How does the 3M $7.35B Settlement Forever Chemicals Work? - Joe Fantini & Michael Stanisci

0:00 Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. I am back here with one of my best friends in and out of the legal industry, Joe Fantini. Joe, thank you for joining the show again, Ricopy and Council. >> Thanks for having me, Michael. Always >> to get together here with you. a lot going on in the world of mass tors as always. So happy to you know, talk about some good news here. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean the the the 800 lb the,000 lb the 7 billion pound gorilla right now is actually the PFAS the POS PFOS the forever chemical resolution or pathway to resolution with 3M and you know there's some articles out there and different things you have a lot of these cases you have your finger right on the pulse of this because you represent individuals in this matter so what can you tell us about this this news is it good first of all is it good news what can you tell us >> yeah I think it's great news right any anytime we get a settlement for our clients it's it's good news right these cases have been going on for a decade it's it's kind of been the year of the settlement here in mass tors right we're bringing some of these legacy torsup talc you know alf to an end so I think it's good for these clients cuz a lot of them have very serious injuries and you know their time's coming to an end. It's limited. So when we can get this resolution I think it's good news and like you said it's it's a big number the 7 billion plus is good. So, like you mentioned, right, this is just against 3M. It's preliminary, right? We're just really getting started. You know, these settlements take a while. We got to figure who's eligible, how many cases there are, kind of ddup it, and then people will be put through a matrix to ultimately come out with an award.

2:04 >> Yeah. Yeah. So, one of the things, if you don't mind taking a beat about this, that I read on on Reuters was that this is going to cover roughly 99% of the personal injury claims in and out of the MDL. Do you know if that's accurate or or what's what's to your knowledge? How do you understand that to be read? >> Yeah, that's correct. So, you know, most of the cases were filed directly into the MDL. So once a mass set up, the judge enters this order that says, "Hey, even if your case would have been filed in Pennsylvania federal court, you can file it here directly into South Carolina federal court under this direct filing order, but some people for various reasons, maybe the state law in a jurisdiction is a little bit better.

2:56 there's longer statute of limitations. There's punitive damages. people sometimes file them outside of the MDL, but what happens mostly is those cases kind of get gobbled up and then they get moved over into the MDL. So the defendants remove them from state court to federal court and then any case in federal court gets transferred over by the JPML. So, there's also some state court allegations where the defendants weren't always diverse. So, you don't have diversity of parties, but every case pretty much that has 3M as a defendant is going to be involved in the settlement. you know, the 99% probably relates to some people who don't participate in the settlement or there are a couple cases that are outside of these compensible injuries that are still going to be out there.

3:56 >> So, the injuries, let me know if there's anything I'm missing here because I know there was kidney testicular cancers. So kidney cancer, testicular cancer, there was the conversation about liver cancer, ulcerative colitis, and is it thyroid disease or thyroid cancer? >> Both. So that that makes up the the top six. >> So those those are the only compensible injuries. in the litigation about a year ago or so, leadership, plaintiff leadership signal, hey, we're not really going to be able to support these other cases like prostate or breast cancer. so then the court entered an order which allowed you to dismiss the case without prejudice. So if the science were to change down the line, you could come back and file it.

4:48 So, the majority of the cases filed in the MDL and anywhere else in the country are really going to be that top six. I was happy to hear it includes all six, right? We talked a lot about everybody in the mass tour space did. Is it really only going to be kidney and testicular or is there this opportunity for these other maybe we'll call them tier 2 and tier three injuries to get included might not get the same award amount as a kidney or testicular but that's a good group and it it was a big relief to hear that for sure.

5:27 >> Yeah. So the science found a a positive correlation and they're going to do what's right. That's actually you know hats off to 3M. I mean, they had, I believe it was 2023, they had just paid 10 billion or so for the US public water systems, and now they're doing what's right for the personal injury claims, the NDL. Now, that MDL included, you said the AF, that was the Aquest film forming foam. So, these are firefighters, you know, our real heroes in the world, besides yourself.

5:58 and also individuals. Now, one of the things I was curious about, and I've had a couple people ask me, civilians like myself, non- lawyers, what happens, if someone's diagnosed next year, like do they have a pathway as well or is this precluding only the people before that? Please. Yeah. >> Yeah. No, good question. Yeah, the cases, you know, go on. like somebody could be diagnosed next week, next month, two, three years. So, what happens is the judge enters an order, what we usually call a lone pine order, and it says, "Hey, for these later qualifying claimants, you can get in and you can participate, but there's additional requirements and maybe hurdles that you have to submit earlier in your case. So usually in a mass with thousand, tens of thousand, hundred thousand claimants, you know, you submit a fact sheet, you file the complaint, don't really do as much at that time.

7:01 But for these new newly diagnosed plaintiffs, they're going to have to come in do a longer fact sheets really come forward with the proof up front of this is where I was exposed. Here's a medical record showing the diagnosis and then also here's my expert who's going to correlate my exposure and my injury to a product by one of these manufacturers. So cases are definitely open. you're not going to see a lot of people out there marketing and acquiring them, but if you come across one, you you certainly can. And so in these cases, it's two categories of people. It's going to be the drinking water cases and the direct exposure cases are, you know, all included in the settlement. And it's going to really come down to the majority of the cases will be the drinking water. So they're when they're evaluating the case, it's going to be okay, what's your injury? How long were you exposed, what was your exposure, drinking water or you know, direct exposure? and that's going to help determine part of your award amount.

8:12 >> That's wonderful. So the people, the communities, the individuals that were having, you know, in the actual harm done to them, they have a pathway to resolution. So you'll you'll still take those those cases if if not that you're going to go out there and advertise and market for them, but if you know someone unfortunately or you are someone who gets diagnosed with one of those five adverse events, liver, liver cancer, testicular cancer, kidney cancer, thyroid cancer, thyroid disease, and ulcer of colitis, actually six, sorry.

8:47 they can come to you and they can say, "Hey, you know, Joe, would you be willing represent me?" And you can still take on that case >> if they've passed all the Right. >> Exactly. Yeah. It's a little bit higher bar, but yeah, they're not excluded, you know, from coming forward. >> Wonderful news. That's actually really good. And you know, from a business perspective, and this might be a question you know the answer to, might not. It's okay either way. What happens for facilities or companies that have to do their own cleanup now like let's say a landfill or something like that? Are they included in this or is that a separate conversation for a separate potential lawsuit where you know if you're if you're running a facility or that could potentially have a contamination right now and you needed to clean that up or get rid of it. like what what are you what are your options right now?

9:44 >> Yeah. So, not included in this settlement. This settlement is just going to be individual plaintiffs diagnosed with one of those six injuries exposed either by the drinking water or the direct exposure to a 3M product. we talked earlier about the water contamination, the you know $10 billion settlement with 3M earlier. What we're seeing are some of these other property damages claims. So certain entities are coming forward, not a person, but but it could be a company like you're saying, hey, I had to expend these expenses because my property was contaminated, you know, and and there's a path for that. There are maybe dozens, maybe a hundred or so, a low note number compared to this 100,000 plus settlement where people are bringing those claims.

10:41 How successful they're going to be. I I can't necessarily say, you know, there's definitely going to be issues with insurance policies and, you know, being able to prove it. You know what what I think is really good about this settlement and a lot of the other settlements we we talk about on here is like the change being made, right? So like 3M has already stopped, you know, producing POS, right? And and it's not in their products. It's not to say they didn't know about it for 50 years and contaminated a lot. but >> because of the lawsuits, right, and because of the pressure, you know, they changed the product. We saw the same thing happen with right Zantac with talcum powder with Roundup Parakquots off the market. You know they make these changes and so in addition to getting the compensation of the people who are hurt making sure that going in the future nobody else is going to be exposed to it. You know that's that's a huge part. So this settlement is massive, right? 7 billion plus the 10 plus billion and there were a couple other defendants in that other one. You know, this is more than a $20 billion project, you know, that was put together that is helping 100,000 individuals and then communities across the whole entire country. and then helping the future communities, right, by educating everybody and getting the products off the market. So this is, you know, really remarkable work. and and I think that should be recognized as well.

12:21 >> Yeah. I mean, hats off to leadership and everybody and and and even, you know, 3M for coming forward. Now, for Dupant, Keemmers, like all of them, how does that work? Like are are are plaintiffs to expect that you're assigned into 3M and so that's what you're going to get or are the plaintiffs going to have like I don't want to say tanches but here's your 3M settlement here's your key settlement here's your depont like how does that work yeah so how it worked with the prior the water facilities it was there was a separate settlement for each one of the defendants and like you said 3M was over 10 billion The next biggest one was only a billion. So this this is largely a 3M problem. This is a a 3M settlement. So the cases against the other defendants, you know, still exists. They're still going forward. is there going to be a lot of activity over the next year?

13:23 There's not. are going to be in court fighting and focusing on expert reports? We're not. You know, none of that is really coming into play right now. Could there be, you know, in the future smaller settlements with, you know, some of those other players you mentioned? It could be, but those defendants, I think, are much more, you know, focused in hotspots or geographically, you know, located in specific kind of portions of the United States. but this this is going to be the big settlement for these plaintiffs. And I don't want, you know, people thinking, hey, I'm going to get 50,000, 100,000, just throwing numbers out there from 3M. I'm also going to get it from DuPont and this other defendant, too.

14:11 >> That's that's not realistic. there could be something else, you know, that comes, but I wouldn't really be counting on it much at this point. >> Okay, that's really that's really helpful to know. So this is very different than the social media harm or the video game harm like all of those where there's many defendants potentially named again with one plaintiff. This might be similar in some aspects but you're just advising people like hey look don't don't start forecasting this for the future. You know plan on the 3M. The 3M is here.

14:46 It's resolved. This is the predictable one. you guys are all going to do your big fight and hopefully be victorious in holding accountable the other manufacturers of of the POS Forever Chemical. But for now, big win. Celebrate the big win. And this is going to take I know there's some numbers thrown around where it might be different. Let's let's just call it nine years. So, people should brace for that too. Is that something that is accurate? Like for if you're a plaintiff right now, should you be like, "Okay, I'm probably going to get my payment."

15:23 but it might take me a a little bit. Yeah, just generally, you know, mass torch settlements take a lot of time. Settlements with the 100,000 people take a lot of time, right? Each case has to get individually evaluated. It has to get put forward by the plif. You know, there's going to be documents, multiple documents that need to be signed. There could be, you know, deceased plaintiffs. We need to have an estate. We need to have the proper party. There could be prior bankruptcies. Everything has to get approved by the special master and ultimately the defendants. so there's not going to be any payments to the plaintiffs in 26, none in 27.

16:07 there could be some in 28. Generally my rule of thumb is in a mass tor settlement you won't receive a a payment actual funds until at least a year and a half from the time of the settlement. So here we are towards the end of 26 I could see the second half of 28 you know people starting to see some funds. but it's going to be on a rolling basis. it it's it's just not economically feasible for these companies to pay $7 billion upfront. So, they're not going to do it.

16:43 They're going to make payments on a on a rolling basis. we we saw the same thing going on in Bard Hern, you know, a billion dollar settlement, but they didn't give us a billion dollars at once. once we meet certain requirements in terms of you know releases signed and proof then they'll make payments for a trunch of cases. So it's going to be paid out over a number of years. it's going to take time. My hope is in 2028 some of the clients start receiving funds and then you know we'll have a good run through 28 29 30 and and that's when we would expect you know the majority of the clients to to see payments.

17:29 >> Love that. Thank you so much for that. What's next Joe? What's I mean in your in your crystal ball prediction what's the next mass tort to finally be able to resolve? Yeah, there there's two there's two of them out there right now. It's hair relaxer and it's social media addiction and maybe a third even the video game addiction. So I I didn't think, you know, this was 3M was going to settle this year. I didn't have it on my bingo card. I thought it was a next year settlement. but yeah, social media and hair relaxer, that's the ones everybody's watching right now. Do do you think we get either of them before the end of 26 or that's a 27 surprise?

18:13 >> I would love I would love a hair relaxer resolution by 26. the the social media I if I had to bet if I I mean I obviously we want everybody to resolve tomorrow, right? I would love to see Bard Powerport resolved tomorrow, all these different places. But I if if you had to ask me, I would say social media is probably a next year thing. hair relaxer, man. I would love to see it by December, but it might be a might be next year as well. I don't know. But I mean I do see it on my end, you know, cuz I'm helping people with marketing and and funding and a lot of funders are looking at, you know, the same thing you're saying, hair relaxer. Let's let's get let's get all those plaintiffs, all those claimants, all those people, all those women especially who have uterine cancer and and different types of cancers and different things. Let's get them signed up. let's get them filed so that if if there is a resolution, we're not like scrambling, right? I think that's the big thing. And so I do see a lot of law firms making a a big Q4 kind of push and they're not really doing it because of anything nefarious. They're doing it because you never know when these resolutions come out. Like you said, 3M, right? Revlon or L'Oreal might say, "Hey, look, you know what? We need to get this off our books. Let's resolve it. let's stop it now. We'll take accountability. We're going to resolve this now. And then you don't want to be scrambling to file your your claim late. Right. And so I do see a lot of people in hair relaxer Q4. I think you're absolutely right. Social media boy, it's it's one of the most interesting lawsuits right now because people are advertising on social media about the social media harm lawsuit.

20:06 lots of people impacted. I I would not be surprised if you start seeing some of the manufacturer the manufacturers some of the platforms starting to resolve like I think Tik Tok should resolve very quickly. I would love to see Snapchat resolve Google and Meta. We'll see. I mean I I do it does look like Meta is starting to turn a corner. They're doing really well with Muse and I don't know if Zuckerberg wants to be called to the stand ever again. I mean that was not a good experience for him. And then Google, man. Like, get this off your books. Get this out of here. I I think you just take accountability.

20:43 educate the market into what happened and move forward. Like, put the disclaimers up there. Put the systems in place to protect the children and let's just move forward. I think that's the that's my that's my two cents. >> Yeah. I I I I I I'm with you. I I think hair relaxer comes first, but with social media there there won't be another social media trial. Like Zuckerberg, he's not going up on the stand. It's not happening. So, you know, they're settling those cases one off.

21:15 >> You know, we we'll see if there's a larger, you know, settlement this year. It would be great. But I I was hoping, you know, 6 months ago we'd have a hair relaxer one by the end of the year. I'm I'm still going to hold out hope maybe for the next 45 days. if not I'm sure we'll get it in 27. So, you know, good news on the the AF, the PAS, that was a huge one. You know, one of the biggest cases of our lifetime.

21:44 So, a lot of good work done by that. And you you know, talked about leadership. I know Paul Napoli, you know, he was instrumental. He was all over this case for more than a decade working on it. you know, Michael London, Hunter, a lot of those guys did great work. There's many more on the leadership team, but, that that's kind of what struck me today, actually. >> Yeah. I mean, their legacy and their their their work is is paying off, and you're going to see echoes of that in in microlastics and and other other ways of cleaning up the environment for years to come. And so, it's it's a beautiful thing. I would love to also see more information and and more, you know, quick resolution when it comes to some of the other projects that are out there, like video game addiction, like you're saying, like that's been a battle for a long time. a lot of people can really use that help. I would love to see that come in by end of the year. I that would be really really really great. you know, we'll >> another >> even Yeah. Well, I hope that's the model going forward, right? The the rocket dock and depo, you know, getting that resolved. But I I hope another one we could see is, you know, is there going to be a tier one Camp Lun settlement?

23:08 >> Oh, yeah. that would be nice as well. You know, the defendants really kind of dug in their their position the last couple months. I was surprised by that. We had the one kidney cancer trial that wrapped up already. We have the second one starting. They're bench trials, so it's a little bit different, but I I I think that's another one we we can get. So, I don't think it'll be a global, unfortunately. It's it's going to be tears at a time and and so we'll follow those through.

23:40 >> On the heels of the midterms, I think that, you know, it doesn't matter whether you're purple, blue, red, if you can contact your senators or, you know, any sort of lobbying in DC. I do think that the DOJ can move a little bit faster on some of this stuff, too. And maybe we can get this resolved a little bit quicker if we can raise more awareness. I mean this was a huge huge push on every social media platform, television platform, radio platform years ago. But I think the silence that has happened recently is making this move glacially. And these are these are families and these are veterans veterans who you know they were hurt and they were harmed and they weren't harmed in combat. They were harmed from a contamination.

24:31 And so, you know, there's the science is there. It's not like we're proving the science like the lawsuit's pretty much done. It's just now, you know, going through that process like Joe, you were saying before with BAS, like going through the claims and making sure you you you able to distribute funds, for the for the awards of the settlement. And I I think the next play for people and again I'm just a guy from Jersey, but it's to it's to try and get your your local politicians and your and your politicians and the president and everybody just eyes on this and saying, "Hey, this is a big win, a quick win for veterans and it'll make everyone look good.

25:12 >> I mean, there's it's a win-win for everyone. If you make this go quicker, >> you know, everyone's going to be on your side. So Donald Trump, if you're watching, you know, make this go faster. That would be great. Yeah. No, you you said it. Reach out to anybody you can to push that. But, you know, those are the the three or four that we're following. I'm sure we'll keep everybody updated and hopefully we have another one of these special productions here announcing a big settlement. Amazing. And so, Joe, before before we get going here, are there any new projects or tors out there?

25:51 we call them projects affectionately. It's it's things that you focus on. We're still helping real people, communities. I've seen Air Tag. I've seen a lot of different Apple Air Tag, right? I've seen a lot of different lawsuits that are popping up. Is anything have your eye at the moment? Are you in a holding pattern? >> Yeah, I I think the two new ones that that are going to fall into that bucket are going to be Apple Air Tag, right?

26:17 and then also the spinal cord, right? I I think we have the three MDLs formed. You know, we're we're waiting for the state court plays to pop up. We're in that initial sixmonth period where we're feeling each side out. You know, getting all the orders in place, but there'll be a lot of momentum in both of those cases next year. And, you know, outlier is like Tylenol, right? So, we came back, we we got that overturned.

26:48 Then the defendants requested a re reharing from the second circuit that was denied. And last month there there was the a few dozen new Tylenol cases filed. So that's that's another one to watch. It's not necessarily new. but I but I think it could come fresh, you know, next year. So those are the the three new ones that we'll be following next year and I'm sure for many years going forward, >> especially Tylenol, that's very interesting with the with the ADHD and autism with acetaminophen. Ashley Keller had a had a great you know argument for it and and you know I know the president mentioned it a couple of times with with Kennedy and so I wonder if that's going to carry a lot of momentum. I think there was like almost like 28 new filings in the last recent weeks. And so I think you're absolutely right. That's that's an area where I've been interested to see where it plays out. yeah, we'll keep an eye on that. any final thoughts before we wrap up and and say goodbye until next time?

27:57 >> no, just always good getting together and especially, you know, enjoy talking when we have these huge settlements coming out. So, thanks for having me and I look forward to talking to everybody at the next one. >> Good news, Joe. Joe is our favorite Mastor lawyer. Thank you so much for being on and look forward to hopefully next week or or very soon. >> All right, take care. >> Take care everybody. Thank you.