Transcript
0:18 >> Hello, welcome back to the Best News TV podcast. We don't want to Robinson. >> I am Rob Mahoney. >> We're here to talk about Cape Fear. >> Spooky. >> Ooh. the first two episodes of Cape Fear did a double premiere drop. So, if you missed that and only watched the first episode, we're going to be talking about both episodes. You might want to go watch them and then come back and listen to us talk about it.
0:38 >> I would advise it. >> Rob Mahoney, big picture, did you like these episodes of television? >> You know what I did? I am intrigued. >> Okay, tell me. >> I think look, on a on a line-by-line level, sometimes it can be a little blunt, sometimes the dialogue can be a little on the nose. I think it gets the most important Cape Fear thing right, which is like the bone-chilling unsettledness of this kind of story. >> -huh.
1:00 >> I'm unsettled. I'm sufficiently unsettled. >> Okay, so the source material that we're working with here is there's a 1957 novel by John MacDonald called The Executioners, >> Yes. >> which I have procured but not cracked yet. I did rewatch the 1962 film with Gregory Peck and Robert Mitchum, and I did rewatch the 1999 1991 film from Martin Scorsese with Robert De Niro, have you heard of him? Nick Nolte, Jessica Lange, Juliette Lewis. Both Juliette Lewis and Robert De Niro got Oscar nominations for that.
1:28 >> phenomenal in it. >> Extraordinary. And then of course the 1993 episodes of The Simpsons, Cape Fear. >> >> Well, we should we should the first three are all credited as being the basis for this show. >> Right. >> I I don't think I've ever seen that before. The base like based on this novel and these two movies? >> But if Nick Nick Antosca, who's the showrunner of of this version, I think if he's being honest with himself, >> Yeah.
1:54 >> he should credit The Simpsons as well. Cuz that is a phenomenal episode of The Simpsons. >> Let's add it to the list. >> I think it was my first exposure to the story of Cape Fear was that episode of The Simpsons with Sideshow Bob. >> Amazing. >> Stalking. Have you seen it? >> seen it. It's been a a minute. I'm going to be honest with you. >> I think it's maybe my favorite episode of The Simpsons. He sings Gilbert and Sullivan. He steps on a bunch of rakes.
2:14 >> Wow, it really is hitting all of your touchstones. >> >> all right, so this is what so the question is why? Why do we need a 10-episode show based on a book and two movies and perhaps an episode of The Simpsons that were already quite well regarded and phenomenal. Do we need to tell this story again? And I think it is interesting to track this 1950s novel, this 1960s movie, this 1990s movie and the way in which the story has slightly mutated over those many adaptations to reflect and this is what Nick Antosca has said in several interviews sort of to reflect the anxieties of the era.
2:53 Every era gets its own Cape Fear. >> Yeah. >> and what does it say about the the decade that it is sort of exploring. And you know, Martin Scorsese talked about that as well where he was just sort of like I am remaking a movie that I regard very highly. It's sort of a kind of a B movie and his version his Cape Fear is not really like any other Martin Scorsese movie. it's what years ago my my pal David Ehrlich in in regards to the film Gone Girl I don't know if he coined this phrase, but the phrase he used was trashterpiece.
3:33 Like something that is like >> Yeah. >> great but also schlocky at the same time. And like Martin Scorsese's Cape Fear is a absolute stone cold trashterpiece. And all three movies or the two movies and the TV show are using the exact same score. So that they're like bum bum bum. Like that is the Cape Fear score. It slaps. >> And then this show, right away when we get this sort of photo negative imagery that opens episode one of this show, you know, or the the pool is colored red instead of blue. that's a direct visual connection to the Scorsese film.
4:13 >> Also, we get the the shot in episode two of Max's eyes through the slats of the closet. That's like basically ripped from the poster. >> Absolutely. So, do you want to talk about sort of what our plan is to talk about this really well-known story Cape Fear in a way that people are watching the show maybe haven't seen any of these movies or or read the book or watched that Simpsons episode. you know, what's what is a spoiler inside of this context?
4:40 >> I genuinely don't know. That wasn't a conversation I was expecting to have about Cape Fear based on the idea of it. if you're not familiar with the movies, I would not describe them as particularly twisty. Like it's it's a somewhat straightforward story. >> Right. >> but within this adaptation, I think we're introducing all sorts of uncertainty as far as what actually happened with the inciting incident, which I believe in both movies and the novel, it's a rape that Max Cady has committed. and specifically, I think in some adaptations of an underage girl.
5:09 That's been now changed to his wife, his pregnant wife has been murdered. Presumably by him, but then also exonerated and released from prison. so there's some uncertainty around what happened. There's some uncertainty around the actual trial that led him and the plea bargain that apparently sent him to prison in the first place. And I got to say, maybe he has a point as far as being a little bit mad that the prosecutor and his defense attorney ended up married.
5:34 I'm I'm not saying he's a great guy, but I I too would be a little fussed. >> Robert De Niro, Max Cady had some good points. >> Not saying that. >> Max Cady is one of the most iconic like on-screen psychopaths. >> Yes. >> you know, played incredibly by both Robert Mitchum and Robert De Niro. And to get Javier Bardem, who has already played one of our most iconic on-screen psychopaths. >> Several, I would say. >> what's your list?
6:01 >> I mean, I think I think Skyfall might be included, too. >> You're Okay. >> Not Not quite as iconic as >> >> Anton Chigurh. No. >> Okay. >> I do think this version in in its deviations from the De Niro one especially, which is like a functionally illiterate man who is like malicious and evil. And this version is more verbal in the way that Javier Bardem characters tend to be. >> that's interesting because like Anton Chigurh is pretty nonverbal, right?
6:27 >> That's true. I guess I guess he goes both ways. >> so here's here's what's interesting. We're not going to talk about sort of like the ending of Cape Fear, I guess is is what we're we're going to stay away from. >> And for the record, we don't know the ending of the series. >> Right. And we talked about this a lot with Presumed Innocent, where Rob didn't know the story of Presumed Innocent, I did. We were so careful about that, and then that version of that story was completely different at the end. So, how far off the map are they going to go with this version?
6:56 There's already so many differences. But, I do want to talk about this core difference across all the adaptations, which is as we go forward in time and as our world gets more complex, perhaps, this blurring of the lines of morality lines, you know, it is increases. >> So >> in the in the 1962 film, we have cast Gregory Peck as Sam Bowden, the the attorney. >> >> Atticus Finch himself, like just the most upstanding citizen possible. And it is Sam Bowden, family man, and his lovely family.
7:33 And what happens when this elemental evil, as represented by Robert Mitchum, comes to town and and destroys your our I just recorded an episode of The Rewatchables that's part of this From Hell month that Bill is doing. And this is the sort of the his overreaching concept of From Hell, which is like this element has entered your home and is here to destroy it. >> And is distinctly uncomplicated in some ways. Like it's just like a Night of the Hunter style like this is evil incarnate.
8:02 >> This is why you get Robert Mitchum to do this, right? Okay, so in '91, of course, as he's like, let's complicate it a little bit, okay? So in his version, Nick Nolte's character of Sam Bowden has buried some evidence in the case. He believes Max Cady did the crime. We believe Max Cady did the crime. We believe that ultimately justice was served in sending Max Cady to prison. But is De Niro's version of that character right when he's like, "Hey, did you bury some evidence in my case, attorney?" so >> saying Max Cady has some points now.
8:35 >> I'm saying Scorsese was like, wouldn't it be interesting if Max Cady studied the law and he is actually the one who's like, here's the letter of the law. And Nick Nolte's attorney character is like, I'm bending the law slightly to serve this greater idea of justice. Also, Nick Nolte's character in that version of the film, is a philanderer. You know what I mean? Like has these various flaws. He is not a Gregory Peck type. He is like a you know, he's a husband and a dad but they had to leave town because he too many women and like, you know, he's got a a relationship of a sort with Illeana Douglas and all this sort of going on.
9:12 So that's the slightly different thing. Now we get to this version of Cape Fear where, as you pointed out, Max Cady is not released because he served a sentence, he's released because he is exonerated. there is some question. I don't have any questions about this, but the TV show is asking some questions about whether or not Max Cady actually did the crime. >> Right. >> I think he did. I think there's evidence inside of episodes that he did, but you know >> he did. But I I think the thing that plays, whether you're talking about the 50s or the 60s or the 90s or today, even you know, you're updating, you're modernizing, you're changing the framing, but that like core idea of the plausible deniability. Of Of like, I'm just I'm just around. I just happened to be in the neighborhood. I'm just like, I'm an innocent bystander. I have this airtight alibi, and it turns the core attorney characters into this like position of what if I can see the thing that no one else can see >> Right. And no one believes me.
10:06 >> And the law there's a limit to what the law can do for me. >> Absolutely. >> And so what what do I do when the when the structures that I believe in fail me. And And that's what's so fun about De Niro's Max Cady, especially, is because he has studied the law. He's like, "Oh, I'm not on your property. Oh, I'm you know, like" he's using the law to get away with all the that he gets away with, right? Okay. So, in this version, we have no Sam Bowden. It's Anna and Tom Bowden.
10:33 two attorneys. And as you alluded to, she was his defense attorney, he was the prosecutor. >> It's messed up. It's bad. >> It is up. The optics are bad. >> Very bad. So, we've got you know, I I was talking to you a bit about this last week, where I was wondering if cuz I could tell that they had made Amy Adams into sort of like she was the defense attorney, which is the role that these other Sam Bowdens have played. But I was like, so is Patrick Wilson just going to be the the like the Jessica Lange interior designer husband or whatever it is that she she's an artist. I don't know, whatever it is she does. no, they're both attorneys. So, they sort of split the role across these two characters. Patrick Wilson and Amy Adams are here. But they have this like you know, they they look around. Do you ever think we don't deserve this? They have this like picture-perfect home.
11:20 They've got a up kid or two. They've got a lot of se- They've got so many secrets. >> mean, it's almost like the glitching picture frame is a metaphor for the the of their suburban existence. >> What is the metaphor? What is the storm a metaphor for? >> >> Clunky writing, unfortunately. That one was tough. >> >> okay, so we've got lawyers who have you know, at least had like each other during the case, probably got married afterwards. What was the deal? They They say this very ominous thing in in episode two that their daughter overhears, which is like "We had to do the thing that we did."
11:57 What was it? We don't know yet because there's so many mysterious questions, and we're going to run down all of the open questions because they have stretched, you know, Nick Antosca has decided to stretch this story from a two-hour cinema masterpiece trashterpiece into a 10-episode television series. And this is the thing I'm most worried about. And honestly, Javier Bardem sounded a little bit worried about it because in an interview with Entertainment Weekly, they're like, "What's the the thing you were sort of like most >> Yeah.
12:27 >> anxious about?" He was like, "People getting bored." >> Yeah. >> This is 10 episodes with Max Cady. It's not a two-hour jaunt around, you know, the South with Max Cady. You are spending 10 hours with him. So, how can I add shading and nuance and whatever to him? Is he still this sort of elemental evil character that Robert Mitchum and Robert De Niro have played? >> Yes. >> Yes, but like does he have you know, the De Niro version has a charm to him.
12:59 >> Certainly. >> But this version is even smoother and even in terms of like who he is seducing and who he is fooling, it's a much wider swath. I really loved the scene in episode two when he's touring the house and he's talking to the real estate the realtor or whoever he's talking to. >> knows how to wear a linen suit, that's for sure. >> Absolutely. But he's like And that's the thing is like unlike Well, I would say Mitchum's Max Cady blends, but unlike De Niro, he blends, right? De Niro is wearing like loud shirts and has like a bikini girl lighter and is as like crass as crass can be. And this is not the the smoothie Max Cady that we're getting here. But the way that he's like goes off on his rant about whatever it is he's like "Oh, but that's not the world you live in, my dear. Like I will get you the information you want." And it's just sort of like he's unsettling, but like you understand why these various characters perhaps most frustratingly CCH Pounder's character are taken in and sort of enamored by him.
14:01 >> this is the smartest of the adaptive choices we've seen so far. Some of it we're going to have to see how it pays off, like where it goes, like what the secrets are within, you know, the two lawyers and their marriage and all that. The choice to kind of cloak Max Cady in the fight for social justice, I think is a really smart decision. And just the idea of like what does it mean when someone is released from prison in 2026 because they were seemingly wrongfully imprisoned in like how do how do people treat him? What does he get pulled into?
14:27 And I think structurally, if you're trying to make a TV show, you need ways that he and Anna can be in the same spaces. >> Yes. >> Logically, without her wanting to call the police at all times. And so, him becoming like whether by accident or by crook, like almost the face of her organization, I think it's just like a really smart way to integrate this really menacing element into her world. >> And I think to start with in episode one at the gala when she is talking about the flaws in the the justice system. So, she's already starting from a place of the just like my whole life's work is to talk about how flawed the justice system is. And so, but where does the rubber meet the road in terms of those values when it comes to someone like Max Cady?
15:08 And she's like, "No, but I know that he is you know, evil. I know this to be true." And that's different from your Gregory Pecks who's like, "I believe in the law. I believe in law and order." And when like various people are like, "We could do this shady thing." And he's like, "No, we have to go by the letter of the law." In in episode one, we meet this sort of investigator character who works for Anna's organization is played by The Wire's Jimmy Hector, Ray Rollins. And she introduces him, she's like, "Here's Ray Rollins. He does what the cops can't or won't do." You know, we are we already work outside the law. That's what we do.
15:45 >> I I think all of that is interesting. I do. >> And even like when the two interns meet at that point, they're introducing, I believe his name is Byron, the other guy who they have recently helped get released from prison, who ends up mysteriously killed or dead. >> mysteriously? >> Well, I mean, who There were gunshots, there was fighting. I think we have an inkling as to what goes on, but again, plausible deniability all around.
16:05 >> has an airtight alibi. >> But the two interns who come to meet him are like like oh talking about his lived experience and like the broken system. It's like all of this language that we use today to try to understand those broken systems is like being weaponized against presumably Anna and Tom as they try to protect their family and understand what kind of risk they're really in. >> I think another needle here is when Ted Levine as as Anna's father shows up and Brandon Devereaux. Oh, by the way, we're in Savannah.
16:36 >> Got to be Devereauxs involved. >> And Toussaint. >> Yeah. >> That's CCH Pounder as Noah Toussaint. So, you've got Toussaints and Devereauxs. Like we're living, we're thriving. >> Where was Blanche Devereaux from? Was she Was she from Savannah? >> She's from Georgia, yeah. >> Got to be. We we have to do some deeper Golden Girls research. Try to tie the the narrative Oh my god, is one of these characters Big Daddy? >> Great question. but I think that I think having her father show up and call Tom and Anna country club liberals is another sort of like brick in the building we're we're creating here. also, in terms of the anxieties that Nick Antosca's like, "Okay, here What are the specific anxieties of the 1960s, of the 1990s and and the nows and and what he's clearly latched on to for better or for worse is this tech anxiety right now. So, you know, are there predators in your schools is a 1990s question that Martin Scorsese's asking, right?
17:36 is someone catfishing your teenage you know, is a man you sent to prison catfishing your teenage son? Is your security system has it already been hacked? You know, all of these tech ways that you know, the idea that like De Niro's Max Cady went to prison and studied the law and it feels like Javier Bardem's Max Cady went to prison to study tech. >> I mean I have many questions. If if he isn't in fact responsible for everything we've seen so far. I I kind of wonder if the answer might be he is in some things and other ones are coincidental circumstantial.
18:10 >> some. >> The one that I like is almost the biggest logical jump for me is like how did this man who's been in prison for 17 years become a very good like World of Warcraft player to the point where he would bond with a teenager or do you even have to be if you're smooth talking? >> you get to play video games in prison? >> They have wow in there? They have subscription-based MMORPGs? I don't know, man.
18:31 Maybe they do, maybe they don't. Maybe prison has really changed. >> I don't I don't know. I actually don't know the answer to that, but I feel like you have internet access in in prison, so >> Maybe that's all it takes. >> Great questions. Do you want to do a mini nepo baby check-in for this? >> we simply have to for every show now. >> Okay. Joe Anders who plays Zach Boden, their son, that is the son of Kate Winslet and >> Wow.
18:57 >> Yeah. So, it's Sam Mendes. Yeah. So, that's that's one. >> That's one. What else we got? >> Anna Baryshnikov who plays the reporter who who is integral in the first two episodes, Tabitha, is Mikhail Baryshnikov's daughter. >> Let's talk about this reporter for a second. >> Okay. >> If I were reporting a story, as I often have, >> Yeah. >> and the person I was interviewing wound up with a family of dead skunks in their pool, >> Yeah.
19:20 >> that's the lead. >> Like, I'm sure it was. >> the story. There is no like this was off the record. >> Come on, the dead skunks. You got a cameraman there. This is a dream assignment all of a sudden. >> Absolutely. >> Especially now that all this evidence is coming out, like this man's released from prison, you're just sitting on the dead skunk lead? >> I do really appreciate that Anna Bowden is so media-trained that she's like so careful about what's on the record, what's off the record. She's like, you didn't say it. So, let's be clear, this is off the record.
19:47 >> Pretty pretty well done by her. >> not in the brief. We said we were not talking about this. We were not And she was like play She's like, I'm sure you didn't see it. I'm sure you did, >> Again, plausible deniability all around. >> this. So, yeah, the How does that tech anxiety play for you? >> it's a little of both. I will say of all the characters we've had so far, Zach feels the shakiest as far as like his place within the story. I think the part of it that is the online gaming catfishing, that part I'm along the ride for. the idea that he has leaked these like presumably nudes of this girl to his group chat, that feels like something a show like this could explore and get into. Its treatment we can dissect.
20:26 It's It's the like Tik Tok AI slop version of Max Katie's unborn son that he is now, I believe, hallucinating walking about. When it was just the AI slop video, I was like, okay, this is like ghoulish, but honestly believable. now that he's become a sentient walking hallucination, I don't know. >> So, that leads into something else I want to talk about for sure. But, I I will say I watched episode one, then I watched episode two like much later, and I had forgotten about the AI slop part.
20:56 So, when he hallucinated Max Katie's son, I was like, are we doing real ghosts here? Is that what's happening? And then I rewatched episode one, I was like, oh no, he saw the AI slop version of him. But, Adam Katie, what Adam Katie would look like had he lived. >> Right. >> I want to talk about so we've got this this tech paranoia, right? What if you're, you know, and Max Katie, the tattoos are interesting to me because De Niro very consciously made wanted, you know, and he's talked about this, wanted to make sure all of the tattoos on his body were, you know, specific biblical references. So the iconography and, you know, he's got like passages long passages on his arms and stuff like that.
21:35 With with this version of Max Katie, he's got the the Grim Reaper, which is same same as as De Niro's eyes. >> Whoever did the ink. >> Yeah, but the eyes everywhere. And so in terms of this like tech surveil- like or is there another spiritual meaning to that? And that brings me into what I want to say, which is like alongside this this Max Katie tech genius aspect is like Max Katie like voodoo practitioner? >> Yeah.
22:05 >> Okay, because in both the mistress who shoots herself in the head twice while listening to the Cranberries in the opener >> Yes. >> and in the possum-infested den where Zach ingested his own toe at one point or was forced fed his own toe. >> I mean, maybe the possum was doing the witchcraft. >> There's like bowls and seeds and >> Candles and >> stuff like that and it's just like it's meant to invoke some sort of like >> It could just be an acai bowl.
22:36 >> Absolutely not. >> >> You don't think so? >> It's meant to invoke like witchcraft. >> and you got something going. >> So like is Max Katie, in addition to like hacking your security system, also casting spells? Is that what's happening? >> I don't know. I would say we get two very distinct impressions of him over the course of these episodes. One, particularly with the cold open of episode two the physical threat of who he is is made very clear. Right? This is not a man who you're just going to see looming in the shadows. Like he up these Nazis who try to jump him.
23:08 >> And we love it. >> Look, we we do love to see that part. And honestly, I do think escalating both what we see Max being capable of in terms of his physical strength and like ability to hurt someone, but also what the show is willing to show us. >> Right. >> Like a Nazi gets his head impaled on a bench press bar. Another one gets a kettlebell to the knee. And and then we see Zach like with the I mean, he's just >> vomiting his toe.
23:30 >> We We just put Euphoria to bed, and here we are again with just like severed toes and Nazis. Can we not escape? >> However, Rob, Nick Antosca, did you look at his credits? >> Yeah. >> So, he did The Act and Candy. Like the two big things that he's done is The Act and Candy, both true crime adaptations for Hulu, I believe. >> Yes. >> well received, whatever. He was a writer on Hannibal. >> He was.
23:52 >> So, >> Most notably for season 3, I believe. >> People are eating toes. Is this not back in your Hannibal pocket? >> a prime cut. It's not your It's not your first choice, I wouldn't think. >> Doctor Lecter would never. >> That's what you you know, that's for like the sausaging, you know? >> Think of it as a baby carrot. >> Okay, I'm I'm glad you brought up the baby carrot. We're trying to figure out how we want to cover this show. If it's going to be something we do week to week. We don't really know. Email us, comment wherever you're watching this. Let us know if this is something you want to keep up with week to week.
24:21 >> prestigetv@spotify.com. Regardless, >> Regardless, >> I would like for us to create an email for this show as we return to it. Think of a baby carrot at gmail.com is right there for us. >> What are your other options, Rob? >> babybirdthespliff@gmail.com >> Okay. >> possumwitch@gmail.com or possumbasedwitchcraft@gmail.com. backyard cougar, fishing for skunks, the system of you, or dipped in handsome. How do you feel about any of those? >> handsome was such a good phrase. >> Incredibly descriptive of Patrick Wilson in particular.
24:54 >> Very very key. I wrote that down both times I watched the episode. I think it's got to be think of a baby carrot. >> Let's Let's do a quick double-check. >> Okay. Okay, so through the magic of editing and perhaps Cameron, who's editing this podcast, can put it down here at the bottom. Think of a baby carrot at gmail.com is how you can reach us to let us know. >> happy about it and also was very upset at that line of dialogue.
25:17 >> I love a baby carrot. >> Do you still? >> It's the jar for me. Zack, I'm not a fan of There should I should say this is there is a sun character in the book. >> Mhm. >> There has been no sun character in the two movies. So, we're we're adding back in people. Let's Let's Let's go through character by character. >> Okay. >> And talk about all the mysteries and questions we have around these characters.
25:43 >> There are so many. >> Let's start with Max Shreck himself. Javier Bardem. Blue contacts, why? >> They're very unsettling. I honestly think this is part of it. Like this character needs to have kind of an uncanny thing to him. And if he's going to be a little smoother in terms of his working with people, our familiarity with Javier Bardem being like turned against us but like there's just something off looking at him. I honestly think it's part of the package.
26:10 >> I also wonder if it's meant to match Amy Adams' eyes, which are the way the the color grading is working on the show. They're like ultramarine. They're like really popping. And so, if if you know, I think the promo image is like their two faces sort of blurring into each other. So, if the point is to be like two sides of the same coin, we're not so different, you and I, like having these matching eyeballs might be part of that, too.
26:34 >> Speaking of, we got far afield with the baby carrot of all this. the physical presence of Max Shreck is part of it. But you asked about like the whether he's actually invoking some kind of witchcraft or magic or like what is making him such a good manipulator. I don't know the cause, but like clearly he is established as someone who can get people to do all kinds of things. >> Well, his father was a dog trainer.
26:55 >> Yep. >> And so I'm wondering how much of this is like the dog tr- you know, cuz we got in the flashback we see that his father put him in a cage among other things and trained him, you know, so through like behavioral cues or whatever like in terms of like how did he get Zach to eat his own toe or whatever when he wasn't even there? Like you know, are there you know, can he call someone as it seems like he does with his mistress and and say certain things and get you to something cuz he's trained you. He's hypnotized you or whatever.
27:25 >> suggestion? Is it Is it some kind of witchcraft? Is it just like a more conventional kind of humanistic manipulation? I don't know. >> I don't know, but those bowls are >> He's doing stuff. I don't know what it is leading to. >> When Anna, and we'll get to all of our questions about Anna, but when Anna saw those bowls at first I was wondering if she would recognize them from like stuff that Max Katie had done before, but she seemed when she asked her daughter she's like, "Do you know what all this is?" Why aren't they making a bigger deal out of like the witchcraft that's in their dad?
27:56 >> I don't know. I feel like if somebody if I found evidence of random hexes in my unfinished room, I'd be a little freaked out. >> Also, finish that room. It feels like it's like exposed to the outdoors. >> Apparently. The possum's just living in there and we're firing contractors left and right? >> Blue contacts on Javier Bardem. >> Yep. >> Dog trainer father. Some weird around Christianity and his father as well, obviously. >> Clearly. >> eyeball tattoos, facility with tech brain damage, glitches, sees his dead wife and son.
28:26 >> Yeah. And the glitches seem to I mean, sometimes coincide with like flashes of light or things like that as all happens for a lot of people with a lot of different conditions. >> Yeah. >> I don't know what the spasming out is going to ultimately lead to, but it does make it particularly terrifying when you when you've seen what he can do. >> Yeah. >> The idea that he would be out of control for even a second. And this is to me what's the most terrifying thing about him with all of this plausible deniability, right? Like you have this revelation in episode two where Amy Adams' character is like connecting the dots between the text from Angel X and like something that Max Cady has said. Yeah.
29:01 And it's like if all of these things that she believes are true, then he's like so far ahead. He's laying the seeds in like the conversations and the speeches. It's like >> He's like catch up. >> Completely. It's like it's it's so terrifying to think that you could be that far behind. And yet I feel like Javier Bardem kind of sells that sort of intelligence. >> Mr. Policeman, I gave you all the clues. Okay. >> Fingers and toes. It was right there.
29:26 >> And a boat in. got silver at one point. >> Yeah. >> After the trial. >> That was kind of a like a throwaway line. >> But I think very important. >> Almost like ADR'd in, it felt like. >> loose cannon, potentially bipolar father has a bad relationship with him. >> Yes. >> And here's a seed I'm going to plant. Again, I have not watched past episode two. I believe she Max Cady. And I think her daughter is his biological daughter. That's what I think.
30:00 >> That would be a a hellscape of a show. I >> Well, here's what here's my thought. Okay, so one of the creepiest the creepiest things I think. Well, it's a long list, but Max Cady in the various versions creeps around the teenage daughter. This is like his thing. This is why De Niro and Juliette Lewis were nominated for Oscars. >> Right. >> by the way, 1991. I saw an interview that Scorsese gave in '92 or '93 perhaps, where he was talking about the scene between De Niro and and Juliette Lewis in the school in the original.
30:37 Where he comes and he's like seducing her. >> Yeah. >> And he like sticks his finger in her mouth and then he kisses her. >> Yeah. >> first of all, so Juliette Lewis was 17 playing younger. She's wearing like a retainer, it's very upsetting. She was 17. De Niro improvised the finger in the mouth thing and he told Scorsese he was going to do it and Scorsese was like great, let's not tell the girl that you're going to do it.
31:02 >> Yep. >> so that like fear and uncertainty you see on Juliette Lewis, that's her being like why is Robert De Niro a 50-something year old man, 40-something year old man sticking his finger in my mouth? Last one at least. >> >> Juliette Lewis has lived a life, man. She's >> That was the first year the MTV Movie Awards did best kiss and they nominated that kiss from Cape Fear. >> Are you kidding me? >> you.
31:28 >> First of all, what teens out there were like let's go watch Cape Fear? And even if they did >> Everyone watched Cape Fear. >> fair. It's just oh my god, that is a horrendous decision. >> So I think their heart's swerving away from Max Cady creeps around the teenage daughter in this version. >> And you think the hardest swerve is what if he is her dad? >> I think he's her dad. They're not going to do that. And here's all the swerves they're doing.
31:51 >> Yeah. >> She seems like she might be gay. >> Yes. >> So I don't think she's going to be seduced by >> Joe, I got news for you. She she is gay. >> she's gay, but she might could be bi, but she probably is. She She >> She wants to kiss her friend. She likes Megan Rapinoe shoes. >> Fan of Megan Rapinoe is the new friend of Dorothy as far as I'm concerned. >> So we'll make her queer.
32:12 Her his biological daughter >> Yep. >> and the person he's seducing and catfishing is the son actually. >> Oh boy. I mean it does seem like that is what has been set up. >> So like in terms of what secret could Anna be keeping from Tom because there are moments where she has opportunities to tell Tom things and she's not telling him. >> Yes. >> The fact that she Max Cady and got pregnant by him and he's like I never told anyone what happened and I'm why would I start now? And all that sort of stuff like that. Like >> I think there's a watch on this show where you gloss past that as like something about hiding the evidence or some way she messed up the case or like didn't file a thing on time or whatever.
32:48 But, now that you're laying it out, I think you're absolutely right. That there there is clearly a secret between them that is distinct from whatever conspiracy to commit thing she has going on with Tom. >> Yeah. >> And the way that those secrets intersect and what kids may be involved as a result, I mean, my skin is crawling just thinking about it. >> Because I like this idea I mean, I hate this idea, but I like this idea of of of Natalie being seduced not sexually, but sort of like this bleeding heart you know, when when she overhears her parents say like we had to do it.
33:19 >> Yeah. >> You know, and and she asks her mom something about that like, right? You he had to plead, right? So, this idea that she's just sort of like believes Max Kady wasn't guilty >> Yes. >> and then maybe finds out he's her real dad and all of these sort of things like, you know. >> extremely >> Cuz there is an actor playing you know, she's talking to her real dad Paul on the phone, who seems deeply checked out of everything. and there is an actor playing him, but he's not like an actor who is like known for anything, so I don't think that her biological dad Paul is going to play a huge role in this show. So, that's where my that's where my mind went.
33:55 >> Straight into the gutter, it turns out. >> so. Okay, let's talk about Tom Bowden, Captain America himself, Patrick Wilson. I love Patrick Wilson. I'm so glad he's here. >> A joy every time. >> And do you think he was his idea to be like, should they see my arms? Do you think? >> Should I pull my sleeves up a little bit? >> go sleeveless for breakfast? Do you think Do you think Tom Bowden would do that?
34:13 >> As one does. >> Mental health issues in his family. He was very squirrely when the doctor was asking about his history of mental health issues in his family. Flashback to something in his teen years. It seems like his flash when he was Zach in the hospital and there's a flash of something, and it looks like a teenage boy like walking into a room. >> And maybe this is just me being Masters of the Universe pills having just seen it, but it sure looks like a He-Man poster on the wall, which would suggest like time frame wise it would be him and not somebody else.
34:40 >> trying to So that not the one on the door, but like inside. Okay, I was trying to timestamp the one on the door and I couldn't really >> Yeah, that's what it looked like to me, but look, it could be another half-naked man in a loincloth type getup, you know. >> He's master, let's hope. Okay. extramarital affair? >> Perhaps. >> This is a you know, a Cape Fear classic. Or a bait and switch. That's a very ambiguous That's like sort of what we're meant to think. There's a woman on the phone and she's like, I don't want to be weird, but you want to hear about this.
35:08 >> talk about it. We need to meet, etc., etc. >> Follow question, if he is having an extramarital affair, is there any possibility that it is Kali, his daughter's friend in a very American Beauty kind of way? >> I hope not. >> Kali who's like, your dad's hot. >> She's interested. >> Yeah. >> And look, I think a lot of people would be interested. I hope for I hope for Tom's sake >> Patrick Wilson. >> That's not what's happening.
35:31 You know, the man is ripped and handsome. >> Okay. Microdosing mushrooms? >> Yeah, what's going on exactly? >> I think for anxiety he's microdosing mushrooms. >> we think GHB? What do we think? >> I don't know. I don't microdose mushrooms, but what else do you microdose with a dropper like that? >> I I think like GHB is the only thing I can think of. Like something sedative. It's like a take the edge off kind of drug clearly.
35:53 >> So, and he's doing it in a way slightly surreptitiously. So, whatever he's microdosing to take the edge off, A could be a secret that he's keeping or B something that could be laced at any point. We've seen him put that dropper on his tongue twice and Max Kitty could put anything in that bottle and what could happen to Patrick Wilson? >> Just the vulnerabilities we welcome into our lives. It's crazy. >> Okay, so that's my Tom Bowden rundown.
36:20 Zach Bowden. The Sofia thing? >> Yeah. >> No friends? >> It seems like he had the view that maybe stuck with him after the Sophia thing he seems to have abandoned for the sake of Angel X. >> Angel X, who among us? All right. Drugs >> She is what was what was dirty hot? >> Dirty hot. >> dirty hot. >> Yeah. drugs >> Willingly or not Like smoking weed we're told but also this seems deeper than that.
36:47 >> In love / lust with Angel X. >> Yeah. >> Has a secret cell phone. >> The whole burner situation. >> Yeah. Listen, I'm rooting for you Anna Boden but the fact like and first of all I love the whole what's this picture and used his face to unlock the phone great move. >> It's a good move. >> Great move. But also if your son's going through all this stuff I think you need a back door into his phone no matter what.
37:10 >> That feels >> are we giving this kid a locked phone? And also they just like leave like the fact that he can like wander out into the night and his sister has to go bring him back home. Like why isn't this kid under more watchful eye at any given moment? >> think this is another way in which the story has been modernized, right? Like if this is a 90s movie he's under lock and key, right? Like he is not let out of the house or it's at least a a bigger ordeal.
37:32 >> but Natalie is sort of like vulnerable in the 90s version. >> But I think I think the way that they're treating Zach in general like one of the things I really do like about these first two episodes is the source of some of the marital tension between Ann and Tom is like their parenting styles, right? Like Tom is like we need to be present with our son to help him get through everything he's getting through and Ann is like but I need to solve all his problems by snooping through his phone and like being a detective basically. I need to know what I'm dealing with so I can fix whatever is happening with him. And like that difference of opinion is starting to wedge them apart. It's also clearly like part of what drives Zach crazy in the first place and I know a lot of teenagers hate their parents this kid hates his parents.
38:11 >> my parents. >> The scene that he has with Max Katie in the hospital bathroom is terrifying the way it's shot. Like I think they're doing a great job of >> And we don't see all of it. >> Yes, but like the cinematic claustrophobia of like Max Kady's reflections all around him. The idea that this is a man who's very good at manipulating people, witchcraft or not. It has moments alone. >> witchcraft. I have to say at the end of the day.
38:34 >> if he thinks it's witchcraft, but I I doubt very much given this story that it's actual effective witchcraft. >> a whistle, a dog whistle, or a clicker, you know, some treats. >> hypnosis like might be fit the story better than witchcraft, but yeah, I Zack is in a bad way for a bunch of different reasons. We get some hints as to like the fact that he he has a hard he's had a hard time dealing with the fallout of his own actions as far as what he did with Sophia.
38:58 Blames himself, hits himself, like clearly has a lot of shame. Will not leave this poor girl alone. Like wants to and I think this is another thing these first two episodes do really well, set up all of the kind of different forms of stalking that are happening, right? Sometimes it's Natalie walking down the street and a podcaster is hounding her. Sometimes it is Max Kady out in the yard. >> that, podcasters. >> We would never. Sometimes there's a cougar in the backyard. Sometimes it's Zack who I think genuinely means well, but wants to go to this girl's house in the middle of the night to apologize. It's like absolutely not.
39:30 >> and she's like, "No, thank you." >> She is not interested. >> I think in addition I love that connected tissue you drew between the stalking. I think also there's this idea of like are there mistakes you can fix? >> Yes. >> You know, and this is when Natalie's like, "There's some things you just can't fix, right?" last but not least and this this might be in the drugs and or witchcraft >> Mhm. >> thing. The seeing seeing Adam Kady, seeing the ghost of the AI slop of the teenage version of Max Kady's dead son.
40:00 >> I really hope this pays off in a way that we will find satisfying, but I kind of doubt it. I'm I am suspicious of this plot line. Can I ask you a question though on the the catfishing front? >> Please. >> I need your help. I am not a woman, nor am I a murderer pretending to be a woman on the internet. >> Yeah. I need >> >> Life is long. I can't say I understand the series of emojis that exist in some of these flirtatious messages, and I would like for you to help me decipher them.
40:27 >> This is like adolescence all over again. When there was like all this code in adolescence, you're you're going to ask me as if I like >> We're just trying, you know? >> of an advanced age is going to be able to decipher these emojis? >> We're tilting at windmills, and sometimes they exist over text. This is the text This is the text that Zach was sent by Angel X, whoever he or she may be. Not a game, not a trick, just a girl who wants how your voice sounds like, and wants it closer.
40:54 The series of emojis is wilting flower, black heart, flame. I didn't even know there was a wilting flower emoji. What does that mean? >> What does wilting flower emoji mean? Heartbreak, emotional pain, or death of romance. >> Maybe love really is dead. >> Black heart, wilting flower, very like, I'm sad. >> Sure. >> You know, won't you talk to me? I'm so sad. >> I get that. That part makes sense. Look, I mean >> Okay. >> They're just kids in love, or a kid and an adult man in love.
41:26 >> >> I did laugh at >> Or a kid and an adult man trying to seduce him just to get back at his mother who he might have at one point and sent him to jail. Tale as old as time. >> Tale as old as time. The text that Zach sent back at one point of you're not just a girl anymore, you're a storm system. >> Then let me flood you or something. >> exactly. Let me flood you.
41:46 >> that's >> wave, black heart, wave. >> get wave, black heart, wave. >> That's self- like, self-explanatory. >> It was wilted flower that really you know, well, think of a baby carriage at gmail.com if you have some other more advanced >> analysis. >> The emoji breakdown analysis just really broke my brain. Okay. >> Well, on the storm front, we've got so much storm meta- storm metaphoring happening in these episodes. I I have to think that one of the trees that is being complained about in episode 1 will fall, right?
42:18 >> I've got a few Chekhovs on the list, but that's definitely one of them. You know what I mean? Tom Bowden's inability to get chores done around the house seems like they're going to come I mean is it yeah, is it just going to crash into the entire house? Or maybe just into the den that's half outside anyway. >> I don't know if you want to tag yourself anywhere in these episodes, but that one is me unfortunately. The like I mean to do this chore, but it goes undone.
42:42 >> Did you call the people? Sure. Yeah, I'll get right on that. >> going to do that tomorrow when I don't have five podcasts. >> I feel like I'm more of the like in terms of the differing styles between Tom and Anna Bowden. >> Yes. >> Storm's a brewin. She's like, let's move this party onto the sun porch. And Tom's like, it'll be fine. I'm Anna. I'm like, why why wait to find out when we can move the everything you've grilled onto the sun porch.
43:12 >> Better safe than soaked. >> Yeah. Okay. Natalie Bowden. Queer? Question mark. >> Seems to be. >> Do her parents know? >> It seems like her friend doesn't know. >> Seems like her granddad knows. >> Yeah, at least he has an inkling. >> I think her friend does know. >> so? >> It'd be weird if we kissed because I don't think of you that way. >> I think I believe that part is true, but does the friend know that Natalie does think of her friend that way?
43:40 >> I mean, Natalie's not very subtle. I think it's kind of that. >> in the like down bad encyclopedia >> Yeah. >> can you blow smoke into my mouth? Point blank is like pretty far up It's pretty far up the list in terms of examples. >> It's a real flood me sort of moment. All right. Max Katie's biological daughter? Question mark. >> Maybe. >> Megan Rapinoe shoes. I don't have much else for her. >> I actually really like Lilly Collias is the actress who's playing Natalie. I really like what she's bringing to part so far. I think there is a like there is a warmth, there's a curiosity, there's like big older sister energy. and I think the like combination of like son you don't understand and daughter you take for granted can set us up to do a lot with this family structure.
44:21 >> Sure. Anna being like, "So great. We never have to worry about you. You're always perfect." It's like >> Somebody's got to fish the skunks out of the pool, unfortunately, and she is the one who does it. >> I will say in terms of like check off something, one of the inelegant things in these episodes, her taking a full open container to walk down the street. I was like, "That's unhinged behavior. Why is she doing that?" And it's simply so that she can throw it at a a scummy podcaster.
44:48 >> As you should. >> Yeah, maybe she should always walk around with an open container just in case a scummy podcaster comes calling. Other mysteries. Green Hood Mask Lady seen by both Anna and Max. >> What's going on with her? >> She could be anyone. >> I don't think we have any grounds to even guess who she might be yet. Do you Do you feel any inkling as far as what that character might represent or where they might intersect with these people's lives?
45:12 >> I mean, she's a real person since both Anna and Max saw her, right? >> in the hospital bumping into Anna and then I was like on the street or something where she ran into Max or was kind of like lurking around him. >> that hair could be a wig. >> Yes. >> And then the mask mask covers the face, hood covering a lot of things. >> The green hooded jacket I think is quite tasteful. >> It Yeah.
45:34 >> I like it. I like I like the look. >> His dead wife. >> >> You think his So who who was found in the swamp? >> I don't know. >> Well well So if we do get acknowledgement >> >> that the wife's body was like >> They're on stolen land. >> May Maybe so. >> >> The wife's body was left in like a bog or a swamp and was like chewed up by gators basically. Perhaps beyond recognition.
46:00 But then how would they even know that it was supposed to be Max Katis's wife in the first place? >> I don't know. Dental records, something like that. >> So they swapped out the teeth? >> Who's they? >> I don't know. This must go all the way to the top. >> Yeah. >> But I don't know what the top is like. >> Here's an idea. What if Max Katis's wife pregnant and maybe Adam like actually exists somewhere because like maybe she's like I don't want to raise my kid with this dude.
46:22 >> You think she faked her own death? >> And frames him or something. >> Wow. >> Yeah. >> So we potentially have a man who into prison for killing his wife who he did not kill. >> Yeah. >> And a mistress who's claiming credit for that kill even though she also did not kill her. That woman escapes, gave birth to an actual child who may or may not be on TikTok posting AI AI slot videos of himself. They're then now infiltrating the psyche of a whole 'nother family. The sister of which may actually be Max Katis's biological daughter.
46:52 >> We have 10 episodes to fill. >> Oh my god. >> Don't take anything for granted inside of a 10 episode limited series. >> I really don't. This is ultimately going to be the struggle of the show, I think, is >> Who else could she be? >> I don't know. >> There's no other like woman around, you know what I mean? Like there's no one else. The mistress, I thought about it. >> Couldn't she be the like Tom's potential mistress?
47:18 >> Maybe, but why why is she masking her face like that? >> know. >> She has to mask her face because the two people who have bumped into her would recognize her. >> Yes. >> That's why she has to be masked. >> Well, it makes sense that the person that Tom >> is like a real throw off for like someone with like, you know, dark hair which is what his wife looks like. >> I really have no clue. I am terrified now that all of these threads are linking together and potentially this way. This is a dizzying amount of potential mystery.
47:44 >> It's so much and I really think maybe they should have done six episodes, but we'll see what happens. >> Yeah. >> One other thing and, you know, we can play talk about plenty of other things, but one other sort of logistical thing I want to talk about. If you go to does the dog die.com Cape Fear is is a real does the dog die.com. >> Yeah. >> this family doesn't have a dog. >> No. >> It has a cat. And Max Keaton is a dog lover.
48:09 >> a dog? >> He's got a dog. >> He's just out here like having a good time, adopting dogs. >> Oh yeah, I love >> Making bilingual dick jokes. >> I loved that scene where he's just like screwing this guy over and taking his dog as his own. I thought that was great. And then I was like, "Oh, he's not going to kill a dog." But then I rewatched episode one, I was like, "-oh, there's a cat."
48:24 >> There's a cat. >> Mr. Peanut Butter, I believe is his name. >> Mr. Peanut Butter Joe is cooked. There's no way that cat survives this. >> wrote on Hannibal, perhaps literally. >> Yeah. >> Who's to say? so I'm I'm on Peanut Butter watch, honestly. Does the cat die.com? I'm worried about it. All right, anything else that we haven't talked about that that we need to get into? >> Honestly, there's there's still somehow a lot of stuff in this show.
48:49 Yeah, I We don't have certainty on what happened exactly with Byron and his mom. >> Oh, but I feel for sure >> Yeah. >> that Max Keaton got him like drugged or you know, on like which drugs or something like that. Like I think it's possible that his mom did kill him and then died. But like in terms of he went out and got drunk and and took a lot of drugs. >> You think Max Keaton nudged the situation along?
49:14 >> Yeah, he's a nudger. >> And and that's I think one area where all of this gray area that Max Keaton is living in like really potentially works cuz we get this information like Byron is like kind of skittish around crowds. And so the idea that he wouldn't want to go to this big gala or that it might spark some like real angst for him or strain with his relationship with his mom, plausible. But yeah, the fact that he is kind of like nudging things along and I think this exists too in just his language and the way this character is written right now where it is it is so much oh, I I didn't mean that literally about seeing my dead wife and child, but also I did mean that other part literally about the fingers and toes? I I it's like he he's having it both ways.
49:54 >> mean that about his wife and his child. >> Apparently. Everything is a simple, everything is literal. >> Everything's a storm. >> It really is. >> Everything's a wilted flower emoji. Anything else? you know, how many flashbacks do you have tolerance for? Because listen, we get this like black and white opener >> Yep. >> which is a first prison flashback and inside the prison flashback there's a colored flashback to Max Cady's dead wife who's maybe not dead and the ultrasound.
50:22 >> Can I ask you a question about the prison flashback? >> Oh, please. >> Is there any thought in your mind that Anna and Tom would be so ghoulish as to be like behind a hit on Max Cady in prison? >> I don't think so. >> Seems beyond what they're capable of. >> No, if Anna's like, "Let's tie these loose ends. I don't want anyone to ever know that I had sex with him or that he's the biological father of my child."
50:40 You know. That's possible. >> What a web we weave. >> But if she you know, if she had sex with Max Cady like when she was representing him and she was not sober at the time >> Yeah. >> which drugs or otherwise like that's that's you know, are we going to get a flashback to 17 years ago Max and Anna and their affair? >> Yes. >> Okay. We're doing like a CGI flashback. >> I don't No, no, sorry. I'm walking that back. I don't think we're getting the actual flashback. I think we'll just get expository scenes where they talk about it.
51:10 >> Okay. Are we going to get Tom childhood flashbacks? >> get more of that. Yes. Whatever Whatever is in that room. >> Anna and her dad flashbacks? >> I don't know if we'll get that one literally. >> Okay. >> But clearly he's going to be back around at some point. >> I feel like we're just getting as many flashbacks as we can to fill the 10 episodes of this show. >> you think we will get more flashbacks or in Cape Fear tradition one of Anna or Tom walking out onto their porch and looking out into the darkness holding a weapon of some kind?
51:41 >> They have to do that. >> they've already done it like five times. >> It is it is Cape Fear required. >> But how many times is the question? >> Shoot it into the dark. Just shoot the gun into the empty the clip into the darkness. >> It's the only way to be safe. >> All right, anything else you want to talk about? >> Joe, I have a couple quick hitting things before we get out of here. Tom has this line at the very beginning of episode 1. She split herself into two different people. It's a 14-hour procedure, but if you survive it, you get a lot done.
52:06 Is that a Severance joke? >> I hope so. >> It I I don't Apple's like it feels too coincidental. >> I hope so. >> Feels like it has to be. he also says that skunks are dumb. >> Is that true? >> Tough for the skunk community. >> Is that true? >> I I did a lot of research on this. >> >> It does not seem to be true. >> Pigeon hater Rob Mahoney, skunk lover? >> Skunks seem like a better like better members of the community to be honest.
52:30 >> skunk over a possum, I'll tell you that much right now. >> I don't have a problem with that possum. I think don't fire You know what? Don't fire a nail gun at the possums. They didn't do anything to you. >> Don't fire the nail gun in general, Kelly. That's a Chekhov's nail gun. That nail gun is coming. >> That's going to be wielded? >> Yeah, that nail gun is coming back. >> I hope I hope against the right person.
52:46 I don't know who that is. >> nail gun in the house? Yeah. >> It's It's It's pretty gnarly already. I did find a lot of skunk materials out there insisting that they are quite intelligent and quite smart. That said, most of the sources seem like pet skunk propaganda. so I don't know if that's true or not. but a quick shout-out before we get out of here. Paul Schneider of Parks and Rec fame >> -huh. >> notorious Mark Brandanowitz, I want to say, written off the show. The problem with all of season 1 appears very briefly as a cop. I hope we see him again.
53:17 >> Really? >> Yeah, that's him in the hospital, one of the guys who's interrogating Max Kady. >> I love Paul Schneider. I completely missed it. >> I think you're beard blind right now. >> I guess so. >> hair and just like can't even see these guys anymore. >> entirely. Well, he'll come back and he'll probably die, would be my guess. >> If you are a law enforcement official or anyone just around around this family, I I fear your life is in danger.
53:39 >> Watch out. Follow-up question, last question. Do you think Savannah Coffee Roasters got some money for the product placement inside of this episode? >> have paid some money for the product placement in this episode. I've just had my toe cut off, but you >> All I want is a fresh hot cup black Savannah Coffee Roasters. >> It was way too specific. Do you Do you Here's the question. Do you want that kind of publicity if you're Savannah Coffee Roasters?
54:08 >> want Zach as my spokesman. No. >> Toeless Zach? >> Also, I think I think Tom's wearing like a local ice cream shop shirt at one point. So, I think they're trying to be like, "We're really in Savannah." But I just thought that was a really weird line. >> I did look up the reviews for Savannah Coffee Roasters. I got to say the service didn't seem great over there. But the It was consistently like, you know what? The coffee's pretty good, but these people did not pay attention to me. What is wrong with coffee shops today?
54:32 >> Tom's brewing at home. They're not going I thought he was When he said, "I would like a a black hot cup of Savannah coffee," I was like, "Are they DoorDashing this? What do they do?" You know? >> I thought one of them was going to pop out and go get it. >> No, the service is bad. You got to brew it at home. Savannah Coffee Roasters. All right. Savannah Coffee Roasters, all right. Savannah Coffee Roasters, you want to send us some beans.
54:49 >> I'll take a sample. Sure, why not? >> You want to hit them with that email one more time? >> Yeah, that email is think of a baby carrot at gmail.com. Or if you prefer prestigetv@spotify.com. >> Yeah. The inbox is always open. >> Yes. >> We are wrapping up Widow's Bay. There's a couple more episodes of Widow's Bay left. and we're you know, sort of figuring it out as we go. >> We're looking around. We're eyeing the landscape.
55:13 >> But we really would like to hear from you whether or not you're all in on Cape Fear and you would like us to cover Cape Fear in in the way that we cover shows. >> Just straight up, are you watching it? Like we have no idea what the imprint of this show will be. Presumed Innocent feels like a bellwether, but you know, these things can be lightning in a bottle or Savannah storms in a whatever.
55:30 >> I will say, if people ask me, "Should I watch Cape Fear?" Here's what I will say. I'd watch Javier Bardem do almost anything. >> He's so good in this. >> He's incredibly good in this. We haven't talked so stupid. We haven't talked about that yet. Like he's guess what? He's fantastic. >> He's really good. >> I also love Amy Adams in like a very southern murder limited series. I'm a big fan of that. Patrick Wilson I'm always a huge fan of. I think he has like he's got such like Captain America dripped in handsome dipped in handsome good looks that like I think he gets underestimated but I just think he's incredibly good and I'm really excited I love his like you know, dad making inappropriate jokes when he's like, " I could pop it on ice. Pop that toe back on for you." You know what I mean? Like I just love what he's doing with Tom so far.
56:12 >> I love Tom's balance of like we're told he's like the head of his class in law school like top of his class but also he has that kind of like dad's low EQ like I'm going to blurt out all of my son's psychological problems in the middle of this hospital and just tell everyone all about it. Like poor situational awareness. >> dad is like, "Did you see Adolescence?" >> >> >> So look, we are I would say we are of the people of the Ringer maybe co-counselors in the defense of Amy Adams. We have been on the forefront.
56:42 >> It's true. >> I'm not going to pretend that everything she's in that she's like a can't miss or a like never misses sort of actor but her highs are exceptional. They're so good. Remains to be seen if this is going to be that. Like I I do I do love the premise of her in this story. I will say both of their southern accents are like real spotty in these first two episodes. Sometimes they're using them, sometimes they're not. To be honest, I don't even care. I'm having a fun time.
57:05 >> Here's what I kind of love. Javier Bardem is doing a like I was raised in Spain until I was 13 and then I learned English traumatically in North Carolina. That's his accent. He's got like there's something sort of >> dialed in. >> something countrified about the way that he's speaking English. We should say dodgy accents are proud tradition in Cape Fear because what the is De Niro doing? >> It's very true. >> In his Oscar nominated role.
57:30 >> I'm going to call it homage. >> Okay. >> >> A pastiche of something. yeah, so I would say if you were like, "Should I watch this show?" I would say, "Yeah." >> Yeah. >> Watch this show. Are we Are we all going to regret that around episode seven? Possibly. >> String of the story is going to be a challenge. I look forward to seeing how they handle it. I would say this is one though where if you are very skittish about being followed, stalking, like I think this would be a really hard watch.
57:55 If you There are a lot of people just like creeping up on each other for absolutely no reason in this show. >> Sure. >> Other than that, I think it's well enough made and I am intrigued. >> >> Okay. What's a normal amount to be worried about stalking versus an abnormal amount to be worried about stalking? >> where to draw those lines. Is that for me to say? >> >> thanks everyone who worked on this show. Jacob Corneta is here as always.
58:19 >> Holding it down. >> Cameron Dinwiddie is you know, doing the edit on this podcast. Shout out to our team who are in Sweden as we speak. >> Living it up. >> And we'll be back with Widow's Bay and perhaps more of the show. Oh, and last last but not least, Ron Perlman's in this show. We don't know who he's playing yet. Patrick Fischler, who's always really fun, is in this show. We don't know who he's playing yet. I hope like an even scummier podcaster would be a fun role for Patrick >> A whole podcaster ecosystem.
58:48 >> Are we we Are we doing Okay, I keep We keep saying goodbye and coming back, but are we doing a try a re-trial of Max Kady because he's he's real provisionally released. >> Yes. >> And they haven't They're going to There's some sort of trial that he has to do. >> Oh, is there? >> That's that's sort of what I got from CCH Pounder's character Noah when when when Anna's like, "But we're not even taking his case." And she's like >> was saying like the case is done. He's already out.
59:17 >> like I thought she was saying he's provisionally released. I believe she literally said provisionally released. So, I think there is like something that has to come. Is it a court case? Is it a something else, you know, just paperwork has to be filed? I don't know what that case, you know, is, but >> Here's one other loose end we didn't talk about, too. >> Is >> >> Wow, a full time Honestly, they would kind of fit of a world. I don't know how like >> Rachel Brosnahan defending Javier Bardem >> if season two is in Chicago. I don't know how we get to Savannah or vice versa. but one thing I'm still wondering about is like we are told that Max Cadey is basically urged by Anna to take this plea deal, right? For what he believes is like a 20-year sentence.
59:59 >> life. >> To save his life. A 20-year sentence. >> Yeah. >> Then something happens, and it sounds like the judge, based on his telling, unilaterally decides that this is a life sentence. I didn't even like I don't know if that's an exaggeration or maybe I'm misconstruing what he's saying. >> a detail there. >> What we know for a fact is he was given a life sentence. You don't plea for a life sentence in the vast majority of cases, I guess, unless the death penalty is on the line. So, I What even happened with the plea deal, I don't know.
60:24 >> Doesn't seem great legally. >> No. >> Okay. I think we did it. >> I think so, too. >> I think we made a podcast. >> Thank you, Joe. >> thank you, Rob. We'll see you soon. Bye. >>