Is The Future Customer Experience AI Talking To AI? — With Tony Bates

0:00 What will business look like as we use AI agents to communicate with companies and they use them to communicate right back? Let's talk about it with Genesis chairman and CEO Tony Bates in a conversation brought to you by Genesis. Tony, welcome. >> Hey, it's great to be here. >> So, let's talk a little bit about Genesis and customer experience as we get started. So, Genesis, for those unfamiliar, it's a customer experience platform. it's powered more than 33 billion conversations annually. 2.9 billion ARR growing at 30% with C with customers including ESPN, Ferrari, Virgin Atlantic, HSBC. So, right in the middle of it.

0:36 >> Yep. >> And so, customer experience u for those unfamiliar about a decade ago, the idea that you could speak to the same customer from different divisions like sales, marketing, customer service, that didn't exist. Nope. technology has made it possible that a company can now get a view of a customer across all those different divisions and actually speak to them as one company even if you know they're approaching different facilities. >> Yeah, that's correct. Yeah. Yeah.

1:04 >> And and it's gotten to the point where Gartner has said something like 89% of the way that a company differentiates themsel is through customer experience. Not necessarily product or price, but the way that customers feel about you. And right now we're in this moment and we're going to have three conversations about this from your experience event here in Las Vegas. But we're right now in this really interesting moment where it's gone from a place where you can have a a sort of a coherent view of a customer in software to like now generative AI is just turning that and and really helping that transformation in crazy ways.

1:40 >> Yeah, absolutely. I mean I would say for customer experience and I talked about it on stage in my keynote. I think we're at the most consequential shift we've seen in a generation. and I think there's two things that are spurring that. The first one is what you already talked about. As we sort of got our platform to the cloud, it allowed us to get access to a lot more different interconnected systems. And so to your point, you could actually for the first time get more of a broader view of of the business you were facing, right?

2:13 Think about all the different real-time touch points that you do have with with any brand. They may have a you know a retail arm. So you actually have a physical touch point. They have an app. they have customer support. They have their e-commerce site. And so you started to get to this level. But the problem that happened is is that as consumers, we want the best possible experience, right? And we're going to measure every company not by the comparison of bank A or bank B. we're going to measure every company by the best possible experience that we've had. And so we already started to see, you know, this expectation go going up. We do a survey every year where we go out to consumers, not to our c our customers, and just say, you know, how do you feel about customer experience? And 30% of those consumers said, I will leave that brand if I have one bad experience. So the stakes were already up. and what was great about that from our perspective is that it was becoming more of a boardroom conversation. But to your point and I think this really happened in the last year as generative AI tools you know the chat GPTs and the claudes and so on have been put in the hands of consumers. The shift that happened in the last year is we went from these kind of tools basically you know answering a question to understanding context. What I talk about is they have contextual intelligence. Right now you ask it a question, it remembers that remembers your preferences. It remembers you know the things that you're interested in. So it starts to know you. It actually starts to become kind of your your working memory. So now the stakes have gone up again. And consumers are saying, well, if I can get that from my personal AI that's, you know, maybe sitting right on your laptop there, why can't I get that from the brand? Because by the way, the brand has all these touch points >> right >> now. The challenge has been and and this is what we'll talk about a little bit more is that all that context is actually there in inside a company. If you actually think about it, you've got every they know what products you've built you've bought. They know you know the care cases, they know every time you've maybe called into the to the call center, but those systems have been fragmented for the most part. So that is the the stakes have raised, but the opportunity is massive. And that's really what we're talking about here.

4:31 >> Yeah, I'm pretty sure this is true that Disney, they measure the good moments you have in the park and the bad moments you have in the park. And they have actual sort of algorithms for this that they call a good moment, a magic moment, and a bad moment, a tragic moment. And I think the ratio is like you need 30 magic moments to make up for one tragic moment. >> Yeah. And obviously they built a business on providing this magical experience. And now it seems like all business is kind of coming to this realization that they need to do the same thing.

5:00 >> Yeah. I think the interesting part about it and and if you just go back a little bit, a lot of customer experience, customer service, customer support was actually built on the notion of do no harm in the last resort, if I can say it that way. It was and and it was actually often founded on the fact that you didn't have enough qualified people to help someone >> through their experience. Our industry sort of the traditional call center business all the metrics if you actually look at them they don't really talk about people they talk about cues they talk about hold times >> time to handle. Yeah, they talk about you know first contact resolution, but what really matters is what is that experience you have with a company?

5:48 Do you feel special? Do you feel like they know you? Right? Does does there have a sense from the company that they care about you? I talk about this a lot. It's that like people want to feel empathy, right? They want the company to feel like they understand where you're coming from. And and we'll talk more about this, I hope, with AI, we have an opportunity to make sure we do that in the right way. Hand off to a human when it makes sense. Use software for other types of tasks. And this is really, I think, a big opportunity ahead of us to do that. But this missing link came from an odd place. It came because you didn't have enough people, right? And so it kind of became an industry that was like, just make sure you don't make it worse. My view and I when I came to Genesis is let's turn that around. What about if we start thinking about how do we make it better?

6:36 How do we get the 30 magic moments for everyone? Difficult one, right? Yeah. And so, Genesis helps companies orchestrate, you know, these customer journeys through, you know, the different divisions that they're speaking with. but well, not even but and this is why this conversation is is really important for our channel and why I was excited to speak with you. >> there's an an entire industry. So, basically, I started covering when I was at ad age covering ad tech and marketing tech. I started covering customer experience like in early 2010s when this field started started emerging or maybe a little bit after but in the sweet spot when people started paying attention to it. and you know the idea that you would interact with the company was always based on the idea that it would be you as a human and you would interact with a human and I sort of preview this the entry point to our conversation. right now what's happening I think you know having been at this event and listened to the keynotes and spoken with your customers and partners is that this entire industry of customer experience is now broadening right building capabilities for people to speak with companies they can speak to a person but they can also have their sort of interaction with the company managed by a really smart AI something that like scales up the ability of the company to have competence you know across all touch points >> but what happens s when it's not me interacting with that company that's built this entire path for me to interact with with it but I send my AI out to a company how does that change the way that customer experience works and our companies prepared for that moment to happen?

8:13 >> Yeah, I think as I was saying you earlier we know this is coming. we two years ago I actually sort of put call it a a thought starter thought leadership piece which we called the the levels of experience orchestration. >> Mhm. >> And it's very sort of analogous to maybe you know sort of what's happened with self-driving. And the reality of where a lot of people are or companies are is in they're actually like in level one level two. And what I mean by that is that a lot of what they they first tried to do was assist the human but with predefined processes.

8:50 Right? So the early days of software was very simple. It was sort of like take away stuff that used to be, you know, manually switched around. So think about, you know, old old days switchboards where it's like literally, you know, oh, you call in and I I'll find the right expert. It was kind of the world of IVRs, you know, and so it's like push one for sales, like you push two for service or whatever. What happened next was that once we got for folks to the cloud, we could start to use some of the data to help build those processes, but they were still predefined. They were still kind of a tree, a decision. You hoped you got to the right place. You hoped you armed the person with the right tools and technologies. Now, as AI has has be has become, you know, we're not quite fully there for everyone, but has become more autonomous, it can now start to do a lot of these things and act on them for the first time. And so this is what we call level four. And we call this agentic orchestration. And that's a lot of what we've been talking about here.

9:47 To fast forward to where you're you're going though is level five. We call it universal orchestration. And I think that the world we're going to have is we're going to have absolutely human to human that will exist. There's so many use cases where you you need you know an expert who's going to be there have the right level of empathy and take care of you. We need to arm them with the tools. There's going to be human to AI. We're already seeing it, right? Repetitive tasks, things that are easy to do, but also knowing when to hand off. But to the point in in universal orchestration, you're going to see AI to AI. It's absolutely going to happen. Now, to your question, I think the way we think about it is this is going to work for an enterprise if you embrace an agentic operating model, right? It's not so much about the challenge of the AI, it's making sure that the AI does the right things and not the wrong things inside your business. And so what we focus on at the company, it's less about the technology.

10:45 It's more about the governance, the guard rails, making sure you you know how to hand off to a human if things are going wrong. what it can and can't see. you know, can you audit it? I mean we have some of the largest companies in the world in highly regulated industries right so so to your question I think it's going to happen but the same set of standards the same set of operating models will have to apply in exactly the same way that they do today when it's a human you know just to be very direct about it many financial institutions they have a customer support customer service agent there >> and they have things they can and say and things they can't say right they can't give investing advice and there's technologies and tools that will stop them actually saying that right that's why sometimes you have a delay or if you call in they say just so you know this is all being recorded you know they'll never be allowed to give out your credit card there's software there's technology doing that so I think the same principles will apply it will just be a new new way of thinking and a new way of interacting the one thing that is unknown of course is is where the business model will set out and I don't know that right because the AI that you have sitting here, you know, on on your desktop or you have in your phone, it is still going to have the challenge of working with those companies because people aren't going to just get move the the economics onto the desktop. I mean, this is the classic, you know, sort of problem we've seen forever between B to C versus B2B TOC. and so that has to play out. But absolutely, I think the technology can get there, but you still have to have the enterprise, the business have all of those guardrails, all of those pieces that we're putting in place today. Yeah.

12:31 So, for instance, if I send my agent, let's say, to a car dealership, right, just to use like an example that's been in the news, it doesn't matter if it's an agent or a human, whether you know I prod it or my agent prods it, the agent on the other side will have guardrails and governance in place. So when I ask it for a 30% discount and say disregard all previous instructions, it knows actually you probably shouldn't disregard all previous instructions and say if you want pricing talk to >> and and the agent on your side will have to be able to disclose like KYC >> and you know what your credit score and all of those other things. So it's the same exact principles. One of the things we talk about a lot and this is one of the big transformations to get AI really enabled deeply into a business is you have to embrace this idea of the hybrid workforce.

13:23 >> The hybrid workforce basically from my point of view is that AI is not your enemy. AI is your digital teammate, >> right? And the way that folks need to think about it inside their businesses is that it's one talent system. It's one set of resources. You have to on board the AI in the same way you do an information worker. You need to performance manage the AI in the same way you do a per, you know, an information worker. And that will happen all the way through to the consumer. The same principles, right? There's no there's going to be no shortcuts. You can't just shortcut a business to your point. When you're buying a car, there's a set of things you have to go through.

13:59 Yes, maybe you don't have to fill out all the forms. you don't have to go in person and, you know, walk through with the car salesman trying to sell you the extra, you know, carpets and the and cover or whatever. >> It would never do that. It would never do that. but I think the point I'm trying to make is the business model itself won't fundamentally change. The fluidity of how you interact with Bitwill. >> Yes. And so that a lot of that is on the supply side. which makes a lot of sense, but the demand side will also change the supply side, if you will.

14:28 so for instance, let's just keep running with this car dealership example. I think there's a good chance that the way that people buy cars is going to flip, right? I'm thinking a little bit about this, you know, open AI hugging face example. not that people are going to go hack the car dealership, but what it showed is that u, you know, when you have an agent swarm, they can do things that, you know, the companies that you're interfacing with aren't prepared for. Let's say it's not a hack, right? Let's say they're playing by the rules. what happens when I can, for instance, instead of, you know, making one call to a car company or a car dealership, I can have 17,000 agents contact every single one in the country.

15:11 Maybe everyone in the in the US and let's go to Canada too, right? There's the marginal cost will be so different. And then everything on the does it does everything on the company side change? for instance like do you treat like the fact that you're now going to probably get way more inquiries in the same way lead scoring probably changes because instead of a person being bounded by the amount of time they can spend you know researching and contacting companies it's it's unlimited to a degree.

15:40 >> Yeah. Although I think this example is already this isn't just an AI thing. This software has been out to do this for a very very long time. >> We're there already. >> Yeah. As you think about in many many ways, I mean, people have been combating bots that are, you know, coming in and just swarming social media networks just to kind of make sure they get enough clickthroughs and so on. So, I think companies are ready for that that kind of >> >> it's not attack's not even the right word, but just sort of that dynamic aspect of their business model.

16:10 >> But I think that the difference to your point is that you will be able to do a lot more upfront research. Yeah. >> Right. and that's very powerful in the hands of consumers, but I'm not sure that it's fundamentally going to change the business model. Companies have this problem today. You know, people there's there's ways that that whole compan has been built on just figuring out the best discount and then handing that like hello as an example, right?

16:35 and so I think that that is always going to be there. I don't think that fundamentally changed with with the technology. I do think that the thing you're touching on though is how consumers are going to interact with businesses will look different. >> Yeah. And that I think is not going to be how how we're attacking it right now if I can say it this way. >> So yeah, can you expand on that a little bit? What will the difference look like?

16:57 >> Well, I feel like on the user interface side of where we are >> we're kind of in our MS DOS moment right now. We haven't had our Windows moment. And I don't think that it's necessarily going to be a Windows interface, but typing into a chatbot or talking into a chatbot, which is fundamentally where we are today, is pretty rudimentary. you get great answers and so on. But if we're really going to have this this idea of universal orchestration where it's fluid, it's going to have to be embedded into all sorts of other applications.

17:32 It's going to have to have many different modalities. I mean, if we go back to sort of the the game changer of the iPhone, right, was once we went to a touch interface, we haven't seen a new interface in a long time, but a lot of what we see today is pretty much, I think, built around a kind of a developer mindset. It's the terminal expanded. And so, I want to make sure that's clear. To get to the next part of universal orchestration, as I call it, it's got to be very friction-free.

18:00 Otherwise, you'll go back to your normal operation. that moment hasn't happened yet. That's not something we focus on because we're obviously working with businesses, but I think to kind of get to to the the sort of end state where it's human to AI, AI to AI, human to human, that interface will also have to be very very fluid. >> Yes. And then let's go one step deeper and bring it back to what you're doing. so obviously we talked in the beginning companies are differentiating based off of the customer experience.

18:29 Does the bot experience matter? Like when I send my agent out to a bunch of different businesses, does is the bot going to pick the business that has the best experience to them or is it going to be, you know, effectively, you know, price product? Is that going to matter more? And then and then more than that, how do you manage customer experience? Let's say we go back to this level five where it's agent to agent.

18:56 >> Yeah. So actually what a company needs to do is not necessarily I'm going in different different directions here but I think it's important it's not necessarily manage the experience of the bot if it's not the bot experience but you're actually doing it one like a skip level right it's like how do I communicate to the bot so the bot communicates to the human and they have a good experience >> yeah I mean first I'd say all experiences matter any real time touch point >> is a moment of truth >> whether it's software to software or not because ultimately the heristics that drive you know your contextual intelligence of your AI they're going to then I guess be matched to the scoring of how you think about the experience you have right that's the interesting thing about is you're going to have contextual intelligence for you as a as a for your own personal choices your preferences and so on as a consumer and you're going to have contextual intelligence of what the business is trying to do and so I think to your question it's going to be very situational you can't say Experience is going to matter sometimes, but price is going to matter the other.

19:59 >> Yes, that's true in certain things, but as your own AI is learning more and more of your preferences, it's going to use that as part of it scoring. What I would say from our perspective is every touch point matters. The orchestration is the powerful thing. You got to think about a connected experience and every single moment of truth is as important as the other. And this is one of I think the misnomers that's happened in the industry. it's like oh well you know you can have kind of an automated regular experience over here as though you know and that's fine so I can check the box but if you don't do the handoff right you don't do the escalation at the right moment then you lose the complete trust >> right of of the customer that's facing you and I'll give you one other example which is very personal to me I think we have a huge oversimplification of experience because really what all of us want is we want to be a a a customer of one. All right, we want to have a scaled system.

20:58 And I use the example of my mother. She's 83 years old and she has a she she banks and she she's not very digitally savvy. The scariest thing for her would be to walk through an automated password reset. She needs that to be with a very understanding, empathetic human being. Right? So this idea that, oh well, we're just going to automate that. That's a for me and you that's probably a pretty comfortable task. I'm pretty comfortable with the password reset.

21:26 >> It makes me nervous. >> Me do it. But I I'm not asking to be escalated every time, >> right? >> And so this is the point I want to also make is that personalization is really to me the end goal. >> Mhm. >> That personalization is the end goal of the best possible customer experience. And it's all about the handoffs at the right moment with the right tools. And that's basically what we focus on every day. Let me take a stab to sort of kind of get to what I think I'm hearing, which is that so customer experience is is more than just like was that person friendly or did they have the information? It's do I get to the right place when I need to? For instance, when I'm chatting with a company and I need to do some action, let's say it's a password reset, can they get me to the right division so I can do then actually accomplish my task?

22:17 And so human or AI. >> Exactly. If that path is not available, >> that's a problem. >> You're not doing your job. >> You're not doing your job. >> And so if you get that right, basically doesn't matter whether it's me or my agent interacting with the company. >> and and your agent will your own agent will reflect that back to you, >> right? In the in in its memory, in its log, in the way that it says this is a good place to go do business with.

22:42 >> And I I just give you >> it's kind of crazy. It is crazy, but it's I think it's it's nuanced, but it's where we got to get to. >> It comes back to the the anchoring point that I always think about is that and you touched on it. Personalization is not targeting. And that's kind of like in the adtech world is like we create personas. That's not personalization. That's taking a group and treating the same thing. Personalization is understanding why you want something and giving it to you exactly the right moment and doing it in the right way. And the example I give you is and this happens a lot right in the current world and I'll just use generic service providers, broadband providers. Your broadband line is down.

23:27 you call in and the first thing they they say is I'm so and it's down and they say I'm so sorry but by the way I just want to talk to you about a new triple play package or you know a discount that's not personalization that's not empathy it's the actual opposite it's like predefined process and I think that same measure of scoring will happen with your AI and it'll be built up over time on your own preferences >> yeah so okay I've talked a lot about what happens when let's say we send our AIs to companies let's kind of flip it now and talk about when companies use Yeah. AIS and how they balance that with people.

24:01 you know, the capabilities are getting pretty impressive. now obviously companies take a long time and they're they're all trying to figure out how to put this into action and we're going to hear from from Voya in the next video that we're doing from here a little bit about how they're they're putting this into play. but I think once you get this all going, is there anything a bot can't do that a human can do? And and I guess like to put a more fine point on that question, are we heading towards a world where as bots understand the context, understand the company, have the right guard rails and permissions, can take action on your behalf? Are we getting to a world where they sort of end up especially in the world of customer experience just taking over completely from the people?

24:50 >> No, I I I don't see that as a end vision at all. I think >> okay, >> you what you're really getting at is can software I think by the way bot is a little bit of a simplistic version of this. Now we're talking about autonomous agents that maybe aren't chatting, right? They're actually up they're doing actions on the fly. They're updating, you know, workflows. I mean, there's a lot more in the enterprise than just that particular interface. but there's so many examples where you're you're going to need humans because the the root of this is what you're actually I think asking long term is can software fully emulate empathy, you know, and be cognitive to in a way that can understand all of the nuances of human beings. And I think that is not a a world I see. there's so many examples. you know, you have a bereavement in a family and you need to take some, you know, have to update a bank account.

25:45 >> Mhm. >> That is something I think that, you know, a a business needs to not outsource to software. you know, we were talking about before we come online. One of the things that we do, I'm very proud that we do at Genesis is we help save thousands of people's lives, right? We help power the the National Suicide Hotline of of the US. I don't think you want to hand that moment of truth to a piece of software.

26:13 These people are highly trained in crisis prevention. And so these are just a couple of examples and I think there are many of them. I also think that human beings have incredible creative creativity. they have incredible ability to do adaptation. so you maybe you you do that piece and then you can train train your software later. And so I I really see this idea of a of a hybrid workforce where you're upskilling your workforce will exist. I mean we it depends on our time frame but for a very very long time and it isn't just because there's inertia in the enterprise and if if they just had all the guard rails and had the system there's just so many powerful use cases so many powerful journeys where I think you're going to need the human being in that loop. Okay, so let's let's pressure test this a little bit because I've always been of the opinion that even if we get AI at human level capabilities, we're not going to see mass unemployment. And in fact, like if you would have told folks today or folks back when Chachi BT came out in November 2022 that the capabilities were going to be where they were today, they would say, "Okay, like everybody's unemployed." but the thing is like those highv value conversations that you talked about and they're important.

27:26 I agree. They need to be people. they need to be human. aren't they like a small percentage of the amount of of customer interactions with companies? and there are so many today wrote and routine conversations that take place that you can hand that over to AI and companies may want to once they do that reduce workforce. >> Well, for sure. I think there's a lot of things that are repetitive tasks that you know individuals are doing today and so you know obviously that's part of it but I think that and we think about it very differently is that's a it's a little bit binary in the thinking that that's only a small part and this is a large part it's a large part today because you don't have a great customer experience right so if you think about where we went that if that becomes much more seamless then you can really focus on this high value pieces and the high value at the end of the day are the ones that drive loyalty and it's the loyalty that customers have with companies with brands that drives revenue generating opportunities and so I think at the world very differently like the the the sort of whole narrative is sort of like you automate everything right so you don't need any people automation is just one tiny piece there's the other part of it which is how do I actually create powerful outcomes for a business? And so I think of it as the power of the and it's a bit it's become kind of an awe. It's like well automate or you you you have high value conversations that no it's actually an and automate what makes sense and continue to drive very high value outcomes for your business. And this is the big shift around customer experience we sort of touched on is that we've moved from this idea of it being a cost center like the as we mentioned the last resort to being the revenue generator because those moments of truth and done seamlessly and handed off in the right way are the things that separate companies.

29:25 Okay. So we're coming to a close here but I don't want to let you leave without asking you some SAS apocalypse questions. your software company using AI growing fast at a time where the worry is that the models the AI models will sort of ingest all software activity. so talk a little bit about where you see yourself in this you know SAS apocalypse conversation and whether you think there's any merit to the idea that eventually the AI models will simply ingest all data and sort of become >> just all of software.

30:02 >> Yeah. Let's just start with the SAS punk's narrative. I think it's the very oversimplific oversimplified view of the world and we serve the largest companies in the world right 7,500 customers multinational companies regulated industries I have to say this narrative is almost at a point where it's like they don't understand how enterprise works because if they did this idea that somehow you could just write software ingest all of the data and suddenly you have this perfect working system. it's almost ludicrous to me. I talk to CEOs every day that one, they're not about to hand over their data to their foundation models. This is their IP. Two, if you don't put all of the things we've talked about already, governance, trust, auditability, trace, traceability, manageability, resiliency, they're not going to embrace it. And so, I think I don't see it happening. I just don't we don't see it in our business. We don't even see any contraction in seats.

31:04 We see AI as a tailwind. Like every one of the sort of the narratives you hear aren't coming to pass. and it's frankly just such an oversimplification of what's happening in the real world. and maybe to even ground it, enterprises, large companies, they got many many opportunities but also a lot of challenges. they don't have the ability to have a scalable set of developers who are just going to do this, right? You have to run the software, you have to maintain the software every time there's a new cyber attack or something happens in open source that's got to be updated, that's got to be patched. It's actually kind of an odd sort of throwback is that at Genesis when we moved from on premise to cloud, we fixed all that customization, right?

31:52 The on-remise world was basically it was nice for a customer because they felt like yeah you developed the software and then you made something special for them but then they got trapped. They got trapped because either they had to have a system integrator take care of it forever or they got behind on all the innovation. And so I just think that platforms that give give you the guardrails, give you the technology, give you the ecosystem that's really important, right? It can't just be one platform to rule them all. and work on solving customer outcomes in the way we we talked about earlier are going to be the way to go. And I think you you already see it. You kind of see it in our numbers for sure and you see it in many of the other software providers.

32:30 It's just very simplified view of the world that frankly doesn't take the time to understand what businesses are really looking after. Okay, briefly I'll just take the side of the simplified view of the world and just throw it at you and then we can wrap. this the the SAS apocalypse proponents would say basically you're going to have AI that's going to have the intelligence of you know the smartest people let's say in two years >> and you just kind of have to speak the business processes and rules to them and you know they'll they'll have they'll send one agent out and they'll be the ones that are going to be you know monitoring for all the security and regulation and they'll they'll self-update.

33:08 >> No, I don't think so. isn't just talking business process. I mean this is >> this is at a layer way this is at the root of the operating model and the operating principles of companies >> dead and so it's a huge huge leap >> to suddenly think that you have a piece of software running around that sort of understands every part of your business. It's kind of interesting because it's gone from that's not feasible to then full-blown SAS apocalypse that happened I don't know about a year ago or even earlier this year and recently we've seen some results from software companies that now folks are saying SAS apocalypse is over and you'll see like bundles like IGV are just like you know close to making new highs after dropping pretty significantly early this year. I hate to go back to the oversimplification but that's exactly it. this is a winners winners market not a winners losers market and I just think that this idea that >> you know it's a simp it's an easy narrative people love winners losers they love to think about massive disruptive shifts or so you know tectonic change in the whole industry I just don't think that's how this is even remotely close right to to working I guess I'm going to say it and maybe it's just very intellectually lazy if I can say it that way to think that it's that simple >> all All right. You got to dig in. You got to understand the companies, what they want to do, and how their businesses work and help them transform.

34:32 >> Well, Tony, it was a pleasure speaking with you. Thanks for coming. Thank you. Yeah. >> All right. Thank you so much for watching. We'll be back with another video here from Genesis Experience with Voya Financial talking about how this goes into action in a practical way. So stay tuned for that. Thanks for watching and we'll see you next time here on Big Technology.