Why Creators Will Own The Next Era of Live Sports · Creator Sports Network Co-Founder Barrick Prince

0:00 If you go back to, you know, cable television and the VCR and the satellite pay per view in the analog era, in 2000 it was just called digital. And now we got digital ott, avod, svod, P vod, TVOD fast. And now the live social creator window, which we've created.

0:24 All right, we are back for another episode of under the Number. Today I'm joined by Barak Prince, the co founder of Creator Sports Network. Thanks for joining me.

0:34 Thanks for having me.

0:35 All right, I know you've had quite the interesting media career and there's a lot that's led up to this point. Let's start off with an overview of Creator Sports Network itself.

0:45 Yeah. So Creator Sports Network is a network of live digital content creators that are broadcasting live sports. The actual live pictures that we're getting from the venue, we look at it as building something really similar to the way that broadcast networks in the United States were built. They weren't built with a single station. They were built with lots of local affiliate stations that were geographically located in places like New York and Los Angeles and Dallas and even Des Moines, Iowa and Oklahoma City.

1:19 Right. But it's actually the amalgamation of all of those networks together, the aggregate that they add up to actually get you a network television number. And so we just kind of started to think like, wait a second, aren't creators no different than affiliate television stations yet we're not governed by the FCC's geographical locations and therefore it becomes eminently scalable. And now, you know, television channels are built around communities and not location based anymore.

1:45 When we talked earlier this week, you gave me a great overview of how syndication really works. Can you give that same, that same overview? Because it's a really good analogy and kind of way to level set and understand more about what you're building today.

2:02 Yeah. So when the broadcast networks in the United States ultimately started building in the, in the 50s, they went to local locations around the United States and they hired plumbers and electricians and architects to actually build physical buildings that ultimately became television stations that they used to locally distribute traditional television. And that ultimately ended up about 200 and some change local affiliates stations.

2:34 And so NBC had a 200 local affiliates and then ABC did, and then NBC and then ultimately Fox and then CW have all really been built in the United States around this syndicated model. But we think that the. And like when you get a number, right, when you get, you know how many people watch the NBA playoffs on NBC last night and you hear the number 5, 6 million, that's not coming from a single point of distribution, that's actually the aggregate of all 200 of those local stations added up.

3:05 And so what we're doing is really analogous to that, which is that we can use live digital content creators as affiliate stations all over the world in all different types of communities, but we don't need to build physical buildings anymore. So.

3:21 And for the streaming category, I feel like just in 2026, the amount that it's blown up has been pretty wild. And for somebody who I was never a gamer, I never watched game gamers doing streams, but I know that that's obviously a massive category on its own. What were some of the things that someone like me was not paying attention to over the past five, six years? Looking at Covid as what I assume was probably a major accelerant, but before that as well, when it comes to streaming and streaming another set of content with the kind of commentary angle, it's

3:53 really just an evolution of the way that media is starting to move around the world, right? Ultimately started with, you know, the Facebooks of the world, right, that were post based and relationship based. And then it started to move into more short form and Instagram and even vine, the predecessor to to TikTok and what those created were a two way conversation between the poster, between the audience, right?

4:25 And you really started to see what was happening in two way conversation. Yet it was a long form conversation that happened over months and months and months of posts, right? And then what you really saw with the live streamers is that happening in a live environment and, and Covid really was an accelerant, right? Like overnight, literally all of us needed to figure out like one, how do we entertain ourselves? Two, how do we get that connection to the other human beings out there that has suddenly been taken away from us and the ability to have a two way conversation and a live stream back and forth with the creator.

5:03 But there's just as much conversation happening with the person not on the screen. Because really what's happened is that back in the day you had to play with who was on your street, whether you liked them or not. You didn't have any other choice. But now social media has really allowed the birds of the feather flock together. You can find your flock of people to hang out with and ultimately a lot of that happens around the community.

5:33 They all started with the love for a certain game or the love for a certain personality. And it's developed into a real genuine friendship that is now happening in this live interactive environment that everybody has the ability to interact with.

5:48 Where you talk through a bunch of the iterations of different technologies and products that came out that led up to this, with examples like vine and of course, TikTok now and Facebook, the way things used to be. Maybe this is not as important as I think it is, but what about Periscope? Was that almost like kind of a more important factor than people might realize? Because didn't X or Twitter buy them, like, in, I don't know, 2017 or something?

6:13 I mean, really kind of like a first mover from, like a mobile advantage was Periscope. Right. And I think that, like, you look back at history and you see, like, life is timing. Multiple YouTubes launched in the 90s, multiple versions of YouTube launched in the 90s. It just wasn't the right time. We didn't have the bandwidth. It was no different from a business standpoint. It was just the right time at the right place, with the right brand name, and they were able to create something really engaging.

6:40 And I think that Periscope is one of those. I think that what we've seen is that versions of Periscope have happened everywhere. Right? Really when. When Twitch really started to come, like the predecessor to Twitch being Justin tv, that ultimately then became Twitch, you know, that was really kind of more focused initially on gaming. Now it's really kind of evolved, but it was really a desktop product. Right. There wasn't a whole lot of stuff happening out in the real world.

7:08 And what you've really seen, the biggest growth in Twitch is IRL Stream is creators that are going out and experiencing the real world. And, like, Periscope was really the only place that you could do that in 2017. Right. And so, like, had Periscope come around maybe, I don't know, five or six years later, it would be interesting to see what happens to them as a brand. Now, obviously, you know, their. Their story still continues through X, but.

7:35 But not really. Right? You're not really seeing a lot of people utilize X in that way. That was really the. The main value proposition of Periscope. You're seeing a lot more of that happening on some of the other platforms where certainly TikTok's doing a lot of IRL streams. You're definitely seeing that a lot on Twitch and YouTube now.

7:52 Yeah. I mean, and on that note, Instagram Live has been around for years. I barely see anyone ever use it. So, yeah, it's amazing about the timing,

8:00 but on something magic about when that circle lights up, though, right?

8:05 Yeah, no doubt. And on timing, what are just to go a level Deeper, I guess. What are some of the maybe converging trends or realities from a technical perspective and bandwidth capabilities and actual hardware and mixed with cultural shifts and realities of regulatory changes in the media landscape. What are all the puzzle pieces that have fit together today that make you feel a level of conviction on timing that now is the time for something like a creator sports network?

8:39 Yeah, I think that's a really good question because I think timing is the key to it. I think that if this was 2020, we' having this conversation. I think from a real macro level, what has happened is that the traditional media companies really had one plan which was, hey, we're going to put up a direct to consumer pay wallet and everybody's just going to come. That was the plan. And ultimately, and they, and they were expecting that to replace traditional television revenues.

9:12 And it definitely hasn't happened, it definitely hasn't happened as fast as they were expecting to. I believe that there was a number of like missteps and I think it's really from a product standpoint, to be quite honest, is where they, where is where they missed. But ultimately because of the cracks in the dam, I will call it that three or four years ago were just trickles, are now waterfalls coming out of that dam and they're just too big to ignore.

9:40 And so, you know, we, as the entertainment business, as entrepreneurs, for longer than my lifetime, we've been utilizing technology to create new ways to monetize video, right? And if you go back to, you know, cable television and the VCR and the satellite and pay per view in the analog era and just in the, the most recent era, I mean in 2000 it was just called digital and now we got digital ott, avod, svod, pvod, TVOD fast.

10:12 And now the, the live social creator window which, which we've created. So we've really just kind of piggybacked on 50 years of history of, of entrepreneurs creating new ways to monetize video, right. By just defining it a little bit differently. And I think it's the, the convergence of all those things. It's the 50 years of history, it's the cracks in the dam, it's the fact that everybody's got one of these in their pockets that is like, you know, the, one of the real keys to what we do is we're reverse engineering the distribution, right?

10:44 Like I don't have to buy a phone for you. You have one, right? I don't have to get you to download YouTube. I'm pretty sure it comes on your phone. Automatically when you get it right. Like the chances I don't have to get you to download TikTok, you already have it. Right. And so we're essentially using infrastructure that's already built and already in people's pockets and they're already interacting with it and we're just turning it on, quite honestly.

11:13 One step back, you mentioned the acceleration that occurred with COVID You gave a lot of great historical context there across the platforms, and one of which being that Justin TV that evolved into Twitch. You found yourself at Twitch right before COVID or you joined right before COVID Take me back to what it was like being at that company when something like that happens globally.

11:38 It was. I was very, I had been consulting at Twitch, but I was a relatively new full time employee just as Covid was happening. I don't think that we recognized it right away, but very, very quite quickly. I remember being in meetings in the first couple of weeks after Covid and maybe even a couple of days after Covid saying that like we have to do something. And that ultimately ended up coming called StreamAid, which we were live for 12 hours straight.

12:06 We were the very first live kind of event that was happening. I mean we had Garth Brooks and freaking Barry G. From the Bee Gees and Nadia Comanich and I mean like we had all these kind of crazy gaming tournaments where we had NFL players and MLB players playing Fortnite against each other. I mean we had this just crazy 12 hour live marathon that we were definitely the first. And I'm not sure that any other company in the world would have been positioned enough at that time to be able to pull off something like that.

12:39 And you know, right place at the right time for sure. But it became incredibly dynamic very, very quickly because you know, Twitch saw exponential growth in that period of time and it made a lot of sense, right? Like everybody was sitting at home and they needed that connection. And there wasn't really a place that you could have a two way conversation like you could post and then you'd sit there and wait and hope somebody liked it or, or maybe commented on it later like, no, this was something that was happening in real time.

13:06 And it kind of really became the place to be in those early weeks

13:10 of COVID You talk about the community element and you talk about the ability to kind of find your tribe where you have. That was a good example where you said back in the day, the people you played with were the people who lived on your street. And then all of a sudden the world gets bigger. But then Also, the Internet and algorithms and social media networks allow it to actually get smaller. If you choose that path, you can make it really small and only hang out with people who are just as quirky and obsessed with whatever category as you are.

13:39 Why else? I guess in addition to those two reasons, do people like watching streams? Like, if I was trying, I'm sure you have to do this all the time. I were trying to explain to somebody a generation or two or three generations above me and say, look, kids these days, they're watching videos of people watching videos, talking about that video. It seems a little bit insane. I could tell you a few reasons why I think it's good, but I want to hear it from you.

14:08 Why do people like watching streamers?

14:10 They're the new superstars, man. It used to be Tom Cruise and Julia Roberts, but content creators are the new superstars, right? And I think that why is. It's quite aspirational to be one of them. They're actually famous now, right? But you actually have a relationship with this person, right? Like, they'll like your. Your post and comment on something back to you. Like, I remember one of our very first events that we were doing, you know, one of the executives, like, whoa, that chat's moving so quickly.

14:42 Like, what's going on? I was just like, well, you know, like, one of those people is going to become a star today because the creator is going to pick out their name and they're going to start talking about them, right? And like, oh, my God, the 50,000 people who are watching here today know who I am, right? And I think that creators are a little bit more, I guess, approachable maybe, than a superstar athlete, right? Like, I knew that I wouldn't have the physical abilities to be a superstar athlete, but, like, there's nothing stopping me from being a creator, right?

15:12 And I think that the generation sees that as there's. There's really no guards at the gate, Right. It used to be that, you know, television executives like me, you'd have to go through my office to get anointed. Cool. Because that's how you got on television. Not only my office, but my assistant and my boss and their boss, right? You had to, like, go through this gauntlet to, like, prove that you were good enough to be anointed television famous or film famous.

15:37 But, like, nobody told Jimmy Donaldson, yeah, he just went out and created the biggest business in the world. Not because anybody told him to, because of his drive. And you want to know who responded? Well, the audience. The audience voted with their eyeballs. Voted with their. With their wallets. And ultimately, like, there's a lot of kids sitting at home who can dream of being the next Mr. Beast, right. They might not have the ability to dream of next being the next LeBron James, but Mr.

16:07 Beast is maybe attainable. No, I'm not saying that he is. I mean, he's obviously an outlier, but, like, you know, there was a time where Jimmy Donaldson was just a normal guy. LeBron James was never a normal guy. Right. About four or five years old, they knew that he was going to be the man.

16:24 Yeah. I mean, there is something amazing about the friction falling away, the gatekeepers being rendered useless. Like, they're not. They're not able to stand in the way, like you said. And also, as you watch a Mr. Beast video and you can't deny that it has 400 million views, it's like the statistics are there. The numbers don't lie. It's like the wisdom of the crowds playing out. He earned the attention of the world through this. You can't argue with that.

16:54 And when you say he earned it, I mean, like, there's probably a lot of people that are like, oh, wow, what an overnight success. But they didn't see the five or six years that he was grinding, testing out thumbnails, figuring it out. Like, I mean, you look at his chart like it's like nothing. And then all of a sudden it starts to grow a little bit. And then, of course, he gets that big, huge jump, which for most people is when they found him.

17:13 But, like, it was like, you're six or seven, nobody knew who he was.

17:18 No, it's. I've listened to some interesting interviews with him, too. It's. He is a crazy grinder. Like, he is not just. He did not wing it and get.

17:28 And it is not luck. Like, he did not look into anything. He worked his tail off to get there. And. And usually what's so great about those success stories is that, like, most people just see the success, right? Like, they didn't. They didn't see all the shitty videos that got five viewers back in the day. Like. Right.

17:46 Yeah, he didn't let the. He didn't interrupt the compounding either. I mean, he.

17:50 Those.

17:50 Some of those videos from 10 years ago, he was like. He did one video where he literally watched paint dry. I think he did another where he counted to a hundred thousand or something just like, wild. One of the points that you made about the chat going crazy, as someone. Like I said a couple minutes ago, I have not watched many Streamers. I could not name all that many streamers on an individual level. Part of that is I'm 28, I'm not 18.

18:13 If I were 18, I'm sure I'd know a million of them. But one very kind of, of I guess topical live stream thing that I started to really spend a lot of time consuming was TVPN in the last 12, more than 12 months from. I was on that train pretty early. And it's so interesting because that was the first time where to your point about the chat being able to engage with a person that they might engage back.

18:41 They went live on X and YouTube three hours a day, five days a week and you start to understand their personalities and they're like, it's like watching a news show, but it's really not

18:50 because watching your friend do a new show, right?

18:53 And so you start to get that interact interactivity, I guess. And there was one part where like my whole thing is sports media and entertainment and sports business is this whole thing. And they went on some tangent as I tuned in for a couple minutes one day, kind of have it on in the background. They're talking about how they don't know anything about sports and they were trying to report on some sports business deal and they, neither of them could like correct each other.

19:15 And I just off hand, like just off the top of my head put in the chat, I was like, let me know if you guys ever need any help becoming ball knowers. Like let me know. And I literally, as I'm watching I see one of the guys look up, look at the chart on his screen. He starts kind of giggling to himself and he interrupts his co host and he goes, yes, we actually need serious help becoming ball knowers.

19:41 And you watch that and you're like, that's so funny. Like I didn't even, you know, I didn't put much thought into it. It just, it's happening now, happening totally live. And I then this is just a funny like rebundling of content. I then took a screenshot of that and recorded that moment and I put it out on LinkedIn and I was like, I chimed in mid show to see if the TVPN guys would like some help and upping their ball knowledge.

20:06 Jordi responded in real time. This is part of what makes the show so much fun. The live component plus audience chat format is one of the many reasons that these guys are winning. That was my post. The president of TVPN reposted it and with one line I've heard him Say it now a bunch of times. It's like his key thesis going forward is he said the future of TV is content that you can engage with. And I think it's undeniably true.

20:37 I've got no notes.

20:38 Well, I just think once you see that and you see it play out, and I know I'm preaching to the choir, it kind of makes you feel like it's not going to be long before people think there's no looking back. Like, how did we ever do this? We were just sitting here as this static consumer, and then on the screen, everything was happening and we had no action whatsoever. I don't know. I think that's not far away.

21:00 I think it's here now. I think for the younger generation, it's table stakes to be able to have that interaction. I make the analogy to kind of the. Some people of my generation, and even older that, you know, would you trade me your iPhone for a rotary telephone from 1975? And if the answer is yes, then you have that. I would agree that. I believe that you believe that this audience is going to come to traditional television, and they're not going to make that trade because, like, your phone does everything in your life.

21:35 But, like, you know, for this generation, like, if I can't touch it, if I can't interact with it, or I can't forward it or meme it or comment on it or do something with my fingers and interactive and socially, then I'm not going to do it. And that's what traditional television is. And so that's why, you know, I think that there's this overtone of people saying that, you know, the younger generation won't watch live sports. That's not true.

22:00 They'll watch live sports on their own terms in a way that they want to do.

22:05 Yeah.

22:06 What they won't do is sit down on the couch with mom and dad and flip through, you know, the old school box. Right. That's just not the way that they want to interact anymore. And so unless we're just gonna allow the generation to not watch live sports anymore, like, why wouldn't we repackage it in a way that allows them to interact socially the way that they want to? Now, I understand that the networks, like, that's not their business, but ultimately, like, all of them are figuring out that the traditional network business is definitely not a growing one anymore.

22:38 What do you see them doing? Like, what if you fast forward five years, are they the ones that are ultimately trying to do the, you know, David Ellison, let's buy up some of this new stuff and try to repackage it. And these streaming businesses are then being tucked into specific networks. Is it that they kind of try to bridge the gap in the meantime by bringing creator types under their roof? Like, what is that path to survival and an attempt to stay relevant going to look like for the big dogs?

23:10 Well, definitely continued consolidation, there's just not enough to go around. And you have to get economies of scale by not duplicating things like accounting and business affairs. And so you're going to see a lot of more consolidation. You know, the conventional wisdom, I believe that like globally you need about 200 million subscribers to like really make a direct to consumer OTT go.

23:40 There's only a couple of guys in that, maybe two in that category right now. And so, you know, other others of them are going to have to buy their way to get there and get that consolidation. I think that, you know, I wouldn't be doing what I was doing if I didn't think the creators were part of that answer. And I think that, you know, the, the problem that we're trying to solve is creators at scale.

24:04 You know, I think, you know, continually, like, you know, the bigger creators, the ishowspeeds and the jinxes and the XQCS of the world, they're going to continue to deliver large audiences and continue to get brand deals. But like, that's actually a really, really small size of the market. Right. The actual is, you know, there's millions and millions of small channels that are broadcasting to hundreds of people. And if you're able to roll all of them up, you know, there are a lot of different ways to get to a million viewers or 100 million viewers.

24:37 You can do it with a couple of channels, you can do it with thousands of channels.

24:40 Yeah.

24:40 And ultimately our bet is that the greater universe of media is going to need a solution that has scale. Because I think that the, just like in Hollywood, the, the bigger stars are going to be continued to become more and more expensive.

24:56 Yeah, right, for sure. I think that's still like a power law with the absolute super super superstars,

25:01 as they should, you don't get to that, to that point without doing a lot of hard work. And, and you don't make hay when the sun shines. Right. So you gotta, you gotta do everything you can do to, to maximize that window for them.

25:14 So yeah, so much of what we were talking about, it just reminded me of another tweet I saw two or three months ago. It was by Eric Torrenberg. Who's an Andreessen Horowitz guy, but he said nobody is famous anymore. Everyone is just an influencer with millions of followers that nobody else has ever heard of. I thought that was actually a pretty good take with the siloed algorithm driven nature of the Internet where you can go down infinite rabbit holes, where within that rabbit hole, every rabbit hole has its celebrity, has its influential figure.

25:45 But it's all.

25:46 I heard Rich Paul say something very similar to that as well recently.

25:49 Yeah, same idea. Tell me now about how it really mechanically works with the rights to the games. How you go out and tell a creator, hey, we'd love for you to get involved with creator Sports Network. We've seen you do XYZ type of stream. We think you'd be a great fit for this. What is your role in that? Maybe creator acquisition side of the house. And then also, structurally, how are you able to have them watch a game and get past what feels like Lawsuit City on first glance?

26:21 Yeah, no, definitely. I think that and that's really the key to the business is being able to legally be able to get these rights. That's where about my 20 year television career came in, where I was making content deals all day long and really kind of understanding how to break up different types of broadcast rights, different types of rights windows. And so, you know, we've been able to go to these teams and leagues and legally license these rights under a new broadcast rights window called the Live Social creator window.

26:53 Right. So, so what we do is we only license the rights to broadcast with creators on social media. So we can't put it on our website, we can't put it on a fast channel. I can't see you do AVOD or SVOD or whatever else they're doing. And I can only use this feed with creators. And it's a new revenue stream, it's a new line of revenue, right? It's not just more revenue, it's like literally a whole new line of revenue that they're not generating from.

27:19 And a lot of the value proposition is one is that we're going to bring you a whole bunch of young people. The other part is that we're going to create this new revenue stream for you that by and large a lot of these viewers who would be watching this game might be watching it not on NBC or abc. They might be watching the game, they might just not be watching on a place that you, the network or you, the rights holder can monetize.

27:40 And so we're able to take some of that some of those viewers who would normally be off the books and turn them into monetizable eyeballs. And so we're solving a couple of problems right there. And so just the fact that young people that they don't know really how to find, ultimately we've built the infrastructure to be able to, able to help scale this. And so right now we're the only company in the world that's licensing live social creator rights.

28:05 We expect there's going to be some in the future. But our version is that contracts are written in the English language. The English language is made up of letters, and you can put those letters in any order you want to make the contract say whatever you want it to say. And if you, the lawyer wanted to say that this is a legal definition than you have the ability to. And right now these companies are looking for more revenue and they're looking for young viewers and we're able to, to solve both those problems in, in one package.

28:36 So that's kind of how we're getting it done. But like, we actually legally defined a definition that is now going into, into contracts. And then in terms of like, recruiting creators, a lot of it started with, you know, my personal relationships while at Twitch and working with a lot of the, the live stream creators. I'd say that a majority of the creators that are on the platform are referrals from other creators. Ultimately, you know, one of the hardest things about being a creator is what am I going to create today?

29:06 And sometimes for these creators, just hanging out and watching the game is the best, easiest way to create. And so it's a scenario where we, we give them the easy button to fully license content that they wouldn't been able to get on their own. And it's actually live stream sport that they can show on their channels. And then we give them additional abilities to, to earn money when, when there are branded activations. And so the word is getting out that like, whoa, this is like something that can help the creator themselves grow the channel.

29:35 We've had a lot of success stories of creators that started out not monetizing on Twitch and not monetizing on YouTube because they weren't affiliates or partners. And we've been able to take them from virtually nothing into monetizing their channels just by the uplift that live sports gets from being such a unique and engaging content medium. Wow.

29:58 Okay. Yeah. The only company of its kind operating within those parameters is very interesting and something I did not realize about the setup of how you guys are rolling right now. I Know, we just got a few minutes left. Here's kind of a two part question here. One is, when you say young, do you mean like 20s, like 18 to 34 window? Like what's the 30?

30:20 Okay, right in there is primarily our audience. You know, it can get up to, you know, maybe 34, but usually kind of 18 to 30 is kind of about 80% of our audience.

30:34 Yeah, that certainly checks out. And then the second part, I know you have a pretty unique approach to how and part of probably the negotiations of why these games should be allowed to be broadcast here is they would say, well, you're going to miss, we're going to lose all the advertising and commercial revenue. How are you going to solve for that? And again, we talked earlier this week, you said you had a creative solve for it literally in terms of screen layout and it has to do with just the tolerance and expectations of that young audience when it comes to basically an audience that's that age is used to, for better or for worse, double screening all the time.

31:13 And anyway, I'll let you explain it, but I was kind of blown away when you first mentioned how the ads almost are embedded at the same time as the game and the streamer. Am I remembering that right?

31:23 Yeah. So our audience doesn't have that relationship with traditional television. And so all of a sudden stopping and waiting for three minutes to watch what I'm trying to do is really a foreign thing. And so instead of trying to take the audience away from the content, really what we do is we burn in some brand assets that are there the entire time as part of the program. So we're never really taking the audience away from what they're actually watching.

31:55 What we're doing is we're integrating that brand into the story messaging. So in a couple of weeks we're going to be doing something with, with Samsung. And you're actually what it's going to look like you're going to be watching it on YouTube and TikTok and Instagram, but you're going to look like you're watching it in a Samsung tv. Like we've actually created a mortise to where the audience is going to feel like they're watching on a Samsung.

32:16 Right. And like we're not taking them away from the content, we're just like showing it in something that looks like a Samsung Television and it's going to look like that for three hours and we're not going to bombard them with all this different ad breaks and, and all that stuff. It's like we're going to have a really, really clean program that nobody's going to not know who the sponsor of that program is, but we're not going to take those eyeballs away and give them a reason to change the channel.

32:42 Right? Yeah, no, it's, it certainly makes sense for meeting that audience where they are. There's no, there is no tolerance for waiting around to watch however many minutes of your program. Be completely random non personalized advertising as well, that has nothing to do with your demographic.

33:00 And, and you know these live sports feeds, the feeds don't go to commercials. Right. A network puts in those commercials. Right. And so we've just decided to not like go to a commercial break, we just decided to like integrate it out. And so like when the feed goes to a high and wide shot when they're in a timeout, like, well, you get to watch the high and wide shot of whatever the, the audience is doing. Now the branding for Samsung for in this example is still in there, but we're not taking them away from the interaction that they're trying to have.

33:31 Right. And that's really a key in meeting them where they're at is creating a format that feels analogous to what the experience that I'm used to having.

33:42 Okay, well in closing here, I see you've got your new website. It looks great. On that website you have a few categories for brands, for leagues, for creators. Talk about what each of those categories should look for with you and why they should check out creator sports and maybe what's the next kind of milestone on the horizon for the company.

34:02 Yeah, so some shout out to my partner on that great website that's just come out this week. And so like what you see at the top there, those are kind of like the three most important things to us creators being number one in that creator section, it kind of talks a little bit bit about the value proposition. That's actually where the creators go to log into the website. So that's actually a home base for them to come to be able to get in and sign up for the events and actually pull the live feeds and all the graphics that we provide to them.

34:30 So that's actually a working site for creators. Not only informational but, but actually on a daily basis. Creators are coming there to, to stream. Brands are really key. They're the, they make this whole thing possible. Right. They're the heroes in the conversation is the brand messaging. And so we're a little bit different than everything else that they've done. And so we really needed a place to educate the brands on what our value proposition is and why.

34:56 What we're doing, although looks a little bit different, is still kind of the same of what they were doing, yet with just a really, really nice, great young demographic. And then our rights partners, like, you know, they are really the key to the whole thing. The rights partners are what bring the creators. The creators are what bring the brands. And ultimately, you know, we're a little bit different to them as well. Like most of the rights holders in the world are used to going out and getting humongous license fees from their, from their rights partners.

35:28 They don't from us. Because what we're selling necessarily isn't the billions of dollars that traditional networks are selling. What we're selling is access to a young audience. They become, can become lifetime customers, lifetime fans. Right. And a lot of the, the, the questions that we're asking a lot of the leagues is, you know, if today, starting today, if no more 15 year olds fell in love with your sport in 15 years, where will you be when those 15 year olds are 30 and are in their prime earning years feeding the economy and they're not in your stadium and they're not watching your events because they didn't fall in love with you when they were figuring out who they were as a human?

36:11 How damaging is that? It's literally just mathematics. If no more 15 year olds fall in love literally in 30 years, I don't know what the math looks like.

36:23 Yeah, that's a pretty tough one to run from. All right, Barak, thank you so much for taking time on a Friday to do this. I really appreciate it and I hope we can do another episode down the road as this thing evolves. So exciting what you're building. Building.

36:36 Great to have you. Thank you.

36:38 Thanks.