Classroom Anxiety: It’s Common, and You Can Help | Ep. 73

0:00 [Music] Hello friends welcome to the connected families podcast we are glad that you tuned in today connected families in this podcast is about supporting you to parent with confidence and learn to lead your family with Grace back to school

0:30 talk raises lots of different emotions in both parents and children even in typical years this year going back to school could look all sorts of ways depending on where in the world you are some are going back to school and going back to school building after being virtual for over a year some are still virtual and contemplating a repeat of school at home I think of some homeschoolers who have had minimal changes and might be feeling like it's

0:59 going to be more typical well no matter the way school is going to look for your family anxiety could play a part in your children's experience today we are going to talk about anxiety and back to school with Lynn Jackson co-founder of connected families and Jess sinari author of the new children's book Riley the brave makes it to school Jess equips parents and professionals to be healers for hurting children hello Lynn welcome

1:30 back to the podcast my thanks good to be here so glad you're here and hello Jess we're so happy to have you joining us today especially for those of us in the US who are thinking that you know School is right around the corner it is thanks for having me I'm glad to be here yeah we're so glad that you're here and you sent a copy of your book ahead of time and it's beautiful the artwork is

1:55 gorgeous such such good messages in there tell us what your background is that led you down this path of educating parents and teachers and others around brain science of trauma and anxiety you bet so my my background is in mental health I went to graduate school for counseling psychology and even while I was still in graduate school I started working in foster care and realized I didn't know what I needed to know to be helpful that became extra clear when I

2:28 um sort of hit the ground running and worked at a at a large agency in the Bronx in the South Bronx in New York City and again did not know what I needed to know to be helpful and that just continued my lifelong search for search for what was going to to meet the immense need that I was that I was sort of thrust into that broken systems and generational trauma and what I came to learn as you know brains that had been

2:59 wired for for defense brains that had been wired to protect the self even against or you know even in relationships that might be helpful and so the more that I learned about interpersonal neurobiology that or developmental Neuroscience the the ways that we are made to connect with each other from before we're born the more that I saw where we needed where I needed to go in my work with family and

3:30 as I put the things I was learning into practice I saw things shift so much so that I I couldn't see all the families that were on my weight list and so that really I've always liked teaching but that really cemented the idea that I'm I'm called to equip so I can I can equip the families that I see in therapy but there's more that I feel like God has given me in a way to talk about this

3:54 that really makes sense for families and parents and professionals and so that is why I founded the organization Brave brains and work all over the US and the world virtually to help people understand what is going on in our bodies and brains that make us act the way that we're acting I love that title Brave brains I me that's just a good you picked a good title there to just to inspire kids to move forward and take on

4:23 that next bravery challenge which was really helpful with one of my kiddos who had some social anxiety we just we sliced and diced that next little social bravery challenge into yes pieces and now she's just a flaming extrovert I kind of wonder if one of my boys is on that trajectory I have three boys who are now 12 10 and seven and one of them tends toward a little bit of that anxiety a little bit of the like

4:52 slow to warm up I've seen that shift some as he's grown and then there are also things that we're working on in his brain to just keep holding that even feeling nervous can be a mark of Courage you know I think sometimes there's this misconception that to be brave you have to feel Brave whatever that is but really so often courage is mixed with that twist in your gut that says I don't know if I can do this so yes Brave

5:19 brains that's my baby love it so brave brains is a website so any of our listeners can go there and get more information about Brave brains but tell us about I know that this is not your first book The Riley the brave makes it to school so in light of school coming up you know why did you write this book as I was explaining before a little bit about how I've seen putting brain science and action change

5:47 everything change relationships change Behavior change self-esteem all of these things one of the sort of models of parenting that I've seen be really helpful is something that's sort of outlined in the book that is is probably in a lot of parenting but is is defined by Dan Hughes as Pace playful accepting curious and empathic and especially for kids who've experienced some trauma in their lives that model has been extremely helpful in sort of rewiring

6:21 their brains toward safety I love the connected families framework um of having that Foundation of safety because so much of my work with kids with trauma is right there like we are working on safety and then we're working on that next layer of connection because if if as you guys well know if we don't have that we can't get to the called and capable and and really for kids to be able to receive our connection our

6:47 correction we have to have that that sense of you're for me you get me you want to know me you want to know how I work even if it's different than how you work that's okay and I'm safe here and and so many of the kids that I work with haven't experienced that and so we're working you know with the family or with the school to to see behavior for what it is which is sometimes asking for

7:13 safety in some not safe ways or asking for Connection in some in some really porcupine kind of kind of ways and so that's that's part of what I introduced in the Riley the brave series is having some language especially for young children but really there are a number of older children and adults who have gravitated toward it as well to that you can feel what it feels like to have a porcupine moment you know what it feels

7:39 like when your quills go up and your forehead scrunches you know what it feels like when you turtle and you just want to be under the covers you know or have your hoodie tied down tight and and all covered up we can feel that and I think sometimes my profession in mental health has done a disservice by pathologizing by saying everything that's wrong with how kids are behaving or how parents are reacting when really if we can start from this Foundation of

8:09 our brains and bodies are doing what they're designed to do and there are things that we can do to help that shift right we we can we can be the boss of our brain we can change what we're doing with our bodies especially if we come from a place of embracing what's already there and I just think you know as a parent you were talking about Porky Pine Behavior or Turtle Behavior I love those phrases those are words that that Riley

8:35 in the book he spals that way and he starts to act that way and and thankfully in the book he has very empathetic parents who are just so kind and gentle with him in understanding that but I know there were times when I didn't understand that porcupine behavior in my kids were the turtle behavior and so didn't react always kind and gentle and thought time for school let's go yeah you know and so that kind of brings

9:01 me to the question like understanding anxiety behavior in our kids I think is tough for parent so hard like so you know here's the question how can a parent know if their child's been traumatized by the past year of Co or schedules or you know even their their schooling at home all of the things that have happened in the last year is it trauma is it anxiety like how is a parent to weed through all of that and

9:29 you know as they're looking at the behavior of their children I think that question even gets to the overwhelm that so many of us are feeling right now what do I do what have we lost where you know where are we going so if we can start from that place of this has been really really hard yeah and you are capable and you know we're getting through it and maybe there have been some beautiful bright spots but this has been hard we

9:57 can't pretend that it's just Jessica I think we can all say that it's been hard we've had to learn new ways of being you know I feel like every six weeks there's there's some new way we have to be or some new requirement of school and change in general is a stressor so if you think about anxiety as kind of a h your body's stress response which all of us will react to a little bit differently

10:24 Sometimes some of us are more prone to the activated response where we sort of go into fight or flight where we maybe are more prickly porcupine or maybe those Tiger Claws come out and we at you know as adults maybe we're the ones who snap at our partner or sort of externalize those big feelings that we're having that happens with our kids too or maybe we process stressors by needing a turtle moment needing to kind of tuck away for a minute and think

10:54 things through or kind of get that deer in the headlight Frozen um can't move lethargic sort of feeling all of those are normal stress responses that are are designed in us to protect us our brains are this better safe than sorry mechanism and they get really protective and so as we think about this last year full of changes full of stressors both for you parents who are listening as well as for your kids it's it's

11:27 understandable that we would we would experience erence a lot more of what what I call downstairs brain moments all those porcupine tiger Turtle moments that's your downstairs brain that's your protective um sort of Primal brain you might have heard it called like your limbic system or um it even goes down into your brain stem this is really primitive stuff that is trying to protect us and it tries to protect us by doing things like going and buying all

11:54 the toilet paper we can find or right that's a squirrel moment there have been a lot of downstairs brain moments in the last year and a half I think if I could if I could ease the burden for you who are listening don't worry too much about whether it's trauma or not trauma don't worry too much about if you've done it all right that really we go back to that framework of safety at the foundation and connection next

12:23 because if we don't have safety if we don't have connection the words coming out of your mouth don't matter really really truly from a neurological perspective so I know I that's it's part of why I loved learning a little bit about your model because it really fits the neurobiology that we reason is offline so coaching even correcting none of that is making any sense unless the nervous system is sensing safety and I know that I matter I'm loved I'm valued for who I

12:56 am weird wonderful you know and whatever porcupiny porcupiny however it comes in the moment that's right Stacy I love that so much I think that's really critical because so many times parents their kids starts to get anxious and starts to ramp up a little bit and what kicks in is the parents anxiety and then they try to you know kind of put the lid on what the child is feeling because they're afraid of what's going to happen if it

13:26 continues to spiral so then they enter with with their own anxiety and they don't communicate a messages on on for you they communicate a message of I want to contain you I don't really care what you're feeling I just want to contain this Outburst then they become the foe instead of the friend which the amigdala does you know it's like yes quick is this a am I dealing with a friend or a foe you got it don't understand why you

13:50 know I'm just trying to help my child calm down and they they never want to do it so I have parents say things like oh yeah I try the deep breathing thing and my child just won't do it or I made a calm down corner and they never go to it you can sense the frustration of their voice and I get how difficult that is but if that's the energy that they approach their child with they go out of

14:10 the friend Camp into the fax camp and the child just opposes it thanks for that ly so much you know yeah I want to get really practical after the break because this is all about back to school so I know parents are like hey it's in a few weeks I need some practical tips on how to set our family up as the school year starts so let's go to break and after that we're going to get really

14:35 [Music] practical what messages do you want to send your kids in your parenting are you sending them do your kids know they are loved no matter what even during moments of discipline the discipline that connects parenting framework has transformed countless families like Allison's she says I never wanted to be an unsafe parent seeing these four messages made it clear what the foundation is safety I wish I had felt safe and I know I want my kids to feel

15:07 it I resonated with these messages and they remind me that there is hope and Grace to be found as we parent the four most important messages you can send your kids is free I encourage you to go to our show notes for the link to download this free ebook and like Allison let it begin to transform you your parenting too all right thanks everybody we're back from the break Jessica and Lynn

15:38 here Jessica and Lynn I just want to get really practical for all of the families who are really thinking like Schools starting in a few weeks and I need some tools in my tool belt I need to know some practical steps of how to set our family up for success but before we get to those really practical things I I want to ask you Jessica like what is being a turtle what is being a tiger what is being a porcupine like these

16:03 anxious things that we've kind of been weaving throughout our conversation already already what does it really look like when it comes to Monday morning schools like the bus is coming you're laying in bed like yes you need to get out the door what you know what are families facing in terms of anxiety I think the familiar thing that probably most of you listening can relate to is that it's the I don't want to get out of

16:29 bed or I don't want to go to school it might be it might look like Defiance it might look like telling you no I'm not going it might look like dragging your feet it might look like you know picking fights and sort of bickering your way through the morning it might look like disorganization that scattered thinking where you can't your kiddo who you've said three times go brush your teeth and they just can't seem to focus to brush

16:55 their teeth it can look a lot of ways and the the challenge that you talked about a little bit before the break is that for us as the adults it often looks the same we're a little frazzled we're forgetting where we set our keys or the other thing we're hitting snooze on the alarm four times cuz we're having our own turtle moment right so that's the challenge is that really for mornings to go well it requires some proactive

17:22 parenting to help handle all the big feelings because we are the big Critters we're the adults in the room room and so it really is up to us to be the more regulated ones to be the ones that have our upstairs brain engaged that have our calm connected curious ready brain on and so often that's not the case yeah so really those we have to think about it from a whole family perspective that this is what it looks like and how do

17:49 how do you want your morning to go you are a player in that and that's me hoping I have enough safety and connection with you to do a little coaching um because it's a brain thing yeah so I was coaching with a dad who had that kind of a realization about his morning once he slowed down and really was asking that Foundation question of what's going on with me he realized how much he was downloading his stress into

18:13 his kiddo in the morning because he'd yell from across come on go brush your teeth and he'd yell from across the room and so he started going to his son getting down low and he said I started to whisper with a smile on my face and it was like I totally had his attention and he began to much more successfully do what I was asking him to do I've never thought about scattered Behavior or having to tell my child three times

18:40 to brush their teeth because they're not just not doing it as anxiety but that's what you're saying it is I'm not saying it definitely is but I am saying that's a nervous system that's that's disregulated so this is part of why I think labels can be confusing sometimes because maybe it's anxiety maybe it's excitement maybe it's whatever it is it's a nervous system that's ramped up and so if my nervous system is ramped up too and I'm yelling across the house

19:10 like the dad and and getting frustrated and furrowing my brow and raising my voice or my hand we're just escalating together but if I can get low and slow or if I can put a little fun into it instead of the alarm blast you know 8s rock hits or you know your favorite praise music whatever it is like blast something Blast Your singal You Know Karaoke mix okay Jessica hold up because I play mandisa's song what is it the

19:39 morning song It's a good morning and my kids drives them crazy good morning good morning good morning it's time to rise and shine my mom sing me that one son in a memory moment just within the last month so good isn't it so is so powerful both for the from the playful side but also to keep us regulated I'm not yelling at my son if I'm singing good morning good morning good morning you know that's I'm

20:10 not yelling I can't yell and sing at the same time so you know infusing a little play into your morning which again requires us as the adults to have our upstairs brain on because that's where play lives but instead of getting frustrated when they're not getting dressed you know putting putting the the socks on your ears or getting a little silly with some of the things that we do to help wake up that upstairs brain whether it's anxiety yeah excitement

20:37 maybe there's some inattention due to other things I don't know there's lots of reasons that can happen but for your mour to go more smoothly our brain being on and ready is going to just smooth yeah it's just going to smooth things out I think another thing that can really help kids with morning stress is predictability if they know what's going to happen we went into the classroom with my most anxious child so she could meet her teacher and just get a tour

21:04 around the classroom get excited so she had a a vision a visualization of where she was heading um and that was super helpful as well that's huge that that predictability even you know one of my boys would say his favorite part of the day in kindergarten was when they went over the schedule he needed to know what was coming and then he could relax into learning he's a super curious kid loves learning but he needed to he needed

21:31 something to hang the day on and that really helped him so we can do that with our mornings as well we can do it with the afternoons you know have that 30 minute like decompression snack time and 20 minutes outside and then if we need to get some homework out we can get that going or like just having some of those routines then we start our our chores or whatever it is so that we're we're creating a rhythm that's going to work

21:57 for our kids for family so we've mentioned a couple of different specific tools that parents can do we've talked about humor we've talked about routine what other specific tools would you say we could give parents as they're thinking about moving into the fall in the new school year Jessica I like the idea of having some kind of you know whether it's a a checklist or Lynn was mentioning an app that's helpful giving kids something that they can refer to so

22:29 that it's not us nagging them did you brush your teeth did you get your clothes did you nobody likes that that's not fun for any of us so having something concrete maybe it's a velcro Choice board whatever if you're creative type great it can just be pencil and paper where you're making things visual for kids that's another anxiety stress reducer is when we can get things to be visual yeah those are good Lynn I wonder if you have any tips any resources that

23:00 you would like to throw in for parents also yeah I just I was starting to mention that we'll include the link to a tip on after school transitions that are very sensory based to try to create the scenario for the best success coming home from that difficult transition because kids often come home they've been cooped up overstressed over stimulated and then they offload that stress on their family so that's that's a helpful tool and then there's just

23:27 some other books that I have been familiar with a lot of parents there's a faith-based series called good news for little hearts and there's one on social anxiety called Buster tries to bail a couple of books for parents just parenting books that really dub tail with this is the opposite of worry by Lawrence Cohen and he's also written playful parenting yes familiar with him yes and then attachment play by Altha sulter parents have loved those books

23:54 when they get into that play that you were talking about there's practical tips in know and then there's a couple of other books that you can read with kids when my worries get too big and arie's school tools another tool that uses animals like yours and it's called connection zoo and it's aimed mostly at school AG kids started by a business executive who reflected back on her school years and how much she dealt with anxiety her story growing up I didn't

24:20 know how to talk about my anxiety or ask for help when my anxiety made it difficult to breed the only tool I had was a paper bag while it helped me calm my breathing at the moment it did nothing to teach me that it was okay to talk about what I was experiencing or how to help my journey was tougher than it needed to be so she partnered with her son Taylor Who's majored in product design and had seen his college

24:43 classmates struggling with anxiety and relationship so they made this deck of cards about animals again so it could be a good followup to your book with you know lots of detailed cards about very unusual animals about emotions how fun I love that lots of good resources Lynn we're gonna put all of these links in our show notes I have one more to to throw in there I know we talked about some that are good for younger kids the

25:10 another organization that does some great work is gozen they have some videos and and little things that twin and even teens can engage with so it's nice to to find something that that age group can engage with if they're kind of out of the picture book stage an interesting title do you ever see anything in some of those resources that you feel like parents need to come alongside and kind of so what do you think Zen is all about and how do you

25:36 think that fits with faith and do you ever have any questions about that as with some of these resources many many resources there's some caveat that I have whether it's about faith or the science behind it or the message of deficit as opposed to strength we do have to be conscious of those kinds of things with the Goen material I have found that it it really centers on what's happening in the body and and being in charge of what's happening in

26:02 our bodies and brains and that can be really empowering so I I haven't had that with that resource in particular but I feel like there's always some Nuance or some caveat that I do want us to be able to discuss together and that's part of why that that connection is just so important because we want our kids to know that they can talk to us about whatever questions they have as they're out in the world well thanks

26:25 Jessica and Lynn for all of those resources we will be sure to put those links and the names of those books in our show notes today this has been a really practical conversation which I love I feel like one of the key themes was just that no matter how our children show up in the morning if it looks like just being disgruntled or scattered or whatever the aggravating behavior is that we are seeing in the morning in the

26:56 conversation around getting ready for for school whether it's anxiety or not we want to be safe parents and we want to connect first and then we can be proactive about that and we can put together kind of a plan ahead of time for how we want our mornings to go and so all of the resources that both of you mentioned are going to really help parents for that put together a plan for that and so I thank you for that is

27:22 there any final comments that you would like to add Lynn no I'm just am excited for parents to take a look at Jess's book it was really so well written for parents particularly adoptive parents but could generalized to lots of others to give them practical tools to empower their kiddos to work through those stresses and come out the other side feeling good about their success so Jessica any final comments around anxiety and back to school well I feel

27:51 like I would be I would be missing something if I don't also mention there's a the book that came out right before this was what's inside your backpack and it really helps talk about digging into those things that we're dragging around with us sometimes anxiety is specifically about I don't know how to talk to people at school CU I've only been on Zoom or I you know had a really hard time during covid or something happened in my family that was

28:16 unexpected and that book really dives into some of the Practical resilience building strategies in in those situations as well great well thanks for being on the show today Jessica thanks Lynn for joining me as podcast host today I appreciate that you are welcome thanks for having me we want to hear from you what did you find helpful from today's episode let us know by sharing a comment while you are there please rate and review so that others can find us

28:46 more easily there are many ways that you can connect with us over the last months we have been using Clubhouse to have live conversations and fun interactions every Wednesday at 7:30 a.m. Central Time we open powerful prayers for our kids hour we would love to have you join us well to find all the information mentioned in this podcast and for more information on clubhouse or connected families go to our show notes or connected families.org see you next

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