This Conversation Will Change How You Think About Your Entire Life

0:00 How's everybody doing tonight? >> Good deal. >> Bill, thanks for asking me to to do this. >> Well, thanks for doing it. >> My pleasure. Um, we only have 45 minutes to talk about this and after looking at the book, that's going to be tough to keep it to 45 minutes. So, I want to jump right in. Um, if you're here, you know Bill's story most likely. um he's now written a book uh talking about the need for us to redefine how and what we pursue in life.

0:31 I think it's fair to say and this I believe I'll started because you surveyed 10,000 people with Wharton. You found a crisis of career regret across industries and income levels where you found that six out of 10 people say they would start their careers over. Now my question on that is how much did this mean that the system can one be greatly improved and how much of that stat says that hey us humans are just late bloomers who don't know what we know until we know it. Well, there's a couple there's a couple of different answers to that question. Um, Daniel Pink, who's a famous writer, wrote a book called The Power of Regrets, and he studied regrets and how they weigh on people. And it turns out there he he said there's two types of regrets. Regrets of action and regrets of inaction. A regret of action is where you do something and make a mistake and then you regret that you did that in the first place. It turns out humans are remarkably good at forgiving themselves for regrets of action. You're like, "Well, you know, lesson learned.

1:41 Time to move on. >> I'm human. >> Not much I can do about it now." >> Um, but the thing that weighs on people, especially as they get older, regrets of inaction. Yeah. He calls them boldness regrets. >> So, the thing you could have done, the thing you thought about doing, what you, you know, wanted to, you imagine this alternate life. Um the and and that's what really eats at people. >> Yeah. Of what we did not do.

2:05 >> The thing you didn't do that you intended to do >> what >> or maybe hoped to do or dream >> hope to do or what you know midlife crisises would be about. Oh, I didn't do enough now. Okay. Which comes with age and time. >> It gets worse with age apparently according to Daniel's research. >> So what part of that? >> And I think another part of it and and there's a lot of young people here tonight. When you're young, life seems like it's going to go on forever.

2:30 >> Gonna live forever. Yep. >> And so it's easy to postpone that thing you always intended to do because I got, you know, I got I got all the time in the world >> and then 30 and 40 sneak up on you pretty fast and then time all of a sudden looks short very quickly. >> Okay. >> Yeah. We're going to get into that a little bit when we talk about how we can better maybe instigate and uh um teach our kids through parents and and and education. But but on that on this on this original point with six out of 10 saying they regret from what they did not do. Um what when I say the system can be improved, what would you define the system to be? I think that that the educational system writ large, not not pointing fingers at anybody, has has evolved in a way that's gotten very um focused on a few specific job types. I think every parent and counselor out there cares deeply and well intended cares deeply about the economic stability of of their child's life. And so the we we've moved to this place where we tend to push people towards these so-called safe job areas that are out there and and and are a little less open-minded to what might seem like a frivolous interest or a a job that that is traditionally known as one that's very difficult to make money in. And so you tend to push people away from there.

3:59 And then I think it's gotten worse because um the competition to get into good schools has gotten so fierce that we start this uh Jonathan height calls it the resume arms race, but come sixth grade, you're in chess lessons, you're in lacrosse lessons, you're in theater lessons, you're you're learning a foreign language and volunteering at the SBCA and you're just and and the kids are so overscheduled relative >> to what they were when you and I were growing up and >> free time, family time, time it's hard to find. Yeah. Sunday mornings aren't even sacred anymore.

4:32 >> Yeah. And so when you're doing that, you get in this lane, you get focused, you know. And another thing, um, back 20 years ago, 30 years ago, they wouldn't let you declare a major until the end of your sophomore year. Wouldn't let you. Um, so you could >> your sophomore year in >> in college so you could explore and figure out what it is you want to do. And today at many schools, including including here, you have to apply to a major. So now you're moving that decision from 20 to 17 and then it just all gets everything slotted into these lanes.

5:06 >> Yeah. >> And then you know I think there's a lot of felt or you feel a lot of sunk cost because you you you grind you've been grinding and grinding and grinding and the kids you know they the young adults they reach the uh end of their senior year and they're like worn out. >> Yeah. >> And looking up going I've I've got a lot of so-called expertise in something I'm not sure I even want to do. Well, and then they they Yeah. And then they they also think, "Oh, man. I can't wait to get out there so I don't have to grind anymore." But that's probably not the right mentality for for hitting the ground with a new job.

5:38 >> Right. Right. >> So, all right. If that system, which talk about educational system and higher education, this university, many others, and go let's go, we can all the way go back from colleges back through high schools. What would you say? Let's go to the first teacher though. parents and parents, I'm going to call them educators. All right, which we're talking about. Hey, let's go meet the status quo. Let's go uh uh before I'm I got to understand what my child may have a talent for. Hey, you need you need to fill this gap. You have an opportunity there. Go get it. What can parents do you think can do different as the first teachers of what our kids we urge them to pursue? I would just be I would try and create a scenario where they can explore as much as possible and be exposed to many as many things as possible and then rather than I mean obviously if you're pursuing something like uh a pro alete or a dancer talent you know plays a huge part but I think for most job types I would arg I would make a strong argument that fascination matters more than talent um because the thing that's going to differentiate you in the long run is your ability to be unbelievably studious about a subject matter, especially after you leave the university. And to be able to have that capability, you have to just be insanely fascinated with the subject so that this continuous learning part comes for free.

7:10 It might even create energy. So rather than feel like a grind Yeah. like the moment you get to do more discovery in in your art. And I I like the word art rather than career because it it conjures up this notion of being great at it and understanding what nuance what greatness means from a nuance perspective in that field. >> And you're you're not searching for that unless you're, you know, literally in love with what it is you're chasing.

7:39 >> Fascination with your art. fascination with would that also be fair to say that's fascination with what your natural and innate abilities are. I guess what I'm saying is this. What I I always think when I'm talking about okay, you got to have innate ability and hustle. All right? And and and if I no matter how much I wanted to dunk a basketball, that was never going to happen. No matter how hard I work, I don't have the innate ability.

8:05 >> I think the knees over toes guy would say you could do it. But >> well, but I don't spend that much time trying to get good at that jump. >> But that's the thing. Do we find it? Do we find Can we Is our art is a good place to look for younger people is to start go, hey, what do I have an innate ability to do? >> I I push back on that a little bit just because like the I mean look at the SAT scores it takes to get into this university. They're all good at math.

8:30 >> Does that mean they should go do math? I just don't I don't know I don't know that that's enough like to just so certainly if if if you're if being good at what you're talented at gives you a ton of emotional energy so that you then fall in love with the art but I think you got to be in love with whatever >> first >> or definitely in the long run because you're going to burn out. Um, Angela Duckworth wrote this great book, Grit, that says it's 50% passion and 50% perseverance. And 10 years after that, in talking to a whole bunch of young people, she wanted to adjust the waiting and put more on passion because we've taught the young adults how to grind.

9:10 We've taught them how to move through the test and like sign up and do all the homework and write the big reports, but but we didn't spend any time finding out if they truly adored doing that activity. And eventually you'll burn out. If you don't if you don't really love it, you'll burn out. And more importantly, you might be competing against someone who does truly love it. And that's going to result in more learning for that individual, more connectivity, more mentors, more like everything's going to be easier for the person that that that adores what they do.

9:42 >> Okay. So, you're saying with parents, help our kids go, what do you see and watch, what are you fascinated with? Expose them to a lot of things. Don't lock them into something too early. See what they're fascinated with. Put fuel on that fire so they can create their art out of that instead of career out of that. Hopefully, they love that. They will become good at they love it because they can't wait to do it and want to do more of it.

10:06 >> Fair. >> Yeah. Can I can I ask you a question? >> Yes, sir. >> Can you share with with the audience the phone call you had with your father when you were at the University of Texas? >> Yeah. So, I'm here, University of Texas. We go 89, 90. It's the end of my sophomore year, you know, and those those courses you take are starting to funnel in and the electives can't just be, you know, applied to any major and I'm starting to have to really choose because I can't waste any classes and I'm headed towards law school is the idea. And all of a sudden, I'm not sleeping too great with >> Where did the law school idea come from?

10:41 >> Guy was great at winning arguments in my household. I I I could I would take the stand and and and make my case and even when I didn't get it, my dad would go, "Now God damn it, boy. You're good at that." And so >> you guys you guys had talked about this that >> we had talked about this. I was expected from 12 years old and criminal defense was going to be where I was headed and that's what interested me. Uh, but I wasn't sleeping good with that idea because I said, "Okay, I'm out of here at uh 22. Then I've got to go to law school. Then I'm not actually going to be able to put my mark in society to actually live it out until I'm 30." And I said, "Boy, I don't want to waste my 20s just getting educated." And I had been writing and I'd been trying to do some performing. And I had a good friend at NYU was like, "Well, y'all what about film school?" And I that idea intrigued me. But I also thought it was too avantguard, too too much of a a weekend hobby of an idea, right? And anyway, I got the courage up to go, that's what I want to do. But I still got to call dad because dad's paying tuition, right? And I remember the call. I said, I'm going to do it Monday. Then I was a no, I'm not going to do it Monday because I planned this. I said, Monday's first day back at work. He's feeling more stressed. I don't want to ask him then.

11:50 I said, Tuesday? I said, Tuesday at 7:30 p.m. because he's into the work week. He'll be home from work. He's had dinner with mom and he's having his first beer on the couch. Good time to catch him to tell him I want to go to film school. I call him 7:36 p.m. on a Tuesday night. He answers at the phone. I said, "What's up, monkey man?" I said, "Pop, I don't want to go to law school. I want to go to film school." And I'm waiting. I feel the beat of sweat come up on the back of my neck. Long pause. Here it comes. I'm about to hear it. All of a sudden, I don't hear that. And I hear this. Uh, well, you sure that's what you want to do, son?

12:26 said, "Yes, sir." Another long pause. All of a sudden, he gave me the three greatest words I did not expect but needed to hear. And he said, 'Well, don't halfass it. And I lit up and flew at that moment. I really expected him to go, "You want to do what? Hell no." Well, you can do that on your hobby on a Saturday. We don't do that. You get a job, you go to work. Like, that's where he came from. You get a job, you work up a company ladder, and you be glad you got a job to go to that can pay the bills. And uh I he instead heard me heard the shy in my voice cuz I was asking him but he didn't hear me stutter and I didn't he heard I wasn't bluffing.

13:05 He heard I'd sort of made that decision up in my mind and he said don't halfass it which gave me a launchpad of responsibility and privilege and excitement to go do it. Um but I did not expect that from him. >> Yep. >> At all. >> Well I think thank you for sharing that. It's actually in green lights, which is how I knew about the the story, but it um it kind of epitomizes what I hope this book can do for so many people and and ties in with it kind of what is societal's reflection on a decision like that. There was a reason you had anxiety about telling your father that because in most situations, a child would be afraid a parent would would prefer law school over film school and would push back on it.

13:48 >> Yes. And so that that I think be like Matthew's dad is a >> Well, let me let me ask you this about this because I found an analogy that's similar that I think parents feel that I alo also think American capitalism is is about when I had I had made my mind up that that's what I wanted to do when I called my dad and he if I would have stuttered and he said and I said dad I I I I don't think I want to go to law school. I think I want I think I think he want to go to film school. He'd have buck back cuz he'd have heard me stutter. My boy's not sure yet, >> right?

14:24 >> He wants to be an entrepreneur. He wants to go his own way. I've raised him to be this. Go up this ladder. You're going to be a lawyer. Walk the company line. America says that too, right? >> Yeah. >> But then when I didn't stutter and he heard I wasn't asking permission. >> Yeah. >> He goes, "Don't halfass him." Yeah. >> Doesn't the West doesn't capitalism look at entrepreneurship the same way? The initiation process is going to be a hell. Oh, you want to break out and do it your own way? We're going to make it tough. But once you do it, it sure seems that the West applauds and goes, >> "Where you go, you broke out on your own."

14:55 >> I think that's true. Once you get through it, but but I wonder how many people never even ask the dad or never even think that they could go that path and and just don't do it because of all the expectations that their society might have, that their high school teachers might have had. Like there's you got a lot of people telling you >> Yeah. >> what what's what's a good path and what's not. >> So >> in society >> we're young people again. You talk about if we were more we talked about young people want it seem they're going to live forever right but they're not. You realize that later but or maybe you will shoot nowadays. I don't know. We'll see. But you said if young people were more reflective early on or you found that when young people were more reflective early on >> the survey the survey work suggested that. Yeah. More reflective meaning they they they thought longer and harder about what they were going to go do.

15:53 They had a better understanding of how they might be successful doing that. they've tested other theories. Um, as opposed to people that might be in a major because one person told them, you know, one teacher told them they did well on one test. They, you know, their their father was this, so they got in it. Like th that'd be less reflective, like more of a a reactionary move to be in a place. >> It's part of that reflection projection, meaning the thing young people don't want to do because I'm going to live forever of stopping and going, you know what, let me You did this. As I understand, you thought when your in your first couple of jobs that were good jobs, you thought down the line, how am I going to feel?

16:34 >> Yeah. >> Down the line about this and you said, bored. I don't want to do this. I'm going another way. Is part of that reflection for young people if can you project further in future and go, hey, is this what I this what I'm going to be doing? Am I going to be happy doing this when I'm 35? >> It's part of that. >> I I was able to do that twice. I got into a job um that I liked, but after a couple years, I was able to look around and in any almost any work environment, there's someone in the organization who has spent their whole life in that career, which gives you an ability to just imagine what it would be like to do that. And then yeah, I asked myself the question, do I see myself doing this 30 years ago? And twice I got to a place where it was no and and pivoted in a new direction. And that's another thing I would share with young adults. Just because you have a major in something and and you get your first job in it, it does not mean you have to stay in that place forever. Um you can move around by by the time I think in the book um designing your life by Dave Evans like 40% of people are outside of their major within five years and by 10 years it's over 50 >> are in a different place. And just knowing that, I think opens up a lot more possibility in your brain of what's feasible. Like just knowing that, not feeling stuck at any point.

17:53 >> I'm going to go back though to colleges and higher education and high schools because we've already talked about parents, but so so the university system though. So So should we do we need more liberal arts major students? Is that what you're saying? There there are uh Sir Ken Robinson has like two of the most favorite or famous TED talks of all time. He makes that argument strongly that that creativity in any field is what really differentiates someone on the side and that we've we might be stifling creativity just by what the school tends to focus on. And I'm obviously not talking about the University of Texas, just higher education in general. Um so it's possible. I think the other real challenge is any large university or even high school um it's very hard for them to manage a bespoke career process for each ind individual. So they have to build systems that can punch through hundreds or thousands. So you you know you have you invite the biggest companies to come on campus and line up interviews and and that puts you as an individual sitting there one against 30 and you got 10 minutes to differentiate yourself and I don't think that's an ideal way to really differentiate what you might be capable of. A lot of people that I know um create their own job path. Now, once again, the school can't do that for everybody, but they they they put themselves in a position where they're a candidate of one because they know what they're looking for. They know the best place to go to do that. They might they might know that the smartest people in that field are at that place and they show up and they say, "I know the smartest people in the field are here and I want to be a part of it." You look very different than if you're sitting through an interview process.

19:40 There's a great story in the book about Tony Fidel. And Tony Fidel invented the iPod. He was the head of engineering for the iPhone and he invented Nest. Very successful human. But um he was at Michigan and fell in love with the Apple products and read in Rolling Stone magazine that five of the early Apple people had left to to go start this startup. And he decided all by himself, I'm going to get a job there. And it took him six months. He knocked on the door. They told him to quit sending letters. Yeah. Um we go into detail on in the book, but he wanted to be in that place that that that was a candidate of one. He wasn't com he was creating a job. He was trying to talk them into making a job for him.

20:27 >> Yes. um which is just a very different attitude and process which by the way there's a great documentary called General Magic which is free on the internet which is about that company which didn't work but everyone that went there ended up doing a whole bunch of great things and you'll see a 22year-old Tony Fidel in in the movie >> which is awesome. All right. So, the the the jet fuel at the source of each one of these success stories, including your own, seems to be knowing though >> what it is you're fascinated with, what it is you want to do. Yes.

20:59 >> That's a big question. I know I'm still is for me sometimes today, >> knowing what it is I want to do. >> Yeah. >> People at that age, I know I went to school 21. I wasn't sure what I wanted to do. I walked in the right bar, met the right guy, got cast in a movie. Oh my gosh, I'm This is fun. It pays well. Can and then invite me back. It sort of found me. I did take advantage of certain opportunities. I wanted to be in the field of storytelling. But let's talk some more about a lot.

21:27 >> So let me let me do let me briefly tell people about the book. So um >> well actually I should mention because um it's important. There's a famous saying at Texas what starts here changes the world. I originally came up with the idea for this subject and this my interest in this subject giving a talk at the Mcome school here on campus eight years ago and that got posted on YouTube. Some people noticed James Clear who wrote Atomic Habits noticed and reposted it and reached out to me and that's what led to me eventually writing this book eight years later. But along the way I did a lot more research. We did the Wharton study um went through all the academic literature but in the end the book is is unique in that it has profiles and principles. So stories of success and tools of success and they're they're interleddable and fun. That's what I'm hearing from people. That was the intention. Um so long long I just wanted people to understand the structure. The first principle is chase your curiosity. And it's all about helping people identify this thing that they're fascinated with.

22:38 And it presumes that most people don't know when they start the chapter. And so I've I've gone through all the the literature, all the great courses that help people with career direction and we give them just a ton of tools to figure that out. Um, and it and and it's it's wonderfully okay if you don't know what it is. It's better than I think knowing >> remember that >> and my kiddos too remember that it's okay to go man I I don't know.

23:06 >> Yeah. And you can and then you we talk about wandering with a purpose you know go try something see what you like. There's a there's a gentleman in the book that came up with this idea of always having a side hustle. So when he lands at a new company after a while he asked him hey in my spare time do you mind if I do this other thing? And the and the companies all were like, "Wow, he looks very proactive. He's trying to do multiple things." But then he gets two shots on goal to see what he likes.

23:34 He gets more exper. >> And this guy, this this guy that came up with this idea when he he when he was at Microsoft, he started Microsoft Garage, which is how Microsoft interacts with startups. They loved him for it. He ended up at a VC firm because he got connected through Microsoft Garage. He asked them, "Can I start a podcast?" So he starts a podcast as part of Madrona Ventures that becomes the acquired podcast which is the highest revenue podcast right now in in in the world I believe.

24:05 >> And he's he's tickled pink doing this for a living. >> But it took he had to wander to it, you know. He had to >> wander with purpose and two shots at the the go. >> Two shots on go. >> Okay. You're talking about wandering with purpose. It reminds me that you say Bob Dylan hitchhike,200 miles to meet a dying folk singer. Mr. Beast did thousand day Skype calls with four strangers. Danny Meyer quit 125,000 to make 250 a week. What's the common denominator in the pattern there?

24:33 >> All of all of the people that we profile in the book, well, not most almost all of them had this moment of intentionality where they decided that they knew what it was. And some of those are are more extreme as Bob Dylan hitchhiking to New York to meet a mentor. maybe maybe the most uh ambitious mentor pursuit of all time. It's certainly the most consequential. >> Um >> and um Danny Meyer was making over 200 grand a year and and was about to take the LSAT, similar perhaps to the the the path you had been on. his polysai major um had always talked about going to law school and his uncle Richard like your father um was out to dinner with him and he said Danny um you look down what's going on he said I have to take the elsat tomorrow and his uncle Richard said do you have to are you sure I don't think you have to and his uncle said all you talk about and all you love to do is hang out at restaurants apparently when he was a kid he would take journals of the restaurant experience. Pretty unusual thing for a kid to be doing. And and Uncle Richard told him, "You've always talked about restaurants. You should open a restaurant."

25:53 >> So, we need we need McConna Fathers and Uncle Richards in our life >> to get us headed in the right direction >> to tell us what we already know that we can't define for ourselves. >> Yeah. Well, and once again, society may be telling you, in this case, Danny's own father had had a couple of he was in the broadly in the leisure business and it had a couple of bankruptcies. So, his father wasn't encouraging that path because he had struggled on that path.

26:21 He needed an uncle >> to say it was okay. Um, those of you that don't know, Danny Meyer may be the most successful high-end restaurant tour of all time. He he would end up opening 15 restaurants in New York, several of them Michelin Star. And then once he had done that, he started trying new things and he created Shake Shack, which you I'm sure you all know. Um, >> yes, we did. >> And he's a wonderful, wonderful, wonderful human. He hosted the book launch party on Monday at the first restaurant that he had open.

26:54 >> So, it was very nice. >> So, there was a common denominator of intentionality. Yes. all them that before they made their pilgrimage or their big big their big choice which the world was saying no to they had somebody that reminded them no >> I see this >> and one thing I would tell you if you don't know what you want to do or if you want to think about what you want to do these the modern tools the AI tools make this super easy but but in the book designing your life he says create three scenarios and battlecard them so spend spend one evening saying what if I were to go do this and get on an AI and say what would the first six months look like? How would I beg my way into a job?

27:33 Build a game plan, you know, for for this one scenario and then do it for two more and then just walk around for a while and see how they hang in your head. >> Yeah. >> Like like you can virtually take a direction these days in a way you never could before. >> Right. And you're not asking about the result. You're just >> trying to discover whether you get excited about the planning process. >> Yes. >> Like if you I think if you literally if you said I'm gonna build a one-year game plan on how I would get into this career.

28:05 >> If building that game plan isn't fun, you have your answer. If it gets super exciting and you find yourself listening to podcast and whatnot, you're getting pulled in that direction, >> right? It's a it's super easy test and you don't that doesn't cost you anything to try that out. >> Um >> we were talking about this a little bit backstage and I have this in my latest book poems and prayers. It says when asking for something that you do not yet possess, the answer is no until it's yes. It's talking about appropriate expectations etc.

28:40 >> And you say a no. No cost you nothing. A yes can dramatically change your life. If someone does not respond to you or outright rejects an invitation for coffee, that no might sting, but you are no worse off than you were before asking. Why are we so afraid of no? And how do we get past that? What >> I mean, it could relate I I haven't done any survey work on this. could relate to just how competitive this process is for kids up through college like in getting in and you're just so um worried about any non or any like you just get trained to win win win and it doesn't build much thick skin >> right >> uh and the no the no can hurt or like you like it just haven't been taught that it's all right you know you got to relax you know I do meet some young adults who are more kind of ambitious and somehow they have a little >> gene that tells them it's okay and they just keep pushing. But but broadly speaking, most people really struggle with this.

29:50 >> Yeah. >> And and when you get out there, you know, you're going to be looking for mentors, you're going to be looking for opportunities, and you got to be cool with it. >> Yeah. >> When I decided that I wanted to get a job on Wall Street, I did what you read about in books. I I finagled one meeting and then I started calling the other research directors at these banks and said,"I got a meeting with so- and so.

30:11 Can I come in for 10 minutes and talk to you?" I ended up talking to 10 different firms and nine of them gave me a no. You know, when I first applied to business school, I got eight nos and two yeses, >> you know. >> So, nos are part know that no k know that no o is part of the hustle. I would like to think like in some of those cases like >> it it actually can provide you fuel if you feel like you know what I'm gonna prove those people wrong.

30:41 >> Yeah. >> But you got to channel it in the right direction. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm I I have always I mean let myself even still to this day know that if I'm not getting rejected enough then I'm actually not taking enough risk. This reminds me of a story in the book that I'd love to share, especially because we're in Austin. So, there's there's a there there's a successful person in this town that likes to talk about using mistakes or are you failures is energy? Like how do you turn failures into energy? Like he taught himself this, but quick aside, it relates to the subject of the book. So, this gentleman is 40 years old. He had he was a seismology undergrad, geology undergrad.

31:25 Worked in seismology for I don't know 10 years. Uh eventually ended up down in South America. Got scared because it was dangerous. Wildcatted for a while and in out in West Texas. So he decides that can't handle that anymore and he becomes a mortgage broker. So he's he's doing that for a while. Kind of bored. Doesn't really care about it. He's watching PBS one night and they say, um, take a blank sheet of paper and draw a line down. Put what you love to do on the left and what you're good at on the right and see if you can draw any circles around that.

31:59 Um, the gentle that did that that night is Bert Beverage and he was 40 years old. Bert's nickname is Tito and he went and launched a spirit brand the next day which is now the bestselling spirit in the in in all of the country. Um, but he didn't do it till he was 40. He didn't find that thing until he was 40. The the piece I left out is he would gift flavored vodka to his friends and they they all loved him for that. And a lot of times I would tell you hobbies might be really cool places to find the career you love >> career >> and a lot of the stories in the book come from hobbies >> because hobbies are what you love to do in your free time. One great test of whether you're really fascinated with something. Would you learn more about it on your own instead of watching Netflix, you know, or something equivalent? Yeah.

32:48 >> Like it's a really good test of how much you're really excited by the subject matter. >> Could you say would you learn more of it rather than watching Netflix >> perhaps? Yeah, sure. I mean, you hear this word flow a lot. >> I think when people are are studying something that they really >> are fascinated by, they don't even realize they're doing it, right? Like the time passes. They're in it. Yeah, you know, >> I met a um I was talking to a guy today on a podcast actually and his son um was going down a traditional path and really wanted to get into film and they had had that kind of conversation and he pulled on some threads and anyway he said yesterday the the young man was at a George Lucas Museum and he called his father after a day there like high as a kite like in a in a George Lucas museum.

33:37 You know, if you're go if you're going to a museum and walking out high as a kite, there there's the the world's telling you something. >> Yeah. >> Look at the sign on what kind of museum that is on the way out and engrave that. Take that home. Tattoo that under your eyelids. >> Exactly. >> Yeah. All right. What's the relationship between obsession and success? >> Um I think it all goes back to this continuous learning element. And you know, if you are super obsessed with something, you just love to study it.

34:09 And that's where I like that word artisan. Like there's this there's an anecdote in the book where where uh Kobe Bryant had won three NBA championships and three MVPs. And that summer he calls Hakee Elajuan and says, "Can I fly to Houston and learn how to do better moves in the paint, better footwork in the paint?" So he's accomplished everything. He loves the the the art of learning more about the craft even with all that he's accomplished. And that if that comes naturally to you, if you're in a lane where that comes naturally to you, I bet I bet a lot of actors are like that. Like they're just studying what greatness is on and on and on and on.

34:54 >> Am I right about that? >> Yes. I mean, when that's one of my favorite feelings and why I actually love to go to work and go act. It's a singular obsession. It's actually vacation, >> right? >> When you're obsessed with something, it is vacation because there's a lot of the other things going on in the world that you just don't don't don't matter as much and you're singular focused and feel like, you're in the flow state >> and I'm on it and I'm seeing it everywhere. I'm dreaming about it. It's all through that lens.

35:20 >> And you use the word vacation. I love that. I've never heard that applied in that context, but a lot of people ask me about work life balance. And if your job is drudgery and you're losing energy from being out in it, you come home and you're exhausted and then you can't be your best self. And if you if you're on vacation all day, well, you come home, you're you're just fine. Like you got tons of energy to go.

35:45 >> And so it's it I mean, I think it really matters like how easy it is to learn. >> Yeah. like and doesn't come naturally. >> Yeah. >> What do unhappy successful people have in common? >> Um I think there's a good chance that they um put money first. And you know, everyone in this book would they all started at ground zero, many in fields that their parents would tell them not to go into. They all did fine financially, some of them extremely well, but it wasn't the intent for what they were after. And so I I fear especially with all the the fear and anxiety that's pushed in society these days that that people might choose a direction just for that reason. The other one is just burnout. Yeah.

36:31 >> They just get out there and they don't love it that much. Yeah. >> And um and and the survey results show that I Gallup poll did a survey in 2023 and 59% of people said they're disengaged at work or not not enthusiastic to be there. That's a lot. 59%'s a lot. >> So, I think and and combining that with the career regret stuff, a lot of people don't end up in this special place that you just talked about.

36:57 >> Well, it's another thing that's worth repeating in here, especially with all the the the youngsters in the room >> because we're sold every day. We see it every day. The gold medal goes to the one with the most money, the one with the most toys, the richest, the most powerful. What you're saying is, hey, that's not that shouldn't be the only singular quantitative thing that you're all reaching. That lane is packed with people trying to get there. There's a lot of other lanes that have room for you to swerve and find, which maybe you won't have the highest number, but you'll have a hell of a lot of a higher profit and quality of your life.

37:38 >> And and you'll be more differentiated because if you're coming in there fire blazing with passion, people perceive it. >> Yeah. >> You know, one one of the things I say is um study the history of your field. And most people don't think about that. There are few fields like like architecture where everyone studies the history, but in a lot of fields you don't. Imagine, you know, you're in an interview and you know everything about all the pioneers. That shows reverence.

38:06 That's very differentiating. There was a world chess tournament where they took a pause in the middle and did a trivia contest and Magnus Carlson won the trivia contest. He he he loved chess so much he had read all the books. He knew he knew all the he knew he knew the bedrock. I got invited to a dinner um at John Lacier's house who's the creative genius behind all the Pixar works. >> Um it was someone a friend of mine won an auction item which was this dinner and he did a 10 course meal for us in his screening room with the 10 historic cartoons that impacted his thinking the most and he walked through each one of them. And once again I go back to this notion of artisan like like do you care enough to do that? And if you do, man, you're differentiated. Like you are really different. I'd say study the history and study the edge. If you know what's going on on the edge of your field and you know the history is like this barbell thing, >> what do you study the edge?

39:05 >> What's the latest thing that's happening? Like how is AI affecting your field? How does Tik Tok affect your field? Like I think most young people wouldn't think knowing about Tik Tok could be an advantage, but if you are going into a marketing job at Kellogg, I guarantee you if you know a lot about Tik Tok, you're interesting to them because they don't and they need to, >> right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> And so the I I love that the notion of the edge, which is whatever's newest in the field and and the bedrock for for principles and for reverence.

39:36 >> They're very differentiating if you do that. This one was an interesting one to me and I got a penny, but I want to hear yours before I speak mine. What's the relationship between knowing what you want and saying it out loud? >> Um, I think that that a lot of people don't end up chasing their dreams precisely because they might be afraid that it sounds too cavalier or quicksodotic and and they don't ever really take a step in that direction.

40:09 And once again, I mean, saying it out loud, certainly you start to to hear feedback from it. >> So, you said it's an engine to say it out loud. You're making a verbal contract and you're sharing it with people around you and they're expecting that reflection coming back at you and you're starting to act like that person who wants to do that. >> I think any anything that can be disinhibiting can be very valuable. Jerry Seinfeld was in New York thinking he wanted to be a comedian and he read a book called The Last Laugh that that profiled 14 pro comedians and he said until he read that book he did he was he he was inhibited thinking it's too hard it can't be real. Anything that allows you to have more of a sense of the possibility yeah is helpful. That could be talking out loud. Like I said, it could be just having a conversation with the AI and building a one-year plan and filling in those details cuz then everything seems more possible, more real.

41:02 >> So you're talking about a dialogue, whether it's with AI or whether it's with a mentor or whether it's with a peer. Get the dialogue started and that starts going back and forth. It becomes that that that idea that you have that secret that you have >> and it's either going to gain momentum and have energy which is all a great sign >> or it's going to die and that's okay too. Either one of the answer, we go back to the no. Even if it ends up being the no, if it dies, there's your answer.

41:24 Thank goodness I found out. >> No doubt >> it burned out. >> That's right. >> Let's move on. >> Let's move on. >> Gotcha. Um, we talked a little bit about that. I want to add that. Um, you have a Tom Petty quote though, which goes back to what we were talking about earlier, which it isn't just the chase. You have a lot of un unhappy, successful people who just did it for the money and they're not happy. I know a lot of capital B billionaires myself who I'm like, damn, man, they ain't happy. Not all of them, but I know quite a few. But this this Tom Petty quote is what is it?

41:58 Uh um find something you love and hope you can pay the rent. >> Yes. And the rest will take care of itself. That's what he said. >> Is that your >> I put I put it at the end. >> So that's sort of the the see you later uh lyric. I mean, I I kind I think I kind of prefer life is a use it or lose it proposition. >> It's a little more profound. Get you in the face, but that one works, too.

42:22 >> All right. But speaking musically, um >> I also start with the with a Pink Floyd quote. Did they get you to trade your heroes for ghost? Which is a little deeper. Um >> unpack this one for me. Did they get you to trade your heroes for ghosts? >> For ghost. Yeah. And I I'm I'm putting the uh the hero being the dreams that that are kind of your craziest idea of what you could be and ghost being the kind of safe job >> that that you get channeled into.

42:52 >> So we got more ghost than heroes out there, >> I think. So >> watch it, right? >> Yeah. >> Don't be blinded by the lights. That the majority is ghost, right? That's a good thing for us to hear. That's the idea. By the way, I wanted to mention one other thing because we've been talking a lot about um categories like music or or film or or the there are a lot of fields or even sports where you look at the field and you say, "Man, I got to be that athlete or that talent.

43:24 I got to be that actor." And I would tell you, and there's many profiles in the book, there are tons of jobs that support, you know, the individual talent. And if you really love one of those fields, you might be surprised if you do research how many careers are possible >> in that industry. There's a there's a woman we profile in the book, Lorie Bartlett, who grew up, all she did was watch movies every weekend, three or four movies, but never considered it a possibility because she wasn't an actress and knew she didn't have that talent. Yeah.

43:59 >> Um, so she followed her father, Polyai. Her father was a mayor. She's like doing that stuff. One day someone says to her, "You know, you could be an agent or you could try and work in an agency and she starts like as the receptionist in an agency." >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Loved it so much. You know, she got in there, there were a whole bunch of scripts no one was reading like started reading them like and found her lane and the rest is history. She's one of the most successful agents of all time.

44:27 >> I'm going to piggyback on that story. I, as I said earlier, I went to film school here because I knew I wanted to be in the storytelling business. I couldn't admit in my dreams that I wanted to be in front of the damn camera. I had buddies that were like, "Dude, try it." Oh, no, no, no. I'll be behind. What I was really doing was in an I was going to Hollywood because I had a production assistant job.

44:51 >> Well, >> that's why I went to Hollywood. I didn't have to take it >> because my first audition the week before the production assistant job I got. something like, "Oh, >> this is fun and it's better pay." >> And I that is another thing I would say which is um you know there's a almost any successful person you talk to had not one but two or three of these moments where it feels like luck where something happened but you can increase your surface area for luck increase your probability of luck. Yeah. um by being in the right place, by connecting with as many people as possible, by finding mentors, by finding peers and and there's also a a principle in the book, go to the epicenter. And if you if you are in a field like finance, you know, go to New York. Like if you're in a field where the action is >> like Yeah. If you're in a field like like songwriting, you got to go to Nashville. like and you if you immerse yourself in this place where everyone is doing the same thing you're doing and I I went to Silicon Valley. I can't tell you how much the probability of luck increases because the happen chance meeting could be any day because everyone's doing the exact same thing.

46:04 >> Okay. But on that a lot of people go whoa why would you want to go where all the competition is? But you talk about embracing your peers. >> Yes. So, sever several of the principles find find peers and ride alongside of them. Find mentors. Study as much as you can about the field. All those things are 10 times easier if you're around people that are doing it all the time. Okay? And it's fear. I know it sounds crazy like, "Oh, I've never been to Silicon Valley." Like, how's how frightening might that be? All those people trying.

46:35 But man, the the atoms are just bouncing into each other all the time. You could go to a networking event in Silicon Valley every night of the week. I'm not saying you should, but you could. Yeah. Like, like there's just that much happening in the field. You, you know, if you ever been to LA like and you go out at night, they just talk about TV series constantly. Like, is that all you have to talk about? That's kind of how I feel. But they they roll around in it, you know? They roll around in it. And so the hap the the the probability of luck can go up dramatically if you play your cards right >> and if you're in the spot where the action is or the epicenter of the industry that you're pursuing something in.

47:16 >> Correct. And if some industries are more spread out and then you know conferences can play that role, virtual connectivity can play that role. >> Okay. Um before we move on to that I want to talk hit mentors real quick. Why mentors? How do you reach out to mentors and how do you what what's a good mentor? >> So I think most people >> you talk I want to just preface this with talking about a mentor is not someone that calls and go hey like your book can I get the job >> and you don't go yeah right then you go well you give you talked about giving homework.

47:46 >> Yeah. >> It's amazing how many people fade out. >> Yes. When you give a little homework I did do that. So, I I think people are told to go get a mentor and they all immediately shoot too high and get a no and then they're like, "Well, that didn't that didn't really do anything." Um, and so two things I would say, use AI and podcast and YouTube interviews and create a set of aspirational mentors that you're not going to meet right away, but study them as if you might like like be a fanboy of them. You might the way someone might be of Kevin Durant, but of like 10 people in your field. Danny Meyer did this in the restaurant with that that next day after Uncle Richard set him going, he made a list of 10 people like Wolf Gang Puck that were changing the game and he studied them. And so that's that's what you do with the people that are too far away. And then in terms of finding a mentor, just back way down. Find someone two two rungs of the ladder above you.

48:45 Don't try and get the CEO. Yeah. And that person has never been asked to be a mentor. So they'll be flattered. >> Yep. >> And and they'll they'll and you'll tell them, "Oh, I saw you know these things and they'll they'll sign up right away. You'll get way more yeses." And just work your way like like don't shoot so high. Yeah. There's there's plenty of people out there that want to help and and be the be the first one that ever ask them.

49:10 >> Yeah. >> And you're going to find a very rich relationship. He brings up a good thing that I didn't know and then I realized once I did it but how flattered someone is when you call to go you mind if I pick your mind on if you approach them in the right way. >> You approach them in the right way. They're they're very flattered >> and don't ask for too much in the first meeting. Come come with a very simple ask. You build a relationship. Don't say will you be my mentor for life.

49:35 >> Yeah. >> We'll meet once a week on Wednesday. >> So every day at five o'clock we do an hour. Actually, I'm going to move to your town next door. Uh, all right. So, is it true you're in a fight with Willie Nelson since this book came out? >> Oh, fight? No. >> Well, you got these He's got the lyrics, "Mamas, don't let your babies go cowboys." >> Maybe doctors and lawyers and such. What I'm hearing you say is, >> "Yeah, we don't go be outlaws."

50:03 >> Yeah. Exactly. Yes. Yes. We're pushing back on Willie and maybe people over listen to Willie over the years and >> probably I think he was making a joke too. I think he's for the outlaws as well. >> He might be. He might be. Yeah, >> but it if you interpreted directly, he's suggesting you should push people into the same jobs everybody's pushing everybody else into. >> So, watch the ghosts. >> Yes, >> there's more of them than there are heroes.

50:30 >> Correct. >> That's good math to know, gang. So, the world's set up not to help you figure out what you love and are fascinated with. Know that. Give you a little underdog oomph. >> Well, I I think your ability to uh dent the universe is a lot higher if you're if you're running at something with this this like hyper curiosity. >> Yeah. >> Like you're you're going to find the edge. You're going to end up being an innovator in your field. You're going to touch a lot of people's lives.

51:02 >> Yeah. and you're just going to make a difference in a much bigger way. >> Yeah. All right. I want to get to the to audience questions, but before we do, I got I can't help but ask you one thing about AI. Everyone keeps talking about AI is going to create all these new great jobs for humans. And I know people are getting laid off now, but it's going to create more jobs for humans. What are some of those jobs? I haven't heard anyone say what those jobs are. Do you know?

51:25 >> Well, I I would say Yeah, I would. I mean, here here Mark Cuban the other day said something interesting. He said there's two types of people in the world. Those that use an LLM to learn faster than they ever could before and those that use an LLM to avoid learning. And I think it's really profound. And if you're one of these people that I'm describing who's hyper curious and focused on being the best they can be in a in a career they love, AI is a jetack superpower because you can learn faster than you ever could before. You can run faster. You can you'll soon be able to have it build agents that can help you do even more. And and people that are high agency, this thing's wonderful.

52:08 I've met some local entrepreneurs that do like uh I met this guy who's in the storage contain like storage business and he he's he he came back to me go you know I I wanted to open a fourth location. I typed in this thing what I what the type I'm looking for. He gave me like four neighborhoods and looked up where the buildings were for sale. He's like this is amazing. Like he was he was like smiling. He do you know it'll do this? Like he was so and and just compare that to someone who's sitting there going on their heels going, "Oh my god, it's going to take my job." Yeah.

52:39 >> Like are are are you leaning forward or are you leaning back? And if you're leaning and by the way, if you're in one of those safe jobs and you don't really love it and you're not paying attention to what AI can do, you probably are. You probably have reason for concern. Yes. >> Like the the >> that's a very nice way to put it. The number one thing you can do in your career to protect yourself against AI is to be the most AI enabled version of yourself you can possibly be and to understand in your field what it's possible of on the edge. If there are 30 people in your company and you know more about how AI might affect that company than the other 29, you're pretty safe.

53:17 Yep. Heard a lot of ghost out there, gang. Let's beat them. All right. Yeah. Let's take some questions from the uh audience, please. Anybody? Yes, sir. >> Yes, sir. Orange hat. >> AI. >> Thanks very much for that kind. So, we talk about being more AI savvy and you know, how much we can produce in comparison to these machines, but I think a big thing, and I be curious to hear your thoughts there, Bill, on on the acceptance of human fault. I think that's a pretty necessary thing to have an idea on, take stock of what we we also make mistakes on as catalysts to to become more productive and I'm wondering your thoughts on that uh as we we go forward in this new >> take a question again.

54:03 >> So I'm just saying uh just wondering your thoughts on taking account of human fault too. I think we've got a big drive right now to be more more productive and and compare ourselves to AI and it's definitely handy but I'm wondering as being uh conducting ourselves in an honest kind of human way beauty of being human is to make faults and I'm wondering what your thoughts might be on that >> there are there are a lot of people who have made this argument that and and there's principles in the book on finding mentors there's this principle that's one of my favorite about how you co-evolve with peers and there's a chapter in there about our great athletic director Chris Delcante, which I highly encourage you to read because it's a peer journey like no other. Um, and so there are a lot of people that have been talking about what you're suggesting that like the human connectivity element will be more differentiated if the rope work part kind of goes away because if you learn to just be wrote at something, you're really at most at risk. I would also say LLMs are really good at studying the history of best practice that's already well understood and so all the formulas all that stuff is baked in there and so that the value of knowing the rope part is less interesting the value of knowing the nuance the edge of what makes that's why I like to use this word artist like if you understand the nuance in your field of what's really separates greatness from from just being good.

55:31 Maybe that's not in the model. And so that's another really safe place to live except it requires continuous learning to always stay in front of the model. And that gets back to that's going to be really hard to do if you aren't passionate about it. So I I I come back to the same place. But but yeah, next question. Black hand over here. Raise up. Uh yeah. Hello. So uh you mentioned differentiation a couple of times. Um so I think it's fair to say you both are pretty differentiated. Uh so I'm sort of wondering at what point in your sort of journeys did you start to feel oh okay at this point I'm like a category of one in other people's minds.

56:19 >> I remember I remember for me um I was actually at school here um trying to figure out what I want to do. I just started film school. Um, and I was in a movie theater and it was Full House and uh, something happened on screen and I thought it was really funny. I was the only one that laughed and a lot of heads turned around back at me and I remember going like this at first, but then during that movie and many other movies that come up, there were things that would happen on screen and the whole place would laugh and I'd be like, "That's not very funny." And then I would laugh and be the only one to laugh. sometimes. And I went from being, oh, am I weird, am I strange? Am I embarrassed? Like going, no, I want to stick with that. I also noticed in my life that, man, boy, I cry at birth, but I'm not crying at funerals. Is that weird? I don't know, but that's it's not against the law. I ain't hurt anybody, so I'm going with it. And so, I started to point out little idiosyncrasies and notice them myself. And instead of running from them, as maybe I had before, I started to just lean into them and go, "Admit it. Admit it." And I started to see things where my sense of humor or what I got joyful about or what I got sad about maybe different than others. And I wasn't trying to be different. I wasn't trying to be different. I just had some things that I was different about. And I just I didn't try to advertise them and I didn't try to hide from them. And I just said, "That's that's who you are. Stick to it." And I just noticed I started to understand my own monologue better. And then when I understand when we understand our monologue, we can have a hell lot better dialogue with people.

57:58 >> I don't I don't know if I have a moment precisely, but I do I do feel like I always had this kind of tilt towards being independent and independently minded and searching for um searching for the spots where maybe the general consensus was off. I wasn't a comealong kind of person. Um and and so I I think it once I got confidence in a lane that really that voice got louder in my head. Um and uh and and so I was always looking for an opportunity to to to take whatever I was doing to a level that was different from what everybody else was doing.

58:40 >> Even >> that certainly happened on Wall Street. Even if what they were doing, you were like, "That's a valid fast ball. That's a great move. >> You'all got that. You all have that covered. Let me find something else." >> I would study the best practice and then figure out how to to to get above it. >> Okay. >> If I could. >> Okay. >> And a few things in Wall Street. I definitely did that. >> Right.

59:02 >> Yeah. >> Yes, sir. Right there in the green shirt. Yeah. Right there. Um, thank you guys for speaking. I really enjoyed it. Um, my question was in fe in fields like film and Wall Street, venture capital, these are very noble pursuits that I think a lot of people may be really passionate about, but perhaps the barriers to entry are difficult. They don't have the resources or lack some of the skills necessary to enter into these fields. So, what advice do you have for people that may be passionate, really passionate about something, but perhaps lack the ability to uh get into the field that they are passionate about?

59:50 >> I'm let Bill start this because I know you're six out of 10 were from all different incomes and everything that regretted where they were. >> Yes. Yes. And and you know, every one of these stories in this book, people started on the bottom rung. And I I don't know it like how will like it's a real test of whether you're really passionate about like how hard will will you go do what Tony Fidel did and spend six months telling this one company that you got to work there? Like I I don't know how determined you're willing to be. Would you start on you in the mail room? There's there's a book about Hollywood called It Started in the Mailroom because David Geffen and uh who else? Barry Dillard. Like there's there's like three four of the top executives in the thing started by sorting mail. Um Lori Bartlett, this woman that became an agent started by being a receptionist in the building and so did so did Jen Atkin who is a great story. She started as a receptionist in the building. So I you know it's a once again it's a real test of how bad do you want it. Um but but you could be exhaustive about and also you don't have to get there tomorrow like there you can you can have a plan that's a four-year plan like just start thinking about what it might look like once again um game plan like you once you use AI to do this like what might it look like? How might I get from here to there? What would the steps be? And if if that exploratory journey gets you more excited, I would keep after it, you know.

61:23 >> Yep. >> What were you going to say? >> Um, no. I'm just sit on that answer. I think that covers covers a lot of it. He asked the main question that's individual everybody. How determined are you? And he's given examples of people that started at the at a bottom level. I mean, you know, I could look at at my own story and go, there's nothing I came from that said this is what I should be doing right now. I did take a few opportunities was in places at the right time where I hit an opportunity that ended up when I got my chance. I tried to make a count and luckily did felt like I did and maybe that was time that was more than just time a day getting lucky. But boy, I've got some good fortune that that has sure happened to me. Um um but yeah, I mean I think that's the best that's the only affirmative math we can we can go is there's no guarantee of any of it but there isn't anywhere but the only thing you can guarantee is is up to each individual how determined are you and can you define what it is that you're fascinated in with yourself and how far and long are you willing to pursue that? Would that be fair on that?

62:26 Yeah. >> All right. Next question. >> Come on up. Yes sir. Can you yell at that since you don't have a mic? >> Of course I can yell. I just want to say thank you. You guys >> no costume. No, that's my whole life. I feel like it's value intelligence above everything else. And now I'm starting to learn. I feel like action is what really matters to the point where learning is import.

63:03 trying to fail as much as possible because stumbling and doing is better off that paralysis analysis that I constantly find myself. So my question is simple life action or does it reward intelligence? >> Well, did you stay at a holiday and express last night? >> Oh, intelligence or action? Oh, well, good one. I mean, hey, it's a great parlay when you got both. Let's admit that. >> Yeah. >> Because I know some people and I've been one myself where I'm paralysis of analysis but no action. I've prepared myself so long that I when I finally got there, the game was over. You know what I mean? I didn't take action. I've also been and seen quite a few people who and I've faked it till I make it many times before to get things done. But I've also seen and been sometimes that person who goes, "Oh, because I think I am. I'll just be that [ __ ] Yeah. And show up and don't know and act and when they're when it's time to produce or show the merit of the quality of it, they don't have it because they didn't know. They were just going to they just took action without getting the intelligence or the preparedness to learn something. So combination is the great parlay. I think you're talking about right now I'm hearing you saying oh all this intelligence which maybe we have AI with knowledge there only a human can take the action and fail and have the experiential learning kind of that's what I heard in between your lines I was raised on the experiential learning we were you know but I was raised by some real outlaws who didn't didn't chase certain education but pulled a lot of rabbits out of their hat yeah to get things done. So I when you get a combination of the knowledge and the street hustle, that's a good tune.

64:52 >> It does make me reflect on the AI thing again. I fear I hate doomerism talk. I hate negativity. And one thing like if if worrying like first of all Steven CVY talks about knowing what your circle of influence is, things you can change and things you can't. No matter what you do, no matter who you complain to, you're not going to slow AI down. And the sooner you can recognize that, the better place you'll be. And I fear that we're freezing people by fear, creating fear. And and that's where I reflect with with I agree with what you say about action. Like you can't there's no value sitting around worrying. That's certainly not going to help you get out of the situation.

65:35 >> Yay. >> Front row. >> Yes. Front row. Stripe. Black stripe. Twitter. Yes, ma'am. >> If you have If you had one thing you um you wanted us as the audience to take away from this conversation, what would that be? >> One thing they this audience to take away? >> Yeah. I I I well I I'll just try and summarize some of this, but like I do feel like the world's tilted too far towards this safe job notion and that most of the systems that are in place are very likely to channel any one of you in that direction. And I would just encourage you to take pause, read through my book, and see if you get excited about about a different path. And and and if you end up on that path, because I already have talked to people that watch the video and shift it 180 degrees, they man they get so happy like they get really fulfilled and happy. And I think that I think that's when you get in that state, I think it's contagious and you that happiness and energy flows to other people and I think it just makes the world a better place. So that's what I hope you take away.

66:51 >> Yeah. I I think another thing and is that even when we've talked about the majority of the world being ghost what we're told to do and expectations and etc etc there not one thing that Bill's talked about and I think this is very important he's not a contrarian to that at all you embrace the fast ball the left lane of any industry everywhere at every at every turn you okay I appreciate that but my way is this so it's not again we were talking about individual uality and what are you learning? It's not about going I'm going to be different than uh f that. I don't want any. Uh-uh. You can appreciate that. Like it's talking about AI.

67:30 Embrace it's coming. Oh yeah. And it's in the left lane on the autobomb, >> you know? So embrace that, but still you can still go I want to how where do I fit in? What's going to be my thing? >> What can I do? So what do you love to do? >> What do you love to do? Black and white stripes. >> I like business. >> You like business. >> There you go. >> There you go. right there. Boom. There you go. Yes, ma'am. We got another question right next to you in the black sweater.

68:00 >> Um, if Wait, >> do you have any advice for anyone who wants to be a future entrepreneurship person? >> Who friend of these questions? >> Did your teddy bear ask you to ask you that? I smell a lemonade stand in your future. >> Bingo. >> Yes. Lemonade stands. >> Ribbons.

68:30 A line of ribbons that go on your teddy bear's ear. Cuz everyone's got a teddy bear. Next question. Right here. Front row. Right on the right side. Right here. Hat on. Um, >> how important has uh goal setting been in your career? And are you still setting goals um yearly at this age and after quote unquote making it?

69:04 >> Goal setting. >> I didn't know I looked that funny when I said that. Goal setting. It's um Look, I have a strange relationship with goals. I I I have this in green lights. I wrote down 10 goals in my life in the fraternity house at the Delta Tall Delta House here on campus in 1991. I put them away in a book and I forgot every one of them. I found that piece of paper again in 2021 and I had achieved all of them >> but not from conscious.

69:45 >> It was unconscious. >> Yeah. >> But it wasn't but it wasn't forgotten. Yeah. >> Because I could look back and notice I had pursued each one of those. >> And it goes a little bit to that back to the it's almost the reverse side of the thing about what we want to do and saying it out loud. There's also a power that comes for when you have a secret that you can really believe in that you don't say out. I wrote it down so I said it. All right. I wrote it down to myself. I said it out loud to myself and and but I didn't share with anybody.

70:15 There also can come power if you're very clear about what you want to do or achieve that you can put it away and it could be a secret. You can have a lot more power than sometimes sharing it where it becomes public. I think that was my relationship with goals. So, I found that the goals that I say out loud for me, it almost takes the magic away from maybe it's partially because of what I do in the in the business. We do that in acting. If you if you say what you're doing and if you're doing someone's doing well and the director comes up and goes, "Oh, you did this and that."

70:44 You're like, "Sh, don't say don't say it. It was the magic. It happened." Don't name it and claim it sometimes. >> I kind of like that. I I agree with everything you just said. We have time for one more question. >> One more. Who's up? Waving hand right here. Wide here. Waving hand right there. Glasses on. There you go. >> You encourage misfit behavior. You know, we stayed much longer. I don't know what we'd see. >> Thank you, Bill. Thank you, Matthew, for coming.

71:16 >> Yes. You're welcome. >> My name is Pedro. You might not remember that the next day. But the question I have for you is we've talked a lot about us or not us but I the individual today and I think it's really important to remember the Wii of all of it. I have had a falling out recently and I've thought about that a lot and what I can't stop >> you had a what recently? >> A falling out.

71:41 >> Yeah. And what comes to my mind is we only have each other. And I think we forget that sometimes. The relationships we have with each other are very very important. And so when I think of what I want to do next with my life, it's to help people, to serve people. I think of this quote that was uh said at um an MIT ceremony and it was collaborate and help one another. be brave in reaching out and forgiving in your interactions.

72:14 And I just want to know what the two of you think about that. >> Ahead on that. I I don't think the I and the Wii are so separate. I don't think the individual and the collective ideas are so separate. Everything you just said is wanting to help people. And who's that going to most help? You very selfish thing to do to be unselfish for you right there. and to do things that could help other people that will feed you. So that's the most selfish thing you could do. Bravo.

72:44 >> Yeah. And we didn't we didn't spend as much time on it, but if you look through the book, I think you'll see that collaboration is a big part of what I recommend. There's a after the section on mentors is this section on peers and it's all about having the trust to share your ideas and your network with more people. And that if you can have a mutual association in that way, you can watch each other rise. That's what the Chris Delcante chapter is all about. And then the last chapter, which we didn't get to, is tied titled always give back.

73:15 And it's about having a a mentality towards graciousness and gratefulness all the way up. And so I I actually agree with you. I think the best way to win is is to share as much as possible and be connected as much as possible. Amen. Thank y'all.