Elon promises UNSUPERVISED self driving by year's end, but Einride has L4 autonomy for trucks TODAY

0:04 [music] >> You're tuned in to Quick Charge, the high-voltage podcast bringing you the top stories in electric vehicles and sustainable energy daily. >> [music] >> And it's all powered by Electrek. Welcome to Quick Charge. It is May 19th, 2026, and I'm your host, Joe Boris. Before we get too far into it, I just want to remind you that today's episode is sponsored by GM Energy. Smart energy features are no longer just a luxury, they are a necessity, and one in four homes experience power outages each year. From grid shut-offs to extreme weather, many homeowners are looking for new ways to stay powered on and connected. Fortunately, home energy systems can offer resilience, style, and sustainability benefits in one package, and a power outage no longer means that you have to put your life on pause. GM EV owners can now use the GM Energy Home System to beat the blackout. The advanced system allows vehicle-to-home capable Chevy, Cadillac, or GMC EVs to store energy in their batteries, and when needed, supply electricity back into the home, keeping the essentials running and your sanity in check during an outage. If you really want to [clears throat] experience more resilience and control over your energy use, the GM Energy Home System adds stationary battery power for always-ready backup energy for your home. The GM Energy Powerbank takes in energy from the grid and stores it for when you need it most. Learn more at gmenergy.gm.com.

1:32 We'll have more and a link to that in the show notes as well at electrek.co. And whenever you see a episode that is sponsored by GM Energy, instead of seeing Quick Charge by Electrek, you're going to see this, Quick Charge by GM Energy. Thanks so much to those guys for sponsoring the show. Moving on, we're calling today's show the delivery episode, not necessarily because of Amazon and their massive delivery network, but because certain promises are about to get delivered on, including this one. Musk says Tesla's unsupervised full self-driving will be widespread in the US by year end again. And guys, this time I am so confident that it will be different like the last nine times that he said this, that he specifically said by the end of this year, when he said that in 2016, 17, 18, all of those, I think this time will be different. Elon Musk claims that Tesla's unsupervised full self-driving will be widespread in the US by the end of this year, despite the fact that it's not even widespread in Austin, Texas, which is you know, a rain-free, snow-free, sleet-free, fog-free type of town and can barely get it to work there. This is the latest in a decade-long pattern of Musk promising imminent autonomous driving breakthroughs that failed to materialize. Here's another one that might actually materialize though, if only because it's stupid and dangerous.

2:57 Tesla's increasing the actually smart summon speed by 33% in its new full self-driving update. So, yeah, this thing that is five or four or 10 or 20, depending on who you believe, times more likely to crash than a human driver, we're going to make it 33% faster in a parking lot. All of this sounds great and if you're one of those attorneys who's going after Tesla, you just have to be salivating at this prospect. But hey, we're going to move on. We're going to not talk about Tesla, which is something I promised to do, but those last two things were way too funny. There are several other companies that are delivering on their EV promise.

3:34 One of them is BMW. They are launching a plan to help keep the brand young and enable more people to experience the ultimate driving machine. They're doing that by launching a less expensive, more affordable one series EV. We're really excited to see that, but they're not alone. Jeep maker Stellantis reveals plans for a new groundbreaking EV that will start at under $18,000. Hopefully, that is an all-new Dodge Neon, which I have been campaigning for for a long time. And uh you know what? I'm going to include some show notes over to my Dodge Neon posts over at electrek.co. And Volvo recently canceled their EX30. That was a car that quick charge and electrek really, really loved. We awarded that the EV of the year last year. Volvo took that away from us because of the tariffs. Great news, they are bringing a new EV to the US to replace that $35,000 EX30, and it's going to be affordable, fast, fun, and of course, being Volvo, safe. We're very excited about that as well.

4:35 Now, moving on to the more literal concept of delivery, Amazon is deploying these massive cargo e-bikes for deliveries around Washington, D.C. Amazon is officially rolling out e-cargo bike deliveries in Washington as part of a new pilot program launched in partnership with the District Department of Transportation. The 10-month initiative called Micro Freight D.C. will see Amazon delivery service partners making neighborhood deliveries using a fleet of battery-powered cargo bikes instead of traditional delivery vans. These cargo bikes, bikes used in quotation marks, use electric bicycle drive trains and include pedals with a pedal by wire system common in three-and-four-wheeled cargo bikes that translates the user's pedal power into forward motion with an electric motor.

5:21 Amazon says the concept has already proven itself in cities around the world, especially in dense urban cores where delivery stops are clustered close together. Rather than sending large vans into crowded neighborhoods, packages are brought to smaller, local micro hubs where cargo bikes handle the final leg delivery. And while the idea may still feel novel in the US, cargo bike logistics have become increasingly common in Europe with companies like DHL, UPS, FedEx, and of course Amazon having all experimented with or expanded cargo bike delivery operations in cities where curb space is limited and vehicle congestion slows traditional vans to a crawl. And while that's exciting in and of itself in the last mile delivery sense, the middle mile is also critically important for Amazon and recently they inked a deal with Swedish autonomous company Einride to scale their electric semi fleet deployment across that middle mile logistics with fully 75 new electric classic semi trucks getting deployed across five US locations. And that of course brings me to today's guest. We've got the CEO of Einride. I recorded this on Friday. Here it is now edited for your convenience.

6:36 All right, my guest today is Robert Charlie. He is the CEO of Einride. Robert, we are big big fans of the work you're doing not only with automation. I think you guys are the first L4 automated heavy trucks currently in operation in Europe. I think that puts you way ahead of everybody else. We were just at the ACT Expo this week where you announced a huge charging deal in North America with Greenlane in both California and Texas. That's very impressive and of course you recently signed that freight deal that middle mile deal with Amazon Freight. You guys are obviously electric but firing on all cylinders regardless. You're doing a really great job. Thanks for being on the show.

7:17 Thank you so much. Thanks so much for the kind words and and great to be here. When Einride first came out on the market and we all kind of first became aware of what you guys were doing, there was this driverless cab concept that looked like it was straight out of Star Wars. More recently we've seen some conventional trucks, human driven trucks on the road, but you're still pushing towards that autonomous vision. Is that correct? That's very much correct. And I think we've had this, you know, the the a very similar vision from from from the get-go. And and the idea with starting off with the autonomous vehicles, right?

7:52 When we when we launched the company and and and and and we sort of launched the first vehicle format back in 2017. You know, the idea was let's start with the end state. Let's start with how we visualize that the end state of of of this transition will will will look. And then from our perspective, it'll be vehicles that are electric, it'll be vehicles that are autonomous, that are cabless. We take the driver out of the vehicle from from from from day one. And that's where we sort of started off. And then we started building. So, if that is the future, right? And and the future is going to be driven in that direction due to that due to the unit economics in the market, that's going to be the cheapest way of doing doing transportation. If that's the case, then what are the all the different parts and how do you build a, you know, technology strategy, commercial strategy, and and sort of a rollout plan with with customers to work towards that towards that the sort of future state of our transportation. That was the vision, you know, in when the company was was was founded.

8:52 And that's what we've been executing on and and and sort of visualizing how the autonomous vehicles will will look and then putting them into operations, putting our electric vehicles into operations, all coordinated by our AI AI plat And it's important to note also that this is not a theoretical thing that you guys are going to do in the future. This is not vaporware. You have almost a hundred million dollars in signed contracts. You have 30 customers in seven countries. You've done nearly half a million completed shipments and you've covered more than 15 million all electric miles. And you're for a lot of people still getting started. This might be the first time some readers have ever heard of you. No, you we're We're a we're not a size project.

9:36 I we we we've been We've been We still found the company was founded back in 2016. We went live with our first customer already back in 2020. Uh we did our first autonomous pilot in 2019 being the first in the world to put a cabless autonomous vehicle on the on public road and we've been at it since then scaling with our customers, gathering in the data, understanding their networks, and gradually gradually scaling our platform and our and our offering uh together together with our customers. And as you said, you know, we've got about 50 million dollars of of of ARR hitting hitting the books, the 92 million of of in contracts. And in addition to that, which, you know, speaking about scaling, right? We have We have got about 800 million dollars of potentially ARR in our joint business plans, which are those scaling plans that we set together with our customers that we're scaling towards with them. So so and and we're doing it in a good pace. We're talking now about trucking, about logistics, about transportation. There is more to Einride than what is happening there in the surface. I don't know how much of this you can talk about, how much of this you feel comfortable talking about, but you are also in the defense industry. Can you give us a little bit of information about that, as much as you think might be interesting to us?

10:53 No, I absolutely you know so so uh when we built our autonomous software stack, the Einride driver essentially that that that we we took that stack and we put it into our autonomous cabless vehicles and we deployed that with with customers. You know, we're deploying our deployed our customers and we're continuing to develop that technology. Um about 12 months ago or so we decided to launch what we call the vehicle agnostics software platform essentially allowing us to take that autonomous driving stack out of our vehicles and and and putting them into use with with completely different sets of of of vehicles having in mind, you know, defense applications, dual-use applications, and and and and sort of specialized civilian applications. And we've since then, uh, you know, continued, uh, piloting with with our, uh, taking autonomous driving stack, putting it into different forms of vehicle within the within the defense space. We just recently announced the appointment of of General Keith Alexander, who's a former four-star general, uh, to our to our board of directors to really help us now to really start scaling that, uh, scaling that business and putting our technology to good use within within the defense sector as well. I see this kind of technology, especially at the level four state where you guys are, uh, which again, I still believe is unique. I tried to do some research and find some other things. I think you guys are are way ahead on this, kind of objectively.

12:19 There are other applications, you know, city transit, urban transit, bus routes that are fairly predictable. Uh, as ridiculous as it sounds, like, you know, theme park trams and things like that that follow certain routes, airport trams, luggage delivery, even mining operations. Are you looking into those fields as well, or are you taking this very, uh, let's say, one vertical at a time? So, no, that's an excellent excellent question, right? And and and you're absolutely right that, you know, there are there are endless opportunities when it comes to automating road-borne vehicles of different sizes, formats, and and and and use cases. And and a lot of them will have similarities in the technology that is that is required, the environments in which they operate are will be similar. I think our approach has been, you know, we're we're focused on our freight capacity as a service offering, which is, you know, starting, uh, where we started off essentially where when it came to our autonomous, uh, autonomous transportation and its own technology, uh, point-to-point, shorter distances back and forth together, uh, and and on on high high asset utilization, uh, routes in relatively controlled environments. and then we're scaling that into into we scale it into public roads where where continue to scale that in in civilian applications. So, we are you know, looking into and evaluating some of those a few of those that you mentioned. I think what is important for us is to at the same time you know, not lose focus on the the um, the the what what that technology is to achieve. So, as long as there's an overlap, you know, you can have the same type of ODD and same same type of use case but but being used in different you know, for different purposes uh, and and we try to focus on purposes where we see that there's a big overlap in the product development technology development so we can use our technology broadly across those different across the use cases but you know, not losing focus on what we're what we're trying to do. I think that's a great point because so many companies reach a certain stage of viability and then you know, the website explodes, they get they stand up on a stage at a conference and they start talking about 55 different things that their technology and software and hardware can do and then you sort of get the sense that they've lost that sense of focus or that it's sort of a diversion. Now, you I think that reach focus is very as you said that I think that focus is very important right? Because it is is there are so endless many possibilities but you you know, automating transportation irrespective of which environment and which which which which vehicle format you're doing it is a complex endeavor right? And it's about much more than just just automating the point-to-point transportation. It's about the operational setup, the operational you know, all the the interactions with the infrastructure surrounding etc. So, you need to have that uh, a certain focus and and that's you know, what we're trying to make sure that that we that we maintain at all times. Well, yeah, for sure. And and we've seen that over and over again in this industry in the last 10 years, right? When you make the comment interacting with the infrastructure around you, there are some automation companies, automation plays that are trying to put everything in the car or in the truck. I've always had this idea that communicating with the 5G towers, communicating with the other buildings, even communicating with the other vehicles on the road is an essential piece of true autonomy, level four, level five autonomy. As kind of the only company that has that level four tech operating on public roads in Europe, how do you feel about that statement and how do you within Nride view that kind of 5G citywide infrastructure? Well, and and you know, I think the the um as I said, automating transportation is about so much more, right? And and the points that you're raising are excellent examples of that, right? Interactions between the vehicle uh uh when you don't have a driver in the vehicle, right? They have an autonomous system that needs to be able to interact with uh uh uh other vehicles in in in in traffic, for example. It needs to be able to uh um connect to or or or at least interact with loading loading base, for example. We did just recently did a pilot where we showcased our the platform's ability to do an automated border crossing, for example, when we piloted crossing the border between Sweden and Norway. Like, so you have so many of these things and automatic loading and offloading, for example, automatic charging over time. So, so and that that entire ecosystem needs to be built up in in in you know, in parallel to us and and others building up the network of of automated automated transportation. And and the way that we have approached this from from the get-go and and it goes sort of in line with how we, you know, what I would call a a sort of pragmatic approach to to that.

17:09 Like, you you see where the end state needs to be, but you can't wait for the end state before you get started. You have to get started at at some point and then work towards that towards that towards that end state. So, as an example, right? We do we we have four 4G appliances in in in in the US, for example, where we're both deployed our manually driven electric trucks, but also autonomous autonomous vehicles. We focused on a few let's automate the back and forth transportation between the production and the distribution distribution center. We've done done in other locations, we've done trials with automated loading and offloading for example. We've done trials with which technology should we be using for automated charging.

17:50 And then gradually you start scaling that into your network and into you know, the full operational setup to over time reach a point where you have a fully automated chain from end point to end point. But but you you you know, you need to get there over time and in order to get there you need to have the operational understanding. So, that's also you know, why we chosen this gradual scaling approach. That's a fantastic answer, frankly. Uh you know, I don't know how much of this we can talk about, but I'm just going to put it out there as a contextual thing and not ask you anything specific about it, but you know, you you have your IPO, I believe, coming up. I think that from the time it was first announced, there was an administration change in the US or seemed to be an administration change of sentiment towards electrification and decarbonization throughout North America, which kind of diminished took a little bit of the shine off of that IPO.

18:46 Now with everything going on in the Middle East and some people, depending on who you believe, it's going to be months or years before that oil and fuel capacity comes back, the kind of supply catches up again with demand. Now an electrification play seems a lot more viable, a lot more financially fiscally attractive than perhaps it did three or four months ago. Do you see more interest in recent weeks in the work that you've been doing. Do you see more excitement about it or has it been relatively stable? So you know, I think electrification already when we started you know, has from our perspective it's always been if you're going to reach a scaling of electric electrification right not not just doing a a few units here and there. If you're going to reach a point where you're actually scaling electrification of transportation customers, it's going to have to be about cost and that's been our that's been our you know, mantra if you will all along that the unit economics is going to have to decide the pace in which and and and and you have to you know, the the ticket to play on the market if you will is to be cost efficient versus the the incumbent diesel solution that you're that you're essentially competing competing as I think you know, cost has always been a driver for for for the transition and what you know, the sentiment in the market and and the relative price between diesel and electric or or the existence of subsidies for example and other things but they do is they affect that you know, that sort of the economics of the unit economics of of the one versus versus the other and of course that fluctuates over time you know, as you said with energy prices and so on. So so you know, but the overall trend that we're seeing in the in the market is heightened and and increasing interest in electrification both in the US and Europe because you're starting to see the hardware coming to a point where where you know, you can be cost efficient in in in the [clears throat] execution. You're starting to see the build out of charging infrastructure being at a critical point where where where you know, where you can do that. So So a lot of these factors are all playing in our I would say you know, giving us good good sort of tailwinds in in in electrification but then so you know, we're at a point now I would say that where it's no longer so much a question of you know, uh availability of hardware for example which was the question 3 years ago, right? Now, it's much more about do you have the capability and the software and the understanding to be able to plan and execute electric transportation in a way such that you can benefit from the fact that the underlying principle, right?

21:25 Electric electric is cheaper per miles driven, but you have an asset that you need to have a high asset uptime of. So, so that's where, you know, our platform comes in and our AI models in our platform comes in and allows us to do that. And what what definitely what we're seeing in the market is that the other factors are really lining up in in a way so that, you know, both interest from customers, but also our ability to deliver cost-efficiently is is improving continuously and and we're really seeing that, you know, that comes through in in our scaling with customers. Hey, you said two things that are that are very interesting and I recognize we're coming to the end of our time coming here, so I'll make this as quick as I can. You mentioned subsidies, you mentioned the sort of lack of federal subsidies and the way that that plays into that cost-benefit analysis that fleets are making and clients are making, right? When you look at states like California with HVIP where they have six-figure rebates for Class 8 trucks and you look at other states like Illinois and Florida that have similarly large rebates, but not similar levels of adoption, do you think it's a question of allocation? Do you think it's politics? What could a state like Illinois or a state like New York do to kind of attract more N Ride business in the same way that California and Texas are doing? So so I think, you know, subsidies is one part of the equation.

22:47 And and and to me, they're also a temporary part, right? What they're doing is that they're, you know, they've historically have bridged the gap in in in the cost basis of an electric truck versus or electric hardware versus versus non-electric hardware. And we're getting to a point where, you know, where that is, uh you know, that balancing is is starting to happen even even if you discount, you know, we're active in a in a number of states where there there are no subsidies and we're still able to through the deployment of our platform and and AI model still be able to operate in a cost-efficient way despite the absence of of of subsidies.

23:22 So, so these subsidies are a a part especially in accelerating, right? Over a short period or or catalyzing, if you will, that and that will happen. But that's that's one part of it. And then you have to make sure, you know, that that the the sort of the transportation networks, the build-up of those in those in those particular particular locations, the energy access to the build-out of charging infrastructure and and build and access to grid capacity, for example, etc. So, there's a number of factors that plays in, but I think a, you know, a good catalyst is always is always, of course, you know, helping bridge that initial investment required for for build-out of charging infrastructure. And finally, last question. I ask this question of most of my guests. I obviously have a very different view of Enride than you do, right? You have the 30,000-ft view.

24:10 You see everything that's going on. What is a question that you wish more people would ask you that Enride has a really great answer for? I think, you know, uh it goes back to you kind of asked the question or around, you know, what is what is the key factor that will help accelerate, you know, the the electrification of of of of transportation and and and over time also the the the automation of transportation. And my answer to that, which we, you know, spoke a little bit about earlier, is, you know, we're past the point where where it's a predominantly hardware type of of issue.

24:50 We're now at a point where, you know, the the the the software platforms and and your ability to build out a a highly efficient transportation network regardless if you're operating that with or without driver autonomous or non autonomously because that is over time going to be the absolute key in in terms of being cost competitive in this market is how efficient of a network can you can you build and I think we have a you know we have a a unique position in that in that market. Yeah, I totally agree. I think that was a great answer. Again, CEO of Enride Roosebeh Charlie. Enride.tech is the website. Definitely go check out what these guys are doing. And man, what a fantastic interview. Thank you so much for doing this. And anytime you want to do this again, let me know. We'll book you on the show. Absolutely. Thank you so much and great for thanks so much for having me.

25:42 All right. Once again, that was Roosebeh Charlie. He was an absolutely great guest. So, thanks to Roosebeh for that. And finally, we've got one more affordable EV story. Costco has announced a new stackable discount on the 2027 Chevy Bolt. Eligible Costco members who purchase or lease a new Chevy Bolt EV can receive $1,250 if they're executive members and $1,000 off for Gold Star and Business members. This is of course on top of whatever price you negotiate at the dealership. Chevy's financing incentives on the table at the moment include low APR and payment deferral for qualified buyers. Military active duty retirees and veterans get an extra $1,000 off and states also include incentives that are stackable. The 2027 Chevy Bolt features a lithium iron phosphate battery that delivers an EPA estimated range of 262 miles. It is available in LT and RS trims starting at 28,995 and 32,995 respectively. And of course, being one of GM's Ultium platform batteries, it is fully compatible with our sponsor today, GM Energy. While the Chevy BrightDrop GMC Hummer EV and hand-built ultra-lux Celestiq were once the exceptions to the rule, now every current GM EV can send the energy stored in its battery back to its home through the GM Energy Home system, one of the most fully integrated EV and battery backup plus solar options in the business. Definitely go check that out as well. We'll have a link to that in the show notes here and over at Electrek.co. Be sure to like and subscribe so you don't miss tomorrow's episode.