Parenting Through the Storm

0:01 Hello everyone. Welcome to a new episode of parenting and you with me Dr. Shafali. We all know how incredibly difficult parenting is even on the best day. What if you're going through a crisis though? What if you're going through something unimaginably traumatic? Then parenting becomes even more stressful, doesn't it? So many of us hit these huge crisis moments in our lives. You know, unpredictable moments.

0:33 A flood, a hurricane, a tornado, a war, a divorce, a huge big fight, or an abusive situation. All of these events can shake us up as parents and create tremendous uncertainty in our children. Well, if you are someone who has been through this or are going through this, well, then that's what this episode is all about. Joining me now is Denise. She lives in Israel and wants to know the best way to parent while going through a war. Hi Denise, welcome.

1:08 >> Hi Shafali. Thank you so much for having me. >> Oh my goodness. I can only imagine what you're going through as a parent. So why don't you tell me in your own words? >> Well, the last almost couple of years have been real surreal. We went through a lot of surreal situations and I think that the common denominator to all of them is that we were not safe. I mean I can go through the details of how it looked like like I think we know we can understand and I just want to caution our listeners that I'm not going to get into any political issue around Israel or Palestine. This is not about that. I'm just going to stay very connected to your personal experience of a mother trying to raise her children amid a crisis. I don't even want to give it other words because people have different words for this crisis. So your basic fear is that they're growing up with this constant threat perceived or real to them that they are not safe.

2:12 Right? You go down to bunkers. I know that. Right? There's sirens in the air. There explosions. There's fireworks, there's news all about, you know, threats and this is the culture of your time and you can see the effect I'm sure in your children. You grew up a little bit like that, right? This is a generational thing, but it seems very acute right now. Well, you know, for anybody who is raising children amid constant perceived or real threat, the impetus or the onus, the burden on the parent is even higher to be regulated, to be firm because you have to be firm, right? You have to go out to the bunker, you have to follow the rules, you have to listen to the sirens to be firm, but also to be very spacious in your receiving of their anxiety. Right? If you are anxious yourself, then you're not going to have the inner space to receive their anxiety, to allow for their anxiety. If mommy or daddy are going to be more anxious, then the children are going to, you know, receive that and feel that they need to suppress their authentic emotions. So, let me ask you, how are you handling your own anxieties?

3:29 >> I mean, sadly, it's a muscle I had to develop. So I can say that at the beginning my anxiety was pretty high. >> Yes. And I'm sure they felt it. I really don't see how I could do other I mean how I could do differently because it caught me like you know like a shock. I will always have the image in my head of the day that it all started my husband like standing in the door with one of my little boys in his hand and like get up.

3:58 I mean we need to go. So it's a muscle I had to develop. So at the beginning I was pretty anxious and as you know as each episode went by so I managed to kind of you know get better at it and not in a way that I'm you know suppressing my feelings because I'm going to feel my feelings okay >> and I want them to know that they can feel their feelings but >> at the same time being you know being intentional and conscious that there are little eyes looking at me and you know >> yes >> are perceiving the from my standing point.

4:33 >> Yes. >> So, yeah. So, it's been a journey and I think I've got better at it. >> Yes. >> Luckily, we're at the point where things are starting to calm down. >> Yes. >> And now my challenge is more about processing. >> Yes. >> And explaining because they have a lot of questions and a lot of tough questions. You know at the beginning I try to first of all you know neutralize news not you know being every time we wanted to watch the news he was in another room without them >> and you know trying to really separate them from the pictures because they're pretty impressive and basically as time went by they especially more accurately more my biggest he's like six year years >> Mhm. and he's a clever one.

5:24 >> He's a what if one >> he came to me with a lot of questions and I mean I can't really separate the war from him because the situation is everywhere. Even if I, you know, I don't let him watch the news. >> Yes. >> Mommy, why the picture of this baby woman? I don't know whoever is here. Who are they? What happened to them? >> Right. I hear what you're saying that it's everywhere. And you see this is the way culture creates trauma right so you're already in a trauma but governments cultures create propaganda to keep it going so it can keep going you know and now you are raising the next generation of Israelis or it doesn't matter Ukrainians Russians and we as parents have a responsibility for how the next generation views the situation and It's very hard. And this is how trauma gets repeated. You are watching it getting repeated literally in front of your eyes, right? And you as a parent have power because your children are young. Yes, they can see that image. They can hear the news. But you can create an alternate reality for them. It may not be as strong as the one by culture. It may not be this wrong as other Israelis will tell your children later, but you can make a decision and say, "I know everyone else is doing this and everyone else believes this, but we believe this." Now, whatever that is, I don't know. And we don't have to get into it, but you do have power is what I'm trying to say. And you are in a way very privileged that your children are so young. Really, you could protect them. You have protected them. So, there's some solace there. But for listeners listening in, how do we handle trauma with our children? And I'm just going to, you know, cut across to some universal principles so it can be relatable to everybody. We make sure we are regulated, right? And you said you're developing that muscle. You try to protect them from the propaganda and the news of culture and the trauma that culture loves to perpetuate so it can justify its own actions. You protect them. You try to provide an alternative viewpoint. You try to tell the child the whole world is thinking this way but I am asking you to think this way whatever that is you try to create normaly and the most important you try to create a safe space to feel feelings and to ask questions and to say I don't know so if your child says what if what if what if what if right what they're really saying is I feel scared I feel scared I feel scared so what you can say is yeah I ask the same question what if that happens But then I tell myself when that happens I will do this this this this this. So if it does happen I'll do this this this this this. So maybe with your children you do some role plays of all the resources they can count on and they can be artificial ones like we can call the police or we can call grandma or we can go to the teddy bear or we can wear our fancy suit and we can create these things because your children are young.

8:28 And when children are older and they ask what if? What if? what if and they start becoming obsessive. They just need a resource plan, right? So, for example, I was helping some people who went through the fires in Los Angeles. And I'm not comparing them. I'm just saying it was traumatic for them. And the best way I found to help people is to create a checklist of things they will do if it was to happen again. And that provides comfort. If it happens again, these are the 10 things we're going to do. We're going to grab our teddy bear. We're going to call grandma. We're going to drink some water. Even though they seem so silly, it gives children a sense of agency in a world that has taken away their agency. You see, when traumas happen, either man-made traumas like the one in Israel and Palestine or natural traumas like in LA, what it does to children is it makes them feel so helpless because as it is, they know they are dependent on their parents. But then now that safety is crushed and they feel like who will help me? Who will help my little cat? Who will help my dog? So giving them a checklist of things and maybe every week you guys do a little drill where they are the leaders and they tell you, "Mommy, get the cat. Mommy, pick up my jacket." Even if it's silly things that are really not going to help them, it'll give them a sense of renewed agency.

9:54 Agency is really what creates psychological despair. The lack of agency. So giving back agency will compensate for the perception that they are helpless. So ways in which you can give them agency in the house. You are in charge of the schedule tomorrow. You are in charge of what we eat tomorrow. You are in charge of picking out your clothes for the next week. You're going to tell mommy what movie we're going to watch. Now this seems so silly to us right but it is giving children a sense of agency and that is the number one thing we want to give back to children when they face a crisis even if it's in artificial ways and who cares what we eat for dinner kind of ways it gives them a perception of oh I do have control >> and whatever way you can offer them choice you get to choose what shoes you wear you get to choose do we go for gymnast astics at 5:00 or the 6:00 class, introduce it in a forced way because you are replacing all that agency that was stolen from them because of this trauma. Okay, so that is a very clear psychological strategy that you can use and anyone listening can use in their lives. You know, when I went through a divorce, I had to recreate agency for my daughter in that trauma.

11:18 So no matter how big the tea is, the big tea trauma or the small tea trauma, the common denominator is a lack of agency. And that equals psychological despair because the child translates it as I'm not important. My voice doesn't matter. Things are beyond my control. So in your little home, in the bathtub, you can create control. Do you want to play with these toys or that toys? You want to sit on this side of the bathtub or that side of the bathtub? Even though these seem so silly and inconsequential, wow, it's going to create so much mastery and control. So these are the things your regulation, you know, protecting them from propaganda, normalizing their feelings, creating a safe space for feelings and finding ways to institute control.

12:08 >> Got it? this is the only formula and otherwise we need to just let go and understand that this is also too much for anybody to handle. >> Yeah, I mean it does make a lot of sense and it it is basically consistent with with what we already have been doing in our house. So I mean I hope it did in in some way help them go through the situation. And there's a thing that you actually said in terms of separating them from specific views and thoughts and beliefs. And besides, you know, the fact that I want them to feel that the world as a whole, you know, it's not an unsafe place. Another thing that it's really important to me is that they don't become like hateful, you know.

12:54 >> Yes. Because as children it is I think that it simplifies you know their world if there are bad guys and good guys and you know I don't want them to think that people are inherently bad. You see you're such a beautiful person to even realize that but you know that adults do that and that's why children do that right? You know all the adults around you for the most part are in that way of thinking that duality. There's good and bad. And when you're on the side of the good, you feel really good and then you hate the bad. It makes life so much easier, doesn't it, Denise? So, I would encourage you that if you are surrounded by other adults who keep talking like that, >> that you make a choice to separate from them for the sake of your children's future mind because those infections will toxify your children's minds and they will pick it up from the adults around them. adults talk like that and you're going to have to make a hard call as a parent to separate and protect your children from even your mother maybe or your grandmother who may be talking like that because your children's future mind is in question now is in peril so I hope that helped Denise but if you have another question please feel free to ask >> yeah so my last question would be giving the you know they're not contaminated by other adults how do I support that you know insight without, you know, because it's a complex one. I couldn't find the words to explain it to them. And I don't know if it's even the time, you know, >> even though people act in ways that you don't understand, they typically are feeling some kind of pain inside. And we have to remember that when mommy yells, it's because she's feeling sad or she's feeling some pain. So on the surface it looks one way but you can draw the iceberg and say outside we are throwing things and we are having a tantrum and we can explain it by their behavior but inside they're very sad. So these people who've done mean things to us maybe they are also very sad inside and we can have compassion. Boom your child will get it.

15:06 But you can draw that iceberg outside we're all fighting but inside we're all very sad you know. And sometimes mommy does things that on the outside look like this, but inside she's just sad. And you're like that too. You can tell the children and that'll be a beautiful lesson. So whoever they think are the bad guys, you can draw that on the top of the iceberg and say, "Yeah, they look like they are really angry and they were so mean, but inside maybe they're very sad." And that will bring so much compassion for them. And that's really the way we should be looking at all situations. But it's hard for us to have that ability to be complex.

15:44 >> Yeah. >> Well, Denise, thank you for being so brave to come and talk about something that is so traumatizing and I can only imagine what you're going through as a mother and a feeling person. We feel for you and your family. Thank you so much for joining us. >> Thank you for having me. Thanks a lot. >> Wow. That mother is going through so much. But her story has wisdom for all of us because at some point or another in all our lives we hit a crisis whether it's a man-made you know crisis like a war or huge trauma like that or a natural disaster or maybe just a divorce or a fight at home that was traumatizing for the child. What I want everyone listening to realize is that there are things that we as parents can do in these difficult situations. And it all has to do with what I was telling Denise. We need to restore a sense of agency and control back in our children's lives. And we do that by allowing them to take charge of the choices that they make in their lives in small or big ways. We hand over their capacity to make their own choices back to them. And this will help our children to feel that in a world of chaos, a world of change and unpredictability, they do have agency. They will be heard and validated. They do have a safe space to express their emotions and they can take control over their lives.

17:21 Joining me now is Mona. She's a mother of two teen boys and wants help managing their screen time. Hi, Mona. I'm sure it's so hard to get your kids off their screens. >> Hi. Yes, definitely. I've been struggling with that. Like I mean, I've seen your workshop on screen addiction and where I really get stuck is I seen that acronym vent and I use that like validate, empathize, normalize, transform. But when it comes to transform, I kind of get stuck there.

17:50 >> Right. How old are they? I have 15 and 12 and a half. >> And how many hours on average are they watching games or are they playing games? What are they doing? >> Well, last year I had them like no screens at all, just Friday, Saturdays, and Sundays. But then, you know, when they get home, they're dying to do go on a screen. It's almost like plug in and then it's hard to get them off. But this year, I kind of was like, "All right, I let them have it during the week, like an hour to an hour and a half, and then, you know, I take it away." So, it's a little more manageable during the week, but on the weekends, I feel like we fall off.

18:26 >> And what is your fear about them being on these screens? What are you seeing in their behavior that worries you? >> I think like more disconnect, an hour and a half or an hour. I think it's a lot cuz I feel like, you know, even exercising for an hour and a half every day that I see such a big impact. >> Mhm. >> Them being on the screens and putting all that time. I'm like, if they were doing something else, it would be so much more useful. Or just like Yeah.

18:50 Going back to it, checking. Checking. >> Mhm. >> For my son, like my older one is better, but my younger one is very like strong willed. He's a strong willed child and he likes to have control of things. He's very dependent. So that's where it gets a little tricky for me making boundaries for him and setting the limits because he wants to be in control. >> Yeah. Well, he's actually in control but not in control, right? When he's on the screen, he's actually not in control.

19:18 So, it's an illusion. What I would say to you right off the bat is that the 12 and a halfyear-old is very young and I would have thought the problem was in the older kid, but it sounds like the younger kid has more of an issue or you have more of an issue with him. And I would just encourage you to re-examine your own ability to have a boundary with a strong willed child because you're not doing him any good by allowing him to be addicted to his screens at 12. 12 is very young and if he's already giving you a hard time at 12, he's going to give you a harder time at 13, 14, 15. So what happens inside mom? What happens inside you when he pushes back? Perhaps your older child did not push back so much.

20:06 >> He's more flexible. He's more to please. The other one is more of like stand up. He'll be like, "You're a hypocrite. You're on the phone, too. Sometimes if I take his phone away, he'll take mine." >> Yeah. >> And I'm like, "It's fine." >> Yeah. So, what happens inside you when he is so strong willed? What do you feel inside? Do you get scared? Do you second guessess yourself? Do you feel angry? Do you feel helpless? What is the feeling inside?

20:32 >> I just don't want him like to be so angry at me for like you know setting that limit. >> Right. So that's not a feeling. So the feeling is I don't want him to be angry. So when he is angry that makes you feel what? Scared >> a little. Yeah. >> You get scared that he will not love you because something is happening inside you that is making you doubt yourself. There's a fear there that makes you give in. Right? So when children are very bossy or very dominating and we are very sweet or very empathic, it feels like they are our father almost or they are the police or they are an adult. Do you feel that way that he is an adult in those ways and he has power over you >> in that ways? Yes, absolutely. And that is the problem why you're not able to create a boundary is because you know intellectually you've seen my workshop and you've read enough that 12 is very young to watch a lot of screens or to be on the video games for too long. So you're scared with the older kid. You're able to do it better because he's more compliant. He's more pleasing. With this one, he makes you feel like he's in control of you. That he is the adult. He is the police. He is the power. You give your power away.

21:46 >> Mhm. >> And he manages to intimidate you >> 100%. >> He makes you feel like a very small little girl. How old do you feel in those moments when he's telling you, "I'll take away your phone." How old do you become? Because you're a grown adult who needs her phone and should have her phone and he cannot tell you what to do with your phone. But in those moments, you feel he's outsmarted you. You feel he's tricked you and he's right. You feel he's right. So in those moments, you feel like a very little girl. How old do you think you become in those moments?

22:22 >> Eight. >> Yeah. Did anything happen to you in your childhood when you were around 8 years old or when you were young? Did you grow up with a bossy parent? My parents were kind of bossy, but they were also like kind of like once I hit my like I guess 12, 13, they were kind of like hands off so much of it because I was like a strong willed child too. I remember at one point my dad said to me like >> I don't have the energy for this.

22:46 >> So maybe that's what's happening to you. Maybe you're feeling I don't have the energy for this. >> Right. >> And because they were hands off with you, you're confused. You're thinking maybe you should be hands off with him. >> I feel that. I feel that at this age just because my parents once I started high school they were kind of like hands off. It's almost like they were done parenting me in a way. >> Right. Right. And maybe that's why you don't know how to parent him now because you're like maybe I should just let him be an adult. But here's the thing. He's not an adult. Number one, your parents should not have stopped parenting you.

23:19 But number two, they were parenting you in a very different time. >> Yes. Absolutely. So now we have these drugs available >> and you are exposing your child to a drug. So I'm sure your parents wouldn't have done that. >> I'm inviting you to continue your parenting and not just be hands off because this is a drug and he is not an adult and he's certainly not your adult. He's not an adult more than you. But in those moments you're going hands off.

23:52 You're backing off, but also you are acting like he's an adult, >> right? >> And he's not the boss over you. He cannot tell you what to do at 12. >> Mhm. >> But you're giving up all your power. So, it's not the screens. Tomorrow, it could be something else. But it's even more dangerous because it's the screens. Because the screens are not a positive impact, not a positive influence on your kids. And in your conscious mind, you wouldn't let him touch a drug.

24:24 >> But somehow you're okay letting him touch a screen. >> Mhm. Well, I felt like, you know, for me, this is where I give into the screens where, you know, I moved to USA when I was like 17. And, you know, like being constantly out of the loop what's going on with the friends, with the shows and with stuff, you know, and I'm kind of like I don't want them to be out of loop what's going on, >> right?

24:45 >> That's where I kind of give in. >> I love that. I want kind of fit in in some way and understand what people are talking about. >> Yes. I love that. That is so powerful, isn't it? >> So powerful. >> Yeah. Because you were out of touch. You don't want them to be weird or ostracized or out of the group and all their friends are doing it. So you want to make them feel like they belong >> to American culture.

25:10 >> But then on the other hand, it's a torture because knowing you know what I know and what I learned. >> Yes. kind of like going with that like kind of like yo-yoing in between. >> Yes. But you have to realize the old part of you that was traumatized by being in America and out of touch that is the one that is allowing him to be on screens. It's coming from a reaction to your trauma. The new part of you that is sensible, aware, and in touch knows that screens are bad. So which one are you going to listen to? the old reactive, you know, trauma place or the new wise conscious place. Which place are you going to come from?

25:49 >> Do you understand? One is an old traumatic place and one is a conscious place. So at least at the very least you can create more of a balance, more boundaries. you you don't have to take them out of the loop, but you can certainly stand up to your kid and not come from a traumatized place of your own parents' child who was let go of at 12 years old or the traumatized 17-year-old who was out of touch with the culture. So that is very traumatized and you are then having zero boundaries.

26:21 So, what I'm encouraging you to do now that you know that you're coming from trauma, you can at least start to stand up to your child and create some more boundaries. >> Mhm. >> And you can say to your child the next time he says, "Well, I should take your phone and you're a hypocrite." You can say to him, "Well, then why don't you take care of the house, do the laundry, be an adult, >> and then you won't be a hypocrite."

26:45 Right? Different rules for different ages. You can tell him that. I have different rules. When you're my age, you can have my rules. And when you're your age, you have to live with these rules. >> Mhm. >> And if you're in your power, at least he will back off a little bit. But right now, he's getting you because you're coming from a traumatized place. >> And I'm aware of it, too. >> Fantastic. So now you can begin to work on that and create more boundaries, right? And that's what trauma does. Old trauma makes us doubt ourselves. Even though the new conscious part of you is very aware of you've taken my workshop, you are trying to create boundaries but you get confused because there's an old part in you that is taking over. So I am very impressed by your consciousness and your awareness. Now you need to just in the moment work on that in a more assertive way.

27:39 >> So I hope that helped you. >> No, absolutely. No, 100%. 100% and seeing how I keep giving in >> and now you know why. Now you know it's not because you're a bad parent, not because he needs the screens. In fact, it's not even about the screens. It is that old part in you that is reacting to that trauma in your life and you're projecting it onto their life. >> But just the way like the screens are designed, I realize what a competition I am against.

28:09 >> Yes. And I've been trying to like implement like what I learned from your workshop and now I'm like well instead of telling get off the screen now I'm like oh I really miss you you know want to hang out with you and he does come. >> Yes >> they do listen and like you said they do like oh you better be available when you take the you better be available. >> Yes. Yes. So just to wrap up I'm going to just highlight the two points you made which are such important points which I cover in my workshop. Number one, instead of just telling your kids to get off the screens, create the antidote, right? Become the person that they want to be with more than the screens.

28:47 >> They go to screens because they want to feel significant. They want to feel successful. They want to be safe. And now if you create that, they will come toward you at least till they are 16 or 17. Children want to be with their parents. And the other point that you may make is that you need to be available, right? If you want them off the screens and they come to you and you're not available, they're looking for connection. So, are you able to be available with your children and be present? Because many of us use the screens as a nanny and a distraction.

29:18 So, beware if you take away their screens, you have to show up. So, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and for being here with us. >> Thank you. Such a pleasure meeting you. >> Oh my goodness. Creating boundaries is so difficult for some of us because of our past childhood issues. As you saw with this mother, she knows what she needs to do. She knows what is the right thing. But somehow our past emotional baggage from our childhood just sneaks in there and stops us in our tracks. I cannot tell you how many times I have wanted to create boundaries with my child. But some fear, some emotional remnant of a wound from childhood creeps in and I become paralyzed. And I too, like I'm encouraging this mother to do, had to go back into my childhood and ask myself, what am I so afraid of right now? And inevitably, I would find what the source of that fear was and realize that that was standing in my way of creating healthy boundaries with my child. Boundaries are difficult for all people, but more so for highly empathic people pleasers who grew up wanting the approval of others. And that same child who wanted the approval of their parents turns into someone who wants the approval from their children. In this mother's case, she wanted the approval of her culture. And so now she looks at giving into her child's screen time as a way for the children to get into the culture and be approved by their peers.

30:57 You see how our past issues always sneak in. Well, this is all a learning, all an unfolding. We can never get to the perfect destination of being the perfectly conscious parent. We just have to keep trying and keep showing up. If you enjoy the way I work with these parents and you want more of this guidance in your own life, well, maybe you will explore my conscious community. It is called the conscious circle. In this community, I provide a safe sanctuary of infinite guidance and wisdom. I have workshops and webinars and free past workshops that I offer you so that you can grow as a conscious parent. Plus, you get the support of an amazing like-minded community. So, check out the show notes below, click on the link, and join the conscious circle.

31:47 Thank you so much for listening to this episode, and I hope I see you on the next episode of parenting and you with me, Dr. Shafali. Parenting and you with Dr. Shafali is for educational andformational purposes only. It is not intended as a substitute for professional medical, psychological, psychotherrapeutic, coaching, health care, or other qualified professional advice, diagnosis, or treatment.