I'm not going to say the other words cuz I don't want any like bans or whatever, but yeah, so like if you go on a lot of the these like hemp oil sites or like hemp product sites, you can like buy So you can buy products by function. So like whatever supplement for sleep. But oh, they already have like the melatonin gummy, for example, right? They might have a melatonin gummy in in the gummies category. So, it might be like the edibles category, the gummies category, that's where they have the melatonin product, but that melatonin product can also be found in the whatever products for sleep section. [[36:39]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=2199s) But, in that sleep section, now you might also have a melatonin oil. When that oil is naturally, it's found in the oil section. So, it's the same thing. So, yeah, it's yeah, creating product categories by intent, you're just targeting more keywords, and it's an easy way easy way to grow your site. >> Yeah. Before we >> I'm talking. >> Yeah, and also like regarding text on collection pages, like sometimes you are dealing with with with products which are like too granular. Like last year, I did a project with a company which sell like tractor parts. So, they have like hundreds of screws, hundreds of parts, and everything in between. Like Like you can buy from them almost like a 20K products, but this is like too granular. [[37:21]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=2241s) Like screw 1 in 1 different, the angle, and everything else. In those kind of the cases, it's become really hard to add text on collection pages. Like you have a page about screws, but all the screws on that page are different. Like they are There is not like much similarity. But, if you have shirts on your collection page, then almost like it it's a shirt. Like even the color is different or something like that. So, if you have too much granularity in your products on the collection page, but it's like a screw, then I think it's better to create like blog pages. So, what I did for with that brand is that they had like manuals PDFs all around like how to use those screws and repair your your tractor and where to add where that part can be useful. I used AI to extract all that information and created like blog pages, separate blog pages like how to use this specific screw, where where where where the function is, when to consider to buy it, and everything else. [[38:17]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=2297s) So, this is something that also like brands need to focus on. This is not for general like if you're in beauty, fashion, or something like that. But, if you're in a niche where your collection pages have are too granular products, then instead of like stuffing or even useful content on the those collection pages is not going to move the needle. So, rather than you you would have to do like more broad bottom of the funnel informational strategy on your your site overall as blog pages, where you're actually describing each and every granular detail so that AI and both Google can pick up okay this screw you have it, and someone is searching for it, you are actually describing the use case of that, when to use it, and everything else. [[39:01]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=2341s) >> You know, that's a good point, too, because you know, SEO, there's not just one right answer for different sites. Something that doesn't work for one site might work for might work for another business. a good one is so is Charlotte Tilbury, the makeup company. So, I saw them in some case studies, and I was like, okay, what are they doing? So, let me look at their blog. They have content on there like how to contour brown eyes, or like the makeup that works for like blue eyes, or whatever. Like, I don't know if these exact terms, but they have so much content like that for how to do something for a specific like facial feature or like a a body feature. And that's kind of like what Argan said, cuz you're not going to have like all of these combinations in your categories, right? [[39:46]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=2386s) But, here yeah, they take the how to, so like how to do something for whatever the color eyes, and they explain that is seems like, you know, baby AI is involved, but they have the product at the end. And then they have the exact products that would fit like brown eyes or what blue eyes or or whatever. So, yeah, for something like that, I think Charlotte Tilbury is a good example to look at in their blog. Not saying it's the right thing to do, not saying it's the wrong thing to do, but you know, they do it, and it seems like they're successful with with what they're doing. [[40:16]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=2416s) >> And also, like if you as a e-commerce brand, you're creating like informational content, then if you are creating useful content, I think you should not be thinking about like getting traffic from Google or ChatGPT or anywhere else. Because like like the tractor company that I mentioned, those pages are going to live on their site for forever, hopefully, at least for like next 5-6 years. And wherever anyone is doing like deep research or they're doing a long chat session with ChatGPT or even using AI more, of course that information is going to show up because that information is like so unique and well-structured. But there is no like direct or where I can say that in next 6 months these creating these pages is going to bring in like 100k or 200k or something like that. Sometimes you have to create content to set yourself up as a base where you have like specific information pages which are targeting really bottom of the funnel information and your ROI there is no like ROI limit on that. In long-term in 5-10 years terms, you are going to get immense ROI, but if you are just like thinking of like 6 months or 1 year and based upon that you're you're creating that bottom of funnel content, then you are going to lose against your competitors who are going to hire her pre-ad word or me and we are going to blast these bottom of the funnel pages every day every day >> >> of the week, you know. [[41:40]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=2500s) >> I want to talk about scaling when when scaling SEO content becomes a problem in e-commerce. So, category pages, good example, when do you have too many category pages or something like just like you have lots of variations. So, maybe curtains, 50-in curtains, 51-in curtains, 52-in curtains, and it keeps going on and on. And then also, how unique does this content need to be if it's just variations? Very common question. >> Yeah, honestly, I I'm going to do a political answer. [[42:11]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=2531s) right? It depends on your store and it depends on your target keyword. So, I know for example there's some furniture stores that do have variations for 51-in 52-in 53 54 55 and they and they rank. But, that's what people people look for. I think it's probably easier to get away with if you're a bigger if you're a bigger brand. I think Yeah, so it's you probably easier to get away with if you're a bigger brand. you know the bigger the site I think >> you have the the the more you can get away with more SEO basically. [[42:47]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=2567s) >> Yeah, but the more additional pages like this you can add. But, if you're a really small site, so if you're my local furniture retailer down the road and you don't have a very big site, you have 100 pages, but now you hire an SEO and the SEO is like, you know what? We sell curtains. We need a page for every variation of the curtain. That's probably not a good idea cuz his baseline is 100 pages, right? yes, it's not going to be a smart idea to have to add hundreds of more pages just around curtains. But, if it was a much bigger site that already had like maybe three, four, 5,000 pages and you're like, "Hey, I want to add these 400 pages around curtain color, curtain size." You're probably more likely to get away with it. So, I think with these questions you always need just someone to look at it and just make an educated decision on you know, what is going to be like an educated guess, right? I would say on what is going to be the right amount and what might just be a little bit too much. So, yeah, political answer, but it depends it's Yeah, it just depends on the business you're working with. [[43:55]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=2635s) >> Then when you're when you have like 50-in 51-in 52-in how different is the content on each page? Is it all the same? What do the URLs look like in an optimal scenario? >> Yeah, sometimes it's not it's sometimes the content is the same. Like you might just have the only thing that changes the heading. And I think an example for this if people want to see is Nordstrom. I haven't been on this site in a while cuz they left Canada, but I remember Nordstrom used to have no SEO copy, like none of that copy that we spoke about earlier on their pages. They just used to have products, but some of the products were like quite similar. That's some of the categories were very similar, but they still they still ranked. So if you're an e-commerce store and you're directing people to products, I don't think that duplication issue is a big deal. And if someone's looking for a blue 51-in curtain that's made out of I don't know what the like linen or I don't know what curtains are made of, like linen. [[44:52]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=2692s) that's fine cuz that's what they're looking for, but in the 52-in that's fine. And you know, on the product grid might just all be the same color. So in that sense, I think it's fine and not really not really not really an issue. >> Also, you know, I also wonder maybe like maybe it would never even be an issue. If you think about when SEO content becomes spam, it's it like the explanation is if it's not going to help searchers, then it's SEO spam. But the thing is all these variations of pages are actually like that's going to be useful for searchers. Searchers are searching different inches and variations and all of these things. [[45:28]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=2728s) >> Yeah, exactly. They are. And for again, for bigger sites, not even bigger sites, maybe for like local city fashion retailers for example, that search bar is going to have so much information for you. If you're tracking what people are typing into your search bar and you're an e-commerce store, you will know what people are looking for. Like you don't even need to use a tool to do keyword research. Go through your last 2 years of history around what people have searched for in your search bar and then map out themes and you can create bottom-of-the-funnel pages pages that way. [[45:59]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=2759s) >> Okay, do you have anything to add on this? >> in general, I'm against like scaling collection pages. So, that's where my like approach starts. But, if on a particular collection page, if you have like 20 products, and from your Shopify back end and sales data, you can see that out of those 20, five are performing really, really well for some reason, then I sort of start to think about like maybe we can just take those five and create another collection page. [[46:26]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=2786s) Because there must be something unique around those five products. That's why they are selling out of all the 20 where on the collection page where people are landing. So, this is my general approach. And in terms of the scaling, I'm always against it. Like even for informational site, news sites, it's it's not something that I that I prefer to do. >> That's it's it's dangerous for sure. But, with e-commerce, it's like sometimes it's like how do you avoid it? [[46:54]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=2814s) >> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> I I think that's the thing. >> Sorry, go ahead, man. >> Yeah, no, no, go ahead. >> No, no, I think you can go ahead. I >> >> Yeah, so I yeah, I I just want to I think it's it depends upon like how you want your overall site to be structured. So, if you you want to scale your collection pages, then you have to make sure how your contextual internal links are laid out through the site. Not from the navigation or the footer, but the contextual internal links that you have. [[47:22]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=2842s) So, sometimes you may have like similarity amongst like five collection pages. But, from the contextual internal links, you can see that most of the context is going to one particular collection page. And rest four are just hanging in there. Like you have 100 contextual internal links to one collection page, and rest is just like five, six, or seven, or eight. If Google is doing reassessment of all those collection pages, then most of the page rank value will end up with the collection page that have like most amount of the contextual pages. [[47:53]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=2873s) So, you would have to make sure that if there is a reassessment of rankings at the core update, spam update, or anything like that, then Google will try to hit your collection pages which don't have like that many contextual internal links. And then you will have to see that if those collection pages are getting traffic, if they are and people are coming to those and people are buying, then it's better to like build more contextual internal links to those pages than a collection page, similar collection page which has like so many contextual internal links, but no one is coming to those pages and actually buying it. So, it's more of like a step-by-step assessment where you're overall seeing like you have similar collection pages, how your contextual internal links are laid laid out, what is the risk associated in terms of the revenue if there is a possible hit in like 6, 7, 8 months. So, it's more of like a case-by-case assessment, but this is how you can like approach it. [[48:49]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=2929s) >> Yeah, I agreed. Agreed that you know, while we're talking about e-commerce and scaling pages and what pages you should and shouldn't have, I think sale pages is a good one. So, this is just for more of our listeners. Like, for example, some sites just have one sale page and that's the one they update year-round with like Black Friday, Cyber Monday, and so and so, and they don't really do the keyword targeting as they should. But, you know, have holiday sale pages for each holiday sale there is. Have a separate page for Black Friday, but don't just don't just Once Black Friday's over, don't forget about the page. Just optimize it for the year after. Put a countdown clock on there or something. [[49:29]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=2969s) Or say that, "Hey, it's not Black Friday right now, but Black Friday is 7 months away, but here's our current deals." Like, have sort of a module like that. Cyber Monday's another keyword you can target. then, yeah, different sales throughout the day. Like, you know, sometimes some companies do like a Black Friday in June. Like, a Black Friday in the summer. Like, it's a thing here in Canada. Like, I've seen some stores do that. So, that's another That's another page. So, yeah, I think sale pages this isn't scaled content. It's just maybe five, seven, 10 12 pages. Just have them active all year round. A Mother's Day sale page, Father's Day, like all stuff stuff like that I think is they're all good pages to have and you don't need to have them in your navigation year round. you can take them out of your main navigation once the holiday's over. You can put them in the footer. You can get them out of the footer as well. [[50:18]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=3018s) if you don't want to have them there, too. It's just good to have like alive cuz they're building links authority and all that. >> people search. These are things that people search and so you want to have optimized pages for the things that people are actually searching. >> Yeah. And you know, like SEO I think now we've spoke about this in other videos, but you know, marketing is more like what's the term? just connected like different teams are connected. So, you might want to create a gift guide in the blog. So, a good keyword for the blog or a good page to create would be Mother's Day gift ideas, right? [[50:53]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=3053s) Because you sell those products. But now your email marketing person can link to that page. Like that's an that's an email marketing resource as well. So, I think when we create content for SEO outside of what Mom Cozy were doing in the scaled content thing. If we actually think about what type of content we want to make, there's so many other uses for that content within the company. So, like gift guides, yeah, they can be repurposed. the mattress companies out there, they all have comparison pages. So, again, comparison pages they're not new for GEO you know, companies have been making versus pages since as far back as I got into the industry and you can have like Casper versus Purple mattress. Like they have pages like these where they compare one brand to another brand. Again, email marketing it can be an email marketing resource. So, just think about what people are looking for. Use your search bar to get ideas and then speak to other people in your team cuz yeah, your email marketing person might have an idea that you didn't even think of. [[51:51]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=3111s) Right? And that might be useful for your for your customer. And I think just as SEOs, like as our profession, I think it's more important than ever before that we speak to other people in the in the organization. >> I'm going to quickly touch upon Oh, go ahead, Gagan. >> Oh, yeah. I just I wanted to add one more thing regarding Black Friday. So, if you have any collection or products which you're you're going to launch in like 3 to 4 months, just make those pages live as soon as possible. And on those collection pages and product pages, you can just say that available to order from 1st of November or 1st of December. So, if you have already some launch coming up, just make those pages live as soon as possible. [[52:31]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=3151s) >> Yeah, right after this call. That's one thing I always say. Even Black Friday, it doesn't matter if it's in November, get that page up in July. Just Yeah. Just do it. Yeah, Boxing Day if you're in the UK, just get those pages up. >> Awesome. yeah, so quick Google Merchant Center AI performance report news. before we talk about that, if you were not familiar with Google Merchant Center or if you want a deep dive on Google Merchant Center, our last episode, it was with you two, with Gagan and Harpreet, and it was awesome. It's making That episode is making people a lot of money. It's episode 1081 of this show, Google Merchant Center mistakes killing your e-commerce revenue. So, if you're in e-commerce, highly recommended episode. and so, Gagan, can you talk about the Google Merchant Center AI performance report? [[53:17]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=3197s) >> Yeah. So, this report they Google launched I think it around 2 days back, and it's still in limited beta, just in US. So, if you are located in US and you still don't have it, just wait because it it's available only for like some brands right now. And it shows you how your products feeds are performing in AI search, just like Google launched generative AI report in Search Console. It's similar to that, but it just show you like performance of your product feeds in AI overviews and AI mode. [[53:47]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=3227s) But, there are no information about like clicks. So, you cannot get any idea around like which product is getting how many clicks. And I I hope that over time Google adds this information. So, this is something that I'm also looking forward to, but right now it's not available for like any of my clients. So, I have not like dig deeper into the report. And it's going to become become a part of the strategy just like Google Search Console and Merchant Center already is. [[54:13]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=3253s) So, whatever Google is going to give us, we are going to to analysis of that and make decisions according to it. >> Yeah. let's wrap by talking about just going back on to basic e-commerce SEO things that every store should do because there's still a few things that we haven't talked about. I don't I I don't think we really went deep. We've gone deep into category pages, but how about product page optimization? >> Yeah, product page optimization. I think one of the things you mentioned earlier on. Okay, so there's actually two ways. [[54:42]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=3282s) So, sometimes we're not talking about big e-commerce stores. Someone is you know, they're just selling something very specific. So, you either rank for the product name through the category or the individual or the individual product page. and there's no right or wrong answer here. But, if you just have the one product, then it might make sense to optimize the product page for the for what you're selling. But, if you have multiple, then you obviously want to go there. You obviously want to go to the category route. Let's say you go to the category route. the one example is like again, hemp oil. [[55:21]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=3321s) you might have that category page wanting to rank for like buy hemp oil or whatever, but then the individual products, you may want to have the milligram in the URL. So, it could be 500 mg product. It could be a mg product, it could be 1,500 mg product. Now, again, there's no right or wrong answer here, but you could go the product variant route where on the one product page someone selects whatever like mg they want or whatever size they want and the URL changes, or you can actually create multiple products, like multiple products with different sizes. So, for example, the 500 mg has its own URL and 1,000 mg has its own and 1,500 has has its own. So, again, there's no right or wrong answer here. [[56:10]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=3370s) It just depends on how big your product collection is, how many SKUs you have, and then making a decision making a decision based on that. But, you got to make sure all your features are listed on the product page. There's no point just having an image and a brief description. have where it's made. Have all of the certifications your product has if that's if that's if that's if that's relevant. what makes your product different from a generic a generic product cuz that's where the AI search optimization is a little bit different from SEO where SEO we just want to get the click, but when AI is talking about products, it's giving it all this extra information. Make sure that information's on your website. [[56:52]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=3412s) Make sure that information is and if you're working with affiliates and whatnot, make sure that information is repeated on their site, but for one, you definitely need it on your own site. Add that extra context. So, that's what I'd say. I just say don't leave your product pages bare. Optimize them. Make them useful for people as you said as you said earlier. >> How do you do alt text for image for for e-commerce? This image alt text >> Yeah, just describe the the image, to be honest. Like, that's all it does. [[57:20]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=3440s) >> Describe the product in depth, every characteristic. >> Yep. Yeah, I'd say so. You can do every characteristic. yeah, describe the every characteristic. But, sometimes you don't want to go overboard. You don't want to go overboard either for the actual screen for screen readers. So, you know what I'm on the fence of like how much in-depth do you want to be if someone is you know, is using assistance to view your view your page. so, I generally just you just have to look at the product to make your best judgment. Like, you don't need to say the bottle is blue, for example. [[57:54]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=3474s) Right? But, you might want to have a product feature in the in the alt text, but you want to make it sound natural. >> Yeah. And also like adding a I think Harpreet gave like like a great description of like whatever you need to do. And just to add like like two common things that I see like brands which are like making a mistake is if if let's say they have like seven product images, and all of them are showing the product from different angles and different model, but they have the same alt text for all of those images. That is a mistake. If your product image is from different angle, different model, or something like that, then you you just need to make sure that each of your image it has like unique alt text describing like whatever is there in the image. And the next thing is many brands make a mistake the related products that they have on at the bottom of the product page a usually like a carousel, those are not actually related products. [[58:46]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=3526s) Those are like some random products picked up from from other collection pages by some what AI automation, which is making a big mistake. So, these these these are the things that you need to fix where you are showing actually related products. So, if someone is coming to buy like baby milk bottle and you're showing them shirts for men at the bottom as related products, that's clearly a negative signal for the user. So, you just wanted to make sure that the related products are actually related to the main product on the page. [[59:16]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=3556s) >> Yeah, and that's something I've seen. That creeps up over time. So, I guess when everyone makes these pages, right? They are relevant, but over time, as your product catalog grows, yeah, like these mistakes they do they do happen. And a good one I see on clothing sites is complete the look. So, you might be shopping for a t-shirt, but when you scroll down, I think Nike do this. It's like complete the look. Where you'll see like a hat, you'll see some shorts or whatever. You'll see some shoes. I think that's also a good way to spread like link equity around. But yeah, make sure your products are related. I think over time that >> Yeah. [[59:50]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=3590s) >> that creeps in and you just need a little audit. >> And that that having like unrelated products, because Google can pick up the text of title of those unrelated products. It it dilutes like overall value of your product page. So, if the product page is about shirts, but in the related products you're showing like baby water bottles or something like that, then you're essentially like trying to target two keywords and totally unrelated for the same page. So, you just have to make sure that the related is actually related to the main product on the page. [[60:23]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=3623s) >> Is there anything go on Humphrey? >> I was just going to say what I was just going to like list off some other items that >> Yeah, please. Please. >> Like it's like reviews for example. Make sure you have reviews on the page. >> Mhm. >> You use review schema markup. Doesn't doesn't doesn't doesn't hurt. You might get the stars on the product page. I sorry, you might get the stars on the search page. So, yeah, make sure you have reviews. [[60:44]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=3644s) you know, one thing I found like videos work in the reviews. What's better than just a verified reviewer is if you have a real person. I've seen success stories where you have images of people using the product. So, you have the product images above, where then below when you have the additional context like how people use the product, like some sort of testimonials testimonials for them. So, I think all that stuff is is much better than just having a a bad page. [[61:13]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=3673s) >> And also I think you can encourage users to leave video reviews on your product pages. TikTok shop like on TikTok shop, if you go to any like product, especially in Asia, we at the bottom you will always see like some video reviews because they like merchants on TikTok Shop they incentivize users like they give coupons and everything else. If you post like a video review, so this is something that also like a brands I think should try. [[61:40]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=3700s) >> How about How about copy like for conversion rate optimization for just for yeah, for maximizing conversions. So like maybe you're targeting a keyword, but would you add any benefits to the H1 or like yeah, how do you write the How do you write the copy to balance both for keywords and SEO, but also for conversions? >> Yeah, again, product Yes, I think a lot of a lot of testing here. Like you need to know who your customer base is, who's like the who's the target demographic cuz one product can be marketed in many in many different many different ways. So yeah, okay, when we talk about description, I think that's important, but for like let's just say the H1, product name maybe like H2, H3 like below the below the fold. I think go for your main keyword. And I like Levi's as an example. So we know Levi's for like their jean, it's like 510, 511, 509, 501. Like that's what they do their branding as, right? Their branding is all around the 500 range, but when you go to their website, you will not see 501 in their page title. It's going to be like regular jeans or their men's 510 is going to be their slim fit jeans or like slim fit taper or tailored fit. [[62:55]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=3775s) So even though they have this brand and they're promoting this brand on TV like everyone knows the brand, everyone knows the numbers, but for SEO purposes, their keywords are like women's jeans, men's jeans, women's slim fit jeans, men's slim fit jeans, right? So I just say target your main target Make sure your main keywords are in the places they're supposed to supposed to be. Even if you have a Even if you have a brand, and I always use them as an example. [[63:22]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=3802s) >> Yeah. And I it's it's almost like in your main elements, which are like bigger and more visible on on the page, you you want to get the attention of the user, so just use like relevant keywords which people might be looking for. That's how you like end up getting the attention. And in your product description, you can add like more CRO specific words where you got the attention from the bigger elements on the page, and then in if the user scrolls below, they start to read the product description. That's where you're actually like selling and trying to close them. [[63:55]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=3835s) >> Yeah. It's kind of like it it's kind of like explaining why somebody should go with your business, why they should trust your brand. They're already interested. This is what they want. They came here from high high intent search. >> Yep, of course. >> Yeah, yeah. how about how about site architecture and menu restructuring? Is there anything that we didn't cover with this? >> I think we covered a lot of things. how making sure your main pages are in the navigation. For e-com sites, some of them navigation can get huge. So, you will have to do some sort of like filtering. You're going to have to make decisions of to what you want in the navigation and what you don't want in the navigation. [[64:36]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=3876s) >> >> Yeah, I think we covered I think we covered most of it. oh, one thing that I see time and time again mistakes just when you make your navigation, make sure the link actually goes to the 200 status code page. So, on some bigger e-com sites, for example, Adidas, I've noticed where you might click on like men's like soccer jerseys, for example, but it will go to the page without the trailing slash, and that's going to redirect to the page with the trailing slash. And now you've got now that when you land on the page, it's a 301 redirect. So, just having someone having an SEO person or your marketing person just look at each URL in the navigation and make sure that it goes to the 200 status codes page. Otherwise, you're just duplicating one mistake across hundreds of pages on your site. [[65:22]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=3922s) >> Yeah. And for me, like one of the most common mistake that I see is like brands have like different items in menu for mobile and desktop. So, Google nowadays is like mostly crawling from mobile. So, if in your mobile menu you're linking to 10 collection pages, but your desktop menu is linking to 20 collection pages, Google is just assuming that your desktop site also links out to 10 because Google is crawling your mobile site mostly. So, you just you can be assuming that Google is passing page rank from home page to 20 collection pages. But actually, Google can't even see those 10 10 links. So, you just have to make sure that your menu and how many collection pages you're linking to is consistent across like menu mobile and desktop. [[66:05]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=3965s) >> How about like content strategy? And I actually I think we should talk a little bit more about like having points of authority, like you were talking about Gagan about where page rank is flowing from. >> Mhm. >> And putting thought into that. >> So, the most >> you have hub pages and yeah. >> So, I think the right strategy is to build a proper blog structure where you you are doing top of the funnel, middle of the funnel, and the bottom of the funnel. [[66:34]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=3994s) And nowadays, top of the funnel don't end up getting much traffic because people are just reading in chat GPT or other AI search surfaces. But still, I think it's worth it to build top of funnel some. And of course, like focus on middle middle of the funnel and the bottom of the funnel in terms of your blog strategy. Not to get ROI in 6 months or 1 year, but to just build your overall topical authority. And how about your other authority, like authority from the web, like David Krieger mentions is the ultimate ranking factor. So, where you should be building your backlinks and to your what pages. So, the most common question that comes up is like, should you building should you be building backlinks to your collection pages, your homepage, or your product page, or your informational pages? [[67:22]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=4042s) So, what I usually do is for this is like my personal approach. Others might differ. I tend to build like more backlinks to the collection pages. So, more backlinks to the collection pages than some to product pages, and then comes the informational pages. So, my approach is this where I want my collection pages to perform as well well as possible, and most amount of the backlink power should be going to those collection pages. And at the same time, internally on the site, I tend to build like more and more contextual in the body text main internal links to the collection pages to where I'm trying to pass as much page rank as possible to the collection pages. [[68:04]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=4084s) >> Yeah, I agree with what I can say. And I also think when you build backlinks for e-commerce stores or you buy them or whatever your method is, what kind of page is linking to what kind of page? So, for example, a product page, you want an affiliate style page to link to a product page where maybe the anchor text is like, you can buy whatever whatever on this on this page, right? That could be the anchor. But for a category page, it might be like, you can explore multiple products under this category here. [[68:33]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=4113s) The homepage is going to be more of a brand mention, like if you've got multiple products, you your local furniture this local furniture store. Like, this is the that would be that would be the anchor text. Also thinking about what kind of pages are linking to are linking to your to your categories and and kind of categories, your product pages, and your and your blog pages. Yeah, I think that's that's important. But naturally, I think if you have an affiliate program, and you're not doing too much link building, you're going to have more links going to your product pages anyway. I also think that's, you know, that's healthy and that's natural. [[69:10]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=4150s) That's healthy and natural, too. >> I'm a I'm a huge fan of what Multi describe or what PrettyLittleThing did with these like intent-driven category pages like airport outfits instead of instead of jeans. Because I mean, that was an 841% uplift. Again, every single item featured on these category pages sold out of stock. And so, I'm a I'm a big fan of finding these in these high-intent keywords to use for category pages and then actually just having like a simple subfolder or or a simple a simple page that links out to all these different scenarios. Airport outfits is a scenario that your product is using. [[69:49]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=4189s) And so, you can And you know, then you you can't scale this too much where you have to scale this as your authority also grows, but actually having a dedicated place for these scenarios. And maybe even putting that in your in your footer, somewhere like that. I'm a I'm a huge fan of that because it works it works so well because not a lot of people are targeting these scenarios as well. >> Yeah. >> And also like one of the thing that I see with most of the brands is like they think of SEO as a channel and then they are like, "You are doing your thing and it should be performing." Yep. [[70:25]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=4225s) But I feel like to any channel like email, SEO, Google Ads, you you have to bring some creative strategy to it. Like the airport thing that you mentioned, that is not SEO. That is a creative strategy coming to SEO and then SEO is get dri- driving the results. It's not like >> It could be It could be SEO. You could be doing keyword research and seeing the volume for airport outfits and and then looking at the serp and seeing that people aren't targeting it properly. [[70:52]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=4252s) >> But but that's outside of like standard SEO things like that you can do technical optimization and everything. So, you you are creative around like how you are doing SEO. You can be creative around like how you are doing Google Ads, which is like outside of the standard playbook, you know. So, this is something that also like brands should focus on and and many of the big big brands they have like large creative strategist teams like like you talked with the Gary Vee. So, they work with many big brands just only creative strategy like like how what should be creative strategy around SEO or Google Ads or social media and everything else. [[71:25]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=4285s) So, this is also something that brands should consider, you know. >> Gagan, I know you have to go in a in a couple of minutes. I just saw your message in in our in our group chat here. Do we have time to quickly talk about link building for e-commerce? Cool tactics to use to to build links and get authority? >> Yeah, sure. >> All right, let's go. So, so top link building tactics for e-commerce. Gagan, we'll start with you and then Harpreet and then we'll wrap. [[71:50]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=4310s) >> digital PR campaigns is is the best approach, especially reaching out to publishers who already have sub folders where they are covering fashion. If you're in fashion niche or travel or something like that. So, many publishers they are running specific sub folders covering specific topics which are related to e-commerce. So, running specific digital PR out outreach campaigns to get pages published on those domains is the best possible approach. And to do that either you can do outreach by yourself or maybe you can hire like a digital PR agency to get those links. And at the same time try to avoid like buying any sort of like shitty backlinks which are pointing to your collection pages or the product pages. Because if any negative value comes comes in then you lose revenue directly in three to four weeks by losing rankings. So, you just have to make sure that you are trying to get high quality links not like shitty ones which can like hit your revenue numbers in like three to four weeks. [[72:50]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=4370s) >> Yeah, I agree with Gagan. Yeah, 100% agree with Gagan. Digital PR is one of the best ways. example, if you umbrella stores, you sell it umbrellas, do a campaign around how this has been the rainiest year in the last 50 years. You look send it to your local journalists. They're going to write about it. They're going to They're going to link to you, preferably to your umbrellas category page, for example, right? getting a celebrity or getting even a minor celebrity to wear your product, endorse your product. [[73:18]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=4398s) I found that for some companies that is that does a really good job. Actually example from the World Cup, Haaland, Erling Haaland of Norway. He he bought something from a store in Texas, like some I think it was some sort of bottle and it had like, I don't know, some sort of animal on the bottle. But yeah, that store got so much mention in the media. So obviously that was organic, but you get where I'm going where if you can get a celebrity to be seen with your product, doesn't even have to be a big celebrity, it's a good way to get links from like, you know, smaller media media outlets. [[73:50]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=4430s) >> Right. Gentlemen, this was this so much fun. there's there's so much more we could talk about with e-commerce SEO. So for people have questions, please let us know in the comments. Gagan Gutra, Harpreet Singh, friends of the podcast, they will be back many, many times in the future and we will answer everybody's questions. So thank you again, gentlemen. This is episode 1,107 of the show, 1,107 days in a row doing this podcast. If you watch this on YouTube, thank you so much for watching. If you listened on Spotify or Apple Podcasts, thank you so much for listening. And I will talk to you again tomorrow. [[74:30]](https://youtu.be/T1y3_BLGqg8?is=7rIholi7MKHPw2C2&t=4470s) Bye now.