Transcript
0:05 I need support staff to clear the room. Stand up and walk now. >> Hello and welcome to the watch. My name is Chris Ry and I am an editor at the ringer.com and join me in the studio. He doesn't want a refund. He just wants the person who did this to find out. It's Andy Greenwald. >> That was a joyful opening for what might be a sad show. I wanted to let you know that I have accepted an offer to run 60 Minutes.
0:34 I feel qualified to do this based on >> You have a little bit of a built-in vibe to you, you know? >> Wow. In what sense? >> Gadfly, >> overconfidence, >> spectacled. Yeah. >> Ready to tear down booge industry to industry. Just sort of like a, hey guys, let's open the box and then throw the box off the table. >> Jokes aside, I do believe I was a finalist, but his writing credit on the idol, I think, is what pushed him over the top. We can talk about 60 Minutes if you want. We can also talk about >> name Widow's Bay Maximum Pleasure Guaranteed Top Chef. I have a prompt for you that's related to Star City but will not involve people having watched Star City >> and will not be in its native Russian.
1:13 >> Yeah, I have a couple things to say. One, you can email us at thewatchspotify.com. You can follow us on Instagram at thewatchpod >> you that's on Instagram. And then you can watch us on YouTube at the Ringer-Stv channel along with the Prestige TV pod. They are going to be rocking Cape Fear. on Friday, you and I both grinning our teeth trying to decide, are we jumping back in with Max Katy? I don't know. what else? What else? What else? You can also listen to us on Spotify or wherever you get podcasts. I told you what we're listening to today >> and Star City. We'll probably talk about episodes two and three in detail on Monday.
1:52 I will repeat it. You don't need to have seen for all mankind to appreciate it. >> Star City got the rare CR Instagram boost. >> Did it? >> But you you posted on Instagram that you like it >> because I don't think in the title it talked about how much I liked it. And Star City is one of these weird shows that people are like, like I was texting with a friend last night, like you should watch Star City and and she was like >> an Apple show that no one's heard of.
2:25 Say less. which we will be talking about Apple TV. It's a weird Apple TV moment. They've got a ton of stuff on right now. >> I mean this this moment is an argument for their frankly borderline irresponsible strategy, which is to flood the zone. And they have a number a disproportionate number of good to very good to in one case absolutely great series on the air right now. >> Yeah. >> >> so so kudos to Tim Apple.
2:55 >> I did have a Star City thing for you. Hey, do you like >> Hey, >> actually really like with the 60 Minutes stuff. >> Yeah. >> I don't When's the last time you watched 60 Minutes? like sat down and watched it. >> And Andy Rooney retired when I mean this spirit is with us in the room. Let me just say blink twice. Blink twice if Andy Rooney has been doing this podcast with me. >> conservatively I would say 1989.
3:27 >> Are we really sure Sydney Sweeney knows what she's doing? >> show me the light. >> Why did I Jimny glick that? When's the last time you saw 60 Minutes, >> Sam Levenson? >> This is There's opportunity here. Do you want to commit to this? >> yeah. 60 Minutes. Have you watched it? >> No. >> I watched it some with my mom over the last couple of years. It was obviously a staple and I think for most people it's kind of a >> the tick tick tick means it's time for school next tomorrow. but >> yes, it's it means football's over.
3:59 >> I watched the episode >> not too long ago. because it got recommended to me somehow I think in YouTube to watch none other than Scott Piece about ghost truckers, Serbian ghost truckers. I spoke about this story on the on the Wait a Second podcast with Jason >> singer of Serbian Ghost Truckers on the pod when I was >> Yeah, I mean they broke up after that, but that's okay. No, but it was a great piece about trucks on the American highways that are basically circumventing Department of Transportation rules. I don't know if the Department of Transportation has rules any longer. Yeah.
4:38 >> all those guys are just bronzing statues in DC now getting ready for 250. >> Sean Duffy's making his reality show. >> but it was an incredible piece of journalism that like definitely made me look at >> trucks, >> the roads and trucks differently. so it's disappointing if it winds up going away or turning into something that it is a pale shadow of itself. >> I mean, I just separate and I'm not going to sit here and pretendation of itself. I don't >> I don't watch I didn't watch the Steven Colbear program. I don't watch 60 Minutes. I'm not going to engage with the merits of those programs specifically or the larger conversation about market trends for late night shows and television broadcast news. Yeah.
5:21 What the joke at the top was more like I just find this all so borderline despicable. The the the ego and the incompetence in a perfect encapsulation of what living in America has felt like for the last 10 years where people who have it's not about having reverence for the institution like listen who are bigger hashtag disruptors than the two of us. >> That's true. It's about the presumption that you >> TV on our phones. the presumption that the that that that the Barry Weisses of the world and the Nick Buildings of the world know better because they are challenging orthodox group think or whatever that you could be a Vanity Fair editor and a screenwriter, both of which are fine professions, and be like, "Yeah, I could probably run the most stable and respected news organization in the history of television news internationally probably as well." The ego of that is lame. and why we are where we are.
6:18 >> Yeah. I mean, I think that my only take on it really is that this is the this is an example in the media like, you know, you could make your arguments about how much it costs to run a late night show versus what it actually brings in in terms of ad revenue versus what it brings in in terms of viewership. 60 Minutes is a profitable and popular television show that I think is relatively popular across a political spectrum because >> Yeah. It is not the nation.
6:45 >> Yeah. it never has been. So, it's strange that I think to me what what I respond to in the stories that I've read about the upheaval at the show is just a disgust on the part of the new leadership with the principles and processes that go into making 60 Minutes >> principles, >> but it's just the idea that like, you know, because this may not >> bend around the shape of a narrative that I want out there or that I want to tell, I want to do away with certain methods of of producing good journalism and it it's just like I think journalism just became too big of a denture >> where it's just like they're they're just I just think that like there 60 Minutes did a really good job telling stories that people didn't know in a very fidious way and now it's like going to be yet another bastion of oped >> you just ask Gemini bro look I I just feel like these like the these avaricious climbing bootlickers are behaving like nothing's ever going to swing back. And maybe they're right. Yeah.
7:50 >> And jokes's on us, but generally pendulums swing and then what are we doing? And then what what are the ruins that we're left with? So >> I don't know. >> Cool. I had >> see you guys next week. Talk about the Top Chef finale >> prompts with you for the for the top of the show. I have participated in and listened intently to Sean and Amanda documenting this moment in movies on the big picture. So, I went on >> How do you document it when you're not on the show? Do you take notes?
8:19 >> well, no, they documented. I listened to their document. So, they they've been documenting. >> Yeah, I was on the back rooms episode and the Obsession episode, talking about those two movies individually. And then since then, Sean and Amanda have talked really really intelligently about like what it means for movies. Sean wrote a great piece in on his Substack projection about, you know, I don't even know is it pro? It is projections. I for a second I thought it was a singular projection but that wouldn't really make sense.
8:47 >> Not the way he lives his life. >> No. on his Substack he wrote a great piece about like what this moment means in movies. And it has been a minute since I have felt that way about TV. I also have a different relationship to television than Shawn does to movies where I think Shawn very much sees the movies as a kind of like quasi third space religious kind of pastime for himself and television is cool.
9:13 >> >> this is how I feel about movies and TV too. Honestly, I don't think he's wrong. >> No. Yeah. But I don't have like that William H. Macy and sports night like tearful conversation about television being the American campfire kind of thing. >> I have a William H. Macy and Boogie Nights attitude towards people working between the two mediums. >> what am I trying to ask about this? We've had conversations before about whether any outsiders could come into television and talked about the the hurdles to like independent television making and how expensive and >> complicated it is to put together a long form series. But >> it does feel like Obsession and Back Rooms have moved into like pole position and moved movies into like a real like center of the culture kind of everybody you know people at the gym people at the coffee shop are like, "Hey, have you seen Back Rooms? Have you seen this?
10:04 Like what's what did you think of it? >> So I would say it's interesting the way you're framing it because I think there's a different way to look at it. I think there's a way to look at the rise in an important way certainly for the big picture podcast and the movie industry to look at the success of those movies as fresh blood coming in fresh voices fresh perspective and audienc's desire getting away from IP trips. What I would counter with is the most recent comparison to something like a phenomenon like back rooms would be the pit. And the reason I say the pit is not because these are young people showing you a fresh way in. That is the opposite of what the pit is. It is old hands. What both have done though I would say is remind people why we engage with these mediums in the first place in a collective celebratory way. Meaning the pit has both reminded multiple generations and taught a new generation that this little box used to give us a story every week and it used to give us stories that we were excited about, surprised by, compelled by and it built over time and we would talk about it. Like I think it is safe to say that like in terms of water cooler chat if people even for those of you who aren't work working from home like the pit dominates people were talking about it in a way that we used to talk about television shows. So I think that in terms of putting things back in the center of culture in a way that felt both affirming for those of us who work in those spaces but also giving a sense of optimism that maybe a new generation might begin to speak that language. That would be the comparison.
11:40 >> That's an awesome take. >> Thanks, man. >> I got to tell you, I you know, I don't even have like one that's comparable. I think that, you know, I was listening to The Town and Matt and Lucas Shaw were talking about this phenomenon and Craig chimed in, Craig Whack, who who's our producer on the Rewatchables as well, >> and was just like, "You guys are going back and forth about whether studios are going to keep making IP >> and he's like, "The point is is that like younger people don't give a about 1980s franchises or 1990s franchises >> and we'll see. I mean there's a world in which you you can AB test this easily but like there's a world in which Capefar is a sensation. There's a world in which like not a single person you know watches it.
12:24 >> It's an example of something where it was like who was asking for this? Is this even intellectual property that is worth worthy of expansion? It's they've had two movies. You can say you're going back to the book but we all know like people are tuning in to watch Bardm do Dairo and do Mitchum. >> Yeah. what is kind of like you're you're taking something that was a polished diamond of a thriller and now expanding it I believe to 10 hours.
12:50 >> Well, I think the comparison though I think Cape Fears the margin for Capefar isn't going to convince anyone. I think when we talked about it before that at whatever level these conversations exist at Apple, I don't think they are actively saying or at least they're not even addressing the idea of like reinventing Capefar for a new generation. This is comfort prestige food for a generation that doesn't go to the movies anymore, >> right? >> The the comparison I think that Craig was right to point out would be there's a He-Man movie opening this weekend >> and it's apparently pretty good.
13:21 >> But but okay stop you dead in your tracks. >> That is not a that was a take. >> I was not a He-Man man was >> but so I don't know. >> Those toys were fine. those toys. >> I think that there are guys out there waiting to see Skeletor do his work like this for a long time. >> Wake me when Tony Gilroy does the Orcco spin-off. >> Okay. >> Just let let me know when that's on the docket.
13:48 >> Okay. You're too afraid of my dangerous ideas. That's why I'm in here. >> I recently saw a bunch of behind the scenes photos of Tony on the set of Michael Clayton, you know, wearing a cool parka and going like this. We should just photoshop it. >> Floating. >> To be clear, Orcco was the floating magician who didn't have a body. It was just like a shirt. >> Sure. >> that was cool time for us to watch cartoons. My my point isn't even that like I don't the Masters of the Universe thing, even if it's good, there's a cynicism baked in the root of it where like I don't think there's even they're not converting a new generation to like follow the story of Eternia.
14:27 There wasn't even really a story. From everything I understand about the movie, it's like apologizing for itself as the bit throughout, which is just such loser culde-sac culture >> Somewhere at Venice Venice Beach, at the outdoor gym in Venice Beach, some guy's like, "THERE IS A STORY." >> WELL, that's because, guys, I've always been an Adam, not a He-Man. Like, I think there's there's two types of there are two genders, you know? So, I get it. But but yeah, like I think we would both want the fresh young voice in television, but television is a such a profoundly different beast. And it's a lot harder. I mean, television is a assembly line. Even at its most prestige or aur driven, you still need to unless you're being asked to do something that is radically outside the norm of a series order, you have to conform in ways and you have to have you have to kind of know what you're doing or surround yourself with people who know what they're doing in a way that I think is less I mean that exists in movies obviously, but I think it's less interventionist maybe in movies where a kid has a vision for something and then obviously he has line producers and professionals like making it a movie.
15:35 But that's different than saying we will write this and execute it across 10 hours and deliver it in a traditional television. >> And I think, you know, we're going to talk about some series today that I think have have grappled with some of the requirements of being what they are, you know, and being being told in the in the format that they're being told. I do feel like, you know, maybe the closest comparison I have, it's not necessarily, they're nowhere near as big as these films have wound up being, but the moment that I'm thinking of for TV >> is probably that, and I my dates could be wrong, but that 17 through 20 era of Atlanta Flea Bag and I may destroy you industry coming on this feeling that not only was there diversity of POVs, but there was like a generational shift and that people were speaking to a like a cohort of the audience that often doesn't feel kind of seen or addressed or or vocalized, you know, and I think that that felt like also formally we were getting some different kinds of stuff. Then I >> I think you're right. I think I'm being too conservative in my vision in that way. Like there was a moment when it wasn't just that there was a moment when streamers needed to get attention, not just retain subscribers. So they were willing to take bigger risks on things and the hopes of hopes of hitting a home run, but that creators like Phoebe Wallerbridge and Donald Glover and a host of others, Michaela Cole, I would put in there as well, essentially jump the line in what has been often to its detriment, but sometimes parenthesis the pit not to its detriment kind of stodgy and kind of wait your turn.
17:21 >> Yes. >> and you there's like a a 10 to 12 year process of starting at the bottom of a writer's room and then getting all the way up to executive producer. >> An example we use a lot is like Mad Men. The Mad Men pilot was the speck that Matthew Winer wrote when he was working on the Ted Dansen sitcom Becker in order to be hired by David Chase to spend however many years, four, five, six years at his knee basically writing that show before he got a chance. And the reason he got a chance when he was older than those creators we just mentioned was because AMC was in a position that a few years later Netflix and Amazon were in slightly where they were like we'll do the thing everyone else won't and we're kind of kind of past that.
18:01 >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. we talk about IP and we roll our eyes >> us a bit. >> Sure. >> Right now I'm going to play a little game with you about a piece of IP because apparently for all mankind is IP. We talked a little bit on Monday's show about Star City which is the series on Apple that's already aired to tomorrow. It'll be the third episode where it's a sort of retelling of the period of for all mankind from the POV of the Soviet space program. I don't know. I would assume that Apple is going to give this show more than one season just because it that's that's Apple's MMO, but I don't know if they're going to time jump at the exact moments that For all mankind has. So, it might be interesting. There may be some, >> you know, if you were a for all mankind completist, you might be able to watch Star City and be like, "Oh, so that's what it looked like when this happened that was offscreen for all mankind."
18:55 anyway, I wanted to play a fun game with you because we'll talk more about episode two and three on Monday, but >> take a well- reggarded or not show and then craft an alternative POV of the main narrative. So, this is kind of what Star City is doing. Now, you are not restricted to following a letter of the law way of this prompt, but I thought what else would Star City here? >> well, I've got five options. Jesus.
19:24 You know, you walk Can I just tell people he walked in with none? That's what this That's what I'm working with here. He is when the light goes on. >> Yeah. >> He can compare back rooms to the pit and he can come up with five other star cities. >> In my offense, I was started my day on London time today. So, you are get these are peak hours right now. >> Yeah. >> >> Well, it's transfer, you know, the transfer window is open in England. So, >> do do you do could we transfer ourselves?
19:51 do you want to go back and forth? Yeah, let's go back and forth. >> Okay. >> And and you're doing so well today. I want you to go first. >> Okay. which one should I start with? Well, some are I'll start with the most obviously Star Citized, which is if we take the premise where For All Mankind is a respected and beloved show that has never set the world on fire, and you're going to tell the Russian side of events.
20:14 Are we ready for a spin-off of The Americans called The Russians? And >> would the Americans actually be the American side of things? >> >> it wouldn't be Noah Emer's home life. >> The season of television would be the KGB trying to far it out deep cover American agents in Moscow in the 80s. >> Okay. >> See what I mean? >> Yeah. >> Like, >> oh, I see. >> Russians, right?
20:44 >> How small can we make the aperture for something that we would like? And are Star City using those Lithuania sets all year round or can we >> We could do like the pit and the night shift where they just keep rolling. >> Yes. >> Use the same cast, honestly. >> okay. My first one. >> Mhm. >> The smoking section. >> Oh, you've named these shows? >> Yes. >> A damn. See, that's what I could have done yesterday.
21:06 >> The smoking section. >> All right. >> The X-Files as told from the POV of the cigarette smoking man. >> Hell yeah. Now I'm going to >> It's basically a guy who loves smoking and has to like fend off these pesky FBI agents from time to time as he tries to bring aliens to it. >> So it's it's autobiographical. >> This is a deeply personal project. >> I'm always fending them off. >> My only first >> cash stop calling me man.
21:32 >> Instant green light. Who are you casting as the younger cigarette smoking man? Because the original actor sadly is no longer with us due to not due to the cigarette smoking. he's one of those guys that looks like he was born 64 years old. >> Great. >> It's hard to imagine him as Nicholas Gazelene or whatever his name. >> Oh, because no one looks like that anymore. >> Yeah. So, who who >> who looks like >> It's not who looks like It's like he's a guy who was probably pretty attractive, >> right?
22:01 >> And then and then smoked three packs a day until he looked like Mike Schmidt's fielding glove, you know? So, you want to cast someone almost too beautiful. >> So, maybe you do want Castle. >> He's ready to go to TV after this. >> Let's do that. Let's do Nick, >> dude. Like, why? >> I don't know. He's in He-Man. >> No, I know. So, you think that this is a soft landing spot for him? >> Once he's done being swole for He-Man, he can come.
22:25 >> He can smoke away the pounds. >> Okay. I like it. >> okay. Go. You're doing your next one. >> okay. my next one is a show called Recreation and Parks. It is a comedy show set in Eagleton, Indiana, starring Parker Posey. And it is just that side of the story of the run of parks and recreation which for people who don't watch the show >> there was a kind of like echoing the Simpsons there was a Springfield Shelbyville like there is the evil other town in the case of parks and wreck it was Eagleton where everything was rich and fancy and perfect and the parks department there was run by Parker Posy's character who was Leslie's friend turned nemesis and who doesn't want Parker Sam Elliott was on the show. Oh yeah, he was in Engle, wasn't he?
23:12 >> He was the he was the hippie Ron. >> That's right. >> More sandals. >> That's right. >> There's a lot there. We could do it. >> Sam would love to be sitting in more television shows at this point. So yeah, >> I mean, who can blame him? >> my next one is VEP, >> Vice President John Ho's POV on the Bartlett administration, Nicholas Gazeline. >> This is This is so niche right now. We are going so small board.
23:42 >> Yeah, but what if we brought in some of the cast of VEP to work in his office? >> Yeah. >> You know, just have t have hit maker, you know, get get Tony Hail in. >> Oh, but but they're earnest now. So the ZAG is VEP was a show that prefaced that like foreshadowed the clown car of American politics in the decade to come. So when you watch VEP now, it feels really precient. Whereas if you watch Parks and Wreck now, you're like millennial cringe.
24:08 >> Yes. Right. So, >> and if you watch Westway and you're like, is this the expanse? Like, what what do you >> Is this Oh, this is for all mankind where there's an alternate. >> So, this would be zagging back to >> I mean, this would be a bad TV show cuz it would be a guy being like, damn, I'm frustrated. This other guy's really kicking ass. >> What do you mean that's a bad TV show?
24:28 That's Breaking Bad. >> But you could have the campaign, you know what I mean? >> all TV shows are men frustrated that other men are doing better. >> No, but those guys are really good at one thing, right? on those shows. >> Yeah. Like I'm good at advertising. I'm good at math. >> Who played Hines? >> Tim Mat. >> All right. So, what was he good at? >> Like what or what? >> Fundraising, I think. >> Okay. Bundling.
24:48 >> I think I I think he was the Texas >> the Texas politician. >> Let's let let me let me push you the way a good showrunner might like how do we storeify that? Like what you want to add something that makes it more interesting or is he hosting parties in Texas and he >> Well, maybe I start to connect the CR CU. >> Wait, say it again. C R I P C U print it. >> and John Ho's working >> in in in conjunction with the cigarette smoking man to bring aliens. This will stop Bartlett.
25:20 >> And what's amazing is we never saw we like Bartlett was seeing all kinds of crazy with like like cornfields and bees and oil. >> Yes. >> And still he was just like what heals America is our common threat of decency >> is is granting clemency to a turkey. every more often than you'd think. >> Yeah. you got another one? >> That's great. >> yeah, I mean this is sort of obvious, but industry NYC. >> Oh, I have an industry one as well.
25:51 >> Yeah. Which would be the events of industry of the past few seasons, but told through the Pure Point New York office. >> The Adler the Adler verse. the the expanded Adlerverse where and here's what this is the part that's going to be slightly different and I want you to stay with me because it's kind of breaks cannon a little bit but the sexy young people who work on Wall Street go out and do drugs all night and each other in sexually curious ways.
26:14 >> Oh, I was going to say >> so that's kind of like >> what if all they did was go get matchas and and work out and walk their dogs. >> Yes. They just like they live in Williamsburg and they just go to the equinox that's next to the Chase Bank now. >> Yeah. Dorify that. >> I think we lived it. >> My industry spin-off is called Valley Boy and it's the previous season of industry told from the perspective of Rob living in California.
26:40 >> That's a good show actually. >> And he could just >> It's not even the perspective of the season. It's just put that character and all of a sudden the audacity is interesting. Yeah. >> Right. I'm sorry that was a stray. We haven't watched it. But I I think our lack of interest is >> No, I haven't I haven't checked it out so I don't know. But those those are my three. Did you have one more you wanted to do?
26:55 >> yes. Oh, I have two more. one one is called thoroughbreds. >> Did you just name it in this moment? >> No. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> Okay. Thoroughbreads. >> I didn't know we had to come up with cool names. >> Yeah. >> And what are thoroughbreds, Chris? How do you define a thoroughbread? What is a thorough bread? >> A racehorse. >> Not just a not just a racehorse. What? Use a different adjective. What What makes them raceh horses?
27:19 >> they run fast. >> Fast horses, baby. >> Okay. >> This is a show >> slow fast. This is a show set in the modern England English secret service with the people who are good at their jobs. >> Oh, so the >> Scott Thomas, >> what's the who's the blonde lady who's >> she's the head of the dogs? >> Yeah. >> No, but it's not even about the dogs because the good agent Scott Thomas side of things like when she's not dealing with Gary Oldman.
27:45 >> Yeah. Like it's just the agency in London with Kristen Scott Thomas and they don't up and like pass gas all the time. >> Yeah. And actually have like big things to do and not just like Yeah. What's wrong with that? Like >> some spy died on a bus. >> Like you know what the pit taught us? It's just like show about doctors doing doctor stuff. Good. Yeah. Spy show. Also, >> the last one is, you know, I think what was interesting about Star City was that it took it began in the same place essentially that For Mankind, >> For all mankind begins with the Soviets landing on the moon and spins off an alternate history. Star City begins however many years later. I think it's six or seven years since For All Mankind premiered, despite however many seasons they put out. Same went back to that that in initial alternate history hinch point and went off. So, I'm going back to the pilot episode of a beloved series all the way back to 2007 when a little show called Madmen began with a young woman coming to Don Draper and saying, "We would like to hire your firm to do the advertising for our department store." M >> and Roger Sterling said, "Why don't they get a Jewish firm reader?" I listened.
28:58 >> Jewish mad men >> mad mitzvah, baby. It's just the ad game with guys who >> is it crumbols. >> It's It's 100% crumbles in it. >> I should see I didn't do all the homework here. but I'm sure we could probably find a couple Jews in Hollywood who are ready to act on a television show. Crumb Holtz is obviously the heavy. >> He's he's the draper. >> I don't know if he's No, he's not the draper. you need you need more of like if we're looking for a young halfjewish stars at least like you need like a shame energy to be the young person. But Crumboltz is like Crumbolt is definitely the Sterling Brother Sterling.
29:37 >> It's his family firm. >> And you know, basically everything is the same except you can't mix meat and dairy. >> That's it. You >> can't mix it. No, keep kosher. You can't >> Do you keep kosher? You don't do that, right? Yeah. >> How long have we know each other? >> You love having a steak with a glass of milk. >> I had one right before this podcast. You can tell by my energy. >> okay. So, that's like we we'll get back into Star City on Monday.
30:03 >> you love a game. >> I do love a game. >> I I don't know that we didn't really award each other points, so who knows who won, but if you guys have your own ideas for Star City shows, hit us up. Also, if you have any ideas over who won, make that very clear in the emails. I won't see them. >> Would you like to do Maximum Pleasure Guaranteed first or would you like to do Widow's Bay first?
30:23 >> You you you call it, man. We're staying on the Apple platform. >> You know what? Here's the problem with Widow's Bay, which is >> this will be the first problem. >> it is is now getting Is Widow's Bay too good? You know, like I almost >> Is that your concern? Well, you know, I I hate being like you texted me this because people aren't privy to this, but you were like, "So, it's just showing off now."
30:44 >> Yeah. >> And this episode, Your Baggage, which aired on I think Tuesday night, right? >> this week, >> written by Emma Ketchum and directed by Andrew D. Young. Andrew D. Young did the Mushroom Trip episode from a couple of weeks ago. >> He directed the Tim Robinson movie, Friendship, and they're big chair company vibes in this episode. basically is about every character confronting their past. Patricia with the boogeyman, Evan and Tom trying to come to grips with what happened to Evan's mother and Tom's wife, >> and Wick kind of going over a childhood trauma that split him up from Jerry, who works in the historical society and now has a a nice enough but annoying husband. and you know, this was obviously a bit broadcast when the previous episode ended with we got him, it's it's all good. And there's a great moment at the beginning of this episode that was kind of reminded me of Pulp Fiction when they're in the diner and they're kind of like they're wearing the clothes that they >> the banana slugs t-shirts and they're like, you know, just kind of at peace before there's an armed robbery. But I I almost am like getting to the point with this where I'm like I don't really have any notes, man. You guys are able to every week do an homage piano to a great American either subgenre or explicitly a film.
32:08 >> the monster of the week thing continues to work seamlessly. The running time of the episodes makes none of them a chore. there is legitimate like this would be among the best slashers I have seen in years if they just made this into a movie but also is the funniest thing I have seen in a long time is watching Kate Flynn run from an incredibly slow but persistent >> slasher who is the incarnation of Jason Vorhees and Michael Myers.
32:38 >> Yes. >> What did you think of this episode? >> I want to I feel like I I loved everything about it. I am not historically a fanboy of any kind, but I believe I wrote Helya Patricia in my notes. Like I was on Twitter in 2014 >> when she had the shotgun because it felt so good. And then her holding the shotgun on the hopefully dead, not undead body of the boogeyman throughout his cremation process was incredible.
33:05 >> so I am just loving it and I am a fan full stop. But I always want to engage with a show also in the myriad ways in which it just impresses me. And a moment ago I was I was half kidding but I was talking about like showrunners saying like how do we make it story because you can have all the good ideas in the world and you can have all the speculation and thematic dream making but how do you do it communicate it practically because that's actually what the job is. And so two examples of this episode are just remarkable to me and what Katie Dippled, who's the creator and showrunner, is able to accomplish in by making these decisions that seem obvious or seem simple once they're done well, but actually many many shows, good shows struggle to find them week to week it dazzles me. So one number one would be where are we in the real time story and how can we take advantage of that moment? Mhm.
34:01 >> So you could look at the fact that they've dispatched the ancient evil supposedly at the end of the last episode and think of it maybe in a way where you're like greedy to get on to the next thing. You're worried about a lull. You want to show the audience. You want but no one's seen the show yet. So this is entirely in your own head. And the fact that that she and her writers were like, "No, let's let them sit in a moment of happiness and peace and what does that look like?" And more importantly, not just what does it look like in terms of the comedy, what does it look like in terms of storytelling opportunity? What can we explore? Second point was the past, your baggage. I think I saw an interview that Katie did this week or one of the writers, I believe was Katie, saying that >> is this the script notes one that she did?
34:46 >> It could have been. I didn't listen to the whole thing. I just saw the I I just saw this as a takeaway. But that init the the big shift in the episode that made it click for them was that they were going to tell Patricia's story with a boogeyman in flashback and then they realized not to do that. And that unlocked everything in the episode because it connected it to the forward momentum. It's a smart choice after backto-back episodes, one of which was a giant flashback and one of which was about an ancient evil. But then the execution to make Patricia in real time complaining about her takeout order and then running screaming out of her house from a masked killer with a knife make that feel both like tonally and emotionally and narratively consistent with Tom and Matthew Reese's really affecting performance. Him >> weeping over the fate of his deceased wife.
35:38 >> Yeah. >> How do you do that in a way? But they do they it does not feel like whiplash to go between those story lines. >> There was two really lovely surprising in the hands of another show would not have maybe gone this way moments that I wanted to throw at you and that I think it ties to what you're saying here. The Matthew Reese the Tom and Evan conversation is something that you could draw out for episodes and for all I know because of the thunderstorm and the terror of the island like Matthew Reese is going to go or Tom's going to go back on his promise to take Evan to Boston. I assume he will.
36:14 >> I'm glad it didn't happen in this episode. But Evan basically being like, "I get it." Like when when when his dad explains to him what happened and show and he's got these letters and he's like, "You shouldn't have hid this from me." And he, you know, Tom is like, >> "It's it would make me sadder than I already am for you to know what happened to your mother." >> Yep. >> and Evan kind of forgives him. And also they have like a hug like like there is like a genuine moment there.
36:46 >> And most other shows would be like now these two are are angry at each other. So Evan is going to put himself in danger so that Tom has to save him so that they can realize the true spirit of Christmas. So that's one thing. >> The show has the confidence and fearlessness of something like they're they're not afraid to resolve story. Yes. Because there's a belief that they carry rightfully so that there is more story to mind.
37:07 >> There's also like the kooky Patricia stuff. >> Mhm. when she shows up at the book club and Chrissy, is that who it is? I think who or Chris gives her like the riot act and is like, "You're just insane and that's why nobody's your friend and like you're just so weird and bye bye." And then Patricia tases her >> and she's like, "I'm sorry. She's the worst. She's just the worst there." It's just great that you give a character like Patricia like fullbodied POV to be like, "I know I'm weird, but like she is a you She sucks.
37:40 >> The sometimes the other lesson I think from successful rooms is sometimes all of the work that you do is in pursuit of the simplest solution. >> Yeah. >> And you can feel in the same way you can top chef judge can taste when dough has been overworked. You can tell when a show has been bigrained too much. And I'm glad you mentioned the Tom scene. I circled that like the line about the pictures. They make me sadder than I already am is a thunderclap. Like that is that is such simple writing, but it is >> everything. It's all you need to know as an audience. It's all Evan needs to hear. And I also think like we are under when we've been praising I know we've praised him last week. We've been praising all the great character performers, but Kingston Roomie Southwick, who plays Evan, has such an interesting affect as as a performer where he he's very soft spoken and he underplays things in a way that is so refreshing for young actors, A, but B, it allows him to both express the anger and the resentment and the surprise and joy that was more childlike, but then more than anything else, it allows us, I think, to understand the forgiveness coming off of that line and all of that that story that resolution for now was started seven weeks ago.
39:00 >> Well, and also when you think about how this show started, this is another example of what we're talking about in terms of knowing how to pace character development rather than story. >> Yeah. A lot of other shows would have Tom and Wick at odds for like four episodes, five episodes, six episodes of like Tom is this buttoned up new money trying to like modernize the island. Wick is this myth mythbelieving old wacko who thinks that the fog carries a a demonic spirit and he is going to do everything he can. is going to keep setting off like the storm sirens and you know like that could have been the tension of these episodes for >> 3 hours 4 hours and then you could be like now Tom believes and now the second half of the season is going and instead Tom's pretty much in like he's like I don't really love the way we're going about doing this but I believe by the end of the second episode you know >> it it good character writing is yes ending.
39:59 >> Yes. >> So to your point about Patricia she is crazy but also Chris is the worst. Yeah. >> Wick is right, but also he's a weird, sad, lonely guy. Tom is a kind of a prick, but also deeply, deeply hurt and sensitive. And, you know, all of these things can be true. And if you embrace that, again, all this comes from a level of confidence. And I hope we can talk to Katie about it. I'm sure I've never met a showrunner who says, "I was quite confident about this." No one ever will. But I it it strikes me that more than anything else that this show is the product of enormous creative confidence and and on the part of Katie, but also on Hiro Marai and Andrew D. Young and every other director and performer we've we've called out like whatever the secret sauce is, they all understood the assignment.
40:48 >> do you know >> Yeah. >> Do you understand the macro? What is happening here? because you were able to kind of be like, " yes, you know, the there could be another and and the the lineage of the Warren family might actually extend to Evan or Patricia or whoever it is that we, you know, might be." I am so dazzled on an episode toep episode basis of with the not only the monster of the week but the homage of the week and how they are like >> doing a Jaws episode or doing a haunted house episode or doing a Halloween episode or doing a Wicker Man episode >> that I am actually a little bit behind >> on my >> So what what is going on here? Like Richard Warren made a deal with Satan, but maybe not to protect this island.
41:38 And now his lineage is cursed, but >> and so the curse will continue as long as the lineage lives on the island. >> And they thought they ended the lineage with Richard Warren, but now it would seem that did not happen. >> No. So my assumption is that Evan is the lineage and this creates an issue of Tom wants to take him off the island, which will kill him, but Wick and others may want to kill him.
41:58 >> and that that would be that would be being the part of the lineage would indicate that Tom is not. It's that his mom was. >> Yes. >> Okay. And then >> a matriarchal line if you will. >> And just in terms of the way that these different spirits get activated like so for the boogeyman that's just like hey if you every day that goes by >> something is going to happen until you guys end this. the less I know about the the Tik Tok of that, not the website, the like clock, the happier I am. I don't want an answer as to why the boogeyman was activated the day after Richard War, you know, I I I don't even even as we reach the point in the series, which is probably the same time it would happen in a movie, where the metaphor goes away.
42:48 >> Mhm. you know, like I think there's it's it's a it's a trope of this sort of storytelling where it's like the boogeyman does represent, you know, adolescence or insecurity or whatever and no one believes in it but until it starts slashing everybody and then it just becomes an action movie. >> We are at that point, but I don't really want to know and I'll be very curious to see how the show handles a resolution in the short term while still being invested in >> this being a boogeyman of the week next week. Fair enough. I I want to ask you before we move on, what made this in in your mind an excellent evocation of the silent, slow masked knife killer?
43:30 >> I think it's the setting. There's something very Hadenfield about the the streets of >> Widows Bay >> of Widows Bay. the way D. Young kind of shot that scene where it's got evocations of I I think definitely the first Halloween and maybe even the second maybe the second where there's there's a lot of like screaming and crying and banging on doors and people turning their lights out and people like ignoring the the the hysteria happening outside their house.
43:56 >> Kitty Genevies. >> Yeah. And and a little bit of that. And I thought that the just when you think he's dead, he's not. He pops back up stuff. the, you know, the the scene with the ambulance drivers was amazing where it's like, "Hey, welcome back, pal." He's like slashes at his throat. So, there was just a real the the thing that you would be the the biggest hallmark is the slow, methodical pace of the slasher that seems to always keep up with the running, screaming victim. and then Patricia turning into the final girl in the in the in the last few minutes and hilariously holding a shotgun on him in the ambulance. And then in the >> It's amazing.
44:37 >> not sure exactly how that cleared >> all all barriers of like investigation to the point of cremation that night. But >> I'm okay with it. >> I'm all for an expedited municipal. >> Also, Basher was on painkillers. >> that's right. you know, the little character moments of him in the convenience store being like, I have to eat this year and my wife doesn't want me to. Like, there's just a humanity that exists in every frame of the show that's not just serving the how can we frame this correctly. But because I'm a relative novice, which is to say I'm too scared to watch those movies. I didn't know that it would be possible for no one to be inside of the mask.
45:16 >> Oh, yeah. It's it can be a spirit. >> Do you know what I Like because there's the scene the wick scene is interrupted or it ends with him seeing that someone has broken in and stolen the stolen the murderer's mask which is a cool thing to have on display. >> So I my mind was wondering I thought maybe someone had been >> either had always been the boogeyman and re re-energized or someone had been like captured by the spirit. So I didn't know if the mask was going to come off and she'd shot Dale.
45:43 >> Yeah. >> You know or someone from the office. I'm glad it wasn't Jeff Hiller or something. >> That's Dale. That's what I meant. That's what I thought was going to be in there. >> oh, I got confused with Dale Dicki. That's why >> Dale Dicki who play I did the same thing. Who plays Rosemary? >> Yeah. Did you have any comments on Shell Basher's late breaking pregnant wife who is about to give birth and >> hopefully not on the island >> and Patricia's like, we got to get you off the island.
46:07 >> It's just it's just >> but there's a thunderstorm coming. >> It's just good plotting. Let's talk a little bit about Maximum Pleasure Guaranteed, which Blink and You Miss It is now up to episode four >> and we missed it. We were behind. >> Yes. On Apple TV. This is a new series from >> David J. Rosen. >> David J. Rosen, who's worked on Hunters, has worked on Citadel, has worked on Sugar. >> Who wrote the novel I Just Want My Pants Back.
46:31 >> I don't know that >> 20 years ago. >> What is that? >> It was like a young adult novel about living in New York and hooking up with chicks. and that it was turned into briefly into an MTV series executive produced by Doug Lyman. Lasted one season. >> Okay, cool. does he get his pants back? >> I can't tell you that. You might watch it. >> this one stars Tatiana Mazlani as Paula, a magazine fact checker going through a rough divorce and custody battle who blows off steam one night having cam sex with a guy named Trevor.
47:00 >> Not one night. Seems like it's ongoing. >> I think it's I'm saying one night. Oh, you're setting up a fight. >> She happens. Yeah. >> Oh. Oh. Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt. >> >> you're accurate. >> I was like, don't put some respect on that relationship. >> And during this experience that they're having together through their screens, he gets attacked on screen. and Paula sees this, but it becomes apparent that this attack was part of a scam. And then it becomes apparent that this scam has gone haywire and Trevor has been killed. Paula investigates and pulls at a thread that undoes her life.
47:33 >> So, you watched two of them? >> I watched two. I watched let's I'll say three. I am I I started the fourth one. >> what did you think? >> I really really enjoyed what I watched especially the pilot. David Gordon Green directed it and I really appreciated I really appreciated something that I think is hard to pull off in this contemporary moment of TV which is that it was it's highly stylized. It is screen dependent. I would say that this may be the most successful product integration show that Apple has had in a number of years. And I don't mean that as like a backhanded compliment. the show correctly uses the most annoying Apple ringtone to be annoying. the show does depend on FaceTiming on MacBooks and having your phone available at all times in ways that feel relevant.
48:27 but I think it's hard, it's a hard needle to thread to have something that is frenetic and highly stylized and about, you know, the collision of crime into a normal existence, but also feel like there someone is keeping someone's touching grass in terms of trying to remember at all times who this character is and who she wants to be and what her relationship is with her ex-husband played by friend of the pod Jake Johnson with her Tik Tok trend dancing daughter Hazel and and her and her co-workers and her life. So, I I really appreciated the way the entry point for the story, the style in which it was done, but mostly the fact that I was I felt like it was focused on the right half of that equation >> throughout the first episode. I'll also say that like another very contemporary thing that I see with a lot of these shows is we collectively are getting better and better at premise and asking cool questions and then when pilots become series that's when the real work starts. And so in watching episode two I was like okay I now I see the shape of the storytelling taking place and that was a bumpier transition but it's harder work you know. Yeah >> to go from one to the other. I think I see what you're saying. You know, the the rest of the episodes almost feel closer to like whatever the Apple version of the Safy Brothers is, you know, like where I think it's more or less like 80% to 20% unrelenting tension, anxiety. How the hell is she going to get out of this situation?
50:03 >> You've got an interesting So, visually and tonally, I feel like it really ramps up in the second, third, fourth episode. They also, weirdly, not weirdly, but they are trying to have kind of a couple of different treatments of the mystery story. For one thing, Murray Bartlett plays quite obviously, I think, the killer, I would assume. I mean, we don't know. >> Yeah, we don't know. We don't know more, but he is introduced one way and then pretty quickly established as the other.
50:28 Murray Barllet from Looking and White Lotus fame. Great actor. >> He's great in this. >> it's cool how they split the mystery, quote unquote, or the investigation to the extent that there is one. So Paula is trying to get to the bottom of what's just happened with with Trevor, but Murray Bartlett's Frank character is trying to investigate Paula, you know, and so you've got these sort of two convergent mysteries. There's two things that I think are not rubbing me the wrong way, but I'll be interested if we continue with this show to kind of check in on. One is there's a little like Apple expansion pack happening as the episodes go on where we keep bringing in supporting characters.
51:12 >> Yeah. >> and and now it's like we're up at like eight, you know, now I would say that the show seems pretty cutthroat so far in terms of endangering people and having stakes and it's pretty cool. So, there's that and then there's also just they're playing around with flashbacks and you were talking about the Widows Bay thing with the idea of showing Patricia's boogeyman experience as a flashback and instead doing it in the present tense if you can do that.
51:41 >> They're doing a lot of like cliffhanger and then flashback to explain the cliffhanger. >> Not a lot, but they've done it a couple of times on Maximum Pleasure. And I don't know if I love it because it turns into a little bit of like we're built we're wrapping the story around the concept of a cliffhanger rather than we're wrapping the story over how a cop would find out about information or how somebody would be like I'm in a tough situation. I need to be >> transparent about this but obscure that >> and instead it seems like I'm on a TV show. So, wouldn't it be cool if at the end of an episode you found out this isn't my first dead body that I've encountered? Or wouldn't it be cool if we found out like you think that this woman is like this, but she's actually like that because we went back. You know, it's it's just it is it is a way of telling a story, but it it it isn't quite worked for me on this one.
52:34 >> It's funny or it's annoying depending on your perspective to be TVrained enough as we are and maybe many of our listeners are to see things come in and out of fashion narratively. I think and and how long it takes for the messages to be sent like the tipping point of exciting scene 6 weeks earlier the amount of time it took for creators to realize a everyone else was doing it and b aud audiences were rebelling against it there's a long tale because then it takes years of producing things to move on from that similarly like something like DTF which you know we engaged with briefly but like enough to say there is a similar there's some similar things at play here >> in terms of >> a surprising maybe not a murder in the way you think told through flashback with quirky cops in that case it was Richard Jenkins in this case it's Dolly de Leon who was in triangle of sadness >> >> there is a we are in the midst of a golden era of cam content and only fan stuff >> both I I meant we are >> Margo pleasure and euphoria yeah >> but also what we've been up to.
53:44 >> Well, only for the two of us though. We're just straight straight. Hey, man. Yeah, we don't. Exactly. >> The watch after dark is actually just Andy and I camming. >> What's fun is that like there was a period of time when Tim Smail wouldn't text. He would only communicate over signal because he was worried about, you know, being hacked. And so that's why we have stopped texting and calling. We only communicate over cam soda. >> That's right.
54:04 >> Just the two of us. >> Remember chat roulette? >> Remember? I got I'm still holding on to that. Anyway, yeah. And so I I would say that I appreciated the use of screens as mitigating factors and intimacy and the the chat stuff on the show because it is a well because a the relationship that that Paula has with her cam boy is gentle and there's other layers to it to be unwrap, but it is like emotional and interesting and surprising. And then there was a great scene where she's talking to her colleagues at work and it's one of those like hinge moments of like what do we gain by spilling it and what do we gain by withholding and she's like I was being scammed by a camera that I had become inappropriately connected to and they're like oh yeah that's the most interesting thing you've ever said and they hug her. you know one of those that the the boy is the Julia Louie Drifus's son.
54:58 >> I didn't know. You know I'm on Nepo watch. He's good watching. Is he in the campion kind of like I'll allow it or >> he seems like he was raised right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So I'll thank you for asking. I'll allow it. But we are monitoring the situation. >> I saw then the Times did a piece about or maybe it was Wall Street Journal did a piece about Leon Black's son who's in charge of like a shadowy but very important like United States government investment fund kind of thing. And I was like, "How'd he get that job?"
55:26 >> Just, you know, he worked harder than everyone else. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I the o I I'll I'll swing back to the positive, but the other thing that I was the only other thing that I was slightly bumping on and this is not this is actually not criticism. This is a reflection of getting a show made for Apple TV, which is I struggled with Tatiana Maslani being a woman who is struggling with all aspects of her life, including her appearance. She is a lovely, charismatic person who reads as young. she's certainly plausible as a 40-year-old woman with a like I'm not arguing her acting chops or whether I could buy it, but in a different world, this is the Melanie Linsky show and and I'm like I it clicks into place a little bit more, but that's not Apple's business model.
56:11 >> I have not you know, she obviously broke onto the scene with Orphan Black. >> You haven't really seen her very much, huh? >> Tat should I have? Did you I'm just saying like there are actors who are big but if they are big on shows like I don't think >> I watched orphan black a season or two I thought maybe you were orphan black and she-Hulk ignorant >> I am shehulk ignorant I find that she has like the appropriate kinetic energy for something that's this you know you need the rhythm of the show she's >> and she's athletic and there there's things that demand her climbing through skylights and jumping off I mean the the first episode or was it the second episode where she gets the tin can in her arm is crazy. cool. It's It's like a It's a cool show, you know, with as with everything.
56:56 There's like a do I urgently feel the need to keep up with this or like is this something? I don't I don't really know what the the alchemy is anymore of like what eclipses that was fine watching it for three or four episodes versus like this is now what I'm watching for 10 weeks. I think this is this one for me stands out a little bit because of there's a there's there's surprise like I think Jake is playing slightly against type. Yes. And I think he's doing a great job.
57:23 >> I think that one of the hard things to navigate in, >> you know, the last 30 years of television, which are essentially shows about people with families being drawn to the dark side, is how do you balance the family stuff? I think the stuff with is Hazel is the daughter's name in this. I think that's being I think it's pitched at the right place for me to believe that so far anyway through the episodes I've seen, it hasn't tipped fully into genre. It is still attempting to be someone. The most fantastical elements of the show so far aren't the crime and violence. The most fantastical elements of the show so far are that a she drives around New York all day and b she's still employed as a fact checker.
58:02 >> Do you think they shot this in New York? >> Yeah, I think so. >> Not by New York. >> Why not? Your New York included magazines. So, >> yeah. No, I don't mean that. It's just like the the traffic situation seems pretty pretty relaxed. And is this set in Rididgewood? >> It's Queensy. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Keep an eye on that. >> Aren't you happy to see like that they're still that magazines are still employing a vibrant factchecking department before Barry Weiss takes over as editor-in chief?
58:27 >> I am. >> I thought that was cool. >> I hate to do this. >> It's a fun show. the only thing I was thinking while I was watching it, because I I think there are several shows, I just can't think of one off the top of my head that take this kind of like unbelievably tense pre premise and they're just like, and now let's tell it over the course of 10 episodes. >> But I was watching this and, you know, as I think about how Widows is employing monster of the week or how The Pit is doing a medical procedural but with durational storytelling over the course of a day. So, you can have some new school ideas about making TV.
59:04 >> I almost feel like I'd be more curious about the version of this show that is >> Paula solving this whole thing >> in an episode and then the rest of the season is Paula, private detective, helping people who've been scammed. >> Wow. Look at you. Look at you. I don't I wonder if that's a more durable repeatable like idea >> or is that something that David J Rosen has considered if he gets to do season and I' I've widows I have been looking at different TV shows and being like >> was this written for TV was this and was this written to be something that's exciting to watch every week other than how is the story going to end >> well 100% I mean it Katie Dippold of Widows Bay worked in Parks and Wreck and I think it is one of the enduring legacies of Mike Shur's television shows is that he found a sweet spot. It's different in the 30-minute realm or the now the 35minut realm. A sweet spot of you can you can tune you can tune in week to week but there is a larger spine of a serialized story and I'm not afraid of pushing towards it. but you're not gonna be you're never going to see an episode that's just connective tissue.
60:18 Whereas at least on one episode maximum pleasure guaranteed is more of the new school approach of we are going to light a match in the first episode and it will burn through. >> Yes. And dynamite happens in episode 10. >> But within that framing the show that made me think of speaking of another person who could have starred in it is Run which was the the one season Phoebe Wellerbridge show with Donal Gleason and Merritt Weaver. And that show started with similarly like an enormously grabby and exciting premise, but I didn't feel like and I feel like the marketplace agreed with me. It didn't have the conviction or the gas or the horses to make it a season to to earn that that beginning. This maximum pleasure guaranteed seems more successful to me for that type.
61:05 >> Fair enough. let's hit TC real quick, Top Chef. before we get out of here, I just want to tell you a personal anecdote since >> Oh, >> it's culinary corner. It's culinary corner before it's Top Chef. >> Okay. >> So, I've been kind of seduced by these Instagram and YouTubetubes of like clean out your pantry pastas or clean out your pantry like, "Hey, do you have capers and this? >> Let me >> look what you can do."
61:31 >> So, I was like, I have some like Fly by Jing instant noodles. Mhm. >> What's in my pantry/f fridge that I can like get going and and and and create like add some rotisserie chicken >> and emulsify with pasta water. >> why >> we'll get to that. >> Okay. I mean, I know that that's supposed to happen. Do you do that with like ramen, too? >> Well, I don't make ramen. I don't make ramen at home. I only go to like a true like Kodawari shop where like each ingredient is made. But this isn't about me.
61:57 >> I'm out. This isn't about me. >> I quit. I don't want to do this show anymore. >> Sorry. >> so I was like, "Okay, I'm going through it. And I was like, "Okay, I got the rotisserie chicken. I'm looking for like kind of a an acid, maybe like a pickle kind of thing, >> but I was like, I could use some green in here." >> And I came across some frozen peas in our freezer. >> Okay.
62:20 >> >> my wife historically, this is is I'm not violating HIPPA by saying she has a a bum knee and often needs to ice her knee. And these peas are her knee knee peas. >> On Reddit, these are >> so I go on Reddit. The expiration date for these peas is November of 2025. >> Oh, it's not it's not as bad as I thought. >> And I should note that they have been thought out upwards of 25 times.
62:50 >> Okay, here we are. So that's kind of like what is like what is your age versus your real age? >> Yeah. And so on Reddit, of course, you can be like, "These peas are past their expiration date. Should I eat them? Can I eat them?" And everybody's like, "Yes, that's just a suggestion." And they they've been frozen. >> And I get like pretty deep into the process. >> You have your misen plus and your prep and your >> and and you know, I've kind of like scraped the freezer burn off the peas and >> individually. No, but like I kind of like watched them a little bit to draw them out a little bit.
63:23 >> And then I go back to the Reddit thread and I was like, it seemed like that went on for a while. Let me see what they're talking about. >> And apparently there's a whole thing about boooo peas. Peas that people keep just for >> Oh, this is a thing. >> Yeah. And they're like, don't eat the boooo peas. >> Because that's where lististeria can get in when you're thawing out and freezing and thawing out and freezing. So, just as a public service announcement, I stopped this. I mean, this was an incredibly boring dinner because I did not have a green and I didn't really have a pickle or an acid for it. It was just basically chicken with chicken noodles, >> sweet and spicy ramen noodles.
64:02 >> I'm not mad at this, >> but I would say that it was dull and I almost got lististeria and my wife was pretty pissed off that I used her boo boo. >> Yeah. How's her knee? >> She's fine. But she was like, "You got to get next time you go." >> She finished this dinner you cooked for her and tried to stand up. >> Oh, no. She didn't. She was out. I was This was a solo like >> She didn't You if you ever The frozen peas, you know, they they cycle through real, you know, you you know, like on the other videos we watch on Instagram where people are seeing how the Guinness is drinking this evening >> when they're just like people have been hitting it so it's like it's fresh on the tab and the lines are clean.
64:39 >> Yeah. You want to let 12 guys go first. >> When like these like when that like giant dude Prime Mutton is like the lads have been drinking it into form and I'm like what is the form? Is it physically your form? Because that is what I'm most worried about despite my love of a fine stout. >> Oh my god. >> Anyway, >> that >> the last >> the frozen peas in my house are constantly eaten into form because and I will you're going to say this came from me with my Kotawari ramen, but it did not. My children who have relatively conservative pallets, I would say, i.e.
65:09 they're just kids, normal kids about this. One of their favorite snacks is frozen peas, not heated. They like bowls of frozen peas to just pop in. >> How's that texture-wise? Is that good? >> I mean, have you ever had a frozen grape? >> Yeah. It's not my favorite. >> No. So, I I don't share this passion with them. But I'm just letting you know that the peas are eating into form constantly. So, if you need a bag for any purposes or if needs one, >> will they hit some frozen peas, roll it back up, and throw it back in the freezer?
65:39 >> No. Chill a whole bag on a sitting. First of all, this this presupposes that they are helping themselves and doing anything independently despite their advanced age. >> I I have noticed >> Yeah, >> you you've got some notes for your kids recently. >> Sure. >> About about their contributions to the to the house. >> And let me tell you, they are receptive to those notes. There is nothing they like more than when old Pops says, "Maybe you could have picked." You think when they go out into the world in a couple of years like the the light switch is going to flip and they're going to be like, I know how to do this.
66:13 >> This is what we all hope. This is what we all pray for. I don't I try to think that like cuz because when you're like one one thing that young parents come up against a lot is like their kids come home from school and they act insane and then there's a worry that they are acting this way in school and then good teachers or lying teachers will say >> they behave they behave all day and then being home is like then the the shackles come off they get it all they get it all out you know it's rumring every day at 4 p.m. So, my hope is that they would not, let's say, leave Chip Witch rappers decorating the window sill in the homes of their friends or people they respect, right? I don't know. But the the But all the way back to your point about the frozen peas.
66:57 >> no, no, I I I take the bag out >> frozen. I pour some frozen into a bowl >> back in there. >> Seal it up. >> Yeah. Yeah. Put it back in. >> Okay. Good to know. Top Chef, the penultimate episode of season 23, which Andy and I have had a fair amount of notes for. Yeah. I don't have a ton of like nitpicks about this one. It was my favorite episode of the season, I think.
67:18 >> Yeah, fair. >> I realized that it's sort of like the Matrix where you're like you're using your eyes for the first time. >> I felt like the judges were basically like food. >> Like they were so delighted. >> They liked everything >> that they were like finally real cooking. Yeah, we got down to >> Sherry, Lawrence, Roa, Jonathan, and they were asked to do basically a plating exercise where they could choose these sort of exotic or funky delivery systems for their >> think this is after the stupid 20 questions thing.
67:54 >> yeah, I mean I I enjoyed it cuz it just seemed funny that they would be like spinach and he's like no. And they were like I'll put some spinach. >> Like I'm paying very close attention. and it was very funny that they all got mad at Jonathan for asking questions that they thought were stupid. >> those questions were dumb as hell. >> Well, I don't really even know what like it doesn't seem like a big deal that he asked if it was side dish. But like I am often the person who asks a question where somebody's like, "Why are you asking that?"
68:18 >> Who does that in interviews? >> No, not in interviews. >> Well, Jesse Armstrong once. No, I'm just kidding. You've never You've never done that. it just seemed like based on the judges reactions to the food that this was at a high high level and they pushed each other. >> Even Jonathan who >> as soon as he was like I am making bread and butter I was like thanks for playing. >> Also I want to put a pumpkin on a candlestick.
68:44 >> Well I the only tension for the episode was really like is Lawrence going to accidentally up his rice wrappings his his sort of >> the rice rolls. the rice rolls is the because he's making Carolina and it didn't steam and >> but that wasn't the issue was that he the episode implied or at least tried to create drama from the implication that there was some with the oven not intentional >> Jonathan used it first >> and it lingered on Jonathan being like I set it up for you bro >> and he's like it's all good it's going to take a few minutes to cool down to the steaming setting and then you're good and then Lawrence walked back over like 5 minutes later and was like this this thing is not >> so then he had to kind of like rather brilliant ly like ad hoc multiple traing in pots.
69:27 >> Yeah. And it just made it a little bit thicker, I guess. >> Yeah, that was the drama. >> I thought that each one of those winning dishes or the dishes that passed through to the final three were amazing looking. roas especially on the tree bark. I don't know that I would want to eat off of tree bark, but it would looked really cool. >> Someone hasn't been to Noma. >> not certainly not. You know what I mean?
69:52 >> What an ally. So, I I I stand with my brothers on the line. >> Mhm. >> what did you think of this episode? >> I mean, you're right. It's a shame that it took 14 weeks to get to an episode in which the challenge is creative and is met with with a an elevation of execution. Like that's what the that's what the show is supposed to be. >> Yeah. It wasn't like and you have 12 seconds to do it, >> but but also like it was challenging and they elevated their game. They rose to the challenge, which hadn't really happened consistently. And I generally say a version of this every year, which is like unlike some more drama forward competition shows, excellence begets excellence on Top Chef. Like the best episodes are ones where Tom is happy, where everyone has done a good job and the conversation is more about like nitpicks rather than like how obvious it was that someone just face planted.
70:42 that said, it was obvious Jonathan was going home even when it was revealed he did a very good job because the ambition of what he was doing was so much less than what everyone else is doing and the plating was kind of silly. >> Do you think Tom's been a little bit cranky this season? >> Well, I think he should be. I think there's every reason to be cranky, but but the counterpoint is when he's really happy and Kristen's like, "Oh, happy Tom is here and he seems quite >> engaged. He still can be engaged when it's all going well." I think the criticism remains the criticism which is there is something that just feels claustrophobic and off about the penultimate episode to send people to the finals. And I'm not even sure if they traveled for the finals. Usually they're like next week or they tell them like you're going to Paris or you're going to or star city if you can get a brand activation like >> correct me if I'm wrong but they didn't say anything about where they were going and it looked like they didn't do >> they used to take a long break like four to six weeks.
71:37 >> Oh I think they take a break because I think I noticed I always I always enjoy when people come and they have like a slightly different look. >> Yes. That said, it will be another windhorse fingers like if they just didn't travel and they're just like still in the Carolinas somehow about the budget things because this is the penultimate episode and we're supposed to be this crowning achievement before we get to >> the the the the obviously challenging but also the known quantity of make the best meal you've ever made. Yes. And in the episode to send people to that great opportunity, they played 20 questions in the studio and then picked out plates in the studio and then filming picked up in a relatively claustrophobic restaurant with the great John Yao of KO here in LA being like, you did a good job.
72:22 >> Yeah, >> it feels so small and that's a bummer. And maybe that's as I say every week, like that's the reality of it now. or maybe you tell me. Maybe this is just a nitpick when the execution was good. >> I think that the when when the cooking feels like it's push like I feel like those three those four chefs, but specifically the three that advanced >> were actually pushing each other. >> Like I think that there's even >> there's this awareness that Roa has momentum and that she's and and that she's won a bunch of things. There's like I think Sherry is actually like beyond her cooking like an interesting television character who clearly has a lot of self-confidence and is a little bit I don't know is she prickly? I don't I >> my kids hate her.
73:10 >> Okay. >> Sorry Sher, but like I'm watching the season for the first time finally with the key. >> But I think she's like I think I can win this and like I'm going to kind of operate from that assumption and and and I just you know this this season >> is peing at the right time. >> This season has had a lot of like false starts. It's had a lot of like Pratt falls. It's had the weird last chance kitchen situation. So, it's nice to see it ending with like three people whose food I would want to eat and who I think are are pushing each other. We should wrap it up there. thanks to everyone for listening and we'll be back on Monday with some Star City and maybe like a you know, a couple of other surprises, but I'm not exactly sure.
73:48 >> Well, there's stuff we haven't like we haven't we started Legends, we didn't finish it. there's a couple other shows that I'd like to check out like Amadeas. So, there's there's things in >> I have a really hot recommendation for you. >> You've watched something? >> I did. I don't know if you can handle it. >> I mean, that's fair. >> Are you watching Dark Wizard? >> Oh, I should watch that. Yeah. So, >> so first of all, it's seriously scratching my 100 foot wavitch.
74:11 >> Yes. Same filmmakers or just HBO documentary? HBO documentary about a mountain climber, a free solo climber, Dean Potter, >> and his rivalry with Alex Honold. >> And it just in terms of like the aesthetic of everybody's wearing Patagonia and climbing in Yusede in the mid200s, >> it's awesome. I I will say no more, but it is tense. >> I can probably handle it. I was knee-jerk avoiding it because >> my wife's like palms were sweating watching it.
74:40 >> You just get a frozen peas. I don't know. Just Dr. house, whatever you need. I I I selfishly was like, I feel like I've done enough with Potters and Dark Wizards and HBO recently, but now what? But I said that >> glibly not knowing it was a documentary about mountain climbers at all. >> Yeah. >> So, I think that's a good wreck. People have been talking about it. >> okay. So, we'll see you guys on Monday.