Transcript
0:18 Hello. Welcome back to the Prestige TV podcast feed. I'm Jo Robinson. >> I'm Rob Mahoney. >> And we're here with episode three of Cape Fear by guys, guess what? Popular demands. >> Yeah. truly >> genuinely popular demand. >> what did they know that we didn't? >> Well, they they told us something that we came to on our own. Okay. >> Which is that we need to really kind of lean in to this particular brand of Apple TV show, >> which is I'm calling it Trash Peace Theater.
0:48 >> Bravo. >> You can call it whatever you want. We got some suggestions sent to us, but like when we did Presumed Innocent and we talked about this a little bit, like maybe we would have we would have enjoyed our coverage of disclaimer even more if we had just leaned into this particular brand of Apple programming, which is just sort of absolutely insane, kind of pulpy, often campy, dare I say, sometimes bad shows exist and they've cast incredible actors and sometimes it's great and sometimes it's terrible and you just have to take get all together and wrap your arms around it.
1:22 And it's summer time. >> Yes. >> I might be wearing a sweater, but it is warm and warm and sweltering outside in Los Angeles, California. So like >> it it reminds me of like true watching True Blood on HBO during the summer in just a call. You're just like, "Let's do it. >> We know why we're here." I think that was some of the difference with Disclaimer, which yes, we might have enjoyed it more all the way through if we knew that's what it was from the jump. I don't know that Kevin Klein knew that. I don't know that Cape Blanchett knew that. True. Presumed innocent and Cape Fear. I feel like they have a good feel for how sweaty and like low-key trashy the source material is.
1:54 >> So, we will be covering this for for the foreseeable week to week. That is the plan. Rob, can you remind folks where they can email us if they have questions, comments, or concerns? >> Always at prestige TV@spotify.com, but especially for Capefar. >> Think of a baby carrotgmail.com. I don't like saying it. I don't like thinking it, but you must type it into your browser to email us. you cannot type toe in a jar@gmail.com. It will not get to us. No.
2:20 >> Think of a baby carrot atgmail.com. >> You must think of a baby carrot first to even get the toe in the jar. >> Correct. Correct. all right. So, this is episode three of the show Phantom Sensation. Speaking of, I guess, missing toes. written by Alan Paige Ariyaga and directed by Amanda Marcellis who among many other things has a long storyried TV directing career but did five episodes of the pit kind of recently so there's that nice >> we didn't mention Morton Tildum who's like who I know from an infamous Oscar season but anyway director of the Imitation Game directed the the premiere and head hunters which is an incredible movie and then SH SJ Clarkson who's a great TV director, directed episode 2. Reed Morano, who is an incredible TV director, is directing episode 4. So, they got great directors to shoot these dead skunks and backyard panthers and you know, Counter Hopping Cats and all the other things that are in the show.
3:21 >> I mean, I think there's a lot of fun you can have with it as a director. The the like playing they're doing with color, with mood, with tone, with you know, even just getting the moments of levity from like Javier Bardm getting to cut up a little bit. How can you not have fun directing an episode like this? >> We've got a couple emails. We'll get to those. But before we do any of that, yeah, >> we want to start with the thing that happens in episode three that made both of us go, "Oh, holy shit."
3:44 >> That's the show we're watching, >> right? I texted you. I didn't tell you what it was. And then I was worried that I had overplayed it when I texted it to you, but then you watched it and you texted me and you said, "Holy shit." >> I did. >> What happened, Rob? >> Well, let's let's back up even further than that. First of all, you and I try to rarely or sparsely talk about these episodes before we podcast. We're trying to save the material for this conversation.
4:09 >> Your outsized reaction to this episode, >> out of character, unusual, and I I can understand the the temptation of like, oh, did I overplay that? So then I start watching the episode. I'm locked in. I'm like, yeah, >> all right. I know Joe loves Ethan Embry, but this could not have been about Ethan Embry, right? >> I did have a Oh my god, it's Ethan Embry, but I never I never would have texted you about that.
4:28 >> Pleasantly surprised to see him. I was like, "It can't be that." >> No. >> Francesca Scorsesei, could it be her? I was like, it simply could not be. >> Right. >> Sure enough, by the end of the episode, Juliet Lewis is here. >> Yes. >> I have many questions. I'm sure we can get into some of the theories. I have no idea what to do with any of this. It is great and it's silly and I love it.
4:47 >> It's very exciting. Juliet Lewis, who we mentioned, is like I mean, Dairo, but like Juliet Lewis is like the original the '90s Capefar movie. She's incredible in it. She was Oscar nominated for it. So, here she is. And we should say this is a Capefare tradition because Gregory Peek and Robert Mitchum who were in the 1960s movie show up in the 1990s movie. So they got the two leads of the 1960s movie to show up. So I was going back through I told you this. I was going back through like junket interviews that the cast gave. And this is the the thing that Amy Adams said that both Patrick Wilson and Javier Berdam were like well said.
5:20 >> She said there are cameos from the genre >> throughout the show. So be on the lookout. >> Yeah. >> So by from the genre, does she mean from the Capefare universe? Like >> from the Cape Sphere? >> Is is is Jessica Lang showing up? Did we get did Scorsese get Dairo? He got his daughter in here on on a on a cell phone is like is Dairo going to show up later this season? The fact that they kept Juliet Lewis under wraps >> is astonishing to me. And you were saying like you didn't watch Yellow Jackets. So this is like you haven't seen Juliet Lewis in a while >> in a new thing in a long time.
5:58 >> It's not like new. Yeah. Because for people watch Yellow Jackets or people watch the Tony's on the Sunday. She was up there on stage cuz she's in the Rocky Horror Picture Show on Broadway right now. But you know Julia Lewis has been around but like to have her show up here >> is just so fun. And she gives like a great deranged Juliet Lewis performance. I had a really fun time because I thought I was 10 steps ahead of the show, but the show was 10 steps ahead of me because I was like, "Oh, they have to hide her face because those characters know her." No, they hit her face because we know her. It's Juliet Lewis.
6:31 >> My mind was genuinely blown by this. I think it's it was so exciting. Yeah, >> because Yeah. It blows open the possibility of what kind of story this is, who could appear in it. >> Yeah. I mean, I'm not taking off the table the idea that this is a weird postmodern cape fear and witches. This is literally the same little Bowden girl who has now grown up into a recursive cyclone of terror and fear that she is now participating in in a psychologically damaging and hypnotic capacity.
6:57 >> I love that. to go back really quickly to the Amy Adams from the genre story line, >> I was wondering if she meant like cuz Ted Lavine, who obviously was in Sons of the Lambs, has already shown up here. So maybe she means of these sort of like '9s horror thriller genre. I see that. So maybe that's I >> Ethan Embry hasn't been in anything like that, but that I can recall. Unless you think of high school parties as >> Kar Lee Wade is a little it's stalkery mildly at at minimum. That's true. justice for Preston admireers.
7:34 >> I don't know. >> I'll fight you. I'll fight you. Email us prestify.com or think of a baby carriage@gmail.com. If there are other actors either from Capefar, so like, yeah, >> is Nick Noly on the table, is Jessica Lang on the table, is Dairo on the table, are there other people here who could show up? >> we know that Ron Pearlman's in the cast. We don't know who he's playing. you know, Buffalo Bill is freaking here. So, like, who else from a 90s sort of horror thriller could show up? I'm curious.
8:03 People have thoughts or >> there's so many options. I What if it's the the broader Fearverse and we get like a Richard Gear and Ed Norton in here somewhere, you know? Like, let's let's just really tie all these things together. Let's create an actual cinematic universe of weird summer slop. >> Mark Wahberg and Reese Witherspoon from the film Fear. >> Can't wait. >> And also Primal Fear and also Cave Fear. I think you've really cracked it.
8:23 >> I think this is it. >> What about Fear Street? Does that count? That might be too far. >> All right. Anyway, point being, Julia Lewis is here. I So, the thing I like about having her here because the way they used Gregory Peek and Robert Mitchum was really fun in the '9s movie because Mitchum was sort of like on the side of law enforcement. Gregory Peek plays this sort of like slimy lawyer who is defending Max Katy. So, they kind of flipped their their moral codes inside of that. So to have Juliet Lewis, who played the teenage girl who was like stalked and tormented by Max Katie, to stalk and torment Max Katie is quite fun.
9:02 >> It is quite fun. And it's also kind of raising the idea, this is a season of television. We got a lot to lot of plot to spin through. We got to go down some dead ends and figure out what's what. But raises the idea that Max Katy is himself a kind of victim. And maybe I think especially with his response to the song, I know we want to get into the dangling of the dog collar, all this stuff, the past trauma, >> the butthole surfers.
9:24 >> What am I if not a butthole surfer? >> I think that Yeah. Well, that's been here from the jump. Like we already had his sort of like was he guilty when he went into prison? I think yes, but we can debate that. >> But the show is kind of like daring you to buy into that. It's like, are you sure you want to believe that this guy is innocent of something or is he just evil enough that even if he's innocent, he's still a bad dude?
9:49 >> Or like, you know, that controversial phrase of like, hurt people, hurt people. Like, did he do this horrible thing, but also was he, you know, he was abused as a child? Because we've seen flashbacks both in episode 2 and now here of him in a cage. Like, his father was a dog trainer. His father seems to have like dog trained him, put a collar on him and put him in a cage to get him to behave. There's also some like weird religious trauma that was associated with that down at Cape Fair River. The reaction that he has to Juliet Lewis singing the butthole surfers feels almost like Pavlovian.
10:23 >> Yeah. Winter soldiery activation. >> Manurian candidatesesque. And so, you know, he like he has to like when he hears the butthole surfers. So it's to me it seems like she has to be someone from his childhood. Someone who knew >> who at least knows that >> knows that he has a trigger a butthole surfer trigger or any or is it any I didn't >> the whole surfer trigger@gmail.com. >> I didn't write this show. Somebody else wrote this show like or is it is it like any any song with the phrase dog collar and it will work or something like that? I don't This seems more specific. As soon as she starts singing it, you can see his reaction that he kind of knows what's coming and knows the effect it's about to have on him >> as he starts screaming into the void and smashing this TV with a fire poker and every bit of it.
11:15 >> Also love like a staticky broken VCR. >> You have to go analog spazzing out Julia Lewis's face as she like cackle sings and also talks at the same time. So good. >> It was fantastic. Yeah. I I mean theories abound. Very exciting that she's here. I'm not I'm still not ruling out that's his quote unquote dead wife with plastic surgery. I plastic surgery exists. So I'm just like keeping it on the >> So you think spoiler alert in a speed raceresque capacity she has undergone extensive plastic surgery?
11:46 >> What if what if Scott Porter and not Matthew Fox persisting? >> It's very true. >> this is the kind of show it feels like we're watching. you know that she could show up with plastic surgery because when she's like heard you got out and and we are primed from the woman who encounters Max Katy eating ice cream in a very disturbing fashion, right? >> Like Railen Gibbons would never eat his ice cream that way. that okay, there's women all over the the shop that are so excited that Max Kitty's out of prison so perhaps they can himself.
12:22 >> Wendy Wilson, the woman in question. >> Sure. So like allegedly that's the name she gives but he's like I don't know Wendy. Do we know each other? I'm not going to do the accent. I'm sorry I started. Okay. So we're primed to think that Juliet Lewis when she knocks on the door of Anna's room is just another one of these like sex craved you know women. But I don't think at all that's what's going on here. And so my question was is she I heard you got out. Is it not so that we can have sex? It's like, sorry, follow me down this rabbit hole. If she if this is his ex, his wife.
12:57 >> Yes. >> Who faked her death to hide her son from him cuz she was afraid he was going to abuse her son or something like that. She finds out she's pregnant. Y >> she doesn't want her son raised by him or whatever. She fakes her death. Blah blah blah. >> She's like, I heard you got out. If he's out, he's like a danger to the son. Like that's why she would be upset that he got out. Do you know what I mean?
13:17 >> Yes. >> Are you following me? >> I'm trying to follow it. I'm going to just say right now. No, no, but here's what here's let me just say one other thing >> is the reason AI slop dead son exists so that when real's son shows up we will know what he looks like. >> What if the whole AI slop son thing is a misdirect though and there it's just an assumption that it was a son to begin with and like Naa is his actual biological daughter or something >> or sex change. Listen, >> anything is on the table.
13:46 >> Everything's on the table. >> This is what I'm saying. I just want to apologize blanket in advance. We are going to be very deranged with this show and you're >> there's no other way to watch it. >> It's gonna become very clear over the course of this podcast the extent of our derangement. >> We do have a fun treat for the end of the podcast for for the video folks. >> So stick around. Come come come with us on video on this journey. I just don't know how else to engage with it if not to follow every one of these rabbit holes.
14:10 >> I think it can only be fun that way. Okay, so listen. a couple emails we got the witch stuff is really intriguing people obviously. we got a several emails about I hesitated to call it voodoo because I don't know enough about that whole culture to just be like, "There's a bowl of pomegranate seeds, it must be voodoo." So, like, >> it's a specific word to use in this context. however, we did get an email from someone from Rio who said that some of Max's tattoos, not the eyes, but some of the patterns that are on his pecs are a voodoo ve symbol, sacred cosmoggrams drawn in the ground in Haitian voodoo and related traditions to represent and invoke specific spirits or deities. So that could be a specific more specific tie to perhaps we don't know. The the problem is is like Javier Bardm is playing a Spanish, you know, half Spanish, half American. So like Voodoo is not associated with the country of Spain. No. So that's why I'm just sort of confused why Voodoo would be here.
15:19 >> He's a man who is of the world. He's a man who has spent time in prison. He could have met any number of voodoo CD characters all over the place. >> We got an email from Marina about this drug called Devil's Breath. Also a South American sort of concept, but there are countless reports of users being coerced into carrying out criminal acts after being spiked with a drug inadvertently under the quote mind control effects of the drug. These victims have been assaulted, con convinced to commit violent crimes, emptied their bank accounts, and even had their organs stolen. So like it has this hallucinogenic property that makes people highly impressionable. This drug, I guess, exists.
16:00 >> So this might be actual witch drugs, >> right? I mean, this is a question I have. I don't know enough about this. I was asking Chris Ryan. I don't I don't know why I thought Chris Ryan would know like what he thinks Patrick Wilson is micro doing. you know, we got we got some emails about this. Our listener Sharon wrote in and said she thought he was micro doing Tom that that Tom was micro doing LSD because micro dosing acid is sometimes treatment for depression but jury's out on whether or not it works. He was using it a bit more recreationally to like for he and Lexi >> just to have a good time >> to unwind. I still don't know exactly what's in there. Do you have any further thoughts on that?
16:39 >> I don't and you asking me just makes it makes you feel like a narc. Like I feel like you're testing me. Yeah, >> you're the Dev called me a nerf yesterday. You people need to stop calling me a nerd. I feel like I've done more drugs than you have. >> You just keep going around being like, "Hey, do you guys know about these drugs?" >> I would just like to know what he's putting on his tongue.
16:57 >> As would I. I think we need we need this question answered. Email I would say me. Don't email Joe. Email me at thinkofabofabcaratgmail.com. >> This is the Bay Area man. You're from Texas. I don't know what to say. >> I don't know. I I grew up in a in a suburb that at one point I believe was called the heroine capital of the world. Look that up. >> Interesting. Okay. we were talking about on the flashback that Patrick Wilson's character Tom has in in episode two. We were trying to examine the posters on the wall to see sort of like when this might be and a bunch of our listeners wrote in to let us know that the you thought you had seen a human poster on sort of the interior of the room, >> but the poster on the outside the door our listeners identified as a talking heads poster from the album Remain in the Light or Remain in Light >> which came out in 1980. He-Man plus talking heads 1980s >> starting to add up. The problem is the talking heads are eternal.
17:51 >> They are. >> So it could be could be anytime. >> Okay. Love the talking heads. Can you not? >> Absolutely. do you have a favorite talking head song? >> I mean, I am basic, so it it is going to be something I've stopped making sense. It's probably just burning down the house. >> Okay. Well, you truly basic would be psycho killer. So, I'll give you burning down. >> Psycho killer like slaps for a reason. You know, it it has it is gone on into history. Yeah.
18:15 >> Welled. >> Sax and violence is my favorite. okay. So, last but not least on the email front, I just loved this email from our listener Brandon who said he's all in for the ride and said, "Will it be too long?" Yes. "Will it be messy?" Absolutely. Will the buttons on Patrick Wilson's shirts finally give out and we see his perfectly sculpted body? Only time will tell. Good news, Brandon. >> It don't. >> Here we are.
18:41 He's lifting weights, he's sweating, and he's shirtless. Okay. on the sort of what what of our current anxieties does this Capefar address? We talked about tech issues and surveillance and that's even more so here when when like the drone Yeah. >> takes footage of Natalie in her own backyard and and going back through those sort of junket interviews that the cast were giving. They were asked about this and they said you know a lot of it has to do with like anxieties of not feeling safe in your own home, of being surveiled inside of your own home.
19:11 Javier Bardm talked a lot about AI slop and and fake news and you can't believe what you see and the way in which Max Kitty might take advantage of you not knowing exactly what is true and what is fake because things are so easily manipulated. and then you know we we've already been I don't mean to sound like a a narc but we've been talking about drugs of plenty. I was wondering like, you know, between both Zach and Natalie like being targeted by the same young alluring drug dealer.
19:43 is this a euphoria generation anxiety? Are we like really worried about all the various drugs, not just like weed or whatever the case may be, but like the entire bag that Naa has at at the diner full of drugs that could could come for your children. Yes. And I think in this case clearly wants an in with this family, right? Like Naa, it feels I guess you could read what she does with Natalie as retribution for Anna confronting her.
20:12 >> A question I had. >> And to be fair, Anna's like, "Here's a couple hundred bucks. Let me tell you about some shelters. you, lady." Like, >> what do you mean, you, lady? >> That feels more than a little presumptuous. >> okay. Well, on the one hand, maybe. On the other hand, I don't. Na does not look like she has a regular place to sleep. To me, >> I I wouldn't presume to know. And certainly if I'm if I'm Amy Adams in this case, I wouldn't presume to say, >> as you and I both know, you got to keep those bangs clean or else they get they get greasy and clumpy. You know, it's an >> occupational hazard.
20:43 >> So, you know, I thought she was maybe she was being nice in like a a rich white lady way. >> She was not being nice. >> She was she thought I think she thought she was being nice. >> I agree. That's the problem. >> Okay, fair. All right, fine. I think you could read what Nvea does as like lashing out at Anna or you could read it as she has some reason to want to be in the Bowden household and this one road has dried up and now she's going to go this other way instead.
21:07 >> We got some emails skip ahead if you don't want to know anything from the trailer. just nothing major. But we got some emails from people asking if she was perhaps Max Katie's daughter because there is >> So in this episode when she feeds the drug to Natalie, that's the classic Max Katy Juliet Lewis creepy MTV kiss moment. >> Yeah. >> In the trailer, she's seen laughing loudly inside of a movie theater, which is another classic Max Katy move from the '9s, the Dairo film. So, like she is in many ways playing out some of Max Katie's greatest hits. So, is she doing so because she's associated with him?
21:43 >> Is this coincidental? What's going on? >> Is this yet another head fake? >> We don't know. Is she Is she also Max Katie's daughter? I don't know. I have I have I feel like we would know. I don't know. I lied. We do have one more email and it feeds into this sort of matching of Javier Bardam and Amy Adams that we talked about a little bit last week because we were we were mentioning the blue eyes on Javier Bardm >> and one of our listeners was like are they both blue or is it just the one on the left side the same side he was hit and Javier Bardm did say in an interview that the eyes are meant to sort of reflect the brain damage so one is lighter because of that but they do match Amy Adams eyes they also have put some red in his hair and his beard beard that is not usually there. Not he's not like ginger ginger like Amy Adams is, but there's a little auburn sort of in his hair and his beard.
22:32 >> And then >> what what do you take from that from a color through your perspective? Ging ginger evil. >> It's not. No, I love and support ginger. >> Just wondering. >> It's a we're not so different, you and I. >> Got you. >> And that's further underlined by my favorite detail in this episode, which is that Amy Adams and Javier Vardm are wearing the exact same blue linen button-down shirt in different parts of the episode. This was an insane pull by you.
22:56 >> I don't know. >> Insane. Good. Like I cuz I think that the ways in which you see them and it's Anna early in the episode when she's at her house >> going through Zach's cloned phone and all that and then later in the episode on the road trip we see Max have >> I mean what literally could be the same shirt. >> It's I think it's the exact same shirt. >> You think he grabbed So theory?
23:15 >> Sorry. No, I just think it's the same same cut, same fabric, same store. >> I'm going to put three theories on the table. One, they both shop at LLBAN. >> Two, he literally grabbed this shirt when he was at their house. Three, when they were hypothetically allegedly shacking up, they bought his and hers matching shirts. >> and he like kept it when he was in prison, he was just sort of like, I got to come back.
23:39 >> Him showing up for the road trip wearing the shirts like this is me meeting you halfway. >> Like two halves of the best friend necklace, I think. So, and he's like, be fry. And she's like, Estend great. when she walked in and saw him in the kitchen >> and she's like, "What are you doing in my kitchen?" I expected her to say, "And wearing my shirt." They look very different on them because they have different like bodies, but it's the same shirt.
24:01 >> And so, I do think that like the blue in the eye, the red in the hair, and the same shirt. And then just sort of like >> their appreciation of each other inside of this episode, you know, like when she is doing her stuff in the boardroom, >> and he's like, "You're a pit bull." And we know how he feels about dogs. He's like, "This is the highest compliment I could pay someone. You remind me of a dog." he's admiring her. They're, you know, they're having this like laughing over Tabitha, you know, her sex noises with Dusty the cameraman, etc., etc.
24:31 >> Even earlier in the episode at the gas station. Oh, yeah. Right. Where he's kind of tormenting Tabitha a little bit, and Anna shows up and like the headshake and smile. >> Oh, you, Max. >> Super familiar, but also like Anna, you're a little up. Like, >> well, that's what I'm saying. She's They're not so different. >> They're really not. >> And I will say I I believe very firmly at the end of the episode when Tom and Anna are having sex, he's thinking about Lexi from work. And I think she's thinking about Max Kate. I think she came home horny.
25:02 >> Yeah. >> And he was already horned up because he and Lexi were micro doing together and cuddling on the couch. >> She was. But he was also like, "Let me let me tell you about work." Like you you've been on a road trip with potentially the devil and let let's talk about like prenups. No, but I think he was horn I think he was horned up but but he was like really his like sort of like really or some whatever he said >> seemed to me that like they don't have sex that often. Yeah. So when she's like >> initiating with him he's like he's like oh oh we're doing this? I thought we didn't really do this much anymore. It's not a Thursday. Like what are we doing?
25:33 You know what I mean? So >> it's not the shared cow, you so yeah, I just think that there, you know, and and to go back to the the show art for this, it's her face blurred into his face. So, you know, I think if the first two iterations of adopting the book were about you know, perfect good versus perfect evil, Gregory Peek versus Robert Mitchum, and then >> flawed good Nick Noly versus evil Robert Dairo. And now it's just sort of like >> we're both sympathetic in a way. if if if this Max Kitty was tormented as a child, >> he's got this head injury, all this other stuff, and then like >> she had a horrible childhood and and she was like, you know, she she spoke in very vague terms when they were have sharing some coffee or whatever about her state of mind when she was representing him at the at the trial.
26:33 >> The trial broke her, but not a lot of detail as to how and why, what happened, >> you know. So, like, you know, and he's like, "We shared interest." Was it weird voodoo drugs? I don't know. Was it just alcohol? Who's to say? But she, you know, got sober after that. So, >> it was a wakeup call in some way. >> Yeah. So, I I think that's what's going on with matching shirts to to to put a button on it.
26:56 >> I love the matching shirts. Can I raise one other thing in the air with this adaptation that is new, >> please, Rob? I think particularly with the Wendy Wilson character, okay, this idea of like we are engaging with the true crime phenomenon overlaid this man who's been released from prison and we see Anna wield that in the negotiation. >> Also, very tastefully, I would say the episode mentioning like, oh, it could be HBO or Netflix and not Apple TV.
27:18 >> Apple doesn't really do true. >> They really don't. So, they're staying in their lane with the Trash Peace Theater. I appreciate it. but this this woman who just like basically stalks Max Katie to the ice cream stand, coincidentially shows up in like her nice dress and wants to talk to him >> and like her first question is, "Do you think your mistress Amy actually killed your wife?" Just one of the most inhuman things that a true crimerained person might actually ask someone like him.
27:44 >> Like it it became very clear at the end that she just wanted to like >> jump his bones go to Kfair River with him. have have a nice briny. >> She thought she wanted ice cream licked off her face, but she did not want ice cream licked off her face. >> I like that. but at first I was like, "Oh, is this another podcaster?" You know what I mean? They're just everywhere. They're in all the bushes. You know, like >> I got bad news. They are everywhere.
28:07 >> but yeah, we've already seen a true crime podcaster. yeah, Tabitha, the journalist who's trying to make this true crime documentary. That's a great point. the celebrity and the sort of >> you know this has existed for a a while but like even more so now this sort of >> f vanish fascination with these murderers and or alleged murders >> I think especially when you think about what that could do for a story like this we don't know >> how true a version of Max Katy this will be to the previous iterations maybe this guy is just kind of in the wrong place at the wrong time and constantly being misunderstood Right.
28:46 >> But if he is a stalker, now you have the question of like who stalks the stalkers, right? The podcasters, the true crime obsessives, like >> the Juliet Lewis, >> the Julia, but like someone like Wendy could conceivably see Max commit a crime, right? Could be in she could be in the wrong place at the wrong time if she's following him around or someone like her is. >> Oh, yeah. Great point. All right, so let's start at the beginning of the episode.
29:09 >> It's a little late for it, but let's just circle back. >> Too bad. patron sate of US podcasting. Margarita Lviva is here. >> this is her CV off the dome of late. she was in task memorably. >> Spoilers died. >> she's in Daredevil Born Again. >> Certainly was. >> spoiler became a killer. >> Also spoiler choked came. >> Choked and came and conquered. She's the acolyte. >> Yep. she's just been around a lot of shows that I've been covering.
29:42 >> She's getting work. And guess what? All like different networks, different production companies. It's not like she's gotten into the Apple TV silo and she's just popping around. >> Disney, Disney, HBO, Apple, all over the place. >> Oh, great. So, Lviva's here. >> Viva Lviva. She is here >> as Lexi. >> Yeah. >> a senior associate, not a parallegal. I'll have you know who is clearly in in a role that's familiar to the story of somebody that that Tom works with. Yes.
30:08 >> Who he is >> on the brink of having an affair with does does smooch inside of this episode. I was excited to see her. We knew she was in the cast. We didn't know who she was playing and she shows up on the Zoom and I was like we're doing Leviva. Here she is. what do you think of this Lexi Top stuff? I mean, up top we get, I would say, one of the most true-to-life Zoom calls I've ever seen on screen.
30:31 >> No pants. >> I mean, just all all business waist up, all party waist down, >> the private messaging on the sidebar. Like, clearly they have a very familiar and maybe overly familiar relationship. and the level they get to by the end of this episode. I am impressed shocked by her gall on like the level f first of all him inviting her over to the house >> in front of like Zach is right there. There's a lot of just like shamelessness happening but the couch lean that Lexi >> No, it's not even a lean. She's like half on his lap.
31:04 >> I mean, she's halfmounted. >> I usually I don't like to like blame the women in these scenarios. Usually he's the married guy, but she is putting the moves. She brought >> She's not She's not going to take no for an answer. >> She brought the purse flask. >> Yep. >> She's just sort of like those people look like they have a lot of sex. Are you having a lot of sex, Tom? >> Who's taking care of you?
31:28 >> Who's taking care of you, Tom? Like Jesus Christ, pull your jets, Lexi. >> But he is also the like, "Oh, my wife's not coming home." Yeah, you should come over. You know, >> and she did get the hint as as soon as he was like, "I'll wait up for you." She's like, "Got to pack the bag. >> >> She knew her queue on that one. Just tough. >> This This purse booze party is over. yeah, Lexi. Wow. Wow. Wow. I don't know if they're going to use her the same way that this archetype has been used previously infair. I learned my lesson from presumed innocent. I will not presume anything, but this is this is a character we've seen before.
32:00 >> and Leviva is here to play it. you know, it's Patrick Wilson. Who among us would not fling ourselves across the >> like she wants a squeeze of that dropper? And I think many people would understand. when it wasn't the weightlifting but later in the sort of end of episode marital congress moment and he's there in his boxer briefs and I googled how old is Patrick Wilson that man is 52 >> unreal >> 52 that between that and Coleman Domingo who's also in his 50s on Euphoria I'm just like what are what are we putting in the droppers Jesus Christ >> I would say it gives me a lot of hope but let's be real about it like those guys are on a different level. They're pulling it off in a way that us normies simply never could.
32:42 >> The cast was asked sort of like what they did to unwind from such intensive storytelling or whatever. And Amy is like, "I drank a lot of wine." You know, Harvey Everan's like, "Whatever." And Patrick Wilson's like, Patrick Wilson's like, "I work out so much. I work out all the time." And I'm like, "We can tell, buddy. We can tell." That's his draft. >> How did you feel about our first glimpse of aggro, Tom? Him really going to work pumping iron after Well, I maybe we're getting too far ahead, but like after this After Ethan Ethan Embry shows up, >> Ethan Embry shows up and there is an almost conflict.
33:13 >> So, we're calling him Ethan Embry because we do not have a character name. We know the young lady who's with him is Trish. >> She gets named up several times. We do not know who Ethan Embry is playing of as of the recording of this podcast. >> What if he's playing What if he's reprising his role as the bass player from That Thing You Do? >> Oh my god, that would be great. >> That this could be what happens to him.
33:31 someone texted me that the actor who plays Shades in that thing you do play is playing L. Woods's father in the L show that's on Amazon. So, listen, if if the wonders want to stay employed, who among us would stop them? >> Ethan Embry is here looking as Ethan Embry has in the past decade or so. why do you think he's here? I have a theory, but I'm curious why you think he's here. >> I don't know.
33:58 >> Okay. I think the purpose of this scene is one, so we do see a hint of like a more confrontational imposing Tom, right? Who is putting his foot down, who's saying like, you got to get out of here immediately. >> And crucially for plot purposes, we see the gun safe and see him pull the guns out of it. Our introduction to like, okay, there are guns in the house, >> right? >> But how did he get here? Who was he invited by?
34:21 >> I think that requires a level of like umbrella theorizing that I just don't even know where to start anymore. >> Guess what? I'm ready. Okay, please. >> So, invited by Tommy, the owner of the house, right? So, someone posing as him or someone who's like trying to with him. So, like my first instinct was like, it's Max. Max like went and found a a rando and was like, "Hey," cuz he doesn't seem like >> he really did not seem like he knew Tom in any way. Tom didn't certainly didn't know him, but he really did not seem like he was directing this towards Tom.
34:49 He did see and wave to Natalie, which I did not like. I'm wondering if it's Ted Lavine, Anna's father, who is bipolar. >> Oh, >> doesn't he just seem like the kind of guy who would have met Trish and Ethan Embry somewhere and have been like, you know, my son-in-law Tommy owns a pool. Like, come by. >> Maybe, but his like their relationship is already so strained. And he does seem earnestly like he does at least part of him want to connect with Anna again.
35:20 >> But I also think he's mentally unwell. So, I don't know like what's going on there. That's my That's if I were to draw a line. >> You think that's the clearest possibility? >> That's my guess. >> I can't think of an like someone either did this purely by accident or specifically to provoke and make the like the Bowdens feel even more unsettled than they already are. >> I have to say like the face of true terror to me is not necessarily like a couple people coming over to use your pool. I understand that it's >> well it's like a >> it's your property. It's your backyard.
35:49 It's a whole thing. Well, there's an ongoing like with, right? So, it's like also I mean I definitely think Max is the one who let his dog in the yard would be my guess. >> Yeah, that seems that's that one does line up pretty nicely. >> So, like it's we're just chipping away at his sanity. You just need to go back to the dropper more and more frequently. >> It's an accumulation. It's the death by a thousand cuts over and over and over is Ethan Embry >> apparently. But I think I think what makes me hesitate that it would be Brandon Anna's dad is specifically the line we get from Ethan Embry about like, "Oh, this pool's just here and you're not even using it." That's a little selfish, isn't it? And it's like that seems more provocative. That seems more like a direct challenge in a way that's meant to needle Tom.
36:30 >> Class class solidarity would be an embry use your pool or lose your pool. I think that's right. >> Squatters rights even in a pool. >> Stand your ground in a pool. yeah. Gosh, Tom, you don't strike me as a violent. I mean, I want Ethan Emry to come back. I thought his energy was really fun. Yeah. check off gun safe. We're definitely going to see that gun safe again. And then this is the image we get over the opening credits. This is a >> an ongoing thing this season where like you get a provocative image in this case is Patrick Wilson standing behind the bars of the closed gate and then you get the font of like cape fear coming over him. In episode one, it was the blood spatter of Amy Broncado's second attempt at blowing her brains out. That's that's what happened. And then in episode two, it was Max Katy on the ground getting arrested. So, I was just sort of wanting to track like what are the images that were putting this opening title over.
37:24 Peanut Butter the Cat, who I'm very worried about. We see Peanut Butter sort of like ringing around Natalie's ankles as it kind of seems like it's Natalie's cat more than of all the people in the family, she's been the one interacting with the cat the most. >> So like, you know, usually there's like one person in the family who is like most closely the cat's favorite. >> Wow. >> That's just true. >> Are you your cat's favorite?
37:46 >> Yes, obviously. >> I just want to make sure. >> Do you Does your dog play favorites? >> Not really. >> Dogs don't play favorites, but cats do. >> I think the possessiveness of a cat is very different than the possessiveness of a dog. Unless you have a Chihuahua type like lap dog fixated on one person. >> A purse dog. >> Yeah. >> Ray and Anna seen in the car. Anything you want to say about this?
38:05 >> We get the mirrored phone, a second second phone. Zach already has a second phone. Now there's a phone mirroring his primary phone. >> So there's phone A, Zach's phone. >> Yeah. >> Phone A1, which is the clone of Zach's phone, and phone B, which is the burner. >> Yes. >> I just think Ann and Tom have a lot going on. they are though terrible parents. Really, really bad parents. Tom's behavior with Zach in the house of just like, "Yeah, let me invite over my kind of work maybe girlfriend and we're just going to micro dose together."
38:37 Insane. >> While my son is upstairs, my son, who already resents me, is upstairs. >> We already had a conversation in which he straight up lied to me about meeting with Max and talking to him. Okay, that's one thing. Anna wanting to clone this phone in the first place. And Ray's like, "Here's a crazy idea. Have you thought about having a conversation with your son?" She's like, "I simply couldn't." >> Yeah. >> This is, but this is how we drive plot.
39:00 This is how we get through 10 episodes. The parents have to make really bad decisions. >> There was a moment when she was sort of messing on the phone and then Natalie came in with a blue dress, which we'll talk about in a second. and then she hides it in the couch cushions. >> Y >> I was like, if Anna leaves that phone in the couch cushions, she's going to >> Oh my god, >> she's going to leave the phone in the couch cushions. Also, when you give the phone back to your son who you do not trust and you have cloned his phone, do not say, "We love you and we trust you."
39:28 That is a comment that will haunt you. >> There's a lot of trust building inside of this episode. attempted trust building. >> okay. Anything else you want to say about Rey, who has at least some good parenting advice? We already talked about Tom lifting. I just want to note that like, you know, as is the case with other places in the house, like the gym is under slight construction, but I do think the like desk dexteresque like plastic sheeting that's plastic is like, is something going to happen? Are we going to need that sheeting to like roll up a body at some point?
40:02 >> I'm already conditioned to think that anytime there's a bench press or a weight bar of any kind, someone's head might be smashed on it. >> Fair enough. Fair enough. on the on the Wendy Wilson conversation which we've already talked about and we've already alluded to this but we should note that they are marking the Capefar as a river or at least a river associated with a a cape >> possibly among other things. Right. >> Could just be Capefar River. It could be a river around the actual Cape Fear. I don't know that we're ever going to go there necessarily.
40:30 >> I definitely think we're going to go there. >> You think we're Are we going to go to the river? >> I 100% think the climax of this show is on the River Cape Fear. I could see it. But are we going to catch a fish with our bare hands and cook it up very modestly? >> Did you oil and garlic? >> Did you, Rob Mahoney? Yeah. >> Foodie relate to Max Katie's description of how we prepare this fish.
40:49 >> It sounded lovely. It is the way to prepare fish. Here's my question for you. >> You're not so different, you and my certainly not. the tomato slicing sandwich scene we get with Max and Zach as Anna stumbles into the kitchen and finds them. >> Pinch it at the base. >> Pinch it at the base. I can't decide whether it makes him more or less believable as a chef. We're told canonically he owned a restaurant. He ran a restaurant >> named for his wife. So is it just called the Amanda, do you think?
41:14 >> I guess maybe just Amanda. >> Okay. >> But the use of a non serrated knife, which is clearly the best way to cut a tomato. >> Mhm. >> They go straight knife instead. But it's a very clean cut and he's he's very smooth with it. >> Well, your knives have to be very sharp. >> Well, clearly, but this isn't even his knife. This is Anna's. This is a Bowden knife. Are we adding that to the list of So, we've got nail gun. Yeah.
41:35 >> Gun safe and could can slice through a tomato with ease. Sharp kitchen knives. >> I want to say somebody did grab that knife in the first two episodes to go out in the backyard. Maybe Tom did in, you know, one of the backyard spooking >> Leavine sort of moment. Yeah. >> I All I'm saying is I I think I'm coming down on the side of this guy is so good with a knife that he could even convincingly and non smooshingly slice a tomato.
41:58 >> You use a serrated knife to cut a tomato? >> Definitely. I'm not going to question you because you know more about cooking than I do. I just that would never occur to me. >> It's the best way to me to not get your tomato totally compressed as you hold it. >> Will it not tear up the skin? >> Shockingly not. >> Interesting. Try it. Okay. Franchesco Scorsesei cameo which we already mentioned. >> This this to me was another of a lineage too though. mentioned, you know, the ways in which we are calling back and hearkening back to these previous projects with some of the casting, but like one of Scorsese's other daughters, Dominica, is in his version of Cape Fear as one of Julia Lewis's classmates. So, we we are continuing that tradition, too.
42:38 >> Great catch. what do you make of >> Anna calling Natalie a truffle pig for rooting around in her closet? >> The charm was not lost on me. >> Okay, here's my note. >> Yeah. for the costume department. I lived in the 90s. That's an that's an 80s dress. Best a like 9192 dress, >> but that's not like Amy Adams teenager dress, I don't think, if the math is right. So, >> what should they have used instead?
43:11 >> like a baby doll dress. >> I could see it. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And that and that reads more as convincingly vintage in a way that a teen would actually want to wear today. >> Yeah, cuz that dress is ugly. And when Callie, who sucks, >> yeah, >> says, "How Old Navy have you?" I'm like, "Yeah, >> she's both right." But that's also maybe the most evil thing that happens in this episode. >> Brutal. >> I mean, no shade if you shop at Old Navy, but like that dress was like that dress is ugly. Not in like not even in like a Well, you could wear that dress if you were going to like a party or like an 80s themed party or a 90s theme if you actually believe that's from the 90s, like whatever. I've seen like excessively ruffled 80s dresses styled out well, whatever. As a cover up for your bathing suit at a pool party? I don't see it. Absolutely not.
43:59 >> Yeah. >> No. And the fact that Anna like let Natalie walk and also why is Anna holding on to that dress? The fact that like she let Natalie walk out the door in that is also a bad parent. As bad as cloning your son's phone, I would say. >> The evidence is piling up. >> Yeah. Okay. The Angel X encounter at the diner. >> Detective Anna on the case. >> Oh, yeah. Based on one mere duck on the plate, she finds the diner.
44:19 >> She knows the plate wear of every diner in the broader Savannah area. >> Is there a diner that you could identify by the plate? >> Not a single chance. >> No, because I feel like usually >> like something clearly marked with the name. I >> feel like usually it's it's like that like plain white ceramic with the with the brown ring around it. Like that's that's Yeah, they all use it. The duck is >> I guess it is singular.
44:39 >> Followup question. Orange soda with breakfast for dinner. I Googled this to see if it was a thing and I could not find anything. Like I was I was like, "Is this a southern thing?" But I couldn't find this. And so I guess I understand if you're like, >> "We drink orange juice with breakfast, but it's breakfast for dinner, so let's try an orange soda." But like that sounds demented to me. I don't know how you feel about it.
44:58 >> Well, I am someone who will drink Diet Coke at any hour of the day, including with breakfast. >> That's a true fact. I know about you. >> I'm fine with that part of it. Orange soda is just like sugary and intense in a totally different way. I would almost prefer like I've been to places and diners that offer a sort of like orange juice and either sparkling water or Sprite kind of like almost an orange kind of vibe but but non-alcoholic. That absolutely a little sparkle with your juice. Spritz. Yes. A spritz. Yeah.
45:23 >> Interesting. Yeah. Orange soda, which I think is much more of a thing in the south than it is where I'm from. But like you just have to be in a very specific mood for orange soda. >> Yeah. Being 13 years old, that's the mood. I feel like once every three years I want an orange soda and I get a Fanta and then I'm sad for another three years. >> Once every three years we're all spiritually 13. You you have to tap into your younger self.
45:46 >> All right. You already noted that you think Anna was being a piece of and giving this girl money and offering her a place to stay. Anything else you want to say? What do you make of this girl's vibe? Like how do you feel about her? She's allegedly 16 years old. >> Yeah, I don't know if I believe that. >> That actress is 25 years old. That is a tough cell for me honestly, but >> I mean clearly very suspicious. Yeah.
46:04 You're meant to ask questions about every aspect of the interaction. What is her real name? What is her goal here? I really have no idea. I did laugh though a lot at RIP little homie about the toe. >> Great texting work. >> So, her texting work continues to be great. >> What did you make of Anna's like impression of her teenage son via texting? >> Poor too much punctuation. >> Oh, the LOL and then a period after.
46:28 >> Are you kidding me? >> That's like That's a German three smoking gun if I've ever seen one. Wouldn't believe it for a second. Yeah. anything else you want to say about that scene? >> I do have something kind of about the scene, but really more broadly about the Zach storyline here cuz Anna is kind of questioning like what did you do? Like how how are you involved potentially with this stuff that has been happening with my son with the toe?
46:49 >> Yeah, >> I know Zach is doing disaffected teenage boy very convincingly. That kid is as unbothered by the fact that he may have bitten off and ingested his own toe >> as I think any human being could conceivably be. Why is he being so chill about all this? >> Based on interviews that this actor gave he's describ he's like this is the things I have to do this season are wild. So I think he's like cal the actor is calibrating of what he has to like build up.
47:20 >> It's going to get worse. I have to eat my whole hand later. So, you know, >> I really really hope not. >> Yeah. Naa, like we don't know what her motiv like her motivation is. If it's actually targeted and personal to the Bowdens, if >> Zach was just a good customer and she's pissed so she'll like turn their nice preppy soccer star daughter against them or what's going on. I did think there convers I mean there's a lot of questionable writing in the show but I thought the conversation of like that she has later with Natalie where it's like everything you have is on loan >> and you're in debt and the only way to pay it is with good grades and soccer and all this sort of stuff like that like I thought that was like a really good scene really well written.
47:58 >> Agreed. And and the kind of thing that would prod Natalie in just the right way into acting a little bit out as far as the theory of is Naa actually related to Max in any way. Yeah, >> I think we're probably going to come down on no. I would say it doesn't dissuade me the fact that she looks at a picture of this man and was like, "Yeah, I definitely him." Because that is what kind of show this is.
48:18 >> True. But she really she did not seem to me to know not just like >> no, >> I'm acting like I don't know him. Like she genuinely seemed to not know him. >> I don't think she knew him. I also think we've given notes to Anna the mother. Anna the detective. If you're going to show a picture of somebody to someone and ask if they're familiar, don't pull up the Google image result that says like Max Katie in text right under the photo. I I just think she could have done a slightly better a slightly better job of not leading the witness.
48:47 >> You know what? You're right. okay. Max shows up, cuts a tomato, cuts up in the kitchen. Like really great stuff from Javier Bardam in the scene when he's like eating the sandwich and he's like, "We knocked on the door. Your son answered the door." Like all of it I thought was really really good. This is like this is why we're here. >> This is it. >> This is why we're here. >> This is the vibe. This is the exact energy I want from Javier Bardm all season.
49:10 >> And also I've just never been more convinced that that cat's going to die as when he feeds it a little piece of turkey. >> We've been worried about peanut butter from the start, but when he dropped a little piece of turkey. Now you were wondering if that piece of turkey was poison. I think it's just him ingratiating himself >> to the cat. Not not since, but when you first saw him >> there was a flickering thought of like is the cat going to die right now while they're on the road trip.
49:28 >> We have seven more episodes to go. Rob, you got to figure things out. Yeah. but that cat, I am quite worried about the cat. >> >> just toast. >> Okay, Anna is excited to sit down with these private prison folks, make them eat Yeah. >> I did want to shout out Patrick Wils. Okay, we've gotten a lot of emails about Amy Adams accent on the show. We are eternally Amy Adams defenders. >> We are. I don't mind the accent personally, but I do want to admire when Patrick Wilson's delivery of like he doesn't know anything. Like he did a really good job with the don't know. Yeah, >> he doesn't know anything.
50:06 >> I find honestly with all the actors, it's there are moments where they have the accent. Yeah. >> Margarita Lviva like dropping her G's left and right in a way that >> like drinking ain't having an affair basically. Like >> little moments of okay, this is kind of fun and then it just like will disappear for all of these actors. It just vanishes without a trace. sat in a room and wrote down drinking ain't happen. all right. Natalie gets droned while she's doing yoga. Drones. Here's I I'm out on any drones at all whatsoever. I think all drones should be banned.
50:42 That's how I feel. >> A bold stance. What about the war ones? You think those are good? >> Hilarious. War especially. But I'm just saying like it is absolutely insane that people are allowed to put a camera on a thing and just send it anywhere. >> Just a thing you can do. >> We used to I haven't had it happen in LA, but when I lived in Oakland, like people would just like hover drones outside your windows like all the time and you're just like what the Why are you allowed to do that?
51:06 >> Like how is that in itself not stalking? >> Right. Exactly. >> Terrifying. >> >> I'm glad we're tapping into some of the technological terror with this version of Capefar cuz yeah, there's just a lot of parts of modern life that I'm I'm not down for. I just don't think there's like I've not seen a use for drones that is enough to justify their existence. >> Nope. >> Dumb shots in movies that we used to accomplish with helicopters. I don't know.
51:29 >> More choppers. >> Yeah, bring back the choppers. We love those gas guzzling choppers. >> Screw the environment. >> all right. Anything you want to say about Well, what about the station wagon? So, Jul, we see Julia Lewis in the station wagon before we see anything else. And Max seems to rec she's like Anna's like do you recognize that car? And Max's like no. >> You don't think we should take his word for it? He's being so honest about everything else.
51:53 >> Can we carate that car? That looks like a 1980s car to me. >> It does look very 198 I mean honestly could predate even that though. >> It's one of the few things we actually do know about Juliet Lewis's character at this point. Don't know who she is. Don't know what she's after. Clearly has enough familiarity with Max to know the whole butthole surfer dog collar situation and drives a station wagon. butthole swifer dog collar situation atgmail.com. So when they're in the conference room and Anna is doing her luring thing and >> there's a literal storm of brewin outside in Atlanta. What did you think of all of that of the setup?
52:28 >> I think most I mean clearly it's meant to bog them down to have more time to spend together as they have to huddle up in the motel >> and really I think just setting up Tabitha for extremely convincing 6040. Yeah, >> this woman is either having the ride of her life or being murdered. >> and so we're getting a lot of like >> I think Dusty is capable of the ride of your life kind of stuff.
52:50 >> We haven't really seen him do a lot. We know that he speaks when spoken to. He's kept in his cage most of the time. >> Yeah. Yeah. He knows how to take an order. >> I assume there's a reason Tabitha keeps him around. >> Okay. >> And I I don't know that his camera work is it, but maybe it is. >> I think I think for motel sex on the road, Dusty can come through for >> He can do the job.
53:08 >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. yeah, this this storm is a brewin. I thought the look that he gives her when she touches him Yeah. >> was like I think they were in love. I do. >> I think I think they were like in love. >> Yeah. >> And he is not only like >> angry at the way she betrayed him legally, but like okay when they have their coffee conversation, he's like >> Yeah. You know, when you first saw me and you believed in me and you were defending me and then something changed.
53:39 >> Something shifted. >> What do you think that thing is? >> I have no idea. Like maybe it is that she found out a certain truth about him relative to the murder or not and her whole opinion of him changed, >> but that's not really how she's acting right now. >> You don't think it's a positive pregnancy test? >> I mean, it could be the positive pregnancy test, but would that alone be enough to completely shift her mood around him?
54:00 >> Yeah. Well, I think it could be enough to insert some doubt of just sort of like it's one thing to defend someone, it's another thing to have a child with someone that you think might have done something like this. >> Well, also someone who even even if the best case scenario of this plea goes down is like the father of your child is going to prison for 20 plus years, >> right? >> Not exactly convenient for a mother in her position. So like maybe there's enough reason to want to create a buffer and kind of like >> negotiate that as best she can under the circumstances. Clearly not super well though. Do you think if if she was pregnant with his child and that's who Natalie is, do you think he knows?
54:38 We have not seen him like barely even look at Natalie. >> Yeah. Sub question. Do you think Tom knows? >> I don't think Tom knows. I think that's the main secret Anna's keeping from Tom. >> But okay, so Anna's keeping a secret from Tom. Tom and Anna are keeping a secret together from Max. And they address that briefly in the sense of like >> legal collusion of some sort. some some kind of collusion or something else related to it.
54:59 >> Yeah, I I kind of think he does not know that Natalie is his child. I don't know how he would unless he just put together the timetable. >> Yeah, I think he's going to find out before the season is over. >> Clearly. >> Okay, great. anything else you want to say about Tabitha? Her purse booze, the ride of her life, her not wanting to be doing social media when she's in her 40s. That was a great line delivery from the Barishnikov, offspring. I I'm enjoying her. She's just trying to make it in a dying industry. I found her very relatable in this episode, you know, like she she's just trying to make it happen.
55:30 >> Everyone's wearing blue in the show. It's not just Amy Adams and Javier Bardamm who's wearing who are wearing literally the exact same shirt. Oh, also Rob and I are thinking of entering our linen button-down era. Do you think we could do you think we could pull them off? >> I told Rob I thought he might look to country lawyer. I might look to like soccer mom. I'm not sure. >> I think you could definitely pull it off. I have many concerns, lawyer and otherwise, about my general linen appeal.
55:54 >> If you do think we could pull off l linen button-downs, where should we procure them? I don't know that llban is the root. >> How do we make them look not rumpled? I'm still trying to figure it out. >> Help us out. >> But Tabitha is wearing like what I would describe as like a Best Buy blue polo for this trip. And I'm like, we can do better. But everyone's wearing blue. Like if once you start looking for the blue, it's like when we did True Detective, teal watch is off the charts.
56:18 I just think putting Tabitha on the Geek Squad is incredibly rude. >> She put herself on the Geek Squad. >> She's trying to dress semi-professionally to get this documentary series off the ground. >> May I interest her in a Lynen button down? >> Maybe. So, >> okay. >> I did love though in the coffee conversation. The way that Max flips even this $4.2 million settlement into something against Anna, it's like, "Yeah, you got me all this money, but if we worked it out yearbyear, and also we took the fees and the taxes, like you still owe me." kind of being the subtext to that for me. And I I love the way that Javier Bardm can kind of inject and invert those sorts of conversations as an actor.
56:56 >> I think that's right. we had a connection. I mean, >> did I'm Look, at this point, what do we actually know about Max Katy? has been released from prison, exonerated, single-handedly grabbing the private prison industrial complex by the balls. >> I got to say, we're pro. >> Beat up some Nazis. We love that. >> Beat up some Nazis. >> Yeah. >> Has he done anything wrong that we have actually seen? >> yeah, great question. cut the tomato with the wrong knife, I guess, is as as deep as you go.
57:31 >> Or one that is so wrong it's right. >> Licked that lady's face. >> Yeah, I'm not. That one wasn't great. But she also didn't seem great. You know, >> she Wendy Wilson did not seem great. >> Didn't like her vibe. Not saying you should lick ice cream off her face or threaten to strangle her, but she didn't seem great. >> Anything else you want to say about Natalie at the party? >> I have many things to say about Natalie at the party. I just think >> on the drone front, the only thing worse than stalking someone via drone is stalking someone via drone, hacking their phone, and then pretending that they themselves orchestrated an entire drone photo shoot of their ass doing yoga to post for themselves online as a thirst trap.
58:12 >> Natalie, great form on your downward dog. It's not your fault, >> but this is evil. This is a work of true evil. This is really >> So did you interpret that Naa/ Angel >> I think I she's shown herself to be and I would like to say >> we got some emails of people being like and you were questioning me you're like how much can Max Kitty accomplish in like World of Warcraft expertise and all this other stuff from the internet time he has in prison. Yeah. And >> Anna was like said the same thing I did which is there's internet in prison.
58:44 >> There is but there's like a dialup modem in there. >> We were both wrong and it's fine. but given that there is like some kind of techsavvy person behind a lot of what's going on here, Nivea seems like a good candidate for that. >> I'm glad you brought that up cuz yeah, she seems like she could be techsavvy. She also seems I mean she has access to a lot of drugs. Could have been drugging Zach. Definitely is offering Natalie some stuff. If you're just keeping track at home, this is now she has done maybe toe stuff with Zach. Definitely thumb stuff with Natalie. kind of like where this is going personally, but I race to you as we negotiate the possibility of witch drugs as we're saying if she is our our hacker potentially who could have gotten into Natalie's Instagram account. Is she a technopagan? Is that is that something we should consider?
59:28 >> Where does she dangle it? Great question. I would love if she was a technopagan. >> Would you have to give up your witch possum theory if she is a technopagan? I would have to put the witch possum to rest. Unless somehow a technopagan is capable of resurrecting a possum to do its will. >> I mean, every good technopagan needs a familiar. >> That is true. >> Okay, listen. love that you've introduced this concept to me.
59:53 >> I weirdly believe her when she says the toe stuff didn't happen on my watch. >> Okay. >> I think she's out here seducing teens and feeding them drugs perhaps to directly with the Bowden family or or just to have good business. I don't think the toe stuff was her. >> But how is it good? Is it just she just getting free samples and hoping that they get hooked on >> because I think Zach on >> I do think that Zach was like paying for the drugs eventually. Don't you think?
60:21 >> I don't know. I don't know what their arrangement was. >> Yeah. I don't know. But yeah, first first sun's free. >> First is free. >> I also I also got a huge kick out of >> if this is indeed Na has set up the drone, hacked Natalie's account, positioned herself at the party to opportunistically throw someone's phone into the pool. If all that is true, and walk by angrily, not acknowledge Natalie at all. >> Oh, a great hug.
60:45 >> Hey, what's your name? Dramatic pause. >> Yeah. >> Swelling angry strings. Amber, what's yours? Amber's the color of your energy. >> Amber, that's a survivor reference, which you don't get. That's fine. >> It's not. >> anything else you want to say? >> I did think to wrap up the scene, poolside bisexual lighting. That was a new one for me. And that to me is innovation. Seeing Amber and Natalie together during their thumb sucking smooch session.
61:15 >> Was the blue like reflecting off the pool and then sort of like the pink lavender was coming from. immediately was more red than pink, so maybe I'm straining the actual definition. But I think if you're getting a red blue contrast, warm and cold, you're at least in the ballpark. >> It's June. Happy Pride to Bisexual Bull. >> all right. Callie sucks. I did like that it was Sophia's brother who was like, "Hey, did you send this to everyone?"
61:42 >> Relishing. >> you know, everyone gets a little like shading inside of their shitty behavior. So he's like, "Didn't your brother, what did he say? Bite his own dick off." What did he say? >> Yeah. Have a meltdown and bite his own dick off. >> Great, great stuff. >> The rumor mill has been very active. >> Anything else you want to say? >> I think this was just a phenomenally something episode of TV. I don't know what it is, but boy, do I love talking about it.
62:07 >> We're not just going to talk about it. Here on the Prestige TV podcast feed, we have decided to enter our unhinged theory board era. So, if you're watching this on video, on Spotify, on YouTube, wherever you want to, we'll be back right after this with a special visual segment of this podcast. All right. So, you can listen to the segment if you want to, but it is a very visualbased segment. We have composed, what would you call this, Rob?
62:31 >> A conspiracy board. >> A conspiracy board for Cape Fear of all shows. Cape Fear. It's a show that we're watching. And we have procured a corkboard and we've got character names and important facts. and that we've purchased red string and it will be red stringed before all this is said and done. >> It will be strung >> many strings. >> Which area do you think most captures your inner derangement? >> It's like the combo of blue lid and shirts >> clearly.
63:01 >> And creep creepy tattoos. >> Creepy tattoos is very good. Yeah. >> We should note this is really your vision, your penmanship in particular. Just immaculate. >> I did do this. you did contribute some suggestions of course. This is how we've decided to format it. We've got character main characters up here, persons of interest over there. Julia Lewis, if she ever gets a character name, we will put the character name over there. Miscellaneous. And then these are just some key things that are happening that everything will probably be like routed and connected.
63:31 >> Fear standards. These are themes. Like this is the best we got. >> How about you? Do you have like a favorite section of this board? I mean, I told you earlier, but when you said kind of a preview of what the board might look like, the little sad face on no friends under Zack, it it did really get to me. But also, we got a lot of our favorites over here. We have Savannah coffee roasters represented. We have the witch stuff and the dog stuff and the butthole surfers and the possum.
63:54 >> Yeah, it's a lot going on. >> It's hard not to gravitate toward miscellaneous. >> there's a few things that we haven't put on that sort of occurred to us while we were recording this episode, like the the kitchen knife, Check Off's nail gun. you know, so there's a few things that are missing here, but we want to ask our listeners, >> please, >> please write in >> think of a baby carrot atgmail.com or prestige TV atspotify.com.
64:15 >> If you have a suggestion for an item that should go on here, we're not taking input on how this is laid out because this is the finish. We're not doing this again. >> What about yarn color? You know, like we were thinking red. Do we want to take input from I mean the real conspiracy borders out there? Well, I was wondering if maybe we should do like a teal blue because it's such a teal blue teal, you know, >> but or maybe green. I red is classic, but to me when I think conspiracy board, I always think >> you think of Carrie Mat.
64:47 >> I think of Carrie Matson. I think of my kingdom for a green pen. >> Well, we need a lot of highlighters if we're going to do that. >> Without a doubt. >> Okay. So, is it Carrie Mat? Is it Charlie from It's Always Sunny? Is it True Detective? What kind of conspiracy board are we doing? I think somehow by the end of the season, all of those people are going to seem healthier than we do.
65:07 >> Email us. Help us fill out the board. we'll be back with the stringed up version of this next week. This is a real thing we're doing. We are professional adults and that's fine. >> Yep. >> >> this is work. >> Anything else you want to say? >> I just could not be happier that this show is kicking into a gear that we were hoping but I don't know that I fully expected and I'm so glad we're here.
65:26 >> Ethan Embry's here. That's very important to me personally. Thank you to Kai Grady, Dev Ronaldo, Jacob Cornet, Office Depot, >> certainly basically a sponsor of the show at this point, even though we're giving them money. >> Rob's tomato cutting tips. linen Button-downs, >> Truffle Pigs, >> and Rob Mahoney. Thank you, Joe. >> Thanks. We'll see you soon. Bye. >>