Joe Rogan: Visibly Angry During a Heated Argument With Harland Williams

0:00 Imagine how [ __ ] rough it would be you're in the woods and you're camping out with your buddy and you see a pack of dire wolves that recognize you and you know it's over. >> Well, the thing with wolves though, Joe, and you probably know this, wolves traditionally don't hunt down humans. >> That's not true. >> Huh? >> That's not true at all. >> I don't know, is there any record of a human being killed by a wolf?

0:19 >> 100%. There's record in modern times. Oh, no, that's not true. They That's the reason why they eradicated them from the West Coast. >> I thought that was because they were they were snatching the cattle. >> No, they're killing people, too. That's what the Big Bad Wolf and the Little Red Riding Hood is all about. They would kill your kids. That's what those stories were about avoiding wolves cuz wolves were dangerous. They're deadly. Do you know that World War I, the Russians and the Germans had a ceasefire because so many of them were getting killed by wolves in Siberia?

0:47 >> Really? >> That they decided to have a ceasefire, kill the wolves, and then go back to killing each other. >> Cuz my experience is wolves are very trepidatious of humans. They fear them and >> We killed most of them cuz we killed most of them. >> But that wouldn't change their hunting instinct. Now, if there were still packs roaming wild and free, you don't kill the instinct out of them. Cuz then you'd kill their instinct to kill an elk or >> seen wolves, you've seen wolves in Canada.

1:14 >> Yeah. >> They hunt them in Canada. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That's why they're trepidatious. That's why they're nervous about people. >> Can we look up how many humans have been killed by wolves? >> rare, mostly happened in Europe and Asia. >> Yeah, see, it's not common. >> It's because we killed them all, Harland. They're not around anymore. That's the whole point. The reason why they got killed off was cuz they were a [ __ ] problem. It's not because, you know, people are evil and it was a terrible idea. It's cuz they wanted to live and they knew that the wolves were [ __ ] killing everybody.

1:45 >> I think the problem was they were killing their domestic cattle. >> 100%. >> But not the people so much. >> too. >> Really? >> Yeah, they killed They don't have rules, man. They're predators. >> they're also Think of it. Every living species. Why is it I can go to a park and a blue jay and a squirrel and a deer and a bunny can be just fine completely different species but then a little boy walks up a human and they all just go There's this driven instinct in all animals to fear us which breaks my heart cuz most of us are loving and want to cuddle and connect with animals but even insects, dragonflies, hummingbirds, nothing wants to be near us and so wolves also all animals are trepidatious of humans.

2:33 It's sad but it's true and if that's part of the bigger program we've been talking about what does it say about us? >> First of all, animals are not trepidatious of humans. >> Have you ever walked up to a wild animal? >> I've walked up to a lot of wild animals. I know I know that you're being silly but >> I'm not being silly. >> Okay, so realistically all those animals you said blue jay, deer, those are all animals that eat plants, okay? If a dog showed up they would run. Any animal that's a pri that's a predator is going to scare them. Whether it's a human, we have eyes in front of our face. The reason why you have eyes in front of your face like that is cuz you're looking to go after something. When you have eyes on the side of your face, you're looking for something to go after you. So all those animals like deer and all these little cute little animals, they're all prey.

3:18 >> Right. >> all like super sketchy with anything that has eyes in front of its face that's looking at them cuz we are a [ __ ] predator. But it would be the same if it was a coyote there, it'd be the same if a dog was there, if a cat or a big cat or a lion was there, if they saw it, they would all freak out because they're prey. >> Yeah. >> Now wolves have killed people. Fact, 100% all throughout time. If they catch you alone >> It's >> you in the woods and if you and five of them, they will kill you.

3:49 >> It's it's it's we're not on their dietary list though. Look at killer whales. There's never been a human killed by a killer whale. >> Only at Sea World. >> Right. >> Because they Well, that's different. >> So, why? That's a living mammal and there's millions of people in the ocean every day, but there's no record of an orca killing a human because they're trepidatious of us. >> No, they're super intelligent. They >> and coyotes >> trepidatious of us. They help us. They communicate with us. They play with you.

4:19 >> I know, but I'm just saying it's not common for wolves and apex predators to go after humans. It happens, but it's not common. And wolves, they're very skittish animals. >> Okay, they're skittish if they're around people and they think the people might have a gun. If you're in the woods, wolves are not skittish of you. They're thinking about what they're going to do to you and whether or not they're going to eat you. If you have a rifle and you're in the woods and they hear the boom go off, they're going to get the [ __ ] away from you because you might be hunting them.

4:50 >> I'm just saying there's an an instinctual fear of humans for whatever reason. >> Dude, that's not true. >> Most critters avoid us. Even fish, if you walk up on them. >> all pre- predators. All of them. >> Yeah, but look at the plains of Africa. You'll see a wildebeest and a zebra and a gazelle and a springbok. >> walked out in the the wild of Africa? >> You're done. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, because you have lions and leopards.

5:18 >> there. All those animals are freaking out, too, until one gets taken out. This is the Joseph Campbell story of the hero. Like one gets taken out and the other one's going, "Wow, he did it for us." Because when that the lions are eating that one antelope, they're going to leave you alone. You can relax for a little bit. >> Yeah. >> That's what it is. >> I'm just saying >> They're never calm around lions. They run. That's why they run.

5:40 >> Right, but I'm just saying wolves are probably more more to step around us than attack us. >> They are more inclined to do whatever they need to do to survive. >> They will. They're opportunists. >> And if it's attacking your sheep, then they'll attack your sheep. If it's killing your dog, they'll kill your dog. If it's killing you, if you're 20 mi into the back country and you're camping alone and you don't have a weapon and a pack of wolves shows up and they haven't had anything to eat for a few days, >> They'll take you down.

6:10 >> They'll take you down. >> But I'm just saying I'm I'm I'm just trying to instill into you with all this programming talk, there's something programmed into all the other species on this planet. They go, "Whoa, there's a [ __ ] human." >> You're wrong. >> And they step around us a lot. Not that they won't kill us, but >> It's anything that's coming near them, they get away from. >> Right. >> The reason why they're scared of people is cuz they have experience with people.

6:38 That's what it is. Yes, wolves do. Well, wolves in Canada they get shot at or afraid of people. They know that people have the gun. The guns make the boom. They're smart. They A bunch of them die. They see one of them die. They learn that. They see the gun. They see the stick. They run away from the guys. So they stay away from people cuz people might kill their family members, their pack members. It happens.

6:58 >> I think we're splitting hairs on this one. >> listen, there's a difference between the way bears react in say Alaska than bears react in Montana. So in Montana you can't hunt grizzly bears. So grizzly bears are not afraid of people cuz generation after generation after generation have not been hunted. >> Right. >> When bears see you in Alaska, that's generation after generation that have been hunted and they react very differently. They're like, "Get the [ __ ] away from the people."

7:23 >> I'm just saying that there's an element to, sadly, our human existence that scares a lot of critters. A lot Most animals can exist together in the same area. And yeah, when a when an apex predator approaches, the zebras will run, but if you look at the hoofed animals and the hippos and the everything kind of coexist, but when a human walks in, you know, we can't walk up to critters and just pet them. You can in the Galapagos.

7:56 >> Okay. >> Are we >> No. >> Are we having a fight? >> No, but a lion >> Are we having a fight? I'm taking my shirt off. I'll wrap my legs around you so fast. >> It's not uniquely humans, man. It's all animals are worried about something that wants to eat them because that's a real part of their existence. It's all animals. If you let your dog loose and you're let it around wild animals, they [ __ ] run like crazy, man. They run way more than they do with a person.

8:23 >> Let me rephrase it. If a wild animal comes up on a deer, a predator prey scenario, >> Uh-huh. >> instinctually they know a predator goes into stalking mode, the deer's gone. >> Right. >> But if a human, me or you, go, "Oh, look at the deer." And we try to walk towards it with nothing but love and affection and we just want to pet it and it's gone. And that's what I'm saying. >> You're not saying [ __ ] because a dog the same thing would happen. You're not making any sense.

8:55 >> Yes. >> Of course the deer doesn't want you to pet him. It doesn't [ __ ] know you, man. What are you, nuts? >> Right, but it they just they just flee. >> They don't flee like they do with dogs. >> A squirrel >> I have deer in my neighborhood and when they see me they don't give a [ __ ] They don't care about your car. You're you're driving in a car, you could stop the car and roll the window down, go, "Hello, Mr. Deer." And they just [ __ ] stare at you.

9:16 >> All animals are like that. >> a dog, they'd [ __ ] run. They'd run like crazy. Even my golden retriever, my sweet golden retriever Marshall, >> Yeah. >> they run like crazy from him. They blow, they make those crazy noises. >> Yeah. >> [ __ ] take off. >> They stamp their feet. >> scared of predators, dude. They're not scared of people in my neighborhood cuz no one's eating them in my neighborhood. It's their conditioning.

9:39 >> I don't know. I'm just talking about >> You're just stuck You're stuck on an idea. >> [laughter] >> People are bad. >> The people are uniquely bad. I wish we could just go hug the porcupine. >> No, I'm not saying people are bad. I'm saying that animals have something in their brain that they don't trust us. >> Cuz we're the apex. We're the top of the food chain. >> But it's it's it's just sad that >> It's way better than being at the bottom of the food chain. Way better than us like [ __ ] wandering through the woods if your kids are going to get eaten by a [ __ ] wolf cuz some greeny [ __ ] decided to import them back into the wild. We need to rewild >> Wait, you don't like that wolves are back in the wild?

10:14 >> You know they just dropped them off in Aspen, these dumb [ __ ] >> like it? >> them off on a cattle ranch and all they're doing is eating cows. >> So now they have to have cowboys 24/7 riding horses because the governor's husband thought it would be a cute idea to drop off wolves in Colorado. And they reintroduced them to an area that has agriculture. They reintroduced them to ranching areas. >> Wow. You don't like >> Five [ __ ] wolves. They've killed who knows how many cows.

10:39 >> You don't like >> has to reimburse them every time a cow dies. They keep killing cows. They're not allowed to kill the wolves. The wolves are around them 24 hours a day just circling. >> [laughter] >> Well, that pack got fired. >> on horses all throughout the night. They've got fires. They have to keep people employed. >> But outside of the cattle poaching critters, are you for reintroducing and repopulating areas of >> First of all, wolves were making their way into Colorado naturally. They're already in the San Juan Mountains.

11:08 They're They're moving in from Wyoming where they live naturally. And when they reintroduced them into Montana, those have spread out all over the place. There's plenty of [ __ ] wolves, man. And there's a lot of wolves in Montana. >> too. You don't like wolves. >> I don't think you want wolves. I don't think you understand what you're saying. You You You're talking about a pack predator. It's very different than any other predator. They work together in coordination and they're smart. And if once they It's not like a mountain lion.

11:37 It's not like a thing that acts alone. Once they figure out that the cows are in these wooden pens and they could just hop the pen, kill a cow, and that's it, they're going to do it forever. >> Right. Forever. >> But but take out the poaching wolves. But the ones that are re-introduced and assimilate in raw nature. I think those are crucial and important to that ecosystem. >> It is crucial to have balance. >> Yeah.

12:00 >> And there's there's some aspects of having the wolves back in Montana that's actually better for the elk population. Because the elk population was very overpopulated at one point in time. They had um seasons where they were allowing people to shoot them in the snow um in the winter. So like there was so many of them. When they're in the snow, like deep snow, they can't run. So you basically >> No. >> The elk? >> Elk. Because before they re-introduced the wolves, they had so many elk.

12:27 >> Yeah. >> These elks were running out of resources. >> Yeah. >> And they they realized like they're so overpopulated, we're going to allow you to shoot them in ways that's not even remotely sporting. They're stuck in snow. >> It's called culling. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Just taking as many out of the population as you can. >> Yeah. >> And look, for the people that live there, it's amazing. You're eating elk 12 months out of the year. You got a freezer.

12:49 >> Yeah. >> delicious. How dare you? >> No, I mean if you eat it all the time. But don't forget the wolves also preserve the whole ecosystem because the overpopulation of elks were eating so much of the flora that the sides of riverbanks were eroding. >> you're you're quoting a a documentary called how wolves change rivers. >> Right. >> Yeah. Widely disputed. So a lot of the stuff they're saying is not accurate in that documentary. The What is accurate is that balance is important, but a lot of things are very overstated in that and it turned out to >> Not be true.

13:25 >> Not No, a lot of the claims are not true. >> But, do you ever live in a world where you go the wolves are part of the natural world the same way the bison were on the great plains before they eradicated them. >> have kids. >> No. Well, I have Billy. >> Imagine if you had kids and you were walking with your kids and you saw three wolves following you. >> Yeah. >> And you didn't have a gun. How would you feel about those wolves? When you thought, "Oh my god, we might get taken out by wolves and I just thought they were these cute fuzzy things that were a part of nature."

13:55 >> Oh, I don't think of them as that. I don't think of them as that. >> worked in nature. I've been around wolves. I know them. >> I am on team people. >> You are? >> 100% 100% team people. I love all animals. I love them all. But, I love people way more. If it was between a person that I [ __ ] hate, that I feels a real piece of [ __ ] and I knew that they're going to get taken out by a wolf, but I had a rifle, I'd kill the [ __ ] wolf 100% of the time cuz I'm on team people.

14:26 >> But, isn't the whole idea like >> "But, the animals are scared of us." Good. Be scared, [ __ ] >> Joe. >> It doesn't mean you should do anything bad to those animals, but good. Good. >> But, but Joe, isn't >> Don't try to eat my kids. >> Isn't it team people that's eradicating all the animals as we encroach deeper and deeper into the Amazon jungle, the African plains? We're losing Look at the American bison. There used to be millions of them herding across the prairies and now there's isolated pockets. Look at the elephant herds.

14:58 Look at Look at the silverback gorilla. Look at There's so many things that are losing to team people that we might not have Siberian tigers in 30 years. >> I'm not saying you should go and kill these endangered animals. >> say they do that by encroaching on them. >> we're not always That's not true. First of all, the bison thing was not because of encroaching. The bison thing was because of sport hunting where these people were like they were doing it not even sport hunting, market hunting. They were doing it for tongues.

15:29 >> Are you a fan of team human? If team human keeps pushing animals out of business, >> Where >> what point do we tip the scales? We're at what 7 billion now humans? >> it's more. >> So, at what point are you still a fan of team human when more and more of team animal is being eradicated? And I'm not trying to say we should hate humans. >> What animals are being eradicated right now? >> Well, I just explained how the the herds of elephants have shrunk down to this.

16:01 Tigers are down to a few thousand. >> And a lot of that >> Silverback gorillas are down to like a few hundred. Like >> A lot Okay, a lot of that is not encroaching. It's illegal poaching. That's what a lot of that >> but it's also encroaching. We're we're using up their land. >> Some of it, but also it's like what do you want those people to do? Like people in >> India like where they have elephants just invade their farms and eat all their food.

16:24 >> But that's what I'm saying. How long are you a proponent of team human >> People have been in those villages for hundreds and hundreds of years. >> But animals have been for millions. >> I'm on team people. If If it's your family that needs that farm to stay alive and all of a sudden a [ __ ] pack of elephants comes in and eats all the food that you've been working for a year to plant and grow. What do you think we should just feed the elephants and >> want to know where you stand. I'd rather see the animals succeed than us, if I'm being honest. I love people, but we're the ones >> That's a ridiculous thing to say. It doesn't mean we should just doesn't mean the animals are going to go extinct.

17:01 >> Don't you think we're a parasite on the back of Eden? Don't you think humans are a parasite on the back of this beautiful paradise? >> No. >> No animal dumps nuclear waste or chemicals into rivers. No animal tears down forests except for beavers. So what makes team human so great? >> Well, we definitely shouldn't do >> to change your attitude, Joe Rogan. >> do those things, but I am but I am a human and I like humans. I >> I love them.

17:30 I love you. >> And the only way that you're going to have humans is if you stay on team human and not say, "I'd rather have the animals here." They're just going to eat you. They're going to eat you and there'll be no more houses. >> But if you could press a button and get rid of humans with a press of a button and that everything else could just live here harmoniously, would you do it? >> What are you living in a [ __ ] Disney movie?

17:50 >> I'm just asking. >> No. No. No chance. >> in a simulation of a Disney movie. >> No, you live in some [ __ ] Canadian reality show. >> he's taking another drink of coffee. >> Son of a [ __ ] >> You south fly over this table with my rotten legs and >> [ __ ] team Canada. I know what you're doing. You're trying to ruin America by bringing in wolves. That's what you're doing. You're like a plant.