0:00 [Music] welcome to a new episode of parenting and you with me Dr shaali I can guarantee that so many parents are going to love this episode you know why because we are talking about siblings you got it sibling rivalry so many parents come to me crying crying on their knees Dr shaali I had all these children because I thought we would be a big happy family I thought we would all go on picnic mix together and get along

0:31 and my children would be best friends with each other but instead the reality is is that they hate each other they don't even like each other and they're clawing each other's eyes out and I am losing my mind sound familiar well we're going to be tackling sibling issues in this episode coming up next what would you do if your 3-year-old was kicking biting and screaming at the new baby

1:01 many parents have to deal with siblings what do we do with sibling rivalry I cannot tell you how many clients come to me with this problem in our next story Nathaniel and Alexandra are in the midst of sibling issues their three-year-old is biting kicking screaming and kind of exhibiting dangerous behaviors around their younger one hi Nathaniel and Alexandra welcome welcome so excited to

1:31 have you here and your beautiful family uh is joining you here today yes so tell me what you're struggling with our issue has been a somewhat radical change in Behavior where prior to our younger daughter being born we were having a really love filled time everything felt sweet and perfect in a way we were talking uh to the baby in the belly and everything was great and within

2:03 about a week of her being born we noticed that our older one was exhibiting some very different behaviors namely putting our younger one at risk I hear you let me ask mom mom you are uh you know swaddling your baby you're carrying your young one around I presume you are breastfeeding on command you seem like a very tuned parent who is very attached and connected is that fair

2:34 to say yeah absolutely SP she is that she is okay and before this new baby came I presume you were very Hands-On with your older one and you know the older one was very attached to you yeah she's my best friend yeah she's adorable I see her before me right now so oh look at her the listeners can't see what I'm seeing but right now the older one is hugging the younger one because she's is adorable so here's what happens youall

3:02 are struggling to understand what is this rapid change of behavior right according to you and many parents out there we do our best in preparing our children right we prepare them that hey little babies on its way and talk to the baby in the belly and you think you're doing everything a conscious parent would do but here's the thing what you believe is concrete talking to the baby in the belly which you believe is preparation is not what your young one

3:34 experienced here's how I can break it down for you for the young one talking to a baby in the belly is such an abstract concept they're just going along with it because they're like haha he okay let's talk to this imaginary friend for them it's like an imaginary fiction creative piece like a story like a fairy tale they're not understanding what on Earth Earth is about to descend on their house and in their life you've had nine months and three decades of a

4:09 brain to understand and process your little one is 3 years old she doesn't understand the difference between fiction and reality she thought we're just playing pretend that's what she thought and she was the queen of her queendom it was all about her and here you go then this real literal concrete animal comes out and they're like holy cow I didn't prepare for this and this new person is

4:39 stealing my right to the throne the throne being the mother and just before this young one came I had full access to the throne I was wearing the mini Crown I was the little Queen of the house and now I have been dethroned and pushed aside and I wasn't ready for this and no one told me that this was really for real I thought we were just playing pretend so all the behaviors that you're seeing are so predictable are so on

5:10 point your child is expressing her banishment from the kingdom and she's protesting and because she doesn't have words of course she's trying to swat the Flies right she's like go away little baby you're the little pest she is you know protecting her territory and rightfully so now if parents begin to Mis atune with her very rightful need to

5:41 protect her territory and begin calling her bad and begin favoring the the young one then you create sibling rivalry but if you can use this moment to really understand that she's struggling with you know her new place in this Kingdom she doesn't understand how she's been dethroned and begin to really have compassion for her and understand that she's not using words to express her

6:12 fear she's biting and Kicking and Screaming because that's the level her brain is at then you can really bring her into the team you know make her feel like she's still the queen she's just the older Queen and here's the younger Queen and make her you know really embodi that role of protector an older sibling so if you can look at every expression of her quote unquote negative behaviors as a cry for help then you will enter your heart and have great

6:44 compassion right now between the two the younger one needs you physically but the older one needs you emotionally totally this is very in alignment with how we have treated this situation wonderful so about great conversations with her beforehand letting her know hey when the baby comes we will need you to be more independent and to do other tasks can I just say I don't think that's fair to ask her to be

7:15 more independent it's not her time yet to be more independent in fact she will and does have more needs now than even the baby because the baby needs physical presence and that's how the baby gets soothed but the older one needs our full-on emotional Attunement so I would say give her actually more than you think a three-year-old needs because you're going by chronological age but that's not what her emotional age is her emotional age is still very young so

7:48 it's not fair and that's why they get resentful that's why they actually feel territorial jealousy or possession because they realize hey now I'm suddenly supposed to be a grown up I'm not ready so let's really actually do the reverse of what you were expecting expect less give her more so then she begins to interpret the baby coming as hey I'm actually getting more this is like a showering of abundance rather

8:18 than a withering away of my resources you see yeah we're certainly doing our best to give that abundance and not with the resources we do and some quality time one on-one with her I work out of the home and take breaks from work when she is extra needy excellent one of the issues she loves jumping she's very energetic classic three-year-old loves to play jump off the couch and sometimes

8:49 we set our younger one on a mini couch right next to the couch and she wants to jump over her or jump near her yes yes about her landing on her yes and do our best to create a healthy physical boundary good so that there won't be you know an altercation where she's in pain good good we've also worked on uh there was a very similar issue with me and my brother yes when I was born and so I

9:21 give for some of the stories of when I was a very young baby so that she can empathize with what I was beautiful beautiful but less talking is more effective and I'll show you a way to do exactly what you were trying to do verbally in a physical way let's let's let's put her where the baby normally sleeps and tell her you're the baby and I'm going to be you okay so let her be the baby so now you see you're creating

9:53 empathy in a physical way because words don't land on children they're not literal adults are literal because we're in our left brain L for literal left brain children are in their right brain which is intuitive abstract dreamy and very very physical and and artistic and creative so make her be creative put her in there and go you're going to play the baby and I'm going to be you and then you run all around her and be all

10:19 chaotic and then she's going to be like oh yeah I get it and of course she won't get it in a in a permanent way but that's a better way to create empathy and the other thing I want to tell you you is she's still your baby so you need to give her baby time you need to carry her around you need to swaddle her because every adult around is so enamored with the new baby we forget

10:43 that this little girl is still your baby and treat her like that rather than making her more an adult thank you for those reminders of scold that's a wonderful exercise too we'll definitely try that yeah that's new one for us well I think when when parents have a second child close in age to the older one we immediately expect the older one to suddenly be grown up but what we don't realize is that they want to be babied

11:14 they want to be carried around they want to be nurtured just like the younger one and because we don't give them that they actually regress which is what you're seeing and then they do all these kind of crazy behaviors and they act so quote unquote childish because they're trying to tell the parents hey I still have baby needs still I still need to be soothed and all that baby coochie coo talk is only going to the younger one I

11:42 need it and she's so beautiful that she's so clearly telling you as all children clearly tell us but we don't read the signs I often say you know what are the signs and the signs s i g n stands for something inside gone negative the sign is that something inside is missing and you both seem so attuned so caring but I think you're pitching her too much as the big girl and she's not ready to be a big girl yet

12:12 yeah got it thank you so much speak Lester intellectually and demonstrate more with behaviors very good through the actual doing yes yeah we intend to have more children and wonder if you could give us advice about how to potentially avoid the situation in the future or if there any other tools to better navigate it when it does arise well what I'm about to tell you may seem a little unpopular because I'm not going

12:43 to tell you wow go ahead and have an army what I'm going to tell you is you know go slow and and see how each child adapts and go with their Pace not so much your agenda to have a big family because many of us just get on our train and then we end up with a brood and the younger children displace the older children so fast that the older children Then Fall Apart sure or not at a rush yes good

13:15 because it's a lot as you're seeing every extra child is like adding you know four more children it's exponential it's not a linear growth it's an exponential addition of of stress and chaos yeah but you all seem very attuned and I know everyone is fidgeting now so I'll let you go but thank you so much for joining us we really appreciate your time yeah thank you youall have been awesome thank you so much I'm sure so

13:43 many parents can relate with Nathaniel and Alexandra's story so many of us get so perplexed by how our children treat their siblings I mean sibling rivalry is one of the top concerns of parents who come to visit me in therapy we feel like we need to jump in we need to play a referee we don't know how to handle the explosion of emotions especially from our older children we expect them to

14:14 behave differently and without our realizing by pushing our older siblings into greater responsibility and greater accountability the older sibling begins to feel jealous they feel rivalry they feel as if the younger sibling is getting all the favored treatment even though that is not our intention so I always tell parents like I did with Nathaniel and Alexandra that be mindful of how you treat the older one the older

14:45 one is feeling displaced the older one is feeling like a culture shock in their system in their family system they're not prepared for the invasion of these younger siblings and now they're being told that they have to share the resources namely their primary caregivers they have to share the food the clothes the space but mostly and most importantly their parents attention

15:16 and this is where everything unravels because when a child feels as if what was rightfully theirs namely their parents undivided attention is now being compromised that's where the emotional needs of the older ones feel neglected and the older child begins to cry out in pain but many of our children don't know actually many of us adults don't know how to ask for our emotional needs to be

15:46 met in mature ways most of us temper tantrum we yell we scream we eat too much well our young ones are no different so when we see our older siblings you know the older children lose their temper act out become Moody and distracted we parents need to interpret these as signs something inside gone negative the acronym s i GN can help us to realize that we need to

16:17 pay attention to our children's inner emotional needs so that's one of the key ingredients in helping quote unquote solve sibling RI rivalry understand what the older child needs how do I meet the older child's needs and recruit them on my team to help me with the younger ones but if you discard the older one and just expect them to behave immaculately they are actually going to do the opposite

16:48 regress and act out coming up next a couple who is in the middle of sibling rivalry between their two young boys I don't think there's a bigger trigger for us parents than watching our children fight with each other you know many of us had extra children you know additional children for that fantasy that our children will get along and they will be best friends and they will be so happy together when we die and

17:20 then when we see them clawing each other's eyes out we have a panic attack joining me now is Mariana and Sergio they are in the middle of sibling rivalry with their six-year-old and three-year-old and they're here to talk about it hi guys thank you for joining me tell me Mariana what is it that is the problem so my older one used to be very I used to have a lot of fights with him I used to get very angry at him and and

17:51 not have the patience because we don't we didn't have any connection but then I started having some connection with him and the younger one started started the outburst and the um tantrums and and getting very jealous of my connection with the older one okay so Mariana what kind of parent were you in the first few years of your oldest son's life were you calm or were you a fighter kind of parent I think the fighter in me has

18:19 always been there two years after I had him I I discovered that I had uh postpartum depression so I was very present with him but with everyone else in life I was very absent and like not not there he was the only thing I looked up to so so then how did you go from that to being disconnected to him you said you were disconnected to him later because when he's one and two he really doesn't do that much and he didn't

18:50 really do anything to make me like this fighter part of me like come out right so then when he turns three and four and five you became a fighter parent with him yeah and and then you used to judge him as the bad one yes yes okay and then how did it switch and now the younger one you feel acts like he feels like the bad one I don't think he feels like the bad one but he feels like the neglected one in

19:19 that moment in I don't know five 10 minutes that I'm connecting with the older one the younger one is everywhere throwing things and like yeah if we're building a Lego or something like that he will come and just destroy it all and when that happens what happens to you when you see them fighting with each other what gets triggered inside you I feel anger okay very very clear to see that okay Sergio what do you feel I feel

19:50 frustrated okay very good now Mariana when you feel anger what do you do with that anger typically when you're being unconscious okay typically I will scream to the one that is um doing the hitting and I will say like you shouldn't be doing that um and go to the younger one to hold him and and I usually tell that the one that's hitting that whatever the reason is for him hitting hitting is not the op the option and Serio what do you do when

20:20 you feel frustrated um I usually um do the same like uh you know the one that's hitting I usually it's the one that I go to and tell him they're going to be brothers you know Forevers you get angry you show your anger you play referee you make one kid the bad kid one kid the good kid you go protect the good kid and does this help or does it just continue on and on yeah it continues on and on exactly I

20:49 always tell parents that it's hard when you have two siblings to not go and protect the weaker one and to not go and yell at the one who's hitting so what you're seeing between your siblings the children is very normal sibling rivalry what they really fighting for is their place in the world they're fighting for their rights to their mother really they're fighting for the hierarchy who is on top of the totem pole all of these

21:19 things are quite natural especially in the same sex siblings so number one right is to become aware of your anger issues and number two to realize that you have begun playing referee so much that your children are angry at the other sibling because the other sibling gets them into trouble so when you react with anger and frustration you come at them with the same energy that they had toward the other you see you are

21:51 mirroring the same energy and you're expecting them to stop so you do see that right and it's so typical in US parents right we scream at our children stop hitting your brother but we but we are yelling and screaming and out of control that doesn't change the reason why he's hitting you see in fact it makes it worse what's the typical effect if somebody's yelling you yell so two people are now yelling and two people out of control so then we yell louder to

22:22 be seen and heard and all of us parents do that right if one kid throws an arrow the the parent throws a grenade we have to do the opposite so when somebody's at a 10 we have to do the opposite even though it's so hard to do we have to get in at a negative - 10 to bring them calmly down now do you see how you've been doing the exact opposite yeah yeah yes so let me ask you

22:50 Mariana when you get angry what do you think your anger is achieving what is it getting you no nowhere nowhere nowhere nowhere but in that moment it's helping you release your stress isn't it in the moment yeah in the moment where I'm where where I feel that anger I feel like I I have to like I have to say it because if I don't say it this will escalate something else and it doesn't even cross my mind in

23:20 that moment what something else to do exactly exactly but I love what you're saying because every parent has that commentary if I don't scream right now it's going to get worse so let me scream and then it gets worse and then we wonder why we're in this cycle and no one knows how to stop it so in the same way like you can't stop it you think a six-year-old can stop it you think a three-year-old can stop it so if Mommy

23:48 and Daddy are not regulated how do we expect the children to be regulated so I often use This Acronym Peace p e a c e right we all want peace so I'm going to teach you a technique put it on your fridge and practice it so P stands for pause right you just said I don't even think to pause it just vomits out of my body so do you want your three-year-old and your six-year-old to learn how to

24:11 pause I would put the letter P everywhere in the house and everybody practice every single day you know Sergio you're the dad you can say okay we're all going to practice the P everybody pause and teach them to freeze like the freeze game you are learning learning to interrupt that anger to interrupt that aggression number two the letter e stands for executive functioning so your children do not have the brain yet to to create that calm to

24:45 create that order look at you even you Mariana you said I don't know how to stop I don't know how to pause I don't know how to organize they're yelling because like all children don't have strong executive functioning so you have to remember that not that they're bad but they don't know how a stands for attune you know I always talk about ATT tuning to our children because I I think of our children as ATT tuning fork which

25:15 means that they start vibrating if we start vibrating so if you can pay attention to your tune to your inner language to your anger you can calm down and then they like a tuning fork will slowly come to your level but if you're not ATT tuned and careful and regulated everybody is exploding c p a c c is always give your children creative

25:45 choices so in the moment Mariana instead of just saying stop it or you Serge you're saying I'm going to give you a timeout that is not giving them a choice so you have to say I I understand you're angry you're really upset that your brother took your toy okay let's think what can we do about it can we ask him nicely or can we play with another toy or can Mommy try to get the toy back

26:11 just by pausing and giving them choices not by just telling them don't do something but by actually giving them choices you are helping them activate their thinking skills you're teaching them to activate like oh I can problem solve I'm not a bad kid mommy's not angry with me Mommy's my partner helping me to problem solve and then the last e is emotional regulation if you both parents are angry and yelling and

26:43 raising your voice you don't have emotional regulations so you will never have peace first the parent has to be calm so you have to breathe you have to practice how to enter your present moment be calm meditate and then then you can go to your children so P stands for pause e stands for executive functioning a stands for Attunement C stands for Creative choices e stands for emotional regulation if you want peace in the house practice this and that way

27:15 you are going to get off the hamster wheel so Mariana out of all the five things you know pausing executive skills Attunement creative choices and emotional regulation which one do you think is going to be the hardest for you I think the hardest for me is is the pause I can most of the times but the the like that time where I can't is the pause that gets me that is the hardest one that's why it's the first one in the

27:43 whole list if we cannot pause we are actually giving into our our emotional brain right our lower brain it's called and we're not using the higher brain so how will our children learn to use their higher brain if they're not seeing us use our higher brain so the next time your child is acting out instead of panicking yelling think to yourself how can I teach my child executive skills ah I'm going to

28:16 have to pause I'm going to have to be calm I'm going to have to give choices do you want to teach them or do you want to just yell at them right that's the opportunity here Sergio what do you think think is going to be the hardest thing for you also the P because when you know you can feel the anger just go and like you said it vomit outs of you and you don't even think it's just like

28:41 reaction and you don't you don't you don't have the skills to communicate anymore with the children no you don't it's worse because they won't communicate with you so it's just like you said the hamster will and you can't get off exactly so your children are fighting with each other because that is normal sibling Behavior but if the parents don't learn to manage their feelings and they go in and be referee and call one kid the bad kid and one kid

29:11 the good kid you are making the problem worse you have to reframe it nobody's bad they are just lacking the skills just like I am so pause everybody and go freeze let's practice each one of you take a deep breath right teach them to calm down in the moment okay now a you tell me what you think happened and you listen to them and then you go B now you tell me what you think happened and then

29:40 you go okay let's put on our thinking hats and make choices how can we create a solution and you can practice Building Solutions in that moment but if everyone is just losing their temper then no one is really thinking so when you move forward from now on remember lower brain or upper brain where am I going to live and if you're living in the lower brain well that's what's going to happen to your children as well thank you both of you for

30:10 joining me such a pleasure really appreciate it thank you you too thank you I'm sure so many of you parents could relate to that last story you have young children as it is toddlers can be so frustrating so timec consuming so overwhelming they emotions are all over the map and then put sibling rivalry on top of that and you have a combustible home situation so it's quite likely that most parents will be losing their minds

30:40 and if you are caught in the storm of sibling rivalry you have to remember that part of this is a very natural and organic process of the child's development of course they're going to rival with each other of course they're going to be in each other's face and space but how you react to the sibling rivalry is the key and if you find yourself playing referee or being the judge or the

31:11 scorekeeper and constantly pitting one against the other you are only making it worse the most important thing with sibling rivalry is number one first hope that they will work it out themselves don't jump into rescue and fix and at any given notice no wait hold yourself back but if you've had sibling issues in your childhood it may be hard for you to watch them go at each other so I understand but the best thing a parent

31:40 can do is hope and help the children to deal with the sibling issues themselves number two are you regulated are you coming to the siblings with calm or are you constantly aggressive and angry and volatile well that not going to help anyone and then lastly are you in your higher brain like I said we have this lower more primitive emotional brain where we are impulsive where we are impetuous where we are reactive and

32:12 volatile but then when we begin using higher brain skills of emotional regulation of offering choices of taking a pause now we teach our children to model after us so siblings listen they can get anyone into a tizzy when they fight with each other it feels like you are constantly having to put out fires I understand but siblings at the end of the day will model how you are with them and they will eventually learn to get

32:44 along when they see that you are not playing referee see the thing that gets siblings triggered the most is when they feel that the parent favors one child over the other so check yourself pay attention to your triggers manage your own expectations and calm the hell down because your children need that from you this is the art of conscious parenting if you learned a lot from this episode and this helped you with your sibling rivalry issues then share it with others

33:16 who are suffering in the same way don't forget to subscribe leave a review and I will see you on the next episode of parenting and you with me Dr shaali parenting and you with Dr shaali is for educational and informational purposes only it is not intended as a substitute for professional medical psychological psychotherapeutic coaching health care or other qualified professional advice diagnosis or treatment