External & Internal Validation (Part 1)

0:02 welcome to Gammon going deeper a podcast series by the gaiman's Brotherhood where we talk about personal development mental health and sexuality we are your hosts we have Michael diorio is and he is a life and wellness coach specializing in sexuality relationships and self-confidence Reno Johnston who's a life coach business consultant and director of marketing for Body Electric and I'm Matt lancetal an intuitive life and spiritual coach and counselor specializing in healing and empowerment

0:32 so we have our own coaching practices but in this podcast we're sharing all of our best stuff and Reno welcome back hey welcome back we'll do a little intro after I just wanted I was excited so I wanted to say that um um okay so today is a is a two-parter so we're going to be doing external and internal validation so we got lots of good stuff for you this was a very big topic and we figured

1:01 you know what we need to do this in two parts because there's a lot to talk about so um so we're going to be talking about and exploring questions such as in what ways do you see over Reliance on external validation in the gay community and what ways do you seek external validation what do you find beneficial about external validation and then we're going to move into internal validation which is what gets in the way of you feeling internally

1:26 validated how do you practice internal validation and how have you learned to be more balanced when it comes to feeling valuable so some big Hefty questions there for us okay so we'll continue these discussions on the last Thursday of every month in the gay men's Brotherhood Zoom hangout where you'll have a chance to share your own experiences so come join us uh this podcast and YouTube channel are listener and viewer supported if you enjoy what we're creating you can

1:53 support us by making a donation to the show using the link in the show notes you can also subscribe to Early Access option on Apple and listen ad free and gain Early Access to episodes all your support helps us to continue making content for you and supporting our community and we do thank you in advance if you're looking to accelerate your personal development Journey check out our new coaching collection learn how to heal and Empower yourself at your own

2:18 pace by getting instant access to 45 premium personal development coaching videos created by us as well as our healing your shame and building better relationships courses so you can head over to gaymengoingdeeper.com for more information about that okay so internal and external validation so this topic is uh essentially like you know validation is this you know people validating us people telling us that we're okay we measure up

2:50 this is also can also be like categorized as approval so um there's two forms of this obviously we can do this from outside of ourselves or we can do this from inside of ourselves um they're both valid they're both important they're both part of us being social creatures um so we want to look at this because we have really seen a lot of in the gay community that there's a lot of more Reliance on external validation than

3:16 internal and this really internal really plays on self-worth right so we want to learn how to internally validate and improve of ourselves so we can feel worthy and be in our power and not constantly be giving our power away to other people to tell us that we're Worthy so if you look at like validation for what like what are we seeking validation for and I wrote down a couple things that came to mind so again one is

3:39 worthiness uh one could be feeling valuable um approval uh that we measure up that were liked that were attractive um so these are things that we can often easily Outsource to other people and learn and then we we learn to not do this for ourselves so the goal of this episode is to really teach people uh balance between these two you know in any in an Ideal World we want to you know have 50 50 because we're social

4:04 creatures we need um I I honestly think it is a need we need validation from other people because if you think about growing up um within our family systems and how we were like we would we would do something and we would look to our parents or our caregivers to see if it was right if we were doing a good job right and then when we got that validation we would continue to mimic what we were doing we

4:28 would continue to conform we would get more validation and this is how we'd really develop a sense of self right so if you think about this we actually cannot have a sense of self without the other right self and other go together we can't actually be a self when we don't have another to differentiate or individuate away from so this is really important to note because our sense of self is developed through interaction with others mostly at the very beginning

4:53 it's going to be our caregivers uh within our family system and then we learn how to do this with peers right um and this is what makes us social creatures so uh it's important to note that um we can enjoy external validation but we must not run away from our authentic path if it is not available to us and this means that we uh you know having having a stream of validation can feel really good but when we don't get it

5:21 um we it's important for us to honor us go inside search inside yourself and say okay what am I actually looking for here what do I need to move towards and I think I know a lot of us were on this journey right we're on this journey to discover this and to to get better at doing this and I speak for myself that this has been a huge struggle of mine in my life and um my ego needed validation in order to

5:43 feel worthy and I've done a lot of work to to deprogram this and I have a lot to share about this today so I'm excited about that um and then I just wrote here over Reliance on external validation can lead to a fragile sense of self where we Outsource our Authority and our power to others right if that's our only source if we're 95 motivated by external we're going to have a fragile sense of self because everyone else tells us who we

6:06 are that we're worthy that way it's okay to be in our power it's okay to make this decision and we lose our our connection to our authentic self so that's really important to note and then the other thing is if we're if we're giving our way our power and our authority to other people we're going there's a potential that we're going to be really hypersensitive to criticism right because we don't have that I am enough I am worthy internally we have to

6:32 seek it from outside of ourselves so if the people that are giving us validation suddenly turn on us and start giving us criticism what does that say right we're going to be very hypersensitive to that and it's probably going to completely derail us right so this is the this is the whole purpose of today's episode and I'm I'm really excited to share um and I know you guys are too I know you guys have have made it quite you

6:55 know far on your journey to developing a stronger sense of you and I'm excited to hear what you guys have to share on that um so yeah before we go into the questions I just want to welcome you back Reno I think um it's been I don't I didn't even actually look but it's been about a year maybe even a year and a half and yeah we you know we both we connected um what was it about a month ago a month

7:20 and a half ago and it was just really nice to plug back in and just you know use the mirror of you um to see my own growth and just to see your growth over the last year and a half it's like been tremendous so I know yeah it's really really great to have you back I want to give you an opportunity just to share with the audience like what's been going on in your world over the last year and a half

7:39 before we hop in yeah sure thank you well um in in in line with the topic I just wanted to take a moment to to celebrate the amazing things that you're all up to in this community I feel like it's grown so much and um when you were sharing all of the different things that the community had access to I I had to hold back I wanted to interject and say you all are doing big things so congratulations and

8:11 Michael I see you all over Instagram all the time and that is so exciting and there's a there's a confidence and an unabashedness and and the shamelessness that I really really celebrate um it's it's beautiful to like to see you Blossom um and to watch you Blossom so yeah I'm I'm excited to be here and uh I guess on my end um gosh the last so probably like two

8:43 years three months ago I moved to the West Coast and that was a really sort of intuitive and inspired decision I had no idea what was waiting for me there and I just kind of followed this um deeper feeling which I tend to follow through life and I have some pretty interesting stories about where that's led me and um this was no exception so you know I connected with my biological father I

9:13 met aunts and siblings and cousins and people that I didn't know were there um I discovered that I have history tied to that place that I didn't know I had um I I mean yeah so many things I moved into a house with you know five other people and uh it's this beautiful communal space and I've really enjoyed that and I've seen my business do all sorts of interesting things and then I kind of step back from that and found

9:44 myself in this position as the director of marketing for this erotic school and it's just like and again that was another one of those situations where I just I I felt this like nudge in a particular direction had no clue where it was going to take me and just kind of showed up and said yes to it and then before I knew it here I am so my life seems to be a series of like those kinds

10:10 of events and me listening to and following that intuitive nudge and um and then all this synchronicity which I think in a way kind of brought me here like it's so it's so interesting to be back here and just the way the way that things kind of unfolded the grace with which they unfolded um it's like it's not really surprising and yet it's still just really exciting to see that playing out in my life in our lives you know so

10:41 yeah that's that's where I'm at right now and and loving life on the west coast it's it's been really delicious and also like really challenging in moments too like really challenging moments but I found a place that my body feels really at home in and um and the last thing I'll say is I'm I'm back in my hometown visiting and I'm on this podcast

11:12 this like wild sort of full circle thing because yeah it's it's just really interesting how things work a whole little sort of walk down memory lane so yeah that's where I'm at super happy to be here happy to be connecting with you guys in the community and yeah it's good to be back yeah it's nice to have you back a lot of people still talk about you right now we've had I don't know exactly how many

11:37 episodes we've had since was your last episode but we still have people commenting on you know episodes from way back in 2020 um so I'm very certain that they're going there's going to be a lot of people who are very happy to see you yeah thank you yeah that makes me happy I'm receiving that external validation yes exactly yeah yeah and you bring back the water Vibes because we um Michael and I are air Colin was there so you're bringing in

12:06 some good Scorpio energy okay I love that I love that yeah thank you uh okay so let's uh let's move into this so we'll start with Michael so in what ways do you see over Reliance on external validation in the gay community lots of ways um so I I really highlighted the word for me here is over reliance on external validation right because like you had said it in your opener we need validation externally we need people to

12:37 kind of tell us that hey we're on the right track and we're not I think we'll get into that question later but um what what got me thinking is like how do you know when you're just regular relying versus over relying and so that's where I kind of wanted to start today and I asked myself that question because I have been in this and I'd say I do tend to like go towards that and then kind of bring myself back uh

12:58 towards that more Middle Ground 50 50 but here's how I know and it's when I the more I get the external validation the more I crave it the more I need it so it's like oh this feels so good give me more give me more give me more give me more and it's almost as a desperate like yeah yeah yeah like like uh like I become a validation junkie just wanting the next hit of it right so that's one

13:18 way that I know that I'm getting into the like okay it's over Alliance um and then the other ways like you had said Matt when I become extra sensitive maybe I'll say I'll use the word fragile to criticism or to what I perceive as invalidation uh so it could be like the slightest Rejection it could be someone making it like one little comment about something or I like a light teasing and I'll like hit it'll hit me really hard

13:41 and so like that reaction Within Me is disproportionate to like to say the situation so those are the two ways that I want to kind of highlight the the over-reliance piece there's there's really nothing wrong with with wanting and liking external validation okay now to answer the question uh okay so in the gay community I mean I think the most obvious one that I see um on Instagram and probably all over is body we talked about this in our last uh I

14:11 think was March our March episodes about body um you know we as a community am generalizing here but use that body and I and I'm speaking I have done this many times I still do to some degree to get that validation like the you know and I'm not talking about just the body Journal talking about like the body like the the kind of body that like you know gay men think that they have to that we've decided is sexy you know the young

14:37 one the one with the ABS and the muscles and the small waist and the bubble butt that kind of body um so that is one way I think you know we we as a community again journalizing can over rely on that as a way to get our sense of hey look I'm attractive hey look I'm worthy hey look I'm worthy of your attention Your Love whatever it is that is in a similar vein slightly tied to that is sexual prowess

15:02 so sex for sport um you know collecting all these sexual encounters that validates us as being worthy of first of all validates this is being attractive like oh look I'm attractive look how many people I um sexy you know worthy of others attention again speaking for myself here because this was very much my story for probably a good decade of My Life um and that's kind of how I was telling myself I'm part of this community oh

15:26 look I'm I'm part of the community too like I can I can have the fun I can do the hookups I can do the thing um so those were two that are really personal to me one that isn't so personal to me but I see a lot is like overalliance in like the material things like the the appearance of having it all right like oh my brand name things and look at this you know all the I don't

15:47 know brand names I'm not a fashionista at all yeah like I shop Adventure Shores and Kensington Market but you know that kind of thing like the Gucci's and all these things and and being part of that Elite Circle that also value those same things and they kind of just have this like validational circle jerk where all they're all just turking each other off which by the way is totally arbitrary the fact that these people consider themselves the elite I cannot stand that

16:12 it's like one of my pet views when they when people say oh the elite gay is unlike this is not an elite this is not for real this is an arbitrary thing that they have made up and you're buying into let's not do that um and when I'm in these circles so when I'm in like let's say a party or um uh we have a an event here I don't want to say the name of it but there's an

16:31 event here that happens once a year that is very much of the elite gaze um and it's really kind of funny to me because these people don't even like each other most of the time and it's like you're trying to win each other's approval for people you don't even like and in fact as soon as they turn around you like talk them so I find it quite funny but I think I'll leave my answer there those are I think the ways

16:53 that I see specifically with the gays that we we can over rely on the external validation maybe they don't even like themselves either care totally very true the mean gaze it's usually a sign that they don't like themselves either that's why they're exactly yeah what about you Reno where are you yeah I mean there's so much that you said Michael that I observe um certainly the

17:25 I think the body image is a big one and let me just kind of speak to I think what I want to speak to is is is like my own my own experience because what I found what I found within the community was that um well first it was it was my body you know that was a big one um and my yeah my physical appearance you know

17:57 um and and this kind of goes without saying but I feel like one of the things that I I struggled with as well was um you know being a person of color and and really feeling like somehow my value was diminished as a result of that where I was seen as less valuable

18:29 as a result of that and I found myself really like really striving to create an image that um inspired more like increased external validation and sort of upped my value and that sometimes looked like you know wanting lighter like a lighter skin tone or a lighter eye color or straighter hair or you know a different sort of physical appearance like a sort of more

18:59 muscular physique for example and as you mentioned earlier like the sort of designer threads and things like that um and and my sense is that like I didn't come in caring about that stuff you know it was like me in my glory I'm like give me you know a cute vest that's thrifted or like a tank top and like shorts that I can maybe swim in and move comfortably in and like I'm good that's

19:29 like I'm the most comfortable in that kind of attire and then every once in a while I was sort of like you know played up I I like luxury too but I don't rely on it I don't depend on it it doesn't it doesn't sort of Define my my value um but I certainly see a lot of that within within the gay community and then I think too it seems quite prevalent on some of these like these apps you know like um

19:58 I'm thinking about like grinder for example um blessed it's a tool and it serves a purpose and you know depending on how we use it we have a certain experience but I would say within a space like that there's just so much of this sort of like um you know you look at a picture and then within that you know 10 seconds you kind of decide like who this person is and whether they're worth your time and

20:28 whatnot and um yeah that it's unfortunate in a way but it's also part of the journey and the process and and and and and ideally we sort of come around and and realize some of the things that we've shared here and we'll probably dive into throughout the conversation yeah yeah and and what about you Matt did you did you share already well no I want to I want to paint a bit of a

20:58 picture because I think you know this is what I'm good at I'm good at kind of like looking for roots and like where is this stuff coming from you know what I mean yeah kind of a psychology behind it um and I want to share that because you guys really covered everything that I have but there was there's one thing like the topic of the month um in the gay men's Brotherhood and where these two ideas came from is about

21:17 shame and most people you might not realize like the Topic's called healing shame so you might not realize that um Reliance on external validation the root is usually shame or inadequacy like I'm not good enough or something is wrong with me um and then what we do is we start to seek outside of ourselves for I'm not wrong I'm worthy and that's where this comes from kashim it makes it when we're when we're in toxic shame it makes us

21:43 really hard for us to develop a strong sense of I am worthy because we don't feel it we feel defective broken um that there's something about us that needs to be fixed whatever it might be um so I wanted to point that out from the top um and I I personally believe this is my personal belief that um finding balance between external and internal validation or and or correcting the heavy Reliance on external validation it requires a process of

22:11 healing shame so the healing shame course that we have is really that's one of the the main pieces of it is looking at the ways in which you're seeking validation outside yourself because you gotta stop the bleeding if you want to therefore then keep your power right leaking power out it one of the ways that we do that is over Reliance on external validation so um I want people just to think today over the course of these two episodes is

22:36 like thinking about the ways in which you're doing this and the intention behind it and oftentimes it's going to be hard for us to make a connection between the unhealthy ways we're doing it and and that because our ego is so defensive against looking at any dysfunction that we have in our life so it's like it will take probably a lot of radical honesty um so for example like people that are posting thirst traps um and their main intention is to get

23:01 you know validation from people because they don't feel good within themselves get really honest about that don't shame yourself for doing it just get really honest about like why am I doing this why am I posting this what's the intention behind it that will lead you to the solution that you need in order to kind of heal this part of you that's seeking the external validation so I wanted to can I say something yeah please please yeah yeah so it like and

23:25 like I love a good thirst trap um I love posting them yeah I'm aware like you said I exactly yeah yeah um I love a good thirst trap I love seeing them I love sharing them um you know I love validating people who posted them I love receiving the validation but like you said there's there's an awareness and there's myself like I'm putting this out there for that reason I'm aware of it you know I'm it's

23:54 in Boston it's embodied I think that's the difference it's an embodied action um whereas I think previously that stuff it Not only was it not embodied but it was sort of filling like you know if you were to imagine sort of uh like a paper cup with a hole in the bottom it was kind of filling this like exactly like paper cup you know now um not so much right so yeah I love what you said about being honest with

24:23 yourself like yeah this is this is what this is about and I'm gonna own it yeah yeah exactly and like like everything there's a shadow side to this stuff there's a shadow side to the thirst traps and I think that's maybe what I want to highlight today because I'm just like you guys and I I like to post one once in a while too um usually a butt photo in nature once again that's my that's my thing I was

24:45 just gonna mention that one yeah I saw that look that's what we all did it I get it and I think it's beautiful and I think it's it's important for us to share the body but with the shadow side to it is the perfectionism side and what people don't see and this is the harmful side of of things like Instagram and Facebook and social media in general is that how many times did you have to take that photo for it to look perfect

25:09 and for it to look the way that right and then what happens is you have other guys that are comparing themselves to this and how many filters did you use right so there's the the perfectionism is a big part of this because when we're seeking external validation from the shadow side we're doing it from a very perfectionistic uh place right so I also love um thirst traps of that are just very natural and organic and people just

25:33 sharing their unfiltered self because I think that's that's beautiful and I think as as gay men we need to see more of that like none of this like refined um you know perfectionistic stuff so that's really really important so perfectionism would be like appearing to be something that you aren't and trying to Manicure your image in a way that it makes you get validation from people but it's not really authentically you right on who you are

26:01 um that would be the shadow side to it but just like technical things like I wrote down so I think I put it into like three categories so body validation um which is thirst trap sex attractiveness this these this this kind of hold category um material validation which is would be like money status and Power and then emotional validation um so you know tell me uh that who I am or and and how I feel is enough so

26:28 emotional validation is actually something that we all need it's very important um but it's part part of again this there's a shadow side to it as well if we're constantly Outsourcing people to tell us that it's okay how we're feeling it's going to lead to problematic um behavior and and psychology so um yeah I feel like that's probably you know I Feel Complete on that topic I love that you broke it down into categories too like that's so cool I

26:54 never thought of it that way and I'm thinking of like other categories that you could maybe you know the other categories that this could apply to as well that's really cool I never thought of it or reviewed it that that frame so thank you for that that's really cool yeah I'm glad it landed all right let's go uh into the second question so in what ways do you seek external violation so let's expose ourselves a bit here

27:25 uh all the ways what do you want to give me I'll take it yeah I'll take it I'll take all the validation you want to throw at me of course yeah right who doesn't want to be validated so um yeah I really like you know I'm joking but it's true um I think what I've relied on for me is what I spoke about earlier is sex and body um you know in in the gay sense I think

27:49 if I go beyond that like before that I've always been um I've always wanted to be validated from like authority figures like parents and teachers I was a good boy um I wouldn't be the good son I want to be the good student like about Straight A's so that kind of goes back to it but that kind of feeds into my Perfections and I'm really happy you mentioned that man because I was thinking that for me

28:11 they're very much tied in together so the example I want to use is during covid um you know everything was locked down here in here in Ontario so um I wasn't able to go to the gym and I gained about 15 pounds because I was at home eating takeout uh you know working 20 hours a day not doing anything um so yeah I get into about 50 pounds uh typically you know I love showing body on on Instagram and all the things and I

28:38 had it was fine I enjoyed it once in a while but then I remember the being at the beach with my friends I think it was the summer of 2020 just you know uh during covet and stuff and I saw the picture that my friend was gonna post and I had this dread and I was like oh no no no no no no like you can't you can't post that but I was watching and my brain what was

29:00 happening like oh my gosh Michael like this is you're not as you still got some work to do here my friend because it was fine when I had the the body that I wanted to show you know that Perfections like okay this is acceptable for me to post or for people to see but seeing that other version of me that I didn't like so much was really hard and so that was really challenging for me ultimately

29:20 of course I I let him do it but I had to do the work like I know that like it's not it's not a him problem this is a me problem like why do I not want this right especially because we're as a group of it was a group of us and there's a whole bunch of us so like that just made it worse the comparing Factor so I think that kind of um reminded me that okay this is still

29:40 something that I need to kind of bring myself back to um also I would say these days it's it's more about like I really like being validated with respect to my business ventures because it's kind of new for me and um you know I I love when people give me the the accolades or the validation of you know something that I posted like that's not necessarily about my looks but more so about the content and I will

30:07 say this on Instagram I could post a picture of myself like not saying anything intelligent or inspirational it'll get like 10 times more likes than something I put a lot of thought into and a lot of there's like words and text people like what words and text no no next I know right but I do really actually appreciate the valuation that comes with the words and text these days more than I did more than I do the the

30:27 body stuff um yeah so I think I think that answers the question for me um I will say as well these days what makes it different in how I know that I'm not too far into the overall Reliance is that if I post that picture let's say at the beach where I didn't I have the 15 extra pounds on my belly and all these things I can come back to myself and have like a soft landing on the inside yeah like

30:54 this really sucks but like I'm not going to use it to beat the out of myself I'm going to use this as a way to like find that self-compassion um remembering that validation from external like Ebbs and flows they are at the whim of other people's opinions which you know change at a dime so it doesn't need to be a constant flow I kind of have to like learn sometimes I'm going to get the validation sometimes

31:19 I'm going to put like lots of work into something and it's going to be dead error and that's okay so I don't know if I answer the question but I kind of copped out with everything but that's my answer how about you Reno yeah no I totally relate to that it's it's all the ways um you know tell me I'm cute tell me I'm sexy tell me my body is great tell me you love my chest hair and my beard tell

31:47 me my outfit looks cute tell me how smart I am or how genuine I am or what a good person I am sometimes tell me what a I am like that sometimes feels good too you know I'm like oh okay so you know like there's something working there um yeah I think those are some of the ways and then um on occasion I'll you know maybe hop on social media and share something that I think is profound or or it'll be me like

32:18 on the poll we just installed a poll in the living room and I'm you know hanging from that thing and it's so much fun and I feel really sexy and I love when people send those little hearts or fire emojis and stuff like that um so it's great and I know when I'm doing it um and and and I I don't really have any any Shame about doing it at this point but um yeah I think there's I want to kind of

32:49 slow down here and check in like what are what are some of the other ways I see um I really like to look good in a photo um you know get me from the right angle and and uh and also I would say that um a strong archetype or a strong

33:22 archetypal presence in me is the performer you know like I I certainly love to perform and I love to perform because I enjoy being extremely validated and I also love to perform because of how it inspires and activates and galvanizes other people how it moves people to feel I mean he's sort of turned on and to come alive so that's that's really exciting to me and I also think external validation informs

33:55 um my my ideas about my identity and and in some ways I can find that helpful like understanding how a person experiences me um communicates to me like maybe um the the sort of content of that relationship and and allows me to decide and choose how whether I want to continue orienting myself um in that way with that person or to

34:26 kind of like switch it up so they're valuable aspects to it for sure and I think um I think I would say that's that's generally it and something I'm noticing more and more as time goes on is I actually really value being perceived as invalidated for my wisdom and intellect and and so that's been interesting like playing with that kind of welcoming it and Desiring it but also like maybe letting some of it Go and being okay

34:57 with not being perceived that way and just you know recognizing that there is intelligence here there is intellect here and yeah so I think those are those are some of the ways can I validate you right now right now oh please uh your moves you said all these great things but like the way you dance and the way you shake them oh how can I forget that yeah I really appreciate and um wait I want to validate both of

35:26 you you look really good in this Navy is it this blue color thank you yeah yeah and Matt something I don't think I've ever maybe I've told you this explicitly I'm not sure but like I love how you smell thank you yeah I love the way I mean I could say a whole bunch of other things but it just came to me when I was sitting here I was like oh yeah I remember really liking how Matt smells

35:51 yeah I'll take it I stimulate your olfactory senses there we go yeah oh that's great you know I want to I want to point out I said off the top that we're air your water a perfect example is let me just slow down and tune in it's like it's so nice and it's so good for me like I need to slow down like I'm a I'm a going a mile a minute and so just the I'm so glad to have your presence

36:16 back here because it's very it Roots me back down into my body so thank you for that that was really beautiful because when you did that I was like oh yeah okay like I can breathe you know um so that's beautiful I want to come back I want to Circle back to you guys and I want to ask you what's the ultimate compliment that um somebody could give you but I'll do my Spiel and then we'll come back so you guys can

36:40 have a moment to think about it I love that um okay so why in what ways do I seek external validation so my content uh my wisdom I feel like that's in definitely in that same Arena like I part of my Dharma and my life path is to to create and to inspire and so when people say to me you know your work has really helped me transform my life or it's inspired me to be more authentic or whatever that is

37:04 really really it feels really good to me and that is one of the main motivators of why I do what I do um so I love that uh my appearance um definitely but I toned this one down and I my this this topic of external validation is so close it hits so close to home for me because I realized about four years ago that I was about 95 5 ratio leaning towards external and it was all about my body my appearance how

37:32 fit I looked and I realized that I was giving away all of my power to the external world to tell me how I could feel about myself and I had an epiphany uh when I was on stage for my fitness competition and it was like something clicked and it was like what am I doing I'm literally posing and flexing my muscles on a stage so people can rape me and tell me how worthy I am and I was like boom from there from that

37:58 point forward I stopped working out I went internal moved to Asia did all this deep inner work on letting go of my attachment to my appearance and um and I I really did I fully but I swung the other way I got angry when people told me I was attractive I uh I shut off my sexuality basically because I didn't want to be sexualized and I had to go through this period of really shutting myself down and now my process

38:24 is I'm opening myself back up I'm opening my heart back up I'm opening up all my sexual centers because I feel like it's now I've restored balance in myself so it's like you know part of me consciously posting those butt photos in nature is that it's like I'm gonna see and I'm testing myself to see am I gonna go back to my phone and keep checking and you know seeing how many likes I'm getting and is this gonna mean something about

38:50 me and it didn't right so I'm I'm constantly doing things to test myself to see where I'm at in my process and so my appearance and my relationship to my appearance has really dramatically changed because I I went through a period in Asia where I call it a turning off the Taps of external validation I literally went to nothing I stopped seeking validation I stopped looking at seeing how people would react to me um all of these sorts of things and I

39:15 did that for about a year year and a half and it was one of the darkest periods of my life because I had to go through this real yucky period of not getting validation at all because I didn't know how to do it internally and I wasn't receiving it anymore from the external world and I felt worthless that's what I had to meet I felt my I felt my lack of worth and it was really painful but then I had to do

39:41 the work to kind of accumulate more connection to myself and that all happened through my body believe it or not connecting back into the truth of who I was led me to um learning how to internally validate which we'll talk about more um after but um and clients right like I do I do coaching and counseling work so when I see my clients making progress or they tell me that I'm you know good at what I

40:03 do like that really it's it feels really good and um I love that uh romantic uh relationships I think is an area and this is this is one that I'm I feel like I maybe give away too much Authority uh when it comes to sex and relationships I'm still learning how to navigate this because when I get into a relationship with somebody and I really respect them like you know I find sometimes I can Outsource my Authority

40:27 or like if I'm having a bad day it's like I want them to tell me I'm I'm attractive or these sorts of things so I'm trying I think I'm still learning in this in this area but um and then the last one I have here is singing so um I'm on this journey of like of uh singing and becoming more performer energy I think this has always been a part of me when I was a kid I was you

40:48 know I see home videos of myself and I was like running around performing making everybody laugh and and then somewhere along the way that part of me was like severed or something I don't know it's really weird so I'm like reconnecting back into this part of me and I'm having a lot of imposter syndrome around singing and Performing and I feel like who am I to be doing this this is this isn't me and my self-concepts being

41:11 really challenged right now so when my coach or after my first performance the the guy that hosts the open mic he was like wow you're really good and um you know he invited me to come to this other this other open mic and uh I got this feeling like you belong here and it was just a little tiny hair of a feeling but it was like it it made me feel like yes you know what I mean like it's the

41:37 little um minuscule thing that I needed in order for me to move towards um doing what I'm doing so okay so I I want to say that when you were sharing that you were playing in this like performative space and using your voice and singing like I I felt a a very strong resonance like I felt myself light up from the inside out I think part of it is like the performer in me loves like like seeing other people

42:08 shine and and people play in that performative space and I also think like I I love seeing you have fun you know it's cool yeah so like yes that's really exciting yeah yeah yeah you're one of the people that I've because we we used to hang out in in uh in Calgary and uh Vancouver and you're like a person that I feel safe with to like be kind of more silly and goofy not people not many people get to see that

42:36 side of of me and I'm learning how to bring him out more and more but it's like a safety thing for me like I don't feel safe being that in that energy with with a lot of people so I'm like learning how to do that um with strangers right now like getting up and Performing and letting go fully letting go it's like it's a lot so to get that validation that like you know that that I belong there and it's okay

42:57 to get that like it does help me settle into like okay I can do this you know so I'm really learning that valid external validation is is so important in the process of like you know well even just overcoming imposter syndrome or trying new things like we need other people to take our hand and say it's okay come with me I'll show you what I know right that that is and that takes a lot of humility right

43:19 um to in order to surrender to that too so thank you for that that Reno I appreciate that yeah you're welcome and you're making me think of something I just had this sort of visual in my mind I was thinking about a plan you know I was thinking about a seed in the soil uh yeah also you could think of like a a you know a fetus and a sort of Offspring like in the womb and how there's a

43:44 period of time when when it's in the womb or the seed is in the soil where it's like it's um it's drawing energy it's drawing from its surroundings to to to grow itself you know and and like moms will sometimes say like you know that like I love this thing inside of me and also it's like trying to kill me jokingly but it's like you know their their hair changes their changes their energy shifts and there's a lot

44:15 happening you know because the seeds a lot of energy but at some point as it starts to grow and Blossom it develops um let's say new capacities and it it sort of sources in a in a different way now you know I think in nature and then life will sort of see and I I think we call this I think we call this cancer in a way but we'll we'll sort of see sometimes that something will become

44:46 so radically out it it starts to kind of like take in excess to the point where it's like you know sort of de-energizing whatever's around it right and sort of totally sucking the life out of whatever's around it and it becomes detrimental to to that that that that um being right and so thinking about that as you were speaking you know there's sort of this dance where at some

45:18 point you kind of got to pull back and like get off the heat so to speak um and and and start finding other ways um both internally and externally to to meet those needs you know and it can't just be from one place and and just in in excess you know yeah get a bottom on your cup and metaphors and analogies here but I love it yeah I'm on your cup you know find that bottom get it there

45:45 you know and then start finding different ways to fill it right yeah yeah amen yeah amen so did you guys have a chance to think about your ultimate compliment yeah um okay I can start I have like I think two can I say two sure yes okay one that I love um is when someone says something like you you just seem so you like it's just so nice to see someone be so themselves like I guess it's genuine like you're so

46:14 you seem so genuine uh that I love and another one would be um it feels so easy talking to you like that just warms my heart and I love I love hearing that [Music] um which in my profession is a good one because that's exactly what I want to be good at yeah um how about you Reno yeah yeah I mean as you were sharing it kind of like I found my answer evolving in a way but

46:47 um what came through first was you're beautiful um yeah and I think a second one might be something like you you're brilliant hmm but when when you were sharing Michael I think something that I really love to hear probably even more than those two things is I feel like I can be myself around you

47:19 yeah iteration of that like that feels really good I mean really good yeah yeah I like that we're also similar yeah what about you man um I would say probably something to do with my energy because I I do a lot of work on like cultivating vibration and like you know like clearing out you know hate and fear and these things that really inundate The Human Experience that are natural and normal but I do a lot of work on these things to try and

47:48 you know emanate more love and compassion and you know so if somebody's like yeah I just love being around you it feels good to be around you you have a loving a loving energy your your presence that sort of thing uh would be probably really important to me yeah yeah and my ideas my ideas I like when you know like thinking about sitting down with somebody and sharing ideas and talking with them and they're like man

48:12 you bring such great ideas to the table like that would feel good for me too yeah that's one of my favorite ways to spend time with you I feel like yeah me too um like sitting in the car like yeah that's one it was like you know ideally over some plate of like barbecued ribs or something like that or steak that's great um but three is just like hanging out and like having these deep philosophical conversations for hours oh I love it so

48:43 yeah me too and we both love hip-hop music and yeah jamming out to hip-hop so cruising around Vancouver with my sunroofing and just jamming yes oh I missed it at times I'm back soon yeah um okay so last question here um what do you find beneficial about external validation we've kind of talked a bit about this but let's go right to the heart of it um what's the juiciness and yumminess of external validation I think it's stimulating I get I get a

49:14 rush out of it when it happens right it could be fun um you know if you get good at it if you get good at finding it in one particular way like I said at the beginning you kind of become a bit of a validation adrenaline in that a little bit not to say it's good for you necessarily but there's the dopamine that dopamine it feels good it doesn't last um so besides it feeling good obviously

49:37 like you had talked about in the beginning it is validation is good for us legit psychologically um you know we feel accepted by the tribe you feel like okay cool I belong here like okay they accept me this is my space I can be safe here um and there's there's a lot of safety in that and think of it the opposite of of like the you know getting invalidated or getting rejected or whatever that might be creates isolation social

50:01 isolation and that's terrifying we don't want to be we don't want to be away from the tribe that's like our primitive brains like death there's the safety of the tribe and here I am over here in The Jungle by myself about to get eaten by a lion that's kind of like what's going on there right so I think that it is very good for us in that way uh when we can balance it with the internal which we

50:20 can get into more in the next episode yeah yeah I love that yeah I I think like one of the benefits and again I want to use the analogy of a Seedling and and a plant growing is like external validation like it can be really nourishing you know I think about the way the sun and the brain and the elements you know and the and the like the nutrients within soil nourish a plan

50:52 right and and have it grow and sustain and it's like external validation can be in be akin to that in a lot of ways yeah and I think that um what is also important is to recognize like our relationship to external validation and like like how we're receiving it and also how it's being how it's being given um there's there's something there about sort of the where it's coming from and

51:23 the person it's coming from that sort of in between process that the sort of synthesization of it and then like how it's landing and how we're holding it and integrating it there's like a whole sort of process there that I think is important in in like external validation being beneficial you know and um yeah I I think it can be really nourishing really fulfilling really uplifting and also informative um it helps me to maybe understand what

51:56 some of the the qualities and the characteristics of my being and my expression you know my my presence here it's like oh okay you called me brilliant I never thought of that okay so there's Brilliance here you called me beautiful okay interesting so someone sees Beauty here let me digest that let me okay um so it becomes information as well and then I think maybe the one of the last things I would say is it's um it's

52:28 connective as well you know it's connective as well and I think that can be really beautiful like I I have some relationships and I think like that's really present here among you know the the of us is like there I have relationships sometimes where like we're really good at gassing each other up and I and I love that sometimes you know ah fill me up and like you know I'm gassing them up I'm like yeah you're the

52:53 like you're beautiful you're so smart that was amazing you know you're so sexy it's like I love that that feels good to be in those kinds of relationships right yeah yeah that was so well said thank you yeah really that was that was great what you just shared uh it hit home for me um yeah I think again like I'll look at it through the lens of like shame like what does shame do like well brene Brown

53:21 describes shame as like an intensely or an intenseful an intense painful feeling that it essentially impairs our ability to feel worthy of love and belonging okay so if you look if you look at what uh external validation does is it really um like when we're in shame and we're seeking it from that shadow side is it's we're giving away our Authority but on the positive side to that it can really be that sense of belonging it can it can

53:53 it can be you know someone says something nice I can feel like wow like I do feel like I belong and that sense of belonging is what heals shame right so again if you look at it it's like the same action of seeking external validation with the intention being openness and not you know desperation and looking to get your worthiness you know bucket filled it can be very healing and very therapeutic right so again the intention behind why

54:18 we're seeking this is so critical right and if we want to learn how to internally validate we all we have to have balance okay so that's really key um but yes it feels good it makes me more feel more competent it makes me feel special I love that feeling of feeling special you know what I mean like it's just such a good feeling and that's the feeling that I think I get in Intimate Relationships like with a

54:42 romantic partner and it's monogamous it's like this person is my special person you know what I mean like they they they make me feel special they make me feel Chosen and that is very much external it's an external form of validation um and then what you what you said um I almost just called you Callan that's funny it's so habitual right you know is that it allows us to see what we don't see in ourselves what you said made me made me think that

55:09 because it's like you know when we're for example like in my singing like I'm my my coach is like this sounds really good like this part of your voice let's focus more on this I'm like I didn't see that so her validation allowed me to see something that I don't see in myself that I can therefore then grow and develop and if you think of like the coaching or the counseling or the therapeutic process that's what we're

55:30 offering to people is it's like let me hold the mirror up to you so you can see yourself in all your parts right The Good the Bad the Ugly the Beautiful the sacred the Divine like I'm gonna hold this mirror up for you that is external validation right it's so beautiful um so yeah can I say one more thing because you're speaking um I I remember I don't know where this came from but it was like I got this

55:58 download and I'm gonna get woo-woo here for a moment and then download the download was you are God experiencing itself you are God existing and experience that's experiencing itself and they know that that word or that languaging maybe like brings some stuff up for people I'm also wearing a cross but I'm not really just I just um you know I'm I'm sort of uh uh I'm just like open I welcome wisdom and Brilliance from all places and always

56:29 um and so I remember when I received this yeah this download it was we are we are God or we are life expressing and experiencing itself and so I think in these moments that we're describing a sort of external validation it's like that process is happening you know it's like life is like realizing recognizing um remembering um um experiencing itself and that's like a really beautiful thing you know it's it's a it's it's information it's a

57:02 relationship it's a dialogue um it's a it's a love making as well you know so I think that um that like you know like we're pointing to here there's there's value there there's value and how can how can it all know itself if it's not reflecting itself back to it so you know yeah yeah yeah exactly that's the point I made off the top about self and other we can't have one without the other right they go together yeah so

57:31 absolutely yeah yeah I feel great full circle I like that that was Full Circle yeah yeah yeah yeah the harmony feels good today I feel good about this yeah so yeah yeah do you guys feel complete or do you want to share anything else before we wrap up I Feel Complete wonderful well we're not complete we're gonna see you next week for part two of this we're gonna dive into the internal

58:03 validation aspect of things and how to start cultivating that and restoring balance if this if you do see yourself as having more over Reliance on the external how can we start to heal this part of ourselves so we can come back into wholeness and more worthiness uh intrinsically so thank you to my co-host today for sharing your lovely thoughts and feelings and wisdom and we'll see you next week for part two of this episode ciao for now