KPMG Interview Questions | Management Consultant Interview | KPMG India Interview Process

0:01 Hello. So today we have HB CA HB Singh Oberoy with us who is manage management consultancy expert. He's currently placed at KPMG in the same management consultancy department itself. Uh hi hi hashir it's wonderful to have you. Hi hiushka. Hi thank you. Thank you so much for having me over. Thank you so much for the introduction as well and really looking forward for the session. Definitely I think a lot of students are going to definitely benefit a lot out of this video and all your insights on this whole domain that is one of the most uh looked forward towards or like most of the students want to get into it but just don't know what is the right blend or what is the right ingredients or what is the right thing that they need to do to get into this profile. I'm sure that uh your insights are going to help them a lot.

0:54 Oh yes yes yes. We'll we'll definitely look forward to having the session as useful as crisp as brief as possible so that they have the most of it to make. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Uh so let's get started with the questions as we ready to go. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh so let's start off with uh you sharing some insights on what management consultancy as a domain is. Can you tell us what? Yeah. So as a domain as a field normally it's very known that okay it's a very niche field but why is it a niche field?

1:28 It's a niche field because you are talking to the sea of the management of the company. So you're talking to the senior most people, you're talking to the CFOs, to the CEOs, discussing what the problems are, what what the industry functions like, where they stand in the industry, how their market share is. So you're talking to them one-on-one to understand their business, to understand the industry. In this particular profile, you not only just get to know about their business, you get to know about the industry, about their functions, how they operate, how they are managing at the moment, and how they are managing their finances. So you get a very holistic view of the whole business as as like as a whole. So you just get the integrated whole. You don't just get a gist, you get into the business, understand how this how it actually functions. So this is a profile that helps you get that solutioning mindset, understanding the business, getting to know about everything from an industry perspective, from a company's perspective, from a profit-making perspective. So all of that is what this profile is all about. So it it does not restrict you to one particular domain like finance. You're not just talking about finance. You're not just talking about costing. You're not just talking about profits. You're talking about management over here. You're talking about organizational structure over here. So it's like a 100% that you get and not just like a five or 10% like normally what the uh CAS are supposed to do like just audit just tax. It's not that it's like whole into the business.

2:58 So you are 100% in. So that's what this profile is all about. You're a solution provider as a consultant. Okay. So uh to brief it, I think we can say that a management consultant is basically a person who sitting like maybe who's taking a bird's eye view on the whole business and taking a 360deree view and then providing solutions. So it is a very wholesome profile. we could tell that uh that's why it is a niche profile because to have that kind of a vision or the foresight is what one requires to get into it. So I think that's what makes it a very special profile to get in.

3:37 So if we talk about the profile and what it basically looks like uh it would be basically uh the client comes to you with a solution since you're a professional you're a CA or you're an MBA or whatever like the professional that you are for that the client comes to you with a problem that okay they are not making enough profits they are not making enough sales they are not breaking even so when we when we say what this profile basically looks like it would be more of a consultant being a solution provider so if I'm there to analyze why the profits are not up or what the why the sales are not up which is basically their finance perspective like okay the sales are not going up that's more on the finances side that okay things are not happening clearly or the profits are not going up again a finances issue we have the costs high so right now what we need to do as a consultant is go there talk to them get a whole idea why the costing is high and when we're just talking about when the where why the costing is high we actually go up to the sales department ask them why this is happening we go downstream to the workforce to see how many people are there. So eventually we started with just finance but see we went upstream we went downstream. So in a way we got the whole view of the business. So as a solution provider when I start with A I go to B Z and everything. So it's it's like that's what gives me a 360 view because you are looking for this one solution only but for that one solution you kind of travel the whole business. So that's what makes it wholesome.

5:09 So I think that then as a management consultant uh one thing one skill that I can already pick up is you need to really have good people's obviously you need to be a good solution provider and you need to be a people's person you need to like actually talk to people and understand that okay what is the problem and you need to dig you need to do that digging stuff. Yes. So I think we have a very clear picture on what this uh profile looks like. Uh what are the industries that a management consultant needs to know about like all of them or like is there like a particular industry one needs to be aware of like what is that about? So, so there's no particular industry because of course the clients are well ranging there. If you're working in a big four suppose if you are a CF fresher then big fours have a high probability of getting you hired.

5:58 So if you're working in a big four of course huge variety of clients are there. There are clients from FS industry financial services. There are clients from uh probably uh you could say um manufacturing sector or or even consumer goods. So all of these clients are in the portfolio of that big four of of any consulting company for that matter. So what normally happens is that when you get a client you get to read about the industry you get to educate yourself before you actually go to the client. So if we are asking from an interview perspective what a candidate needs to know about uh industries then of course I would say whatever the candidate is mentioning on on his or her CV that they have probably audited or done tax work in this particular company. So instead of mentioning the company's name, they might as well just mention the industry's name and get to study about that particular industry because the highest chance of an interviewer asking a technical question would be around exactly that industry.

6:58 They don't want to know about how many skills you have or what you do, where you do. They don't want to know about audit. They don't want to know about tax because that's not what will make them uh aware about you. What they want to know is as a CF fresher if you are being hired they exactly just want to know are you open to learning about industries and when you're working in an industry be it audit or tax do you get to also get some awareness about the industry as a whole are you holistic in your education in nature when you are working with something that's what they want to know because in management consultancy where while you're working you have to do a lot of education yourself while you you are delivering to the client to know about the industry and you have to also seem very intelligent in front of the client so that they just don't take you for a toll. So all of that is kind of very important that you have to kind of educate yourself and that's like an ongoing process. So make sure whatever you have on your CV written as industries work here work there you read about them you read in depth about them so that the interviewer gets really impressed by what you have as an industry knowledge.

8:07 Okay. So I think uh uh from what you say I understand that uh a candidate appearing for an interview needs to be very very wellversed with the industries that he has actually worked in like uh like even if he's done an audit or a taxation for any companies then he needs to understand that uh what kind of an environment was that business functioning in how did it like perform what was how did it look like in the inside outside everything basically you need to really absolutely sharp on your points like okay this is this is how that all of those things are. So I'll give you an example with it. Uh when when I entered management consultancy I was basically an auditor.

8:45 I worked with EY as an auditor and uh I had mentioned on my CV that I have audited uh in the power sector. So now the power sector that that particular industry caught the eye of the interviewer and he asked me very basically like do you do you know what a PLF is? What is the full form of PLF and what it means? So now that term is very common in the power industry. So I knew that it's plant load factor and I did not know it while I was working but I actually learned while I was going through the study of the industry. So I think something like that really impresses them because sometimes even they have worked in that particular industry and they expect you to know certain common things around it.

9:26 So that's what helps. So I think that uh before you go for an interview you need to scan through the uh like the financials or the books like you need to know that okay this was what I actually worked in because anything can come your way like it's going to be a total surprise that okay and you it's always dependent on the interviewer that if he's well aware he may like drill down and go on asking you question he may probe you to the best extent possible or he might just be like okay fine fine you know the overview you're good so it really depends on what he is yeah so it's always best to be prepared for the worst so you uh you know curate all the best answer for everything that you put all that.

10:07 Right. Right. Right. So, Arshmir, uh, are there any particular skill sets that interviewers are looking for in this domain? Okay. Uh, so as you said, a per a people's person is definitely important. And when we talk about a people's person, we are here looking at communication. Now, when I say communication, I'm not in particular saying fluency in English. I'm not saying fluency in a particular language. But what I'm saying is the power to express. Are you able to express properly? If you have a problem or a solution in your mind, are you able to brainstorm that together? Are you able to say that okay, this is what I'm thinking should be the solution? Because there in in this profile, there'll be a lot of sitting together as consultants, as senior consultants and then you are brainstorming and coming up with the solution. So you have to be expressing that a lot. That's the part of communication that you need to get. Of course, problem identification would be a skill that if someone is telling you something, are you able to pinpoint the exact key gap then problem solving definitely and also if you talk about the technical or the computer skills then PowerPoint presentation is definitely the only thing we use. We don't use Excels at all. We just use PowerPoint presentation to make proposals to make uh deliveries of the uh implementation road maps as such and everything. Then also uh there should be no resistance to change. When you are sitting and brainstorming and if you have a solution in your mind, you shouldn't be saying that okay this is my solution and this is the best. You don't know what's the best. We have to give the client alternatives. So we actually don't know what it is. You should have also the interviewing techniques. You should be able to probe the person you are speaking with. You like if you have a client, you're talking to him. You shouldn't be sounding rude. again you should be fine talking to him or her and you should be able to probe questions and get the required information out of it. So that's also very important and of course data analytics and industry analysis is kind of um an add-on. It's not a mandatory skill as such but if you have a certain data on Excel you should be able to do some trend analysis something something of that sort should come in your mind like instantaneously and also to read about industries is one skill that you one should have not having the industry knowledge of course that's the best but to be able to analyze an industry when some information is coming to you so that kind of skill is all also required at various levels to get hired So I think uh you've pointed out some of the really important skills like first you said about you talked about communication skills. I think uh we can go on for hours tell saying that how important communication is because if you're not able to put your ideas into the best words and what's in your mind is not getting transferred to the other person then it you may have the best thing on mind but it may not get delivered. So I think communication is one thing that a candidate should be good at like at least he should be able to put the best uh his ideas into the best words possible.

13:13 Second you said that an idea uh uh problem identification like uh he should be sharp enough to understand that okay this is the whole scenario what are the problems or what are the glitches or where I need to step in and what is my contribution and how would I provide a solution to this. Absolutely. So I think uh that's the third skill that a candidate would require and the fourth one is PPT skills obviously that is like the basis of whatever a management consultant is basically projecting that okay this is how uh the problem looks like and this is how I am going to bring a change and provide solution yeah provide a solution and I'm going to make it better this uh particular way I think these are the key uh idea or the skill sets that a candidate should possess and of course having an open mind is what is required to like be open to take listening to your uh client what the client has to speak and all of those things are extremely important and data analytics and trying to understand what an industry is. I think being well with uh what is happening the trends or like your uh daily updates is something that could again uh help a candidate to be uh I mean a conscious effort of getting to exactly know what's happening around is kind of important. It tells a lot about how aware you are.

14:36 Okay. So for you if suppose you are the interviewer what would an ideal CV for you look like for this domain? like what is that one eye-catching thing that you would see in a CV and like uh you know take a candidate like that is there something like that so okay uh I'll answer your questions in two part your question in two parts uh so I would say if you're looking at a fresher and we we are supposed to hire him or her so now when we're looking at a fresher I'm not in particular looking a lot in the CV all I'm looking for in the CV is the industry like has the person mentioned the name of the industry and am I will I be able to ask him questions in that? If the person only says that okay I have just filled income tax returns now that person has nothing to do with industry he has already gotten some numbers crunched those numbers set of carry forward something he has done and just uploaded it on the website nothing major so that would be a very inferior kind of a CV for me I want to know about the industries you've worked in I want to know the audit work you've done the tax work you've done and have you really gone too far in your craft while you're working on all of these things. So I want to know their industries. So that that's very very important to me and as an article if I see freshers then people have worked in industries definitely there there would be no one exactly just filling ideas for three years.

16:03 So definitely they have done some industry work some something even even the um ROC work is good enough for me because if you have done that you know what it is you know what the formalities look like because as a consultant sometimes you're just hired to do formalities. So even that is good but I want to know I want to see the craft of your work the diversity. So definitely that's for a fresher and of course for a fresher the interview becomes very important because I want to understand from him and I want to exactly know can I mentor him can I can I make him uh go through the lifestyle of consulting can I actually make him to the make him come to the standard of my company so all of this is really important when I'm looking at a fresher.

16:46 uh now when I'm looking at an experienced person suppose an experienced in audit or some some experienced CA I would say then again uh first thing definitely I'm looking at industries secondly I'm also looking at the solutions the person has provided apart from whatever their role was if you were an auditor and you have like looked at certain things which were going wrong were you able to communicate that back to the management or to the internal auditor per se were you able to do all of those activities of solution or problem identification. I want to know that I want to know the technologies you worked in because this is very important for me to for me to understand. Do you have those um that ambit of technology that that knowledge of doing some data analytics any any anything of that sort that is also extremely important to me. So yeah, these kind of two three things I would look at in a CV and probably would go ahead and bring him to consulting or her to consulting. So that that would be something that I would look in a in an experienced CV. Now that that experience doesn't necessarily have to be consulting, but if the person wants to make a switch, then I just want that switch to not exactly be parallel, but not really downward sloping in that person's career to just give him a very lower starting position to start. So I want to see technology, I want to see uh consulting, I want to see solution in his or her CV no matter what the profile is.

18:16 So I think uh for a fresher there is a one one good takeaway from this would be that uh it would be better if he's breaking up his work experience into the industries that he's worked in rather than just breaking up into the kind of work that he he's done. maybe filed returns or he's done TDS or whatever whatever that means but rather just show us the diversity that you've worked in like show us what kind of different companies you touched or what are the different uh profiles that you worked under so I think that and what and for a person who's experienced I think it would be better if you show like what kind of an impact did you have in this work or how did you contribute or what was the solution that you provide or how does your brain actually work into bringing solutions to the test to the test.

19:04 Exactly. Exactly. I think that's a good takeaway for a lot of candidates. Yeah. And what are the uh technical questions that one may have to face in a management consultancy interview? So um again uh if you're looking at a fresher uh so I have seen that as a fresher I'm not really going into questions and asking them very technically on okay what does this mean what does that mean I'm not doing that because I am eventually there to coach them exactly what I'm looking at is are they able to speak properly are they able to uh are they will they be able to converse with the particular clients I have so all of that of course I'm looking at the industries they have specified in the CV and I'm asking them very very general questions about them because of course as an article I I know that they might not have been given so much exposure out there as an article to kind of go ahead and work in the industry.

20:00 So it's it's going to be very quick as in very very basic about the overview how it's going like and stuff like that. as a fresher I would do that then definitely as a uh as an experienced person if I'm if I'm here to judge someone if I'm here to ask someone anything technical then definitely very technical questions on the industry like if like I said in the bar industry I would ask them okay what is the industry average of profits that they are making what do you think are the best sales that we look at when we're looking at that particular industry so of course the sales number I want I want to know the profit numbered like if you're saying that I know about this industry what what are the projections what are the numbers what do you think is the best number out there what are the best industry practices in every kind of domain so if you're looking at these processes like uh procure to pay order to cash record to report all of these are some processes uh where we as a management consultant work and even auditors work to check controls IFC's so all of that I want to know how much experience you have over there in those domains. So if you're looking at internal financial controls and if you're looking at procure to pay. So I'll ask I'll ask the person to walk me through the process like in your particular industry if you say that I worked in manufacturing walk me through the process what what is it from where does it start where does it end when do we journalize all of that I give them particular questions on in between that okay the invoice did not receive me then what so stuff like that so that's something I would probe into for an experienced individual okay so I think there's a pressure there may not be a lot of technical questions coming your way but as an experienced person definitely there's a lot of probing happening like you will be asked questions to understand that okay if you're mentioning these things or if you're saying that you've done this this work then give us a like tell like let me see how good are you at it or like let me see how much did you actually understand out of what you've done so I think that would be a very good way to uh judge a candidate like how good enough is he going to be to handle the work and all that.

22:14 So, are there any good case studies or anything like a common case study that usually can come a student's way when they are trying to crack an interview for management consultation? So, uh when we're looking at case studies over here, we are definitely looking at uh the problems that normally a client faces. Uh so the problem can be as basic as uh so I I basically remember when I joined the company I I basically was asked that okay if a company wants to prepare itself for an IPO what what do you think as a consultant you are there to sit with them and make them prepared for an IPO that comes forward. So what do you think would be the best possible way to go ahead with?

22:56 So IPOs are kind of one of the favorites of the interviewers to ask a case study on definitely then extremely basic questions like uh when you're talking about uh if if I'm reconciling and the reconciliation is being done manually at this point of time what do you think are the solutions to it the possible solutions what what what should we do and the CFO is doing the reconciliation of two things so what do you think so of course the answers would lie in of course implementing in technology since you said it was manual then of course it would be like if the CFO is doing it can be delegated to someone we want to know the costing involved in this particular activity the frequency of the reconciliations that you do and then that's how we basically come down to the solution so that's how the bas the basic case study kind of works it can be as normal as a CFO doing reconciliation and quick as an answer that you would get that okay if it's being done manually it should be done technically it should be done uh technologically but uh when we're talking about IPOs definitely I don't expect people to know a lot about IPOs what they can do is just be very brief with okay when we're looking at technology the technologies should have the rates or the market rates or even the analysis should be done automatically we we might just hire people who are CFAs or experts in the market who who are investment bankers who can judge the trend of the market and have the most made out of the public money that we is then of course there should be a person who should be controlling the functions of the CFA who should be uh looking at uh or reviewing the work of CFAs and whatever they are doing for the market. So all of that now these are basic answers but they are valid answers since I do not know a lot about IPOs. I can give basic but valid answers just to tell the interviewer that I have not read it enough but yeah once I read it my solutioning quality would definitely improve but yes I have solutions right now as well and not one but two three because I am giving alternatives to you. So all of that really helps.

25:03 So I think uh in a case study based scenario question uh interview is not really judging the candidate on how right or how how perfect the answer is but what kind of a solution or how broad can the candidate think like okay how could how can he like how broad he can go or how much deeper he could think into the problem. I think it's your questioning mind that is getting judged here rather than your the answer is right or wrong will be secondary but primary is so you have the ability to think in the right direction.

25:36 Yeah. So, so I would basically suggest a person who is being subjected to an in to a case study to have just two things in mind and whenever he is and I say this to a lot of people always that whenever you are listening to a case always ask the person questions on the uh key limitations on the key gaps on the problems basically write down those problems in a piece of paper while the interview is going on and give solutions to exactly those problems. It would make your case study look very simple.

26:07 Wonderful. Yeah. So, structuring the problem that's given to you would be a very good way to come to a solution. Absolutely. Absolutely. And ask them questions. That's that's totally okay. Ask them questions. Right. Because sometimes the interviewer may purposely not give you all the facts to just see whether you are asking the right questions. Right. Exactly. Exactly. That happens a lot. Yeah. I think that is one thing uh one should just keep in mind while approaching these studies.

26:36 Uh so Ash are there any is there any material or source that you think would be like a good source to refer to? Is there something that in particular direction a candidate should be prepared in? uh trust me I honestly am against these sources because uh when when we are looking at these sources and when we are looking at these case studies very normally because we as I mean as a CS student I used to learn and I used to basically read and then restrict my mind to that because when a question came in the in the paper I am actually thinking of okay I read this from the study material and I need to write exactly what I've read nothing out of the box because that will only fetch me marks now That kind of mind we don't want in the interview. We really want to think out of the box.

27:24 So I don't want anyone any person who's going for a management consultancy interview to restrict his or her mind to the best possible solutions out there in the market. Instead think we know that we are hiring you and you are new. So definitely you are that you know you're like water and we need to kind of mentor you and get you into the best possible container. So we don't expect you to have the bestest answers because if you were the best, we wouldn't have been hiring you. You would have been probably opening your own company.

27:52 So that's that's we I I'm not actually against I'm not in for the books for reading before you go for an interview. You should be as clear as possible, but you should be aware definitely of what's happening around. That's what will impress the interviewer. anyone can read and go but it's like are you aware enough to go to an interview just open-minded and then read about it I think this is one out of the box uh solution not the solution but a tip because I think most of them would be of the idea that oh I need to read this I need to read that and they have a list of books that they're going on reading about reading about but I think one thing that we miss is that we actually have to trust our own uh intelligence and our own thinking capabilities rather than relying on what is done previously or what you answered like be there have your facts right but then obviously apply your own brains and trust your own intelligence is very true very true is the best I mean don't just restrict your mind to a particular situation I think this is what we are doing wrong by referring these books rather than doing it right we are getting it wrong like it just exactly and I think there's a bright possibility that an interviewer may not take you if you're giving textbook answers like if he sees that okay you're just reading out things that you've just read and you're just telling me that you you've not applied anything there's no creativity from your side that's coming of course of course if the interview asks you one how one why to that particular answer you give you'll of course be stuck because you did not read it in the book exactly so then what's the point that shakes you up a bit in an interview and you're like all over the place suddenly like what does what do I do in this situation yeah what just happened Yeah. Yeah, that happens.

29:39 Okay. So, I think that was a great trip and this is something that a lot of us should keep in mind. Uh there's a lot of noise about these companies when we talk about management consultancy. I think the second thing that comes to our mind is companies like BCG, Assenture and Company. So, and most of the students are targeting these companies. So, what is your view and opinion about getting into these companies? Okay. So if I talk about the work that they do, uh trust me, I have seen I've seen in all these companies because I've seen people taking parallel transfers from KPMG to all of these companies. So I have seen people doing exactly the same work. There is no difference on the work, the projects that they get, the clients that they get. Of course, the clients can vary in terms of the number or even the fees that they get. Of course, that's different. But when we're talking about the work, uh it's pretty much the same. It's it's not different.

30:34 Even the the only difference that I feel and I I just think it's a little unfair or maybe it's fair is that the big threes the Bay Mackenzie BCG kind of companies they don't hire CF freshers very easily they're looking at rankers again they're looking at rankers not for their strategies job they're looking at rankers for their finance jobs so a person who wants to get into management consultancy should first kind of gain experience around a big four because they can hire uh maybe a smaller midsized firm a consultancy firm where you can learn the work. If you have those adequate years of experience, then you're eligible to apply for one of these profiles in the big three. In big three, what happens is like if you are a CA, uh in a in a big four, people would say, okay, you are a finance specialist.

31:21 So, let's start with profits over here. You see the profits and an MBA would look at sales, an engineer would look at the technical aspect. But while as a CA also when I'm looking at finance as I said we can go upstream downstream and we can get a whole view of the picture. So once I'm doing that upstream downstream and getting the whole view of the picture for around two to three years now I get to know the exact business and the exact scenario and now when I apply in all these companies they take me for all of this because now you know it all now you are an MBA equivalent to us. You're not just a finance specialist you are a management consultant. So now we won't just give you problems which are finance related. We'll give you problems which are business related because now you are in a position to handle all of these.

32:06 You have gotten that experience. You have that craft. We have seen your CV. We've interviewed you. Now you're good enough for us to kind of go ahead with the business problems not just finance problems. Right. Right. So that's what makes it different in the entry level process. But if you see the work pretty much the same. Okay. So I think uh like if for a pressure if you're directly aiming at these companies and then you end up being disappointed that oh I dreamed of getting into this but this didn't happen. I I don't know I'm depressed now what to do with life.

32:38 So I think that's not the right way. you go step by step that is also going to take you there someday and create somewhere that if you are somebody whose approach is to get good hands-on experience then I think the big force or the small midsize firms is the way to go because that's where you will actually get to do things on your own like finance is one thing that you'll get to uh get into but also you may get a little bit of client uh exposure like you may get opportunities to talk to the client and that's what Exactly.

33:10 So I think very important. Yeah. Your target shouldn't be like to just get these nice looking brands on your CV. Rather actual hands-on experience would take you a longer way rather than just very very important. Right. Very important. I think uh one should definitely think about targeting these companies as well and should uh like uh target more on getting experience getting good and rich experience rather than just the right names or the tags that one of course fancy it towards uh very very important I think it's extremely important for us to look at the profile rather than just the company if you're getting strategies and operations out there in the um in the big threes I mean just take it that's the best but it's just that it's just too tough for a CF fresh to get that's the only thing so might as well just go step by step and eventually reach there or even if you don't want to reach there get a become partner over here in uh your own company or or probably just have your own management consultancy firm even that's allowed as a practice now correct by ICI clients I think may not be like initially it may be difficult for you to push the clients but then I think once you set up and you've made your name then that would be the best way to go ahead.

34:30 Yeah, that would be the best. I think that is also one uh option that a lot of students do not keep in mind but I think thinking about having your own thing was also something that one should of course it has its own uh riddle to go ahead with but I think uh that's why I always encourage a person to kind of go and work at a company so that while you are working with them you exactly get to learn and not just get to learn but also with the client you get to have some visibility and people see you for what you The client also knows that okay this is the person who gets my work done. So so hashir uh if suppose a candidate couldn't make through in a management consultancy profile then what are the nearby profiles that a candidate can rather go for if not this uh particular domain what is the close by options that one can explore.

35:22 All right. So when we're looking at the close by options, there are definitely uh different firms have different nomenclatures to their uh profiles and of course management consultancy won't come as management consultancy in a lot of profiles in a lot of companies. So it can come as a finance transformation. Now that really hires good number of CAS in PWC in PWC SDC I would say which is like the US uh constituent of PWC. I would normally not suggest you to join that because that is more of an offshore kind of a thing. So it won't give you a lot of ready client experience. So of course in PWC India you can join something like finance transformation.

36:04 You can join finance transformation in KPMG. So this finance transformation is one profile that you can look at in the job search to get into one of these uh management consultancy profiles. Then of course there is uh strategies on operations that is another consultancy profile. It it is offered by deote. It is offered by uh companies like accenture. So strategies on operations kind of come hand inhand with management consultancy and it makes your entry into the big three is very easy with this kind of role because the work is pretty much the same. Now uh there's business consulting. Now you get that a lot. You get that a lot in EY. You get that a lot in KBMG as well. Business consulting is also one of the options where you can get into and that's a parallel profile of management consultancy. So you get exactly the same kind of experience. So these are kind of the profiles I would say. Um now there is a profile which is close to management consultancy but it's a different domain itself and normally people confuse it with consultancy and when they hear about what the work is that is internal audit. A lot of people ask me what the diff what's the difference between internal audit and management consultancy. Now when you do some work in internal audit definitely an entry into the management consultancy profile is doable. It's it's possible.

37:25 Definitely that's okay because the start of the work is pretty much the same. You get to interview the cl interview the client. You get to understand the problem areas. You report to the management. you tell them okay these are the recommendations and these are the problems and you leave it at that but as a consultant as a management consultant you actually go and prepare an implementation road map for them you show them what the changes are going to look like and basically if if an uh internal auditor does A and B then management consultant goes up till zed so the A and B level definitely helps you get into this management consulting profile I wouldn't say go for it if you want to go into it. But definitely if you're not getting any of these profiles, even uh finance transformation, business consulting, strategies on operations, advisory, all of these things if you're not getting then you can get into internal audit and uh I think after one or two years shift into management consultancy in a of course a non- big three because big threes won't hire internal audit people then gain some experience over there and then go to the big three. So that's the kind of growth that you can probably see around internal audit coming into management consult into in management consultancy because that pretty much is the work which starts in a similar fashion does not conclude or the delivery is not the same. So that is how it works. So I think these are the options that you can rather be open to if not directly a management consultancy profile then these like the finance transformation and then there's strategies and operations there's uh risk analysis risk management and risk profiles I think or like a little further than the management consultancy profile would be internal audit but it is still one step in the right direction we could say exactly exactly so I think if you want to get closer to the you can be open to all of these profiles. Right.

39:24 Right. Absolutely. Absolutely. What does the growth trajectory in management consultancy look like? What does the hierarchy look like? So, of course, uh you as a CA fresher join as a consultant. So, as a management consultant and then you become the assistant manager, which is like the senior consultant level. So when you're a consultant of course you are doing uh the the brainstorming of course you're doing of course you are coming up with solutions and you are at that you are basically interviewing the client and being at the ground. Now when you are at the senior consultant level you are more into the strategies. So your work then is less of the data analysis, more on the strategy side, more on the brainstorming side, may more on either approving or rejecting a a solution that you might hear from one of the consultants. So that is what your role is as a senior consultant. Then of course you make the manager. Now the manager manages the whole engagement, not only the work but the engagement, the risk profiles. it it checks the independence of the per of the uh client that's coming in. So that's the role of a manager and of course uh handling two to three engagements is also one of the roles of the manager. So definitely you would be doing a lot of that as a manager and also you would be bringing in a lot of clients as a manager as well. So you would have that uh kind of pitching technique as a manager itself.

40:51 It comes early in your career. uh normally in other profiles it it comes when you are a senior manager or a director. Correct? So that's that's what happens but here the pitching power comes to you much early and when the pitching bar comes early it's a very clear indication that even the profit sharing that means the partner level would not be so far away. So it's just after the manager you make the director and the then the executive partner and then the partner. So, it's just two more steps and you're the partner or or probably two and a half if you're looking at an associate partner.

41:27 But it's just that when you become a manager, things become extremely easy for you because you are not down there working on the client. Uh you can be of course if the client is big, but you're not exactly doing what a consultant does. you are basically on more of the solutioning, strategizing side and everything of that sort and handling two three projects at the same time. And when you're doing this, when you're pitching the clients, definitely you are closer to becoming a partner. So make sure you do a lot of those pitching things or pitching techniques you take from the managers that you work with while you are a consultant. That's I that's something that I would really recommend because that helps you um become the manage become a partner in near future because it just gets a very clear good image in front of the partner of you.

42:16 So that's how the growth looks like. You can always switch you can always exit and become the CFO honestly because as a management consultant you are the virtual CFO of the company because you are a CA as well. So of course that comes in handy. If you are just working in finance, you become CFO. But if you're working in other things, then you become the CEO or something of lower. But definitely that's something that looks like that's something that you would look at when you're looking at the exit. If you want just don't want to become a partner, this is not what I'm meant to stay in. I I don't want to become a be in a consultancy firm all the time. Shift into an industry that you have worked in that you have an industry experience. You have rich industry experience and you have given a lot of solutions over there. Then clearly you understand the industry really well. You understand the pros and cons of that industry.

43:07 So the exit would be really simple in one of these industries and also making yourself to the sea suit or very close to the seau that in one or two years you actually become to the come come up to the CF or CEO level. So that really happens a lot. Okay. I think uh you've covered both the growth trajectory and what are the exit opportunities that one may have like if suppose they get into this and then maybe they are not so inclined towards it to go forward any further they can also like take these other routes that you just mentioned about.

43:42 Absolutely. Absolutely. So I think uh we've covered most of the questions. Coming to our last question and I think one of the most uh important criterias that one definitely looks at before getting into any profile and that's about how much of money is one going to make. So how lucrative how lucrative is this uh profile? Yeah. So uh traditionally this profile was not open to CS. This was an MBA profile always. People always used to prefer MBAs getting and it's such a common thing. It's not even a myth that MBAs definitely do make more money than CAS.

44:21 I don't know what why this happens but they do. Now since it's a traditional MBA profile and MBAs make a lot of money. Now this profile makes a lot of money. So money is definitely going to be more than what a CA makes in audit or tax. So that's for sure. Definitely because you are solutioning over here. You're strategizing over here and over you're not basically you are uh you're not complying with any kind of government formalities. you are thinking and strategizing and giving a solution there with right so that's of course of more value than anything else and all of these audit and tax I have this feeling that that might just get to an extent very automated in the near future because we are already having such tools in practice and they are being u trained at different levels of hierarchy so they will get automated but what will not get automated is the judgment is the strategies is the operations So all of these things will not be automated. Your strategizing mind cannot be automated. So that will always require human effort. So I think getting into something like this would be great when also you have great money coming in. So this profile is definitely 100 times more lucrative than the basic CA profiles that we see around. So that's a great thumbs up for the lucrativeness of this profile if that's a word.

45:47 uh so I think like uh here in this particular domain why is it a niche domain because here you are not in competition with any uh AI with any artificial intelligence here you don't have that risk of being replaced sooner or later like this is something that is always going to be reserved for human beings because this is where you look at every aspect of business use your own mind your own intelligence your own judgement ment and then your own observation and your own uh problem solving skills and a lot of other things goes into this profile and that's apart keeping aside obviously you get paid for something that you cannot be easily replaced at but apart from that I think this as a profile management consultancy is the way forward because a taxing and obviously we see like these days in audit also there is a lot of automation coming in you just put in your data and is your report. So these things are going to get like vanished in the future. But this is one profile. These are this is one of those many profiles very few profiles in fact that is actually going to be reserved for human beings and obviously you'll get paid handsomely for something that you are like irreplaceable.

47:07 So I think absolutely that was a wonderful like road map. I think you've given us a good road map on what this whole domain is and I think most of the questions that may come to a uh like a fresher's mind or a person who's who experienced but wants to get into this profile would have and I think thank you we've covered up most of it. Thanks for being so patient and absolutely question. Thank you for putting up such crisp questions. Definitely these are very very intrinsic questions and everyone should know about them and uh it made me get in touch with the basics as well. So of course thanks to you with that as well.

47:48 It was wonderful having you on board Ash. Thanks a lot. Thank you. Thank you Rushka. Thank you.