Jagriti facilitation session 9 - 24feb

0:34 Good evening, Ratnesh sir. Good evening. Okay, so for the starting activity uh you would need some objects if you can uh ensure that you have some Yeah, please uh please get some objects around around 11 objects uh for the first activity.

1:35 So, I'm just giving everybody a couple of minutes to do that. Just confirm to me in the chat window if you have the objects ready. So, you can just type a R for ready. Yeah, sorry. I did post in the groups little late today. I totally forgot actually about it. And then I suddenly remembered, "Oh, I have to give you this instruction."

2:07 Anyway, uh we can take couple of minutes. You can grab these objects if you haven't. The first activity that we are doing will need these. So, please confirm to me that you do have these in your in the chat window, please. Then I can start. Obviously, I want to wait uh till you have the objects. Yeah, okay. So, few of you are saying yes. RRR and yes.

2:37 Others uh Arpan, Nishant, who else is there? Oh, Shakila is there. Uh Yeah, people uh people who are joining now uh just ensure that you have around 11 objects with you next to you for the first activity.

3:29 And Right. And also just confirm to me that you have in in the chat window that you have you have the objects with you. Just any random objects. Sure, thanks, Arpan.

4:16 All right, shall we start? I think so. Yeah, it's about 8:04. I think we can start. Okay. Uh So, yeah, I'm assuming everybody has some eight to 10 objects with you. And whichever objects you have got for the next activity, just use those objects. Don't Don't go then and pick something else. Uh that's the instruction.

4:47 The activity is very simple. Uh what you have to do is you have to recreate this picture with the objects that you have. Uh I hope instructions are very simple. Those objects that you have collected, just recreate this picture maybe on the side of your table or bed or wherever you are in the space that you have using those objects.

5:29 As I said now you don't go for new objects. And uh yeah, if you can come on video, that would be nice.

6:04 Yeah, people who have joined in just now, if you had got those eight to 10 objects, I'd put it in the groups. Um and using those eight to 10 objects, you are to recreate this picture. If you haven't got the objects, you can get them now and recreate this this particular picture.

6:35 And when you're done, just type D or done in the chat window. Yeah, once you are done, just type D or done in the chat so I know that you are done.

7:37 Oh, people are still busy doing the activity. Yeah, if you're done with the activity please type done or D in the chat window. Remember, you have to use eight to 10 objects that you have got. So, eight to 12 objects to recreate this picture. Okay, now I got some done. Yeah, D. Few done. Others take Once you are done, let me know so that we can move ahead.

8:20 So, I'll wait till you finish and give me a done in the type in the chat window, sorry.

8:52 Okay, I've got about yeah, four or five people. Four people Five Four people who have done. Waiting for others. So, people who have just joined in, you to get about eight about 10 to 12 objects and recreate this image. Even now, whatever is around you, you can just pick those up and try and put this together.

9:32 And please type done in the chat once you are done. Okay, I think now by now most of you are done. Okay. Okay. So, my question to all of you is you were the doers of this activity. So, as a doer, uh did you have a need of a facilitator or did you need facilitation?

10:14 Yes, no, maybe. Or whatever is your response, you can type it in the chat maybe. No. Or you can you can say in the mic. The question is simple. As a doer of this activity, did you need any facilitation? And apart from the beginning instruction, obviously I have to tell you what the activity is.

10:48 So okay, no, no. Since I know what I have to do, I no facilitation is needed. Yes. Okay, so ladies and gentlemen, we are out of job. We have just been fired. We are not required. How does it feel? Doers don't need us. Boo.

11:31 Okay, Arpan is saying haha. >> [laughter] >> I thought he knew it. This was kind of coming. >> [gasps] >> Yeah? Somebody some thoughts. We've lost our job. We are not required. We are free to do our own things now. Absolutely, absolutely. We are free to do our own things in a way. Unless you know, I thought oh I was needed. Now >> [laughter] >> Now the cannonball has exploded me into small tiny pieces.

12:15 So I will I say don't think I can retire so easily. >> [laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah? You can come on mic also if you want to share. What are we saying? We are saying we are not required. Even if there are instructions what to do, sometimes kids ask like why please help me to do this.

12:47 Or you know, I don't know. I can't do this. Sure. They may ask. Maybe maybe because of many reasons. Maybe because they've got used to it. Somebody telling them or even if they ask you, what makes you think that they are asking you? In the sense, they are asking, but are they asking asking or are they are just asking? You know, just like how if you remember Pranav in that video on the video camera, he was asking how does the sound go in here? But he knew everything about it.

13:24 So he was asking, but his asking was about his thinking. What about his his effort, his struggle, his failures? Why do we think we are needed to do something? Priyanka is saying, but kids can't. Really? Kids can't?

13:54 So maybe that's one belief, kids can't. And the other belief can be but kids can. Yeah, Roli is talking about I am bored. I say nothing. Kids come up with the next action plan, obviously. Well, when he's saying imagine the plight of those of us who teach for a living. Well, well, well, I have a different you know, way to look at it.

14:28 Well, you get you still have a role and you're paid for it and you're not supposed to do anything. Right? So I've I've been Imagine, okay, so you have to be just around and you don't have to do anything and you still get paid for it. So I would look at it as a as a better deal than actually have to put in effort, prepare lesson plan, teach, produce results, blah blah. Priyanka is also saying they need more instruction and guidance.

15:03 Um well, here in this case, okay, I manufactured a activity kind of a thing and gave it to you. Um But really, even this activity doesn't need to be given to them. If they have some objects, they have some visuals, they can start making it or they can use those objects to create whatever is in their imagination or whatever they can do with the objects right from whatever 8 9 10 months old, they will start doing something something with those.

15:32 So I'm not even sure um that um you know that they need more instruction guidance. Maybe we are full of more instruction and guidance. Or maybe we are Yeah, sorry. Go ahead, please. >> we are Yeah, I was wanted to say is we are I think more conditioned on instruction basis. Like if someone will tell us to do something and I think we are like we do wait for them to you know, give the instruction and then we will do. Even though we know that you know, at some point of a time we need to do this. But until and unless someone is telling us, then only we will do it. So this is kind of conditioned in our mind.

16:21 Right. Yeah. Yeah. Roli is saying we are paid to observe. Yeah, we are paid to observe, paid to enjoy. So let's let's look at it this way. If you are okay looking at it this way, that there is there's a child and the child has some needs and the child has some wants. And we are the facilitators.

16:55 And we have some needs and we have some wants. Now the question was, I hope you know the difference between needs and needs and wants or at least we are all pretty much on the same page when it comes to needs versus wants. Would would anybody like to just clarify so that we are all on the same line? The difference between needs and wants? Anybody?

17:25 Yeah, need is which is actually required, which is necessary for us. You know, like roti, kapda, and makan types need. That is need. And the want is like I want Mercedes car. That is a want. I don't need Mercedes. Okay. That that's that is want. Okay. Yeah. >> Want and want can be changed. Need can't. We we can't do much change in need. Mhm. Mhm. Okay.

18:02 Arpan is saying this was but a random fun activity. Kids would eventually need to learn ways of the world. But Arpan, the ways of the world are random fun activities. No? I I am trying to wrap my head around it but honestly because my are kicking in Yes, honestly, the ways of the world are random fun activities which we have changed it to no no no no, it can't be random. It has to be boxed.

18:38 Then it can't be fun. It has to be studied, you know, and marks have to be obtained and all of that. And and then we will say that they are no we don't even call it activities. We do call it something else. You know, we have I'm honestly not even referring to any conventional degrees and conventional jobs and conventional titles. Even if you do anything unconventional, artistic, follow your passion, there has to be a a method to madness, some guidance, some expertise, skills. That's what I was thinking. No, you can go about doing it and as you go about doing it, you can learn. I can give you my example. I started working with children. I knew nothing about them.

19:21 And and if you if you by chance attended or observed my first session, you would say what crap this person is. Throw him out of this planet, out of the orbit of the sun. Right? The first session that I must have taken back with the children, I was horrible, terrible. All right. But that didn't matter. Did it matter? Maybe it didn't matter because we can we can just continue doing it and grow in it. If I want if I'm liking it, if I'm enjoying it. Obviously, if I'm not enjoying it, I would move away to something else.

19:55 Just like the first food, you know, the chapati you would have rolled or the first dish you would have cooked or the first whatever whatever you would have done. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I hear you. I'm going to think over it. Yeah. Sorry, go Yeah. I tried to go I mean, since you were saying the first session of Jagruti or something. Not Jagruti. The first first interaction with children.

20:25 >> interaction with the children. So, let's let's let's I mean, like Arpan is saying that we are just thinking over it. So, let's say let's say let's say the first humans ever. Sure. Let's say I mean, Completely random. It's like the evolution. Yeah, yeah. So, I'm just I'm just trying to support the argument. >> [laughter] >> It's like it's like the evolution of humans uh was completely random.

20:57 >> [clears throat] >> Yeah. Okay. So, let's come back to it. Whether it is fun or not, whether it is random or not, whether it's an activity or not, we will leave uh you to figure out. Uh if you think it's Yeah. >> Yeah, just one If you think in a certain thing So, let let's I just want to run through these little boxes and then I'll take more question. So, if So, let let's look at the needs and the wants. What I'm trying to get at is that at least to me, I'm not even saying that you need to agree with me. I'm just proposing what I what just happened 5 minutes back and what has been happening in my life. If you if you think that the child needs it, then my answer is no.

21:39 As in needs us, needs the facilitator. If you think that we as facilitator need to facilitate, no, we don't need to. Now, in some cases, the child may just want it. The child may just want it. Give it to me, man. Why should I even try it? Just tell me how to do it or if at all that is what the facilitation is. Uh or in some case which is why I put a question mark there. You know, some cases maybe the child wants it. So, I put it as maybe as a question mark. And in a lot of cases, we as adults want to yes, that's why we've written a capital yes. You know, we want to give it to them, you know, you want to show it to them. You want it to be get it done the way we want it. And so on. Again, nothing wrong with any of this.

22:21 So, when we look at it this way, it becomes a little more clearer. Do we really need it? No. Do they need it? Maybe no. Do they want it? Sometimes. Do we want it? Lot of times. [laughter] So, yeah, that that's why that's the further you know, the first line was maybe we are out of job in the second line is that okay, maybe not totally out of the job, but at least this is how we look at it.

22:46 Yeah. So, in some ways, if you look at it, who needs facilitation? Well, maybe nobody. Who wants facilitation more than children? We want the facilitation. Again, nothing wrong about it. Yeah. Yeah. Now, let me take the question. So, Ratnesh, for I have two kids. One is seven. One is just 10 month. Mhm. So, for 10 month, I could observe that in the house, we have placed things so that those things don't move so that he is easily able to walk.

23:22 Then this idea kicked in that why we are facilitating, let him be. So, now he is learning how moving things he has to manage. Okay. And that's a great shift there. He is able to manipulate everything on his own. Sure. Sure. Similar for >> don't say that. He's not able to manipulate everything on He's failing hundreds of times. Yes, yes. He's failing. That failing is a joy. >> Managing better, I would say in that sense that he knows which to choose, when to fail, what is happening. He's fully aware of Absolutely.

23:58 >> all the things that is going on. For a 7-year-old also, we are doing a similar approach like just facilitating. But it's a little bit harder there. For adults, whenever he will be adult in future, I'm still not able to wrap my head around that how this facilitation ends up in adult life. Not just being there for them. Uh what is the result there? Or how how what will manifest then?

24:31 Can you give some example of adults who have been on this path? I'm not totally sure I've understood your question. Um but let me let me not right now get into the question also. Okay. Let me Let me say it this way. To me, when we think about uh facilitation or whatever role we want to I've just called it facilitation. I don't even know what is facilitation.

25:05 Um To me, the whole idea that I am not required is not a fact. It's neither a belief. It's an idea. It's a perspective or even better, it's a paradigm. When I operate from that I'm not required as opposed to when I operate from I am the one who is the key.

25:37 You see the difference? Typically, I would say I am the key. I am responsible. I am the change maker or whatever whatever you want to call it. I as a teacher facilitator make the big difference. As opposed to that I am I am not required. So, when I approach it from when I'm not required. So, when when this whole realization hit us also, it was like a cannonball. We were in you know, on the first account of shattered much like maybe some of you that oh my goodness, I you know, it's like the ground has gone below. Then we slowly realized no, this is this whole paradigm is even more beautiful.

26:17 Because what it does to us is an immediate emptying of our cups. And when my cups are empty, then I can still play a lot of things. So, again, I see I'm not I have nothing wrong with the want. I also have a want. And I can also do something. And the child also has some wants. And we are playing this game of wants and we can play in whichever way we want to. It gives us a lot of options, freedom, opportunities, and relaxation as we were talking about in one of the session.

26:54 Because now I am not shooting just because I think this is my role, this is my image of myself. Hey, I am the guru, the teacher, the facilitator, the the boss, whatever word the leader, whatever word we want to call it. Uh >> So, it's more the Yeah, sorry, just one last repetition. It's more the paradigm or the perspective, whatever word you like. I think that is what it is more about. It's not so much about functionality.

27:28 And maybe in functionality, since we are co-passengers, there is always a co-dependence or interdependence. Yeah. And in some cases, yes, I am I am bigger, let's say I have money, let's say. So, I need to pay and whatever. All of those things, fair enough. I'm not getting into that. But I'm the provider as we call it. Uh But if you if you think of it that way, yes. But that's not the point at all. The point is when we look at a child, do we say, "Hey."

28:02 And which is where this comic strip also comes. Yeah. Now, we can take the questions or more thoughts. Sorry, not questions, more thoughts. Yeah. Ratnesh, I just wanted to share my um take on this or my experience. So, before this also, I think I was taking on that follower leader concept that we had discussed a couple of classes back. And I was, you know, trying to follow it. So, just something like my children are currently going their examinations are on. There was a gap between papers and I said, "Okay, you know, it's you're on your own. You are the leader. You determine your own pace." So, for 3 days, I let it go like that, you know, trying to do follow that. But then sometimes it comes to the point where they are not being the leaders that I expected them to be and you tend to intervene. So, what my experience is that where I stand is that I try to I will try to follow it to whatever extent I can. And then when I'm pushed to it, then I have to resort to maybe being >> Yeah, yeah.

29:06 I get that, but I'm still I would still push you a little more and I would say we we jump into soon. If you start saying as you very very sweetly and very rightly said that as per my expectations, they are not, let's say, prepared for whatever test exam and all of that. Now, that expectation itself is the cat back, you know? You see this this lovely little comic strip. To me, this one comic strip defines the whole the whole, you know, world of difference between what is to be felt that I am required and to be not required. Which is what I'm saying, it comes too soon. See, John brought the bag. The cat did not get into the bag.

29:48 John is already angry. Within within three frames. That's exactly what I'm trying to say. We get our expectations, our um yeah, our our frames, I know, >> [clears throat] >> our way of looking at things. The tea in our cup starts playing its the game too soon. And we are we are, you know, jumping into it too soon. Yeah, you're probably right. I agree. Whether the child comes crying and we all that we need to pacify, whether the child has got a problem, or whether we Okay. But when we when we when we step back and say we are not required, we're not needed, then every time the child comes, the first bell that rings is I'm not needed.

30:37 Even if the child comes and says, "Please, I beg you. Please, please, please teach me." And I will say, "Please, please, I beg you I beg you don't let me teach you." >> [laughter] >> So, I can be as vociferous, as adamant, as you can say pleading, begging in this whole game because um because I want to see. I want to wait. I want to I want to observe. I want to receive the child's ways, the child's thoughts, the child's failures, the child's successes.

31:20 You know, I I don't know which I I told you this very cute little story um not a story, but incident where the child comes into our center and comes up to me and says, "Uncle, is there a holiday today?" This was when we had a center in Bangalore. You know, so she I was sitting at the reception table and I said um "You tell me, is there a holiday today?" In my own, you know, not not ready to answer me. She said, "Uncle, is there a holiday today?" I said, "You tell me, is there a holiday today or not?" She said, "Uncle, tell me >> [laughter] >> And I said, "I want to know what you think because your thinking is important to me."

32:07 Now, you would say you I was putting my importance versus her importance, but anyway, that the that's the game. And when I said this, she kind of stared at me in a glaring way, and then she stepped out to once again kind of double-check her data. And she went back to the shoe rack. The shoe rack was empty. That was the reason she asked that question. And somehow at that moment three four more children came in, you know, giggling, shouting.

32:37 And that's when she heaved a sigh of relief and ran in and said, "Uncle, there is no holiday today." >> [laughter] [gasps] >> So, you see the choice of what I do is still with me. Do I want to jump in or um or not jump in. Or how I want to jump in, or when I want to jump in. But at least I'm free of that thing that oh, I am the one who who is going to make the big difference. I know the child is going to make a difference. At best, I will mess it up.

33:24 Okay. So, let's think about this hypothetically Yeah. Continuing continuing the example what you said about the holiday, if the child would have stepped out of the facility thinking that it's a holiday, would you have permitted her to go? No, but that is not the point. Obviously, again, you're bringing in a safety issue and you're trying to again the the it's not a zero-100 game. The well, I'm I'm not even there with your question. I'm saying it's not about what you do. It's about the well, it's about what you believe in.

34:02 Now, will you do whatever you teach, slap, cajole, convince, do whatever you want to do, but do it from the frame of reference that I'm not needed. It will be very different. I can kick you, or you can kick me, but if I'm kicking not from the perspective that I better do this, you know, [laughter] but I'm doing it with an empty cup, then that's a very different kick. So, it's not about what I do, or what I don't do, or how I do. If you come here, you will say, "Ratnesh, one moment you will just do this way, and another moment you do this way." And I will say, "Exactly."

34:41 But in both the moments, it's not about what I do, but where am I coming from? The same push, the same thought, the same thing can be a huge difference. It depends from where I'm coming from. The well.

35:17 Right? So, Lavanya is saying from our beliefs we build expectations and fool. Uh I don't know if that is what I'm saying. Yeah, I mean beliefs definitely lead to our expectations, and then expectations also further build maybe images, and images build beliefs, and all of these are all part of the same mixture. One is all related to the other. Just like if I the moment I drop this idea that I am required, then suddenly my expectations go for a total toss.

35:50 Toss in the sense I don't have it anymore. Or at least they are very different. And then when am I expectations are different, my responses will be different. Different is only what I'm saying. But Ratnesh, for example, uh my child has classes. He's interested also. I gave him all uh everything like you you decide whether you sit for that class or not. He missed few classes just because I didn't intervene and tell him that go time for your class.

36:29 That was the only thing that I missed. And I gave him everything like you do whatever you choose. And then later he's saying that >> So, you you don't do anything. You don't even tell me when the class is happening. Now, it is again coming back to me. That So, what if he's saying? >> mind? What if he's saying? What are his feelings? Disappointment. So, did you acknowledge that? No. But you it wasn't about what he was saying. It was about what he was feeling.

37:03 And he expressed it in that way that you are such a stupid, ugly, horrible mom. I mean, he didn't say that. I'm just trying to exaggerate it. >> Yeah, yeah, it is the same. And he isn't talking about you. Mhm. He's talking about his feelings. >> [laughter] >> We have to look into what image are we holding about ourselves. Okay. That changes. Isn't he talking about his feelings? Yes.

37:38 >> [laughter] >> See, again, you are you are in a way you are right. We have to start with some functionality. But this game is interesting because when we play with the functionality, we may still not be 100% there. And when the child bags come to us, then we say, "Oh God, this, that, this, that." Yes, but the game continues. Mhm. Right? Right. Right. Like how Arpan is saying, meaning yes, if the child is choosing. I think the moment you are saying uh it's up to the child to choose whom he wants to learn from and evolve.

38:12 Exactly. It could be YouTube. It could be a book. It could be anybody. It could be me also. It's nothing wrong that I teach. Again, the point of teaching is not good or bad. It's not right or wrong, Arpan. Right? I am it is not about what he is asking for, or what we are doing. It's about where am I coming from? That's why this cat back is such an amazing you just hold this in your mind.

38:41 You know, look at look at the first two frame. He's just got a bag and he's saying cat loves bag. And then there's this expectation creeping in that it that Garfield should jump or whatever, do something with this bag. And if you would have seen this in your life happening. And this is not happening in terms of whether I am a facilitator or not. If I brought a bag, great, awesome. I brought a resource. It's like a teaching. The resource is also like a teaching. I brought a bag.

39:10 Now, let the child choose. If Garfield doesn't want to embrace this bag, good enough. Garfield is the cat for who for whoever does not know them, the comic strip. So, this seems like me, actually. >> [laughter] >> All of us. I don't just think me. He loves chess, and I suggested that you do these classes, you know, >> [clears throat] >> it will be good for you. And I wanted him to jump in and sit and do it every day.

39:39 That's So, it's a So there's a difference between invitation, right? When we invite somebody, if I say, "Okay, sometime come over for lunch." So that's an invitation. Is there any load? Is there any tension on you? No. But if I if I say the same thing not as not as an invite, but now I start saying, "Hey, why are you not coming? You think I'm not good enough? You think this?" You see, I can start brewing inside me.

40:11 Okay, so oh, you think you are very smart and you think I'm not smart and you think this and I think this. Okay. So I will leave it for you to see whether you would like to just play around with this image itself, the image of a facilitator. Yeah, I don't know how many of you when you thought of the topic of the session is facilitation, what did you think about it? But to me, this is another image that I am the facilitator, which means I have will I am the one who's supposed to facilitate. You see the problem?

40:53 Well, the child can also facilitate [clears throat] himself. Another child can also facilitate himself. A resource can also facilitate himself. Time can also facilitate. And even if I facilitate, I can facilitate in such a way that it messes up more than does better for the child. Possible?

41:24 So that's the first thought. Just Just I I would say if it's if it's like looking too too drastic, that's okay. Just Just hold this thought or keep it somewhere on the side or throw it in the nearest dustbin. Doesn't matter. Yeah. Now I've already polluted your brain to the idea of us being not required. See how it plays around with you and how does the game go around. Right? Um But meanwhile, I want to go back to the previous activity and show you something else. Um the that that what can happen um or rather what is happening. Yeah? Um just give me a moment. Meanwhile, somebody else has a thought. I can take a thought. No problem.

42:09 Uh So um Ratnesh, you're framing it as not a prescription for action, but uh facilitation as a paradigm to operate from. Like I found that very helpful. Uh But often, at least in my case, what prevents us from accessing that paradigm or operating from that paradigm is the fear of the unknown.

42:40 See, this is the world I know. This is the world I'm familiar with. This is what I'm comfortable with. Right? Stepping out of that, see, true facilitation requires a certain acknowledgement that I'm no longer in control of things. Right? And just like things turn out well, things could I mean, well as in the way we put it, things can also turn out not well or quite contrary to our own expectations. So what do you do with that fear of the unknown?

43:16 Enjoy it first. Understand the fear, enjoy it, embrace it, see what purpose it is serving. Must be serving some purpose. If you have a fear, it must be serving some purpose. No, Elman. Otherwise, why will you have a fear? Understand its purpose, enjoy. But think about it. Do you want to give the same gift to the child, that fear? You want to give give the give the same gift of fear to your child?

43:54 Or do you want to give the gift of you, the fearful you, to the child? Or even better, I will tell you the best thing to do. Take your Take help of your consultant and say, "I am fearful of this fear of unknown, that if I don't if I step into this, I have not done things like that. How will you take it? How will you do it?" Just call your consultants. Elman, you do work with children. You will have so many consultants. Call them. Take their help. They will fix you.

44:30 They will chisel you, cut you, sharpen you, blunt you, whatever. They will fix you. They will release you from all this. No? That's the beauty. They are the best people. Ratnesh is horrible. You leave Ratnesh. Take your consultants in. They are the ones who would really help you. And also, if you have time sometime, think about what beliefs are bringing this fear.

45:05 What is this fear of unknown? We don't even know what will happen tomorrow, but we still are aiming for it or welcoming it or ready for it or preparing ourselves for it. Right? The biggest unknown possibly was when you had a child. We >> [laughter] >> Most of us had no idea how to parent. Right? And then, lo and behold, one day we had a baby in our arms and we were like totally zoned. What to do with this little one? You know, there's a very cute Sudhir cartoon. Sudhir was a famous cartoon uh in which the the guy the father is bringing the baby back to the nurse and saying, "Uh ma'am, you need to change change this one leaks."

45:52 You know, the plight of the >> [laughter] >> Well, it is so it is so, you know, uh you know, a way blunt, but [laughter] but the plight of the father that oh, this one leaks. So So we start there. Right? Completely unknown. Do we know anything about our children? No. Or Or you know, giving um giving whatever. Giving care to them or giving companionship to them or giving parenting to them.

46:25 And that's So So our all our journeys are unknown. To me, the every journey is an unknown. And when I start thinking about that, then I start thinking, "Oh, this fear is telling me something." Yeah. So we'll have to think about it. What do we want to give to the children? Right? Some people will say, "I'm scared about the future." I say, "Yeah, so you want to give that gift?" So would you want Would you like to have people around who are scared of future? Or you want to have people around who are comfortable with what is inside us?

47:02 What kind of people you want around? Your child. And if that is what you want, then you work on that. Okay. Let's uh Let's get back. This is lot more to think. So I am I'm not spending time more on this, not because I cannot or don't want to, but I want to you to just just think about this or just let it be there, not even as a thought, just as a notion, as a window which you can always go to and and open and see, "Okay, today, let me open that window for half an hour which says I'm not required." And see what happens. Or today we are going for a party or today we are going for a shopping or today we are going to play a game of cards or cricket or carrom.

47:49 Today, in this game of carrom, let me play let me open this window and try this perspective that I'm not required. Let's see what happens. You know, today when she takes my sari and cuts and makes it into a dress, let me take this role and see what You know, let me let me try. So So just play it as a as a game if you want to play. At least that's how we did it. We We played it like a game and it became it became so much fun.

48:19 You're still enjoying it. Lavanya is talking about changing. Lavanya, don't change, please. You don't have to change. Just get new beliefs and include them with your old beliefs. You know, see if if if let's say you are used to wearing saris, Lavanya, and suddenly somebody says change all your saris to let's say western dresses, I'm sure you will revolt.

48:51 But if somebody says, "Oh, you already have 20 saris. The 21st, instead of a sari, try a western dress." You might be more open to it, isn't it? So who is telling you to change your belief system? Don't change your belief system. Get more empty cups. Get more windows. Just say, "This is also one one dress that I have. One day I can one hour I can play this role and enjoy it." And then whichever dress you start liking, don't you start wearing that automatically as you wear different?

49:21 Or maybe for certain occasions you may want this, like for the exam occasion. Somebody wanted to to, you know, hold on to that. Right? >> [clears throat] >> So that's absolutely fine. I I don't have anything I mean, I don't see any issue with that soil, isn't it? For the for the exam when you wanted to choose another dress, but for something else you will choose another dress. Just like that have just more beliefs. Please don't worry about changing anything.

49:52 In any case, I don't want to change. Do you want to change? But yes, we don't mind new dresses, new perspectives, new windows. New apps in our phones or whatever. And I will show you one more way. Let's let's let me show you one more uh way. Um not really of of of changing beliefs, but of enjoying the child. I always go back there. Okay. So um Just just bear me out. This may look like a very funny kind of a exercise, but I I want to maybe take about 5 minutes for this or maybe uh yeah, around that much time. So just bear with with with me out for this. Um Imagine that um Okay, no I'm not even forget. I I need two people who had initially be part of this activity. You know, we did this. You had the objects.

50:50 So two volunteers I need whom I can interact with. I'll just ask you some questions to get some data for you. I will not trouble you, bother you, torment you. Uh okay, I'll just ask you some simple questions. If you were the one at the beginning who had the objects ready and then um whatever this activity was done, I just need to interact one or two people. Okay, Priyanka is raising hand. Who else? Who else? One more person.

51:21 Just two people for two different kinds of anybody who was there at that time. You just have to have the mic on and maybe video, but Yep, anybody else? Okay, Shikha is raising hand. I think more than Shikha, her daughter is raising hand. Yeah, I can see your hand. Good enough. Okay, so we'll have three people. Shikha, Shikha's daughter, and Priyanka.

51:54 Um Shikha, what's your daughter's name? It's Sia. Sia. Sia, okay. Hi, Sia. You can also answer to my questions. Okay. I I If you did this activity with with your mom, then you can answer this question. Okay? Okay. Okay. >> Yep, okay. Um So the questions are very simple. When you when I when Okay, let's start with when I asked you to collect the objects, uh what was going on in your mind?

52:29 The collection when I've not even shown the image. When I asked you to collect the object, what was going on in your mind? What did you think? Whatever was around me, I just picked up. Yeah, you But wait wait wait wait wait wait, that's not possible. You didn't pick up whatever. A chair was also around. Okay, refrigerator could have also been around, but you didn't pick those up. So please tell me on what was going in your mind on what basis were you choosing or rejecting something?

52:58 Yeah, that was uh small in size. Okay, what is small? Small like uh this. Yeah, yeah. >> [laughter] >> I don't want you to show the toy. I'm saying what is small. What is your mind thinking? Size of the object. Yeah, what is small? What was small for you? Please define small. The uh which I can uh handle easily, pick pick up easily, fastly. >> Okay. Which I can pick up easily. Okay. Okay. Uh Priyanka, did you have a different uh small?

53:31 >> [laughter] >> You were you were thinking about small. Were you thinking about small? I was thinking of getting different objects. Preferably I had I had mostly toys near me, so I did not want to pick all toys. I wanted to get some different objects like one toy, one other one charger, one pen. So I wanted to have different kind of objects. >> Okay, so you were focusing on the objects being different, yeah, of different cat category. Yes. While Shikha is more Were you more focusing on what I can pick up easily, Shikha?

54:07 Easily, yes. And variety also. I picked up remote. Okay, so you also thought about variety. What else? Did you guys check about temperature? No. Oh. Oh ho. Did you check about uh cost? No. Did you Did you consider uh material? Plastic, metal, cloth? No, no. Okay. Okay. It it it's just a question. So that's that's Okay, let's come back uh So okay, some basis you decided and and you realized that there are so many other factors. If we start writing down, we can maybe come up with 60 factors which you did not consider.

54:52 For example, were they rough or smooth? Okay. Uh did they have two sides or one side? Were they more three-dimensional, two-dimensional? Were they Did they belong to you or who did they belong to? Will I get scolding from my daughter for picking up her toys or not or son or whatever? So see, I can list up 70 more criterias to pick or not pick something. Maybe you did. Maybe for certain things you did think about certain other factors and rejected or selected them.

55:20 Fair enough. I just wanted to sensitize that your mind was already into the activity when you were choosing the objects itself. And that itself can be a very very interesting Just the activity. If I would have said, "Pick up 10 objects and come." And we could have just discussed how did you pick up those 10 objects, all of you. And can't that be a beautiful activity to understand what kind of materials we have in houses, what kind of resources which are recyclable, which are from abroad, which are from India, which I bought, which were gifted, which I like, which I don't like, which I would hate to break, which I'm okay breaking.

56:00 >> [laughter] >> Go on and on and on. Which I'm okay showing. Which I'm okay showing, not okay showing. Okay. Uh and so on. Which I can throw in air and catch comfortably, which I will not even dare throw in the air and catch. Let's say a glass, something. So we can go on and on just on the objects that you selected. We can spend a day, two days, 10 days, 15 days just on the selection of the objects. There are so many pathways right there. Okay, let's let's move a little ahead. Okay, I'll be going very very slow and I'm I'm very very thin slices of time. So hope everybody please be patient for me with me for these 5 minutes. Oh, I've already eaten up three of those.

56:44 Um Okay, uh when the image came on the screen, what was the first thing that you saw? Uh it's an image uh it's a Warli painting. Oh no no no no no no no no. You reached the conclusion. Wait wait wait, that's not You're going too fast. I'm a very very slow train. The first thing that you saw. A girl. Not possible. What was the first thing that you saw? See, a girl requires lot of data to be put together to be concluded that it's a girl. Two highlighted triangles.

57:19 Triangles. Circle and triangle. Let's take only two people. If more people start giving in data, I'll have too much of data to handle. Let's just let let me just right now interact with uh Shikha and Priyanka, but you all can think what your mind was thinking. Just to see how different each mind was thinking. Right. So what was the first thing that you noticed? Circle, triangles. And the bright orange color >> Wait wait wait uh wait wait, slow down slow down slow down. So you are saying you noticed the circle. Okay. So you noticed a shape.

57:56 Shape, yes. Shape. >> And you concluded that it's a circle? Yes. On what basis? Because it's not a circle. Face face surface was circle. But it's not a circle. >> [laughter] >> Is it a circle? See it carefully again. It is some oval. No, no oval kind of. Sorry. Oval. No no no, but you used the word circle. See, your mind is thinking circle. There is nothing wrong or right. [clears throat] Wait wait wait, I'm just trying to show you how your mind is thinking in very thin slices. Maybe in nanoseconds it is thinking. So first thing you saw is something out there that that shape at the top. Means Yes. Okay, in your case you're saying I saw something at the top.

58:45 And the moment I thought I saw that at the top, you thought it's a it's a circle. Yeah. Okay, and then what was possibly the third thing? Uh the orange bright orange color at the background. Uh okay, so from seeing that shape and saying circle, your mind immediately went to the orange color. Are you sure? Or were there some more steps in between? >> Circle, triangle. Then after >> Yes, so did your eyes go down and saw the second shape?

59:16 Yes. Okay. Uh sorry, before the circle, did it conclude it's a head or not yet? It first analyzed the shapes and then it concluded that that's probably a head. No, it's a head. No no no no no no no. I'm not talking about whether it is ahead or not. I'm saying the order. So first you said it you thought your mind thought it's a shape. Then your mind thought it's a circle. Then what was the next thing? Did you move to the down shape? Yes.

59:46 Okay, so let's Yeah. Then then you said that shape is also a triangle. What made you think it's a triangle? Uh the kind of Mhm, yeah. The triangles. These are not exactly triangles. >> that's okay. That's okay. What made you think it's a triangle? I'm saying. Don't look at it now. You have to go back at that moment. What made you think it's a triangle? It has three sides.

60:17 Yeah, it has Yes, so so that means you you did not just see a shape. You counted the number of sides. Yeah. Yeah, my mind thinks I did not Yeah, yeah, you know, okay, you and your mind is the same thing. >> [laughter] >> Unless you think that that that guy lives outside you. Yeah. >> So your mind I'm going very very slow. Shape saw and you concluded it as a circle because it was a roundish kind of thing. Yeah. You did not realize that it is not a circle circle, but it it's not a geometric circle, but it's a round thing.

60:49 Then you said I went down as a next shape, then I saw something with three sides. And then I said it's a triangle. Okay. And then what did you do? Then I saw the bright orange color. Okay. So you have just seen a shape of a head and some triangles. Sorry, shape. You Sorry, you've seen a circular shape, then you've seen a triangle, and then you are directly going into the orange color.

61:21 Yes. Okay, did you also notice when you Yeah, yeah, wait, wait, wait. When you notice that it is orange, did you also notice the black? Yes. Okay, so which one did you notice first? The black or the orange? The black. You didn't tell me that. The black first first. I noticed the black. And why did you notice black first and not orange first? Because it it was a shape or a you know, picture. Picture I catch a picture.

61:52 Okay, it was a picture. Okay, then you saw orange and then Then I was more focused on what is that girl doing? Wait, wait, wait, wait. You're going again very fast. When you noticed the orange, what was the next thing did you do? Your mind do? What is she doing? What is happening? No, no, you're you've already gone to the she. So she conclusion, when did that happen? So you you said you saw a shape, a circle, next you saw triangles, then you saw orange. What next?

62:23 There must have been a next multiple steps before you reach the she part. The hands I noticed. Okay, so the hands and legs Okay, so again those Direction of the Okay, so you you you're saying you saw the lines. Yeah. And then No, no. Already were you calling them hands? When did you start stitching this whole thing together into one big picture, one whole picture? After seeing a circle, triangle, then Uh so then we Was it before orange, after orange? Af- uh after orange. Okay. Not necessarily you will remember it correctly. That's okay, it doesn't matter. After orange, I think. So after orange, did you kind of zoom out and looked at the whole picture? Is that what you're saying?

63:13 Yes. And then what made you conclude it's a girl? It has a [clears throat] tail. Ah, only girls have tails. Okay. Then you saw the tails and for some reason the tails you attributed to girls, so you thought that this is a girl. And then you went on to lines and hands and all that. Okay. Priyanka, how was your journey? Was it similar, different?

63:44 Uh it was a little similar, I would say. But uh I think I noticed the color first. Which color? The black color. Okay. The black color first. Okay. And then the shapes. And probably the circle first. The circle or the oval. Okay. Uh the the bold shapes first. I I saw the hands very late. I saw the circle, then both the triangles.

64:18 And By looking at the triangle, I guessed that it's a girl because the lower triangle appeared as a skirt, as a dress that a girl would wear. Okay, and then you call that as a girl. Okay, let's let's pause here. And and and if you are still if you're not already bored out of this discussion, you'd have realized we have talked about just about very nanoest of the seconds that has the mind has worked this out, right? What you you you guys maybe took a minute and out of minute for the first second we're talking about the nanosecond. And in nanosecond itself you see there are so much data.

65:01 There are so many concepts. There are so many connections that you are making. And we can explore any of them. Mhm. We can go about what does black color mean to us? What black against a lighter color or a orangeish color, what does that mean? What does a shape mean? Why do we need to give a meaning to a shape? Why do we need to call it a name? When do we call it circle? When do we not call it circle?

65:31 Why what do we call as triangles? Why is that there? What if the What if the arrangement was different? What if the the round was below and the and the triangles were above? Or they were somewhere else. What did that we would do? Why are we trying to make a sense of it as a male or a female? Why was that important to us? Your mind went in that direction. For somebody else that need not be the important thing. Somebody even thought of Warli and all of that. That's like to even further down. Right?

66:06 So in few nanoseconds itself you can see there are at least I can if you look at it, I can at least see 10 different pathways we can explore with the doer. We can either go on on anything. First of all, we can go on some 60 pathways on the objects chosen. And then if within these also we have another 10. And if I keep going ahead, then what did you do? Then you started correlating your shapes with this shape.

66:37 Then how did you correlate? Which features of this shape matched with which features of that shape? Which of the objects did you select? Why did you select this? Why did you not select this? You see there is so much thinking happening inside you. And each one of them can be an amazing pathway to explore your thinking, your wanting to where you want to go, how you want to how you see the world, what knowledge you have about girls, about boys, about hairs, about Warli, about art, about drawings.

67:13 I can go on and on and on and literally we can spend the whole day just trying to understand what's going on inside your mind. We call these as you know, sushi slices. They're so thin. But each one is like a like a curriculum by itself. Or a pathway by itself, which we can explore with the child if we want to.

67:48 Now if you look at it from a multiple intelligence perspective, there is so many already there in just the first few minutes. It's about gender, it's about art, it's about mathematics, it's about meaning geometry. So many things in just a few nanoseconds. So many concepts, so many thinkings. You see how a smallest of the thing is full of full of exploration, full of learning, full of concepts, skills, knowledge, whatever you want to call it.

68:29 That is what I also wanted to show you. But we will do that if you are not in a hurry to reach somewhere. How well is the artwork or whatever the activity we started with. The whole idea of activity is only to activate, isn't it? And you are already activated. See, within few seconds how much action is happening in your mind. And I haven't even gone in full full details. We just started.

69:04 Now if you can understand the treasure lying in anything, and that is the beauty of being there with the child. And the child may choose anything. A child may be stuck on colors. Another child may go into shapes. Another child may go into quickly I don't want to draw girl. A A [laughter] boy may say, I don't want to draw a girl. I want to make it into a boy." Right? So, each child is thinking differently and we can be with that child.

69:38 So, when we go into the details of anything like this, uh we call it details or slices, then we can actually be with the child. Or actually be with whichever part invite the child for any path with the child chooses. So, when you get involved in so many things, then where is the need for your facilitation? There is no need.

70:08 There is so much to explore. There is so much to enjoy. Yeah. So, I'll pause here, not take questions. Let's take a small break. It's 9:10. And uh let's see how uh we we we will come back after the break and get into another activity and see if you want to explore explore what we just till now explored and see how that comes up. Yeah? So, yeah. Let's Let's do that. Let's Let's take a small break. It's 9:11.

70:47 Let's come in about 5 6 minutes. So, maybe by 9:16, 17, let's be back. And then we'll get into an interesting activity.

78:09 Okay. I hope people are back. Just let me know if everybody's back or most of you are back. So, let's start a simple a little activity or kind of a game. We'll We'll get into discussion later. Okay, maybe we or maybe I can pause a little. Uh Okay. Let's do the game, then we will We'll discuss the previous point as well as the game also. Right. So, Yeah. Okay. So, we haven't really explored what is a facilitator and what is facilitating, which anyway I don't know, so we'll not get into that.

78:50 We will leave for each one to decide what is it for us facilitator is. So, we'll play a small game where each one of you will be a doer one by one. So, it's like at one point of time one of you will be the doer or the denner, whatever you want to call. And all the other people will be the facilitator. Yeah? Just that for each one of us who would be the facilitator, uh not just the doer, everybody else also is a doer.

79:19 Does that make sense? So, imagine you are the facilitator in the group that way. Uh And and that that is how it will go on. Yeah. Uh Is that Is that clear? So, I will need to just one moment go into a slideshow mode. Okay, just one moment. Let me set this up. Sorry.

79:50 I think it will come on slideshow. Okay, is this clear? So, yeah, and you can play the role of the facilitator anyhow you want. You can speak. You can Yeah, preferably speak.

80:24 So, as many of you uh please be on video and so that the others can receive you as a facilitator. So, it will be nice if you are on video because otherwise how will they uh follow what you all want? Right? So, preferably, yeah, be on video and audio. And uh Right. Okay. So, please again requesting as many people please come on video and audio so that we can Many audio you can unmute whenever you want to speak so that you can talk to the one who is doing and facilitate. So, this is all you all will be doing. So, it's important that maybe they can see you and and so on.

81:10 Okay. So, the game starts with a base number as 13. One of you will start as the doer. You can somebody can say I'm the first doer. And uh there will be a question and you have to kind of solve it or arrive at the new number based on the question or based on the prompt. And once you arrive at the new number, you can tag somebody else and then the next person will be the the second doer.

81:38 And then so on it will go on. But for the second person, the new base number will be what the previous output was. Yeah. I hope is this clear? Right. Let's start. Let's see how it goes. It's not very complicated. Simple game. So, I want one person to be the starter. Who wants to go first? For whom the number 13 will be the base number and who would be the first doer and everybody else will be the facilitator.

82:09 Anybody can raise hand. And then we can go tagging. Okay. Well, one has raised hand. So, Welwan is our first doer. Remember everybody, you are a facilitator not just to Welwan but to everybody else in the group here. Right? And you can freely interact with anybody using mic and video preferably. Okay. So, your base number is 13, Welwan. And the question is on the screen.

82:39 Question is next odd number not divisible by five. I'm reading out the first one and then onwards you guys can take over. And whenever Yeah, sorry sorry, one small instruction. Whenever you reach you want the next You want to tag the next person and want the next prompt, just let me know. I will put the next prompt. Yeah. So, that's the first prompt. Next odd number not divisible by five. May I answer this?

83:11 Can you repeat that, please? Yeah. So, I I I should answer answer this now? I don't know. You are the doer. Okay. Next odd number not divisible by five would be 17. And I tag Shikha.

83:41 Okay. Next odd number Yeah, you have to You don't ask me for the next prompt whenever you you guys all want it. I'm just the Okay. >> key presser. Huh? Shall I tell next number? No, you For you there will be another prompt. So, you have to ask me, Ratnesh, give us the next prompt or something like that. >> Okay, please give us Give me next prompt.

84:14 Next number when divided by seven will leave a remainder of two. Yeah, there's a typo there. Just ignore that typo in the word remainder. Shall I say that number?

84:50 Shall I say? Number two. We're all facilitators, right? Yes, we are. So, what is our role? Can I say that number? I think you should, yeah.

85:23 >> [clears throat] >> 10. 1 + 7, I don't know. Your base number is 17. >> 17. Base number is 17, no? 17. Base number was 17, not the previous solution.

85:56 >> 17, yeah. 17, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay, divided by seven. Okay. >> [clears throat] >> Um two. Okay. But two.

86:27 So, I Sorry, I could not understand. Do I need to use 17? 17 also? >> was the game, no? The first person gets a base number. Yes. >> And then the answer of the first question is your base number, the next person's question. Oh. So, he answered 17. >> What does the What does the base number mean? You have to go ahead of that, behind that, or it just doesn't mean anything?

86:59 Yes. What do you think so? >> [laughter] >> 17, number 17. Okay. Um 17, no. Sorry, I'm not being able to do.

87:32 I think we can try to help. >> Yeah, what help do you need? >> Tables. Tables of seven. Seven sevens. Basically, you have to move ahead because it's the next number. It's of seven. >> [snorts] >> When this Um 11 nine. Seven nines But how do I leave a remainder of two?

88:18 You just need to add two to the uh number you get from seven's table. Okay. Yeah, use the seven's table as a reference point. 121 121 next number. 120 So, we move ahead from 17.

88:49 And >> [snorts] >> you have to look for a number which is divisible by seven but leaves a remainder of two. That means That means you add two. Sorry? After 17, which would be the next um multiple of seven? After 17? Seven >> Let's try.

89:27 Do it. One. Sorry, I'm not being able to do this. I'm sorry. Do it. So, okay. Um Many of us have flung in math. >> [laughter] >> Just say any number which comes to your mind. Yeah. Just 119.

90:00 How did you reach to 119? Multi Multi [clears throat] Yeah. Uh yeah, the 121 can be the number. I think. 121. Okay, and why uh why do you think 121 is the answer? I have uh 119 uh I multiplied 17 by 7, and then 119, then I added two. Yeah, that should also be okay.

90:30 You know? 121. You have to now nominate the next. Where did you get the 119 from? >> I nominate Sohela. But do you want to answer Dhaval's question first? Where did you get the 119 from? I mean I multiplied 17 >> She said, "No, 17 into 7." Yeah. 7. Okay.

91:01 But you were supposed to divide. Why did you multiply? I think she used 17 as the base number, and Base number, then I used that. Okay. Sohela, you'll have to tell Ratnish. Yes, Ratnish, I'm ready for the problem.

91:34 >> [snorts] [clears throat] >> I mean, 121 again would be the answer, but if I have to move ahead, probably 144. Odd number, no. Then 169.

92:11 169. Guys, do you think that makes sense? Uh so, Sohela, uh how do you interpret the question such that 169 would be the right answer? So, again, I'm going >> [clears throat] >> by the base number 121, uh which we got from the previous uh uh solution. And uh if you have to arrive at a square root as a whole number, so 11 squares are uh and then 12 11 squares are is 121, right? Yeah. And yeah, which is 121 itself. So, I'm going by the next number.

92:50 12 squares are 144. And 13 squares are 169. 144 is even, so hence going by 13 squares, 169. Okay. So, next means what? Next to the base number, or something else? The square root is a whole number, right? So, I have to go with uh 121 being the base, which is anyway got 11 as the square root.

93:27 So, I'm just moving forward to the next odd one, because 12 is even, and 13 is odd again. Does Does the square root need to be odd number?

94:00 The next odd number which has a square root as a whole number.

94:30 So, yeah, Sohela, if you're sure with the answer, like would you like to pass it? So, that I think that's the sense I make of it. So, I'd go with 169. Looks like KBC. >> [laughter] >> Um and if that's okay, then I'd nominate Dhaval as next. There are two Dhavals. Oh, Dhaval G.

95:05 I'm going to have a bad dream about maths. I don't know how many of you still get it. I have it, I mean. Yeah, Ratnish, you can But I I'm I'm not sure whether the answer that you've given for the next number is correct or not. So, it's uh Next Who's sum of digits is the factor of Not recovering from nightmares.

95:41 Yeah, who can facilitate for this? And zero idea. Next number whose sum of digits is factor. Next part. Sohela, your answer was one?

96:11 169. Nice. Next number whose sum of Why did you choose me? >> [laughter] >> You were there on my screen. You were appearing in my >> [laughter] >> So, that nanosecond has cost you now. Oh, oh my god. But okay, I don't think we are stressing ourselves over it.

96:47 Our next 16 number. Oof. Anybody knows the answer? Or guesses the answer to start with? Okay, Dhaval. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, maybe you can try adding the digits in 169 itself.

97:20 Uh What do you get? Sorry? So, if you add the digits in 169, what do you get? Mm 7. Can you explain how? 1 + 6 + 1. No, 169, Dhaval. Oh, sorry. Uh 7 7.

97:53 16. 16. Uh is it possible to multiply 16 by anything to get 169? Uh I mean, you get a number, but it won't be a even, no. It will be like .something something always. >> Yeah, so, will you get 169 or not if you multiply 16 by something? Sorry? Okay, if you You added the digits. You got the answer.

98:25 >> Okay, okay, let's pause pause pause. >> [laughter] [gasps] >> Okay. Any Okay, um when we started the game, two three two three questions, not necessarily that you have to answer, just think about them. When we started the game, how many of you started calculating the answer? You know, when it was, let's say, Velavan's turn. Anyway, Velavan was supposed to solve it, but how many of you were also solving it? Why? Yeah, I was doing it, yeah. Why?

98:59 Was it your job? And what you think that solving did to you? Irresistibility. >> [laughter] >> Log to a No, but you are you are not you are not solving it when you don't know. So, I didn't solve because I really don't know. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah, I I know that. I know that. We'll come to that little in just a little while.

99:31 >> [laughter] >> Yeah. Uh same always reminds me >> [clears throat] >> When you Stay stay stay with the question. What was it doing to you? Let's stay with the game. Like let's not go anywhere else. What did it do to you the moment you solved the question? We were helping the doer to come to our answer. You see the problem? I didn't want to do. I It fuels the urge to facilitate. Yeah, do you see yourself here?

100:09 >> [laughter] [gasps] >> That's exactly what I'm saying. You did you you see the problem? After solving my question after that I realized you no no one can solve this these questions. >> [sighs] >> Okay. Wait wait wait. When when Shikha came in and said that I I don't remember the first time she said I can't do it.

100:43 What what happened? What did you observe in this group? What happened? >> I got confused. No, you got Wait wait wait wait Shikha, it was not about you at all. It is all about us, the facilitators. So, when Shikha was confused and she said something that I can't do this or something I don't exactly remember the words. We tried pushing her to Fine. You know, you you can do like this. We tried suggesting ways. Why? Where do you want her to reach?

101:17 Where do you want her to reach? We think there's one answer, one particular answer >> [laughter] >> there. What about what she is thinking? Did anybody even find out where she was stuck? She used the word stuck, right Shikha? You used the word stuck. I'm stuck. But did we find out where she is stuck? Yes, we jumped in to solve her. But >> [laughter] >> where is she stuck?

101:49 You see? And then the interestingly the game moved in a totally different >> [laughter] >> direction. Any other observation? I I shared two observations of what happened when when somebody solved it and we also solved it and what happened when somebody was stuck and then where were we? Any other observation?

102:27 Yeah, we thought that we we can't solve it. It is really difficult question. >> [laughter] >> Okay, that is No no no no wait wait wait wait. That is as a doer. Right? Okay. Then when you were the facilitator, Shikha Okay. And you knew it was difficult, then what did you do? I could not help. Oh, does facilitation means helping?

103:01 Who should help whom? Who is stuck in between? Huh, who should help whom? Everybody I'm not just asking Shikha. Anyone can help. Anyone can help help us. We want them to figure it out themselves, obviously. We want them. But our actions don't No no, Shikha is is saying she's very confused. The next she has passed on her number. Now it's in I think she passed to Suhaila.

103:41 But now how now how is Shikha feeling? Your turn is over, gone to Suhaila. Now you are the facilitator. Now what's what's the feeling? I'm relaxed. It's Yeah, yeah, you are relaxed. Now what No, now as a facilitator, what are you doing? Um I'm just observing and seeing how Okay.

104:12 Is there an opportunity for you to learn? Yes. You see if you need a I've learned that we should give time. Yeah, yeah, that's a separate thing, the time part. But Suhaila solved it in in whichever way she solved it, then what? Then then it got passed on to Dhaval, but then where did you learn out of it?

104:42 Or maybe you were still with that this is so difficult, this is out of my scope or whatever. Which is fine. We don't need to know everything, but we can learn so much together with the child. Yeah? If if a if a child if if a child or a group of children want to learn something who will be a better facilitator? Somebody who is very knowledgeable. Let's say children want to do painting, let's say. So, who would be a better facilitator? Somebody who's an expert in painting or somebody who knows nothing about painting?

105:24 Somebody who knows nothing know about painting. Both. Both. Because that person would give that child freedom. Mhm, okay. The freedom of art. So, that child can do better. And that child can create her own creation. So, we have to decide what role we want to play. See, both the roles are inside us, the knower and the not knower.

105:58 Yes. We can decide whether we want to become the knower or whether we want to become the not knower. And which game we want to play and which role we want to play. Not knower. You decide. Yeah. That's what the That's what the whole game was about. It was not about the knower. No I know that many of us know all of this. When we were the facilitator, not as a doer. Doer, whatever everybody did, it does not matter.

106:29 That's not important. What's important is what are we doing? Where are we with with the child? You know? >> [laughter] >> Which is why I brought a mathematics game because there is somewhere supposedly there supposed to be a right answer. But mathematics isn't about the right answer. For that matter, life isn't about the right answer. Think about it. What is interesting is what is going on.

107:01 What is the person thinking? Whatever the person is thinking. What was Suhaila thinking or what was Dhaval thinking towards the end or what was Velavan thinking? Nobody asked Velavan what was he thinking. How did he reach 17? Or even if we ask, maybe we ask couple of questions, but there could be at least 100 more slices on it. Yeah, so what what we are what we are talking about is not very complicated. It's actually very very simple.

107:33 Yeah, but the the choice we need to make. Do we want to be with the answers? Do we want to get this to the child? Do we want this thing to get right? Or the moment something the child is doing, do we see ah Let's explore. There's so much in this to explore. What's the hurry to reach anywhere for that matter? They're like piles and piles and piles of exploration till the child is ready to explore.

107:59 I after some time the child will say enough, I don't want to explore. That's okay. As much as we would also not like to explore beyond a certain time. Yeah, I wish we could play this game for few hours and >> [laughter] >> and and um >> [clears throat] >> you know, we can see where what all is happening. But we actually will do that, but we'll not do it together. We you're doing it at home. You're all the time playing this game.

108:36 Isn't it? With your children at least when you're with your children. You are you are Even if you are not saying anything, you are facilitating in a way. And even if you are saying anything, you are facilitating in a way. If you are doing something, you are facilitating in that way and so on and so forth. So, we can we can little we can actually explore this in any which way we want. Yeah. So, very quickly if you if you allow me on your left hand, if you can write with any pen if you have handy, S P A C E.

109:09 So, I'll give you uh you know, uh a handout today. Uh you will you will say, "Ratnesh, so many sessions and you haven't given a single handout." Okay, so we'll give a handout. We give one more one beforehand. You remember this one? That handout? >> [laughter] >> So, this is the second handout, right? Or maybe the third one. Uh which is in your hands. And S. So, I'll run through this very quickly because this is not rocket science. It's very very simple. For us, the S stands for for silence.

109:43 Yep. And which is why it is at the thumb. Why is it at the thumb? Thumb is what we use the most. Yeah, and this is very simple. And it's very powerful. Yeah? Just that space, just that silence. Just when the child says, "My answer is 18." When we know it is If we have solved it, we will know it is 17. Now, there is all dissonance inside me, you know. I mean, answer to 17 here. How is he saying 18? But if you I haven't solved it, then there will be no dissonance.

110:18 Then I can think, "Ah, you got 18. Ah, tell me more." But before the child reaches 18, I will be with the child. With the child, maybe just silence. A lot of time just this does the biggest trick. Just the silence. Not the silence where I don't know what I want to do, but I want to just let the child do what the child wants to do. Yeah, I'm sure we all use the silence a lot and we can just build that more.

110:48 Yeah? So, that is the S. What Let me run through these. So, that's what the S does stands for. Okay. Um let me move to the to the third finger directly. Not I I'll come back to S P. P I'll come back. What do you think stands for A? Some guesses? Acknowledgement. Okay. >> Acceptance. Atten- attention. Yeah, maybe all of these. You can choose what A stands for you.

111:18 Right now, I'm choosing acceptance. Which is like a fundamental need. In some ways, that was very cute. Um Shikha came up with some answer and everybody accepted it. And since she felt relaxed, maybe she would be more open to exploring what this is happening. Because she was accepted. If everybody would have been onto her, "What, Shikha? You can't understand a simple thing. What, Shikha? This is not the answer. Something else is the answer." Gone. Yeah, we've lost the whole the whole idea.

111:51 So, that's the that's the And we have already talked about the intentions. And when we think about the intentions, it becomes that much more simpler to understand to to to accept somebody. Okay. And let's move to the smallest finger, E. Uh any guesses what does E stands for? Explore. Empathy. Mm. Yeah, empathy. But then what happened? Did anybody check Shikha's feeling? Was she feeling anything?

112:28 She was, I guess so. She said also at least one of her feelings, but I'm sure she was feeling more than one feeling, right, Shikha? And even Dhaval was trying to share some feelings. >> [laughter and gasps] >> Uh though we didn't really kind of carry on with it. We can connect with their feelings. We can just make them aware and that gives them the space to to to manage their own. So, that's the E as part of the space.

113:02 And then we come back to P. P for us stands for P P, if you look at the P finger, which is the index finger, that's the pointing finger, that's the poking finger. If you have to poke somebody, you poke them with this finger. If you have to pull somebody, push somebody, if you have to uh Praise somebody. Praise? No, not really praise. You're talking about provoking them, provoking their thinking. Not settle them with their answer.

113:31 Question them, grill them. "Hey, well, one, how did you got 17? No, I think this is 16. Let's discuss this. No, no, no, this is not like this. Odd number means what? 2 4 6 8? No. Whatever." So, we can we can provoke somebody's thinking. If you want to, obviously. The idea is to to to to stimulate the the other person. Yeah? And one of the best ways to ask lots of questions. If you want to.

114:03 Right? And lots of other things we can do to provoke their thinking. And finally, the the C, which is on the ring finger. Uh C is both for connection, but I want to now take it one step ahead of connection. Right? Yeah, C is the connection finger. You know, that's where we put the ring. Engagement. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry on this page. If you're When you're saying offering experiences, is it you are choosing or curating experience or child is choosing his or her own experience and then You can also bring in You can also bring in offer an experience. For example, I can just bring in some seeds and say, "Hey, now using these seeds, see if you can if these will help you to resolve this particular problem." So, through a resource I'm offering now uh um uh a tangible item through which the child can experience these numbers differently. Okay? So, even I can offer.

114:56 That's okay. That's absolutely fine. Yeah? And there can be many more. I've just written the top three points that came to my mind. Right? The whole idea is to provoke their thinking. Not make things easy for them. And the C is interestingly, now I'm talking about a different connection. Now, that I want the child to connect with the child. Is that different from me connecting with the child? Yes. So, how does the child understand himself?

115:26 How did How can we help Shikha understand what she's understanding? Shikha's saying, "I'm stuck." Maybe she's not that stuck. Maybe she's thinking she's stuck. Maybe if we help her understand what she's thinking, she'll only realize, "Oh, I have thought 80% of it." Or 60% of it. And that's good enough for her. Okay, so that's where we come to clarifying their thinking. "Hey, what are you thinking? Okay, where are you? Oh, you are thinking this way." "Oh, you think this is a whole number. Well, what is a whole number according to Oh, you think this is the whole number. Okay, and then and then this. And what else are you thinking? And how else are you thinking?" Very simple.

116:09 We call them as process questions. We We just now cut so many slices, right? What was I asking? I was asking the process questions. "What did you think? Oh, why why did you think that was a girl?" It's Those are all process questions. I'm just understanding your process. Not my process. I'm anyway not interest- I don't even know the answer. I don't even care about the answer. It's your turn. Right? It's not my turn. I'm [laughter] just the facilitator. And you are there with the with your own things.

116:38 So, so we can get into the clarifying thinking. Yeah? Today Today morning only this this was this one child who was shouting at another child. So, I said, "Uh what what what's going on?" So, he said, "No, she's irritating me." I said, "Ah, okay. So, she has the power to irritate you." This guy's thinking, "No, no, no, no. She can't have the power to irritate me." So, then okay, then what? Then how did she get to get to irritate you? Tell me also how she irritated you. I'll also irritate you.

117:10 So, [laughter] I was both moving between provoking his thinking and also asking what was he thinking. And then how I said, "How was this irritation? Was it like a color? Was it like a feeling? Was it like a what?" So, I was trying to understand his irritation. But I wasn't trying to understand his irritation. What will I do with understanding his irritation? He needs to understand his irritation, isn't it? So, all these questions is not for me to get some gyan about the child.

117:41 But I am probably trying to help the child to understand himself. Probably. I I don't even know if I'm anywhere close to successful. That's not That's not important. Yeah, so we call it Obviously, with each of these letters, you can fill in more words and you can see what works for you. Not that this is like a prescription or a formula. This is just one handout. So, we we are saying the whole idea is can we give a space for the child?

118:18 The silence gives space. The provoking gives a different kind of space, a stimulated space. Acceptance gives a very different emotional space. Uh or rather um at a very more fundamental line. Clarifying gives me a space to my own understanding. And obviously, emotions gives me a space to be with my own feelings. Yeah?

118:50 Okay. Uh So, we are at 10:00. I see the clock and we are pro pro pro pro pro pro pro pro pro I would like I don't know. How are you all placed? We are what 16 of us today. How are you all placed? Would you Would you be game for another 10-15 minutes? Then I would like to do a role play um from a situation. Otherwise, we can close and we will have we will take that as part of the next session. How would you like to do that?

119:27 I know I'm we took a little more time than I than I usually do. I'm ready. Uh let's do it. Let's do it. Okay. Okay. >> Sure. So we'll we'll be we've explored some of the thoughts today about facilities. Obviously, there can be a million more. Uh so I I wanted to play this little Sorry, this little scene from a movie. Uh this movie scene is from Taare Zameen Par. So many of you might have seen that movie, Aamir Khan's Taare Zameen Zameen Par movie.

120:01 But forget the movie. Don't go to the movie and see what Just stay with uh what is happening in this scene. So in this In this scene, there is a family. Imagine you are the aunt or an uncle who is visiting this family and in front of you this scene is happening. Right? So just remember you the the hero is Ishaan or the main protagonist is Ishaan. Ishaan, the boy. So you are an aunt or an uncle to Ishaan.

120:29 And you can be father's sister, brother, or mother's sister, brother. Any relation will chalega. Okay. So see it from that perspective. You are inside the house. See it from that perspective. Yeah. Let's watch. Okay. So let's do a um a kind of a quick role play. Um You can uh you are the aunt or the uncle and you've just seen this scene happening in in the home.

121:06 And now uh you have to You have to decide what you want to do. And you can decide to talk to all of them or any one of them. And the way we'll play the role is if you're choosing to play, let's say talk to the father or the mother or Ishaan, whatever. I'll play that role and you play the role of the aunt or the uncle. Yeah, so please go ahead, unmute, and tell me which first which role you are playing.

121:35 And then you can go ahead and play that role. I'll talk to uh Ishaan's uh fa- father. Sure, go ahead, please. I'm the father. Okay. Yeah. Go ahead. Go ahead. Yeah. You You should have understood Ishaan's point of view also. You should have taken his point of view also. Look look look. Wait wait wait, Shikha. What are you talking about? You think I don't know Ishaan?

122:09 Okay. You don't get into this. I will take I will settle this. I will take care of this. You don't get into it, okay? Chalo, we will have lunch and yeah, let's move ahead. No no no, please wait. I need to talk to you. Uh this is a serious matter and you should have spoken to Ishaan first Shikha wait wait wait, Shikha. Wait wait. Dekho, I will take care of it. I know Ishaan. Wait wait wait. I don't want to listen anything.

122:42 Let's just go and have food and let's move ahead. Whatever about Ishaan, I will take care of it. You don't know anything. Don't get interfere in this matter, okay? Listen, I'm not hungry and also not in hurry to have food. But I just b- mainly I need to talk to you. It is important than the food. You should have you know, spoken to Ishaan first separately. And what exactly happened? You don't know the situation.

123:14 >> You don't tell me how to deal with him. Okay? I'll deal with him. You will you Now you can't. You have already given impression to him. You are a you know, very hard father who does not have a heart. Now you can't do anything about his feeling. I'll take care of whatever I need to take care. I think this conversation better ends here, huh?

123:48 In that case, I'm leaving. I'm no no more interested in having >> why getting into all this, Shikha? Come, we'll have food. Okay, lunch time ho gaya let's have food and then you can There's nothing to leave and all that. Oh, now don't make it Don't put pressure on me like this, okay? Chalo, come. Let's Let's have lunch. >> you. You are pressurizing yourself. >> What is it I'm pressurizing? I'm just telling you I will deal with this. You are just You are not ready to understand him. You are not ready to understand his feeling. Uh him is uh what exactly happened? You are totally out of the out of the situation. What exactly happened? Have you asked? You think I'm out of the situation? What what Who Who has Who has been with him through all of these things? I know all the things, okay? So don't Don't try to teach me how to handle him. Maybe this time Ishaan is right. He He He is not also >> not ready to talk about this. If you want to talk about this, you can go and talk to whosoever. I'm not interested, okay? Bye. We can have We can have lunch right now. I'm ready for that. No, sorry. I'm not ready for lunch.

124:58 >> Okay, no problem. I'm leaving. You sit in your room, I'll sit in my room. Bye. Thank you so much. Okay. Thank you so much. Bye. Anybody else? I'll talk to Ishaan. Sure, go ahead, please. I'm Ishaan. Where did you get the kite kite from? Sorry, uncle. Where did you Where did you get the kite from?

125:31 Where did I get that? Yeah. Uh that We were all playing and that kite this kite got cut, so I got the kite from there. I I ran and and got this kite. You seems to be strong. I mean after even like, you know, having bruises, you were still not crying and that So How did you became so strong? I don't know, uncle.

126:04 So what do you find funny about your father? I think he's funny, too. Like he's his like I don't know, uncle. >> Would you Would you Would you like to play with that boy again? Or fight again? Or did you like fighting? Which boy? With the boy who came Yeah. with his mom? Yeah. No, no. I don't want to play with him. You like fighting? Sorry? Would you like fighting with me?

126:35 No. So what do you I mean what are you interested in? Other than kite? A lot of things. A lot of Like? Like? Like um cricket. Okay.

127:05 Yeah. Like many other things. Okay. You need a player for cricket, let me know. Sure, we can do that in the evening. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, thanks. Okay, anybody else?

127:54 Go ahead. Go ahead. Try. This is just a playground. Whatever you try, there's no right wrong, good, bad. We are just exploring. It is just a situation we are all exploring. So go ahead. Play around. I'll slap Ishaan's dad. Mhm. You're Ishaan's dad. Yeah, yeah. Hey. Yeah, I slapped you. You react.

128:27 Out of you Are you out of your mind, Sindhu? Are you Are you out of your mind? You tell me. Why did you slap the child? See, you don't know anything. And you're simply jumping in. Okay. There is no need for you to jump. You want to slap me, slap me. What difference does it make? Okay.

128:58 But you don't jump into this. I am not jumping into it. I'm I'm just I just saw that >> am not the first I am not the first father who has slapped his child. Right? 90% of the population does that. Okay, don't give me all this. So? 90% kids also make mistakes. So? 100% kids make mistakes. So?

129:31 So everyone is getting slapped? That I don't know. I don't go counting. I am I'm just saying you are so worried about slap? You can slap me how much ever you want to slap me. If that makes you feel happy. But you don't get into what I am You don't get into You don't get into what I am doing or how I am handling things. I will take care of that.

130:02 How are you feeling How How do you How do you felt when I slapped you? I don't want to talk about this. Why not? I I don't know what is your problem. You go now. I will solve my problems. You go and solve your problem. You are simply hitting me, simply questioning me. Go. You talk to Ishaan's mom. You are also simply hitting Ishaan.

130:32 >> I am not talking You talk to Ishaan's mom. If you have a problem, you talk to her. You are the loudest in the room, so I want to talk to you. I have problem with your dad. >> I understand your intention, but your behavior is not appropriate, you know. I I understand you may want to You You may want to discipline Ishaan or you may want You don't want him to get hurt, but I think your approach may not be right.

131:02 You can calmly talk >> approach is wrong only. I'll be told medical. Leave me alone. Hello, why are you like that? What do you mean by why I am like that? Why are you not ready to accept for anything? I am a mom. I'm not interested in all your motion. Go, please. All your speeches. Sorry.

131:34 You go talk to her his mom. I feel we are not talking, why would she talk to me? That you find out with her. That's all. I [laughter] don't know how to go from here.

132:05 I would like to >> Can I try with Ishaan? Yeah. Yes, sir. Sorry. Uh Can I try with Ishaan? Sure. Sure. Sure. Hey Ishaan, you're nervous? No. You're angry? No. How did you fight with him?

132:35 I fight He punched you first or you punched him first? I fight every day with different people. I don't know. You punched him first or he punched you first? I don't remember. And what's there with the kite? Was Was the fight because of the kite? No. What are your plans today evening?

133:08 I wanted to have ice cream. >> [sighs] >> Would you wish to join me? I'll take you for a cup of ice cream. Sure? Only one cup? Maybe? With the permission of your mom? >> [clears throat] >> More? Okay. Sure then done deal. We'll meet today evening for the for ice cream.

133:40 Done deal. Get permission for at least three ice creams. >> [laughter] >> Sure, I will. What's up at school these days? Nothing. Same.

134:13 That's all. That is long. >> [laughter] >> Okay, I think we might have to just pause here. We We We can continue this in some ways. Um So a couple of quick points that I want to make is um Okay, so when when it came to father um if you can see my video already, are we here and the father is here?

134:44 Is that the Is that the Yeah. Yeah, we didn't want to understand the father. Then we have lost it. Yeah. What about his feelings? Is his feelings not important? Your feelings are very angry. You're very angry with him. But what about his feelings? Or And are we holier than thou? You know, just because we think we understand the children better or it's not okay to be violent or whatever whatever. Are we holier than thou? Are we higher than the other?

135:22 No, no, no, no, no. It won't work. You saw it won't work. It will only put the other person on defense. It's not like the father and the child are very different. We are all the same same, no? And that's important. The feelings are important. The connection is important. There's no connection, you can keep on trying. Whatever is your point. Not even ready to listen, right? As a father.

135:57 Because there's no connection. And And if I'm trying to fix the father in a way >> [laughter] >> you know, again, it won't work because nobody wants to be fixed. Neither the child nor the parent nor anybody else nor me nor you. I don't know about you. Maybe not me, definitely. Please don't fix me. >> [laughter] >> Okay. So let's let's In any situation, let's think about hey, where am I coming from?

136:32 I've already you know. Is it my sympathy for the child? So I don't know I don't know I We had Putti Daval speaking to Ishaan, so I'm switching little to Ishaan. But I I I'm I I want to know from you, what were you trying? What What were your What What What did you want from that little conversation that you were trying to have with Ishaan? Both of you. Uh Not really any anything. I mean, just to just to be with him at that time. That's it.

137:09 Mhm. Yeah, but be with him in what way? Be with him in the way he is at that moment. That's it. I mean because because he got slapped from his father obviously acknowledging his feelings that, you know What the No. What did you observe? Did he get slapped by his father?

137:42 No. In that whole scene in that whole scene, there was only one guy who had the temerity, the courage to laugh at that joke. Did you see he laughed? After getting slapped, he has laughed. Where is he? Is he with the anger of the slap or is he with the laughter of the of the father almost hitting his own wife? He's with the laughter. Think about it.

138:13 In that in that one moment, is there something to learn from him first of all? Can we switch like that? From a slap 5 seconds before to a laughter at a humor that is Nobody else is thinking of it as a humor, but he can sense that as a humor. We are trying to be with him or do we want him to be with us? True.

138:47 Why are you wanting to be with him? Does he need you? Is >> Does he need to to to take care of his emotion or he seems to be the most capable person of taking care of his habits of mind all that. He lived through all of them. He fought for his right right in front of after getting slapped and then he laughed at the joke also. Yeah, he's playing so many. I don't know if you write down all the habits of mind that this guy little guy explored in just this little uh whatever time, yeah.

139:27 You sure you want to be with him? Does he even need us to be with him? Yeah, Dhaval, sorry. Dhaval G. >> [laughter] >> You had uh what were your thoughts? I just I was more interested in what all goes in his mind. Like what like I mean not happened about it or what has happened. I mean not about the situation, but other than situation. >> Why not the situation? Why are we skirting Why are we beating around the bush? Are you Mazak Yaro? He's Is he capable of handling the situation? Yes or no?

140:00 >> Yeah. Then go in with him. What is the big deal? Are you Yar Mazak Yaro man? You are the star of the scene. Kya baat hai? Sikha de Yar. Teach me also. How can you laugh also, fight also, receive a slap also, receive your mother's sympathy also all in one shot man? Tell me what do you think is What are you made up of? Man, salute. I mean if you are if you are impressed in that sense or whatever astonished or or in wow of him, then there's so much to explore from him. Yes, yes, yes.

140:40 There's so much I'm totally with you that there's so much to explore. But we know there's no need of beating around the bush. Let's get on with it. But not from the perspective that I don't need to be the uncle, you know, who is like the you know, who will who will calm him down. No, not to calm. I think there's nothing to calm. He was already Absolutely. He was the calmest person in the whole world.

141:06 Exactly. Jump in. Mazak Let's listen. Let's learn from him. Let's get the vibes from him. What was he Yes, yes, yes. Absolutely. That's what if you are if we are operating out of let's say our pity or I'm not talking about the worst case. I'm in general talking about. Then we are still with our frames. Then we are still with our thoughts. Again, nothing wrong with them.

141:36 But that's only a small part of the story. Have we seen the other part of the stories and have we connecting with them or starting with them? Does Does Ishan need our help? Or maybe Ishan is fully capable of solving it. How will it be if I go to Ishan and say, "Man, I'm sure you will solve this.

142:07 I mean you are the one you are the king in the or the hero in the whole story. You can you can easily solve this. Or you can not necessarily easily, but you can you can solve this. You have all the capabilities to take care of your mom and dad." In any case, I can also if I want to say openly that I can I'm there to support you or to be with you if you need to connect with me. If you want to explicitly say that there's nothing wrong or right about that.

142:41 Can we see children as capable? Sorry, somebody has raised hand. Yeah, please. I don't know. Somebody raised a hand or something. Which Zoom is reminding me. Somebody raised a hand. Somebody raised a hand. Okay, anyway. Somebody any So I I think let's let's let's not think about this. Let's just see that we are Yes, so so when a situation is happening, we are looking at it from one window, one way of looking or one or not one, a few of our windows, which is absolutely fine. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that.

143:23 But would we like to consider more? And perhaps start from the very fundamental one. Is the child capable? Here to the child is showing, but even in situation the child is not showing. Is the child capable? Or wouldn't we like the child to be capable ca- capable? Is this bad news or is this good news?

143:59 Okay. I think we can pause here. No need of any story. Full drama happening right here. Right. Uh today I can't even so say to you sleep well. >> [laughter] >> Let's see what happens to your sleep as it goes. Yeah. But let's think about it. Let's purposefully I brought such a full masala scene. But not a very different scene. It happens anywhere and everywhere. Yeah. Right.

144:32 Yeah. So >> [clears throat] >> Yeah, let's pause here. Think. Explore. Just one one small thing. It's it isn't about our thing whether you call yourself a parent or a teacher or a facilitator or a friend. These are just words. Finally, there is no It's not one-dimensional. I'm sure we are like operating out of 100 different ways, methods, roles, perspectives. Um Let's let's explore those.

145:05 Let's explore all the layers and all the joys and all the ups and downs. We don't need the right answer. There's so much to explore. Thank you. Good night. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Good night. Thank you. Thank you, Ratnesh.