⁠The Real Reason Elon Wants SpaceX and Tesla to Merge Now

0:00 Honestly, who's using PHP? This is why, by the way, all of your regional banks shall be hacked. >> Wait, so where should everyone put their money? Like JP Morgan? >> No, Britt, in the ground. There've been periods in the last year where I have access to frontier models that are not public, and it's really crazy. The differential between the feeling of using these things and what everybody's talking about on the internet, there's like a wild gap, and I don't even have access to the true frontier.

0:25 >> That demo was literally just someone they were like, "Hey, can two engineers like help us justify merging these companies by sticking some rockets on a car?" >> Exactly. We'll never ship that. It's probably like the car was probably just like a rocket shaped like a car. >> But Sam, it's genius, come on. >> It's hilarious. >> >> Why, hello, friends. Welcome to More or Less. Another week.

1:09 >> Back at it. >> How's everyone doing? Back at it. >> Let's go. >> Whoa, Dave is energized after being sick last week. >> Yeah, I was so sick last week. I'm sorry, dear listener. >> No, you don't have to apologize, but how's the nasal I got so many nasal rinse comments. >> Back with a vengeance. >> Oh, can I talk about nasal rinses real fast? I'm sure everyone would love us to. Yes. >> I don't want to think about your nasal rinse.

1:32 >> I got into nasal rinses with an LP. >> Oh my god. >> We were debating AstaPro versus Profi, p r o f i. >> I don't even know what either of these things are. >> I do off-the-shelf DoorDash. >> All right. AstaPro is what a lot of people swear by. It's for like cleansing your nasal passages. It's just like a little shooter that you spray in your nose. But Profi, p r o f i, is the better version to use. It actually blocks the passageway for flu >> Neti pot.

1:58 >> No, for flu germs and and cold germs. >> No, neti pot. >> Okay, just listener, you can do your own research. >> Go the ancient wisdom way. >> Here's what we're going to do, folks. We are going to blast through two updates. We need bot updates and peptide updates. After that, we are going to get into some of the meat of the moment. We need to talk SpaceX Tesla merger. We need to talk what's going on at Netflix. We should probably talk about the widespread PHP vulnerability discovered by OpenAI.

2:31 >> Who uses PHP anymore? Is it 2006? It turns out everyone. It's like all STILL PHP. >> I'M GLAD we don't. >> Save your comments, gentlemen. >> No, we could start there. We'll start there. >> Honestly, who's using PHP? >> Well, doesn't Facebook still compile to PHP in some crazy ass way? >> Really? >> I don't know. There's a whole They spend like billions of dollars figuring out how to like do crazy advanced stuff that all just like >> We did all kinds of stuff in the old days to compile PHP into C++ and like machine code. Yeah.

3:04 >> I guess the question is where the vulnerability is. But like this is where we get to learn how out of date a bunch of websites are. >> Pretty much. Yes. This is exactly what happened. >> This is why, by the way, all of your regional banks shall be hacked. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, take your money out. >> This is Sam's thesis coming true. >> Wait, so where should everyone put their money? Like JP Morgan? >> No, Britt, in the ground.

3:25 >> Under your mattress, in Bitcoin. >> At least Bitcoin's been being attacked continuously for 15 years. So like there's something I mean like the things that are going down are the things that are like written in PHP from 100 years ago that no one's bothered to attack. And now it's like, "Oh, I can one-line attack all those things and take them down." It's going to be mayhem. >> That OpenAI had discovered this vulnerability actually leaked, prompting them to then announce they had discovered the vulnerability with the patch. So, that's something. I hear there are other apparently system-wide vulnerabilities they have found.

4:00 >> Of course there are. >> Of course there are. B, this is the best marketing for these frontier models that one could imagine. >> Why? >> There's a new one every two weeks. There's the hugging face thing. There's the PHP hack. >> It's the boy that cried wolf at this point. What should I care about? Here's the funny thing about these leaks. It's the same thing where like there was a rumors around town forever that OpenAI had like done all this like math research and was withholding it after the first paper announcement went so badly. The funny thing for me is like what is the backlog that's being held in private? It's basically zero days that now private companies are holding and they're like, "Ooh, we shouldn't tell anyone about these." But the fact they have them and internally people know about them is kind of wild, too, right?

4:41 >> Yeah, that's wild, too. I agree. That's an interesting issue, yeah. >> It's kind of like imagine that like you found the skeleton key to like all this and you're like, "Don't tell anyone we have the skeleton key, right?" And like, okay, you know, like it's like an interesting social dynamic at this point, too. >> That's the whole thing, right? I mean, that's also the thing with the power of the models in general. In my experience, there have been periods in the last year where I have access to frontier models that are not public. And it's really crazy. The differential between the feeling of using these things and what everybody's talking about on the internet. There's like a wild gap. And I don't even have access to the true frontier. I can't even imagine what it's like being on the true frontier.

5:21 >> For what it's worth though, I think this is partially why there's been so many product issues building in the AI world. You remember like day when we worked at Meta, which was called Facebook, and like we'd have all these features and things that didn't exist yet. And you completely lost track of what consumers were actually experiencing. Like there's this whole problem associated with this about like how do you develop products? You're even the most rudimentary version is like you're on the latest iPhone, but all your users are on the oldest Android phone. that's the easiest. But we're talking about extra features and did all this stuff. You are seeing I think a not great product work coming out of the labs, and I do wonder how much of it is it just like they're all using stuff that we're not using, and then they don't actually know what's going on.

6:01 >> Yeah, for sure. I think this is actually true, Sam. There was time period, like I said, this year where I was using frontier stuff, and it is a shockingly different experience than what everybody does through the currently public paid APIs. Like it's identical actually to the experience you just described at early Meta. And so, it stands to absolute reason that these folks are completely disconnected from the reality of the of the consumer and what's going on.

6:29 >> So, what should they do, Dave? What do you think Sam and Dario should do? >> I actually think you should not allow your internal teams to use the frontier. It's like this famous thing, eat your own dog food. We had to switch to this at early Meta. We actually had to make it default that people are using the non or the public version because we all were losing tracks so substantially of what the actual user experience was.

6:55 And this has always been a serious problem for engineering and product teams where if you're using the thing that is only internal, you just I mean, very quickly, within days, you lose context for what the actual customer's using out there. And so, that's what I would do. I would just like leave only the research teams touching the frontier and make the entire org use what's public. >> In other news, you see Pearls up at 240, Dave?

7:20 >> Oh, nice. You mean this Pearl, Sam? >> Sam, say more about that. Remind people about the Pearl. 20% week-over-week growth. Mhm. It was at two last week. >> Pretty good. Well, all I'll say about Pearl, the thing I've been working on for a long time now, and Dave's an investor in now, and a bunch of other folks, that Coinbase did announce a few days ago that it'll be listed soon. >> Oh, really? I didn't see that. Congrats.

7:45 >> That's all I'm going to say. >> Sam, can you remind people what Pearl is for those who don't >> No, but the enterprising ones can figure it out and for them and do their own homework. >> You can do the one-liner. >> What if, hypothetically, you could run Bitcoin >> You hosted a whole event on this. It's not a secret. >> Yeah, I'm like this is not stealth. >> I hosted a whole event. It's not on the internet.

8:06 >> But it is on the internet. >> It's kind of on the internet. What would happen, hypothetically, if you could secure a proof-of-work blockchain as the byproduct of matrix multiplication? Meaning you run your AI workload, but you get a secure blockchain on top of that as more and more compute resources shift into that space. That's all I'll say for now. But number go up. >> >> We like it. We like number go up. >> Okay, so we solved Anything else related to security, we just we imagine there will be far more headlines around exploits, far more real risk just money spent on cybersecurity. Like where does this end?

8:48 >> So much cybersecurity is happening right now. >> It's totally unclear to me how one would invest in cybersecurity right now. Just buy more Cloudflare stock. Well, yeah, it's like buy Cloudflare, buy SpaceX, buy only foundation models. It's not clear to me you can build a real cybersecurity company in 2026 because the next model is what you need to secure the cybersecurity. And so I don't know what a cybersecurity company does other than professional services, which is not really a venture-scale business. So you guys might like this in terms of cybersecurity. This is kind of a fun one. About a year ago I tweeted, which then became a seed company, when someone decided to go do it a fun AI era everything gets hacked idea, which is basically you can now pay a service to take your most important documents and photos and stick them in hard copy in a mine in like the North Pole.

9:43 >> >> So, that's your cybersecurity. You take your most important memories, documents, etc. And with this >> I want the South Pole. >> Yeah. >> I think there is an insurance policy to put on top of that though. I feel like you can extract more money with like what happens if even that gets taken. >> Yeah, I mean you'd have to go to like the North Pole just to get the stuff. We're talking like Svalbard, the seed thing that holds all of the seeds. It is literally cold storage.

10:11 >> >> Okay, that's a future security. Well, I will say though insurance like AI insurance companies are popping up right and left I've seen. Protecting people from when they do get hacked and like lose all their money. >> To rehash this one, this goes back to my hobbyhorse politically of the era, right? Which is these labs need to be carrying enormous liability insurance policies, right? For sure. And right now they're centralizing profits and they're radiating out the risk to all of society cuz when goes bad and all the regional banks get hacked, you have a Katrina style problem. They're like not our problem, like society clean up the mess. We'll just take all the profits.

10:46 That's ridiculous. If you're creating the risk, you should also be responsible for having the balance sheet to clean it up, which could mean A private insurance, meaning you just have to carry a hundred billion dollars of insurance if you're doing stuff on the edge that might go wrong for lab leaks. Great for Wall Street, they'll make a fortune on that. Or B, you basically say to them like look, you're going to have force Washington to pay for this stuff anyway, so you guys need to pay in like a few hundred billion dollars a year into like a contingency fund so that when the bill comes due on all of this, there's money to pay for it. Or in the meantime we can pay down our debt and we're still going to be responsible for it later. But there is for labs and lab leaks through to individuals, insurance is great so long as it's actually functional and there when you need it.

11:29 So, yes to insurance. >> I have an update on this liability question because 2 days ago I got a Google Workspace administrator update notifying me of Google's change in terms. To which it being 2026 I just put it into Claude. I said, "Claude, what is Google saying about my agent use?" And not surprisingly Google is saying I am responsible for everything my agents do if I use their agents, which seems like a reasonable position for them to have. I'm not sure if it's one that society is going to be okay with, but Google is at least taking that line that use agents at your risk. Anything they do is your problem.

12:10 >> That's insane. That's like when Grok like sued a user for their use of Grok and you're just like, "No, like if you run a centralized service, you're responsible for what your agent does." >> That kind of makes me upset with Google. >> Well, if you want to use Google Workspace, I believe Claude's summary of these terms is accurate. So, this is exactly what Google says. >> I'm sure that's what they're doing. It's just like an insane framework. I mean, the framework really should obviously be from first principles. If you're running a service, good news, you get premium service revenue, but you're responsible kind of like for what your thing does.

12:39 By the way, if you're running open source on a machine you own, obviously you should be responsible. And in fact, if anything, that should be the business model of the labs is to be like, "Hey, we'll bundle liability and service into one in a way you can trust anyone using your By the way, that's a great model for them because then they're basically saying, 'Hey, you're using us a little bit because of the edge, but eventually everything becomes a finance company and banking life.' And what you're really using the services for is to shift risk off your organization because if you're going to run open source yourself, you got to have the liability insurance for that, and that's expensive. This is the thing that annoys me about this entire thing is like from a first principles perspective, there's actually a very logical set of conclusions about how this should work, right? I really believe strongly it's like there's not a lot of room for wiggle room. Like there's a template here to follow.

13:27 Unfortunately, like that's not necessarily what's going to happen because reality. >> Also, I would pay Google extra to take that for me instead of like I actually would. >> That's the thing. Like you're buying the liability insurance from them. >> No, I know. But like even with the whatever I pay a month right now for all of these services, I would totally pay extra if I knew if my stuff was hacked, if I lost my money, if whatever cuz I still haven't connected my personal email to things. I'm like super afraid.

13:55 >> Just don't put anything in your email. Okay, can I switch gears? Cuz we are among some of the biggest fans of Tesla in the world. So, I have to ask you, Morens, >> How many Teslas have we bought in our life? Oh gosh, hold on. >> Like is it under one hand or two hands? One hand or two? >> Oh no, it's it's definitely two hands. We've had them every year since they we've driven Tesla since it launched.

14:18 >> We like to upgrade our cars. Three hands? Four hands? >> No, no, no. We only ever have two, but we've like upgraded them as they've gotten better. >> We have three right now, Dave. >> Oh yeah, we have three. >> >> Okay. So, this proves my point. I wanted to establish for the listener that we are among we're we're just in the zone here. >> And how many Teslas have we ever owned, Jessica? >> Zero.

14:38 >> Zero. You're just wasting your time at this point. >> I can't believe that at all. I think it's crazy. We've had electric vehicles, too. We've had Bolts or Bolts or whatever. >> matter. You've never had a self-driving car. >> You're actually just wasting your time at this point cuz you don't need to do that driving anymore. >> I'm saving my organs. >> Your stress levels are definitely 30% higher than ours. >> Guys, I took five wine bars yesterday.

15:01 I'm okay. I'm doing my part for the self-driving economy. >> Talk about high-tech, low-tech. You guys are running your self-driving Teslas. I had to go to the Mazda Miata dealership twice this morning because no one in our house can drive stick but me, and I had to get it serviced. So, while you're doing that, I'm like going to the Mazda dealership. >> Man of the people right here taking his sports car to get serviced. >> I went and I realized I don't think I've ever taken a car to be serviced in my life.

15:28 >> Did you get a coffee? You have to get your coffee. Okay. >> at the dealer, at Mazda. >> coffee. >> Terrible. And the pastries are 60 days old. I left and came back. >> Sam went to Blue Bottle and came back. >> My takeaway walking in is I was two things two insights. One, it was exactly like that television show Tires We Wipe. >> Yes, love it. >> Second, it's so high-tech. >> What's high-tech? >> It was wild. Like I get a home and like I'm waiting for them >> The Mazda dealership?

15:54 >> Unbelievable. I got a text notification and it's like, "Hey Sam, here's a video walk-through of our inspection." It has the whole video transcribed to the whole car and all its parts. Then I get another text being like, "Hey Sam, we noticed this car is in, would you be interested in selling it to the dealership? Here's an offer." I was like, "These guys are teched out in terms of like AI uses to like tech out a service station." These guys are living in the future of Mazda. I was very impressed.

16:22 >> Mazda's Japanese, right? >> Yeah. >> That's cuz the Japanese are all always on top of it. But Dave's convinced there's two futures of car buyers and the middle falls out is the TLDR. >> I haven't even asked the question for this entire segment yet, but we're on part A of the topic. So Britt, make your point and then we'll move to part B. >> Let me just lay out the future of car buyers. There's either fully self-driving car owners because why would you ever want anything else and get your life back or there's the super old-school vintage stick shift I want to like my car to be maintained and blah blah blah people. And then everything in the middle just goes away.

16:58 >> Yeah, I mean that the middle always drops out of everything. >> Yeah, cuz I'm driving the Tesla and I'm driving a 73 that's fully mechanical. So it's like, you know >> A 73? What are you John Wick? >> Yep. >> >> Dave Wick. >> Oh my god. Okay. >> Anyway, Jess, what's your question? >> Part two of the topic. SpaceX and Tesla are going to merge, guys. It is not official yet. >> called this a year ago.

17:22 >> To be fair, everybody called this a year ago, but yes. >> But we called it first. >> >> Yeah, if we can just claim that. >> I put it in my ranking of why I was buying SpaceX stock in our poll, by the way. >> Okay, so Musk is now saying on earnings calls to investors that he thinks this is a good idea. >> Of course. >> SpaceX at roughly $2 trillion, Tesla at roughly $1.5 trillion.

17:46 Before too long, these will be the same company. Should we care? What does it mean? What do we make of this? >> No, we don't care. >> It's like the most obvious thing ever, and you knew that the second Elon created that pay packet for himself. Like >> Remind people, Sam, what you're talking about. >> I love the way that he announced it. He announced it with this product demo last week, right? That's like the most extraordinary demo of both companies' technologies happening together. Like it's very clearly that they were timed.

18:12 >> That demo was literally just someone they're like, "Hey, can two engineers like help us justify merging these companies by sticking >> on a car?" >> Exactly. >> We'll never ship that. It's probably like the car was probably just like a rocket shaped like a car. >> But Sam, it's genius. Come on. >> It's hilarious. >> It's not genius. It's a stunt. Why is it genius? >> It's a genius stunt. Who else is doing anything like this?

18:34 >> It's genius marketing is what he's saying. >> Genius marketing. But it is funny. Are you surprised at how many people were like very impressed by this stunt? >> Yeah, me too. >> Like to me, it's cool. >> But it's like >> It's not that cool. It's fine, but it's like it's the same thing as like >> Do you run a rocket company? Could you do this? >> it's cool, but it's the same thing as like a Disney World of Spider-Man robot that flies across like a huge amount of space on their live-action show, and it's like crazy. I mean, like it's cool.

19:00 It's physics. Like I just I'm not Everyone's like, "It flies." I'm like, "It falls." It's fine. It's I get why it's a fantasy. >> I thought it was really cool. >> I don't want to be What did Matt Mazzeo accuse me of being of like you're a horrible pessimist? Yeah, doing a demonstration with rocket boosters in a car captures people's attention. >> They love it. I love it. It's cool. >> This is why you guys are the lessers and we're the mores.

19:23 >> Do we feel like at all do we have any qualms about Elon doing this because he does not control Tesla and has always wanted to and this is how he's finally going to control it? >> I guess I didn't totally realize that. Explain this. I think maybe even the listener does not understand this. >> Elon does not control Tesla. He actually wasn't the founder which But he's very sensitive to the fact that he's not a founder.

19:48 >> Do you remember Martha's Vineyard? On Martha's Vineyard one night I tweeted something about that and is the only time Elon like replied to me and like lit me up about it and I was like, "Oh my god, this is amazing." And then I went back to bed and then I woke up in the morning and he had deleted the tweet and I was really sad. >> >> It's a figment of your imagination. >> Yes, but basically all you had done is point out a fact.

20:09 >> Are you sure it happened? 100%. There are all these people in the replies that were deleted being like, "You can't say that. That violates your like settlement of something something." I don't know. It was like this whole thing. Yeah, I mean he was basically the venture capitalist of Tesla and then became the co-founder, right? >> Yeah, he owns about a fifth of Tesla. >> There's many stories of this in the in the annals of Silicon Valley. This is a well-trodden move to not be the founder of something and then become the co-founder.

20:35 >> Correct. It is though personally annoying to him and practically annoying to him. You remember that whole pay package discussion where he got sued over his cop like there are a lot of practical and symbolic reasons. >> You don't want to do that many earnings calls. This is like 100% about what is better for Elon. >> Well, it also makes sense. Like I've been wondering why my Tesla doesn't have Starlink already. >> I think you should say why it doesn't have rockets.

21:02 >> Well, rockets, too. >> This does not make sense. It just is going to happen. It's just inevitable. It doesn't make sense. >> I don't know, Jess. I actually think it has to happen. I think this is part of the thing going on in this sort of mega trillion-dollar mega company thing that's happening is that you have to justify the valuation and you have to have enough business lines inside of these organizations that they can justify what they're doing.

21:28 >> Guys, Tesla is also a struggling company. So, Tesla stock tells one story, but this is as a business that's been under extreme financial pressure from competition from EVs globally, the change of the value like this is a company in distress. >> I understand, but if you put Tesla inside of SpaceX and SpaceX now has a AI foundation model business, a rocket launch business, electric systems business, it's all the options on the future. Yeah, it becomes like a much different asset.

22:00 Like that asset looks very different as an equity than Entropic does with whatever it is, $580 billion in forward contracts that it has to pay independent of whether or not it can deliver its service. >> You can come up with a narrative that makes sense, but it is just a narrative that makes sense. >> All we have is narratives. I'll say two things. One, to plug Jessica's new app, I'm looking at your polls app, which is excellent.

22:25 >> The Information Polls, download it today in your favorite app store. >> Wait, is this like Polymarket for The Information? >> It is free. >> It's free. Five questions of the day that it will ask you all and you get to see what the world thinks about them. It's actually quite good. >> Is this a new app or is it in The Information app? >> Dave, it's a new app and you've had test flight access for like 4 weeks.

22:44 >> Why is it a new app? >> Because we're in the unbundling phase. Like get with it. We're going to rebundle and then we're going to unbundle. >> You need the distribution. >> It's great. Anyway, question for today was SpaceX and Tesla form committees to explore a merger, genius move or Musk empire building. 83% of respondents say mostly about Musk control. So in this case, your audience is correct. >> I just did today's response. I hope it didn't move the needle cuz then >> >> Can I float one other theory that I actually quite like that I just came up with? There's one other benefit to merging SpaceX and Tesla if he does it quickly. You want to hear it? This is smart, by the way.

23:19 >> I know it, so I'll give you the sound bite. Go for it. >> Well, I'm curious if you actually know. Do you want to write it down? Text it to me and see if I get the one I have. >> god, okay. >> But it's You know what it is? >> Wait, wait, don't let me text you first. I'll text you first. >> You just text like three words. We'll see if it's is what I was going to say.

23:34 >> Did I get it? Did I get it? Did I get it? >> So drumroll, no. Here's comp threshold. We already talked about that one. I have a new theory that hasn't been that We already talked about the comp threshold. SpaceX's thing this spring in about 6 months to be massive unlocks, right? Of equity and the people that have been in the private market and people are going to want to trade out of it. If the denominator of ownership is bigger, right? Meaning you have all the public market Tesla investors plus the SpaceX investors, the percentage of the company overall that unlocks is smaller, which might actually help absorb the massive cliff from people private market investors.

24:11 >> What do you mean unlocks? I don't I don't follow. >> There's all this stock that's locked up. >> Oh, you mean after Oh, I see. The lockups. >> Half of the stock that I have in SpaceX is locked up, maybe more actually, probably 60%. It There's an enormous cliff unlock coming in the spring and everyone's going to say, "You know, it's just supply and demand." If there's an enormous You got to absorb that somewhere, right? If the enormous cliff instead of being like 80% of the value or 50% of the value of all of SpaceX is instead 30% of the value of SpaceX plus Tesla, right? Because of how the shares go out, that is going to be a easier pill to swallow effectively from a supply and demand perspective. You have all the retail Tesla investors and the denominator's just different. So that's my hot off the press theory that I have not heard anyone say yet for why this merger makes sense right now.

24:57 >> Pretty good. >> Okay, I like that. I like that theory, good. >> I like that theory, Sam. I buy it. >> Also, I do think it's interesting base X SI maybe. I mean, it's real data center business. I think like there is this element of you stumble into enough things, you don't need them all to work, you just need some to work. You've also got Terrafab that makes the silicon that is probably a a shared business as well.

25:21 So, again, the narrative sticks. I think the question When Elon sets on a deal, it usually happens. It doesn't necessarily happen without controversy and in the time frame he would like. If you remember the acquisition of Twitter, which was again sort of >> He said that, by the way, during the call yesterday. He was like, "Look, I can't I have no control over this. Over 50% of Tesla shareholders have to vote for this. This is not going to be without controversy." Like, he literally said that.

25:51 >> Oh, I missed that part. He's smart. He and I, same wavelength, us two. >> Yeah, I mean, he was actually pretty straightforward about it. He's like, "Look, I think we should do this, but I don't have any control over the outcome. It's all subcommittees of these boards and especially Tesla, like 50% plus of shareholders, which is actually a really tall order to get over 50% of all shareholders to vote on something is very difficult. So, it may not actually happen for procedural reasons."

26:16 >> Yeah, he he got his comp package through. He'll be okay. >> Did that require the same vote? >> There was a component of a vote. I don't know the threshold. You also have It's like SEC, listen to me. I'm not manipulating this deal. It is in the hands of the shareholders. Yes, SEC. Thank you. Anyway, what do you guys think it's going to be called? >> X. >> X would be great. We just need to go It's like when Sky dance Paramount, whatever, they're like, "We're Sky dance." It's like, "Of course, you are."

26:43 >> When my grok bot is using SpaceX AI, it doesn't make any sense to me. I hate it. It's just needs to be one letter. >> I like the idea that he'll probably make the ticker symbol XXX. >> Of course he will. >> Why do you like that, Dave? What What is that going to do for society? >> It wasn't even my joke. Somebody said that to me last week and I'm like, "Oh, yeah, probably." >> funny.

27:04 >> Yeah. >> Oh, goodness. >> It's like, "What What is your retirement accounts in invested in?" It's like, "XXX." >> The other funny thing he said during the call yesterday was he was like, "Okay, so it's called SpaceXSI now, so sexy." >> Oh, but that's how he named the That's how he did the Model S and the Model >> Yeah, SXSI is sexy. Yeah. >> But he loves sexy. That's all he names things after. Guys, here's my theory.

27:33 Okay, after we were in Austin and rode in the Cybercabs and on top of that in parallel, me and Dave >> The Cybercab is so good. >> Me and Dave only driving our self-driving Teslas, I found I am doing nothing but consuming content most of my drives. I'm looking at the screen, I'm watching football games, I'm watching whatever, I'm doing Zoom calls. I think Teslas are becoming the new entertainment like vehicles. And so I would not be surprised if eventually he buys Netflix.

28:04 >> >> This is a good take. >> Which is under duress, is stressed, or buys or something else and makes an entertainment business. >> I think it's a great take from the entertainment point of view. I don't think he'll buy Netflix, although that is our second top. >> I mean, I was so impressed by Cybercab that I was like, "I want to live wherever I'm on the Cybercab network because they're that good." >> So what impressed you about Cybercad?

28:28 I've never been in one. Tell me more. >> It was just basic user experience things. I initially thought I would be sketched out by the lack of steering wheel, but within 2 days I was just sitting on the side with no steering wheel and doing email not worrying about it. And there's these little nuances to the user experience that are really cool. It remembers like how you had the seats set up for you each time you get in. And it also, if you have your Spotify account connected to your Tesla account, which anybody who has a Tesla already has that happening, you get into the cyber cab and the song you were just listening to in your car is playing in the cyber cab just like instantly.

29:07 And so, it's just absolutely seamless. And I don't know. There's something nice about that, right? Even the Waymos don't have that totally nailed on a seamless perspective yet. So, they really just have identity, all of your preferences, it just works, and it's just really good. They also just feel good driving around. It's kind of nice to be in a two-person one, and I realized using it that oh, actually probably the data is that most rides are one-person rides. And so, it makes total sense that it's a two-person car. They will need four-person plus, I guess, for families and things, but I would guess if you looked at the data, I've never seen data on this, that it would be the majority of rides like 60, 70% are all single-person, two-person rides, I would guess. So, it really makes sense for that.

29:53 >> Does it feel small? Do you feel like you're going to be crushed? >> No, it feels like a Model Y. >> No, it feels like a Model 3. Wouldn't know. Don't know my models. >> Looks like an R2-D2 to me. Or no, like a C-3PO. >> It's got a huge the back of it's actually really big. The trunk for luggage and stuff could probably fit five suitcases. Like, it's really pretty amazing. >> This is like a good segue to point out that I do feel like my enthusiasm for certain new technology projects, products has just like fallen back to Earth in recent weeks.

30:23 >> Ooh, which ones? >> It's a little bit sad because I had like wanted to be a more, and now I'm like still a more on some things, but I'm like, oh. >> But you realize you're fundamentally a less. >> >> And and there's so many examples, and I, you know, I have yet to complete a successful credit card transaction on Muse in the last 9 days, but we don't need to go into that. But, the Waymos have gone a bit mad. They need a reboot.

30:48 I still love them. They are still the best alternative for me by a long shot. But, they get confused where they're going. They start on the right path and then they go in the wrong path and add like 10 minutes. That happened to me in a Waymo recently. I don't know. There's like a little resignation that the sometimes you get this like joyful exuberance of something new and you still love it, but then just disappoints you a little bit.

31:14 >> Well, this is why I also think Tesla like long-term wins because you have so much more data of all of the Teslas driving certain routes with directions turned on, self-driving. The Waymos only have data from the certain cities they're in and they just don't understand the most efficient path. >> They did. Like this is what I don't again, if I had more time in a different job, I really would get to the bottom of this, but it's just sort of not a great use of my time. Like they like know where they're going and they even show you the right path and then you know what it feels like and I don't think this is true, but it feels like they've been hacked.

31:47 >> What's been hacked? >> The Waymo's navigation system has been hacked to take you the long route. >> I feel like the Waymos have a bug has been introduced that just like slightly peeved >> Are you sure that they just It's not that you like you've pissed off Waymo and so they're just going to make you 10 minutes slower everything as a journalist? >> I am sure of nothing. I'm telling you what my experience is, which is the Waymo seems like it's on its way path and then it like gets distracted or gets like a software thing from like some malicious thing and then it makes these mistakes and screws me up and then as a passenger my cortisol levels go up and then maybe like society's less effective. That's what it feels like to me, but I'm fighting it and I'm still using Waymo, but I wish they'd fix it.

32:33 That's what I got for you. That's how I feel about most technology products at the moment. Can we talk about Netflix for a bit? We don't go deep media on this show because >> It's a small company. >> I'd put everyone to sleep. >> It's a small not important company. Why would we talk about it? >> because it's very large consumer company. $270 billion market cap as of today. >> god, it's a peon. >> It's so small, Sam. Basically the size of Cursor. It's like we don't talk about Cursor all that much either.

32:59 >> Cursor was 60 billion. >> Says Sam, the seed investor. We could do more on this pod to inspire the entrepreneurs to build any size company that they would like. $270 billion is not small. >> Yeah, I have some words for the entrepreneurs right now, but I'll keep them to myself. Morons, have you watched a Netflix show in the past 7 days? >> No. >> No. We were talking about streaming platforms last night. Apple TV releases them too slowly, but the quality is high. Netflix releases them too too quickly, but the quality is low.

33:28 >> The quality, you mean the video quality you care about? >> No, she means like storytelling quality. >> The story quality is low on Netflix and the release cadence is high and the Apple one is very high story, but not enough. >> But you will wait a decade for the next Severance. It's basically what Nicole says to you. >> Yes. >> I mean, Apple has an incredibly high hit rate. It's It's like what, 60, 70%? Like it's pretty incredible. Who's in the CEO of Apple?

33:54 >> John Turnus. >> Do you think he even realizes that they have a TV channel thing? >> In the first week he was CEO, he went to several Hollywood events. So he very clearly understands that it's a big part of their business. >> With his phone. Is the phone Is anyone buying the phone yet? Can you yet? No, next week? >> Yes, you can buy it, but you haven't received it yet. >> I will have it on Friday.

34:16 >> Yours will get hand-delivered by John. >> They will. >> it. With some M&Ms. Okay, so for those again, not Core Tech, but there's been a major major content shakeup at Netflix. >> What's happening? >> The head of content, Bela Bajaria, is out. Replaced by the former head of Fox, Peter Rice. Replaced by old school legacy media coming in. And many people are out. And apparently, co-CEO Ted Sarandos is unhappy with the quality programming. So, maybe you guys are on to something. Maybe I don't know. I love The Diplomat.

34:51 >> But they also laid off a thousand people or something. There's a big shakeup. >> So, what kind of show should Netflix go after? What should be their content niche? >> A 24-style actual dramas, dramedies that have real storytelling, high-quality production. Instead, Netflix is going after game shows. I just watched a Willy Wonka game show on Netflix. And they're spending a shitload of money into and live sports, which like I actually can understand a bit, but it's just so competitive and expensive. And now they're launching games and podcasts. So, they're trying a bunch of things and instead of like getting one thing right and being the best at it.

35:32 >> I had this take that went viral over the weekend that I think kind of works for this. And I was talking more about slop at work. The tweet was that there's an insidious new type of slop that's happening at work, where email used to be other people's to-do list for your life. But now that people you work with are driven by their AI agents, which often lack the context to know what matters for them, let alone for you, the human is now asking you for things over email that they think is priority, but actually like it feels completely off because email is now other people's agents to-do list for your life. And I kind of think this is also what's happening with Netflix, where we talk a lot about slop in content. Is the content not going to be feel creative enough? Is the stories not going to be good enough cuz there's so much slop?

36:22 What about priority slop? Making choices as to what is the priority? And I think this is kind of the thing that Netflix ran into. They used so much data to choose what scripts to fund, and what the scripts should have as priorities and sites like these three concepts mesh together will get this audience that they ended up not focusing on just making great stories. Machine learning AI systems that they've built to like choose what to fund have just kind of led them into a slop corner where everything that gets funded is slop now because it's like so pieced up into all these weird buckets. And I think this is kind of the two hands of slop right now.

37:04 You have your content slop and your priority slop, and you can get lost in either place. >> I buy that. I think it's smart. How do you avoid it? >> Dave hates the slop. Remember when he accused you of writing slop written this like it was like such a great moment in the pod. Such a great moment. Oh my god. I'm not going to open this debate again, but this is one of our marital debates. >> I just think that you need to understand, right? Like is an agent setting the priorities or is the group of people working on this setting the priorities? Why do you care if the agent's better than the person? Because the agent lacks context a lot, Sam. Like if your agent does not understand my priorities, mine doesn't understand your priorities.

37:44 >> And agents don't confront the constraints of time. Like the agents don't have to worry about the execution. These are VCs general meetings, everybody. >> It's AGM season. And so just from a where are we in 2026, we as a firm like the started putting together >> I'm surprised you even do an AGM, Sam. >> Me, too. But we do. >> Do you do one at offline, or do you guys go to Japan? What do you do?

38:08 >> We take our LPs on trips somewhere, not during the fall. >> Yeah. We don't fill their schedule with more stuff to do in the fall. >> Sorry, we're so basic, but we do one. >> You really are. >> We carved up these four sections. We gave it to the four people who are like investing partners to like do sections, everyone wrote their section. I wrote mine. And then I was like, "I'm just going to see if my bot can like take my slides and punch them up in like a little bit." So, I did that. I was like, "Wow, that was really good. You know what? What would happen if I just let the bot start from the cover slide and write the entire AGM deck?"

38:41 And I'll just write and put it in the slides, the entire AGM deck. I didn't tell it anything. It was a single prompt, truly a single prompt. I was like, "Look, I slow AGM, just like write the entire investor update deck." It came back, it's stunningly good. It was so much better than the deck we wrote ourselves. I was like blown away. So, then I had Max lesson my bot like narrated and turned into a video, but it's funny cuz you don't want to you don't want to talk to >> But Sam, this isn't possible for everyone. You have to also establish the context for everyone.

39:09 >> 100% My bot has way more context on every deal we've done, every thought we've had, like everything. It knows everything. >> >> It's all in the internet. >> But I was just absolutely blown away that his deck is so much better than our deck. And so, I just don't want to like start having this like you can't respond to bots, it's all slop. Like some of it can be amazing. >> Dave made a newspaper for Offline this week called the Offline Times. So, every time we get like a new portfolio update or something that comes in >> It publishes once a day.

39:38 >> Do you send it to people's printer? What do you do? >> Just I'll send it to you. It's pretty amazing. >> I told some of our LPs that we're going to start sending them newspapers in the mail. >> High school paper editor in me is like very proud of my newspaper that I've created. >> Are you using like a page layout or what? Page Maker? What are you using? >> Oh yeah, Page Maker, that's funny. No, it's broadsheet design. It's fully broadsheet design. I'm like very psyched about it. Sam, you you'd probably actually respect this. I'll I'll send it to you.

40:03 >> No, send it over. Love that >> Yeah, our son told us he was starting a newspaper to advertise his own Pokémon business. It's like very vertically integrated. >> Which is awesome. He's already figured out vertical integration. >> Yeah, it was I was pretty proud. >> And media as a loss leader. >> Our son got his first paid internship this week. >> Is this the part of the pod where we brag about children? >> I I didn't actually think I was bragging, but yeah, sure.

40:27 Most people do not brag about their children in journalism, let me tell you that. >> Isn't that what all parents do all the time? >> Our son really wants the iPhone duo, so we're making him get a paid internship. >> Is he working for a bot? >> He's working for a public technology company and he's getting paid a few thousand bucks to >> Wow. >> do some bug finding and to do some building. He's >> He's developing stuff. You know, actually, it's a pretty good idea to have some sort of bot that your children can work for as internships at companies. It's a good idea, actually.

40:57 Ooh, let's fund this. This is great. This is a great idea. This is a good company idea. Cuz you like want to have interns, but you really don't want to direct them, but a bot could just tell the interns what to do. >> I mean, I bet a lot of companies would pay to get like teenage voices on like eyes of what they're doing and like a different perspective. >> That was my first company. It was called Zoltar.

41:18 And we charged little tech companies money to play their games and give them feedback when I was like in third grade. >> Yeah, so there's definitely a business to be made here. I don't know if it's venture scale, but >> Mine was not a very good business, but it was fun. >> We should do it on the side. >> Okay, guys, a couple other headlines, couple other headlines. So we have meta earnings beat and stock is up.

41:37 And interestingly, the implementation of a new class of voting stock so that Mark can retain control and sell his stock. The internet is mildly miffed about this, saying it represents the end of capitalism. >> Interesting. Mark wants out. >> No, he doesn't want out. It's quite the opposite. >> He wants to be able to control his stock sales. >> If he wanted out, he'd just bail. He wants to be able to continue to lead and control the company while selling stock.

42:06 >> Well, that's what I mean. He wants the money out. Is this about the California Is it Is it a way around the California wealth tax which is just your the amount you own? >> I mean maybe, but I don't think he's going to dilute himself below the I don't think he's going to sell below the wealth tax threshold. >> No, no, it's not the wealth tax threshold. That wouldn't work. But there's a thing which is like what Parker and like some people are really scared of where like based on your voting control, you pay the wealth tax which will bankrupt like the Google co-founders. I wonder if they came up with an interesting legal strategy to like maintain control while dealing with that problem.

42:41 >> This is not a great outcome. I understand the intent of this wealth tax thing and I like Jensen's perspective on it which is just like I've been really successful. Like I will pay taxes. >> Woah, are you a wealth tax Nick? You're crazy. Really? >> What does that mean? >> You believe that the wealth tax is like not the end of the world? >> No, no, no. That's I wasn't done with my point. I understand that there's like a lot of sides to this. This is a terrible outcome. People shouldn't have to like finagle these crazy structures and things. I don't know. Can't we just do this better?

43:11 >> How about just like not having an asset tax which is like unconstitutional and sucks? >> Everyone seems to think they're coming even though we've got the election in couple weeks. >> Just because the number of people that are going to vote for it? >> I don't think people think this one will pass. >> Just because people are angry or what? It's like what's going on in France? I don't want to get into politics. I don't know enough about this.

43:31 >> This is Foucault. It's like once you can see something you tax it, okay? It's hard to see income, then you could see it, you tax it. The state will control what it can see. And so the fact that like now wealth is seeable means that and like by the way, K-shaped economy, wealth compounds because capital's compounding faster than labor. It seems intellectually inevitable that you end up with an asset tax, but it will also be a disaster and it's deeply un-American and unfree. So that's your problem.

43:58 >> The numbers have gotten so big that's like I'm very much capitalist freedom etc. But I can see it where people are coming from. Like the numbers have just gotten so big. So, I'm like the K shape is enormous, right? At the top. >> I'm pro taxes. I'm just not necessarily PRO WEALTH TAX. >> EVEN as a business owner, I thought being a business owner cured you of that. You gave me this whole spiel about when you you you started making money and you realized how high taxes were that you hated taxes.

44:24 >> I mean, it's like a adjustment period, but I do not have problems with paying taxes. Yeah. The concept of taxes you can be into without the level of taxes that California forces upon us. >> But the wealth tax is different. It's like philosophically different, I think. But maybe somewhat inevitable. If you can see it, you can tax it. Reminded me of you can see everything. Now, we don't want to give away too much of the Elizabeth Holmes Nathan Fielder movie.

44:54 Should we A encourage you to see it if you haven't? We've all seen it. >> Yes. >> Possibly the best movie ever made. >> I mean, is it going to win best picture? >> It might be the best ever. Yeah. It's pretty unbelievable. >> It's possibly the best movie ever made. You should definitely see it. I don't actually think people are like, what do you think it's not about Elizabeth Holmes. >> Did you guys hear what the amazing Sian Beanie did on Friday night?

45:15 >> No, tell us about the amazing Sian Beanie and what she did. >> So, Sian had a private showing, I think, or laundry. They had a private showing. And they were like, "There's a surprise, so you should come." And so, a bunch of people went. We were out of town, sadly couldn't go. And apparently at the end Billy, Elizabeth's husband, was sitting in the audience and just like walked to the front of the theater and sat down and did like an hour Q&A.

45:42 >> And it was the first time he had ever seen it. >> And it just like melted people's minds. >> He had not seen it before that day. >> Pretty amazing. >> Given the themes of the story itself, that is like a major move on top of a major move. >> Pretty cool. Yeah. I still don't know how to feel about it. It's like the whole thing. >> processing. >> I go I go back to I got slayed in the information for having any empathy at all, if you remember Jess. Like I did a comment on your original article.

46:08 >> You did? >> Yeah, I got like absolutely slayed in the information for this. >> We don't slay people. What are you talking about? This was way back in the day. >> I had this point of view which is like maybe she's just a Silicon Valley founder that fell into the hype train and everyone in Silicon Valley does this. Elon does this, right? Like this is Silicon Valley hype 101. And it's funny after you see this thing, you're just like I don't know how to feel about this. I don't know who's I guess that's the point of the movie though, right?

46:35 >> That is the point of the movie. >> Well, no. I don't think that's the point of the movie and I don't I think this is the one thing that I think there is some whitewashing of the Elizabeth Holmes story going on right now. >> For sure. That's what I'm saying, Sam. Is the point is to make you question the whole thing. >> This story is such an interesting story about humanity and the nature of being human and reality >> Yes.

46:52 >> that like you lose the fact that then there's hilarious videos of her saying absolutely bat just straight up lies all over the place and the fact that she's probably mentally ill. The story is amazing. It's not about Elizabeth Holmes is my view. It's an incredible movie. Should definitely watch it. >> Highly recommend people see it. It's worth the time. >> It's very hard to talk about it right now without giving things away. >> >> My favorite line though is I have seen on the internet a handful of people that like I hated this movie and they're like I hated it. Nathan Fielder is a totally untrustworthy narrator and you're like you are an idiot. Like >> That's so funny.

47:29 >> You have just outed yourself as one of the dumbest people on earth. Congratulations. >> He's the best. That was a he was the perfect person. >> No, it's not about being a fan. It's about not understanding the entire 3-hour movie being like I didn't like it cuz he's an untrustworthy narrator. You're like yeah yeah. That's That's the whole thing, man. >> Okay. Well, any you guys have any good weekend plans? Cuz so everyone should download We got to plug polls. So the information we decided there's >> I'm going to drive my mechanical car a bunch.

47:58 >> Well, let me tell people why they should download poll. >> I downloaded it and took the poll. >> And I never got the test right. >> I'm psyched about it. >> only find out the answers by answering the questions or following me on X where I'm likely for the foreseeable future to put >> I learned a bunch. I'm actually surprised by some of it. >> It's a good way to get a pulse on what the insiders think. Step one, beloved feedback. Everyone try it. It's free.

48:20 You don't have to be a subscriber, but you should be. >> It's great. I'm a big fan of this. >> Thank you. >> Good job, Jess. >> Thank you. >> I like that I got the Nvidia one right. >> It's like a wisdom of crowds thing. >> Or I'm aligned with the crowd on that one. You're happy to be as average as everyone else. Is that what you mean? Yes, but I'm very unaverage on a bunch of the others.

48:38 >> We know you're unaverage, Dave. >> That's good. You one might imagine layers where you could segment based on what the founders think or the investors think or the mores think or the less thinks, you know, social social dynamic. >> Oh, yeah. Can we get a more or less poll on each one of these? >> I don't know. It's just what did the mores and the lesses say? >> Yeah. It's pretty good. Okay, Dave's going to drive his car this weekend. I'm going to Disneyland. Brett, what are you doing?

49:02 >> Disneyland. >> I'm an advisor to this event called DOC, D O C. It's like the TED for like science and health and there are two to 300 scientists and health entrepreneurs all up in Sonoma for the next couple days talking about the future of what's happening in medicine and science. So, I'm going to be there. >> Fun. Sam, what are you doing this weekend? >> I don't That would be a question for you. I don't know.

49:26 >> >> Whatever Jessica tells him to do. >> Okay. Well, dear listeners, I hope you're listening to this pod over it this weekend. I also appreciate the the texts I've been getting from the non-peptide among you as listeners. Every day or so I get >> Oh, yeah. Brett, peptides, you look your skin's looking great. >> Guys, I've gotten a lot of people telling me I'm peak Brett right now and I take that as a huge compliment. I've still now I'm on 2 weeks of no back or hip pain.

49:54 And Matt Mazzio pinged me, the founder of NOHO Labs, and said the same thing happened to him. It's not placebo. His back pain went away instantly, and his snoring went to zero as soon as he started taking the Wolverine blend. So, I don't know. I'm just going to leave it at that. >> I am forever when we talk about peptides, going to remind people these are not FDA-approved, and they are not studied, and they exist in a gray area for some research use where you >> They are pretty studied.

50:25 >> No, they're not. And so, I just want everyone to know that, and make choices for yourself. But, we got to balance out the conversation. >> In this case, Britt and I are in the Moors. Take them all. >> Yeah. Peptide it up. >> They're just short chains. They're great. >> It's just a little injection in your butt. You got this. >> I don't do the butt. I don't have enough fat in my butt. I don't want to do the butt.

50:44 >> What? Why don't you have fat on your butt? Where is your fat? >> My belly. I'm a man. >> Okay. Okay. Now that we compared the belly and butt fat percentages of two members of this pod, we will say thank you for listening. >> >> Follow us on YouTube, and we'll see you back here next week for another episode of More or Less. >> Bye, everyone. >> Bye. >> Bye. >> See you later. >> If you enjoyed this show, please leave us a virtual high five by rating it and reviewing it on Apple Podcast, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcast.

51:17 Find more information about each episode in the show notes, and follow us on social media by searching for @moreorless, @davemoran, @lesson, @jlesson, and as for me, I'm @britt. See you guys next time.