The Surprising Way the Trades Can Launch You Beyond the Line | Alex Wakeland | 184

0:00 All right, Alex, give me your working athlete story. >> All right, so I love this stuff. So, like I had pretty much an energy drink addiction and we're working like 100 hours a week up in Michigan. It's over 90 degrees every day. Corn sweats, 100% humidity, and like they had the the brand we won't name because I don't want to like talk down on a brand, but the >> the very popular >> Yeah. the very popular brand that everybody has industry >> and our our general foreman was like, "What can we do to keep the guys hydrated because it's going to be a huge concern?" And I was like, "Oh, yeah.

0:57 Ryan talked about working athlete and I sent that to my GF and he's like oh done. He went out and bought like $1,000 of it and company was a little upset about it and he's like fine just just take it off the job. He's like this is a safety product for this job. If it costs us money I will pay that money. And like it really did stop people from cramping. we gave some to our our supervisor for the utility we were working for. I never know if I can name names or not, but >> yeah, >> he was like, he drank one and he's like, I slept better. I feel better. What is this? How do I get some? And we're like, oh yeah, here, take a bag. And like it's just like everybody wants it now. And that's what you want. And the funny thing is is like the guys are like sneaking it home, you know, and I'm like, "Oh no, you're going to be hydrated before your shift. I'm so upset." But like you pretend like they're not supposed to, so they feel like they're getting away with something. It's like that old story about potatoes where the king pretended they were they were valuable and really it's just they're famine resistant. So it's like they're they're stealing the hydration packets. I'm like, "Oh no, you're hydrated."

2:06 >> I know, right? >> So it's like the perfect thing for them to be taking and they feel like they're getting away with something and really the company's benefiting the whole time. So it's just that's my working athlete story of why I was excited when I got here and I saw it because I was like I'm thirsty. That's what I want. I was on a big transmission project in South Texas 2014. And we had this one old boy on the crew.

2:29 this nickname was Cookie. And we get to the morning meeting where they're like just the morning safety meeting. There's like 30 guys standing around, you know, whatever listening the morning safety brief. And Cookie cracks open the tall boy monster. Like just the black and green. >> Oh yeah. Raw dog classic green monster and and you know that smell just >> Oh yeah. >> Cookie I I look over Cookie, what are you doing? Like it's like 6:35.

3:01 He's like I need something to wash down the pot of coffee. >> Yeah, I know. >> Like bro, you're going to have a jammer like soon. >> Oh yeah. >> Left that job two weeks after that. Two weeks after that, Cookie had a heart attack. >> Damn. >> He's still with us. But yeah, >> I've had a couple guys one guy was like addicted to Rockstar and he's >> everyone his rockar >> I can't even remember his real name, but everyone calls him dirt cuz he like chews snuff looks like he has dirt in his teeth. But great lineman, super hardworking guy, but he drank Rockstar like it was going out of style. And like about four years later, I met back up with him and I was like, "Hey Turk, what's going on?" You know, and he was drinking water and I was like, "What's what happened to the Rockstar?"

3:41 He's like, "Yeah, I can't even touch an energy drink anymore. My heart can't take it." I'm like, "Oh, damn." Like, if they got you, they're definitely going to get me. Cuz he was just he lived on that stuff. >> It's real, man. I don't know. >> I don't think I've ever met a harder working guy than him, though. Like, I understand why he was on energy drinks cuz like he was go go and like one of the most productive just when it came to line work, he was a genius because like he he started I think he started down in Ohio when he was like 16. never did anything else. I think he went to the Navy and he was like a Navy lineman and then came back.

4:15 So, it's like >> Navy line. >> Yeah. He like he had stories about like bunny hopping down poles and running up to brush dust off the poles like volcanic dust so that the pole didn't break. I'm like this this is insane. So like everything's boring to you, isn't it? He's like oh yeah I've done it all. And he's >> that's wild. >> Yeah, he was great great lineman. See, I put up this post a couple weeks ago about how it said something like human performance coach says linemen push their bodies harder than athletes or something like that, right?

4:50 >> I get a bunch of comments like just the lineman in the comments like or actually got more from like iron workers and people like, "Oh, I should try iron working like it's a pain competition." >> Yeah, exactly. Right. It's >> like how about we all are in pain, buddy. But this was the whole point was that yeah, like we do it's I'm not saying we are athletes. I'm saying we push our bodies harder than athletes, right?

5:18 >> So you should probably pay attention to it. Like that was the point. I don't care if you're a line insert trade. I I don't care. You're all the same. >> And athletes, they're measuring their performance, so they're like, "Oh, I do better when I sleep better." >> Linemen aren't measuring their performance. They're just going out there and performing. So, they're like, "Yeah, I didn't sleep last night. I still got the job done. I didn't I drank all night last night. I still got the job done." And it's like, "Yeah, you're you're going to be a wreck in like 5 years, man. Like, you need to chill out.

5:46 Go take a nap." That was the recent job I was on. They nicknamed me daddy because I was the guy that would take everybody out. I would drink lemonade. Everybody else was drinking beer. And they'd get to like their fourth or fifth beer. And I'd go over to the bartender. I'm like, "No more." And they're like, "Oh, they're fine." I'm like, "It's not about now. It's about tomorrow. Like everybody's now drinking lemonade and everyone's like, "Oh, come on, Dad. What are you doing?" And I'm like, "I'm making sure you guys can like do the job tomorrow.

6:13 >> I'm looking after you 16 hours from now." >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Yeah. It's crazy. I in a way like I understand the culture and I see like how it developed. But >> actually, what is your like what is your view? Are is the younger generation in line work kind of following the similar suit as the younger generation just like from what I see on social media even like right >> you know they're turning raves into coffee raves you know like that sort of like culture is that in our >> much healthier than it used to be. So like when I first got in it was you're going to the bar. You didn't have a choice. You're the apprentice. You're going to the bar. You're buying the first round and if your lineman gets drunk you're taking him home.

6:59 >> Yeah. that was your responsibility >> and you're waking him up in the morning. >> And you're waking him up. You're making sure he gets there. And nowadays, the younger guys are like, "No, I'm going home. I have to study or I have these hobbies or I have this going on. I I want to go to the gym." Like, most of my apprentices got up at 4:00 and went to the gym. That like 10 years ago, that was unheard of. Nobody did that.

7:20 >> And so, the older generation is looking at the younger generation like they're soft. And I'm like, they they learned all your you taught them all the lessons. So, like they they learned the easy way because they looked at you and you told them, "Don't do this." And now you're upset because they're not doing it. I'm like, "This is a success story, bud." Like, these guys, they're being smart with their bodies. They're not just trashing them. They know they have to work. I mean, some of us like like if you look at the metrics, we won't retire until we're like 70. You can you imagine doing line work when you're 70 if you burned your body out in your 20s? So, it's like the new generation I I have a lot of hope when I when I see them out there working because they're so much healthier about it. There's so there's so much more knowledge and awareness of drinking heavily affects you long term.

8:12 So, let's not do that. Smoking. I mean, I don't know a single person under 30 that still smoke. Well, that's not true. I know a couple, but they don't smoke heavy. They like smoke occasionally. >> Vapes are still huge. >> Yeah. But with the all vapes have lead, a lot of people are trying to get away from those now so they don't develop the lead stare, >> but just so much healthier than what they used to be.

8:38 >> The excuse before was always they knew that one guy like my uncle, you know, drunk smoke till you know that story. >> Yep. There's always an anecdotal story, but now >> Yeah. But >> with social media, it's like everybody has an aunt that had cancer, a mom who had a scare, or a brother who had something go wrong, and they're like, or they know somebody who was an alcoholic. I've worked with so many alcoholics, and they're all, not all of them, but most of them are the older generation, like they could get DUIs and get their license and keep working. Now, if you get a DUI, you're you're toast. You're not getting your license back. You're not getting into Canada. like that limits yourself and your economic viability a lot.

9:20 >> Oh, totally. >> It's insane. >> Totally. >> Yeah. I think it's I think it's pretty cool. Even having a lot of guys like my age since I started like my health journey or whatever and just started like posting about it. And this is that's what's so cool about social media too and just like having a consistent presence on social or in podcast land or whatever. like you can see the progression of somebody that's like trying to actually do things and it's like for every one person that reaches out and says something like, "Hey, good job. You motivated me or whatever.

9:54 >> You helped me get my ass in gear." I know that there's like five or 10 behind them that didn't say anything, but also made inspired, right? which is so cool because like I've been able to see some of my and it's like my closer friends from the trade >> completely give up drinking like start losing weight like lost 30 lb 40 lbs and like completely turned their life around mentally physically everything >> and it's just like hell yeah like that's nobody freaking >> nobody wants to be first they'll all compete to be second yeah >> so like you going first and being brave enough to tell everybody like hey this is what I'm doing for my health everybody else is Yeah, >> I'm gonna do that, too.

10:36 >> Like they'd quietly follow you and then next thing you know, it's a normal thing. Everybody's talking about it. Same thing with like mental health. Nobody wanted to talk about mental health when I got in. Yeah. >> It was nut up or shut up. Like, if you can't hack it here, go home. There's another there's 10 guys in the parking lot waiting for your spot. And it was like, >> and that's a terrible attitude to have.

10:55 And now it's like a guy comes into work, he's like, my wife has postpartum depression. What do I do? And they're asking us. And it's like, "Oh yeah, I've had a bunch of kids. I know what that's like. Here's how you can help support her." And then a guy comes in. He's like, "Man, I just really miss my family. I got this going on at the house. I got this going on." I'm like, "Go home. Like, you don't need to be here. You have plenty of money. I'm not going to give your job away.

11:17 >> Yeah. >> Go be with your family. >> Or there's jobs at the house. Go be at the house and be with your family." And like when I, like I said, when I was coming in, it was like that wasn't an option. Like, "Oh, you had a kid. Hurry back." >> Yeah. It was like I took three days off with most of my kids and it was like my wife had a C-section, no help. And I was just like, I have to make money. I can't be here. I hope you're okay. And it was like, that's a terrible way to be. Yeah.

11:44 Now, guys, >> we had two guys that had babies on this job I was on. Both of them took a month off and we were like, >> we'll hold your job. If you want your job back, it's yours. >> Yeah. one went closer to the house and then the other one came back and he got upgraded to foreman and he was a rock star on the job and the only reason he wanted that job is because it was close to his wife and kids and it was like >> perfect.

12:06 I I think that that's huge and it's just yeah before back in the day I think the biggest worry was that you were going to lose your job right as soon as you like some more in two days it's like oh we'll just replace you with somebody else and then you're off and that was huge income for you because it was a big transmission job or something like that right you're like peace >> or like early 2008 when there wasn't jobs like you were just like I'm thankful to have any job 40 30 hours whatever just please feed me >> yeah yeah >> there's no safety net, especially in the in the contracting world. There's no safety net. You can be the GF one day and laid off the next and just on book two trying to find a job.

12:46 >> And being mid40s now, like back to the health thing again is like >> when you're in your 20s, you're just you're bulletproof and you just are. It's a fact. You can do whatever you want. And >> it doesn't catch up with you until you're 30. >> And then by the time you're 30, you can still get away with it for a while, >> another five, eight years, whatever. You can ignore it until it becomes a problem or you can start course correcting.

13:10 >> But you're in your 40s now and guys that were doing that are dropping. Like they're literally >> literally dying. >> Like straight up >> they take their own life or it's like it's something to do with the bad habits that they were they wereing that gets them. >> It's like I think you're five times more likely to die from suicide than from the job. >> Yeah. and we kill alignment a week, which means five of them are dying by suicide a week. That's huge. That's crazy.

13:41 >> Yeah. >> That's the type of numbers where like the whole industry should be like, "Oh, we need to like solve this. This is bad." Not just not just because they're people. Like, okay, I safety is number one. Everybody wants people to be safe. Everyone wants them to be healthy. Nobody wants people to die. I get that. But if you're this like Scrooge, I only care about money. It's like that's a lot of knowledge and talent leaving the industry permanently. You can't learn from a dead person. You can't you can't get a lesson learned and be like, "Oh yeah, if he would have just done this."

14:12 Like, you're getting the story after the fact anyway. So, like, you're piecing it together. We need to protect those people for the good of the industry as a whole. >> Yeah. I got into it on a guy with a guy on LinkedIn the other day about I put up some post about how line work, you know, provides pride was it was this sense of pride, some passion and something else. Anyway, he's just like and pays well. And they got all on me about like what was it? It was about how you shouldn't chase money and you shouldn't just chase a dollar if you're working in the trade. And I'm like, you're totally missing >> it. It was pride, passion, and pays well. That's what it was.

15:01 >> Straight over his head. >> And then he gets into he gets into it about how, you know, like like you just said, well, you're five times more likely to, you know, die from taking your own life in this trade than I'm like, wow, you are like completely missing the mark here. And so I answered him back with like, I used to work major storms. Just gave him one example. I used to work major storms and those major storms provided, you know, a sense of pride and passion for the job and the industry.

15:30 >> And you know what? It also paid well. And >> I probably wouldn't have gone >> with either of those missing. Like if it if I >> those are the key ingredients. >> If I wasn't passionate about it, I probably wouldn't have done it. If it didn't provide a sense of pride for what I was doing, I probably wouldn't have gone. And guess what? if it didn't pay well, I probably also wouldn't have gone. Like that was the point, right?

15:50 Like, >> and again, like I've I've helped I've seen I've helped people like I I share one example all the time of of Noah. Like Noah is an Air Force veteran, you know, two tours in Afghanistan. Reached out couple years after he had got back. He was just in a bad place. He had listened to the found and listened to the podcast. knew nothing about this trade. He's he had a bread route at his bought his uncle's bread route driving around >> delivering bread eight hours a day. He's like Ryan like it wasn't a good spot for a veteran with extreme PTSD and other issues and there's no purpose, no no pride.

16:30 >> Like he was going to end his life. >> Yep. and he decided to pursue line work because he had heard how passionately I was talking about this trade with a sense of pride and purpose and >> and it pays well and guess what he's alignment now he's going to be an engineer he's got four kids a wife and guess what he's got purpose pride passion >> and a good paying job >> like again bro like you're missing the point like what do we just not do line work like for any of those Like what do you >> Well, that's why the South has trouble getting guys to come down for Storm because it doesn't pay as well.

17:10 >> If it paid better, more people would show up. But I can make more money working a 60 60 hour transmission job in the north than I can working 16 hours in southern Texas. So, it's like I have there's no motivation for me to I want to come on Storm, but the pay is missing, so I don't. And like that is a real problem because they need people to come and show up. And it's like, like you said, if you don't have those four things, you're not getting the people that will actually do the job you want.

17:39 And that's the key. And like you said, the I've had so many veterans reach out to me that are like I they're working a factory. And nothing against those jobs. Those jobs are good for a certain type of people, >> but there's there's another type of person, and that's the type of person that builds power lines. They're usually hard-headed. They have an ego. They have like a can do attitude. I will not be stopped. I will decide. Those type of people build power lines and those are the type of people we need. So it's like they're searching for a purpose. This gives it to them. And I I actually started a a Facebook group just to help people get into the trade or switch over from non-union to union just because I didn't see anybody else doing that or like sticking their hand out. And I just kind of did it as a whim. I was like, I'm going to start this group and you know, >> what's the group called?

18:30 >> it's like union switchover help. And it's like it was just I said it on a whim because I was getting the same questions over and over again and I was like I'll just post all the answers here. >> And next thing I know it's got over a thousand members and it's only been up for like three weeks. >> Good. >> And I've got union organizers in there, a couple BAS in there and they're answering questions and it's, you know, union guys being like, "This is really what's going on. This isn't propaganda. I'm not going to sell you a line of This is like this is my real lived experience. And like I get questions on there all the time like what is what is the actual package you get? And it's like oh >> we get a retirement, we get health care, we get writer refusal, which is I guess a huge thing that they don't get. So like if they go on storm a lot of their companies are like you're going on storm or you're fired. And here it's like they don't they never force us to do those things. And that's something that is completely foreign to them. But nobody is telling them this is how you sign the books. These are the common things we talk about because I I grew up in Illinois. I've been union since I could work. Yeah. My dad was union. My grandpa was union. My great-grpa was union. So like that's all I know. So to me, these things are second nature. But to somebody from >> southern Arkansas, they're completely lost. And I'm like, "Oh yeah, he here's the terms we're using. This is what this means. This is what this means. This is how you travel. This is what you need to travel." And it's just like I didn't understand that nobody was doing that until I just said, "Well, I'll do it."

19:59 And now it's like, man, this is almost a full-time job. >> I got a great actually I was thinking about you the other day with so regards to social media. I got a good Tik Tok series idea for you. I can't really do it because you know this whatever, >> but I think if it was done right, it it would work out really well. It's like, you know how like when somebody makes those Tik Toks like this how much money you could make here, whatever.

20:22 pick said region in the United States and go this is what a lineman makes here and break it down. >> Yeah. >> You know like this is what you could make here whether you're on transmission and just like break it down in the TikTok but then like you break >> show the contract. >> Show the contract. Show like this is what you make union non-union like even if you get it slightly wrong. >> Yeah. Somebody will correct me in the comments.

20:41 >> Somebody corrects you in the comments and it increases engagement. And I really think that those would blow up like cuz it's like >> doing apples to apples like actually doing a comparison >> and since it's a series like keep it that series name so that >> it's easy to find. >> It's easy to find right and it almost becomes a reference and then you can like you could even post those other places later like your Facebook chat or whatever.

21:05 >> Yeah. And that's just to help people understand, you know, like what you can make in certain spots and how it is different like union, non-union, like whatever. Just like south, north, like >> I think it would even give a good picture as to like where >> I could even bring non-union guys that work that region and be like, "Here, you tell me what you did. I'll tell you why." >> Because you're so connected. Yeah. Like literally the guy on the job like, "Look, you just came from the south.

21:30 Like >> what were you getting paid in the South?" >> Yep. >> You know, and just lay it out, you know? >> Yeah. And it's like it's it's funny because like those type of ideas I'm like surely somebody's done that. Surely that's happened somewhere. And then you look for it and it's like oh no they haven't. >> Nobody's doing it here. >> And that's that's why I made that Facebook group because I was like surely somebody else has done this. And I went and looked for it and then I started asking them. I'm like isn't there like like usually it was somebody who just switched over to the union and they're like >> I switched to the union I'm going to go back because I don't know how to find a job. I'm like what do you mean? You just go sign the books. I don't know how to do that. Like the hall didn't tell you how to do that. No, nobody has nobody has helped me at all. I'm And they're they don't have a network like I do of other union linemen, which is how I figured out how to sign the books because it's slightly different everywhere you go.

22:18 >> See, that's another good one, too. This like this could be your hook. Like this is how you sign the books in California, right? This is how you sign the books. >> And you just explain a little bit about because California's book system's different than Idaho's book system, you Or you go to Jersey where they have like a day hall and like first time I was out there I was like what the hell's a day hall? And they're like oh you got to sign every day. I'm like whose idea was this? This is a terrible idea. But it's that's their system. It works for them because it's such a like a high value area to get into that they're like we need to clear the books every day. So like we're not keeping a record of you for tomorrow. You better be back here tomorrow if you want a job. And it's like oh okay that's why that is like that.

22:56 >> Wild. >> Yeah. It's crazy. >> Dave I hadn't heard of that actually. It's super different everywhere you go and it's like >> nobody knows that. I didn't like I've been in this for 25 years. I had no clue. >> I I figured it out like this year. >> That's super cool. >> Yeah. >> It's just And like I said, you would think that like, oh, your your halls a day book, like make a couple videos about this is what our Hall of Day book looks like, but no, it's everybody in those positions is like 45, 50, 60 years old and they're like, "Call me on the phone." I'm like, "I I don't even own a house phone." Like what do you mean call? Like I'm not doing that. I'm looking it up online. You don't have it online then it doesn't exist.

23:34 >> See even that like gets my my ideas going like okay let me go find like a random landline phone that just to like make exaggerate it a little bit. You find an old phone and start dialing the hall. Hello. Is this the hall? >> Is this how I have to do this now? Are you for real? Do you know that there's Jad GBT? And it's like we we as the IBW, we built the internet. Like we laid the cables.

23:59 >> Yeah. >> Why are we not you? We made the telephone. We made the cables. We we've done all of that. Why are we not using it? What is going on? Like >> you should be at the cutting edge because you know what the cutting edge before it exists because you're building it. Like 5G. Oh yeah, that's us. We're building the 5G towers. It's like, okay, you know what's coming? Yeah, we know what's coming. Did you do anything? Nah, we'll just wait.

24:18 >> What? >> Yeah. >> Mind-numbing. What are some of the biggest challenges you've seen in the trade in the past year? >> in the past year, the knowledge gap, it's getting bigger and bigger and bigger because all the the older guys, >> the experienced knowledge, >> the experience knowledge gap because the older guys, >> they have their pick of the jobs now. If you have 15 to 20 years in the trade, you're a commodity. They >> should get back in.

24:43 >> Oh, yeah. They will bend over backwards. They'll give you a truck. They'll pay you over scale. They'll do whatever they got to to keep you. And all of those guys are like, I'm gonna go work at home. I'm not going on the road and you're gonna pay me extra to work at home. So now all of that knowledge is going home to I don't want to say the easy jobs, but their preferred jobs. And they've earned it. Like they want to be home with their grandkids. They want to be home with their wife. They don't want to chase storm anymore.

25:09 >> Grandkids now. >> Yeah. They don't they've they've done they've they've lowered their bills. They've built their exit strategy. They're basically just working for health insurance and life insurance and maybe to help put a kid through college or something like that. But that that experience gap is getting glaring on the hard jobs because I've I've pretty much built my career on the hard jobs where it's usually journeyman only. It's hard money jobs because nobody else wants to go to those. So it's super easy to get off book two onto those jobs because they're hard. You work hard. The day goes by fast. The puzzles are cool and fun to fun to do. So that's where I like to be. And it used to be I'd show up and there'd be, you know, a couple crews of 45 year olds, a couple young young gun crews, and the young gun crews were the speed crews. And when we ran into a problem, the 45-year-old crew would come over and be like, "Do this, this, this, and this." Like we were we were his hands. He was our knowledge. And that's how we built those crews. and and they would get like the easier manual labor type jobs where it's like they're not hand digging the holes. We're hand digging the holes, but he's telling us the hole needs to go here because of all these different variables or this is how we do this wire setup because of all these variables. And those guys are like disappearing from the trade. the job I was just on, we were building through the wetlands and when I showed up, I think the next oldest person was 25 and I was, you know, 37 and I had more experience than the whole rest of the job combined. And I'm like, this is a problem. Like, I'm not the guy. Why am I the guy? And so I called a couple buddies and luckily Greg Ivy, which is he's like a wire guru. He knows how to set up wire better than anybody else I've ever met. he shows up and it was like for him it was like like it was no there was no hesitation. There was no question. It was just like oh yeah this is what we do. We do this this this and then we're good. Oh you need a butt block here because we can't be far enough away or we got to we got to pull at a 180 90 and we're doing big transmission stuff. And I'm like man I'm glad you showed up because I was stumped. Like there were so many restrictions. He's like yeah we do this all the time. I'm like, "Who's we?"

27:22 Like, "Call them up. We need them, too. >> We need >> Yeah, we need the Wii." >> And he's like, >> these guys that would just like walk out and point like, "This is where our wire is going to end up." >> And then he he'd outwork everybody, too. And so, you'd be like, we told the apprentices, I was like, "If he's working harder than you, you up." >> So, like, do not let this old man work harder than you.

27:42 >> And nobody could outwork him because he just he knew so many of the next steps. He'd start doing something. the apprentice would come up and basically wrestle it out of his hands, >> start doing it, and he'd just start doing something else. Then the next guy would take it from him, then he'd start doing something else, and the next guy would jump in, and pretty soon it's like everything just magicked itself together. And we're like, man, that was easy. How why is this easy? And you always get the comments like, "Anybody can do transmission work." It's like, yeah, as long as somebody's done it before. Because it's >> you get the DRO hands that they're very confident in Dro and they're like, "Dro is the complicated thing. It's this, this, and this. And you get the transmission guys are like, you don't understand how complicated this is. And I like to think of myself as a generalist because I I try to split my career evenly between the two, but I'm not the specialist at any of them. I can muddle my way through it. It might not be the most efficient way. It'll be as safe as I can possibly make it, but like when it comes to really hairy distribution poles, I want a guy who's done this before. really hairy transmission like we were just on. Now I'm pretty confident with it. But when I first showed up, I was like, I don't know how to set up these ratios. I don't know how to stop this wire from bird caging. I don't know how to fix this.

28:55 And no, I I couldn't turn to anybody on the job. They were all topped out within two years. And they all came through the apprenticeship together. And they they were real good hands. They were real smart, but they were like, "We've done nothing but DRO, so we're out here because we want to learn this." which bravo to them for chasing an education. That's like one of the best things you can do in this trade, but they were chasing an education with nobody there to give it to them. So now that that vacuum needs filled and it's it's so hard to get those old guys to come to these hard jobs.

29:27 >> What's the solve? How do you solve that problem? How do you fill the vacuum? >> I don't know. I'm I'm trying to start meeting the younger crowd where they're at, which is usually on TikTok. So, like I went up and we were deadending wire and I was like I'm one guy trying to teach three crews how to deadend wire and when I got there I was like how are you guys doing this before? They're like oh we just looked up Tik Toks saw a couple guys from China doing this and just copied them and I was like okay so we'll make Tik Toks of deadending wire. So that's what we did.

30:00 So I made these short little videos of me going up and explaining it. And social media has evolved so much. Before that would have been like absolute no. Everybody's getting fired for that. And now it's like, oh, this is this is how we teach people. So, I'm up there and I'm this is how I do it and this is what I do to keep this and keep that. And then I posted on TikTok. I gave it to all my crews. I gave the unedited version to my crews because it's like, hey, don't post this.

30:25 >> Yeah. >> And here's all the stuff that we're doing. And then I went back through and double checked. All right. Everything's grounded. Everything they're like all the rules that I could find were >> kept. >> Yeah. Perfect. And then I posted that one. And that sparked a lot of stuff in the comments where like some older linemen that had experience were like, "Oh, if you do this, it'll save you some time. If you do this, it'll work better.

30:45 If if you do that, that'll be good." And then you had the other ones that were like, "This is the dumbest thing ever. Nobody's going to do this. This is this is too complicated. Just do it like this." And then it's like kind of peel back the layers a little bit and they're like, "Oh yeah, I've only worked with forot." Like, "Oh yeah, this is bulbal link wire." And it's like you're used to ACSR where you can like beat the hell out of it and it's not going to be mushroomed out. And this is, you know, ASSR, so it's like you look at this thing crossey and now it's messed up and you got to cut it out and start over. So like you can peel back the layers and figure out what people know in the comments. And usually they delete those comments after they figure out they were talking out of turn. But it sparks these really good conversations and it it gets that knowledge out to where the people are looking for it. And that's that's the most important part. You have to put the knowledge where they're going to find it. It's like they're Easter egg hunting. You got to make it easy on them.

31:37 >> How much have you used like chat to take photos of what you're doing and ask for its instructions and how accurate or not accurate is it? So currently I use I prefer notebook LM because you can cut off the sources but I do use chat for like how to word things to put in there. So I've taken the the rule books and utility specific things and I put it in notebook LM so that it doesn't search the whole web for it. It just searches the sources I have. But I've used chatgpt to be like is this echo potentially grounded just to see if it would figure it out. And I'd say it's accurate about 60% of the time. And sometimes it will give you suggestions to fix it that is there. It just couldn't see it for whatever reason. It works best with like the bright yellow grounds. That's where it works best because we had some brown ones and some black ones and it like didn't recognize that that was not part of the system. But it was it was kind of cool doing that. And then I would take what Chad GPT said and I would drop it into the notebook LM side and be like, am I violating any rules with this setup and it would scan the utilities, my companies, the IBWS, and then the new OSHA standards that come out. Like I just have the website in there so I can scan it and it would tell me if I'm violating any of those books because it's like I'm not going to memorize those and I don't have to anymore. I I can use this tool.

33:08 >> Yeah. Yeah. That's the this crossover point right now. >> It's like even you saying 60% like 60% is freaking massive. >> Oh yeah. And it gives you an argument. If somebody questions it, you can ask Chad, how can I argue that this is the safe way? Because I've had to do that several times. >> Do you see a lot of people using AI still or or not yet? >> I'd say the younger crowd uses it, but not workrelated. See, this is what like I just find this fascinating and there's like such an opportunity.

33:42 >> Oh, yeah. >> For people to like start using it every >> day. >> I've started like and I know you've been you use this since day one because you're a techie guy, but this is what like advice for the rest of the industry out there. >> You get that crowd that's like I don't want to like I don't want to deal with this, right? That older generation like I don't want to talk to this like you know it's it's they're going to know who I am. and they're going to take my cash under my mattress, blah blah blah.

34:08 >> So, you get past all that and you just like, okay, let's just start chatting. I started talking to chat every morning on my walk >> for like a half an hour, 20 minutes, half an hour. Let's talk to it. Like, just like tell my story, fill it in, and I just think there's like a massive opportunity to use it more, >> especially for that younger. And maybe that this is a way >> to start like closing that knowledge gap.

34:33 I'd actually love to see some form and I know a lot of guys have just like lose their minds at this. I'd love to see it used more like in the bucket like say >> you know like an autonomous car like the bucket has cameras and and set up and you have an earpiece maybe >> and I know right away guys are like well that's that'll explode. >> Whoa. I don't want people watching what I do that blah blah. They're going to catch me doing this and that. Yes, >> it's coming anyway.

35:02 >> It's coming anyway. But like if you think past like maybe you don't have to take shortcuts now, >> you can just do it by the rules. >> It could have proximity sensor. >> This thing can coach you. >> Yeah. Proximity sensors. It can coach you on like what you're looking at, help you like work out transformer equations, like connection equations, like prompt you if you're about to remove something you shouldn't. >> We use it for banks quite a bit. Like how many times have you lifted a Mac that wasn't supposed to be lifted and you got away with it, but maybe you could have had a coach, you know, hey, that's not warning or whatever.

35:38 >> And the more connected you make it, the better it would work. So, if it's connected to the power company's switching routine, it'll stop you from screwing up your switching routine. That's not the right switch. It's the wrong number >> there. >> That's not the right order. Stop. Like, it could it could interrupt that process >> 100%. Because like how many how many mistakes have been made still from human error like not on necessarily the lineman's part but on the switching >> Yeah.

36:04 >> you know the switching guy's part because the switching guy had steps wrong or the guy >> there was a there was an incident in Arizona where they did the switching order out of routine and Arizona took the power out to California. Arizona's utility doesn't talk to California. California had no idea why their power just went out and they just switched it back. Oh, oops. Put that back. Okay. and then then finish their switching routine. Meanwhile, California's losing its mind. They're patrolling the whole system like what is going on? And then like a couple hours later, they're like the utility down in Arizona.

36:35 >> My bad. >> It's like, holy cow. >> Or control center energizes guys. I've had >> Oh, yeah. >> My buddy was they decided to take lunch. They're sitting on the tailgate and they look up and the grounds are just doing this in the air. They're like, "What the was that?" People just energized 60 KV. >> I was I was climbing a 34 KV line and they energized it on us while we were taking the grounds off. It was like they were going to energize after we took our grounds off and we were in a dead spot.

37:08 They couldn't call us and we're climbing to go take it off and I'm up there trying to take the grounds off and it jerks and hits me in the leg and I thought it was the guy below me. I'm like, "Hey what are you doing?" And he's like, "That wasn't me." And I was like, "Oh shit." >> Yeah. we need to go get self-service so we can call about this. So that's we climbed down and went out there and they're like we thought you were already done. I'm like no we haven't called in and all clear yet and they're like well it's been an hour. I'm like we had to go we had to go from sell service to non-ell service to climb up there to take them off then to come back to tell you that we're clear and it was it's just like a huge mess. And something like chat GPT would stop that human error because they're like you haven't gotten the all clear yet. it's been an hour I don't care until you get the all clear. We're not energizing. And in fact, now that it's been an hour, why don't you send somebody to go check if you think it's taking too long? Like maybe they're in a maybe they're in a bind, maybe they're stuck.

37:57 >> Yeah. >> And it it's just like the the fall arrest system. When I first got out in the trade, that wasn't required. You could you could just wear a regular belt or you could wear the buck squeeze or the Jelco, whatever whatever style you wanted. I was like, "This is what we're going to be using. I'm going to climb with this all the time." And I got made fun of. you don't need that. Oh, you're just you're just going up. Just wait till you get past the cable. And I'm like, no, I'm going to learn this new system because I have to work here for the next 40 years. This is going to be required. And it's the same thing with chat GPT. It's not going away. It is the next tool. And >> we use it for like tool identification.

38:36 Like if we don't know what something is, we can take a picture of it. Chat GPT will tell us. >> You're up in the air. You don't know what what connection to use. >> And that's what I see. Like I'm I'm 44, so obviously like a lot of people I'm going to lose them here. But if you go back to Star Wars days and like the original three movies, right? >> The way I see the way I see AI, like it's not going to it's not going to take our jobs immediately here. Yes, we're going to have humanoids and they're probably going to be able to do line work. Let's be honest. But if you if they could just use AI as more of a coach or an assistant, like if you look go back to the old Star Wars days and you look at how Luke worked with R2-D2, right?

39:14 >> R2-D2 was essentially AI, his AI, like hey, bring this up for me. Hey, like what's the calculation on this? Like what he was just giving him, feeding him real time data so Luke could fly the jet. Yeah. You know, and do what he needed to do. Be an amazing pilot. Well, same thing for us. Like you want to be an amazing lineman, what would be wrong with a little R2-D2 behind you? Just like hate this, that. Like that's how I see it.

39:38 >> Oh yeah. And like even just like its translation capabilities. Like when you're building lattice towers in California, >> they don't speak English. >> Yeah. >> So you're sitting there and you're like, "Hey, I need this piece built." And they're like, "Okay." And then they'll go get their foreman to come over and be like, "What do you want from him?" And I'm like, "I need this built. This is the next section." Okay. Okay. And then he goes and tells him this just eliminates that problem right out the gate. You can just say chat GPT look up how to say in Spanish XYZ and then you can you can get it done. And then like the rule book like you can translate the rule book into Spanish. Make sure these guys are following these rules because we had guys that were not following the rules but the rule book was in English.

40:20 And this was I think I'm dating myself but this is a long time ago. you know, now they have two sets of rule books and two sets of this and two sets of that. But >> just another example though of like >> I just see like that's how we should move to closing the gap. >> Oh yeah. Because the old guard is is just getting older and there is no way in line work >> to pass down that knowledge >> quick enough from them because they just >> besides like you can't work them that hard because they went too hard when they were in their 20s and 30s.

40:56 >> Exactly. >> And they're just gonna die. Like you can't push them any harder and they don't want to. They don't want to. >> They don't need the money. They they were paid well. They had purpose. They did their job. and now they're they're at home and they're like, "This is where I'm staying." So, you go on these storms and it's a sea of young people who have never done this before. Or they've done it, but they've never troubleshooted because like the contractor world is not known for its troubleshooting capability. We could throw up power lines for days. We boom, we got it up and we got the backbone up and energized, no problem. And then we go to the house and they're like, "Why do they only have 119 volts?" It's like, on one leg and why is it coming through the neutral? is like, "Oh yeah, this is Delta system. This is how this works."

41:36 Like most guys don't know that. The guys in >> See, it's so sad. >> Oh, yeah. Like >> the guys in Detroit are phenomenal on the Delta system. And like when I showed up there, I felt like the apprentice cuz I was like, "What are those? What are those? Those are isolating blocks. Why do you have those? Why do you have a three pot bank but only two pots?" And they're like, "Oh, the other one's down there." I'm like, "What? Like we have three A pots that way and two B and C pots that way." And I'm like, "How does that work?" And they're like, "Oh, they're just parallelled together like this." And here's these blocks in case one blows up. And it's like, "This is blowing my mind." Like the the neutral on one, like we were working in an alley and the neutral came hot and I opened the door cuz I was like, "It's glowing red and melting." I opened the door, didn't kill a thing. I'm like, "Okay, what now?" And they're like, "Oh yeah, there's like 15 different ones of these.

42:28 Like you're not getting that off. like the only thing you can do is grab it and try to pick it up. I'm like, I'm not grabbing this. It's it's cherry red. He's like, yeah, use use a metal hook. I'm like, what? Like, this is insane. They're like, it's either that or we just wait till it melts. I'm like, why are you guys so nonchalant about this? It happens all the time. >> And then a pole all the way on the other corner like caught on fire. So, we we fixed our situation. Well, another street over behind the house, that pole is on fire. and DTE shows up and they're like, " hey, do you know what happened to this pole over here?" And the foreman's like, "Oh, yeah. Our neutral got energized because it was crisscrossed and the insulation gave out." And they're like, "Oh, yeah. This happens all the time." I'm like, "How is everybody so nonchalant?" It's wild.

43:13 Okay, there's I saw Mike Row say that there's somewhere around 680,000 open positions in the trades right now in America. How do we fix this staffing problem that we have? Like what are you seeing in like how do we fix this? >> So young people are not looking at college as a first option anymore. They're seeing that as like take a gap year, do something like what I'm thinking is instead of selling the trades as you come here and you stay for 40, 50, 60 years, whatever retirement is going to turn into, you use the trades as a launchpad. Like, come out here, get good, get some skills, get some grit, and then figure out what you want to do. Like, I didn't know what I wanted to do until I was like 25, but I was already a lineman by then. So it's like even if I failed, I I'm still fine.

44:12 So now I can go and I can pursue these other passions, these other these other projects and I don't have to worry about am I going to be able to feed myself next month or am I going to not be able to retire. So I think the trades is transitioning from a forever lifestyle into a launchpad for the youth. It's like what do you want to do with your life? I want to be a florist. Okay, that doesn't pay very well, but why don't you go be a carpenter first or a pipe fitter or a lineman and then you can build an exit strategy slowly over time? Because I I started in the college route, you know, which means I started hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt, had to pay that off, then had to like crawl out of that hole, which fortunately line work allowed me to do that. I could work enough hours to outwork my past mistakes. But if I wouldn't have had to do that, my life would be infinitely better right now. I'd have, you know, multiple houses paid off and like more home time, but I probably wouldn't have chased a lot of the hard work that I did. So, it's kind of a double-edged sword if you think about it. But I think that's I think that's what you sell to the youth because they they realize that college is is basically turned into a scam.

45:29 >> Yeah. They don't want to do trades for 50 years and break down their body. That's why I said a lot of these younger guys, they they're living much healthier now, but every single one of them has a hobby. They have a side hustle. They have a side passion. one of my foreman, Colton, he trains guard dogs. I'm think I'm actually still bruised up because I went and caught some on the weekends. >> Super cool. >> Yeah.

45:53 >> And but that's like his his other passion project. And he's like, I do line work because it pays the bills, gives me health insurance, supports the family. I do the dogs because that's my passion. That's my that's my side project. But if he could grow that into a business, he can always put line work on the back shelf >> pursue this and and really go after it because he doesn't have any debt. He has no bills.

46:16 >> I actually freaking love that. I think that that's like because if you start like you could start before 20, but like say you just even started at 20. Yeah. >> And you gave line work or any trade 15 years, >> you're still only 35 and >> instead of coming out $500,000 in debt, >> you made freaking possibly made 500 grand a year >> and you could be going to college while doing this. Like after your apprenticeship, >> the union will help pay for college and you could you could work all summer >> on a big project like the Sunzoo project. They're massive amount of hours. You go there, you work all summer long. Then you go to the union hall and you say, "I'm going to go to college."

46:57 Oh, here's our college scholarship program. Here you go. >> Boom. They get they go through college for the winter. Most linemen don't like working in the winter time when it's cold. >> And then the next summer comes up, go back to work for a little bit. You could do that 100% pay for college, have zero debt when you get done, plus you have life experience. And that's what everybody's missing. Like people go to college and get out and they're like, "Why can't I find a job?" It's like, "Because you haven't done anything."

47:21 Nobody trusts you. Nobody thinks you have any knowledge. I didn't have any knowledge at 25. I thought I did. And every young person, they think plan A is going to work out. Like they they're delusional, which is good. They need to be in order to pursue these things. Like I knew I was going to be a lineman when I came out to try to be a lineman. I could have failed. There's a lot of people that fail. I wasn't that special.

47:46 But in my head, I knew I was going to make it. So, I just kept putting one foot in front of the other, kept pursuing, kept going after more searchs until I got in. That delusion is what pursues you in that path. Right now, most of them are pointed at college. They're delusional in the fact that they think I will get a degree in my field and I'm gonna be one of the lucky ones to get a job or they think I'm gonna be a proNBA star or whatever. The odds aren't there. Yeah, >> that's a that's a bad plan. A the trades you got a much better chance of making it. Even maybe not line work, maybe you're afraid of heights, but you could be a carpenter, you could be a pipe fitter. the odds of you making a good living in the trades way outweighs any other path you could possibly pursue.

48:32 >> Well, if you can make a hundred grand a year, just even call it that. And I don't care what the trade is. >> Oh, yeah. >> Unless you're completely useless, >> you can make 100 grand a year in that trade. >> Yep. >> And so for like a 20-year-old kid to go make a 100 grand a year, like you have no kids, you have no wife, hopefully at that age, I recommend not to. >> Yeah.

48:52 >> And wait to screw up till later. >> Yeah. screw up later and put Anyway, we could talk we could talk about a plan to protect yourself. >> Yeah, there's a lot of those. You always find out those after the fact. >> But if you can make 100 grand a year for 15 years and then >> don't take the from the people trying to tell you that you owe the trade to stay in it for life. That is the old guard mentality. That is what I I was raised on and you know like >> love my father love that generation >> but you don't have to stay in one trade one industry one job >> for 45 years like my uncles god bless them I g I grew up in a small forestry mining town bluecollar they wor they got a job pushing a broom at the sawmill and they became milrights or electricians like they worked there at that sawmill for 45 years or 50 years till retirement >> I can't even Imagine that.

49:50 >> I can't. I I'm just saying. And I know that >> I resonate with the kids of today more than, >> you know, that generation. >> Nobody today wants to do that anyway. >> So, yes, I love your idea of like get started in the trades. >> Go like while you're young and active and strong and healthy. >> Yep. >> Go travel the world building power lines, learn all you can, do all that cool And like I checked the bucket list of all the cool I wanted to do in the trade in 15 years. Exactly. Like easily if you just applied yourself to it and I had three kids and a wife like >> Yep.

50:25 >> you can do it. So you can go fly under helicopters. You can go build transmission lines. You can go work back alley distribution in some random city like Detroit or Chicago if you don't die. >> Yeah. >> And like just do it. Do it all and do it in 15 years. And you come out of it with a bag. Y >> and you know that side hustle that you were working on like training dogs or like whatever tech like whatever you want to do.

50:48 >> Yeah. It's like the the best piece of advice is while you're young, go find a mentor and then try to become the mentor and pass that on. And once you feel like you've passed it on, go do whatever you want. Go pursue another project. Like nobody's going to get mad at you for doing what's good for you. That's that's what's good for the trade. And that that hope I think is what's missing in society because hope there they did a study with mice about hope and it was if you put a mouse in a glass of water they'll tread water for like 15 minutes and then drown. If you take them out and revive them and put them back in the water they'll tread water for three hours. That's huge. And that's that's a mouse. Can you imagine what the youth would do if we could give them hope?

51:34 >> It's like >> come into the trades. You have plenty of hope. You can own a house. You can have a retirement. You can have healthare. You can have a family. Here's the hope. Now, what you do with that hope that's on you. If you decide, you know what? I I like this career. I want to stay here for 2530 years. Great. You're already here. If you decide, this isn't for me. I want to go do something else. You're not $100,000 in debt, which is what's happening if you go to college. Like, it's a it's a bad formula.

52:03 >> Yeah. Yeah. talk about the corporate ladder and corporate land versus what we have in the trades and I guess help the youth navigate where to go, what to do with regards to like climbing some sort of ladder if that's what they want to do in the trades. How do you do that? >> So, the contractor world looks a lot different than like a utility. A utility is fairly linear. Like you start off as an apprentice, then you're a JL, then you're a foreman, troubleman, you move into the office, like it's you move in one direction. Yeah. And on the >> on the contractor side, like >> I was telling you earlier, like you could be a GF today and catch a layoff and now you're a book two JL just looking for a job. So, it's you you move up and you slide back a lot more on the contractor side, but that freedom and mobility is your like that's the secret sauce. Like even though I'm a GF, I don't have to bow or scrape to anybody.

53:07 I can run my mouth. I can be big. I can be loud. I can do my social media stuff that I want to do. And if they don't like it, they tell me to leave. And I'm fine with that because I know I can go find other jobs. Whereas on the utility side, from what I've I've never worked on the utility side, but from what I've gathered, they're a lot more locked in and they have to not so much humble themselves, but they have to follow the guidelines and the rules a lot more beyond just being a professional at your job. And that's one of the things about the contractor side that I I love. I covet that. Like, as long as I'm a good producer, I'm safe, and guys like working with me, I can find a job anywhere I want, whenever I want, working whatever hours I want, with the exception of like somewhere where there's just no work, like in the middle of BF, which is where I live.

53:58 >> Where do you live? >> Illinois. Okay. >> so it's the Quad Cities, so they're known for being like the the home of John Deere. There's not a lot of big projects there that go on and there's not a lot of growth because it's like Iowa area. So like mostly corn fields. >> Isn't the Green Belt Express going through? >> It is. I'm excited about that because then I'll be close to home. So it's like come on buddy.

54:21 >> Heck yeah. >> But >> you've been working for Quant then? >> I know. I like working for Quant because like >> one of the things about being a contractor is I don't have control over the office. So if the office gives me broken equipment, I can't just be like, "No, I'm not going to use this." Because they might not have any other ones. With Quana, if they send something broken, I just call and say, "Hey, this is broken." Oh, okay. Boom. You got a new one. Like the next day, right there. So, and the nice thing about Quanta is when Quanta enters an area, it improves everybody because everybody has to compete with Quanta. So, and there's like a lovehate relationship because the guys that piss off Quanta have lost a huge area. Like they do the big projects. They're all over the place. If you can't work for a Quanta company, you're you're on the fringe of line work. But when Quanta enters a space, like I said, they everybody has to step their game up just to compete with them and to stay on their level. So like across the board, safety improves, training improves, equipment improves just from Quanta having a presence there, which is in my opinion good for the trade.

55:32 >> They really try to improve the community as well. >> Yeah. >> Like I know you'll hear you'll hear a lot of stuff and you'll hear, you know, you'll get you'll get the comment section. Don't go to Reddit. >> Yeah, I've been. >> Yeah. >> But they really truly do. And if you actually actually go to where a quant company has been like cuz the Sunzia project is like a great example of that especially where they're like button down in a certain location for a long a long haul >> like the wind side the communities around that project are just doing so much better than yeah >> that like I said Quana just everybody has to step up to their level so it's like you don't actually in a crisis you don't raise to the level of the crisis you fall to the level of whatever system you have and Quanta has the biggest best system >> so >> like I said I'm I'm happy when they enter a space I like the competition of other companies >> but like I said quant being there just makes everybody elevate.

56:41 >> Yeah. Okay. How has having an online presence helped or hindered your career? >> So, it's a double-edged sword, especially because I was one of the early people to start doing it. And when I first started doing it, my boss was like, "If I catch you doing this on the job, you're fired." Like, no questions, just gone. So, I took a lot of footage and didn't post it until after the job was over. >> And that's where I learned to like delay posting things. especially if you're doing anything kind of maybe not the best, breaking a rule that is not really a safety rule, but it's a rule. And so so yeah, so that has been a interesting sea to navigate because it it started out don't ever do this and then it turned into we're okay with doing this, don't have our logo in there. And now it's evolved into, would you mind posting a couple with the logo? And I'm like, what? What? You know, like I used to have to do this basically in the dark in a closet so nobody would catch me.

57:44 And then and now it's like when I go on Storm, there's probably everywhere I go, people know me by TikTok. Oh yeah, you're that guy. I had an apprentice show up and they're like, are you this guy? I'm like, yeah, that's me. Only spans that's my handle. And so it's like one guy asked for my autograph, which was like super weird because I'm like I'm not that famous, >> especially since like you don't know how to take it, right? Like are you with me?

58:09 >> Yeah. I'm like, is this a compliment? Are you trying to be funny? Like >> yeah, are you going to go make a Tik Tok or >> Oh, look at this idiot. you know, but it's like now I've been very vocal on all my social medias about safety, accountability, like just my view on how the trade should work and how we can improve safety, how we can improve efficiency. And so now I have that name. I actually have companies reaching out to me like what do what do you think we should do to improve or do you mind posting this or can you try out this product like High Voltage Industries the shirt I'm wearing and the hat I got on this was the first company to send me any merchandise and that was when I was like oh I can I can get stuff from social media this is cool. So then I started getting products and trying to do products reviews and that turns into a whole another animal and you're like you're trying to figure out can I do this while doing my job and most of the time you can't. So then it's like well I'll just do the job and have the product in the background and then somebody will ask about it and then I can post like hey here's the review of what this is. And so I started doing that and it's just like I had my tools stolen once when I was in Detroit and Klein saw it and they just sent me a whole new set of tools and I was like holy I like this is a and I didn't have money for new tools at the time because tools are expensive like my belt, my hooks, my pelican, every hand tool I had. I had it in a bin and it was locked and then in the morning it was unlocked and it was just gone and I was And yeah, Klein sent me a whole new kit and I was like holy like this social media stuff's for real. And now all these companies, they want to do something on social media, but they don't know how because most of the heads of companies are in their 50s and 60s. Yeah.

59:56 >> They barely know how to run their cell phone. So now I get asked like, >> "How do I reach these people? How do I how do I get people to know about my company?" New storm companies, they reach out to me all the time like, "Hey, can you can you post about our storm roster?" And so then you're posting that because like for storms, most people don't realize this, but there's there's no like bat signal to get us to show up for storms. It is literally just me and my buddies in a couple groups. This company's looking for hands. This company's looking for hands. There's a storm over here. We're we're going to go. This is when we leave. Call this number. And like that's that's absurd.

60:32 This is a billion-dollar industry. Multiple billion dollar industry. >> Multiple billions. and they don't have a central system for us to do that. And it's like some areas do, but like most of the East Coast, most of the southern areas, they don't they don't have any idea how we show up. And I didn't even realize that they didn't know this until I started talking to some of these executives because of my social media. And they're like, "Yeah, how how do you guys hear about any of the jobs?" I'm like, "You don't you don't know where we come from now? We have no idea." One guy I was like, "Yeah, you know, talking about the IBW and he was like, "What's the EU?" And I'm like, "What?"

61:10 >> He's like, "Yeah, what's the EU?" I'm like, "That's that's >> I was like, that's where 100% of your skilled labor comes from." Like, how do you not know this? And it's just like it's wild that disconnect between the office and the field. And it's like, >> again, it's one of those things you're like, "Surely somebody's doing something. Somebody has solved this. I just don't know where the solution is." And then you look around and you realize, no, nobody's solved this.

61:34 Nobody's even trying to solve this. They're just going to run it till the wheels fall off. Wild. >> Yeah. This industry has survived forever on just its ability to naturally get work >> and do very very very well without having to go through traditional marketing or advertising, etc. Right. and they're just finally starting to see like beginning stages like of birthing understanding how powerful marketing yeah is and it's just >> the fact that >> people's attention is on social media right now social media is the vehicle right now >> look at where we are >> it could be billboards it could have been the print the printed press like whatever it was in the past like it's just right now it's social media >> so get get the on it right >> like you're so behind >> and they think, "Oh, well, we just don't need it because yeah, okay, yeah, you're making 40 billion, whatever."

62:33 >> Like, >> invest in social, you guys. Like, it's insane the opportunities >> that are out there still that you're just leaving on the table because people don't know you. >> Yeah. And that's like a lot of these companies, they think like, "Oh, I'll just I'll just get to work cuz I'm here." I'm like, "Yeah, but like those places that you're not, they don't know you exist." And if you want to be in those markets because this area might dry up like you did all the projects, they're not going to put any more money into this specific area where you're at.

63:02 And then you have places like people like Guana where they're reaching out and grabbing the work everywhere. Like any any like big construction project, it's going to Guana. Like everybody knows it's going to it's not even a question because there's no other company that can handle it. And it's like, well, maybe there is, but I've never heard of them. They don't have any presence anywhere. And so it's like that's where >> I still get the question, okay, like >> show me the show me the ROI on your social media.

63:32 >> And I'll be like, okay, I can't directly show you the ROI on this social media, but that amazing construction manager that you got for that project that made you 18 extra points on that, which translated into, you know, several hundred million dollars. saw a Tik Tok about how great a company it was to be there and he's here now because he saw that Tik Tok. So it's like >> is that enough ROI for you? Yeah. They didn't like you can't like >> put a website link where they have a clickth through that you know showed that you bought this Tumblr from that but like that guy >> helped make you freaking millions of dollars and he's there because he saw a Tik Tok or he listened to a podcast or something guys like I can't show you that directly >> right >> but it's happening >> so you either invest in it or you just continue being slow on it like I don't know what to Everybody's like, "How do we get young people in? Invest in social media." Oh, we don't want to do that.

64:33 Like, okay, then you don't want young people. That's where they are. They're not on LinkedIn. They're not looking in a newspaper. They're not at job fairs. They don't do that anymore. That's not how you get jobs anymore. You don't write applications. You look online, people have been writing applications for like years and it's going to an AI. The AI is filtering them out and they're not getting through. And so, they're just done. So, now young people are like, "Where do I go?" If you don't have a social media presence, you won't find them because that's where they're at.

65:01 How many people have seen like helicopter videos from you or me and then they're like, "Oh, that looks fun. I want to go be a lineman so I can do that." It's like, "Yeah, that's that's the carrot to get them through the door and this is going to take you six, seven, maybe 10 years to get to, but you can do this. I'm not special. I'm not any different than you. you can see yourself in me because I'm a normal person that you look and you can watch my Tik Toks now. They're like, "Oh, I can be like him. I want to do that. That looks like fun." And that's how you get them in the door. If you're not investing in that stuff, like >> you don't want the young people.

65:37 >> How crazy is it if I if I told them I've told them this before, hire a guy like yourself >> just to point his rearfacing camera at his face and talk into it and post it raw like that. Mhm. >> They'd be like, "Well, it needs a logo on it at least." Like, >> you guys, >> you're looking in the wrong direction. >> No. Like, you're going to get a swipe. You're not going to get a view as soon as you post that logo on there. Like, get rid of the logo. Get rid of the the logo bombs. Get rid of like everything.

66:06 >> We've been advertised to death since we were born. Like, the reason Netflix and Hulu and all those services exist at all is we got sick and tired of commercials being shoved down our throat. Now that they've added commercials to those services, people are cancelling them. Everywhere you go, you're just unendated with advertisement, advertisement, advertisement, advertisement. That is no longer working. You they just ignore it. If a job fair advertisement comes on, they'll they'll go to their phone and do something else until the ad's over and then they'll come back.

66:36 You didn't actually reach anybody and you just paid money for the ad. Pay for a guy to have a real authentic conversation with the camera. that will get more people in. >> Or POV, this is my regular day on the job. This is what it actually looks like. >> And that's so hard to get a company to do because they're like, "Oh, what if we're breaking a safety rule? What if we're doing this?" It's like, "What are you afraid of? Aren't you following all the rules? Well, we can't control everything." Okay, then review the video before we post it. Like, you can say, "Okay, I've looked at everything." And you you might violate some rule, but nothing bad happened. It'll spark a a conversation in the comments. the comments will retrain the people that are doing the video. Isn't that like a good catch? Isn't that what you're looking for? Oh, hey, these are the these are the things that are wrong that you need to correct before something bad happens. Thank god we took a video and caught it so that we could all learn from it. No, no, no. We don't want we don't want to do that because we don't want our name on it. Okay, >> I got a great one, too. So, we did that.

67:36 We did that on-site podcast. Are you getting that pickup truck in R? So, of course, I I at my stage in the in the career in my career and doing this for as long as I have, I just post the videos because I know what I'm trying to look for and say like and if I miss something safety wise, whatever, right? >> I just post it and I let the people come out of the woodworks to comment on it >> and I'm not of my choice. Yeah. So, exactly that example, >> I post the podcast and the social media and sure I get a safety guy. One of your camera guys isn't wearing a seat belt in the back seat.

68:13 >> Yep. >> Great, buddy. >> Okay. Thanks. Thanks. >> Thanks. >> Good catch. Y >> it was a good catch. You know, like not to knock this, it was a good catch. Thank you. >> If you keep watching for, you know, 45 seconds, you'll see that he catches that >> and puts it on. >> Yep. >> It's like, >> there's so many keyboard warriors just like nitpicking everything you do, and it's like, yeah, good, fine. It's like, how many times have you forgot to put your seatelt on?

68:39 >> Mhm. >> And you remember like 10 minutes into it, you hit a big bump and you're like, "Oh, yeah. >> Yeah, All right, click." That speaks anyway. Yeah, you could go down this rabbit hole for forever. But the point of it is >> is >> we need to do more of it. >> Oh, yeah. >> And massively more reality or more like making for the plat. That's the other thing, like making for the platform that you're posting on. Mhm.

69:05 >> is >> Yeah. Cuz like Instagram is very different from Tik Tok is very different from YouTube. Like this >> totally different formulas for all of those. And if you don't know that, you're going to it up. >> Yeah. >> 100%. >> And it takes it takes effort. So like even your Tik Toks, they take effort. And that's another thing that people don't realize. Oh, you just pointed the camera and talked into it. I'm like, >> okay, you do it.

69:29 >> Yeah. Yeah. just with me watching you >> pull out your camera, hit record, and talk into it. >> But I'm gonna watch you. >> Yep. >> You're not gonna be able to do it. I promise you. Unless you've done it a hundred times or more, >> you're not going to be able to do it. >> Oh yeah. That's why all mine are by myself. It's like I'll I'll be like, " that was stupid. I got to go back and delete that.

69:50 >> Start over." You like stutter or something or somebody walks up to the window and then you feel like you're you're caught doing something dirty like, "Oh, you making a TikTok." It's like, "Don't look at me." >> No. you're flush and just like anymore, derailed. Yeah. >> What kind of what kind of message are you trying to promote through your content? >> So, I think just awareness of where we're at and what's going on. So, a lot of times there's there's a lot of people that whenever there's an accident, you'll hear, "Well, they had stop work authority. They should have stopped it."

70:26 It's like, "Yeah, okay." Okay, but like instead of just throwing that out there and ending the conversation, let's dig deeper. Why didn't they use stop work authority? What was going on? Were they time pressured? Had they gotten away with this several times in the past? Were they rewarded for it? Like, did they bring up a concern and it was ignored? Like, those are the steps we need. Like, sure, he should have stopped the work, but that's not the end all beall. That's putting all the responsibility on the lowest rung of the ladder. like let's figure out why those steps are happening and dig deeper into it. So I'm trying to like instead of having a stop work authority it should be stop and record because if there's a record now it gets fixed. If I mean everybody's heard the saying as an apprentice like if your foreman tells you to do something stupid tell him to show you and if he won't go up and show you then it was a dumb idea. Well like let's use that same theory for oh you want me to use this bucket truck and I've said that it's not a good bucket truck. why don't you run it or you put your name on it that I'm gonna go run it and if I die it's your fault. that would a increase accountability and b would stop a lot of these accidents from happening because as soon as your name is on something you care >> but if you can just it was headache it was it was chaos it was this it was that the office told me to do it I don't know you know they get that I was just following orders type of mentality and that's one of the things I'm trying to remove like take almost an extreme ownership if you would not do the the task you're telling somebody to do then you shouldn't be telling them to do it and I use this with my apprentices, too.

71:59 Anything I tell you to do, if you say, "I'm not comfortable with this." Okay, I'll go do it. You can come with me if you want to, or you can be on the ground and you can watch. I was I was working with my buddy Jake Sten, great lineman, super smart. We were doing a pretty complicated Y blocking scheme and I I went through the whole thing. I explained it and he's like, "I can't see it. I don't understand." I'm like, "Okay." And I tried to explain it a little bit different. He goes, "No, I trust you. I'll I'll get it. Just I don't know the steps. You're going to have to walk me through it." I'm like, "Okay, cool." Like, that's a high level of trust. And the apprentice was with me and he's like, "Why is he doing it if he doesn't understand it?" I'm like, "Because we've worked together enough that he trusts my plan to work." And so, we're going through it and the apprentice is on the ground. I'm talking through the plan with the apprentice.

72:50 And he's like, "Okay." Okay. And then about three steps into it, he yells down, "I can see it now. I got it." And then like boom, we were off and running. And like that level of trust was a great lesson for the for the apprentice to see because he's like, "Why did he go through with it if he didn't understand it?" I'm like, "This is the level of trust that you will develop as you get a reputation as you are the like quote unquote the guy who knows type of thing." And it was like that was one of those stories that made me feel like I am stepping into a leadership position and it's helping. And I'm kind of doing it through TikTok and social media by because Jake helped me do the the deadending video. And I was like, "Hey, do you mind taking a video of you dead ending wire while you're up there?" And he's like, "Yeah, no problem." He like, no hesitation, no question, just I know exactly what you're doing. Yeah, I'll do it. and he took a video, talked through the whole thing, came down, I edited it, posted it. I was like, "This is this is night and day different." And so, we're getting that getting over that stigma of social media and of questioning of stopping when you want it to stop. And it's like that's that's just like an invaluable skill to have is to know when you don't know and being able to admit it.

74:09 >> See, follow me here for a second. I I got a extreme interest in business. So I hired a business coach. This is group coaching once once a week for the last year. >> I go online, there's 1500 people in this group call. It's 90 minutes. It's one of the, you know, it's from Dan Martell, one of the best business coaches online right now. And what I learned through that is the business world, especially in like tech, these guys would know too, is like you screen record Like if you want to if you want to document your process and somebody knows how to do this process better than you or wants you want to train >> you screen record yourself walking through the process of doing it. You talk yourself through it and that gets loaded up onto your Google Drive or whatever notion >> so that when you hire a new employee they can come in and look at you know this is how you do step one through five. This is how this is the example.

74:59 This is how you do this is how you get trained. >> So like what you're talking about right here is just the trades version of that. And so now like insert AI into that equation, you know, like insert a camera into that equation and insert the ability to document the process that you just ran through with your buddy of how to do whatever task it was step by step through that. That mixed with AI's ability to take that and create a system of, you know, systematize that for the next group. That's how I think that's how we get the knowledge transfer from the old guard to the new guard.

75:39 >> Oh yeah. Right. And it can it can translate it into several. You don't learn well this way, how about this way. You don't learn well that way, how about this way. It can it can explain it in words. It could show you pictures. It can show you video. Do all of that >> as long as it's recorded and documented. And we just have to get over our our whether it's your ego or whether it's fear of being >> caught for doing something that you shouldn't be because culture in the past has been so on most safety departments and most like yeah we got you. We're going to get you fired.

76:12 You're going to lose your job. you know, you lose your way of if you can get over that and just you just need the companies to understand that the purpose behind why they're doing it, right? The why isn't to get you. And then you have to communicate that to the guys and gain their trust, which that's not a difficult I mean, that is a difficult process to >> gain trust with your employer that they're not going to go out there and just trying to get you overse.

76:39 >> Yeah. >> But like that's how we do it. >> Oh, yeah. Like cuz if we don't do that, you're left behind. >> Yeah, >> 100%. I think it would be very very smart if a company picked one crew on the job to be like this is the social media crew. Like we're going to film this. We want you guys to film it, but like we're going to support you, give you time. I want you to film this activity or this wire setup or deadending wire. Here's a couple phones or here's whatever. and we will support you in doing the social media thing for this knowledge. Like that's part of the process and this crew would just know like we're on camera today. We're going to be filming this stuff. But like don't bring a camera crew out that makes everybody nervous. Just film it yourselves. We have all the all the ability and knowledge and tools. We could do it ourselves and then just dump the raw data into somebody who wants to do it and then pay them to do it. And you could have a teaching social media videography crew like on storm on big projects even on like little hairy projects like what I was on where it's like you're building through a wetlands and it's like how do you do this when you don't have anywhere to set up. The older guys are not going to want to be on camera but they are way more than happy to coach a young guy. This is what I'd do. Say it like this and then okay you can go stand over there and I'll be the cameraman. like you just need to get those steps.

78:01 >> There's there's two ways to look at it. All right? Like you could look at it through the lens like every bucket truck gets outfitted, every bucket gets outfitted with a camera and microphone system >> and it's all the data is going back to AI. So we can analyze so many different things like how to make our jobs more productive, how to make our jobs more safe like insert whatever that should be happening. But then you can also take that and create content out of it, right? You can take that and you can be the company now that's creating the way to show people how to dead end. Like you become >> the go-to trainer for the industry, right? Like you can show people how to properly dead end show people how to like >> properly set up a job site, set up a bucket, like whatever our steps are, but you're also now >> developing every process and framework for doing all of those things. and using AI to help you make you better at it, right? Showing the weaknesses, showing the strengths, like pointing these things out. And I don't care if you're old or young. I don't care like it's something that has to slowly >> work itself in. So, you got to start somewhere. Might as well start with the younger group that are willing and able to do it.

79:14 >> Yep. >> And but I think it just needs to be there. The the thing you'll have to do though before it would get accepted is you'll have to put rule sets around it because if I can film and get all the data of everything you do every day, I can go like this. You're not being productive right now. >> Sure. >> Go to work. You're not doing this. Go to work. And it's like, >> especially on the contractor side, if you're not making money, you have to justify it. So, like if you work for the power company, you could have three guys on this poll or you could take two days for this poll and nobody's going to come at you and give you a layoff. If you did that on the contractor side, lay off immediately. Like, you didn't you only needed one crew for that. You didn't need two days. And so, that's that's where that push back's going to come from. So, you have to build in these metrics of yes, we're going to collect this data. This is how it's allowed to be used for you, but not against you.

80:04 And then you have to have like an ironclad agreement and system to protect that because otherwise guys are they'll you know even with the Sam Sarah stuff there's guys that go in there cut it with their clients just disconnect it because you're not going to do that to me. You want these power lines built you're going to you're going to play by my rules. And right now they can do that. They can strongarm their way through it because they're the experience. There's a shortage of linemen. There's a big storm. whatever the case may be, that power is being eroded to the point where it's going to be you're going to do this because we're going to force you to. So, it's like that balance is really hard to figure out.

80:46 >> Yeah. >> And the same thing with safety because like safety isn't the enemy, but they come dressed like it sometimes. Sure. >> And so they're like, "Oh, we got you. You're doing this wrong." Or, >> you know, I'm I'm watching you on the camera and you hit the brakes too hard at the stop sign. It's like, "Okay, cool. But then again that safety culture's got to change because if the safety guy >> if he doesn't understand that his jobs >> in jeopardy and if he doesn't start figuring out a way to work with >> AI and work with these systems >> your job's gone too. So like just figure it out or like >> stop coming out if you're if you're known as the gotcha guy terrible >> or the gotcha company you're not going to get anybody to work for you. And the worst thing is >> if everybody's using these systems though, everybody's using them and it's no longer just like, "Oh, I'm going to work for them because they don't >> because they don't have the system."

81:38 >> Yeah. And now if like you go work for them and that's the gotcha company. >> Yeah. They just won't work for you. >> No one's going to work for you. >> And that that's the thing like you'll see safety come out and they'll take a picture and then they'll bring it up the next day and it's like wait so your your only job is safety. Yeah. That's my only job. and you let them do something unsafe and didn't tell anybody until this morning, they're not going to get fired. They're going to get a talking to you of like, "Hey, you shouldn't do this. That was bad. You got away with it." But it's a good catch. Somebody caught it. Don't do that again. You, on the other hand, you should be fired because they broke a rule. Maybe they were complacent. Maybe they didn't realize they were breaking a rule. You knew they were breaking a rule. Took a picture instead of just going over and talking to them like a man. It's like that's that's if you had time to take a picture, you had time to say, "Hey, stop."

82:25 >> So it's like that's where, like I said, safety comes dressed like the enemy. And then then you have guys that are pushing back against safety. And it's like, man, if you guys just explained why behind some of these safety rules, >> like we would follow them. We want to work safe. I'm I'm the end product of a safe workday. Like I want all my arms. I'm addicted to oxygen. I want to keep breathing it. So it's like we're on the same team, bud. quit quit rowing in the wrong direction.

82:52 >> Yeah. Yeah. I just think there's I I don't know. I get massive push back from it because it's like in a sense like Quant's already been >> testing the waters in this area. I think they could go full into it, but they've they've had a lot of push back just with like the litics systems in the cameras in the trucks, right? >> And guys again were thinking, "Oh, they're just going to get trying to get you're just trying to get me. you're just trying to catch me. It's I understand the mentality be behind that.

83:22 But if they also understood that it's it's saving lives, >> it's prevented accidents. It's prevented >> it's prevented personal liability because you didn't run into somebody. >> Somebody ran into you. >> Somebody ran into you. And there was no other way to prove that other than that camera that caught that in that truck. And it's literally saved your life. >> Yep. And your CDL. your ability to feed your family, your ability to feed your family, your job, your bank account, everything.

83:53 >> Because you didn't kill that family, >> they killed themselves. >> Yeah. I I have a saying about that. It's like if you want a guy to be thankful, >> it's happened. Oh, yeah. Already. >> Oh, it's >> multiple times. >> I think it's like 75% I I looked it up just cuz I was interested, but like 75% of the time the camera catches somebody else doing something wrong, not the driver. So, it's like those are good odds. I like to play those odds. It's like if you want a guy to be thankful, save his life. If you want him to be an ally forever, save his livelihood. And that's what these things do. Like you can keep feeding your family because you didn't get your CDL pulled because somebody break checked you. You can not go to jail for somebody running into the pole behind you because you followed all the rules. Like those are the type of things where guys are like, I hated cameras. Now I won't drive a truck without it. That's how you get them on your team. And like they they do a terrible job at showcasing that. Like I said, I looked it up. 75% of the time the cameras are helping you. Lead with that. Like if you if you started with that, hey guys, we're putting cameras in the trucks. It saves us some money. 75% of the time these cameras are protecting you. Here's the stats. Guys are going to be like, oh yeah, I don't want give me the truck with a camera. I want it. I just don't think either. I don't think that guys understand how fast it's changing and how fast it's going to continue to change. And if you don't just like roll with it and try to work with it, you're just going to like >> you're not going to benefit from it.

85:25 Like >> if you know the sensors on the outriggers, how if the outrigger doesn't have enough pressure, the bucket doesn't go in the air. >> Like the same sort of thing. Like you're saying, "Oh, we'll just put our thumb on the camera." You're not going to be able to put your thumb on the camera because if the camera's blocked, the bucket won't go in the air. >> Like, if it doesn't work, it won't work, >> right? It's everybody wants this. And it's like, if you guys just go in the same direction, we could have an awesome system. Getting people to work together in this trade is >> damn near impossible. Quana is about the only one who can do it just because they have such a huge reach. So if Quana starts doing it, everybody else has to to keep up.

86:06 >> Yeah. what else are you trying to do with your content? >> So, I'm trying to showcase to the younger crowd like this is what life in the trades looks like. Like I I touch on the mental health thing because I think it's the last statistic I looked up, it's like you're five times more likely to die of suicide. So, it's like you need to take care of your mental health. >> Being on the road, working 100 hour weeks, missing stuff with your family, like those are big things about this trade. And it's not it's not my responsibility at the bottom to fix it.

86:43 So, I'm kind of just like flagging big problems in the industry because I now have the ear of people several steps ahead above me because of my social media presence. So, it's like you want to you want to help the guys on the ground. If you actually care about their safety, you should build in breaks. Like, let them go home. If you're not letting them go home, they're burning out. >> And if you don't have a system to take care of that, you're going to run out of people because they're all just building an escape plan. They're not trying to stay in the trade forever. If you want guys that are going to stay in the trade for the long haul, you have to make the long haul feasible. And right now it it's not because the the projects are getting faster, they're getting bigger.

87:28 like you said with AI, the data centers like they are huge data hungry. They need a lot of energy. And these projects are just getting longer. The bids and the margins are getting thinner. It's like you're you're burning these guys out. You might have a three-man crew. That's good. They can do everything. What if one of them's sick? Now the whole crew shuts down. that means they're showing up sick because I'm not going to let my buddies go into the trenches alone. So, it's like I'll show up sick. I'll show up when my my kid has a problem. I'll show up when I have a problem because I don't want to let my co-workers down. You boost that to a fiveman crew. Now, a guy can take a day off. Now, a guy can, you know, go to his kids championship baseball game because it's important to him and the crew can keep moving. Like those are the type of things that we need to start acknowledging from the top down rather than just the bottom being like, "Well, nobody cares."

88:20 >> Yeah. >> I think that the guys that run these companies and the safety department should be if they're not, they should be listening and watching guys like yourself on social media more than they are because they keep asking about how do we how do we get in the field more without having to get in the field more? Because that's what everyone wants to do. They want to get out there without having to get out there, right?

88:45 >> Well, this is one way that you do it. You support >> the creation of content from the guys in the field that are talking >> like about and you protect like you protect them for that, too. You allow them to talk. >> Have their back. >> Yeah. >> Have their back cuz >> that's what everybody's looking for. >> There's obviously going to be those guys that are just like going to get on there and rant and talk >> You don't need to listen to them or listen to them, whatever. But if you listen to guys like yourself, >> it's still good info. Yeah. If they're on there ranting, you can see, oh, this is this is the >> the mentality of that type of person.

89:19 So, it's it's still good to be aware of. >> I'll get a comment from, you know, some of the people that help me with social media around here like, "Hey, do you want to delete this post or or delete this comment?" And I'll be like, you know, sometimes it's obviously somebody that's just like piss, you know, he got pissed off or one person here, the organization pissed them off and they're going off about the whole organization.

89:40 It's just not >> right. >> But other times it's like >> something that I'm like, no, you know what? Leave that up because it's pointing at something that needs to be addressed and yet it's painful. >> I don't think it's going to hurt anything to leave that up and you know, it's going to in fact make things better. So just leave it, you know, let somebody see that. >> And part of loving something is not ignoring its flaws. Saying this, I love this industry. I love the union. I love this company. But it has flaws. We can acknowledge those and then work to fix them. But if you just ignore them, it's never going to get any better.

90:17 >> See, when I started this, I started like closer to the field than I am now. I'm 10 years away from like working in the trades. This is what and you're going to be at this point sooner than later as well. >> You're not going to be in it every day doing dead ends and working, you know, 14 hour days. >> The transition to being a GF was really weird. Like I've been a GF for a couple months here and there, but this transition was like no more working. And I was like, what do I do with my hands?

90:47 >> Yeah. Not allowed to touch anything. >> Yeah. Unless I was teaching, I wasn't allowed to go up. And it was like that was >> Can I teach anybody something? And I was like looking for anything I could teach, you know? >> Talk about that a bit more. >> Yeah. So I was so like we'd be doing a Y blocking scheme and it was like, "Oh, I can get up in the bucket. Nobody knows how to do this." And then the next time it was like, "Damn it, everybody knows how to do this now. Now I got to find something else." Then it was like, "Oh, dead ends. I I can teach dead ends." I go up there and then I'm like, "Now everybody knows how to do dead ends. Now what am I going to do?" And eventually like the GF sets the tone for the show up.

91:20 >> Yeah. And so eventually you get to a point where it's like my foremen are solid. They know exactly what to do. I can trust their plans. I basically show up, give them the okay, and off they run. And they know how to run their crews. They're all tight-knit. And it's like you by doing a good job, you make yourself look like you don't need to be there. So like people show up and they're like, "What are you doing?" I was like, >> "Nothing. Everything's been done." And they're like, "Well, why do we need to pay you?" And I'm like, "You're paying me because I got to the point where I'm doing nothing." Like, this is the success story.

91:57 >> It doesn't just happen with an orchestra. >> It's like, I got everything up and run. And like, you could just get everything up and running and then lay that guy off, but then they're not going to follow the next guy. So then it's like, yeah, it looks like I'm doing nothing because they don't have any questions. As soon as they have a question, I'm on it. >> As soon as there's a roadblock, that's what I'm going after. But right now there's no roadblocks. Everything is it's like a nice dance. Everybody knows their part. Everybody's moving properly.

92:24 And so that's a that was a a weird transition to get to to where like I felt like I wasn't needed and everyone's like, "No, you're you're doing what you're supposed to by being not needed." I'm like, "This seems so >> Is that something you just learned or somebody teach you that or did you observe?" >> My my general foreman Matt Pace, he basically taught me this. He's like eventually cuz he started doing superintendent and project manager stuff. So he got kind of overloaded and that's when he moved me up and he was like you're the guy who knows you have the answers to the questions these guys have and I am doing this stuff. So I need you to be in the field and be the field GF basically. And so in the beginning I was out there I was jumping on crews, jumping over here teaching. I was like a like a wonder foreman. you just go to all the crews and I was in the air doing stuff 16 hour days. We were real real big time crunch and then we I got to a point where everybody knew what was going on and I and I was like hey man do you want to bump me back now and he's like no this you that's the success like you did it good job keep doing it I'm like doing what he's like just wait you'll find it and then like oh we hit this roadblock oh cool I have something to do and you run over and you get the roadblock out of the way and then it's like well now what do I do and then he's like just wait for the next roadblock that's that is your job, you are there to support them. It's that servant leadership thing. And so that's where I like I've always heard it and I've always been like, "Oh yeah, that's a great idea, servant leadership, blah blah blah." But this is where like I actually embraced it and figured it out.

93:58 And then I was like, "Oh, this is this applied." And so that was that was a cool transition. >> You're working for the people under you. >> Exactly. >> They're not working for you. You are working for them. >> And the better you do, the easier job gets. Like it's a pain in the ass in the beginning because there's roadblocks everywhere. There's >> knowledge gaps everywhere and you feel like you're running yourself ragged and guys drag up and then you have to retrain the next guy and you get mad.

94:23 And >> some guys kind of like turn that into being mad at the workforce. And I never did that. I was I was an annoying younger brother. I'm used to people being annoying. That that's my whole personality. So I'm like, "Yeah, you ask a lot of questions. Great. Here's a lot of answers." And then eventually they stop asking questions and you show up and they're just like, "Here, sign the tailboard." Yeah. Oh, yeah. This is a great plan. Yeah. Everything's good. Do you need me for anything? No. All right.

94:50 I'll be over here. You know, and that's like I said, that is the success story. And then you get to a point where it's like you can you just kind of >> as somebody who's used to being on the hard jobs and being on the cruise that's working all the time, always got something to do. It's you feel useless, but you're the exact opposite of useless. You you are the reason this is going well. And it's it's just hard to wrap your head around from the top looking down rather than the bottom looking up.

95:21 >> What other lessons have you learned that you like really want to pass along? Like what are the what are a couple of things that you talk about all the time in your TikToks that are like things that you're trying to get across to people that will listen? So like the the rules are all there for a reason. You should figure out the reason because that's where the knowledge is. Like just following the rules by wrote, anybody can do that. A monkey could get trained to do that. But if you know the why behind the reason, now you're valuable because the why can always apply. The how sometimes doesn't work out. So once you have that why, then you can and sometimes the why is like this is how we cover you on insurance if anything goes wrong. Like that's it. That's why it's more of a hassle for you personally. It's a pain in the ass. But if you don't do it, you're not covered. And it's like, if you know that, then you can tell that to the crew and the crew will be like, "Oh, okay." And I think that's that's missed a lot is trying to figure out the why.

96:18 Everybody wants to know how things are done, but not enough people dive into the why things are happening. And that's kind of what I try to >> try to analyze more. Like even my talking head stuff is like this is what's going on. this is why I think that's going on. I might be wrong. Correct me if I'm wrong, but like this is this is where I see the industry. This is where I see this this policy or status or whatever. And so I'm like I'm almost talking through the thought process in real time on TikTok. And then if you go through the comments, I answer most of my comments because I'm also trying to figure out what's going on.

96:57 I'm just a I I like information. I like figuring out why. Do you talk to do you talk to your crews the same way? >> Yep. I'm I will always tell on my crews, figure out the why. If you don't know the why, then ask because I will take I will stop everything. Teaching is what you do first. Production is what you do while teaching. And that was huge when I came up in the trade because you had the productive crew, then you had the teaching crew. And the teaching crew was the old man. He needed a set of young hands to do the heavy lifting to do right >> the stuff that his body was breaking down. Couldn't do anymore, but he still needed a paycheck. That was the crew that I got put on because I was asking questions all the time. I would stop what I'm doing, turn around, ask a question, and if they didn't have an answer, I'd go ask somebody else. That made a lot of people mad because then they're like, "What do you mean you Why are you questioning me?" I'm like, "I'm not questioning you. I just I need to know why so that I can keep it in my head." And so I got put on the old man crew and it was like a slower pace, a learning pace, which was great for me.

98:01 and then when I got to the production crew, I was the guy who knew why we were doing all the things we were doing. The other guys were just fast at it. So it's like, do you do you know why you're doing this? And they're like, no, this is just how we do it. I'm like, oh, do you mind if I tell you why we're doing this? Because I think it's interesting and surely you will think this is interesting. Not everybody thinks it's interesting. I found that out later, but I would just sit there and kind of narrate while I was doing stuff. This is what I'm doing. This is why I'm doing it. This is how I'm doing this. This is how I'm doing this is why I'm doing that. And if it was a younger guy, >> usually they liked it. If they were like in their 40s, they were like, "Do you ever shut the hell up?" I'm like, "Oo, sorry.

98:42 >> No, I've had too much coffee." >> I hit the bar. >> Yeah. And so that's and that like being a GF, it makes you such a better foreman because you understand why they do the things they do. So like there's a this is kind of off on a tangent, but there's like an kind of an A crew and then like a B crew. And the B crew I see is like the slower pace teaching crew and the A crew is like your hammers. You're sending them to the worst jobs and you stack that crew heavy. And I I actually learned this from a a good a good GF who does a lot of hairy projects, Bucky Miller. And he would get an A crew, and that A crew would go do all the hammer jobs, everything difficult, everything hard, and he'd stack it.

99:30 There'd be a lot of good guys there. Well, what I figured out was you don't drag your buddies. So you you put all these guys in the worst, hairiest positions, and they they accomplish it. They're bonded. They go to the next hard job and they're like, "Oh man, this is I want to drag." And it's like, "Yeah, you should." You going to leave me? You going to make me do this hard job by myself? No. So now they're trapped. They're going to do the hard job together. And they do. And then the B crew, meanwhile, is like, "You want to be good? You want to make it to A Crew?

100:01 You got to prove it on B Crew." And that's the the knowledge, the old man who knows every every bolt, every spec, everything about everything, he's running B Crew. And he's telling Bucky like, "This guy can make it. He can he can run with him. All right, cool. Move him over there." And then he gets bonded to A Crew. And now you have this hammer of a crew that you can throw on absolutely anything and they'll just knock it out of the park. B Crew could do it, but B crew is old. B Crew is the knowledge crew. I think that's a a super cool dynamic. And when I was on A Crew, I was mad about it because it's like, why are we doing everything hard? Why don't you spread some of this out and give them some hard work? And then when I was a GF and I was like, "Oh, that's why." Because if you spread them out, it's really easy to drag a crew where I'm I'm not with these guys every day. I don't really care. I'm gonna go do something else. I don't like this job.

100:51 And they leave. And then you're like, "I'll be damned." >> Yeah. >> Like there was a strategy the whole time. I just didn't know it. >> Cuz they're not doing anything interesting. They're not with the guys that they like being around. >> It's just it's boring. It's uninteresting. So it's there's no purpose, no pride. It's like you're missing a couple key elements here. I always tried to tell people that I worked for as well that you like >> I always gave a you know cuz I'm from Canada I always give a hockey reference like >> why don't you create you know an A-line like your first liner >> these are the guys man like because we always we have fun playing together right it's the same thing in the trades like >> and then when you put that first line out or that power play unit out if they're solid and their chemistry right?

101:41 Like there's nothing. They're always producing. >> They're scoring goals. They're getting the fans riled up. They're getting in fights. Like >> they produce enough to to carry the whole show up% >> easily and they're doing the hardest things and it's like they're in the mud. They're in the worst conditions and it's just like I know they'll make it >> because when it just goes back to competition because like when you're winning everybody's hyped about it, right? So the same thing in power line in the trades like if your project is ahead of schedule, you're producing, you know, company's happy, >> you're usually getting looked after, you know, by your your your GF or your supervisor, whoever's like doing the time sheets, like you're getting an extra hour here, you're getting an extra bump here or there. It just happens, right?

102:24 >> Everyone's happy because you're winning. >> Yep. >> But when you're losing, >> oh yeah, >> sucks. >> Scrutiny. Everybody's watching every nickel, every dime. It's the best. It's the worst. >> And I've been on both ends of those spectrums, even on this last job. So, like I was on the side where we were just killing it, knock it out of the park, and then the job had some hiccups and we were on the other side, and I'm like, I definitely like being on the winning side.

102:48 >> What do you like about working for contractors? >> The freedom. The freedom is unmatched because like, like I said, I was a I was GF on this project. I got laid off right before I got on a plane to come here and I already have other interviews and other job opportunities that I can go sign the books. And it's like you can't get that type of freedom at the utility. I mean, you get perks at the utility, don't get me wrong. It's like you can work at the house. You got a steady 40.

103:17 You don't have to worry about layoffs. But on the contractor side, there's that adrenaline rush where it's like, I want to go do helicopters. I can do that. I want to go do dro. I can do that. I want to go do hairy transmission work in the middle of the desert. I can do that. Like you get to pick what's your level. Where do you want to be? There's it's just an amazing amount of freedom. And if you want to take time off, take two, three months off. Like I I took a two week vacation. I don't need permission.

103:45 If I don't show up, they don't pay me. That's the equation. So take as much vacation as you can afford. And then you can have hobbies. You can you can you can do anything you want on the contractor side as long as you are a productive safe worker. There's always a job somewhere and you can go anywhere in the country. >> So when you were here first we talked a lot about like your tech background and and video games and like that whole >> background and even since the first time you were here you've been working on a tech project.

104:17 I didn't know the questions to ask to intro this project, but let's intro it for the next Yeah. episode. >> Yeah. So, that going back to when you started in the trades, it's not a life sentence. You can pursue other venues, other aspects, other hobbies. I've always been a tech guy. I was trying to be a psychologist when college became no longer an option and I came out here. But like I love tech. I've always been interested in tech and I immediately saw the trade had very archaic systems. And so I started working with a company called Junction out of New Zealand and it's just every time I I would try to find a solution to this one specific problem, it solved another problem over here. and the the program kept expanding to where it's like I just need to find out what's what's important to whoever I'm talking to and this will solve one of those issues. And so I think it's it's a really good story for the youth to see because it's like just because you started off as a trademan swinging hammers and wrenches doesn't mean you have to stay here. You can move into pounding keyboards and working with data security. So, it's like you start in the trades and then you can make a path anywhere you want to go. You could become a podcaster. There's so many opportunities and so many ways to transition in this trade. And I think it heavily goes to being a contractor and having those types of freedoms to pursue these other other projects, other passion projects. And so I'm really looking forward to telling everybody about Junction and what it can do because it's like society as a whole is now reaching for this solution and nobody else has built it and this has been like the brainchild for over a decade for me. So it's like finally the the everybody else has caught up to needing what I've been telling them they need for years. And so that's it's so vindicating. So talk about just as like a just as a hook for it like what is the problem and what is the solution you're kind of creating and we'll get into detail about what it is obviously but like >> give us like what it is.

106:36 >> So to the audience the important bit is going to be like the personal data security. So I call it digital protective equipment and it's like I kind of hearken it back to AIM when it first came out. you were on the internet with no parental guidelines, no nothing. And that's kind of how we deal with data security right now or doing a a sports reference like football. Before they didn't wear any helmets, can you imagine somebody going into the NFL and saying, "I'm not going to wear a helmet." You'd be insane. You'd be laughed off the field. They wouldn't allow you to do it.

107:12 That's basically how the internet looks to me right now. It's like you're out there without a helmet. Everybody else has a helmet, but you don't. and all your data is just out there. And so the the first problem I was trying to solve was the new hire paperwork takes forever. It's annoying. I've never met a lineman who likes to do paperwork. That's why we're out here. And so this solves that issue. And then when you go on Storm, like a lot of these contractors, their trucks aren't up to snuff. So well, I can credentialize people. Why don't I credentialize trucks, too? It's like, oh, cool. So now I can make sure my truck is is properly done. And then you get up to the utility level and it's like they're not checking any of this. They're going off a trust me bro system. I'm like that's terrible.

107:59 So now it's like well this system can help there too. So it's like every time I solve a problem and like move up a level it solves another problem and then solves another problem. And it's like my brain just started going scatter on this and I've just been obsessively thinking about it every night in these hotel rooms while I'm on the road for 100 hours. I've got nothing else to do, no energy to go to the bar and I'm just sitting in my room thinking about this program and how how to make it better, make it for the individual themselves.

108:30 And that's really what it is. It's a it's a way to empower the individual to own their own data. And that's with the advent of AI, your data is the most valuable thing you have. It's more valuable than gold. It's more valuable than oil. And nobody's protecting it. It's just you're just giving it away, which is crazy. >> Stoked to hear more about it. Yeah. Honestly, it sounds like a it sounds really cool because it was it was birthed in the trades, but it goes so much further than that. Like you've been talking recently about, you know, applications like Spotify and the UK like needing to credentialize some ID to prove that the age you are in order to feed you a certain algorithm. Like >> it goes so much past that. So when you start thinking about it, >> and how much are they getting hacked?

109:18 Like my YouTube's been hacked before. It's just, you know, they lost the password or whatever. Now they had my driver's license. That's a terrible idea. >> How many of your guys' Facebook's been hacked? >> Oh yeah, all the time. It's like what are we doing? And you can't trust like the Googles, the Microsofts, the Facebooks. They've already been selling your data. >> They can't give you a solution because >> the reason they're so big is because they sold your data.

109:40 >> Exactly. All of these companies are stealing from you. We can't trust them to build it. So, we have to go find this third party. It's just like the pharmaceutical companies. >> You wouldn't take a drug that wasn't third party tested. Why are we believing people that are not third party tested? It's like this >> once you start thinking about it, you're like, "Oh, duh. Why why doesn't everybody do this all the time?" And again, it goes back to surely somebody's doing this.

110:03 >> Surely this is not how this works. And it's like, nope. This is >> Isn't that cool, though? How there's like there's so much opportunity still. >> People think that, oh, no, that's been done. That's been done. That's been done. >> Just look a little deeper, look a little harder. >> You got to find what's tomorrow's problem. And that's what we're finding. Like AI wasn't a problem three years ago. Nobody knew about it. It wasn't going to take videographers jobs. It wasn't going to replace screen and scripts. Now it is. And it's only getting better, infinitely better, of orders of magnitude. And that's going to keep happening. And so unless we start building safeguards in the opposite for people themselves, we're going to quickly get overran. And like how can you even tell? Like nothing on the internet is real anymore. I can make a video of Donald Trump doing the douge.

110:55 Like that is possible. Very possible. And then you show it to grandma and be like, "Look, he's he's a spry old man. Look at him go." >> It's like I've been got by AI. Like oh that that looks cool. And then you dig deeper and it's like never mind. It's not real. So you can't trust anything on the internet anymore. But we need the internet and we need this trust factor. And that's essentially what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to bring trust back to a trustless system.

111:20 >> Yeah, we just don't get how big it is. I just heard as well yesterday. I was listening to a a YouTube video on the way over here. >> Open AAI just just Open AI itself has something like 80% of the market share for AI. >> It's crazy. >> The biggest downloaded app in the app store since its inception. Like that's just unheard of. Like they're just checking boxes of like unheard of. Yep. >> It's suspected that they could IPO at at a half a trillion >> a half a trillion or more.

111:52 >> Yeah. And everything you put in that box, they're required to store and they can use it against you in a court of law. Like what that is in that's an insane amount of data. And like confidential stuff keeps popping up and they're like this isn't supposed to be in here. How did this get in here? It's like well yeah that's cuz you you released an AI. It had no idea what it was doing to the general public who's going to use it nefariously. It's like, I can spin up fakes like like that. No problem. Fake union ticket, here it is.

112:24 Fake driver's license, no problem. Fake first aid card, here you go. And they're like, oh, we're building in these these safety features to stop AI from doing it. It's like, do you know about do anything mode cuz we can we can turn on damn mode pretty easy. You just threaten it. It's like use a little bit of coercion and this AI will dance any way I want it to and boom now I have I have fakes that you can't tell. And like that's that's just it's going to ruin a lot of things if we don't get ahead of it. And then just even to bring it all the way back home to like our industry, our trade. Well, what does that have to do with us? So if you look at Sam Alman, CEO of Open AI could raise 50 60 60 billion this year.

113:11 >> Yeah. >> What do you think Sam has to build? >> Right. >> Data centers. >> Yep. >> Power lines. >> Exactly. And what is he going to want? >> Infrastructure. >> Data. >> Yeah. >> He wants your data. He wants all the data. Not only for the infrastructure and the data center. He wants to know exactly how long that took, why it took that long, what was used. like they're data hungry. That's that's their bread and butter.

113:34 >> And so, like I said, if we don't start protecting data, like society is going to quickly I mean, we're already at a very have and have not society and it's going to get way worse. This content is completely free. All right? The only thing I'm asking you for is to hit that subscribe button. And I know it's cheesy. I know it's corny. I know every YouTuber asks you to hit that button and you're probably sick and tired of it, but if you like the show and you want to see the show grow, this is the way I prove to the people in charge that it's worth investing in. So, it's pretty simple and it's the price you can pay for me. It's no money. It's just a subscribe. Please hit the subscribe and I appreciate the heck out of you for it.