Data Protection vs Cyberbullying | The BIGGER Threat to Kids? Supreme Court Advocate Khushbu Jain

0:00 Five or six out of 10 child has gone through cyber bullying once in a lifetime. Is anything private today you cannot trust in my child's pictures have been shared online. My child's pictures have been morphed. I don't know if my child's digital footprint is being accessed. I'm sure as parents we have so many of these questions but don't know where to look for answers or we don't even know what are our rights. We've never been spoken to about cyber security, cyber bullying and how can we really protect our children from being safe online or if something goes south, what do we do next? What are the tools available? What is the government doing? And as always on the Kids Stop Press podcast, our attempt and endeavor is to bring in an expert to share the right information so you can take and make more informed choices. Welcome Kushbour to the podcast. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me here. Okay. Um give us a little background to why you decided to be in this space. why this whole cyber space and what are the different parts of it that you look into? Okay, so I'll be very very straightforward with you. I did not decide to be in this space. It just happened and I think for all of us um when we talk about cyber, it literally evolved in front of us and still evolving. Uh so you know dealing with corporate clients, dealing with matters came the aspect of privacy, came the aspect of uh corporates with cyber issues, cyber crimes like business email compromises and with that also came started coming little bit complaints because whatever was happening in the physical world when it comes to crime started happening in the online space like stalking like uh uh uh defamation like uh stealing you think of a physical world crime And it has taken a space in the digital form and with that started coming in. And when you talk about financial crimes uh yes you can fight it. It does need to have a lot but when you talk about crime against human child when you talk about women when talk about all these things it hurts a lot and there's much more deeper impact in a negative way which stays forever for whole of the life of it is where I think it started that a bit one also has to give it back to the society and that's where you can do a little bit interfering or understanding how this space is evolving and what one can be part of it and that's where I involve myself in in teeny tiny portion of my involvement when it comes to child safety and understanding the laws and imparting that part of it. So that's how your journey into this space began and tell me how is it evolving maybe like 10 years ago to where is it now and what do you see as majority of the cases? See uh start with 10 years before we don't have kids who were studying online. Today each and every kid is learning online.

3:03 The traditional mode of learning has been shifted to a hybrid or completely digital mode of learning. With that uh uh 10 years before the kids used to play in the parks, they still should play in the parks but now they play more on the on the digital platform. We watch movies online. No, you know there is less when it comes to we see entire transformation has happened of doing everything via technology or utilizing internet. That's why criminals also understand and a lot is happening when it comes to criminal side of it when you would talk about cyerspace right from grooming to uh to think of a crime and that's happening bullying which you know the word says cyber bullying which is such a small but you won't believe five or six out of 10 child has gone through bullying cyber bullying one it's once in a lifetime the numbers are so high I'm talking about six or five or six out of 10 students go through that cyber bullying and it has been said that almost 80% of the people in their lifelong has gone through some form of cyber bullying. It can be at any age but a child bullying the kind of impact. So in a nutshell if you'll see the crimes happening on internet today and how it has evolved is unimaginable.

4:17 We are today sitting in the age of AI. We all are very happy with AI coming in and the kind of transformation. But imagine the kind of crimes that AI brings in and how much we have to do when it comes to detection of those crimes, understanding, deciphering it, what is right, what is wrong, what is what is truth, what is actually real and doctor, video or a picture. And I think the the the world is at a different stage today. Right. Tell me simple language. What is cyber bullying?

4:49 Simple language. Cyber combinations.

5:33 Bulling cyber cyber. It can be a form of bullying. forms are fit in but I think I think the definitions will be much more clearer. It's very interesting that you say that that when you said that five or six out of 10 kids are bullied online. Um tell me what kind what kind of bullying is done? One you mentioned is obviously pictures, one is chat. Could it be nasty comments? Is that a form of Absolutely. Absolutely.

6:34 So the bullying cannot be uh what you define as bullying or what you are intending to do but when it's happening with me and if I am bullied is something which is bullying because then as a child I don't even know that I'm doing something wrong. Absolutely. Oh that's a very good point that you picked it up that so many of child are not aware when they do something that that's borderline criminal or that's criminal person. they are absolutely not aware that the things that they are doing are in a way illegal or a criminal act that they're doing it.

7:08 That's where I think lack of awareness is is is uh uh playing a very important role and we need to I think bring in that awareness because lot is happening without knowing a child committing a crime without knowing that he's committing a crime is a situation that we are in today. So I think that's a lack of awareness and knowledge among children, among parents, among teachers and among all of us as a society to make people aware what is right, what is wrong, what is legal, what is illegal, right?

7:39 Um, also I think Kushbu when you speak of awareness you know and I and I've been re-emphasizing and emphasizing on kids that please do not share things about at least your children whether it's their faces or it is about their personal details like which school which class which grade which area like I know people even tagging oh I stay in this building right and location they'll put as this uh XY Z Kaba or XY Z Bombay whatever like or even being in that place and tagging that location right so I think when you speaking of awareness I think people are not even aware of that level of threat that it could technically pose to them maybe I'll take it in a way that how crimes happen smoothly crimes happen because despite listening 20 podcast despite reading maybe 10 books M um the moment a criminal has a knowledge about you, has an information about you, it's very easy for him to make you believe or trust him. I'll give you one very small example. I'm taking a liberty of going little at a stretch. Yes, please do. Um let's say you're aware about everything.

8:53 Now today I give you a call and uh I say that uh uh hey u you know your u daughter is with us and if you don't give this much x amount of money then be prepared for xyz and you have to pay within this limited maybe 15 minutes of a time period and you'll be like how there's like your daughter coming from the school now it's she's with us from this school so they know that this school of your daughter then you're like then they say don't even try to move and uh uh you know the the the flower picture in front of you uh with the red sofa that you're sitting on. Uh we are absolutely watching. So don't don't even imagine of calling a local police. Are you scared? Yeah. But then you're aware that there are criminals who do these kind of things and you know they they they make up stories and it might actually not be true and you might be actually feeding into those stories because you've shared that okay this is my picture for the day this is where I am and they know that you this is my child this is the school first uniform 3:30 you're picking up your child and 3:30 it's in the bus and they said that you know the bus so they know the timing. Now let's say the second information is you must be playing game or your child must be playing the game where you have put up going to the next level. You have to click a picture of the wall where you're sitting. Then you have to share other information that click a picture of any of the photo frame in your house to go to the next level. It's nothing right? No money going. The child will just click the picture or you will just click the picture and go to the next level of the game. Now just just basic information which has no knowledge. Even if I tell you I've done this, you'll be like, "Yeah, whatever." But imagine compiling that entire information has so much information for that criminal to create.

10:41 All I'm saying is more information with a criminal. Easy for him to make you believe him and then fall prey for you. That part of it I'm only scared. No, don't be scared. All you have to do is be a little aware. See, we do it while driving. I spoke to you that last time also that when you drive, you learn the rules. the rules and regulations whether right side left side what are the things when to stop what do you mean by roundabout when you're on internet learn a little things absolutely like you said that when you know when we're driving we take we learn about driving and we take the driving test when we are handing over our kids digital devices where there's a phone laptop iPad computer there's no digital literacy program that they're actually going through so this makes so much so much sense to me um tell me um with most of us having social media accounts especially our children.

11:31 How do we make sure that they are safe? Like if you had to create a cyber curriculum for children, what would that say? See, first and foremost, a thumb rule. Anything which you share you feel can is cannot be shared in public or cannot be might create a problem for you or your family or your career or whatever for that for that matter. Do not share. You cannot trust internet. You cannot say that it's an end to-end encryption and I've shared personally with my friend and I trust my friend so much or near and dear ones or whosoever you are with. Uh one, you cannot trust the internet. Second, you cannot trust the platform that you are utilizing it.

12:12 Third, you cannot trust the person with whom you have shared. So any information that goes on internet is the information which should not create a problem or you are scared that information becomes public might have some sort of uh issues if it becomes a public number one rule thumb rule uh because we are just not talking about when I say trust um systems can be hacked these platforms data can be breached that information goes out they utilize it for purposes the person you have shared it might feel tomorrow might not be your best friend or whatever it is uh uh the equation changes might share it with somebody else. That friend of yours might have another best friend where the picture is is shared or that information is shared becomes a problem. I'm just talking about be very very very selective when you're sharing the picture and be very calculative when you're doing that. Uh we are living in the age of FOMO and infomic that you know we want to share as much as possible. We want to look amazing when it comes to uh uh to to to to the world of internet or social media. I think we need to understand that part that how this works and this happens because whatever goes on internet is not yours. You don't have control over that data which you put it on internet. Thumb rule number one.

13:25 Number two, let's say something has happened. Any of the platforms that you utilize it, be aware what are exactly the norms when it comes to put a complaint. Be aware about those things. Number three, um be aware about basic rights. When it comes to pictures, you have an ownership to your pictures. You can file a complaint. When it comes to any other thing, there is an aspect of copyright. There is an aspect of uh uh other IP rights which you have it a personality rights then after that if somebody has mocked your picture or if there's a private picture of yours which is shared be aware about basic laws that none of the private pictures can be shared on internet. It can be child, it can be anybody else. But there are specific stringent laws which are there which are punishable offense. So just because you have shared a picture with your near and dear ones doesn't mean he or she has a right to share that picture. Or let's say a two people have clicked the picture together. Now the other person is sharing that picture because that was clicked together with the consent.

14:27 That's not the consent. Okay. Amazing. So don't be scared. Now when these things happen first and foremost please go and complain on those platforms to take that down there are appropriate measures which are there very clearly been defined utilize them take it down number two cybercrime.gov.in I'll repeat cybercrime.gov.in Why I'm saying that this platform can be utilized for you to file a complaint anonymously or knowingly being being known and you can complain and it actually works smoothly. So any kind of complaints that come over go to cybercrime.jov.in register the complaint whether you want to be anonymous you have that option to be if it is by a friend also like for example you see that a friend of yours is having this issue and not being able to take a call you can file on behalf of a friend interesting so do that and number four I think it is for both parents and kids you need to be together in this because it's a fight against the criminal not a fight against between you two so I think both of you have to come together and then the society has to come together there all of us together fight against this criminal we need to stop victimizing the victim and stop being scared so the complaint part when I say don't be scared of the police start complaining there are effective measures to do that at least start acting don't be scared and I think these are the things everybody has to keep in mind interesting interesting that you say that and that brings me to my next question which is taking a leave from what you said which is if I have clicked a picture with somebody they cannot share that without my consent. That's one. If I have shared something with you, say on WhatsApp or a social media platform, you that still does not give you the right to release that on my behalf. Did I get that right?

16:23 Absolutely. If it's a private picture. Mhm. uh if it's a picture which can be called um indecent if it has a little bit of showing of any kind of body parts which have been defined in the IT act uh cannot be shared by anybody but otherwise also cannot be shared without your consent just because it is there only when it comes to pictures which are clicked at public places because public places pictures are public places pictures but again if they are inappropriate or they are very private you can have an objection to that and one cannot share it. So be a little bit selective. If you are sharing the picture of somebody and be a little bit proactive if somebody has shared, you can absolutely request. But I again say that this is for world where it's you and me. But there is a world in you and me. There is a there are criminals. So do not share things. Yeah. Because there are criminals who are waiting for this.

17:16 There are people who are your friends, online friends, so-called close online friends. They become your online friends. They know how to navigate. You know, there are AI bots. Yeah. which actually works very amazingly uh where grooming can happen where uh you know any sort of things can happen and they can be your best friends and how swiftly they turn into an aspect that it turns into into an situation where it becomes a blackmail and a situation which is I don't want to go to that detail you see that movie control how not not yet I have heard and it's in my and and how I would have loved to ask how true is that take control of my life you can actually Ask me the question and I can tell you how true but I've not read seen the movie but it is really where she shares a lot of information with that AI chatbot and that is being used whether it was passwords sharing passwords of her inbox sharing passwords of the drive and how the bot actually goes against her to say but you shared this sort of information with me so now how is it private? Uh it's a little futuristic but it's not away. The future is not yet but yes uh one can always hack the chatbot and utilize that information in a manner they want to utilize it or give instructions to the chatbot but that's yet not because we have not yet to come to a level where we use the chatbot AI personalized chatbot who does everything for us right from booking our tickets to doing this to doing that you know a personalized PA if I have to put it across so that has yet not transfor come up in a manner that how it should but I think that that future is very near Absolutely. Also again circling back to your previous question which is when I am sharing any image on my social media pages or as a display picture somewhere can that be used without consent.

19:09 Um see again uh it's it's not that a straight answer because whenever you share anything which is a public any public information or a picture is a public information you have anybody has a right to uh utilize that anything which is private is something which is private which somebody doesn't have a right but if I have to scare a little more go to any of the social media platforms including Google and just read their terms and conditions and privacy policy they have right to Everything which you share on their platform they have an ownership to that or a joint ownership to have to put it across though whether it is uh it can be implemented or it can be it can be uh challenged. Yes, it can be but in a manner if you look you all have contractual liability with any of the AI tools that you have used you know that face app which you which which we used uh the those apps which create some amazing videos or doctor your pictures or you know start making use it anywhere whatever you use it just read simple plain terms and conditions or privacy policy then you will not ask me this question.

20:14 I mean is anything is anything private today? Uh no anything which you as I started with whatever you put on the world of internet it is public is in public domain. Interesting also a very um you know I see a lot of schools and educational institutions sharing pictures of their students online on their social media pages or on their websites etc. Are schools and educational institutions compelled to take consent?

20:48 Yes. If I have to see um u right to privacy that's your fundamental right after 2017 and then I see the other aspect when it comes to DPDP act which came into existence in the year 2023. Now the digital personal data protection act the DPDP act specifically talks about that any information of mine which you're utilizing it for whatever purpose you need to take a consent from me without that consent you cannot use that information. Now and when it comes to children data, they have been very specific on children data that children data or their behavioral uh analysis or uh any kind of content that can be shared with children. All these things cannot be done and there are some levels which can be done but a parent consent has to be a a parent or a legal guardian consent has to be mandatory. In case they don't have it, there is a penalty which is up to 150 K on the act up to 150 K when it comes to this. But there are certain things which absolutely cannot be done. But when it comes to these kind of uh information, yes, there is there are laws in place. I'm still waiting for DPDP act rules to come up.

22:02 The act has already been come up. the rules to come up the once the rules come up and the penalties start imposing I think uh there would be much more sanity in the world of sharing and uh using the pictures the way people are using it right so does that also mean that that's the reason why the ABAR ID needs the parent Aadhaar card details as well absolutely absolutely because without that they they can't use anything they need permission now from the from the from the parent but see I I go a little beyond this because that's what a little bit what law can bring him. But when we talk about this, we need to stop sharing our children's images even when you have a right to give a consent on your child's behalf because a child turning 18 after that might not relate and might find that as a bullying. I agree. So there or there should be a law which a provision which CCPA the Californiaifornian law also had a had a provision for which can be if it can be would be the best thing that after attaining the age of 18 I as a person should be given a right that I can exercise my right to be forgotten. So whatever is there before 18 whether consented by my parent I should have a right whether it should be there or it shouldn't be there and it should be completely erased from all other places on the internet not just one but wherever possible it is possible it is happening in different states it is possible nothing is not possible no I'm saying retracting the images back because not retracting it deleting it completely but that's that's there today also the DPDPA act is also talking about you have right to erasure which says that today I have asked you that yes take my information utilize my information tomorrow I say that no I want to erase I have a right to erasure in the act got it not giving me that is up to 50 cr of a penalty and it's not India GDPR European Union they are doing it all these platforms are abiding it whether they actually do it or don't do it is a secondary thing got it and when they don't do it and if it is found it's a 50 cr of a penalty here and and in European Union it's a 2 to 4% of a penalty of their global turnover.

24:09 4% of the global turnover of that company will be the penalty that can be imposed up to. So it's not uh not not possible because when it comes to technology they are absolutely aware about there are data discovery data mapping tools which are there where they absolutely know at where all places your data is going. If you today also go and exercise it European Union may you have right to access where they give you right to access the data where you can request what all data of mine is there with you. Mhm. So they absolutely it's it's not that they are not aware it's just they need to bring in that uh system in place so that u u today I still continue to have right over my own data. Tell me also we spoke of this you know there's been a lot of news on the Australian government banning social media usage for kids under 16. Tell me how does a government regulate this implement this and how can companies execute this? Okay. Um, US has been the Australia has been the first one to bring it in the world and all countries are thinking about that because you're talking about securing your future. That's your children. How is it possible? Why it is done and what exactly it is? What exactly it is? They are saying that social media platforms or certain other platforms are being utilized uh are utilized by criminals are utilized by some anti- national actors are utilized by some groups um which in a way will have an impact on children which is not good or which converts into a crime a cyber crime. It can be grooming, bullying or so on and so forth. And it can have an impact which make sure that the children are not skilled but they get into the world which is uh which is dumbing than dam or more. I'm very candid with you on that part. So that impact is something which is creating a problem in children next and that's why they said that certain social media platforms not all of them certain social media platforms will be absolutely banned because to look into what is right what is wrong whether this is good for child not good for child they are saying that certain platforms after understanding should be completely banned after that there are certain platforms which will continue and then there is an other aspect where they're saying that there should be a uh consent part of it consent set as an age appropriateness of what content a content for a 5-year-old kid will be very different than a content for a 16 year old kid and might be different. So not entire child can be one category. So how it can be implemented they have still to come up with that that how it would be possible because it's very easy for a child to practically create a plat you know a a fake fake account and they're doing so we have six seven years 9 years old kids also on platforms using Instagrams and so and other things um there are hefty penalties on platforms now platforms should understand that the child is there or not there and should have strong KYC with that KYC they should make sure that a child is not there on those platforms Are we risking our privacy by asking platforms to do KYC? Are we palming the complete burden on to them? Uh but then but then where else one was that you you put I understand what where where you coming but I'm saying first and foremost it would be parents who should do this right but uh for parent to understand what's going on on social media platforms or other other internet platforms which are there or those games it's it's it's slightly difficult for them to to catch up with that part a platform or those places like for example Tik Tok They are very well aware about what kind of data and what kind of information they are feeding to children. They understand that there are there are proper algorithmic uh uh manipulations that happen and there are absolutely clear understanding for them to have what's happening what's not happening. So why not put the burden on them because it's their earning model they're earning out of it. Make sure that don't commit I'll give you one example I say in a physical world and real world is absolutely identical. any of the any of the bar where liquor is served the liability they say 21 below cannot come. The liability is on the on those uh bars not on the other place. If if a child is found who is below 21 there are strict penalties. Right. So it is practically on them to check whether you are 21 above or not to give you the entry. Right. Right. Interesting. Okay.

28:50 Um coming on to how our kids need to be in the digital space and we all understand that um and you know we keep telling all the parents on kids stopped please ensure that you're aware and you make your kids aware of the digital footprint that they're leaving behind. Um and you spoke of friends who are friends today friends not tomorrow. Now in this world of AI and deep fake, how can one ensure that and what are their rights? Again I come back to rights and therefore what they should do next, right? What is the action plan of the family if something has been compromised or morphed or shared in in the cyber world? Okay. Uh I'll give you direct answer to the question that you're asking me that if something has happened um number one cyber crime.gov.in 1 1930 is another number which is government of India's number. Um nearest police station you can file a complaint.

29:51 Uh if it's a if it's a very sensitive issue it can be done online and they can come home and take a signature. Yes. Uh in certain issues not all of them that there is a possibility but there are certain criterias which are mentioned in the new criminal laws which gives you that provision. Uh there are fasttrack courts to deal with uh uh uh issues with related to child. Those fasttrack codes are very dedicatedly made in 2025 if you leave there is a notification. So those fasttrack codes will make sure that the there's a speedy justice system when it comes to when it comes to child.

30:24 First and foremost as a house, as a family, as a parent, you have to be aware about what are what are your rights? What are your child's rights? Because what happens when something goes wrong, you start crit, you know, criticizing the child without understanding that what are exactly the norms. Just by me sharing the picture with somebody else doesn't give them the right to do something. Just by there some platform and somebody has created another profile of mine morphing the picture doing something doesn't mean I am the one doing the crime by being on that platform and first and foremost that comes from the family is stop being on that platform it's your mistake that you were there on that platform so we need to stop victimizing the victim that means you need to understand what are your rights ideally somebody who has created another profile morph the picture used tools like uh AI tools to create any deep fake videos or pictures.

31:19 These are all punishable offenses and they have no right to do so. So instead of criticizing your child, you need to make sure that you file. Now I'm not saying that do not teach your child. Yes, that should have been done much before and I say this every time and I said this to you. We had also had a discussion in Delhi about that that you need you cannot be away from the child. You cannot say that these games are for the children, these platforms are for the children. Ghana those days you need to be as friendly as possible with your child and when I'm saying as friendly as possible please spend some time in playing games with them in understanding which all platforms discord uh Instagram reels what exactly are they sharing what kind of pictures are they sharing among their own personal groups I understand right to privacy but when it comes to your child safety I think you need to be little more friendly and be more involved in understanding why I'm saying that you need to play game not know that which game they're playing because you know when you play games there have been fourth level that fourth level the game is going very smooth fourth level is there they ask you that you know go to next you have to strip this lady and it psychologically impacts the child it's absolutely offensive but it might not be aware about I mean nobody's aware about that that happens so play with them to understand because then you would know what's right and wrong for your child over there how much to share abusive languages utilize on these uh any of these gaming platforms or any other places. To know all these things, you have to be with them. You have to involve yourself. Uh put every day some time or put at least week may 1 hour, 2 hour with your child to be doing all these things which they do rather than just asking them what you're doing. Got it? And then then make sure that you know they're safe safe from all these things. Right. Um also another question that comes to mind is today our kids are global citizens, right? So one is what so how does it work in the s sense of Indian laws versus international laws in case of cyber safety is that even a space okay uh there are treaties which were been there where all countries who are signary to it would seamlessly share information and do things uh when it comes to police um but then uh there is another thing which is coming up by United Nations where they are making sure that there is a seamless information sharing and dedication dedicated wing in each country which are together in one one sync to fight globally with cyber criminals. Apart from that when you talk about global citizen our children being global citizen we have state police uh laws work mysteriously but then complaint can be filed actions can be taken any laws which are there in India are applicable on Indian citizen this even if the crime has happened from anywhere outside. Mhm.

34:10 So let's say you're sitting in Africa and you have committed a you have done something which is a criminal act right and that has happened to an Indian child it's a criminal offense and it's an extraator jurisdiction that would apply provided same manner that if you if you do a murder of somebody uh or if you say something it might not be defamatory there but it's defamatory here it would be tried as a defamation but then I understand that it's very difficult when it comes to implementation because for small things you don't expect your local police to go to Africa or any other state and pick up that person and bring it and I think there is a that's where there is a need of a global um uh global laws when it comes to cyber and global uh policing when it comes to cyber right um in case of children you know where images or nude images etc have been shared I know that people believe that report right and we've we've seen cases of children actually thinking it's easier to take their lives versus report. Um, one is when they report are these erasable images when they've gone down to so many phones and so many accounts etc. and the damage has already been done. One, is it erasable completely? And second is um what are the kind of punishments that are levied and how soon can one get justice? Okay.

35:46 Um yes um these are punishable crimes. There are laws in place for all these things. Punishments are also hefty punishments where uh there there are sentences to these kind of crimes that are happening. Whether those pictures can be taken down. Yes, it can be taken down. Only when problem comes is when you share pictures via direct messaging platforms which is a private group. Like for example, I share the picture with you on Discord or a uh WhatsApp. Now it is lying in your phone and then you share with 40 more people.

36:17 It is lying in your phone. That cannot be. But if it's on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, uh or any other platform or any other URL, you know, website on internet, it can be deleted. Absolutely. It can be deleted at all the places. All you have to do is I'm again saying please please please file a complaint. Do not be scared of filing a complaint just because of the stigma. Just because we are scared to file a complaint just because society victimizes the victim and we are scared the victims are scared to go to the police. The criminals are becoming that this is a safe space to commit a crime because I'll be scot-free. Right? Number one you will not complain. Number two, when you complain, it will create a problem because laws to catch up, then implementation, then judiciary. Yes. But I think all of that is now catching up.

37:03 We have got new laws in place. There has been lot of changes in your IPC. It has become BNS. All the three uh you know Indian evidence act uh IPC. they have been transformed and bring in lot of technology enabled solutions when it comes to uh when it comes to right from filing an FIR to recording a statement to a matter to be done to fasttrack courts as I was talking about and when it comes to matters like this there have been special sections which are dealing in the police stations with cyber crimes and especially these I think there is more when it comes to child related issues because they have to be dealt differently than any other issues that are coming up and I think that's where even I4C is looking into bringing in more cyber commandos in all spaces. I4C is a is a wing of u home ministry ministry of home min home affairs and I think after that is where we are seeing in but in a nutshell please file a complaint yes it can be taken down if it's not privately staying in somebody's phone uh uh whether they are caught yes they are caught only in some cases that they go scot-free but no majority of them can be caught plus even if they are not caught in that specific time period uh at least some Justice when it comes to taking down the content is done. When it comes to repeated offenses, a government is also utilizing creating a lot of u uh inventory to understand that okay these are the hot spots from where they are coming in to you know these are much larger than what we feel because they don't do it for one or two. These criminals are literally working with thousands and thousands of children attacking. It's literally like a business that they sit and do and as much as su succession happens over there. So you I mean without complaining you practically cannot do anything right? Also um a question that sort of comes to mind as a parent is when my child is not part of a crime or an act in case of say cyber bullying but has had a discussion and let me bring to light the recent Kochi suicide case which happened right where a 15year-old decided after being bullied that it was easier to take his life than to confront front his parents or his colleagues or whatever and there was a lot of discussion that happened amongst the other children which was then accessed. So again, if my child is not the bully, then how much uh privacy is he granted or are all his chats and if he's even spoken about that incident in any of his chats, can that be held against him? And if the child is the bully, then what is my uh act to privacy or how much access does the government have in both cases? Okay, first of all, government doesn't have access. It's the police that would have an access. Um uh we have to understand that they just don't take away your privacy. There's a due process that has to be followed even by the police. It cannot be they just pick up all your phones and they read chats and you know utilize that information the way they want to. No. But when you talk about that even if there is a child who is not exactly the bully but some chat groups where that information is there and he's part of that group. Yeah. uh those informations are required because if you don't get those evidences practically it's impossible sometimes to even reach the main culprit the the buller a bullying bully guy or the or or even if after that uh even if you catch hold you need evidences in place right for for the matter to go ahead that's where I think it's absolutely fine when it comes to u investigation whatever investigation following the due process the law enforcement agencies have rights to ask for information again uh physical world if something happens they come with a warrant at your house that there appears to be something found in you know kept in the that premises we need to search those premises it's the same way but whether they can go beyond that no they cannot go beyond that that's where your privacy question comes is that if they're reading and they need information related to that specific aspect which is some chat group or some chats which have happened in a group or in a silo they can use that any other information which is there on the phone which is not related to the cash in hand. They cannot use that information and they cannot invade into your privacy and that would be infringement of your privacy. Got it. Um last question would be what are we to expect in this space which seems dark, scary uh but we can't resist being there. What can we expect and what should we warn our kids about?

41:47 U M I think this is the space which cannot be uh predicted. Yeah. Cannot be predicted but at the same time this is the space cannot be shut also. We cannot be away from internet. We cannot be away from technology uh which is coming in. Um first and foremost as I say be aware about your rights. Be aware about when you're navigating a space which is an internet understand what can go wrong over there. Once you are aware then you navigate that space because then you're aware about it and if be very handy as to if something goes wrong this is the place to be. So dos and don'ts, understanding your uh uh rights are something which are very important. Uh near future I think when when you say that it's easy to commit a crime uh commit a suicide if some information of yours which is out we are literally today in the age of AI where understanding what is real and what is not real will be impossible.

42:46 Mhm. So I think today we have to go beyond and make sure that little bit more aware about like for example if I share a picture with you of your child and show you need to first and foremost as a parent understand whether it it can be a doctorred picture. Why I'm saying that because tomorrow lot of people will be victim of pictures or videos that would be created by AI. So understand the way technology is going because without understanding technology you'll be you'll be shocked.

43:19 You'll be you'll be with the surprises every day and you might feel uncomfortable feel that I am being shamed and best course is to shut down myself to be completely inside you know four walls or commit a suicide. So I think that's where we need to understand uh internet what beauty it brings in what dangers it brings in what are my options if there is a danger and after that what all new things technology can do so that you are aware that this can be done by technology and these are my options right and one last question I know I said this one was the last one but this is the obvious next and again I spoke you spoke about this in Delhi what is the government doing uh that you would love to talk about in the space of cyber security Um government is doing a lot with IT rules in 2021 to DPDP act.

44:05 IT rules talk about taking the content down within 3 hours, 6 hours, 24 hours of a time period with the sensitivity and the kind of content it is. U making sure that social media platform shares the information with the law enforcement agencies. You as an individual have a right to complain on these platforms. Giving you DPDP, giving you an ownership to your own data, right to erasure, right to access when it comes to your data rather than being handicapped. uh uh I think government is doing a lot when it comes to bringing in these laws doing a lot when it comes to making changes in the in the laws when it comes to cyber crime making sure a lot is done when it comes to uh investigation and policing with that I am hoping more can be done when it comes to AI related crimes that are coming in and making sure that these laws which come in are been implemented strictly I'll give one small example for you to close close today's talk that would be UK is trying to bring in a law which says that any AI platform which is creating a CISAM material child sexually abusive content uh any tool which is making it I'm giving a tool you put your picture or you put somebody else's picture and create a picture or a or a or a video that's a child image which is now created into a content which is a pornographic content that tool should be punished because they are aiding it to any platform where those tools are available like Google Play Store or App Store should also be punished because they are also aiding to it and after that obviously who's who's creating it should be punished. So I think those kind of things have to come in because tomorrow is the world where tools technologies are the one who are driving all these things and the answer should be tools and technologies only when it comes to fighting against these tools and technologies. Amazing.

45:53 What are the dangers of sharing my child's image online today? um you should refrain yourself from doing so. Why? Because one um the pictures can be utilized. It can be utilized for uh in the AI one can use picture and create any other picture. Uh it can morph. It can absolutely be look alike. Plus those pictures which you put it online become public images and those pictures cannot be taken back in a way which creates a problem because your child might not relate with those pictures tomorrow. So it's absolutely be very restrictive when it comes to sharing a picture of your child. I'm not saying that you should not be there on internet. Your child shouldn't be there on the internet. But you know restrain yourself from sharing those pictures. Uh apart from that pictures, videos if you put across if there is a voice all one needs is 8 seconds of voice of your child and they can create absolutely 90% similar voice of your child. And tomorrow let's say some ransom call comes and where your child is saying something and you're like oh this is my child. So a lot can be done when it comes to information when it comes to any of the pictures which are there less you share more secure for you and your children right.

47:05 Plus uh see there are child sexually abusive content that can be made by deep fake. Uh one picture of your child one can convert those pictures. So there are technologies which can use the voice which can use the picture to create a lookalike voice exact voice to an extent. Um a video or a sexually abusive content material uh which can be picture or a video and that can be out and even after knowing that whether it is right or wrong whether it is real or not real if those pictures and videos are shared so much damage can be done to you and to your child and the kind of psychological impact that child will go through. So best is to refrain yourself from sharing all those pictures and even if you're sharing be little aware about privacy settings what are the what are the options available on those platforms where you're sharing what can be what how much it can be restrictive and cannot be restrictive and I think that's that's a must for a child for a parent to remember again I understand we are living in that age where we have influencers and we have child influencers coming in and it's becoming an industry where they earn maybe a lak per pictures or videos or post they put it across. I think we need to stop with that as well. As a parent, you need to think more about your child's safety, security, and the future rather than thinking of a very immediate gain which you're getting out of it. Right. Thank you so much. Uh there have been moments in this conversation where I've had goosebumps, where I have got really scared, where I've got um I' I've reflected a lot and of course uh so many uh you know questions that still brim but that calls for a second podcast with Kushbu. Absolutely. But this has been so empowering and informative and I'm so glad that we did this chat today and I'm just so glad that you're working so hard in this space uh to empower more and more people to um to to come up and share and to report I think which is something that many people didn't even know. I I mean before your before your chat I didn't even know there was something called cybercrime.gov.

49:13 I didn't know that. I didn't know 1930. So I am feeling more empowered after this talk. So thank you so much. No, but I should thank you for having a podcast which is dedicated to children, for doing so much when it comes to child safety and I think it needs a lot to be dedicated to this effort for securing the future. Thank you. Thank you so much. For parenting tips, celebrity interviews, recipes, conversations with experts, DIYs, and lots more, subscribe to Kidstop Press