Conclave Politics: Will the New Pope Be Traditional or Progressive? - Fr. Robert Spitzer

0:01 it'll begin and uh um there will be several u um cardinals that are presented as what might be called papable, right? So uh they they would be uh possible candidates uh uh for the pope and then there will be a lot of discussion uh around those candidates that have been moved forward. Uh obviously um you know you they're going to have to get 89 of the 135 cardinals uh are going to have to a twothirds majority in other words are going to have to agree uh on a candidate and if they don't have 89 uh people agreeing um then um you know it's back to the vote again. So they are going to take several ballots. Uh there's no uh question. I mean test ballots first. You know there'd be uh you know people you know that are you know handing in things you know in in some sort of a a way to sort of indicate this person has a chance, this person really doesn't have a chance. Um but eventually they're going to come up with a candidate um that looks like they have uh the potential of um uh being elected um with 89 of the cardinal uh voters behind it. Now, if that actually I would be very surprised if that happened on the first ballot really um because I do think this may be a little bit more extended. I think what's going to have to happen um is uh probably a moderate is going to have to be brought in. Uh this is my view. um and um and and probably a moderate um uh that that is you know um acceptable to both sides and and that's that's going to be um you know uh um you know there's going to be certain back and forth um that will take place there and I think you may have several ballots uh that will have to um you know be entertained before um you know they come up with one that gets 89 of the Cardinals uh votes.

2:07 So, real quick, father, what do you mean by both sides? Um, well, you know, you have people who might be viewed as a more conservative or orthodox group, and I um I mean, I'll People use these terms all the time, and and they would be more traditional. Uh they want, you know, um a more doctrinal approach um uh uh to the uh the papacy. There are other people who are going to be um what I would call more uh liberally or pastorally oriented might be the better word um who would rather have less emphasis on structure, less uh emphasis on church disciplines, things of that nature. So, you know, obviously the sides are are there, everybody recognizes them. And um so at at some point there's there's going to have to be you know if you got to have 89 uh cardinal votes and and you know right there's some you know areas of the world that are more traditionally oriented some areas of the world that are 50/50 some areas that are more liberally oriented more uh progressively oriented they might call it right you're going to have some debate um that's going on but eventually uh there are moderates out there and you know the moderates are not necessarily you know the the press the media right now has picked out all these people that they think are papabil um but um they may not be uh the front runners after two or three ballots if you know you can't get that twothirds uh to agree and so I know people are um coming out you know um you know from everywhere I mean every cardinal is trying to make it and So, um, uh, we can see, uh, pretty clearly this this may be a little bit extended. That's my view right now. But I think they're going to look for someone who's a moderate. I think the person will probably be more or less a progressive moderate or a moderate progressive. Um, you know, um, you know, because simply I think the, uh, the majority of the Cardinals are maybe in that category. And so, uh, I I would say that it's going to take a while to get some agreement. It may not be uh you know a traditional European.

4:27 It it could be another Eastern European. It may be an Asian uh person as well. Uh you know I'm really not sure. So um but I would not be surprised if it isn't a Western European. I don't think it'll be an American. I just don't think we have the constituency um you know that that could make um a moderate uh candidate agreeable uh to um many nations in the world. So I I do think it's probably it could be an Eastern European, could be an Asian uh possibly even, you know, some people think, you know, Fredelene um uh uh could be a you know, a possibility there in in Congo. But um anyway, uh so hard to say right now um you know uh um who the candidate might be, but um we have to let the Holy Spirit work. And I truly believe that the Holy Spirit really will be the agent. I think if people really are open to the spirit, the spirit will lead. And I believe that's what the, you know, has happened in the church before. But, you know, sometimes you, you know, I haven't been to the movie Conclave, but I heard about it. And, you know, I must admit I it sounds like it was a bitterly political kind of, you know, slugging match, which frankly I I think is ridiculous. That's not how a conclave proceeds and it's is certainly the the prayer that is present is quite overwhelming. Um you know there is something going on. I think honestly I I look at the last three popes and I have to believe if that wasn't the Holy Spirit I don't know how those people uh actually were elected at the time they were elected. It just baffles my mind.

6:16 So I think the Holy Spirit's there. I think that that the Cardinals will be open to the Holy Spirit and I do think it that's probably going to be a moderate progressive guy, but what do I know? You know, I'm, you know, the the old bystander here. But, uh, I do think that's that's the way it looks like it's shaping up. And, uh, a lot of people are going to Rome. A lot of people are actually dragging themselves out of bed to go to Rome. My son is studying in Tere. And so he he's he's actually in Rome now, which I told him that you you got to understand what a what an incredible blessing this is turning out to be for you to be there for such a historic thing. These don't happen very often for so many people. Certainly for people who are not Catholic um but but including those who aren't Christian at all. The papacy is a is a controversial role, right? It's like right from the beginning, the splits in the church end up first and foremost seeming to be about the papacy. You for for someone that doesn't know anything about the pope and what the pope's role actually really truly is in the Catholic Church, could you just explain it? Like what what is the pope's job? Where does the pope's um infallibility lie, you know, and help people understand who are coming in cold to this whole thing?

7:43 Well, there's um two things to recognize. The first thing is um the idea of the supreme leadership of Peter goes back to Matthew um uh 16 uh 17-19, right? where Jesus says, "You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the jaws of the netherworld will not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatsoever you declare bound on earth shall be bound in heaven. Whatsoever you declare loosed on earth shall be loosed in heaven." Now, that is a definitely a declaration of supreme authority. It is given to Peter alone. And this text is not just a text um that's uh unique to Matthew's gospel. We can see the remnant uh of that text that Paul St. Paul was aware of it in his letter to the Galatians in the first two chapters.

8:40 There we have many unusual Aramaic expressions uh that are part of that um uh declaration and and you can see it there um right from the very beginning. So um the church certainly uh traces the supreme authority uh of the pope u back to that declaration of Jesus to Peter. And by the way he does that by changing Peter's name. He says, you know, Simon, you are kayos, right? In in in Aramaic, but Petros in Greek, you are rock and upon this rock, right? You are kayas and upon this kayfas, I will build my church, right? And so when he he has that um uh declaration and changes Peter's name, you almost know that it has to come from Jesus. Because to change the name of someone, it requires a super high authority almost as it were higher than the family member that gave the name Simon uh to Peter. And and so that that would be Jesus and Jesus alone. So just these kinds of you put together all the clues um and you can see this is a Jesus probably very much the origin of this supreme authority. So the church, you know, says, "Okay, this is it." Um, you know, uh, you know, Jesus made the declaration. He gives this to no one else except Peter. And he creates an office, right? He's not just creating something for Peter. He is creating an office. That is to say, like a prime minister's office. And that's why he calls it the keys to the kingdom of heaven. uh you can see uh you know in in several uh different Old Testament passages the idea of the keys that are carried on uh the shoulder uh you know of of a person is the mark of of of the prime minister. He stands in the place of the king in all matters except of course um where the king himself can administrate it. And of course if the king is gone then of um he will have all administrative authority until the king returns. Now that's uh you know you can um you know see this in a series of passages and in the Old Testament uh you know and the idea of whatever so it's an absolute whatever you declare bound on earth shall be bound in heaven. So, I'm giving you absolute power. And it's not just to Peter. It's literally he's creating an office of supreme authority.

11:20 And you might say, well, why in the world would Jesus do that, right? I mean, yeah, he he didn't have to um you know, he could have uh created it um you know, for Peter alone or you know, why why create an office? Because Jesus is looking around him and of course as he looks at, you know, the evolution of of Judaism, he sees factions everywhere. There's not just Pharisees and Sadducees and Essenes and Zealots and so forth and so on, right? I mean, there's like factions within the factions within the factions. And how did all of these factions, how did they get going? because they had different interpretations of scripture. Now I you can be sure that Jesus is thinking to himself right because he deliberately was starting a church and he was starting a deliberately a hierarchical church right so he he knows that you know when he is he knows he's going up to be crucified he knows he's going to be risen he already promises the Holy Spirit that they that the Holy Spirit will come and and and help them after he has left the earth, but he knows when he goes, there's going to be infighting. So all of these things he's saying now, there's going to be a hundred people with a hundred different interpretations. And if you can't get that inter the interpretive problem resolved, then you're going to get factions. Some guy's going to go, "Well, I'm taking my marbles and I'm starting this church." And then the other guy goes, "Well, I don't agree with that either. I'm g I'm going to take a my marbles and start a subchurch here." And Jesus is well aware of the factioning problem, right? And the and uh of course the fragmenting of the church. But he is desirous of a unified church. And there's only one way you can have a unified church. and that is to have one guy who at the end of the day is going to be the guy who resolves the problem.

13:39 If you like this clip, you should check out the full video and all the other great content we've got at Dad Saves America. So, be sure to hit the like button, subscribe, and ring that bell so you won't miss our new stuff as it drops each week.