Career Transitions: Investor Relations Discussion w/ Walter Pritchard

0:02 good morning everyone thank you for tuning in today I am Tanya Tang membership and programming director with CFA Society San Francisco on behalf of the society and our event Partners theer Silicon Valley it is our pleasure to welcome you today's webinar career transition investor relations discussion with Walter Pritchard a quick item to note before we start you will be muted for the event so we encourage you to type your questions using the Q&A box we will monitor the question closely and

0:32 Endeavor to answer as many as possible now this event will be recorded and a replay will be shared now I'd like to introduce Jeff hamr as our event moderator Jeff was most recently worked as senior director at NASDAQ and has served as a board board member of CF Society San Francisco welcome Jeff good morning thank you for having us I would like to take this opportunity to thank Walter Pritchard from Palo Alto networks for joining us

1:00 today for what will hopefully be an engaging conversation about his career and path along over the last 20 plus years Walter welcome thanks thanks Jeff thanks for having me absolutely so maybe we'll start with just a little bit of background of you know my understanding was is you were a a chemistry major coming out of undergrad moved up to the Bay Area what drove you from coming go from chemistry to the financial markets yeah so

1:32 it's an interesting story so I I I was you know as a typical undergrad you going to college not exactly sure you kind of know what you like but you don't know exactly what you want to do ended up you know really interested in in the Sciences did did the chemistry major really like the theory part of it as I got further into it it's it's all about spending time in the lab and I joke that I was all thumbs in the lab

1:57 and and and really didn't envision my future kind of in the lab and so I had a bit of a like a revelation my my beginning of my junior year had a chat with the guy who is my adviser a great guy named Fred geman who just retired as a professor and and I I sort of posed to him my my conundrum and he's like well my brother is was a physics major and is now in in the

2:21 Aerospace industry and he's on the business side and you should talk to him so I had a chat with with his brother and sort of realized like I could continue on with this chemistry major but I didn't need to be in the lab so I I I continued on with the chemistry major ended up doing like some internship work after my junior year in finance actually at a mutual fund and decided like I wanted to do something

2:43 I've always sort of said I I think I know what I want to do next or I know which direction I want to point so I I did that internship decided okay coming out of college what like I like that direction so I'll take a job in that direction ended up doing investment banking for a couple years which I think is a typical you know you come out of undergrad and you want to do Finance but

3:02 you don't know exactly what you do like an analyst role did that for a couple years and then you know moved into equity research because you know met some great people and they got me excited about it so that was that was the progression got and so you were it was about two years on the investment banking side before moving over to equity research and and in that you know a lot of people think of investment

3:26 banking equity research it's all from these you know large global firms was there a significant difference in your day-to-day you mean between Banking and research exactly yeah I mean it's it's you know banking is very transactional and so and I and I did banking during a time you know was like 98 to 2000 so it was just it was a very active time in the capital markets lots of IPOs and and so you're just sort of one project to the next or you know

3:53 three projects to the next three projects and I think the pitch I had from the research guys was hey you come into research you really get to like get deep on some some things and and become an expert and and and and so that's what got me interested I would also say the pace and lifestyle when I was in banking I you know I met my wife in college like we got we were getting married you know and and it was a bit of

4:18 like is this the lifestyle you know the banking lifestyle can be tough and I looked around at the guys in research and said that might look like a better lifestyle so so that also influenced the decision but I think really the opportunity to to kind of dive down in deep on on on a on an industry was was what was attractive to me coming out of banking where you're very transactional and and when you started in research has it always been on the

4:43 technology side yeah yeah so I did you know it's funny like when I so when I was coming out of the chemist with the chemistry major you know my dad actually his advice was well you know you know chemistry and like whatever he didn't know any of it right but he's like well maybe you do something biotech or F and you know Tech was hot there were a couple firms recruiting for Tech and I had done I could I could at least

5:09 talk the talk on Tech I had done some like programming as it related to the chemistry work I had done so there was a lot of opportunity in tech tech was kind of where it was at I was in California so I went into Tech and and I kind of got lucky between you know there's a bunch of different areas of tech I chose I I I went ended up going into software even in Bing doing a

5:30 lot of work in software which was kind of right place at the right time I I don't know that I was that scientific about it it was kind of like that's where the opportunity was so I went with it and I think software has been the right place right time for 20 years now right no no that's what I'm saying yeah exactly exactly I had it it's funny my initial opportunity in banking it was between software and semiconductors and

5:49 and now semiconductors are kind of back as well and I ended up choosing really really more personalities there was a banker in software that I that I had an opportunity to work with that I really liked him and and so I just was like okay I like working with him so I'm going to do software wow interesting and so you you you started out in research and around the Global financial crisis she moved from a very

6:11 well-respected Boutique firm to the city which is one of a global you know financial institution we all know in that change did you was there things that were very surprising in in that career change of going from a smaller firm to to a global shop yes so was funny every time I've I've changed jobs I've tried to get ahead of it and like talk to people that have that are in that are you know at that firm at a

6:35 bigger firm so everything I was I was sort of all the work I did about joining a bigger firm it definitely all played out I mean you're there's so many more demands on your time there's so many more salespeople there's colleagues in all Industries and so it was I mean going from from Cowen to city was was drinking from a fire hose for the first year and a half and and it was was it was just

7:01 trying to keep up with the size and skill of the firm you know I not only like I was covering this call half of software at Cen I was charged with covering everything at city so so it was a big step up in just number of companies you know my team grew by probably two and a half times you know we were Global you know I was you know first two months it's like all right you're going to spend a bunch of

7:24 time in Europe you know we're going to go to Asia like it just it it was I I sort of sensed I was getting into that from talking to people that were at bigger firms it was definitely even with all the preparation it was a major adjustment and you know I I would say you know I was in over my head probably for the first year just trying to keep up and then you you know you figure it

7:44 out and you you learn and and and dig in and and it worked out fine but definitely a challenge so so that initial belief that the cide research Life Style was going to be a little bit more U manageable than Investment Banking was not true to start I mean it's it's I found and I I only spent two years in banking so I don't know I don't know that I have enough experience to to say this categorically but I do I did

8:09 find that in banking you you the client made the choice right like the client's got something going on and you don't you don't get to tell the client I don't want to participate in your IPO or your your m&a transaction is not important to me on this on the cell side especially as I got to City I had a research manager who who basically very much imparted on you run a franchise you're gonna if you if you

8:33 have a successful franchise you'll be successful here I'm not I'm going to give you some best practices on how to run your franchise but I'm not going to manage your franchise dayto day so I did feel like I had at least the ability to make choices but you know no doubt for that first 12 18 months like I was I was working very very hard and as hard as I was in banking at the beginning and then

8:54 as you start to get control of it and hey what makes what drives success in a franchise what's Maybe not as important I started to you know like like moderate it a little bit but you know I I think it is hard to be successful at anything without just investing everything you have in it you just have to figure out where everything you have is and you've got a balance still other things you know family and and otherwise

9:18 and when you think about the skill sets of investment banker versus research and what were there some specifics of things that you needed to UPC upskill about you know was it man manage ing you know two and a half times as many people or was it the just dealing with the Global Travel what were what were some of those yeah well so so so when I went so I moved within from banking to research in my first you know my first

9:42 firm I was at Soundview for about six and a half years so there I would say banking to research is you know you're I think banking especially the junior levels is very quantitative it's it's like you're running this analysis that analysis I think you move into research even that the Junior you start to understand there's more to understanding a business and a company than just the spreadsheets and the numbers so I I started to I think

10:07 appreciate that and that was a bit of a actually enjoyed that transition I think then moving from you know smaller firm to to bigger firm I mean there I had one I had one associate working for me at my my first equity research role and it was it was very easy and you know you can almost you can manage my micromanaging right you just you're like this is what we need need to do okay you do this I do

10:30 this like it it's very straightforward you get a team of you know four six people you can't you have to start thinking about like what is the plan setting people's setting our team's goals how do you contribute to those goals really kind of more traditional management so I would say it wasn't until I got to city and had you know I think when I started there were five or six on the team like I really had to

10:52 start learning how to manage versus just doing like and even early on managing was an extension to doing right and then managing not managing you know you're managing in all different directions right I think that appreciating that aspect of it as well is is is something I started to learn and that the aspect of being a global firm matrixed and you know a lot of people pulling you different ways of deciding who needs what yep I I would assume it's very

11:20 important being successful at a at a firm like City yeah and you I mean you see every it's funny you see everybody's title and where they are in the organization and then you really start to understand the organization works and there's like the there's the there's the org chart and then there's how does our business work every day and who do you need to who do you need to influence to get done what you want to get done which

11:40 is more than just where are they on the your chart so so I would say learning that kind of soft side of of managing and and and you know again managing kind of laterally managing up that that that's that that became much more important absolutely and so and how long were you at City was there for 11 years okay so so a long time to get your processes in place and understanding how to run the the

12:05 research side yeah I mean I it took me you know took me like really 18 months to sort of understand how it all worked and then you know then I I think during that period I mean software really just the number of companies the amount of market cap just kept growing so for the for the middle portion of my career at City it was just it was just trying to trying to SC what we were doing in software because there were so

12:31 many more companies and and then me you know I think at the end I had we had a team of of of nine or t people and you know and then we had you know okay there's European software companies who've got colleagues doing Europe software and how how do we how do we influence them and then you know I took that part on and then we tried to staff that back up so just a lot of

12:52 like scaling like trying to scale what we were doing which I would say was you know I enjoy that actually I enjoyed I always enjoyed like there were new companies there were you know new people to to kind of bring on board I I enjoyed that I enjoyed the franchise model which city really I think did a really good job of like instilling in us as analysts that build your franchise to the best it could be there's no there's

13:14 no limit you can be the number one franchise within equity research so and and so you you have this your team built things are running smoothly you know you're you're succeeded by any measure in the corporate world what what drove that change to okay I've done this but let's let's think about something different yeah I mean I would say first of all like I had had over the years like it was a bit random right people come to me and say oh we're

13:46 looking for a this you know we're looking for a head of Finance we're looking for IR we're looking for you know A banks call hey I'm looking for an m&a Banker like just I had some random pings over the years and and and and sometimes they were from people like you respected so you you you wanted to investigate a little bit more so so it always had like a bit of oh there's other things out there maybe maybe I'd

14:08 consider something else I think what it was was a combination of three things it was it was definitely like the travel was kind of a grueling lifestyle that that was kind of all getting to me the second was and these aren't necessarily in order but that was that was one of them the second was I did kind of step back a couple times and say and my wife would almost like ask me this like you know where do you want to

14:33 be in five years what do you want you know what do you want to do next but more more all in the context of equity research and and I just thought to myself like I don't want to manage the research Department I don't want to move into another role at city and and then I started to look at it from the perspective of if I fast forwarded five years and I look back on those five years like what would I say oh I I

14:56 learned this I did this and I and it did kind of get to the point in equity research where I just said I like I don't know that the next five years look a lot different than the last five years and you know it's I didn't I didn't dislike the job but it was like what am I going to do over the next five years what will I look back on over the last five years and say I did that and then

15:16 you know the opportunity here came up and it was like okay well interesting I investigated it like I investigated a few of the others I was like no this is this is really it's probably the first time I talked to a company where they really understood like what my skill set was it wasn't like I have this role do you want to interview for the role it was more like I know what you do we need

15:38 help in that area you know we should talk right so so that I think set it up well and so I decided to investigate it more as as you know maybe some they're dialed in may or may not recognize like a covering analyst exploring an employment opportunity at a company that you cover is actually quite a sticky situation that you have to you have to you have to go by the book and so you know even deciding I was

16:06 going to seriously engag in that conversation some of the other conversations I had had were with companies I didn't cover but if you're the covering analyst you actually have to it has to be disclosed in your research if you're pursuing employment with a company you cover so so I I definitely took that that step very seriously but decided I wanted to do it and you know went through the process here and and it you know it it

16:29 it fit it fit the criteria kind of what I want to do next I looked back on equity research and said what will I if I do this new thing for the next five years versus you know staying in that for five years what do I think and I decided like I don't know what more I'll get out of the next five years in equity research like I didn't dislike it but but decided to try something new and you

16:49 know it's 45 so you're like at some point you know if you're 60 you're not going to say okay I'll I'll I'll do something new at some point you say okay not not worth it maybe right got and so in doing that you you likely built it sounds like you built a very large Network of people at all different levels different parts of city people that had left City and gone and and maybe done the same Journey did you

17:15 go through that process of reaching out to your colleagues and friends that had done a similar move to to get their the real take I should say definitely there were there were two there were two City analysts and one analyst who was at cow that all made a move from Research into finance and I talked to all of them and I heard a very similar story I didn't hear anything that scared me and in fact after I talked to all of them I

17:39 was like this this sounds like the right next move so yeah I definitely like like like I said even when I went from cow into City like spent a lot of time trying to figure out what it would look like so I'm a I'm like a fairly conservative decision maker generally so I would say did all my homework tried to learn as much as I could and a couple folks were were pretty helpful sounds like a lot of the CFA is on

18:02 the phone right you do all your research all the make a logical exactly from there and and when you got over to Pal networks you know here you're going from a financial firm to a technology firm was there a a lot of culture shock of just how it's managed and how the people operate so I would say the biggest thing I heard in doing

18:33 my work was in a like an industry internal role it's a lot more about how so so I guess the the summary would be almost everything that I experienced in terms of like difference I I heard or was kind of like warned going going into the role so but but probably the biggest thing was it's not the it's not what decision is made it's how the decision is is made the process by which a decision is made

19:04 inside a company I think as as analysts and people observing companies externally you just focus on like what was the decision did they make make the right decision internally it's really more about how the decision is made and and you if you're trying to get to what you believe is a right decision how do you kind of plot the path to to get there how do you influence the right people how do you bring the right data I would

19:29 say I was very much that was very much imparted upon me by folks that I talk to and that's very much turned out to be a big difference between my old role and and this role and and has your man management style or leadership style had to had to shift because of that yeah there's a lot more like in like at City run you know inequity research like I said you're sort of running your your franchise right and you depend on other

19:55 people for the success of your franchise you can't completely in your own world but you're much more you're much more doing your own thing I would say in in the role so I do investor relations I do corporate development which is our m&a I I was for the first three years doing some work kind of core Finance work our longrange plan I managed a product Finance team in those areas you're managing your team but you know our product is not Finance

20:23 right at palto networks our product is is is a technology product and finance is an enabler to us being successful in the market so you're constantly you know influencing others working across other businesses and I would say I I have had to develop that I knew I would have to develop that I've had to develop that you know much much more and that's been that's been almost like the key to having success here or not has been my

20:51 ability to kind of work more laterally with colleagues which I didn't have to do nearly to the same degree in in in the equity research world and as as people are you know dialed into this call thinking about hey maybe I want to make a switch I I work in Investment Banking or I work on the buy side I want to go to the corporate side any advice or thoughts of you know how they should approach that process you know

21:21 what skills might they not have that you're like you have to be able to communicate well if you're an analyst and you never talk to anyone all day that is not going to work over here you know is there yeah I think I think it's hard to build out every skill you're going to need for the combination of the role at a given company and maybe the way the company operates so I think what you're better

21:48 off doing is is to get in the door understand what you do well make sure you can represent that to to somebody in a in a corporate environment and then find the right fit for your skills I I think that's the I think I I think it's harder for me to say oh go out and take a course in this or develop this skill because I think you know for example in IR some some companies are very heavy on the

22:17 communications aspect of ir it's almost like IR is an extension of corporate Communications right others IR is very very tied into finance and like the Strategic Finance role and things like that so I think it is hard to say this is the list of skills you need to build but but I think I think like the collaboration and ability to work laterally with other folks I think is a is as I've already mentioned kind of a much-needed skill

22:43 I'm just not sure how you represent that as you go into a new role so so I think knowing what you do well and being able to articulate that being able to to align that with what a prospective employer needs I think is is is important and how how important at at Palo Alto or another company do you think just industry domain expertise is so if someone comes from a finance background in retail is that going to translate

23:13 you know maybe they're extremely good at modeling extremely good at all that is the learning curve on on the specific company actually a little bit easier than maybe some of the other I I think at a I mean you know I did I did this at a more experienced level right I think I think at a more junior level I think there are you know you like we hire for example in finance you know analysts and Senior analysts and so forth who who

23:38 might just have a given skill set that we wouldn't really care what industry they're in I think in a more exp experienced level I think it's harder to make a industry change and a role change so I think I think making a and and I would say also back in equity research like I saw people make industry shifts but they're still doing equity research in a new industry right whereas here I feel like if I were to have gone into a

24:02 different industry and tried to do what I'm doing now make that shift I think it's challenging so I think you almost figure out what industries you know the best and then figure out how your skill set which you're going to have to explain to somebody why your skill set in equity research or in Investment Banking or on the buy side is relevant to their corporate role at least you can talk the same industry domain knowledge and and and show your proficiency there

24:29 so I I think it makes it harder if you're trying to switch Industries the binocular is the same you know understanding what all those three letter four-letter you know words are that that people spting off yeah the other thing maybe I'd say just it's not a direct answer to a question you've asked but it relates to this topic so the piece that I find like we've talked a lot about like what I've had to upscale what I've had to do to kind of

24:51 transition in I think the piece that is lacking in internal you know in the corporate world that I brought that I think maybe I almost I I was told this as I was going in but everybody in the corporate world kind of has their like they're the they're in treasury they're in product Finance they're in sales Finance they they sort of have their their their area they have to collaborate with others but they don't know a whole lot about sometimes these

25:18 other areas internally and they also have no idea sort of the outside world so so like being able to bring the outside in perspective I think in finance everybody's got the inside perspective they don't have the outside in perspective I think the more that's needed at at a company and the more you can demonstrate you have that I think the more valuable you're you're perceived to be and and on that what was there other things that you wish you

25:44 would have known when you were at city or as a publishing analyst that you learned once once you got into Palo Alto yeah I would say when you're in equity research again you have your team your franchise sometimes when you have to get something done you just tell everybody we've got to jump on it and it's it's kind of all hands on deck sometimes you do that repeatedly because that's that's just how how it's it it it works I would say

26:09 in a corporate environment and with a bigger team that I the bigger team that I have now or you know or is the compan just growing quickly you've got to be able to put process behind it and be able to scale and I think I probably underappreciated that as I came in and you know it's probably still the less I learn every day is you know we're a growing company you know there's there's we have to move quickly you

26:35 can't you can't do that without without process established and sometimes you just got to step back and say Okay We're Not Gonna it's like Ready Aim Fire you know you've got to kind of put that put that process in place I'd say I'm reminded of that constantly even after being here for you know three and a half years and being at on the corporate side now and and maybe this is on the IR side maybe it's on the m&a side when

27:01 you're doing corporate development yeah is it is it a lot different having to interact with the CEO CFO and board of directors than anything you've done previously in your in your career I mean I think I think a good equity research analyst has to distill down what their messag is to make it simple and easy to follow because you're often as a cide analyst you're often dealing with like J generalist type investors not necessarily Tech Specialists that know

27:31 all the acronyms so I would say being able to do that is is a skill that has has worked well when dealing with the you know with our with our C especially our CEO on our board and and I would say yeah I've been able to leverage that I've been able to leverage that reasonably well I think you I just have to I do have to constantly remind myself you know you're I whatever topic it is you know i' I've

28:00 spent you know a hundred times more time focused on it than the person I'm presenting it to so you have to you have to make sure that you're you're constantly remembering that I think that that goes for even communication outside to investors right some sometimes the folks that I'm talking to they they kind of check in on us once a quarter right you have to you have to level set make sure you're putting things in a common

28:22 kind of framework and so forth that they can understand and what were your communication skills is that something that you just learned over time being on the cell side having to go out and talk to people all the time or was that something you very consciously have have worked on on on how how to commun Chris yeah I think it's just happened over the years right I don't think I'm I don't think I'm necessarily an expert at at

28:45 this point but yeah I would say you know our one of my directors of research at City said he's like like I listened to you on the morning call and software becomes so complicated he said he said listen to the oil team when they come on the morning call they say oil's going up here's why you should buy this sell this you know and so I would charge my team at city with oils going up by I

29:13 just have this joke like oil's going up by software but but how do you make something that simple in software and I haven't figured out what the what the analogy is to that in in in in in my world right now but I think thinking about things that way you know being able to explain it to your father being able to put it in that context something like that is is is helpful for for for just honing communication skills being

29:39 able to have it being able to talk to someone that doesn't know anything about the industry and convince them at the end of the day that this is something that they should be interested in y agreed and then be able to Pivot and talk to maybe some of the most sophisticated yep you know hedge fund investors out there yep yep and when when you are you know when you've kind of thought about the different segments of your career right or what

30:03 your current responsibilities are do you think of them holistically or is it very much you have your IR team you have your corporate development team yeah I I feel like at the end of the day our my my Collective team's role is to make sure we understand what's going on outside the company and make sure we bring that perspective you know in different areas of the company so in you know in corp

30:36 Dev we spend we spend a lot of time out meeting with startups meeting with you know companies that have some scale like trying to understand what is going on outside our four walls and then and then representing that to our teams and then helping them understand how what they're doing how what's going on outside relates to what they're doing because sometimes they're not that in tune with it similarly on the IR side you know again in finance everybody's

31:03 focused on there they might focus on you know this part of it or that part of it I think to some degree bringing it all together and how does it get represented as a set of results that are digested by you know the outside world is is is something that you know we do and then and then making sure they're in tune with where the outside like investor sentiment is and and and what other companies are saying and so forth so I

31:25 think bringing that outside perspective is is something that's tied commonly across I would say beyond that like Corp Dev andir you know we've done a few Acquisitions when it's time to communicate the acquisition like I'm I have an advantage but I don't think there's necessarily A Synergy in in in those in those two beyond that sort of focus on the external world and and you talked about managing expectations and that in how how different is that versus the

31:56 internal audience for the external audience you know and and maybe on the external side how different is that managing the long only you know plain vanilla long-term holder vers some of the faster moving money yeah I think I think on the external side the most important thing is to just make sure they actually understand what we're saying because I think if if you think about like we don't have that the number of conversations

32:28 happening in the in the in the investment Community around our company we're probably involved in 1% of them right the rest is like you know a csider talking to a buy Sider a buy side talking to another buy side like there's so many conversations going on around our company we need to make sure that that our message is out there and that it's understood by everybody they may not they may not they may have an opinion that disagrees with our view of

32:56 the market something like that but we want to make sure our our view is out there so I would say keeping it simple keeping it consistent you know externally that's that's where that's where we focus and you know we try to be you know we try to be very consistent across like long only hedge fund we want to know we want everybody to know what they're what they're what we're saying it may their questions we have to answer may be different but we

33:21 want to make sure that it's that it's very consistent I would say externally it's almost the reverse there's a there can be sometimes a lack of connection between the inside and the outside and and then if if we don't help everybody understand what outside expectations are they sort of operate in a way where maybe outside expectations don't matter so so we need to make sure that there's there is a there's enough

33:51 information internally such that people have that perspective they almost won't make up their own story if if they don't hear something whereas if we're not out with a consistent external story to investors I find that the market will make up their own message if you don't have a message out there and it seems to to be that communication is is an incredibly important part of your role both internally externally yeah and and doing that maybe to change the

34:20 subject just justly you know when you were talking about how you're always thinking about the next five five years you know yeah and and you've been at Palo Alta networks for four years yeah three and a half y so we're coming up on that fivey year anniversary maybe when you think about the next five years are you like hey look I got a great life company's you know doing really well really enjoy my job built out my

34:47 teams you know things things are going well yeah or you thinking like hey you know what maybe IR is the destination maybe it's not how you think about yeah I I would say like and even when I was at city and I wasn't contemplating any any change I would I would sometimes just just put together a chart and I would show this to my team this is where I'm spending my time this is where I think I should be spending my time and

35:16 and how do I and some of it was like like personal preference right I wanted to travel less so like let's let's let's adjust my time part of it was like this is where I this is what I'd like to spend my time on this is what I'm better at doing the team can do this other stuff so I tend to follow this model of I want to do more of what I like and want to do less of what I don't like or

35:36 more of what I'm good at less of what I'm not good at or that's the wrong way to put it because sometimes you don't want to CH you want to challenge yourself in areas you're not good but so I would say as I've thought about what I'm spending my time on in the job I'm in and maybe thinking about what I want to do next it's what do I enjoy or where do I add more value I I'll I'll focus

35:58 more there and and so I've definitely if I think about you know 2024 Now versus I came in in 2021 you know I'll give you an example I took on a product Finance team which I I it was it was super interesting I learned a lot you know I don't know that that's my next like to to almost like be the head of Finance like I don't know that that's my next role that I want to take

36:26 I thought coming in I knew what IR was it IR has essentially lived up to what I expected and it's been I I've enjoyed it I I I'll enjoy keep keep doing it if that's part of what I do you know the Corp Dev piece I I think is really fun I've always enjoyed understanding like external Innovation and so you know I've done a little bit of like oh I want to do more of this less of this you know that's kind of

36:50 even how I think about the next the next role like what you know there's things I know I don't want to be part of the next role and there's things I'm I'm spending time on that I would like to double down on and when you when when you're out thinking about with the audience that's on here adding members to your team and this could have been at City this could have been now pal out of networks or even earlier in your

37:14 career are there common traits that you know that people see when when you watch interviews or listen to podcast everyone's like oh be curious be curious you know outside of being curious is there something else that yeah I I would say I kind of bifurcate it in in in two two two segments of of people to hire right you're you're kind of hiring you're either hiring more at the entry level or you're hiring more experienced right at the entry level actually got

37:44 very very good at that at city you want someone they've got to have a baseline level of skill set right so that's table stakes and then you're really hiring for are they hungry do have a good do we think they have a good work ethic you know are they are they gonna like like the example I'd always use if you throw something at them they put it in Google and they don't find the answer do they come back to you and say I can't

38:06 find the answer or do they keep you know banging banging banging on it to to to find the answer and to solve the problem like that that work ethic that hunger to me at the entry level once I've established they have the Baseline skill set to do the job I need that's what I would focus on and and it's it's I it's never fa that's never failed as a hiring criteria for me on the at the more

38:28 experienced level it really comes down to like and this has been more here rather than INE equity research it's like what am I what am I good at and what am I not good at or what's going well on the team and what's not going well on the team and then you're trying to hire for what you need right and and what kind of person is that like like I mentioned I was probably a little light

38:49 on the process side so I have some really strong people on my team here that are processed people and you know one of them was here when I got here one of them I've elevated because he's very good on process so you just you compensate for what you don't have in your more experienced hiring because they ultimately have to they're they're they're driving the team forward they're sometimes representing you when you're not there like like you need to make

39:15 sure you have that you have that strength so I would say there you know I've only been here three and a half years kind of using that skill set I'm probably not as good at doing that as I am you know hiring hungry people at the entry level but you know that's what I've learned some and and when you're looking for that feedback of understanding where your blind spots are I guess I think this is important for anyone no matter where

39:35 they are in their career how how do you go about getting that critical feedback that you need is it from your peers your colleagues maybe the CEO has no quals telling you what you don't do well you know is there is there some process you go through in order to get that feedback so yes so I've been I think I've been so my style is I try to I feel like I should know that before anybody tells me that right I should be

40:02 self-aware enough that I have a sense for what I'm strong at I'm what I'm not strong at I would say then establishing with you know with your boss which is actually not that hard right if you tell your boss don't beat around the bush just when something's going well tell me it's going well when something's not going well give me feedback like if you and most most bosses they'd rather operate that way than have to you know put on kid gloves

40:28 and try to Nuance something right if if you just establish that with your boss and then some of are just naturally like that right they they're just going to give you direct feedback because that's how they operate but I think that's very helpful I think if you help like your peers understand that you're open to that feedback that's the next step and then I think the hardest step is like making your team aware that you're also you know you'll take feedback as

40:58 well as a as a manager right and and I think that's harder that's both harder to communicate because because ultimately you know you're the manager you you don't want to have have it be too much like management by by committee but I think if you're open to that they know they you are and then they use it they use it sparingly but they know they can use it I think that's that's all helpful yeah but you can get I think you

41:20 can get 75% of that from your boss got it and so if you were you know coming out with a chemistry degree again you know fast forward to today yeah would would you be heading towards technology would you be thinking oh let's head towards Finance because it gives you such a core understanding of businesses you know H how would you how would you guide someone at this point yeah you know it's funny I have a 20-year-old so like we're talking this

41:50 and he's an electrical engineering major and he he he's enamored with you know he's really good at math so so he thinks options trading would be the most exciting thing in the world and I think a look I think it depends on what type of person you are there's there's some people that aren't going to end up in Tech or Finance or or or whatever I think you figure out what your what you enjoy and what your core skill sets

42:18 are I think to do I think to be in most tech related roles I think to be in in finance you you you've got to be quantitative I I don't think necessarily nobody looks at nobody looks at my chemistry major and says oh you're you're you're not qualified to be in finance right they always ask like oh how'd you get into Finance I think the mindset is you know I I'll I'll catch myself using the the term rate

42:42 limiting step which is kind of a chemistry you know term I think you just like I've always I started off in chemistry because I thought it was interesting I thought there was a path there I thought I knew what I wanted to do over the next five years it turned out I didn't want to be in the lab so I sort of adjusted so I think you just keep going down the path that you find interesting and and and

43:04 definitely course correct is as as you go down the path and you know you're never going to you're never going to know where you're going to ultimately end up you know kind of where where where which which turn you'll take in in in the next set of options you have down the path and and as you were heading down your journey we're was moving from City to Pal Alto was was that a defining part of your career just in terms of what

43:29 your next steps were or not not significantly you were you're doing some over here and I think like again I think you're just on a bit of a journey so may like maybe you and I haven't thought about this way maybe you you you you retire right and you you you end your career and you look back I would say there are a couple like Forks in the road for me and a couple people at those Forks in the road that I look

43:57 back right now and say that was a big moment like like I actually enjoyed the investment banking work and there was a the first analyst I worked for who's not in the business anymore he he really helped me understand what what how where where he thought my skills would fit in equity research and he actually was kind of like you know it was a weird time it was like before all the regulation stuff so he said oh you

44:25 can try it out a little bit you know you're a bank but spend a little of time with me in research and we can learn to you can learn if you want to do this right he took the time to help me understand what equity research was about I would say you know there just a couple moments in my career where I'd say that was a critical point where I decided to make a to make a move and and it wasn't

44:46 about the move I made it was about the process of me making that decision so so in you know coming in here you know I did spend a decent amount of time with our CEO like what do you think my role would be why do you think you need it here and if it just would have been a a job posting at palto networks like oh here's the job take it i' be I don't know if that's the job I want or what

45:10 but but but helping to understand what they were solving for here helped me decide I wanted to take the role and you know I probably wouldn't have done it without that and and the it seems like there's been people have been very key to your career and your journey as they are is there anything you do in particular to to keep your network strong or you know in terms of making sure when you're back on the East Coast

45:36 you're reaching out to maybe some of your former colleagues to grab a grab dinner maybe it's you do regular conversations you know with how do you think about keeping no I'm smiling because we have a we have like a private LinkedIn group of of my my whatever 21y year equity research team like the people that work directly for me in equity research and with have a LinkedIn group we it's not maybe as active on the on the LinkedIn but you

46:01 know I'm in New York I do dinner with those that that team and you know I it's been mostly New York I kind of catch up with people one off in other cities but no I I enjoy that actually like they're all in you know they're all in different different spots they're you know some are some are on the buy side some are doing random things private Equity so yeah I've enjoyed that quite a bit actually just kind of staying in

46:24 touch and and you know kind of proud of it like there's side know there's 18 or 20 people in that in that group so it's it's been kind of a a fun group to stay in touch with and and is that your key sounding board or not does it just depend on what kind of decision you're making yeah no like you know not as much it's interesting like a couple of them yes but but a couple of them yes because I

46:53 value like the perspective I probably use others than than them like couple friends I have my wife like my wife's a very objective decision maker so you know I would say not as much it's it's more just like learning from them right they're all doing different things so you get to hear what they're what they're up to and and so forth what their experiences are and how and how they've managed their Journey right so because it's yeah also

47:20 just kind of practically like think about like I spend as a as a as a research analyst I covered like team covered almost 50 companies you know it's on the morning call every day you've had people telling you what's going on in the markets and and you know now I sit here I read I read some research but like I have a very narrow view of the world versus what I used to have and so I actually use those types

47:41 of people to just hey what's going on what's going on like what's going on with Microsoft why you know Stock's done well stock hasn't done well what's going on right I get to hear the pitch and and I I actually can easily digest like what's the investor pitch I hear that enough on on things I can kind of understand what's going on in the world that helps me understand what it means for us so I use it in in very real terms

48:02 yeah interesting are there any other and maybe Tanya I don't know if are we bringing people on to ask questions or do would you like me to just to do some of the moderated questions we have some questions in the Q&A box I fortunately our audience can't mute unmute themselves but of course they're welcome to submit them to the Q&A perfect thank you so you see these Jeff I see a couple here like there's there's a question on a transition from IB

48:34 into investor relations and you know what would you what would you highlight during the interview process I think I mentioned this earlier like I think you need to understand what they're solving for what what a perspective employer is solving for and how you can how you can be the solve right and if and if you're not the solve then maybe the roles maybe if you can't get that to match up maybe it's not the right role and you find

48:59 another role but but you know I I I don't know I have specific advice for like a coverage Banker but again I find that many of these companies do not have a very clear picture of what's going going on externally and as a coverage Banker you have you do have that view so that that might be a solve but I think figuring out what their pain points are what they're looking for to be solved I think I think can be

49:22 helpful and one of the other questions being asked is how helpful has going through the CFA program Ben in your career in terms of either people you met the knowledge base how how's that playable look I was at a for I was at a fork of the road in 200 two or three and I was trying to figure out no 2001 I was trying to figure out did I want to move into equity research did I

49:48 want to do something else I actually took the CFA level one I I I did you know studied for it I did well and I was deciding to want to do an MBA or or just keep on with the CFA and I decided look I like I like investment research I like what I'm doing I I kept on with the CFA I would say you know along along that cide Journey as well as in IR like

50:13 people see CFA and they're like oh you you must know this this and this like we can have a conversation using certain terms and and and and speak a language and so I think it's just been kind of a baseline that you know I never I never wanted to like go into marketing or you know take a very sharp turn in my career from a business perspective where maybe I would have said I need to go get an

50:34 MBA so I you know I I think it's it's helped me it's helped me more from just like establishing that that Baseline of credibility and and being able to be conversent with with folks and if you're looking at a stack of resumes that the HR folks have given you do you do do you're like oh they have their CFA or you know oh there yeah I think in I did in fact the first five years I was on

50:57 the cell side I told everybody I hired and said you're going to start working on your CFA right like so I Then I then kind of relaxed that they were like you know I started hiring people they had like they were married they had kids they're like I'm I'm keeping them busy like I'm not going to mandate they spend then more of their time on that so but I did always value it in in the in on

51:17 the cide world I would say in this world it's not as directly I think it helps again establish credibility so if I were hiring at the entry level there would be a number of things I would look at to help establish credibility that might be one I don't know that I I don't probably look at it exactly the same way as I did when when I was hiring on the cell side though and that makes sense I mean you

51:42 know when you're on the cell side it's it's the the curriculum is tailored for that much yeah exactly exactly well I I just want to say thank you so much for your time you know I I really appreciate having the to have this call and look forward to potentially doing something like this again in the future okay okay and T I'm happy to take if if folks want to do these like you send me these questions

52:07 offline or something I can some are very a little narrow but I'm happy to happy to follow up on those great well for any we'll take you up on that so if any questions you have for Walter that we haven't been able to answer please submit them through the info cf- sf.org email address and we'll be sure to forward them over to you and at this time I just want to wrap up the webinar and thank you both Jeff and Walter for

52:34 your engaging conversation I found it every very insightful and informative and I hope our audience did as well and we hope that everybody has a wonderful day and we'll see you next time bye everyone bye