Robert Glazer Exposes My Deepest Beliefs

0:01 So, the most interesting thing will run this experiment with you. Sure. One of the greatest test of a value for me and I had this hysterical epiphany break out on a different interview last week, which I'll explain if we have time, but the anti-value test is so interesting for people cuz the violation of a value should be like physically annoying or uncomfortable. So, I I asked this guy I asked you same too. So, what is What is the sort of a question? What is something about a person or a behavior or whatever that drives you absolutely crazy? Me? Yeah.

0:32 Um I can This is This one's pretty easy. I'm sure you're picturing probably an actual story in your Well, and I and I and I rag on my older son for this the most, but I get it but everybody here knows it. I mean at at some level you could say like low conscientiousness. Like not paying attention to the details. Yeah. Like if I ask I say, "Please clean the Please clean the kitchen." And I come back and the pot is still sitting there on the range.

0:59 It just I just It drives me absolutely crazy. It drives me crazy. If there's execution stuff on video and it's like there's errors. And it's not like I fly off the handle on this stuff, but if it's repeated it's like This isn't working. Like doing things right. Like do it the right If you're going to do it, do it the right way. Don't half-ass it. Half-assing stuff drives me up a wall. So, is it There's There's a bunch in there, but see how your your your physiology as you got to the end of that got That is And then you said half-assed it and you're like, you know, really locked in there. So, So, So, if you think about what it is it about someone doing it correctly? Is it about listening? Is it about the conscientiousness? Which one of those sort of tracks was the more of, you know, sort of track? Like what was the most cuz you said it you said a few different things in there. I mean >> Is it sort of like if you're going to do it, do it well? I think it's like it's um Yeah, let me think about this for a second.

2:02 I'm half >> Half-assing it was your closest emotion there. >> Yeah, I mean I guess what I would say is this. I'm very tolerant of somebody making mistakes. A mistake is when you try and you get it wrong, but you were trying and you were putting in the effort. When you simply didn't do the do it Yeah. and it looks like it's just failing to put in the effort necessary to complete the job correctly. It It's It feels fundamentally disrespectful. It's like you don't care enough about this to do it right. You're You're It's It's It's a There's a bunch of >> It's about doing it right or is it not even trying? Cuz it's an interesting And then look the the we may be tapping into two different values, but >> It just It points towards for me it points towards a bunch of a bunch of stuff that's But it is It is commitment. Yeah. It's commitment to Lack of effort is is is your kryptonite.

3:01 I just can't It's like And some people are like It It just depends. It depends on what it is, but fundamentally like If you got to clean your room, I want to see that room is really clean. Yeah. And then if it's repeatedly not clean then it's like this Why won't you do Like I I kind of take it personally. Is it sort of like if you're going to do it, do it well? Is that the the the the value?

3:30 >> actually we did this exercise because Mateo's school acting had us do these family things. So, you're Bill Belichick like do your job. Yeah, it was like the the Our family slogan was the Papola family does things right. And the doing them right >> Yeah. Some people say, "Oh, we do hard things." It's like no, I want it done right. All right. So, so it's funny. So, you probably are right way Y person, which is similar to my wife and that uh generally people with that orientation they they you cannot get them to accept anything that they don't believe is right. They're willing to change their mind, but you cannot force that onto it. They have to believe it is the right thing or they're inherently uncomfortable.

4:12 Um so Now, I'll ask you I'll test this. So, all right, think back like childhood, growing up, or whatever. Is this a four or against thing? Like is this like was someone Did someone Oh, this is four. So, my dad is a surgeon. And my dad lives this value of doing things right and raised me in it. He soaked me in it. >> Yeah. I'm like for ex- you know, so as a surgeon and a good one um and I say good one because like anytime a patient would approach us throughout my growing up he just He You know, he's an ear, nose, and throat surgeon. He He was constantly getting approached by grateful patients. So, that's one of the ways I knew. And he has great bedside manner.

4:58 Um But here's perfect example. The way my dad said to study is read the first chapter, then read the first and second, then read the first, second, and third, then read the first, second, third, fourth. He's the He is like conscientiousness incarnate. He's more conscientious than anyone I know including myself. But I love my dad. He's my hero. And so he is the do it right. He is the Okay, we're going to do this. When he gives instructions for how to go somewhere, he tells you which lane to be in at what time. That's good That's good self-awareness. And And again, if you if you're leading in the workplace and you understand that that's a value, what you'd want to do is go to your team like, "Look, it's really important to me that things are right. So, if you if you are unsure or you need more information, I would rather you ask me than not ask me." Like I generally think that the moral thing to do is the better thing to do. This is When it took So, so here's one I've seen a lot. People who have a real core value of trust. Uh it is almost 99% a a negative against thing.

6:06 And here's the test cuz you'll say to someone, "Well, I'm hearing a real strong theme of trust here. Let me ask you. If you break someone's trust If someone breaks your trust, does it matter what they did or whatever or they did to you? And you know, some people will be like, "Well, it's mad." And these people are like dead to me. Like Like bam. Like dead and gone. So, I'll say, "Look, I don't know what it is. I don't I'm not going to ask what it is, but did you have a violation of trust that's pretty significant during your childhood?" And usually there's a tear or an ashen face or something like Okay, so just understand this is probably how your friend group works. There's a tight group and you know, it's hard to get in and you've had them for a really long time and no one gets in. You know, your spouse by the way they cheat on you and you're they're never recovering. Like you know, let's be clear on that and and in the partner thing.

6:53 But man, in the workplace huge difference if you know this and don't know this. So, I work with some people who who I found out this after the fact. And so, how do they operate in the workplace? They just organize people into can be trusted or not be trusted. The people have no idea about this and it's arbitrary. So, you're 5 minutes late to a meeting, you kind of can't be found in the afternoon, and you miss a deadline, and you're like in jail with a key thrown out with this person. And if they don't know it, they can't communicate it. And so, what our leaders have constantly done after figuring out this stuff, they go back to their team and they're like, "John, just so you know, like trust is super important to me as you join my team. Like I I It's Once it's broken, it's very hard to get back.

7:35 Here are the ways that it's lost. If I feel distant or you are feeling distant from me, it's probably because there's been a break of trust and we should come and have, you know, a discussion." I have just seen the leaders for whom it's so dominant in their leadership style, but they're so unaware of it that it's an Achilles' heel versus they're like, "Look, this is me. Here's my playbook. You should be telling everyone like I'm very clear on I say it in a different way cuz it mine's more better. Yours I go, "I I have an opinion on everything.

8:05 So, you're asking me about red versus black t-shirts for the I'm going to tell you my opinion. If you don't need my input on the color of the shirt, don't ask me." Like you know, that's how you learn to not drive people crazy around it. >> Yeah. I even at home on the um because of the if you're going to I think this is a generic male-female thing, which is if you ask a man in general on average anything, we want to solve the problem.

8:32 >> solving versus listening. Yeah. So, and I'm bad at this and and I still do it. And so, when my when my wife, who we also work together and always have brings something up I have It's like, "Do you want me to engage or not?" Cuz if not, I would rather you not even just just do it and don't even tell me about it. Well, someone just told me recently they said they've learned the line to say say, "Are you looking for solutions or you looking for me just to listen?" That that was a good And I'm like we all know we should say that, but we don't. Okay, what else you got?

9:02 You got some other question other other interrogation of my values that can help me understand your frame. >> what's Let's see if we can get to a different one. Uh what's something There's another question. What What do people come to you for for advice regularly or help? Mhm. Their personal problems. And And why do they come to you? What are they hoping that that you'll be Why do they come to you and not someone else?

9:36 I mean this might even sound different or inca- to someone, but I like I I'm at I try to listen and I try to actually figure out what's the true thing that's best for them. Right. I think. That's what I That's what I try to do. It that that's been this way for forever. Like when I was a manager at at Viacom I I was often put in the role of having to like adjudicate the the challenging case.

10:02 And it was like I think it is connected actually as I think about this now. It is kind of connected to the doing things right because >> Well, I was going to say that could be the it could be so dominant. Yeah. Because the truth I'm a deeply deeply ideological person. I really am. Yeah. And I want to know that my beliefs are true. Yeah, or right. Right. Like this is true. Yeah. And like false, I don't like. So true, I want to know. And I'm willing to hear out if I'm wrong. And and I I will switch. I just remember I just said that to you 2 minutes ago. I go, right people can will change what they believe is right, but only on their own terms, not if you try to force them into it. It it it it doesn't work.

10:49 >> But I think like if someone comes to me and they're struggling with something I will go into a kind of Socratic and like like investigation. Okay, well, what is this? Is it that? What's going on? How Have you Have you tried this? Have you tried that? Like I don't bring my own stuff to it. I just go into like investigator mode and that does seem to be helpful to people. >> Yeah, it's funny. I I I think there's something about about um listening for you or hearing or whatever because obviously even the business that you're in or people's stories. Like I I think that's actually why people come to you is almost this combination of both of those. Like You might I guess that people that don't listen probably really frustrate you.

11:31 I always say like before people answer me when I do that, their face answers me. They just get There's a physiological, you know, reaction. So that's like those probably work a lot in in in tandem, you know, to you. People A, you're a good listener. B, you're good at sorting through the facts and and kind of what's right. So if I Now I started playing around with this, I'd be okay, how would you like a job where everyone's yelling, no one listens to anyone, you can't make any decisions, right? It would You can spend all day playing with the avatar.

12:03 So back to I was saying interestingly like I'll do this. So I once I figure out someone's four values, if I'm feeling creative enough, I will create an avatar that's the opposite of all of it or a job and I'm like tell me like what is that? And they're like like just just this like revolting face look of like that sounds just horrible. Like I would Why would I want to talk to that person or have that job? What was interesting was this host was I was like, tell me a story about someone you can't stand. And he tells me a super specific story like it was yesterday.

12:32 And I was like, huh. And he was a little dubious. He's a you know, a little you know, you know, high intellect guy who wants proof and data on things. And I was like definitely there's a core value in there. And as we unpacked it, listening, credibility, and humility were not those one words, but they were basically as core value. And and that the credibility thing just he just kept you know, that your credibility is important. I'm like, all right, tell me like where does that come from? He's like, well, I like of course that's family stuff. Like you know. So I we didn't get more into it, but I think there was probably a dad who said a lot of things in a real credible way The strong strong voice of authority.

13:15 >> And this kid is known him now as brilliant. And as he got older, he realized those things were not true. And those things were not Those things were not backed by fact, but they were said in such an authoritative bullying way that they were to be accepted as truth. So now he is very distrustful >> I am treating other people with like they don't matter or they like they're below you or like they're not a person. Like they're not a person of equal dignity is pretty much an almost instantly fireable offense for me.

13:57 >> Yeah, so elitism is not a not a big thing with you. It's but it's not even about I mean it can manifest as as being an elitist but just Your value is probably no one's better than anyone or something like that, right? >> It's that I I have a strong sense of equality in that way. And I think the funny thing I think now that I'm thinking about it um you know, my dad is a surgeon, but he's a South Philly guy that like I like like one of the things when I think about my dad and stuff I did growing up, it was like crawling under the crawl space, getting covered in pink panther insulation, which is itchy and horrible That takes years off your life with that. It's like but that sense of like >> Nothing's beneath you.

14:42 >> No. And like you know, and >> No or yes? You mean yes. Nothing's beneath you. Yeah. I have I I I take almost pride in like I'll No, I'll get under there and fix that myself. Yeah. In fact, I'll do it just so that you all can see that that nothing's believe beneath any of us. And if you act like things are beneath you or if you treat other people as if they are beneath you, it is like a violation that can't really be >> at this. In in in in how many minutes we're we're circled around three of these pretty strongly, right? And again, you're going to think about them. So if I thought about your work environment, there's going to be a lot of listening, there's going to be a lot of debate about what's right, and there's going to be a lot of not hierarchy, you know, and and that and flat organizations. And it's and I think the thing is it's like it's it's um Yeah, it is it It all You know, it's Dad Saves America. It all comes back to your relationship with your dad.

15:36 >> It is it is all childhood stuff. But yeah, these these things are these things are they're deep. >> I'll I'll give you one other story along these lines, which is, you know, we built a we we built a house and we were renting down the street. I would go to the site. It's like right around the corner. And and we I go to the site every day. I love the guys the the Vice brothers. So if you're looking for a house in Austin, hire the Vice brothers.

16:00 They're two carpenters, really quality work. And one of these days the guys are talking and he's and they say, you know, they were on a job site and it's not the first time they've heard things like this. But the their client, the guy that was hire had hired them to build the house said to his son in earshot of them you know, you got to work hard, you got to do well in school because you don't want to end up swinging a hammer for the rest of your life.

16:28 And even saying that I can feel myself like filling with a kind of rage. >> You're giving us a video of what it looks like when your core value is violated. >> It's like how dare you say that in front of him? >> See, but here's what I would argue. Maybe you walk away with a new found thing in life. There's a big difference maybe now that you can put some word on this and be like, that's why it's driving me crazy or that person I need to fire because they like I think most we operate with gut around it. When you actually can put some names on these, it's kind of like it makes it a lot easier.

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