Parkinson's Doctor: Trash These 3 Household Chemicals That 5x Risk

0:00 Parkinson's cases have more than doubled in 30 years. 87% of people who get it have absolutely no genetic explanation. None. Living within one mile of a golf course could more than double your risk. And there's a weed killer out there that the EPA's own website says one sip can kill. It's banned in over 70 countries, including China, but its use in America doubled between 2013 and 2018. I think this is not bad luck. This is not aging. It could be something we did. Today's guest has spent his entire career proving it.

0:32 Dr. Ray Dorsey is a neurologist, one of the world's leading Parkinson's researchers, a White House champion for change, and the author of The Parkinson's Plan. Amazing book, by the way. His argument is really simple and terrifying. Parkinson's is a man-made disease, and because we made it, we can stop it. If you don't know me, I'm Neil K. Shaw. I'm a John's Hopkins and NIH funded caregiving researcher and a caregiver myself. Dr. Dorsey, so glad you're here. welcome to the show.

0:58 >> Thank you very much, Neil. Everyone calls me Ray. Delighted to be with you. >> So, so Ray, yeah, let's get into it. You know, so I had some great questions here around, you know, around Parkinson's kind of what's going on and and you know, would love to hear your take, but you know, the history of it was fascinating. I thought, you know, that in 1817, Dr. Parkinson described six people with the disease and today over 10 million people have it. You've said it can't be genetics, it can't be aging, you know. So, what what do you think's going on and why is this growing? so fast. I've read it's the fastest growing neurological disorder in America.

1:30 >> Yeah. And so many of your audience know know this disease intimately because they're caring for someone with Parkinson disease. Over 1.2 million Americans have the disease or they've had a friend or family member recently diagnosed and thanks to you and your efforts to reduce that burden for people caring with neurodeenerative diseases. in the words of Michael J. box. Parkinson disease sucks and it hasn't always been around. For the vast majority of humanity, Parkinson's disease was likely rare, if not extraordinarily rare. When Dr. Parkinson described the condition in 1817, he described six people with the disease.

2:08 And he said, "I'm describing a disease that's not been classified in the medical literature. It wasn't in the medical textbooks of the time." and he goes to great lengths to describe that other features of the disease like tremor have long since been described. But this constellation of tremor, slowness of movement, stoop posture, tendency to walk forward and fall forward was something new. 200 years is estimated that 200 years later it's estimated that 6 million people had the disease. Today nearly 12 million as you suggested. So how do you go from six to 6 million the span of just 200 years? So we know what portion is genetics.

2:44 There's a great study led by the Parkinson's Foundation called PD Generation. It offers free genetic counseling and genetic testing to anyone with Parkinson disease. It's still ongoing. And in 2024, they published the results from the first 8,000 individuals who participated in this in this study. And they looked at these 8,000 individuals. Of these 8,000 individuals, largely Americans, 13% carry a genetic cause or genetic risk factor for the disease. As you said in your opening, that means 87% of Americans with Parkinson's do not carry any known genetic cause or genetic risk factor for disease.

3:20 >> The second explanation that many people say is, oh, there's just a lot more aging and there's more older people. And indeed, that's the case, but Parkinson's is far growing f far faster than other age relating diseases. For example, it's growing far far faster than Alzheimer's disease, which we know is also linked to aging. And aging doesn't cause Parkinson disease, nor does aging likely cause Alzheimer's disease. You put a mouse in the laboratory and you let it age, it will never spontaneously develop Parkinson disease or Alzheimer's. The only way that mouse develops Parkinson's or Alzheimer's is if you manipulate its genes or expose it to toxic chemicals.

4:00 Parkinson disease, dementia are not natural consequences of aging. They are unnatural consequences of aging. They are not inevitable. They're preventable. And in our book and in others, we outline a way that we can prevent people from ever suffering from this terrible disease. And I think not only is this true for Parkinson's, but we know from the Lancet Commission that 45% of Alzheimer's disease may be preventable. in Alzheimer's as you and your listeners know have a far greater genetic component to it mainly changes in APOE E4 than are present in Parkinson disease.

4:39 So Parkinson's is not a natural consequence of aging. It's largely a man-made disease and we can take actions to create a world without Parkinson disease. Just like the vast majority of human human history has been largely free of this disease, we can make it free again. >> Wow. Thank you so much. That's I think you know on the one hand when I was kind of initially preparing for the conversation I was thinking oh there's a little bit of fear you know that it could be man-made but I think the way you phrase it is awesome because it's like a very positive interpretation that by knowing that we can help people reduce their own chances of getting it and I also appreciate you sharing that about dementia. So I think that that that's really helpful. You know I think to kind of like follow up on that you know you've mentioned that Parkinson begins outside the brain not inside it.

5:23 And you know I think many people may not have heard that and it may even help them reframe in how they think about the disease. So can you walk us through that like where does it actually start and and and what do you mean by that? >> And so when Dr. Parkinson wrote his essay in 1817 he concluded by saying I look forward to future anatomists who will tell us where the origins of Parkinson's begins. And in 2003 a really smart German pathologist came up with a surprising answer. He said that Parkinson disease which we think of a brain disease does not begin in the brain. Parkinson's does not begin in the brain. He said I've looked at hundreds of brains with Parkinson's and I first find the pathology of Parkinson's a misfolded protein. It's called alphasuclean and and in Alzheimer's is beta amaloid and tal but different misfolded protein in Parkinson's. He says I first find it in the smell center something called the alactory bulb or in the nerves that give rise to a nerve called the vagus nerve. Now, some of your listeners might know that the vagus nerve connects the lower part of the brain stem all the way down to the gut and to other organs. It's a really long nerve. It's in someone like tall like me can be maybe a meter long, 3 ft long.

6:32 And he says, "I first find the pathology." He thought he was concerned that Parkinson's might be due to some kind of pathogen. He didn't think he didn't know what it was. He thought maybe a virus. We don't think it's likely a virus for most people, but a pathogen that can cut that can cross the mucosal barrier in the gut and can lead to pathology that begins perhaps in the gut and then spreads like a falling row of dominoes. Falling row of dominoes was this word. As the pathology spread for example to the to the vagus nerve and then it would spread upwards to parts of the brain that are responsible for sleep and then to parts of the brain that are responsible for movement. As the pathology spread you get new symptoms.

7:16 When you damage the vagus nerve which is responsible important for digestion you get early constipation. As it spreads to the sleep centers you get people acting out their dreams such as something called REM sleep behavior disorder. someone striking their bed partner when they're getting chased by a lion in their nightmare, for example. And this is spreads even higher up in the brain. You get to the part of the brain that's classically affected in Parkinson's called the substantionigra, which gives you the tremor, the slowness of movement, the difficulties with walking balance that we classically associate with Parkinson disease. So, Hiker Brock in 2003 says that Parkinson's he thought most of it would begin in the gut. In 2019, another really smart scientist who does a lot of work with imaging, his name is Dr.

8:00 Pere Boromer, he's in the Denmark and he said there's two forms of Parkinson disease. There's a form that begins in the gut that Dr. Haiko Brock described in 2003. We'll call that a gut or body first form of the disease. And there's a form that begins in the nose. Remember that Dr. Brock thought that there was he said the pathology begin the smell center, but he didn't make much out of it. Dr. Borcommer and I I agree think that most of Parkinson disease begins in the nose and you can as the pathology spreads from the nose it can spread to part of the brain called the amydala which is important in emotions and then back to the brain called the substantionigra it's a very easy way to get from the nose back to the part of the brain classically affected in Parkinson's disease these individuals might get an early loss of smell they might get some anxiety or depression because of damage to the amydala and then they might get early Parkinsonian features like the tremor and slowness of movement. Two forms of the disease. One beginning in the gut called body or gut first form of the disease. One beginning in the nose called nose or brain first form of the disease. If the pathology begins in the gut or begins in the nose, it begs the question, well, what's causing the pathology to begin in the gut or in the nose? And so I emailed Dr. Boromer and I said, fantastic work. Read all his work.

9:20 marked it all up and I said, "How about chemicals that we ingest?" Think about pesticides that might be in wellwater that people drink if they grew up on a farm might predispose to Parkinson's beginning in the gut versus chemicals that you inhale. Think people living near a golf course might be inhaling lots of pesticides with the pathology beginning in the nose. So I think our hypothesis is that chemicals that people eat, swallow, ingest would lead to a gut or body first form of Parkinson's beginning with constipation troubles with sleep disturbances and then the motor features of disease, movement features and chemicals that we inhale like the Marines, people working with dry cleaning chemicals, people's living near farms inhaling chemicals leading to a nose or first brain first form of the disease. Wow. Wow. That that is really fascinating and I think thanks for explaining it in such great detail. I think you know before kind of like jumping to the next question. I guess my one followup on that is you know you mentioned kind of like the progression is begins with things like let's say if it's starting in the gut with constipation etc and then progresses. So for anyone out there that might have heard that and thought, "Oh, could I be exposed?" Like, are there early signs before it gets into the brain and kind of becomes less reversible? Like what, you know, are there early signs? And at that point, if the exposure is shifted, then is the outcome, you know, potentially modifiable?

10:50 >> Yeah. So, unfortunately, we don't have great answers, but I think the answer is yes. so early features of the disease are constipation if it begins in the gut and perhaps loss of smell. Smell tends to be complicated that can precede it and we actually know this for Alzheimer's disease too. One of the earliest features of Alzheimer's disease is loss of smell. Turns out one of the major risk factors for Alzheimer's disease is air pollution. when Dr. Parkinson described the condition in 1800 London, he was descri describing it among the London fog. air quality in 1800 London is equivalent to what's in Delhi, India. today it's equivalent to what people are experiencing with wildfires. you know I was in Colorado and wildfires there were leading to high levels of air pollution. Not even quite to what it was in 1800 London but just to give you a sense when the sky turns orange or gray that's not normal. And when that air pollution can be inhaled and and when you're inhaling air pollution you're inhaling little pieces of dirt and soot suspended in the air that you can actually see. And then hitchhiking on the pieces of dirt and soot are heavy metals and other toxic chemicals that could be leading to misfolding of proteins. some implicated in Alzheimer's disease, others in Parkinson's. So what can you do if you've been exposed to these chemicals? I don't think it's a fataccomplete. We don't know for certain, but I don't think it's a fatacmple that you've been exposed to these chemicals when you're young that you're you are going to develop the disease in the future. I'll give you an example. So, we know that people who smoke cigarettes, if you smoke cigarettes in your 20s, you're at increased risk for getting lung cancer or heart disease years later. But if you stop smoking, your risk of heart disease within a year of smoking your last cigarette is decreased. Your risk of lung cancer with after you stop smoking, within 10 years of smoking your last cigarette is hacked. If that's true for smoking and lung cancer and heart disease, why wouldn't the same thing be true for people exposed to toxic pesticides when they were a child, drinking well water, exposed to dry cleaning chemicals, high levels of air pollution?

12:59 Why if we stop being exposed to halt our exposure to this and exercise and eat a nutritious diet, why can't that modify the the course of the disease or decrease the likelihood of developing or postpone the development? We don't have great studies to answer if that's indeed possible. I certainly think it is and we can draw analogies from other diseases, whether that's type two diabetes or high blood pressure or lung cancer, that when you stop being exposed to the risk factors that are driving the disease in the first place, that can't do anything but help you out.

13:33 >> No, thank thanks for, you know, sharing that. I think that that's really helpful and that that creates, you know, kind of ray of ray of hope in people that, you know, might be worried about their their risk. you know, I think then jumping into kind of like the pesticides, you know, angle. You know, I think you've mentioned that, you know, there's a weed killer called parakquat that the EPA's own website, you know, says is like killer, you know, even one sip can kill you and it's banned in over 70 countries. Surprised I was surprised to learn it's even banned in China, you know, and and in America, you know, its usage has doubled, I think, between 2013 and 2018, I guess. What's going on? And actually, is this the same one recently?

14:10 you know, I was reading a headline that Michigan has started to take some steps, you know, to ban, I guess. Yeah. What's going on? How, you know, how is this allowed? What's it doing to people's brains? And, yeah, kind of what's going on. >> So, so what what is paraquat? if you're not a farmer, you're probably unexpo unaware of this chemical. It's a weed killer that was created in the 1960s. It's considered one of the most toxic weed killers ever developed. It kills the weeds that Roundup doesn't. It's so toxic that it's been used to commit homicide and suicide. And as you indicate, the EPA's own website says one sip can kill. in 2011, my outstanding colleague, Dr. Caroline Tanner, showed that farmers who work with paraquat have a 150% increased risk of developing the disease. Another outstanding colleague, Dr. Bata Ritz and her colleague, Dr. Kimberly Paul at UCLA showed in 2023 I believe that people who simply live or work near where parakaquot is sprayed. They're not even the farmers doing the spraying to just live you know near a farm that's using paraquot have a doubling of their risk of of Parkinson disease and my colleague Dr. Debbie Corish at the University of Rochester she showed in the 1990s that laboratory animals exposed to parakquad developed the clinical and pathological features of the disease. they move around less and you look at their brain, they look like they have Parkinson disease or they have features of it. so why are we still using it? It's sprayed on corn, cotton, soybeans, and vineyards throughout the United States. Over 70 countries, including China, has banned it. England won't let it be used in England, but exports it to the United States, or at least it did so until recently.

15:52 in the EPA's failed to protect farmers from this and failed to protect other people who live or work near where it's sprayed. The good news is that in March its principal manufacturer, not its only manufacturer, its principal manufacturer said that it was getting out of the parquat business and was going to stop producing the chemical this past June. And Vermont, as you alluded to, just a couple months ago, became the first state in the union to ban parakaquat. So if you're a farmer in parquad or you live near a farm, which many people do, you're going to stop being exposed to a weed killer that's associated with 150% increased risk of Parkinson's. If we get these chemicals out of our environment, if we remove the most toxic pesticides that are linked to Parkinson's, if we remove dry cleaning chemicals, dry cleaning chemicals, think about that, dry cleaning chemicals that are linked to Parkinson disease, if we stop using them, if we work on continuing to reduce air pollution in New York City, which is far cleaner air today in 2026 than it did in 2006, for example. If we continue to clean our air, we create a world where Parkinson is increasingly rare instead of increasingly common. We create a world where Alzheimer's disease is increasingly rare instead of increasing common. We create a world where ALS, Luceric's disease is increasingly rare instead of increasingly common. These diseases, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, ALS, dementia with Louis bodies, these are all diseases that have been described in the last 200 years. Doctors have described seizures, migraines, and strokes for centuries, if not millennia. These classic neurodeenerative diseases are all newly described and I think the or they all have very modest genetic components to them. and I think the principal causes of these diseases are chemicals in our food, water and air. We address these chemicals in our food, water and air. We create a world where these diseases are increasingly rare instead of increasingly common.

17:47 >> Wow. Thank thank you for such a detailed explanation. And I think, you know, if you could kind of go a little bit into because I, you know, the paraquad example I think is very interesting to think about, but like you said, most people will likely not be, you know, farming themselves, but they may be exposed to the food they eat. But I thought your comment about the dry cleaning chemicals was also fascinating and I remember you've talked about that quite significantly because that is something many people either are directly exposed to through their clothing or in big cities they may be even living nearby. But could you elaborate on that if like you know speaking of the chemical usage I guess maybe the two main vectors that people might be exposed to would be the dry cleaning chemicals and the potential golf course chemicals. you know I guess yeah would you elaborate on those?

18:32 >> Yes. Give me one second here. >> Sure. >> Here we I'm obsessed with this chemical. It's called triclorethylene. >> Okay. called and it's got a dry cleaning chemical called perchlorane. >> So what is a tricchlorane? It's abbreviated tce. So a little chemistry lesson. Most of your listeners know that water H2O is made up of three atoms, two hydrogens's and one oxygen. Tricchlorine is made up of a whopping six atoms. Two carbons in black, one hydrogen in white and three chlorine atoms in blue. Hence it's name triclorene.

19:10 is dry clean cousin has one additional chlorine atom. so it's called either tetra or per chlorine. Per just means four. and turns out these chemicals again done by research by Dr. Caroline Tanner and Dr. Sam Goldman show that people who are exposed to these chemicals have about a 500% increased risk of developing the disease. 500%. In the laboratory, they also reproduce the features of u Parkinson's especially tricloroethylene. And they're widely used in dry cleaning.

19:41 Triclorethene was used in dry cleaning until about the 1950s I believe until it was supplanted by perch chlorine. Most dry cleaners in the United States except in California which has banned this chemical used perch chlorine. we reason we use dry clean. Do you know why we have dry cleaners? Do you know what the advantage of dry cleaners are? Do you know why we use dry clean? >> No, >> we use dry clean. I didn't know this stuff either. I'm a neurologist. is so that our clothes don't shrink because water makes cotton shrink. And so we develop chemicals like triclorene perchlorine. So our clothes don't shrink. The price for our clothes not shrinking should not be an increased risk for Parkinson disease. The price for our clothes not shrinking should not be Parkinson's. The price for green golf courses should not be Parkinson disease. the price for a weed killer should not be Parkinson's disease. these chemicals triclorene not only used in and previously used in dry cleaning but it was used to degrease metals. So if you worked in printing or painting, if you were an inbalmer, if you worked in Silicon Valley, if you were worked in a mechanic, if you worked on jet incraft engines, if you served in the military, if you served at Camp Leune, you were quite possibly been exposed to triclorene. It's estimated in 1970, two pounds of this chemical were produced per American. Still, I think the most recent data I saw is 250 million pounds of triclorene are used in the United States. Estimate 10 million Americans worked with this chemical in 1970. Was even used to decaffeinate coffee until the FDA banned that use I think in 1977.

21:23 And so this chemical widely used, people exposed to it at work, people are exposed to it in dry cleaners. people even when they bring their dry cleaning home if you take off the bag you're off gasing that chemical into your home and then this chemical is often times been inappropriately disposed of. So it's estimated that up to 30% of groundwater in the United States is contaminated with this chemical. So you could be drinking it or the chemical kind of like radon. I think many of your listeners know radon can evaporate from soil and enter people's homes often basement and increase the risk for lung cancer. Triricline can evaporate from soil or contaminated water and in people's homes and cause cancer. This is known to be a carcinogen according to the EPA known to cause cancer according to the environmental protection agency and it likely can increase your risk of Parkinson disease. In our book, we detailed, you know, countless individuals who were exposed to triricclorine. Everything from attorneys working in a office tower in Rochester, New York to Marines who served at Camp Leune to people who worked in the family dry cleaning business who were all likely exposed to the chemical or perchlorine and then developed Parkinson disease decades later.

22:40 >> Wow. Wow. That's I mean that's very scary, you know. Thanks for sharing. And I think some of those things hadn't even thought about, you know, that this thing was used to decaffeinate coffee. I mean, it's like the, you know, kind of inadvertent exposure that people got. That's that's very scary. >> And it's important to recognize these exposures are happening without people's knowledge. >> Yeah. and without their consent. You live near a golf course. You have no expectation that you're being exposed to chemicals that are designed to damage the nervous system of insects and that you're getting involuntary exposure to these chemicals simply by the virtue of living near a golf course. Especially if you live down wind of the of a golf course, you could be breathing in these chemicals. No one asked you whether you wanted to be exposed to these chemicals.

23:23 No one asked you for your consent. and you're paying a really really high price if you have the disease or you're caring for someone with these diseases. These diseases have an enormous human cost and they have an enormous economic cost. It's estimated that the economic burden of Parkinson's is about $50 billion a year to society. Half of it to Medicare and increased healthcare expenses and half to individuals in terms of caregiver costs, loss wages, caregiving out-ofpocket expenses. For Alzheimer's disease, I think the estimates are around $300 billion, if not more. Why are we paying such a high price as humans and as a society for diseases that are preventable? If we took action to eliminate the underlying risk factors for these diseases, whether they're certain pesticides, whether it's dry cleaning chemicals or whether it's outdoor air pollution, we can all live longer, healthier lives free of these neurogenerative diseases and stop spending one in five dollars in the United States on sick care and stop burdening 35 million Americans who are caring for people with adults with disabling conditions with Parkinson's and Alzheimer's being the mo the most common of this. These are preventable plagues that are affecting just about every American household and quite frankly a lot of households around the world. And we can take action to prevent people from suffering from it. Just like we took action, you know, 50 years ago, 70 years ago to prevent polio, we've taken action to prevent HIV. We've taken action to prevent drinking and driving.

24:58 We can do the same thing for Parkinson's. We can do the same thing for Alzheimer's. we can do the same thing for ALS. >> Yeah, I totally agree. And I think I think the way you framed it is also very interesting because I remember I was hearing something that you said a while back where you had a very interesting statistic. I might botch the number, but you were saying something like Parkinson cost in America is like 50 billion a year, but the company making that chemical is making like 500 million a year. And you're like, well, if you can't regulate it, what if you just pay him 500 million bucks to just do nothing? I mean, I I thought that was kind of interesting because I feel like sometimes the government's like behind the curve on regulating business and it's such like a free market kind of approach of companies can do whatever, but if you just literally give them a payment and just say, "Hey, I'll pay you to keep your factory shut because it's saving me 25 billion a year of Medicare costs and it only costs you 500 million.

25:49 Just take the money and stop doing it." You know, I I thought that was like really like the magnitude is insane, but I guess could you elaborate a little bit on that if like how much are these companies making from these chemicals and is it really like a small bit of their profit is resulting in this massive societal economic burden? Not to mention the human burden, but you know, just thinking some of these companies are only money oriented, you know, I think yeah, you know, could you explain that and and is it really that that drastic?

26:14 >> Yeah. So I think reporting from the Guardian reported that estimate that global sales not profits global sales of parquat were $400 million. I told you a study led by the Michael J. Fox Foundation estimated that the economic burden to Americans alone is $50 billion from Parkinson's disease. If we prevented just 1%, if parapot were just responsible for 1% of Parkinson's disease, that would be an economic burden to the US taxpayers and people with the disease of $500 million more than the global sales, not profits of paracquat. An economist wrote me and said, "Ray, what you should do is just tax it." a great idea, but in fact, the United States, we subsidize it.

26:59 so the United States taxpayers, you me and that your listeners have pay about $15 billion for agricultural subsidies. The two crops that are subsidized with the most money in the United States are corn and soybeans. The two crops that are sprayed them with the most parakquat in the United States are corn and soybeans. >> Wow. Wow. That's that I think that that's something for everyone to think about, you know, that that's really profound and sad, but you know, thanks thanks for sharing. I think the numbers are really mind-numbing. I think the there was also I think you know going to the other chemicals you know I think you you discussed about the the dry clean chemical of TCE and I thought that one of the interesting things that you'd said was it's sitting at these super fun sites in Silicon Valley. I actually am curious to learn more about that because we run this nationwide caregiving platform and I've seen a lot of the people that we help in California in like that San Francisco broader area are older adults living with Parkinson and and surprisingly these are wealthy older adults. So I I've been wondering like is there something going on and and you'd mentioned that you know especially I think in this chemical it's whether it's a super fun sites in Silicon Valley which I believe might be the old semiconductor factories or I think you'd even mentioned that females who work in dry cleaning have a 1500% higher chance of Parkinson you know I guess yeah what's going on and I guess are some of these like residuals where even if you don't work in the thing it's just in in the land or yeah How how are people exposed to it?

28:30 >> Yeah. So, TC was used was widely used to kill clean silicon wafers and Silicon Valley obviously had a lot of silicon wafers to be cleaned and I think there are 11 super fun sites on along a 7mi stretch of the 101 freeway in Silicon Valley. and these are at former semiconductor plants like Intel and Fairchild semiconductors. These are super fun sites designated by the EPA because they're among the most toxic sites in the country designated for cleanup. And so people who simply live or work near where these chemicals have been inappropriately disposed of or in some cases honestly leaked from underground storage tanks, they're at risk for drinking contaminated water and they're at risk for something called vapor intrusion.

29:19 When these chemicals evaporate from underlying contaminated water and soil, enter people's homes, schools, and workplaces without their knowledge and without their consent. So, you could be living nearest a one of these contaminated sites. Jane Horton is a woman featured in our first book who lived right near one of these contaminated sites that's under I think the under the campus of Google presently. She had her indoor air tested, found to have elevated levels of tce in her indoor air. This chemical is known to cause cancer and is associated with an increased risk of Parkinson's.

29:55 500% increased risk of Parkinson's. She had a simple like equivalent of a radon remediation system put into her home, sucks the air from underneath her foundation, vents it above her roof, and she's now she says I have the cleanest air in Mountain View, California. and so she can breathe air in her home without being worried about developing cancer or Parkinson disease. We're a wealthy nation. We've made mistakes. We realize that the dangers of these chemicals, some cases, we've discovered them after they've been produced. We can take action to prevent people from being exposed to these chemicals. We've done this before in the 1970s. You know, 95% of American level 95% of American children had unsafe levels of lead in their blood. children were being admitted to the hospital with encphylopathy. There were large numbers of children with intellectual disabilities because of lead. We got live lead out of gasoline, le out of paint. And today lead levels in American children are 95% lower than when I was a kid in the 1970s. It's estimated that because of this reduction in the lead levels in the blood that leads to higher IQs of three to four points per child because of this. If we want to reduce intellectual disabilities, if we want to reduce autism, if we want to reduce ALS, if we want to reduce Parkinson disease, if we want to create a world where people aren't suffering with Alzheimer's disease or spending their lives caring for someone with Alzheimer's disease, we know how to do it. We've done it before. We've done it with lead. We've done it with polio.

31:25 We've done it with HIV. We've done it with drinking and driving. We can do the same thing by doing it with certain pesticides, with dry cleaning and decreasing chemicals, and with outdoor air pollution. we can create a world where these diseases are largely not around just like they haven't been for 99.9% of human history. >> Wow. Amen. That that's I totally agree with that and I think it's it's remarkable, you know, kind of the impact that could be made. I think on the golf courses side, I think just to kind of drill down on that because that's another salient example, you know, for a lot of people and you know, I think you've mentioned that living within a mile more than doubles your risk. you know, is it it's like both the impact of if you live nearby and you catch the downstream downwind chemicals, is it also being on the course and just people who are very frequently golfing and and what is that you know that that you know I think some of your stats were the golf course uses five times more pesticide per acre than a farm and I guess maybe just because in order to keep it very well maintained but like if you're in this situation let's say maybe forget even living near if you're just an active golfer and you're out there a bunch, you know, like are you exposed just from being on the course? what do people need to know? And whether or not you're golfing or living near, what what can you do that's within your control?

32:46 >> So, in the most viewed article in the entire, JAMAMA network, the Journal of American Medical Association, last year was work done by my colleague Dr. Brittney Krasinowski, and her colleague Dr. Rudolfph Sevika, a neurologist at the Mayo Clinic. Dr. Krishnowski is a geography. She's actually just sitting outside my door right now. And she and Dr. Sabika and her colleagues, they looked at the risk of Parkinson's among people who live near a golf course in Rochester, Minnesota. And they found that people who where the Mayo Clinic is located.

33:19 And they found that individuals who live within a mile of a golf course in Rochester, Minnesota had a 126% increased risk of developing Parkinson disease compared to people who live more than six miles away. Now what does living near a golf course have to do with Parkinson disease? As you alluded to, golf courses are huge consumers of pesticides. According to at least one study, golf courses use five times as much pesticides per acre as do farms. And some of the golf some of the pesticides used on golf courses, especially in the past and even today, are unsafe or are known to damage the nervous system of insects, for example.

34:03 two of them, one's called chlorophos, a pesticide widely sprayed on golf courses, widely sprayed on apple orchards, for example, was actually banned by the EPA in 2021 because it's estimated to have cost American children 16 million IQ points. unfortunately that ban was overturned because its manufacturer successfully sued to overturn that ban allowing it depending on the state to again be sprayed on apple orchards and to be sprayed on golf courses. Another pesticide weed killer widely sprayed on golf courses is 24D.

34:38 Few of your listeners might recall that 24D was a component of Agent Orange sprayed over North Vietnam during the Vietnam War. We know that Agent Orange is linked to Parkinson disease. We're spraying a weed killer that was used in warfare on golf greens to make sure that golf courses are green. Rachel Carson 1962 wrote Silent Spring about not about and against pesticides but against the indiscriminate use of pesticides. I think almost all of us can agree that we shouldn't be using weed killers from warfare on golf courses especially when we know that those weak killers damage dopamine producing nerve cells that are lost in Parkinson disease in the lab and we we know that agent orange is linked to Parkinson disease and a wide range of other diseases including many cancers. so it's possible people could be exposed to it by Dr. Britney Chrisowski and Dr. Sevika looked at people who live near it. These weren't people spraying it on the courses. These again just people like secondhand smoke that they could either have been exposed to the chemical these pesticides in the water that they were drinking which Dr. Chrisowski detailed in the paper. I get really concerned they could also be breathing it in or be breathing it in because of their proximity to it. There's one small case report that showed that people who live downwind of a golf course appear to be at higher risk of Parkinson disease than those who didn't. So that's just looking at people who live or live near a golf course. It turns out there are three studies that link green space workers including for example landscapers on golf courses to Parkinson's disease and one study that links green space workers to an increased risk of ALS or Lou Garri's disease. There are also studies in Italy, Spain, and Scotland all linking soccer playing, you know, we're talking about the World Cup soccer playing to an increased risk of ALS. I worry about obviously head trauma from hitting the ball, but I also worry about people playing on sports fields where these pesticides are sprayed. They could be they're either inhaling it where some of these chemicals are fat loving or fat so they can be absorbed through the skin.

36:50 I think we need to look and say, why are we spraying nerve toxins on our golf courses? Why are we spraying chemicals that are known to damage nervous systems on kids playgrounds and schools? Why are we finding arsenic in baseball fields where little leaguers are playing? Why are we finding lead in the soil of residents? If we get rid of these chemicals, and it's really easy to test for these chemicals in your soil, on the sports field, we can create a world where people aren't suffering with these terrible conditions. Anyone who's seen someone with ALS, anyone who's seen any someone with Parkinson's, almost all of us have encountered a friend or family member with Alzheimer's disease recognize these are terrible conditions.

37:37 conditions that we would not want for ourselves, conditions we would not want for our families, conditions quite frankly people say I wouldn't even wish upon my enemies with these diseases are by and large preventable. The genetic contributions to Parkinson disease are less than 15%. The genetic the portion of people with ALS that's due to primarily genetic causes is less than 15%. Monogenetic single genetic causes of Alzheimer's disease are extraordinarily low, less than 5%. The principal causes of these disease do not lie inside of us. They're not in our DNA. They're not in our genes. They're outside of us in the air we breathe, the water we drink, and the food we eat.

38:21 >> Wow. Yeah, that that is I think that's that's a a really interesting reframe and I think it really hopefully people out there listening this inspires people to kind of start advocating, you know, advocating to kind of watch what chemicals we're using and, you know, potentially hold some of these companies accountable. you know, I think on that topic of external environment, you know, I think another thing that you have noted is like the air pollution side. you know that that you know air pollution may cost every human about 3 years of life. you know toxic metals are you know coming into our noses and you know into our brains you know through the suit like where where do you find in in America at least where is the air pollution you know kind of notable and and what are the mechanisms of air pollution to kind of neurological disorders? yeah. so air pollution is more disabling than high blood pressure.

39:19 More disabling than high blood pressure. And think you go to the do your kid sprains his ankle and he's going get his blood pressure checked. but no one we don't even measure air pollutants in people with Alzheimer's disease even though we know it's linked to the disease. We don't even measure it in people with Parkinson's even though we know it's linked to the disease. We don't measure it in people with asthma even though we know it's linked to the disease.

39:42 I just think we've been asleep on on air pollution and I think it's playing a huge role in brain diseases. I think the nose is your front door to your brain and when you breathe in a chemical, you're bypassing some normal protective measures that we have. Normally, if you ingest a chemical, we have a gut membranes prevent it. We have a liver to detoxify chemicals that come in through the gut. And we have the bloodb brain barrier which restricts access to the brain from toxic chemicals, many toxic chemicals. I think the nose is an exploitation to it and it bypasses the gut, it bypasses the liver and it bypasses the bloodb brain barrier. It turns out that some of those little pieces of dirt and soot that we talked about before, they're called particulate matter. Some are 1/30th the width of my hair. They're 2.5 microns.

40:33 They're two 2 1 of a millimeter in size, some even smaller. And they can penetrate the nerve responsible for smell that hangs up in our upper nasal passages. They can just go through the nerve itself, pierce it, and they can bring in toxic metals like lead, like iron, like platinum, lead from lead, lead, lead from gasoline, plat iron from brakes, platinum from catalytic converters. We know that the brains of individuals with Parkinson disease and Alzheimer's disease have increased chem concentrations of metals in them. And we really haven't been able to explain why.

41:07 I get concerned, not known for sure, that this is in part due to toxic metals being inhaled into the brain. We know that one of the first places you find both the pathology of Parkinson's disease and the pathology of Alzheimer's disease is in the smell center of the alactory bulb. We know one of the earliest features of disease are loss of smell for both of that which precedes both the tremor and slowness and movement in Parkinson's and the memory loss in Alzheimer's disease. and there have been a wide number of studies that have linked air pollution to Alzheimer's disease and an increasing number of studies linking air pollution especially higher levels of air pollution to Parkinson disease.

41:51 I I don't think it's terribly surprising that countries in the world that have high levels of air pollution have high levels of Alzheimer's disease and high levels of Parkinson disease. Study after study almost weekly now linking studies of air pollution to Alzheimer's disease. This is all preventable. Air quality in 1960 in California was so bad that people wore masks not because of concerns about COVID or infections. They wore masks because the air was so toxic to breathe. The governor of California said in the 1960s we should ban all unnecessary driving because air pollution was so bad. That governor was responsible for creating some of the first air pollution boards in that state. That governor was Ronald Reagan.

42:39 And Ronald Reagan, as some people know, became the first president ever to be diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease. I don't think it's a coincidence that Ronald Reagan, who spent a large portion of his adult life in Los Angeles, breathing in heavily polluted air, would be at increased risk for developing Alzheimer's disease. If we address air pollution, if we reduce air pollution as we have, you know, there are more cars driving more miles by more people in Los Angeles today and the air quality is vastly better, double, five times, 10 times better than it was in the 1960s and 70s. And the economy is booming in Los Angeles.

43:23 Having clean air is not a trade-off for economic development. Having clean air, clean food, and clean water is a prerequisite for a healthy, thriving society. We've seen that in Los Angeles. We've seen that in different parts of the world. We see China having the fastest improving fastest improving air quality in the world in China because they realize that air pollution is not good for a healthy society. If we wake up, if we see what's actually in front of us. If we see what is actually in front of us, we can create a world where 7 million Americans aren't suffering with Alzheimer's disease, where tens of millions of Americans aren't caring for someone with dementia, and where one in three 85 year olds are not resigned to developing Alzheimer's disease. That is an unnatural consequence of a aging. It is not a natural consequence of aging. We can create a world where 85year-olds are not battling Parkinson disease and Alzheimer's disease, but 85 year olds are thriving and serving as wonderful grandparents and contributors to society.

44:27 >> Thanks. I mean, that that's absolutely fascinating. And and by the way, thanks for sharing the history lesson. I had no idea about Ronald Reagan and and you know, kind of what he did to improve air quality in LA and also about his, you know, later battle with Alzheimer's. I think that that's really interesting. You know, I think in in some of the things that you had mentioned, I think on camp loun, I think these are just like really interesting like vectors of like illness that you don't think about, you know, that you know, could you tell us a little about that that that Marines who were 20 years old, you know, when they were exposed to the drinking water in Camp Lleune and the TCE, I mean, these people are serving our country and only as little as I think a 20some month of exposure and 30 years later, they have a 70% higher rate of Parkinson like what what is going on you know through that is it the same kind of mechanism as as discussed earlier >> yeah so what's cample so camp lleun is a large marine base in Wilmington North Carolina if you're a young marine the two main places you get trained are at camp pendleton in California or camp lune on the east coast and from 1953 to 1987 the drinking water at camp lune was contaminated with a triclorene Among the sources of contamination was a dry cleaning site just off the base.

45:47 Marine officers need to have their uniforms dry clean. Not surprising they went to a dry cleaner. These chemicals were inappropriately disposed of and contaminated the drinking water from 53 to 1987. The marine base is like you should think like it's like Ohio State University. It's a huge college campus. It's got a Walmart. It's got an elementary school. It's got, you know, grocery stores and everything like that. estimated that a million people, Marines, service members, their spouses and civilians were exposed from 1953 to 1987. And the Marine Corps knew about this contamination for the latter years and did nothing about it. so the Marine Corps knowingly exposed the best and brightest among us, the most dedicated servants in our society to a cancer-causing chemical that's linked to Parkinson disease.

46:35 Dr. Caroline Tanner, Dr. Sam Goldman again at UC San Francisco looked at Marines who served at Camp Leune I think in the 1970s. Their average age was 20. Some were teenagers. These are young healthy. 90 I think 95% of them were men. And then they looked at these individuals 40 years later and after 34 years on average they had a 70% increased risk of developing Parkinson's compared to Marines who served at Camp Pendleton.

47:07 importantly, their exposure happened at a young age. those of you who have served our country, first of all, thank you very much. second, they know that you only serve at a base for a short period of time. The average age of exposure, average duration of exposure was 25 months. I think the minimum exposure in the study was just three months. yet 34 years later, they had a 70% increased risk of disease. The health that we enjoy today is not a reflection of our current environment.

47:36 The health we enjoy enjoy today is largely a reflection of the environment that we've had in the past. This is especially true for these neurogenerative diseases like Parkinson's and Alzheimer's where the seeds of these diseases are often planted at a young age. In this case, in people in their 20s or younger. I've now met four individuals who were either a child born or conceived at Camp Lleune and then later developed the disease. If you prevent your children and your grandchildren from getting exposed to outdoor air pollution, from getting exposed to certain pesticides, from getting exposed to certain dry cleaning chemicals, you can set them up to enjoy a life that is largely free of Parkinson's and Alzheimer's.

48:20 What a beautiful gift to give to your children and grandchildren. And if you're among the six million Americans with Alzheimer's disease, or you're among the 1.2 million Americans with Parkinson's, and you stop being exposed to these chemicals, you might be able to favorably slow the rate of progression of these diseases. There are studies, for example, that show that people with Parkinson's who are exposed to pesticides have a faster rate of progression. Why don't we have people who with Parkinson's to stop being exposed to these pesticides? The same is true for air pollution. People with Parkinson's who are exposed to higher levels of air pollution after their diagnosis are more likely to be hospitalized for their Parkinson disease. I think we're missing a tremendous opportunity to slow the rate of dementia to slow the rate of Parkinson disease by halting or reducing exposure to the toxicans that are contributing to the disease in the first place.

49:14 >> Yeah, thank you for sharing. And by the way, while you were talking, I was thinking, you know, I live in North Carolina. I'm about an hour and a half from Camp Llejun. And in recent years, actually, in the last year, I'm in my 40s. I've had two friends die of rare cancers that were suddenly onset and progressed very fast, both in that area. and these were these were men in their 40s, otherwise very healthy, and you know, it was devastating to their wife and kids. and you know, been kind of like thinking that what's going on. And I think that in that area I think there is a challenge with kind of not just they were born and grew up there but also what might be in the water and the chemical exposures in the water. So I think that's really that's really scary.

49:58 >> Diseases have causes. Diseases have causes. Essential tenant of western medicine is that diseases have causes. You don't get cancer because your aunt sinned. You get cancer because you were exposed to a cancer-causing chemical or you're exposed to radiation or you carry a rare genetic mutation. You get a cold because you were exposed to some virus that's linked to a cold. The vast majority of people with these exposures do not develop the disease. We're all exposed to cold viruses where you're sitting right now, where I'm sitting right now, there is undoubtedly adoiruses hanging out in our air. And most of us aren't exposed to disease. Only 15% of smokers get lung cancer. only 10% of people exposed to asbesus get metheloma. What what determines why some people get the disease and why some don't? You know, there's factors around exposures, interactions, including possibly genetic and some modifiers. But our job as physicians is to identify the causes of diseases. If you identify the cause of disease, one, you can prevent the disease, two, you can slow it, and three, you can cure it. People want a cure for Alzheimer's disease. People want a cure for Parkinson disease. Your listeners want cures for Parkinson's and Alzheimer's. The prerequisite to curing a disease, the prerequisite to curing a disease is to know its cause. I can't think of a single disease that we can cure with a pill where we don't first know its cause. When I was in medical school, we didn't really have a good sense of what was causing hepatitis C, which is a virus that affects the liver.

51:30 It was so it was initially called non-heep a non-heep B because we weren't even sure if it was a virus and all we knew it wasn't hepatitis A and it wasn't hepatitis B. We figured out that was hepatitis C, a virus and you can now take a pill to cure people from hepatitis C. Hepatitis C used to be a leading cause of liver transplant in the United States. A bloody mess. You have to harvest an organ from a dying individual, transplant that or organ into somebody who had a was in poor health and treating with imunosuppressive treatments, a very expensive and bloody mess. Now we cure it when we know its cause. It used to be in the 1960s bleeding ulcers, stomach ulcers was a top 10 leading cause of death United States. We thought that bleeding ulcers was due to stress. We were wrong. We figured out two Australian scientists figured out that it was due to a bacteria. People thought the bacteria couldn't possibly live in the acidic environment of the stomach. They were ridiculed and largely marginalized. They were right. Their critics were wrong.

52:34 now almost no one dies of a bleeding ulcer because bleeding ulcers are curable with antibiotics and some other medications. You take a cocktail. You probably never heard last person that you heard that dying of a bleeding ulcer, which as I said was the top 10 leading cause of death. If we find the causes of the disease, and I think for Parkinson's, for Alzheimer's, it's due to ALS or chemicals in our food, water, and air, we can prevent them, we can slow them, and we're far better positioned to cure these diseases because when you know the cause of disease, you can screen lots and lots of chemicals against those causes in the laboratory and accelerate the time to getting highly effective treatment for these diseases.

53:16 >> Thank you. Yeah, I think that's I I love the history lesson too and I think that's that's a great it actually sparks optimism, you know, that we were able to beat these other things by getting to the root cause and I think that that this something that a lot of our listeners and you know people in the caregiving community are are very interested in. I I actually I think that leads me to kind of the next thing that you know you said that you know Michael J. Fox thinks he got Parkinson's from a chemical exposure. and you know there were other stories like Brian Grant, the NBA player was 3 years old when his father was stationed at Camp Llejun and you know he played in the NBA once a full season with Parkinson's without even knowing it. You know I guess Yeah. Yeah. Can you elaborate on those stories and like you know what happened to Michael J. Fox that that what type of chemical exposure may have led to it and what does it mean that the disease can be planted in your body but then manifest outwardly decades later?

54:12 yes. So, Michael G. Fox said in an interview with Jane Paulie that he thought he got Parkinson's from exposure to some kind of, chemical. Brian Grant, I was reading his, autobiography, and toward the end, he mentioned that he was a three-year-old boy, that his father was a Marine stationed at Camp Loom when he was three, and so he was on the base. Lily my jaw dropped. Lily almost dropped the book because that could explain why Brian Grant is 3 years old. 33 years later at age 36 he's diagnosed with Parkinson disease and his father dies of esophageal cancer linked to try which as I told you before is known to cause cancer.

54:56 Diseases have causes. We figure out what the causes of disease are we. can help prevent it, slow it, treat it, inform family members of their risk or lack thereof of the disease and create a world without these chemicals and without these diseases. This is all within our control. We've done this before. We've done it with lead. We've done it with CFCs. We've done it with DDT. We've done it time and time again. It's just another time we need to answer the bell because the bell is ringing really loudly. Brain diseases are the world's leading source of disability.

55:31 More so than cancer, more disabling than heart disease, more disabling than infectious diseases, including COVID. People, your listeners know this. There are among the 35 million people caring for someone with a ne ner degenerative condition. These these diseases are unnatural. When I see someone with Parkinson disease, I get upset because I think the suffering that they have is immense. And I think that suffering is largely unnecessary and that suffering is largely preventable. The sooner we awaken to this fact, the sooner we create a world where people aren't dying from Parkinson's, aren't dying from Alzheimer's disease, aren't suffering with these diseases, aren't spending their time, resources, and lives caring for or suffering with preventable conditions.

56:15 >> Yeah. No, no, thank you for sharing. And I think I think you're right also on the car. I've personally just been a caregiver of family members through cancer and through neurological disorders and the caregiving burden is immensely different mainly because some of those things like cancer are like typically episodic and it's a massive amount of stress in a time period of a year or two but these neur neurogenerative disorders are lifetime of caregiving that often last for people 5 years 10 years and beyond so it is a massive massive societal challenge you know so I think you know thanks for sharing you know the perspective I think you know in in some of these things you know that you mentioned that you know you've had patients who delayed you know needing medication for years through exercise alone you know you've had patients and I assume these are Parkinson patients you know that came off medication entirely and have managed their disease through lifestyle so I think maybe unlike the kind of the ray of hope side and the positive things you know these things sound almost impossible but what are those patients doing differently and if anyone out there is listening that's caring for a loved one with Parkinson's like what can they realistically aim for like what are other you know other ways to improve health >> I I think I don't know but I think we've been underestimating how modifiable these diseases are whether that's Parkinson's or whether that's Alzheimer's disease for example we know that there are people who are in physically better shape today with Parkinson's disease than they were before they had Parkinson's disease our book opens with the story Dr. Sarah Winningham, a graduate of the US Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs, who served her country in around the world, including in Afghanistan, was a physician, trained through the Air Force, and was likely exposed to triclorene at many of the military bases where she served, including one where she was responsible for overseeing the degasing and cleaning of jet engines that were flown in Iraq. back and she developed Parkinson disease and after initial depression and significant decline in her health got herself started exercising and ran an iron man triathlon after she had Parkinson disease. If you can run an iron man triathlon with Parkinson disease, it strongly suggest that the disease is modifiable. and I think we're missing opportunities to do that. you and your listeners know about the benefits of exercise which can be quite beneficial in people with Parkinson's and likely beneficial for people with Alzheimer's disease. I think we're missing an opportunity to stop being exposed to these chemicals. You know, if you're someone's diagnosed with high blood pressure, the doctor's going to tell them to reduce their salt intake. If someone's diagnosed with diabetes, type two diabetes, they're going to be told to improve their diet and to exercise. Why aren't we doing the same thing for people with Parkinson's and Alzheimer's? Why aren't we telling people with Parkinson's and Alzheimer's to really stop being exposed to outdoor air pollution? Why can't we be telling people to get air purifiers in their homes, in their bedrooms, in their living rooms, roll up their windows if they're driving through heavily traffked areas, recirculate the air in your home? There are dozens of ways to reduce exposure to outdoor air pollution that I think we're missing.

59:32 And then you know getting really good care and that doesn't mean just care from a neurologist or a physician with expertise in Parkinson's or Alzheimer's but that means speech therapy, occupational therapy, exercise therapy, a nutritionist, psychologist and others because we know that these diseases don't just affect memory or movement. These diseases are whole brain diseases. In many cases these diseases are extrabrain diseases. They begin outside of the brain and as the pathology spreads like those fall of rowing do the fall of rowing fall falling row of dominoes that Dr. Brock described new symptoms appear and the spread as the pathology spreads throughout the brain more and more symptoms appear and they require more and more expertise but fundamentally we're not going to address the pandemic of Parkinson's disease we're not going to address the pandemic of Alzheimer's disease until we go upstream identify the root causes and create a world without these diseases.

60:34 No, I think I I totally agree and I think thanks thanks for sharing that that that especially the story, you know, of kind of being able to run an iron man. I think that that creates hope and something that even people living with these diseases can kind of, you know, think about on a positive side and maybe lifestyle modifications that people could make. I think many people listening right now may be caring for a parent or a spouse. I think most of our listeners are caregivers caring for a parent or spouse either with dementia, Parkinson, other neurological disorders. You know, I think what do you think many families that you talk to don't quite understand about what's happening inside their loved ones brain and especially people who are new to the diagnosis which like a lot of people like reach out to us for help. you know, what do you think would be most helpful for them to know within the first few months so that they can, you know, both process it better and also better plan for caring for their loved ones?

61:29 >> I think there's just no way to sugarcoat it. These diseases, Michael J. Fox says that Parkinson disease sucks and Alzheimer's disease sucks even more. they're terrible diseases and bottom line that, you know, I think these diseases are far more modifiable than we let on and I think there are ways to modify the course in a favorable way. We talked about exercise. We talked about we're getting reducing exposure to these chemicals. We talked about getting really good care. But fundamentally, these diseases are unnatural.

61:57 These are unnatural consequences of aging. It has never been the case in human history that one in three 85 year olds get Alzheimer's disease. That is not normal. John Adams at age 90 was writing letters to Thomas Jefferson at age 83. Both were sharp and clear. Neither of them had Alzheimer's disease. Neither of them had Parkinson's disease. These are products of our environment. The sooner we recognize that these diseases are preventable, the Lancet Commission says that 45% of Alzheimer's disease is potentially preventable. If 45% of Alzheimer's is potentially preventable, what does it mean for diseases like Parkinson's and ALS, which are far less heritable than Alzheimer's disease?

62:40 Out of every research dollar spent on Parkinson disease, only two cents, only two pennies is spent on trying to prevent the disease. There will be second and third homes sold for more money today in New York City than we as a society spend on preventing Parkinson's disease. If we are not willing to spend money on preventing Parkinson's disease to find out what these root environmental causes of it, then a 100 more Americans are going to die with Parkinson's disease tomorrow.

63:08 250 more Americans will be diagnosed with the disease tomorrow. We have a chance to change the course of Parkinson's disease, change the course of Alzheimer's disease, quite frankly, change the course of society for just about every American of all political persuasions, of all ages, of all income levels by addressing the root causes. We are looking for a call to action to change the course of these diseases. Spending one in of every five dollars of the wealthiest nation in the history of the world on sick care is a great indication that things are sick. And the reason that we are sick is because chemicals in our food, water, and air are polluting the air we breathe, the food we eat, and the water we drink. The sooner we clean these up, the sooner we create a world where Parkinson disease is falling, where park Alzheimer's disease is waning, not waxing, and the sooner where diseases like ALS are increasingly rare. These are not normal consequences of aging. It's never been the case in human history that it's been like this.

64:12 The sooner we recognize that, the sooner we create a world with these out this disease and the sooner we stop suff the suffering, the tears, the agony, the frustration that millions, tens of millions of Americans are experiencing on a daily basis and hundreds of millions of people around the world are experiencing. This is something that we can address, something that we are called to do so, and something that our generation should bring about the fall of.

64:37 I I I really I I love how you phrased it and and and frankly it's just got a random question, but I I feel like have you ever thought about like running for for political office? Like I don't hear people saying any of these things, you know, and I like I'm not super politically attuned, but like I listen to what people are saying and advocacy like this, especially because I work in caregiving every day. I've never heard anyone, you know, kind of advocate that in an open platform that both it's modifiable and how to do it. But yeah, have you, you know, half joking, but have you considered that or have you seen people that you see out there that are aspiring policy makers that are kind of advocating this platform? Because I think it's affecting a lot of people. I think caregiving overall is not something, you know, that's talked about enough and I've often told, you know, candidates and people I meet that, hey, we need to talk about caregiving. But I think this entire thing that you've laid out about the modifiability of, you know, because it's like then it's the person's health and the caregivers's burden can both be reduced. Yeah. Have have you thought about it or have you seen people embrace this idea?

65:37 >> So people want to help support our efforts to get the word out and our research, they can email us at infopd.org info@pdpl.org. Our book is called the the Parkinson's plan. and it's available on Amazon or your library or wherever you'd like to get your books. there are people making their voices heard. I'll give you two examples. Congressman Gus Berakis, Republican from Florida, brother died of Parkinson's. father has Parkinson's.

66:08 leads the congressional caucus on Parkinson's was the chief house sponsor of the national plan to end Parkinson's acts which passed the US house 407 to9 unanimously passed the senate signed into law by president Biden and just had its advisory council put into place he's been a champion of Parkinson's disease for 20 plus years on the Democratic side as senator Corey Booker father had died from Parkinson's disease has been working tirelessly to reduce exposure to pesticides and tighten pesticide regulations out there. In the end, this is a political issue and people have a political power. people with Parkinson disease and their spouse account for 1% of the US electorate.

66:56 People with Alzheimer's disease and their spouses account for probably 5% of the electorate. If people make their voices heard, politicians will react. Politicians by their nature largely don't lead, but they react. They stay in political power by reacting to the needs of their constituents. Why this isn't a political issue is unclear to me. This is a political issue. We are spending $300 billion as a society on Alzheimer's disease. We're spending another $50 billion on Parkinson's disease. 35 million Americans are in caregiving roles caring for adults, not for their children, but for adults with debilitating diseases that get worse over time. and their ability to care for these individuals decreases over time because they're getting older themselves and caregiving adds to stress and and and worsens health just by the mere act of caregiving. the sooner we recognize this is a political issue, the sooner that people with Parkinson's disease, the Alzheimer's community, the ALS community, the autism community realize that there are common roots to these neurological diseases that the indiscriminate use of nerve damaging chemicals might have consequences not just for insects but for humans too. the sooner we create a world without these diseases. There is nothing natural about one in 318 year olds having autism.

68:18 There is nothing natural about one in three 85 year olds having Alzheimer's disease. There is nothing natural about Parkinson's being among the world's fastest growing brain diseases. These are all unnatural. the sooner we recognize their unnatural their unnatural character, the sooner we create a world without them, the sooner we create a world where we can all live long healthy lives with our brains and independence intact. Yeah, thank you for sharing and also thank you for kind of u mentioning the caregiving burden on that because there have been a lot of research studies out around if you're caregiving for a spouse with dementia your own mortality risk goes up by somewhere between I think 35 to 65%. some studies have suggested that if you're a dementia caregiver your own risk of dementia goes up somewhere between 300 to 500%. I mean it's like there's a second and third order like your point about dominoes you know there's a lot of societal impact from this. So, you know, I appreciate you sharing. I think, you know, in in in, you know, just a couple more questions and then I'd love to kind of lightning round, but maybe maybe can we a couple minutes cuz I >> Oh, yeah. Okay. Okay. How about this?

69:24 >> My phone's going off here. I'm getting I'm getting >> This is fascinating. I could This could be like a six-hour podcast, but I I want to be mindful of your time. I think your answers are amazing. okay. How about lightning round? So, rapid fire. what's one thing everyone should do this week to lower their Parkinson's risk? >> If they drink water from a well, 40 million Americans get their water from a well, they should get a carbon filter from their well. They can for for their faucet at home. They can get at the grocery store or consider a reverse osmosis system or test your well. But get a carbon filter for your water if you're among the 40 million Americans who get their water from a well.

70:00 >> Awesome. Okay. What is in most people's home right now that they should throw out today? >> I don't think people should be poisoning themselves. I think people got a lot of pesticides that are known to damage their nervous system. If you have Alzheimer's disease, if you have Parkinson's, you want to protect your remaining nerve cells. Get those nerve toxicans, especially certain pesticides, out of your home. >> is coffee actually protective for your brain? >> It appears that caffeine is. U most studies have suggested that caffeine might protect nerve cells especially from damage in Parkinson disease. So if you like your caffeinated coffee, enjoy it. Recognize that caffeine does have adverse health consequences including headaches and anxiety.

70:45 >> What is one thing you wish every neurologist in America understood that they currently do not? >> diseases have causes and our jobs to find those causes. When we find those causes, when we do that for stroke, we do that for headache, we do that for people with confusion, we do that for back pain. When you find out the causes, you can prevent, slow, and treat the diseases most effectively. When someone's diagnosed with Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, and ALS, our job as neurologists is to find out what causes the disease so we can counsel the patient, improve their prognosis, and prevent this disease from affecting others.

71:19 And then last one. What do you tell a family who just got a Parkinson's diagnosis and feels like there's no hope? >> Well, there there's hope. I mean, we told you the course is far more modified than we let on. You know, we there are people who are in physically better shape the American Ninja Warrior competed in multiple things with Parkinson's. There are lots and lots of people in better shape with Parkinson's today than they were before.

71:47 But my job is to create a world without Parkinson disease. I'm not only the I sometimes say I'm the neurologist to your kids and your grandkids. My job is and my role and what I want to do is create a world where your children and grandchildren never have to bear and taste the awful taste of Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, and ALS. >> Thank you so much. I mean, I think this was this was absolutely awesome. I think people are going to find this so helpful, so informative. I think a lot of our caregiving audience, they're going to, I think, walk away with like very practical advice. So, you know, Dr.

72:21 Ray Dorsey, thank you so much. This was a great treat. I think everybody check out the book, The Parkinson's Plan. I think it's great. There's some great insights and I think you've you've totally, even though I've heard you on interviews and I've read your stuff, I think you've really changed still the way I look at the world around and even what some of the people we're helping are going through. Never going to think about a golf course the same way again.

72:43 and I I think just like there's a, you know, the idea that Parkinson's, even dementia, like neurological disorders are preventable. I think that is something that every family needs to hear because that might create hope of what they can do to reduce their own risk or to help their loved one that's going through it. yeah, feel free to tell everyone, you know, where where can they grab the book and where how can they follow along your work?

73:04 >> Yeah, so the book is called The Parkinson's Plan, available at wherever bookstores you like, Amazon, and in in libraries. if people want to email us and share their stories, we're always looking for it. We're writing another book right now on preventable arguing that not just Parkinson's but ALS, dementia, fluid bodies, Alzheimer's disease are to a great extent preventable. We love to hear stories from listeners at info at pdpl.org infobd.org.

73:35 And my name is Ray Dorsy and I thank you very Neil for all the great work that you're doing. Listen, caregiving is brutal. and people like you are working to make the lives of caregivers better. And they're trying to make the lives of the people that they're caring for better. And what we're trying to do is create a world where people don't have to spend their lives caregiving and where people don't have to spend their lives suffering from these terrible preventable conditions.

74:00 >> Amen. Amen to that. You know, and I think, you know, so to everyone listening, you know, there you have it. I think if this one hit home for you, do one thing. You know, as Ry mentioned, go to pdpl.org. You know, think about and be intentional about what is in your water, what's in your air. I think just taking a few minutes to think about these issues could change things for you and your loved one. You know, we'll be sharing clips from this conversation across all the platforms, you know, over the next several weeks like YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, etc. so, keep an eye out and if this makes if anything here makes you think of someone you love or a friend, you know, send it their way. If you're not subscribed yet, you know, this is your sign. Please subscribe and follow along. You know, Dr. Ray Dorsey, thank you so much.

74:42 Truly, I think this was an eye-opening conversation. And to everyone out there listening, thank you for spending time with us. we'll see you in the next one. Let's create a world without without neurological disease. >> Thank you, Neil. Thank you.