Jagriti66 - #2 Empowering - 27 Jan 2026

0:00 Yeah, let's have more people on video unless you have some really serious constraint otherwise come on video. It's nice to nice to see your faces and especially when uh in today's session we'll be interacting a lot. So I uh when I'm interacting it's >> people on video unless you >> right. So yeah that's my question. My question is simple. What does this word empower? Empowering. Empowerment. What does it mean to you? Quickly. You can type in chat. You can come on voice. But more people on video would be nice.

0:39 Yeah. Whatever. Whatever it means to you. Just share. No. Anybody sharing? I thought I'm on mute or something. Oh, whatever my I'm checking my speakers. Okay, somebody started with the chat. But you can not you can uh don't worry about the chat. Uh come on. Come on Mike, that is much better. Uh we will use the chat people who want to.

1:19 But uh yeah, let's share Okay, Joti is saying help anybody realize his powers. Lavana is saying decision making taking control of your life. Help someone do what they wish to do. Enabling the beingness of the other to be not interfering in that process. Okay. Yeah. If you define what all is what all is um empowering or empowerment to you then we can we can actually work on that. No make sense. So please please share please share. Okay, people who are joining in now we are asking what is empowering, what is empowerment and please more people on video most more people on mic making them more capable adding value to something or someone okay whatever this word empower empowering empowerment means to you share share share also when you share on audio video it it comes as part of the recording that makes the recording more interesting Empowerment to me means uh learning something, gaining something from life.

2:45 >> Okay. Gaining something from life, learning something others. For me, I think it's just to instill the confidence in oneself or in the other person that you can actually achieve or do something or whatever you >> Mhm. Instill the confidence. Okay. >> Ability to think for yourself. >> Ability to think for yourself. >> I would just replace E with I and I am power. >> Okay. I am power. >> I am power. Yeah.

3:17 More thoughts. Whatever. Whatever comes to you >> being the catalyst to bring out the best in someone. >> Okay. Being the catalyst to bring out the best in someone and how do you be the catalyst? So the question also I'm adding one more question. If all of this whatever we have shared in in chat as well as on voice if all of that is empowerment how do we go about doing it?

3:54 Yeah some thoughts manali saying nudging or facilitating them towards growth. Okay. And how do we do that? >> By constrained sorry >> by removing distraction. By removing distraction. I like that. Okay. I'll tell you why I like that little later. Yeah. Power. Okay. >> Asking questions. >> Okay. Asking questions. More thoughts. More thoughts. Quickly. >> I feel like just uh being able to see the other. Uh >> being able to see the other. Okay.

4:32 >> Not imposing your beliefs in other >> not imposing your beliefs in other. Okay. Yeah. >> Just be there for the other person. >> Just be there for the other person. Okay. Evoking the power within. Yeah. >> Uh allowing them to learn from their mistakes. >> Mhm. Okay. Allowing them to learn from their mistakes. Yep. Yep. Okay. Good. Good. Good. We We've got a lot of You can obviously keep sharing. There is no limits. But we've got a lot of stuff up for us. Freedom to think outside the box says Nati Rama saying again freedom and allowing them to make mistakes. Super. Okay, you've got a good session going already. Full full masala up ahead. Okay, so what we will do today is today we'll follow a slightly different kind of a format. Um I have stacked up a whole lot of situations.

5:31 Yeah. And um the way we will do it, I will introduce the situation, you share how you will respond to that situation normally. Okay. As in on a day-to-day basis as uh and and then we will discuss that and then we will move to the next situation. Yeah. Today we will not take your situations yet. Today we will take my situation as in the situations that I have I have pre-prepared and when we reach the WhatsApp group stage you can obviously share your situations absolutely not an issue. Yeah. Okay.

6:03 Meanwhile I've got couple of messages in chat. Van says help them build necessary capabilities but how is still my question. Remove the obstacles that they cannot themselves overcome. Again how is still my question. Free whatever is preventing them from making them their own decision. Again how is my question. So good three ways but all threes have interesting how to it. Uh Nishant is saying empower means to let other person rise to their full potential. Same question. So how do we do that full potential? Okay so let's explore together right um there is lot of uh scope now that we have lot of things at our hand. Yeah.

6:46 Okay. So I'll start the first situation. Yeah, it's a very tiny uh little video uh just a few seconds. So I've kind of I it it'll play twice. Uh the scenario is that I am I'm with a video camera proper you know movie video camera and I enter this room and let's see what prana who is about about 9 years 8 9 years uh what is prana uh what is prana doing? Yeah let's watch and just thumbs up somebody if you just to ensure that you can hear the audio. Yeah.

7:31 >> You're not able to hear the audio. >> Okay. I don't know why I had that hunch. >> I can hear. I I can hear. Okay. >> Some of you could hear. Okay. Let me again share it. No problem. No issues. Share. Share sound.

8:02 Mhm. Okay. Can't hear. Can't hear. Let's play this again. Okay. Hopefully things should be fine. >> How did the sound come from here? >> How does the sound come from? >> Yeah.

8:37 >> How does the sound come from here? How does the sound come from? Yep. This time, did you get the audio? Yeah. Okay. Yes. >> And uh Pranav is asking how does the sound come from here? In a way, he means how does the sound go in here? That's what he's pointing to to the camera. Uh that's what he's he's say. He's asking he's saying how does the sound just read it as go in here. Yeah, that's what he's saying. Yeah. If you were in my place holding this video camera, what would be your response? You can type in chat, you can come on mic, however you want to, but let's all do it. I I would uh let's say request that all of you share your responses for all the situations that we have today. Nothing right or wrong, nothing good or bad. We're just exploring. But if you have your bass response then it's much more interesting to build uh you know further >> just like the sound goes into our ear the sound will go into this mic. Okay, that's what Aneruda is saying. Priya saying I would say it has it has a microphone.

9:51 Okay, people who have attended session before please don't respond. So Satya Joti, you're outcast right now etc. I'm saying Shakila I think and the many people who have done this before. Okay Joe Joti is already put it there. Okay, there's a microphone inside that receives the sound. Jave is Nanda or Javal is saying I would ask what do you think Nishant is saying? If I know I would just tell him or if I don't know. No, there is no if here. Nishant you.

10:22 The situation is right there. So you can decide right now whether you know or you don't know. If right it's not a hypothetical situation. It's a live situation. Just imagine he's asking you right now. So what would you do? I would Chandra Kand is saying give a tech description of how mic works. Puja saying is recording whatever you are saying through this microphone >> others others who have joined just now and hopefully see this boy is asking how does the side sound go into the camera that's the one he's pointing to >> I will explore with him like I will give him to explore this and then we'll explore it together okay yeah Explore sound reaches through microphone. Let's find out.

11:12 Okay. Malvika is singing an instrument which records anything. >> I would like to ask the child what what do you think how the sound is coming and then maybe have more discussion on it. >> Okay. Ask the son. Ask the child. >> Yeah. Just one small request. So please mute your mic when you're not speaking otherwise the background sounds u you know kind of just disturbs everybody. Um yeah soil is saying I'll show the camera and make a small video in front and replay so that you can see. Okay. Okay.

11:50 Okay. Let's take uh I think most of you would have responded. Uh somebody's name is still uh as oppo CPH22. So please change your name to your actual name so that I can know who I am. Rama is saying if I'm in good mood I would discuss with questions otherwise I would give the answers if I'm in bad mood I'd ask him no to but now so what mood are you in right now Rama see that right it's all in real time it's not a hypothetical situation it's happening right now he's asking right now right okay so uh we we'll discuss this in just a little while um uh we'll just move ahead and um one more situation and and we'll discuss both these situations together. Yeah, if I hope that's okay. Um, right. Uh, this situation is fairly simple as you can see on the screen.

12:44 Child, uh, you are at a signal. You stopped at a red signal and you have a, let's say, a 5-year-old with you and this 5-year-old asks why are stop signals red in color. What would you say? Yeah, let's say you are driving the car or whatever. You're sitting next to the child. How does it matter? And you need not be driving the car. Yeah. Whatever. Whatever would you say? >> Hello. I would say uh it's a universal law which we have to follow everywhere.

13:18 >> Mhm. Universal law. Okay. Uh Priya is saying attention. Yeah. Go ahead. Go ahead. >> I would ask my child uh what red color makes you think? what comes first in your mind and I'll keep on asking asking him questions. >> Okay. Okay. >> Answer him. >> Okay. Uh again I request somebody with the name Oppo CPH please please tell us your name now. Just type it in the chat.

13:48 You don't have to change your name. Just type your name. You're asking you're saying I don't know. Let's ask GPT. Okay Nisha. So uh this is h so this has happened with me as well like most of the time. >> Wait wait wait wait wait wait wait just tell us what you will do. Does it matter whether it has happened? >> It happens most of the time but I always ask myself I have never thought this way so I will let you know like why I will let you know. Okay fair enough.

14:16 >> Okay is saying I never thought about it. Uh okay. Shhatma is is was saying I don't know let's ask GPT Chandak is saying stop the car and the bikes is saying that's how it's around the globe a convention because it's bright and we can distinguish it easily from other colors says yes. More people on video please 35 people and I want 2 3 4 5 6 seven people.

14:48 Hello. Come on. I would like to see your faces. And I'm sure you'll also like to see each other. It's much more. So many pretty faces. And I got to see only seven. So bad. Okay. Red is a danger. What do you do when there's a danger ahead? Okay. Anybody else? Mhm. Okay. No problem. Uh let's I will tell the different colors and what this symbolizes. Maybe says puja. Okay.

15:28 Okay. It would also be nice if more people use audio. Come on. That's it's good. It's good to use audio. Everybody do you guys like typing so much? I'm really surprised. Okay. Anyway, well saying thinking aloud. What would happen if all traffic switched to blue from red? Yeah. But would you say that to the child or are you thinking aloud now? I I'm saying what would be your response to the child? Well, one okay. >> So, so Javal and since you are together when you are typing, you write either a J and then follow it or N and follow.

16:01 So, I know whom I'm talking to. Yeah, that would be helpful if that's not too much. >> Actually, Nanda is our last name. So, he's Jav and I'm Kupa. >> Ka. Okay. You're Ka and he's Javal. Okay. >> Yes. >> Okay. Javal. Then bad manners. You should write Kupa and Javal. Okay. J saying I would drive the convention as mentioned. What do you feel when you see red color? Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Fair enough. Fair enough.

16:29 Okay. We've got some responses here. Um let's go back to the previous situation. Yeah. Uh you remember the prrenav situation and let's see what happened. What happened in that situation? Because the recording was slightly longer than I showed you. Let me show you a little longer recording. >> How does the sound come from? Yeah. >> How does the sound come from? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. You tell me how you think sound comes from. Uh >> the someone will speak and the sound will go.

17:04 >> What? What? What? Tell me again. >> Someone will speak to this and the sound will go there. Okay. And then where will it go? >> And then it will go to the TV. >> Go to the TV. >> Huh? >> Okay. >> You have to connect it to the TV and take it. >> Okay. >> I don't know. >> Okay. So, what happened?

17:34 >> He already knew. you empower sort of >> I don't know. >> Okay. Okay. Leave the word empower for some time. >> Let's take it. Okay. Step by step. Uh when a child is asking a question, what is the child doing? >> Exploring. >> Okay. >> Trying to see. trying to see >> if trying to see if he knows what he knows is correct >> is correct.

18:12 >> Maybe >> maybe >> when the child >> sorry somebody's >> uh yeah when the child is asking a question what is the child doing? >> Analyzing is curiosity. >> Yeah curiosity trying to think through. So okay let can I say the child is thinking when when do you ask a question do you ask a question just like that or you are thinking something only then you ask a question right so when a child is asking a question he's thinking whether that's curiosity or whether for what is his answer or whatever he's thinking it's as simple as that so when the child is asking a question the child is thinking I'm assuming everybody is ask is agreeing Um, forget the child is learning or not.

19:04 Whether he learning or not, he's thinking or she's thinking. Now, what do you want? Do you want his thinking or do you want your thinking? >> His thinking. >> Now go back into the chat and see how many of us are actually wanting his thinking. Or are we wanting to give our knowledge, our gan, our thinking?

19:41 >> It's so simple. You know, if we want the child to think, do you want the child to think? He's already thinking. Somebody said, "We want to be with the child." Well, he's already there. Just be with his thinking. Yeah, whatever it is is thinking. Isn't it so simple? Whether it's the mic situation or the red light situation, the child is thinking and what he or she is thinking. If that is important, then let the child think or or share with you if the child is okay with sharing with you.

20:28 Somebody said somewhere a little back. Okay. Uh we we we have to facilitate the thinking, right? Somebody said when we talk about empowerment, well, we have to shut up to facilitate the thinking. >> So many people around it's not connected to what you're saying. While it is I feel that then the question that comes up generally is that what is our role >> that is not the right question or rather that is not wait >> that is not important >> I'm asking you Malvika in this situation what do you want do you want to value your thinking your knowledge your perspective or do you want to value the child's thinking?

21:27 >> Absolutely. The child >> then just do that. It is so simple. >> The question is not the question important question is well one please don't raise hand. I don't normally see all of that. If you have something please jump in the discussion. Don't worry we are all full mess. So please jump in. Unmute and full jump in. Yeah let's fight over this. Yeah, s is saying let him wander for a while. If he goes too far, we may choose to do how far how far do you want to value his thinking.

22:00 Why can't let him wander wander wander wander wonder? We'll come to that. Okay, we'll come to the wandering that sahil is talking about and just another situation. >> I am I'm still with a very basic situation. >> I'm very basic very basic question. What do you want? Do you want to value his thinking or do you want to value your thinking and knowledge? You decide. I am not saying which one is more important. I'm giving you two choices. You value his thinking, her thinking or you value your thinking, your knowledge. You decide which one?

22:43 >> Um Ratn G is the choice necessarily binary. Uh can I value things other than the child's thinking? Can I value the purpose for which the question is asked? >> Yeah. If I think about valuing thinking, I'm already putting myself somehow in the face of a facilitator saying, "Okay, the child is asking this question with the purpose of learning something or I should turn this turn this question into a learning opportunity." >> I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I absolutely that is why I'm telling you I'm not even saying there are binary choices, but I'm just saying you decide. You decide after you ask this question what do I want in this situation in most cases we well one don't ask this question we download our gan you know USB connected Bluetooth connected all gan downloaded I'm not saying you shouldn't do anything I'm not even saying anything I'm only reminding you that you have a at least these two choices I'm sure as you very rightly pointed out it's not binary a million continuum in between. If the child is is is about to run on a busy road, I wouldn't allow the child to run.

23:59 I wouldn't say go beta explore. I will see your thinking. No, obviously not now. Well, we will we will catch hold on. If he's going to run on a busy road or if he's going to jump from a fifth floor balcony, ready to jump, he asking, well, should I jump? I'm sure will not do that. He'll pull him back because you can't jump from a fifth floor balcony at that moment. I cannot say what are you thinking about jumping I am with you totally I am with you totally the but the important the question that I'm trying to ask is still a very simple question do we even pause and say hey what do I want in this particular situation see in a balcony situation I'm very clear what do I want I want to save him from jumping I don't want to jump from fifth floor balcony right so I there I'm very very sure but what I'm saying is in many many many many many many many many many many many many other situations do we even think what is it that we want do we want to value okay forget value at least listen to his thinking somebody said we need to whatever when we were talking about empowering all those I I'm forgetting now what all you were saying there were so many things shared we want this power to the child.

25:22 How do you give the power to the child? How do I how do I, you know, come out of his way? >> No. So, you're suggesting that when the child is asking us a question and we as parents are are involved and listening to our child, giving them the attention that they want, but instead of responding uh with an answer, we should probe them with more questions. >> No, no, no, no, no. I'm not suggesting anything at all.

25:57 I am only making you aware that there is a guy or a girl meaning there's a person who is thinking and there is you another person who is thinking you re just you decide I'm not suggesting any I'm just making you realize right that's why I showed you two videos in the first question he's asking in the second video he's showing that he's actually was already thinking Now it's up to you what you want to do with that. You want to listen to his thinking, understand his thinking, be with his thinking, give value to his thinking. These are all just words. You decide what you want to do. I am not suggesting anything in this whole session for that matter in the whole of Jagrati. I'm not suggesting anything.

26:46 All I'm showing you is is one more side. Okay. Let me take one more situation and then we can have a more durum dram discussion. Right? Let's take this situation. Let's say a little two and a half. I'm now decreasing the age further. Let's say a 2 and a half or a 2year-old comes running and he says whatever whatever uncle auntie auntie see my green bottle. And he's pointing to like you can see in the picture he's pointing to his bottle. See my green bottle.

27:16 This two year is saying, "Hey uncle, my green bottle." Now what do you do? What do you normally do? You don't have to say now I will do this. No, no, no, no. What would you normally do as in yesterday till 26th January? What would you would have said done? Come on. >> Start correcting him. No, it's not. It's blue. >> Okay. And why are you correcting him? But >> but this is wait. Why are you correcting?

27:46 >> Because we identify it as clue. >> Yeah. Yeah. But why are you correcting? >> So that he knows >> the correct thing which everybody else is also identifying. So he >> But 10 minutes back people were saying to empower let him make mistakes. Now he's making a mistakes and we are saying no no no no no no no no no beta I got to correct you mistakes >> also it makes me look like a fool as a parent like I have experienced that when I shut up in those fool >> yeah okay when I have shut up in those moments earlier attended jagriti so the I'm I'm it's a challenge >> okay okay wait whether it's a challenge or not we will keep it aside Right.

28:35 Challenges are beautiful. Ping zone is amazing. Right? >> We'll come to that later. Let's take more responses. What would be your normal response if you are going to correct him? My question is why? Please answer my question. Why are you correcting him? And if you're not correct, if you have another way of doing >> how do you normally >> how do you normally do see how in everyday life things become useful. For example, >> wait wait wait wait wait. We we we we we it saying >> if we don't know the color and association with the word.

29:12 >> Uh-huh. Sure. Sure. >> All knowledge has some value. Absolutely. Absolutely. All knowledge has some value. >> I think I would say wow that's a fantastic water bottle. But I think the color seems to be blue. >> Why? Why? So why is that? I think so. >> I agree. But it's it's it's our I think innate or mine my innate need to probably >> No, no, no, no, no. Nothing of that.

29:44 Nothing of that sort. Nothing of that sort. I'm telling you. I'm telling you, you are not asking this question. And the question is what do I want in this situation? What do I want? Do I want to correct him or do I want him to figure it out >> like like somebody's saying Bila is saying because he needs to know the correct information Lana so he has two ways of finding the correct information you or himself by going through various data you know he may go to a friend's house friend may show his blue aeroplane he may see it on TV somebody's talking about the blue umbrella and somewhere somebody's talking about the green this and mommy is saying today I made the green noodles. So he's getting data and he can put that data together in his mind and construct the concept of colors. Now the question is what do you want? Do you want him to construct his knowledge or do you want to correct his knowledge?

30:55 Construct or connect? Do you want him to use his thinking, his ability to learn, his ability to figure out? Or do you want him to use your ability to tell colors? Which one do you want? My question is very simple. What do you want? If you want to quickly tax give him this knowledge, give him no problem. Please don't think this is wrong or right. It is wonderful. But if you want him to construct his knowledge, use his ability to create his own world, his own thinking, his own knowledge base, his own color, blah blah blah.

31:37 Then you give him that power or rather don't take his power away. He's already doing it. He has picked up the vocabulary of green and he's freely using it. We are the one who thinks it has to bang sit in the right jigsaw puzzle piece. If you want it that way, please definitely give him the gan. But if you want him to play around with his jigsaw pieces till all of them fit in the way he would like to fit it in his life, then you allow him.

32:09 You decide. Uh if I if we were to put it uh say for example uh in our daily vocab only we have introduced uh to the child saying that uh the bottle uh this is a blue bottle. Okay. We have not we we have introduced like like the example of green noodle. Okay. Uh uh we have introduced to the child a blue bottle and still he comes back and says uh >> you know absolutely he's still thinking it's green. So what you want to correct him please correct him. You want him to correct himself. You want him to figure it out. You want him to use his abilities and you do that. Either way is it is fine. You decide which one. The question is what do you want in this situation at this moment? What do you want? Do you want to give him your power or do you want him to use his power? Uh so as a next step while we are discussing can we reason it out and maybe take him what is the next step again you have to decide as a next step do I want to do reason him out through my questioning so-called nudging so-called building or do I want him to again figure it out possible so >> it's like we are when the child Correction is a different thing. And when we share our everyday experience like this is green noodle or I I have prepared green noodles for you that is totally different than correcting the child. Both ways we are transferring something.

33:58 >> No, even green noodles green noodles okay I just gave it as an example. I don't mean to say I I will go to a child and say here you are green noodles. Noodles are normally >> data collection will be like that. Right. his data collection is anyway going to be there. >> Right. >> Yeah. Something say >> but rather than correcting because correcting is then >> no no no wait we I'm not even there whether it is correcting or providing information or nudges I'm just saying I'm still there I'm I'm I I don't want you to go ahead actually I want you to step back actually and I'm saying what do we want?

34:38 >> Do we want Answer is very simple. This we want child to figure it out himself. >> Then we need to give him that space. No, >> give him that pace that he's his or hers. If we are only in such a tearing hurry. >> Yeah. more questions, more thought please spoke my question my my way of putting it absolutely that is the fun >> I think uh I think uh what you've told is uh very true because there are there have been instances where we have you know as as we've just discussed we've immediately collect collected say our daughter but she goes out uh she meets uh maybe her sister and then comes back and we see that she's already learned what we were trying to tell her but you know it didn't go in at that time but she's learned from somebody else doing it and she knows now that you know that is that's what I I mean maybe uh seeing them has given her uh the ability to understand that this is what is the thing maybe I don't know whether she even thinks that this is what my father told or my mother told but she has learned it from her surroundings uh which we wanted her to you know uh learn by telling her which didn't happen.

36:08 >> So I I agree uh what you have because that has happened in uh few instances >> and please realize if we are correcting the child and if the child realizes oh I was wrong now there are two three things happening first of all the child is realizing my thinking is wrong right is that that's not a good feeling my thinking is wrong two I have somebody who knows everything so now I don't need to I'll simply go and ask him or her. Mama, what dress should I wear to a party? Mama, this this this what is this? What is that? Chat GPT. Whatever.

36:46 Whatever. Now, nothing wrong with chat GPT. Okay. And there's a very interesting third thing. What is the third thing? Anybody guess? One, one is okay, I am wrong. Two is uh dad and mom knows everything or whatever. dad, mom, uncle, auntie, teacher, chat, GPT, whatever. I don't need to think. Let my thinking be not important. Somebody else's gan is more important. But there's a >> uh so Resn answer answer question. The what is the third thing? We'll come back to your question. Chandra Khan, there is something else that is happening which we not realized. They'll hesitate >> just one option.

37:33 >> They'll hesitate to uh say anything again fearing that it'll be wrong. >> Yeah, that is the first one. >> Okay. Yeah, that is the first one where I'm thinking that I could be wrong. The second thing is mom or dad or teacher or whatever adults are right. What's the third thing? >> They might think that there's just one answer. Okay, maybe. Okay, that's maybe the fourth thing. >> And or maybe he will start listening to others every time then like depending on his own thinking.

38:09 >> Mhm. >> Right. Right. >> Always need. >> Yeah. That is one that is one >> only right wrong answers in the world. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So that's as I said that's the fourth point. So thanks for that. Okay. So my my problem is is somewhere else. I'm saying then the whole thing is that the knowledge the content is more important than the intent then I as a person is less important.

38:46 What I know or don't know is more important. Then your focus is not me but my answer. You see? So let's decide what is more important. Is the content important or the container important? The child is the container and the content is all the knowledge thinking what what sorry all the knowledge that the child has. Now we by saying that ah this is wrong this is right we are focusing on the content and saying the content is important bit I will tell you what is right I will nudge you I will ask him lawn and tree is green as Priya is saying but then you are pointing towards you you are you are with the content not with the container or his or her intent.

39:49 And we are missing out something. We're missing out a huge connection. And suddenly the whole thing is about that I should look as you said I should look right. I have to be right because only my content is my value. No content is not my value. the ability to think, the ability to construct, the ability to do all the kinds of things and whatever kind of ability that is me, the knowledge will come and go. Let me give you another example. Let's say let's say let's say let's say we I take you to the edge of a forest. Okay? Let's take this situation. Let's say I take you to the edge of the forest and uh I show you a a map of the forest. I show you uh pictures of a tree and some leaves and of that tree and the fruits of the tree and the flowers of the tree with a map and I say please get me a fruit of this particular tree and if it's not fruiting get me at least a leaf of this tree right so you have all the data all the information and you go and you find it right that's that's situation one or or scenario one let's say let's say scenario two right uh or scenario B is when I take you to the edge of the forest and I say, "Somewhere in this forest, there's a unique tree with a unique fruit and a unique leaf and a unique flower. Please get me that unique flower or fruit or leaf." Uh that's it.

41:21 No map, no pictures, no reference, no names, nothing. Now in which one you will learn more or rather which one you like more. So to even uh reach to a point where um to start the discussion there should be a uh baseline uh at least that's what most of the people I can see are trying to uh refer to like it may not be that you are trying to answer for the child but at least you are trying through it may not be nudging also but at least through some line of questioning you are trying to understand fundamentally how he is reaching to that answer or uh do that much Chandra Kant you're making it sound very complicated you just have to listen to his thinking >> okay so as a next step >> why there is a next step is where I am so please come back to this tell me which one would you want the first or the second >> second one >> why >> because that's something uh is unique part excites me like uh what is there and all.

42:41 >> We are not giving you any pictures and all. You will wander, you will get lost, you will go here and there. >> That will make me observe and look at each tree. >> Oh, very look and observe a lot more. >> You're not afraid of getting lost. >> Well, there shouldn't be any wild animals. Obviously, we wouldn't send you there.

43:12 >> So, we have to decide what do we want. Do we want to he get that fruit and the leaf in his hand or do we want him or her to look at every tree at every color or whatever every that he is exploring at every camera and every mic and every every every whatever whatever whatever is happening in his life. What do we want? >> I want >> It's such a simple question.

43:44 What do we want? >> We want him to learn. >> Really? How? What? What? >> Well, I think the reason >> to learn >> the reason that we tell them the answer uh immediately is because we want them to know everything. >> Yeah. No. learning >> but our method is such that they're not able to know everything but they're only focused on one thing. So that's that's the fault with our method I think.

44:15 >> I'm not sure I understood what you're saying. Um can you rephrase it? >> Yeah like we whatever they ask us we immediately answer my intent is that I want him to know. So whatever >> that part I got that that's why we want to give our knowledge to them. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> But then as you gave the example of the forest, if I give him the way, if I if I tell him the exact tree where to go, then he's not able to learn about the other trees. He's not able to learn everything, right? He's only learning what I am telling him.

44:50 >> And he's also learning that you are the source of knowledge rather than he himself being the generator of his or her knowledge or learning or thinking or abilities. Yeah. And it's very restricted learning. So that restriction comes there. >> So I'm only asking you a very simple question. What do you want? Just ask this question. And if you want this, you go for this. And if you want that, you go for that. If you want to be with the child's thinking, let him wander. Let him get lost. Let him keep calling blue green.

45:27 If you can be with him, if you want to can observe his journey of figuring out things then that can be very very interesting. Remember we are not saying that we are saying that the child get lost you only learn yourself. We are still with the child. We are listening. We are wanting to know what he is thinking or how he is looking at something. So we are valuing him as an individual more than valuing the knowledge that he has currently because we know that n knowledge which 20year-old does not know blue and green you know what I mean it's not about the content at all >> I want to add here >> yeah two people one by one yeah please please go ahead puja >> yes so I just want to add my uh like example now I can relate so I have two kids. No, no, no, wait, wait, wait. We are not taking your examples. I I have enough examples lined up. You think of your examples, please post them in the WhatsApp group, right? There lots of time, but I have a reason to have a stack of I said that right at the beginning. So, I'm not taking sorry, sorry, apologies. I'm not taking anybody's example. I'm sure you have many live. Please enjoy them. Share them with us in the WhatsApp group. Yes.

46:46 Well, and I think Chandra, I don't know if I've still uh given you enough space for you to share what you wanted to. So maybe after if Chendra Kant you still have a thought please. >> Yeah I I I fully agree. Uh but like the I I mean the where I probably am differing is like instead of generalizing yes in most occasion I would like to observe how they are forming their thoughts how are they you know responding to any problem without intervening which I fully agree with you that should be our approach. uh but like in some cases uh it probably would be better to understand I already gave you examples where it will be better two examples I gave you a child running onto a busy road you won't let him explore and okay whatever is your thinking so I'm I'm what I'm not even sub telling you to do something I'm only showing you the window I'm showing you another window where the child's thinking child's power and child is exists Yes.

47:53 Right. And what is it that we want to work on? Yes. Belwan, you wanted to say something. Uh so in the case of the child uh in our opinion saying the wrong color, we are faced with two choices. One to tell the child what we think is right or the other is to let the child explore or build experience. Let us say we are faced with this choice. We consciously make the choice and that choice is to correct the child. Is there still a way to be with the child? Even if we decide this now for that moment when you are correcting you are definitely not with the child in that sense. You are only with your knowledge at that moment. We are not saying you're not with the child in physically, mentally, emotionally, not that way, but with the child in the sense of what the child was thinking because we did not even know what why the child called it green. We came with our knowledge. So at that moment we are saying this piece this bit of information it's just a momentary thing.

48:58 You can later on also ask him beta this is this is blue color now tell me why were you thinking green? But then he already has been standard corrected. So in that sense yeah in that sense see again these are play of words you may say aren't we with the child are we with the child I don't know you decide how you how you connect what makes this connection what makes this interesting is this interesting to just observe oh wow he's thinking of this as green let's see where it goes let's see what's going on inside him that is interesting you go if you said no no no let me just fix this quickly and let let's move it please do that I'm not trying to say one is better than the other. I'm just giving you another window, right? I'm the last person to to tell you or prescribe you a way. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Jagrati is not about one way. Jagrati is adding one more way for you. Well, one, please use your choices. Whether you want to call, which one you want to call with, which one you want, don't want to call with is also your choice.

50:00 Why should I better? You said a word uh I I would like I would like to hear it again. Uh uh did you use the word correct me if I'm mistaken ability to construct? >> Yes. Ability to construct. >> It's called constructivism if you want to know the technical term used in educational pedagogy all over the world but not uh education pedagogy. it is supposed to be like the wow word right but it's not practiced right so I I'm just saying a lot of times this is according to me on if you see the slide we we tend to glorify facts more than uh more than thinking I don't know if you prefer that way we also do a lot of thinking for them you know before they even can think about something we immediately come up I don't know why there is so much cold today but so cloudy now it it it you know snowed in Shimla Uh so we come up with our own tuk tuk tuk tuk tuk. Um yeah we also stop so soon. So just think about it. I'm not saying anything. You don't have to do anything before or after this session. You can continue how you are doing. Just think this. What do you want?

51:21 Let me uh throw in one more situation and uh okay let's um we'll come back to this uh let me ah okay let let me take this situation I think yeah okay no let me go back wait yeah yeah okay let me show first this So I have two choices. I've given two choices here again. And in the question one is what is the capital of Arunachal Pradesh? And the question two is given a globe in which state capital will the sun rise first in India.

52:08 Now which one would you prefer for yourself or for the child or whatever? Okay. Some of you want the A one, some of you prefer the B one. So, you have to come on mic and tell me why do you like A or why do you like B. And Lava, I'll come to your thought in the sorry in the chat in just a little while after this.

52:46 I think uh A is more direct and easy to respond to and understand whereas B it is more allows you to think uh beyond and uh uh figure things out uh which is the better way of learning for sure but A is just easier. >> So which one would you prefer? >> For myself I think A for my child B. Yeah, it is easy to easy to start from something very simple uh and then like we were discussing earlier have lot of line of questions and reach to the difficulties uh based on you know just connecting the dots making it difficult as we move along uh >> what makes you think that a is easier if I don't know the answer a is extremely difficult At least it is easier for me because I don't know uh the answer to one B. As a matter of fact, I'm searching while I'm talking to you. So, okay. Okay.

53:56 Nishant is saying B has more information in it, more knowledge. Now uh >> no what B does is I think it shifts the the attention from the verb like whatever state or whatever capital it is >> from other than like it could be anything like instead of so the I mean as as we said like instead of the content or instead of the information it shifts the the attention to the the larger wingering of it. So I mean it it doesn't matter whether you get it right or wrong but I think >> as as the forest you know it's similar to forest it it gives you more choices to see what you want to see to a child at least.

54:42 >> Now um if there is a so to answer 1 B requires an understanding or sorry requires that the child possesses certain facts upon which new connections between the facts can be built. For example, the child needs to know or needs to at least have the information of the map of India. The child needs to know that the sun rises in the east and told you that the child needs to know that. >> Yeah.

55:13 >> Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. That is your assumption that the child needs to know that. If I give you a if I give a child a globe and I say and the child can still come up with an answer, the answer may not be right. >> Does that matter? If you are coming from that that knowledge bit is important then B becomes A only. If you're coming from the perspective that there is so much to explore without necessarily reaching anywhere the wandering in the forest then it's a totally different thing. So this this presumption that certain things has to be there and only then it will happen and then Lavana was also asking can a 2-year-old or four year old possess pro process that content.

56:03 I'm saying then we haven't even understood our 2 years and four year olds. Please, please, please realize a 2-year-old can master a complete language called mother tongue without a single word being taught. The child constructs the language, syntax, grammar, application, sentence structuring, everything just by listening. The child did not come in this world to know with any knowledge.

56:33 But the child figures out completely. If the child has two parents with speaking two different languages, the child learns both the languages exactly knowing which parents to speak when which language with what vocabulary with what grammar to us really less capability. Oh no, they are a masked with capability and that is the power I am talking about.

57:09 That is what I'm asking you. What do you want? Do you want the knowledge that you have or do you want the ability that the child has? Which one you want to use? You decide. I'm not deciding for you. But the child is thinking even in the first case the prana knew the answer right just like a and even if it was the wrong answer how does that matter the fact that he's using his abilities in full on that is the power that we are talking about are we with that power when you ask me well one whom are you with I'm asking are you with the power of the child or are you with the knowledge that you have or understanding that you have or your thinking or your concepts or whatever you decide. And I'm I'm again not trying to say this one or that one. I'm not trying to make you make a choice. I'm only asking you to pause and think what do I want in any situation. In some situation you can do this, in some situation you can do that. Your choice.

58:17 >> Uh so a basic question. So what would be the difference between the question in 1 A versus 1 B like is it like 1 B is more difficult than 1 B 1 A is that >> you tell me what is the difference between A and B. Okay. Like yeah like I was saying 1B is something I did not know. So I would feel that is difficult and then tread slowly see how things are going and try to see how the child is connecting the dots how how he's you know forming his uh ideas. Uh but yeah is that the correct uh way to take these questions is you decide. That's exactly what I'm saying. The again the choice is yours which one you want the right if you if you find the second one more interesting take that approach if you want straight away tell the answer is known you know then that's the way that see the the uh the premise is a lot of a lot time uh we are giving a lot of importance to knowing especially in today's world knowing really it's any somebody already answered I think Shhatma said you just go to ask chat GPD when you need to know in fact even I do that for anything and everything I ask Google what is this even I don't know capital Pradesh I will just Google it man what is this big deal about knowing but really you see the right inside of the slide to create, to understand, to make decision, to problem solve, to estimate that all requires the ability to think.

60:13 So what do we want to value? If if we are only talking right now between knowing and thinking, I'm not even talking about content and container. That's we'll we'll talk about that after the break. We'll take a small break. Uh Ratn uh >> you can just call me Ratnes. Let the G be away. I'm still 1g only not 5G. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> So Rat's thinking uh does not happen in a knowledge vacuum.

60:47 So uh for so so yeah and that was my contention with 1 a and 1 b as well right so let's say you're decorating flowers right let's say you want to you you want to have a bouquet the more flowers you have my bouquet will be different from your bouquet but still you can't have a bouquet >> that is why I'm saying but what do you want them to wander in the forest or you give them the knowledge as they wander the forest of this world. They construct everything. They construct the language, right? They did not come with any they are a vacuum of knowledge. Yet they were thinking from day one who is taking care of me who is it that I like whom I'm ready to go into the arms of who is that person who what is everybody calling him as as relevant or what name so the the knowledge what is knowing knowing is whatever is around you is always there the physical space is already there the moment I'm born I'm not born in vacuum. I'm born with people around, words around, pictures around, wind around, temperature around, everything around me. Why are you saying it's in vacuum? There is no vacuum.

62:11 Well, when there is always so much around me and now the whole idea is do I want to let the child manipulate it and come up with his own theories, his own thoughts, his own ideas. That is what is the ability and the child is using it from day one. Uh Ratna Aran decide.

62:42 >> Yeah. Um okay. So it's 94. Can we take a little break and Arpan we'll start with your question? Is that okay? Uh uh yeah I didn't have a question actually just a thoughts on and your but we can do it after the break in case everyone everyone's primed for a break >> or maybe I'll just leave this thought and then we can come and discuss there >> yeah go ahead >> yeah so uh building up on what said right I'm with you what you said about that children learn the languages as a parent without being told the words and grammars and letters I'm with you. But the basic building blocks, right? That's where I'm just trying to each situation that you mentioned. Why is the signal red? Why is it red? The blue bottle, green bottle or the forest part. So, uh let me give you the best example of Lego blocks. When we give Lego blocks to our children, they are just square square 50 blocks 100 blocks. If the child asks me why is this called a block or why is square a square? These are the basic constructs of human language in the standard rules.

63:47 Why is a signal red? So that we can provide but what to build out. Wait, pause. We'll pause it here. You don't have to I'm just telling you you don't have to provide. No, I'm just finishing quickly. I'm just saying wait. I'm already telling you. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Whatever you think is basic, please provide. I'm not here to debate that. I'm saying but the basic is the child, not anything else. I'm challenging it in that way. We think knowledge has basics.

64:16 There's only one basic the child's mind which is capable of creating everything else. If you want. >> Correct. Correct. So, we are giving him the freedom to construct whatever he wants with the block. A building, a bridge, a tower, a construct. We are okay. >> You don't you don't need to give him the blocks. That's what I'm talking. >> No, but if he asks what is it block? Why a block called a block? That's like a basic.

64:37 >> No, that's what you're calling it basic. But it is not basic. It's your construct. You are calling it as a block. It's your choice. You can share. You call it basic. Please, please share. So, again, I am in this whole discussion. I am not trying to say um what you should do. I am only trying to say what do you want. You decide. If you think this is basic arpan, please give. If you think this is a required knowledge, please give your choice. Your child.

65:06 Yeah. I have I have nothing against anybody. >> Yeah. But again, we to see where are we coming from. Okay. We'll we'll we'll we'll meet we'll meet after the break. It's 9:6. Let's come by let's say 911. Yep. And take it further. I have more situations. Let's Let's upscale it a little. Let's get into it more messier. Yep.

69:37 Okay, are people back? If you're back, just type either come on video then I know you are back or that would be the best. Um or just type B or yeah something in the chat then I know you are back.

70:22 Okay. Uh Vibbuti has an interesting question right so what do we do child is anyway somebody's going to tell child something something so what do we do you decide you want to value his thinking you want to listen to what he is saying or you want to value your knowledge just because somebody else is going to give that knowledge it isn't about the knowledge actually at All we are missing the point if we are thinking somebody else will give the knowledge I'm not talking about knowledge at all talking about the child.

71:22 Yeah. How is the child then thinking about his ability to think when when you are with the child you can make whatever difference you are making or wanting to make to that child's thinking isn't it I can't change the world right anyway I don't need to change the world but I can see what value I had to the child.

72:00 Yeah. And that is what difference I can make. Yes. Others are going to give all the gan. How does that matter? Let's make it a little more interesting. I don't know if I answered your question Vi but I think it's not whether the child will get the knowledge from wherever however the child gets the knowledge that's not the point the moment the child was with me what did the child connect with his or her abilities his or her thinking where where where did he operate from then to me is important to me it's important you can decide what's important to you that's why I keep leaving it as a question what do you want let's take it one more situation let's Let's get it more interesting. Let's say um let's say child comes back from play. You can take whatever age and the child is saying they are not allowing me to play and the child is crying.

73:03 Child comes crying and says they are not allowing me to play. Let's say let's say you are staying in a place where there are other children outside. Let's say an apartment. child goes down to play and comes back crying saying they're not allowing me to play. What would you do this time? I want you to write in chat. Okay, let's take it the other way around since anyway people are wanting to write in chat. Let's have it. Let's What would you What would you uh say or do?

73:33 Okay, Shatma is saying I'm ready to play with you. Others, what what would you say or do when the child comes up with this situation? Okay, we're saying how do you feel about that?

74:04 What do we do now? Do you know why Chandakanta asking ask him what do you want to do? Mhm. Now when you're saying slowly validate his feeling and ask him the reason why they are not allowing s I'll ask the child and get to know what happened and maybe ask what he wants to do Ow.

74:49 So um uh Lavana when you say uh you will slowly validate his feelings. Okay. I um Okay. And ask him. I'm I'm laughing because I like this. Slowly validate. Okay. and ask him the reason why they are not allowing. So if if it's okay if I can take you on mic, I want to ask you why do you want to know the reason why they are not allowing?

75:20 Oh, Nishant is also asking the same question in a way. Prasad is also asking what happened. So Prasad, Lava, Nishant, why do you want to know? But right now, yeah, Lava first. >> Why? Why do you want to know the reason why they are not aligning? >> Uh I want to know the situation. Why? >> Yes. Why do you want to know the situation? >> Why do you want to know the situation?

75:53 >> Without knowing how can we come to an answer. >> And why do you need to come to the answer? >> Who should come to the answer? you or you want the child to come to the answer. Which one do you want? >> Yeah. Even >> just one moment. Just one moment. Just one moment. Can I little have an exchange with Lana? Yeah. >> The child needs to come to an answer.

76:24 But uh he just come to me came to me to >> Yes. He came to you crying and you're saying the now how will the child come to an answer >> that that is what to process the situation uh he's already crying >> yeah he already knows the situation correct >> yes he already knows >> so he has all the data to come up with the solution >> yes >> why do you need to know that information >> goes to answer >> then whom do you want to answer see you see the problem if if we think the moment we are asking what happened let's say the child says you know I kicked that child now there we go you know what I mean >> yes >> then we have then we are already THERE WITH OUR SO WE have to think we have to think what do we want?

77:33 Do we want if you want the child to process the information which he already has for that we don't need to know the information do you want to be with the information or do you want to be with the child I know the answer the way I put it it's difficult to say the other way around I know I'm kind of manipulating your answers I'm saying what do you want to be with with the child's thinking or the information because the moment shares information then you would be with the information.

78:08 It's difficult to be with the child because then information has all the masala >> depends on the situation. >> Yeah. Yeah. But it will depend on the situation. What will depend on the situation? What does it depend on process? Aran is saying child is upset so to figure out solution but the child can figure out the solution.

78:45 Do you think the child is okay? Let me ask you a question. Do you think the child is capable of figuring out the solution? Yes or no? >> Certainly yes. But in this situation wait wait wait wait. Maybe it needs a little bit of Wait wait wait wait wait. You guys are going too fast. I'm a very slow guy. >> Yeah. I I will again ask you a question. You think the child is capable of finding the solution?

79:19 Do you really believe that? Eventually yes but depending on the answer is no eventually no no there's no eventually I am asking you at this moment when the child has come in crying is the child capable of finding his or her solution yes or no >> to be honest I am conflicted here because >> yeah so your answer is no >> it's 50/50 >> there's no 50/50 either you think the child is capable or either you believe the child is capable or you believe the child is not capable right now. The child needs my nudging, mudgudging, budging, facilitating, facilitating, whatever you want to call it.

80:03 >> No, if you would have figuring it out. He's figuring out in his own way. Figuring out doesn't mean problem solution. He is figuring out. But he's figuring it out by crying. What's the problem with crying? He's figuring out by roaming around you and crying w where and thinking also. Is that even possible? It's possible. It's happening all the time. The question is okay. I have an even more interesting question not just to you to all of you. Even if you think that the child even if you doubt let's say even if you doubt that the whether the child is capable or not would you like the child to become capable of finally >> absolutely absolutely >> and please let him do it nama if he doesn't do it himself then I'm capable you see even if we have a doubt even if we think that the child is not capable if we want the child to develop that capability we have to allow allow him to develop it. No, how will he develop it?

81:12 If we start coming in with all our facilitation, >> I hear you. I hear you. Just one point, Sandra. Sorry. I I would not go if I see they are playing and the child is crying and then I would not go and intervene. The child has reached out to me which means she's help if I don't extend that help then child might feel oh I reached out my not helping me. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. What did the child say?

81:41 >> They're not allowing me to play. >> Did the child say you help me? >> No. The child has not reached out for your help. >> You are thinking I am the dad. I am the one who supposed to help him. You have already you have already worn all your armory. The child is not asked for anything. The child is simply saying they're not allowing me to play and crying. We are making the assumptions. >> Okay.

82:07 >> And you know what we what we do when you when you make an assumption when you assume see the chat window when we make when we assume something we make an ass of you and me. Shadma is saying then what he wants us at that time. Exactly. That is my question. Pause. Exactly my thing. Think what is it that he wants and if you pause then you will not ask what the situation you can ask him what do you want from me beta sha is that simple if you're saying just before that want >> just one then you can ask him what do you want if that is what shadma is saying I'm not there with you chandra just give me a minute if shadma you are saying then what does he want from us then Ask him what do you want from me?

83:04 What do you want me to do? >> Okay. Right. Right. >> And sha if you are thinking that and let's say you ask the child what do you want me to do and the child says I want you to come and this boy Sanjay I want you to slap him. How will you do it? Are you with this solution? Okay, I'm obviously pulling you. Okay, don't worry. Yeah, when you then you can say I'm not okay with that solution.

83:41 That's your choice because he's asking you now. He's inviting you into the situation and you can choose to either reject the solution or select the solution or say I don't even want to be part of it. You only find the solution. Am I there sha with you? Because if he is pulling you but why are we assuming that he just because he's crying just because he has come to you that he wants you to give the solution and even if you assume that you still have a choice somebody's asking you for something I ask you for 10 lakh rupees you will not just give it to me will you give me 10 lakh I don't mind right you would you you would also try and see what is it that I want for and why I'm on for and and maybe you would say build it yourself. You're funding your life, right?

84:39 So what I Okay, all I'm trying to say is yes, we are coming up with a certain set of beliefs. I am the savior. I am the solution. I am the giver. The child is this is my role. Now these are all our beliefs. Nothing wrong with those beliefs. Lovely beliefs. Now let's add few more. Is my child capable? Maybe maybe my child is capable. Maybe the child will become capable by doing it this way. Lavana is saying um at least we need to soo him. Lava, do you want to soo him or do you want him to soo himself?

85:17 You ask me a question, I will give you a double question. And you know you can't answer the other way around, right? Do you want to soo him lava or do you want him to become capable of soothing himself assuming assuming that he's not capable? I think they are capable but let's say you assume even if you assume that he's not capable of soothing himself how else will he become s capable of soothing himself if you keep soothing him?

85:49 >> Yes Chandra Khan you wanted to share something sorry. Yeah. So uh yeah as I like based on the gentleman who spoke just uh before me uh so just adding on the same line of thought it is not the urge to reach a solution but uh sometimes even with us uh during the time of misery or when you know something like this happens uh awkward >> what is the urge tell me then what is the urge wait don't get digressed here and there in this situation let's Same with the situation.

86:23 >> Yeah. So just the first thing anybody would want. >> No, no, no, no, no. Don't blame anybody. Say Chantra Khan. Don't blame it on anybody because it's your belief system. >> Yes. Yes. Yes. >> So say what you say. Yeah. >> I would at least even in such a predicament. I would want somebody to put my thoughts together. >> Right. Chandra Khan, what is your belief behind that? The child needs you to put his thoughts in order.

86:54 >> Yes. Okay. Is that your belief? >> Uh in this situation >> then play around with that belief. Invite another belief that maybe the child is capable of putting down his thoughts together. Maybe. But how will we know this? Maybe only by exploring. only by giving him that chance from green bottle to blue bottle or crying to I'm still with the same question ladies and gentlemen what do we want do we want child to use his powers or we to use our sorting arranging um you know picking whatever whatever whatever powers We have to decide what do we want. I am not against chandakant your response or arpant's response or lava's response.

87:54 I'm going again I'm not into responses. is I'm saying where are we coming from and one of the belief system one way to look at our belief system is to say what is it that we are wanting now our belief system is wanting something else but I'm questioning my belief by asking a simple question what do I want do I really want that or do I want something else do you want to explore today his power his energy his solutions If the child comes to me and says you know uncle would you slap him let's say you have an interesting solution let's figure out why not we are so soon into denying their solution then they will start thinking okay mom dad are the solution factory and then teachers are the solution factory and then bosses are the solution factory and so on and so forth. Why?

88:53 What is education? Preparing the contents or preparing the container? Who are you with the situation or the child? You have to decide. I am not here to decide for you. I can only show you that there is a possibility called child. There's a potential. There's a capability who has lots of capabilities may not come out as right as you are right. But then whose right do you value? Your right or his wrongs? Which is more interesting? Tell me tell me tell me please please tell me in the chat window who what is what is more interesting? Your right or his wrongs or her wrongs?

89:46 Which one is more interesting? Which one is more alive? Which one is more energy? Which one is morph with fire? We have to decide. And remember, we are not saying go get lost now. You find your own solutions. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. We still with the child physically, mentally.

90:18 mentally in the sense listening I don't mean giving my gan if you want to if you want to give your gan that's also in a way with also as I think well you know pointed out maybe that is also being with the child I I I don't know whichever way you want to put it yeah some questions some thoughts So >> yeah, sorry. Somebody was saying something.

90:54 >> Ratni. Um sorry if this is a very lousy example but uh if parenting were to be uh flying a plane uh let's say we've put the plane on autopilot but what you seem to be saying is after a point of time it's put on autopilot and after a point of time that there was wait right now this is all theoretical discussion try it out believe me your role will become even more active. You will have so much to listen, so much to enjoy, so much to energize with. Okay? You will come back and say, "Wow, this is a mine full of gold."

91:38 >> You know, you are saying the job of the parent is neither flying the plane nor autopiloting. The job of a parent is to enjoy the child's wrongs and powers and thinkings and excursions and wanderings and lossing, losing and getting lost and getting found and so on. There is so much more in the child. We're not exploring the child. We're exploring the world of knowledge. World of knowledge is passive, man. Who cares about knowledge? It's available at without even a push of button. I don't even have to say and Google starts answering me from my phone. Google assistant says starts answering my question. Has it happened to you? It's listening to my question discussion and starts giving their opinion. You know, so knowledge is not at all there.

92:31 It's what is your role as a parent? You ask me that question, I'll tell you. My role as a parent is to mess up with the child. Why? Because it's so much fun. If a child comes to me and says uncle 7 + 4 is 11. I'll say cha cha cha 7 + 4 is 12. What you are saying 7 + 4 is 11. He will say no no no uncle but 7 + 4 is 11. I said no no no no. 7 + 4 is 12.

92:55 What am I doing? I'm messing up with him. I'm troubling her. I'm confusing them. And you know what? Kids love confusion. They love challenges. They don't like dishes point poured out straight on. They like the masala in it. Then they say, "Man, this is this is awesome. This is dishom dishum. Let's figure this out. Let's fight it out."

93:26 And in that whole process of 7 + 4 is 11 or 12. I don't know who is learning. If at all you worry about learning 8 then RN uh for similar example like they are not allowing me to play that kind of situation.

94:04 Generally what I have seen is after two to three times if something similar happens then the child tends to move away from the group or stops trying. >> Yeah. Wait wait wait wait wait. So so yeah that's what I'm saying again. If you are leaving it on to the child I am saying it's the other way around. Right? If if the child says what what maybe the as you're saying the child says okay I'm not going to play. I'll say okay. Now what happens is that the over of the story now we can again discuss it back in the dinner. So what are you thinking about these friends not the lying we can again think it in the lunch we can again understand his thinking what is he thinking but the point is who do you want to think who do you want to start figuring out his social relationships who do you want him who do you want to figure out the emotional soothing or whatever whatever or taking care That's the same question. What do you want? As I said, we are not leaving the child alone. Now he will fend for himself whether he goes to play or not.

95:09 I don't care what he what is happening in his life. I don't care. I didn't say that. I said it's just the opposite. In fact, I'm saying it becomes even more engaging. It's not autopilot. It become more and more more and more involved and it's so much more fun. saying exactly we we not supposed to be calm. We are supposed to be enjoying. Exactly. This is life. Don't do so many other things. Don't do things that the child is supposed to do. Exactly. That's what I'm telling you. I'm telling you, don't do the child's work. Let him do his work.

95:49 If you want to, obviously, so that you can do your work. Exactly. You have enough problems to solve that you're solving his problems. I think I have enough problems of my own. Let me first solve my problem and let him solve his problem and we can keep exchanging notes you know once in a while. How's it going kind of a thing. You know the interesting thing is that when when we kind of push back when the challenge is pushed back for the uh in that sense for the child only to think through for the child only to figure out as I said number one children love it.

96:29 Let me put up a cute little slide to um you know uh D where is that? Oh I've got so many slides. like a this comic you know we we we we are basically taking the whole fun out of this learning by giving them the answers but they like the challenge they like to go back in different ways they like to struggle they like to be in that ping zone we talked about it 100 things they are in the ping zone they don't mind it we are the ones who might start minding it my child has a social problem now what do I do one problem and we started getting you know sweaty and this guy with 100 problems at his hand right from how to write to how to catch to how to make friends to how to do this and how to do that. It's cool.

97:18 He is fighting on all the 100 you know battlefronts. So the kids love that challenge. What is learning? Why is learning so joyous? We say now children learn so much faster. You know why? Because they love challenges. It's not because learning is easy. It's because learning is tougher. In fact, you know, they don't even call me a mentor. They call me a tormentor because I keep troubling them all the time, messing up with their brains. And the more I mess up, the more come back to me. I don't know why they come back to me. Please ask them. But they love it. They love the challenges. They love the responsibility. They love the ownership.

98:03 The other day, one one girl was crying outside. She was around what 12 or 13. She was standing outside and crying and talk crying on the phone with her dad you know constantly talking crying talking crying this problem is happening that problem is happening no so I just paused the conversation with the dad live on the phone and I said uh if it was raining will you start talking to your dad it's raining I'm getting wet she says no I said what will you do I'll go inside exactly now go inside this problem and do what you want to do why are you telling dad all you're crying and like she was like what what was that?

99:01 So I'm not trying to say that this is easy or difficult or complicated or confusing. I'm trying to say this is joyous. This is where we really get our juice. When we put our thinkings, our abilities into the action. This is what is the real fun. And as somebody is saying, sometimes they'll come back and say, you know, you just give me the answer, but even then you have a choice.

99:32 I I I purposefully give them a very, you know, very wrong answer, you know. Um, and and and and then they realize, oh, uh, I I thought I get an answer from this guy, but I know what what it means. So, they will just go back because they know that this guy has given me, you know, if if they ask me, let's say, how many how many spoons of sugar in my in this pudding, I would say, put some salt. Then they'll say, okay, no point asking him. I should try something myself.

100:02 We are fueled in so much fear of being wrong, of being not correct that the only thing that they look for is validation. Oh, come on. Do you want them to look for validation or do they want to look for energy inside them?

100:34 Okay, let let's um I'll take a small little break. I'll just show you a small clip sorry clip from the movie Three Idiots. Most of us would have seen this movie Three Idiots Amir Khan's movie. So I'm sure you'll quickly relate to it. But I think in a very simple subtle way the movie is saying what I've been trying to you know show you the other side you know the other side the joy of learning. Let's talk about that after the clip. Yeah.

101:11 Highly qualified professor. We do not have all day.

102:27 Your time starts. No. Down.

102:59 Time up. Time up, sir. Time up. Anyone? Sir, well educated. Hello. This is not a philosophy class sir.

104:06 Wait, students.

104:44 Yeah. So I thought let let me take help of Amir Khan and do my job. Um let's take one more situation perhaps the last one for today. Let's increase the age a little. Let's say you have a whatever 12 13 year old right and uh your child uh this 13 year old is getting bullied in the class and she's been telling you but u uh you know today she says I I'm not at all going to anymore go to school because I'm getting bullied and all of that u done with schooling because of this bullying right that's what she's saying I'm not going to this school anymore.

105:33 Yeah. Is this this whole thing about bullying, the child is getting bullied, is that a good news or a bad news for you? >> It's a news. >> Yeah. But how do you take it? Do you think of it as a good news or a bad news? G or B?

106:04 Yes, it's a news. But how do you receive it? >> Bad news. >> Mhm. Okay. Well, at least Chandra Kant is there to show us how is it a good news. Oh, Shushi is also saying good news. Let's invite Shushi. Shushi, tell us why is that a good news for you? Come on, come on, come on. We haven't heard your voice. >> Yeah. Uh because one that I'm at least a safe space enough for my child to uh come and discuss whatever the situation is.

106:42 >> Mhm. Okay. And >> uh yeah, majorly that I had one more thought, but it's sort of lost. Mhm. Mhm. Taval is saying an experience. Yeah. Yeah. Chandraant, why is it good news for you? >> Uh I mean I have not uh influenced by what has happened so far. Even given like we would not have had this discussion, I would still say that it is a good news because it is a new challenge.

107:26 uh and then in the age of learning or so-called uh growing up if if my child encounters more number of problems I would feel that her repository or her knowledge base is that much bigger. So in that sense I would feel that is good that she encountered a new problem today and it is not a easy day for her.

107:56 Yeah. What do others think about about Chandra Khan's thought that uh anybody else saying good news? Uh okay Satya I am skipping. Um anybody else saying why is is thinking that or agreeing with Chandra Kant or saying hey this is good news. Anybody dancing yay my daughter is getting bullied. Yay! Yay! Yay! Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Anybody? Anybody like me? Um, >> who's overjoyed? Not this good news.

108:29 Who's overjoyed? >> So, uh, I I I disagree with Chandra Kant. Is that okay? Or you specifically are looking for people who think it's great news? No, >> you tell me your view. Forget Chandra Khan's view. What do you think? Is it a good news or a bad news? It is news and it's not a copout uh that I'm calling it good or bad because seeuh anything that happens see the child is a life by itself right so by labeling it a good news like I I'm responding to Chandraan's point here by saying good that it's a learning opportunity see is the child a learning machine should all the experiences of the child looked only at the p only only through the prism of how will it result in learning or how will how will it result in improvement and so on. Should I process everything through that filter?

109:33 See the child is see how am I being with the child there if the child has had a bullying experience which has scarred the child for life >> and then does it really make sense for me to go tell the child what did we learn out of this? How can we emerge stronger? In some ways that will even sorry I'm a little emotional. In some ways that that even sounds ugly that's sounds deeply disrespectful of the child. Why is it disrespectful of the child?

110:00 >> Because it's because the child is >> are you trying to say that only good things should happen bad things don't shouldn't happen. >> Not at all. Not at all. >> When bad thing when good things are happen what do you go and say to the child? H when good things happen we say wow this is amazing happening isn't it? Why do we say that? Then we are favoring only good things. Then we want only the only the creams on the pies.

110:34 Either you are neutral about everything in life which is very very unlikely dear. What I'm trying to say is it's not trying to be uh you know we we we are not trying to say that to the child to say that this is good that this is happening in the life. Why would I say that to the child? But to me it is good news. To me it is good news as you said it's not just about that one has to emerge out of it stronger. But why not in the sense not stronger necessarily but one has to one has to navigate life if you say it doesn't have to be learning I'm not talking learning in the sense of some subject in fact I would say then the whole education the system should be crumbled and thrown away if that is what we are saying we are saying there is there is learning in the sense of experiencing and seeing what how do I navigate it what it does do to me what it does to you if an experience has come it's a beautiful welcome to that experience because the experiences come for something and that is the beauty and where I have the resources I have the power in me to navigate it it's not just about learning if the way you have put it it sounds like terrible I would say it's awesome if the child can can learn out of it why not it is the curriculum of life has thrown something at you welcome it enjoy it explore it by enjoying I don't mean laughing. This is not going to be a laughing dish uh journey. Why not? Why not? It it is it is something to behold. As much as something good would have if if you know so-called positive would have happened, you would have said yes, this is also beautiful. So the point is that life will bring everything. It is up to us how we receive it. And if we receive it with the with the realization that we have the resources as in the child has the resources to navigate both inside the child and as I think um Shushri was mentioning also with me I have I am with my let's say parents or with someone who cares for me so that I'm also together I'm not like alone and at the same time I have all the resources so I don't have to rub it the wrong way by saying beta this is good for you obviously the child is feeling terrible me saying it is good for you the child feel like slapping me right I'm not saying it that way is saying I I see again Shadma when you're saying it's not overjoyed maybe you mistook my dance but I do dance like that and I do dance because to me it's about I'm not dancing about the situation you got me completely wrong I'm not with the situation at all. I'm with the child.

113:29 I'm dancing that yes, this will get more abilities energized. This will get more resources in action. And who will discover those resources inside the child? The child. It's not for me to discover. I already know that they are there. I already believe that they are there. Now, how will the child >> problematic? >> Sorry. Sorry. Just just wait. Just wait. We are still in theory, right? I'm saying now see try it out put it in action if you want to if you don't want to if you want to call it a bad news that's your choice again I am again with the same question what do you want you want to call it bad news please call it bad news you want to call it good news you call it good news you want to be overjoyed be overjoyed but you see what it when I say overjoyed I mean when I look at it that way when I when my belief is that this is something to celebrate then what how do I go about taking and navigating and letting the child allowing the child to use their abilities to navigate it. The moment I pack it into the filter of bad news, I come in with all my sweeping strokes.

114:39 The moment I come in with the the joy of celebrating then I can slowly slowly work through it. It's the frame of mind. It's your belief system. It's that is what I am pointing at. It's not about the situation situation situation. It's just an example, right? U I I'll if you um if you allow I okay I'll I'll tell it towards the end. I'll tell you a live situation what happened in my childhood and and how I see it now. But let me let me pause. Let me hear some of your thoughts and responses. Yeah.

115:14 >> Uh so Ratn, the thing is it's not about good versus bad. I think we're talking slightly tangentially here. My disagreement with you on this part is see life is happening. Okay. Whether you call I'm not talking about labeling good I want to go beyond labeling good and bad and saying that the child is going through a life experience and I cannot always put on the hat of a learning facilitator and say >> right. So just like I see I cannot look at >> wait wait wait why do you want to put it so much down that learning facility something terrible why can't we we can in any situation value the child you are coming from a learning facilator perspective I'm not even talking about my hats I'm talking about the child what do you want from the child do you want the child to use her abilities or you what you want the child to use your abilities let's get down to practical sense what do you want I'm asking everybody not just well one do we want do We want to get this child to to experience this because this has already come. How do you want the child to experience this? If you want the child to experience this as a learning, growing, enlarging experience, then so be it. It's beautiful. I want to celebrate it. I'm saying it well. One, I am saying it's a good news for me. I'm not saying it is for you. So please you you don't have to disagree with me. You have to you have to think what is it for you and what do you want to do with it.

116:46 I am putting it this way because it makes sense to me. Because if I start thinking of a bad news, thus the very moment the news happens, I have seen 99 people jumping to rescue forgetting that the child has abilities from the simplest of the bad news to the terriblest of the bad. That's why I've taken a very strong situation, not even taken a small situation. You come with whatever theories that's for you sir. I am not denying them. I am not disagreeing with any one of you and neither I'm wanting you to agree or disagree with me. Please don't agree or disagree with me. But start agreeing or disagreeing with yourself.

117:29 We are so stuck with our good news bad news. We are so rather stuck with our bad news that we jump in. We immediately start cleaning things. We immediately start rescuing our child. We don't even give children the chance, not just the chance, more than the chance, the space I would say to to exercise what is already in them. It's not even a learning experience. It's a question of using experience I may call it. They have to use their ability and they are capable of it.

118:06 So, well, or anybody else if you are disagreeing with me, great. Awesome. Please disagree with me. If you're agreeing with me, that is also fine. Or I would say don't do any of those. I'm not even in the picture. I'm not important. What I say is also not important. What you think is important. I'm only poking holes in your thinking. I'm only opening more windows if you want to try them. If you don't want to try them, obviously your choice.

118:39 I'm nowhere saying that you don't have to this do it this way you don't have to this way I I don't know why you guys are taking it that we will stop supporting the child what is supporting is supporting something doing for somebody or is supporting somebody being with somebody so that they can do something for themselves so so please define supporting what is our belief about support if somebody's in a problem and I pull that person out of the problem is that support or the support that I'm with the person so that the person is able to navigate it the way he or she wants to navigate it including wherever he needs my help which is why I try to differentiate between two words I want to leave these two words with you for or with I'm again with the same two words okay do you want to be for the child is your supporting for the child or is your supporting with the trial.

119:44 So this is very interesting. I like I like these agreements, disagreement, but I'm saying please don't agree disagree with me. You will get nothing out of it. If you will disagree with me, then you will reject what I'm saying. If you agree with me, then you will do nothing with it. I'm saying there's a third option. Neither agree or disagree. Explore in real time. Explore. see what it does to any child and try out see what what strikes interesting to you.

120:18 So it's almost 10. Okay. No, almost not 10. It's already 10. So what do I want? Do I want to be for the child or I want to be with the child? Just because now the problem is bigger. We are like trying to say why do we want to make it into an intellectual and learning sorry learning and all that. I'm saying yes it is learning and it's very valuable learning. Yeah. What will we do with that? The life will be full of these challenges.

120:51 Why isn't that learning important? Why isn't sharpening those skills important? Well, one it is important. I'm saying to me I'm not saying to you. I'm saying it's important to me that the child has to use those abilities, sharpen those skills and that won't happen in theory. I can't give him in textbook beta when you face with a problem use your resourcefulness. I can't do that. It has to come from the child doing it. And and the best part the best news I can give you hundreds of examples. The best part is children are ready for it. That's the best part. Yeah.

121:29 in my um and I I will give you many many many examples as we go along. Okay. Um in in in my whole life of uh not whole life whole 20 25 years of working with children every time I push a child push not in the sense of me pushing it the situation pushes the child and we if I give that space to the child you know what interesting happens the child rises one obviously as I as mentioned the child knows that I have the support but support doesn't mean that they need to do it for me.

122:10 Let me Okay, I wanted to share a personal incident but that's a little long incident. So maybe I will share it in um in WhatsApp um the personal incident but let me let me end with a very very simple cute little tiny incident that u um there's a there's a person called Eric Ericson. I don't know if anyone of you have heard of it. He's also called the the father of therapy or many other such labels. Okay. So, Eric Ericson in his book talks about his childhood incident where a a horse strayed into his uh you know house and he was looking for some marking on the horse to know who is the rightful owner of that horse. Uh but he couldn't find any marking. So he just took the horse onto the road and the horse went sometimes here and sometimes there and he kept bringing him back to the road and then finally the horse reached the house and when the owner came out he said ah my house horse has come back and he was saying what magic did you do boy how did you bring the horse to me what how did you know this is my horse so you know what Eric Ericson said he said I didn't do anything I was just with the horse the horse let me to his home.

123:34 So that's the story for today. Yeah. But I'm liking this. Let's have more dish in the WhatsApp group. Let's have lots of discussions, whatever it is. But the real thing is it's for you to question yourself, not for you to question me. You can question me. I have no problem with that. But it's not it's what do you want? That's why that statement what do I want you have to think and whatever you want is absolutely fine. Each one is challenging your belief. So let's see for or with there's lot to explore. Two simple words but very very interesting journey. I've still 25 years I'm still exploring what does it mean to be with the child and it's a beautiful journey. Thank you.

124:30 >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> You so much. >> You thank you RNH. Thank you everyone.